# Is Josh Frydenberg coming for Angus Taylor?

An episode of [7am](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1461999702), 16 Oct 2026, 16 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/62723a1f-3e96-4fc4-882c-b25e0181da4d/f57417dd-3885-4db6-9d19-b4e50043aeea/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=70f29d90-2a63-48aa-bf8f-b25e0181da70

In politics, there’s nothing quite like a book launch to remind everyone you’re here if they need. Josh Frydenberg is back, with a new book, some pointed criticism of his party, and perhaps an eye on a return to Canberra. Meanwhile, Angus Taylor is steering the Liberals firmly to the right, although even that hasn’t spared him a heckling from the conservative faithful. For Anthony Albanese, it’s a welcome distraction from what has been a torrid couple of weeks for the government. His own MPs are getting restless, and the prime minister's own confidence isn’t proving contagious. Today, columnist Paul Bongiorno on the Liberals’ competing visions, Labor’s midterm blues, and a prime minister waiting for the wind to change. If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: Press gallery veteran Paul Bongiorno Photo: AAP Image/Sarah Wilson See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. In politics,
[0:09] Speaker 1: there's nothing quite like a book launch to remind everyone
[0:11] Speaker 1: you're here if they need. Josh Frydenberg is back with
[0:14] Speaker 1: a new book, some pointed criticism of his own party,
[0:17] Speaker 1: and perhaps an eye on a return to Canberra. Meanwhile,
[0:21] Speaker 1: Angus Taylor is steering the Liberals firmly to the right,
[0:24] Speaker 1: although even that hasn't spared him a heckling from the
[0:26] Speaker 1: conservative faithful. For Anthony Albanese, it's a welcome distraction from
[0:31] Speaker 1: what has been a torrid couple of weeks for the government.
[0:33] Speaker 1: His own MPs are getting restless, and the Prime Minister's
[0:36] Speaker 1: confidence isn't proving contagious. Today, columnist Paul Bongiorno on the Liberals'
[0:42] Speaker 1: competing visions, Labor's midterm blues, and a Prime Minister waiting
[0:47] Speaker 1: for the wind to change. It's Saturday, October 17th. Paul,
[1:00] Speaker 1: wonderful to see you as always. This week, Josh Frydenberg
[1:04] Speaker 1: bounced back onto the scene with a shiny new book.
[1:07] Speaker 1: It seems like the former treasurer who was kicked out
[1:09] Speaker 1: of his blue ribbon seat of Kooyong might be harbouring
[1:12] Speaker 1: dreams of a return to the bright lights of Canberra.
[1:15] Speaker 1: Do you smell a comeback brewing or is that something else?
[1:19] Speaker 2: Well, look, I must say this week, Josh Frydenberg was
[1:23] Speaker 2: everywhere launching his book, but there's no doubt he was
[1:27] Speaker 2: also relaunching his career as a senior liberal. In fact,
[1:32] Speaker 2: in several interviews, he's admitted as much.
[1:35] Speaker 3: I will make a decision about my political future.
[1:38] Speaker 2: Next year.
[1:39] Speaker 3: But I do worry about the direction of our country.
[1:42] Speaker 2: People close to him say there's no doubt about it.
[1:45] Speaker 2: He's laying the groundwork now. There's big discussion, what, Kooyong
[1:49] Speaker 2: again or somewhere else? But do you know the colourful
[1:52] Speaker 2: Barnaby Joyce, who we all love to admire? I think
[1:55] Speaker 2: he got it right when he said....
[1:59] Speaker 4: Popping up like an illegal smoke shop very bad for
[2:02] Speaker 4: angus taylor's health.
[2:04] Speaker 2: And then he said let's cut the bs mate we
[2:06] Speaker 2: can see through all of this and i think i
[2:09] Speaker 2: think joyce has summed it up pretty well there.
[2:11] Speaker 1: Actual retail politics from barnaby there um i know josh
[2:15] Speaker 1: has got a book to sell but are you sensing
[2:17] Speaker 1: an appetite for his return outside of his usual backers Well, look,
[2:22] Speaker 1: it's interesting.
[2:23] Speaker 2: Obviously, I haven't spoken to everybody in the current parliamentary
[2:26] Speaker 2: Liberal Party room, but there's no doubt that it skews conservative.
[2:31] Speaker 2: I mean, John Howard started the attack on moderates almost
[2:35] Speaker 2: three decades ago now, and it's been fairly successful. And
[2:39] Speaker 2: other journalists who've been talking also to Liberals say, look,
[2:42] Speaker 2: In a way, the Conservatives are very wary. They're backing Taylor,
[2:47] Speaker 2: who is backed, of course, by Tony Abbott, the Liberal president,
[2:51] Speaker 2: and Peter Credlin, the after-dark commentator. Whereas the moderates, well,
[2:56] Speaker 2: they really hunger for some more ballast on their side
[3:00] Speaker 2: of the party room, and they would welcome him back.
[3:03] Speaker 2: But One did say to me that while Tim Wilson
[3:05] Speaker 2: was able to take back his seat from Attil in Melbourne,
[3:09] Speaker 2: Kuyong could be a very hard ask and Monique Ryan,
[3:13] Speaker 2: the independent who won the seat from Frydenberg, and let's
[3:18] Speaker 2: not forget Frydenberg wasn't just anybody at that stage. He
[3:21] Speaker 2: was the treasurer of Australia. Monique Ryan is of the
[3:25] Speaker 2: view that her community rejected Frydenberg then and nothing much
[3:29] Speaker 2: has changed since.
[3:30] Speaker 5: I'm not sure what has changed since that time that
[3:32] Speaker 5: Mr Frydenberg now thinks that the community will welcome him
[3:35] Speaker 5: back with open arms.
[3:36] Speaker 2: Clearly he has ongoing ambitions.
[3:39] Speaker 5: He says to be prime minister.
[3:41] Speaker 1: And what did you make of the response from Angus
[3:43] Speaker 1: Taylor and the rest of the Liberal Party? Because Friday
[3:46] Speaker 1: was quite critical of the current approach, wasn't he, from
[3:50] Speaker 1: Taylor and his colleagues?
[3:51] Speaker 2: Frydenberg was indeed very critical of Taylor and his colleagues.
[3:57] Speaker 3: Things have been happening over a long period of time.
[3:59] Speaker 3: The party hasn't adapted in the way that it should
[4:03] Speaker 3: have adapted.
[4:03] Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? How should it have adapted? Well,
[4:05] Speaker 2: the demographics, I suppose. And you have to see these
[4:08] Speaker 2: comments also in the context of last weekend's CPAC meeting
[4:13] Speaker 2: in Brisbane. Some people describe it as a radical right organisation.
[4:17] Speaker 2: It's certainly radically conservative. And there... Angus Taylor was the
[4:22] Speaker 2: first federal Liberal Party leader to actually turn up to
[4:25] Speaker 2: the conference. He was, would you believe it, the warm-up
[4:28] Speaker 2: act for Pauline Hanson. I mean, embarrassing, if not demeaning. There,
[4:34] Speaker 2: he attacked the legacy of the Morrison-Freidenberg government for spending
[4:39] Speaker 2: too much during COVID-19. for embracing net zero, the sorts
[4:45] Speaker 2: of things that moderate liberals and certainly the sorts of
[4:48] Speaker 2: things that voters in the now-teal seats support. We got
[4:53] Speaker 2: power prices down by 10% on my watch as energy minister,
[4:57] Speaker 2: but we made the mistake of signing up to net zero.
[5:01] Speaker 2: And by the way, I should say this, the government,
[5:04] Speaker 2: the Prime Minister's office, very thoughtfully put out a sheet
[5:07] Speaker 2: of quotes from Frydenberg from his many interviews and from
[5:12] Speaker 2: the book, especially the last chapter of the book, where Frydenberg...
[5:15] Speaker 2: How helpful. Yeah, very helpful. Frydenberg laid out, as it were,
[5:19] Speaker 2: a political agenda, something like Tony Abbott did in his
[5:23] Speaker 2: book Battle Lines all those years ago. But he said,
[5:26] Speaker 2: and this is very telling in the book, there is
[5:29] Speaker 2: no goat track back to government through the regional and
[5:32] Speaker 2: outer suburban seats alone.
[5:34] Speaker 3: You need to win these metropolitan seats and you need
[5:37] Speaker 3: to fashion the policies and the ideas and make the arguments.
[5:41] Speaker 3: to win the support of those constituents.
[5:43] Speaker 2: Diametrically opposed to the prescription from Abbott and Credlin, especially
[5:49] Speaker 2: that the way to win back government is to become
[5:53] Speaker 2: more conservative, reject the push to renewables. So there you
[5:57] Speaker 2: have a stark contrast of what the Liberal Party should
[6:02] Speaker 2: do to regain relevance and power.
[6:07] Speaker 1: One thing that wasn't reported on much from that CPAC conference, Paul,
[6:12] Speaker 1: was the fact that Angus Taylor was actually heckled at
[6:14] Speaker 1: that event. I want to unleash the future of our
[6:17] Speaker 1: great nation, and that's.
[6:18] Speaker 2: What we need.
[6:19] Speaker 1: What does that say about the audience he's trying to reach?
[6:22] Speaker 2: Well, that's a very good question, as a matter of fact.
[6:25] Speaker 2: I mean, Pauline Hanson, apparently the biggest cheer she got
[6:28] Speaker 2: there was when she attacked Angus Taylor.
[6:31] Speaker 4: It is so good to be back in Queensland. Thank you.
[6:35] Speaker 4: Before an adoring crowd, Pauline Hanson took aim at the
[6:39] Speaker 4: Prime Minister. Australians despise Albanese and his corrupt Labor government.
[6:44] Speaker 2: And Angus Taylor too.
[6:46] Speaker 4: And quite frankly, they don't want some smarmy management consultant
[6:53] Speaker 4: taking his place either.
[6:55] Speaker 2: I think that if the idea is, look, we're in
[6:58] Speaker 2: dire straits, so let's win back our base first. Has
[7:01] Speaker 2: he made a misjudgment about his base? I mean, is
[7:04] Speaker 2: he trying to win back, in fact, Pauline Hanson's base?
[7:07] Speaker 2: Because a lot of the commentators and pollsters now say, well,
[7:11] Speaker 2: the people who are rusted on for Hanson, you know,
[7:16] Speaker 2: could be at least 6% of the overall voting population.
[7:21] Speaker 2: And the advice from Frydenberg and others would be, don't
[7:24] Speaker 2: try and win them back, try to win back, you know,
[7:26] Speaker 2: the other 94% of voters out there.
[7:32] Speaker 1: Coming up, can the PM quell the discotent within his
[7:36] Speaker 1: own ranks? Paul Frydenberg's surprised appearance was a bit of
[7:47] Speaker 1: a gift to Anthony Albanese, who's had a torrid couple
[7:51] Speaker 1: of weeks, suffering a severe case of midterm blues. Despite that,
[7:55] Speaker 1: you're right that Albanese has been telling worried Labor MPs
[7:58] Speaker 1: behind closed doors that he'll be kicking with the wind
[8:01] Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter. But with the economy struggling and
[8:04] Speaker 1: voters increasingly frustrated, what's the confidence actually based on? And
[8:10] Speaker 1: is it a chance that he will be kicking with
[8:12] Speaker 1: the wind, but he might call wharfie time too early?
[8:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, if we're going to use that analogy, that's a
[8:17] Speaker 2: very good point. The other point is, of course, that
[8:20] Speaker 2: even the Prime Minister of Australia and even Anthony Albanese
[8:24] Speaker 2: doesn't have the magical powers to direct the wind. Although
[8:27] Speaker 2: you'd have to say after the last two elections that
[8:30] Speaker 2: he has had the good luck of winning the toss.
[8:33] Speaker 2: and the wind stayed in the direction that he chose.
[8:37] Speaker 2: But look, having said that, in a broader sense, I
[8:39] Speaker 2: spoke to one of Albanese's closest confidants in Cabinet, and
[8:43] Speaker 2: he points out a few things. The midterm blues is
[8:46] Speaker 2: not a new phenomenon or disease. It does strike governments
[8:50] Speaker 2: of all persuasions. And that's because you're far enough away
[8:54] Speaker 2: from the last election and not quite close enough to
[8:57] Speaker 2: the next one So voters are looking for answers that
[9:00] Speaker 2: haven't materialised. And also, even the relief that they get
[9:05] Speaker 2: or that is being offered isn't enough to meet their needs.
[9:09] Speaker 2: And the government of the day, the incumbent, wears the
[9:13] Speaker 2: blame for all of that. Now, it's the view of Albanese,
[9:16] Speaker 2: of course, he's been in Parliament 30 years and has
[9:19] Speaker 2: experienced these things from opposition and government, that the closer
[9:23] Speaker 2: you get to the election, the voters then say, OK,
[9:26] Speaker 2: so we've been grumpy and we're not happy with the
[9:29] Speaker 2: answers that the incumbent government's given. What else is on offer?
[9:33] Speaker 2: And it is there that Albanese and Labor believes that
[9:37] Speaker 2: they will be in a stronger position. Will the Liberals
[9:41] Speaker 2: have got their act together by then? Will some of
[9:44] Speaker 2: the prescriptions that Pauline Hanson has put out there, which
[9:47] Speaker 2: have been universally rejected by economists and, for example, migration experts,
[9:54] Speaker 2: will they begin to unravel? And Labor believes there's a
[9:58] Speaker 2: bigger chance of all that happening... when we get the
[10:01] Speaker 2: sort of election that is not unusual in Australia, where
[10:04] Speaker 2: voters stick with the devil they know.
[10:07] Speaker 1: Isn't the risk there, Paul? The government has been incredibly
[10:09] Speaker 1: disciplined in terms of not leaking or backgrounding journalists But
[10:14] Speaker 1: there is talk that government MPs are becoming increasingly despondent
[10:18] Speaker 1: with the state of things and with Albo in particular.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Is that something you're hearing around the traps?
[10:25] Speaker 2: Let me say two things. First of all, we haven't
[10:27] Speaker 2: even now seen the sort of damaging leaks that you
[10:31] Speaker 2: get out of cabinet that presage a leadership challenge. That
[10:36] Speaker 2: is not happening. Are people critical of Albanese and even
[10:41] Speaker 2: of the Treasurer? Yes, but I would say it's born
[10:44] Speaker 2: more of frustration. Why aren't we getting through? Why aren't
[10:48] Speaker 2: we doing better in the polls? Although, having said that,
[10:52] Speaker 2: and this Albanese can point to this, the polls this
[10:57] Speaker 2: week even, especially an MRP poll, which is a giant
[11:00] Speaker 2: poll of 10,000 Australians taken over three months, show that Albanese...
[11:06] Speaker 2: the Albanese government would still be returned as a majority
[11:10] Speaker 2: after preferences. And I think that this is the sort
[11:14] Speaker 2: of reassurance also that older heads in the Labor Party
[11:18] Speaker 2: are trying to say to the nervous Nellies on the
[11:21] Speaker 2: back bench. But having said that, look... If you've got
[11:24] Speaker 2: 94 people in the House of Reps holding seats that
[11:28] Speaker 2: Labor has almost never or never held, you've got to say, look,
[11:34] Speaker 2: a lot of them are going to be onesers, one-termers.
[11:37] Speaker 2: So while they might be fearful of losing their seats,
[11:41] Speaker 2: the indications are at this stage that Labor will hold
[11:45] Speaker 2: on to enough seats to still be a majority government.
[11:49] Speaker 1: This week we saw the government struggle to pass its
[11:51] Speaker 1: bill to cut the health insurance rebate for older Australians.
[11:54] Speaker 1: The Greens blocked it in Parliament. Is that a sign
[11:57] Speaker 1: of things to come under the leadership of David Shoebridge, Paul?
[12:00] Speaker 2: Well, look, yes, it is in the broad, but a
[12:03] Speaker 2: couple of points to be made. The tactics here are
[12:06] Speaker 2: quite interesting. So the Greens didn't block it per se.
[12:11] Speaker 2: What the Greens did, they joined with the opposition and
[12:15] Speaker 2: the crossbench to throw the bill out. They said, we're
[12:18] Speaker 2: not even going to discuss this bill.
[12:20] Speaker 5: You know, it particularly frustrates us, I can say, when
[12:23] Speaker 5: the government refuses to do things like tax export gas
[12:27] Speaker 5: and instead is looking for its budget savings from pensioners.
[12:30] Speaker 2: So by doing that, and I think this is the
[12:33] Speaker 2: smarts of Shoebridge, he actually put a lot more focus
[12:37] Speaker 2: on the Greens. Now, if, for example, the bill went
[12:40] Speaker 2: forward and they negotiated what he's demanding now that pensioners
[12:45] Speaker 2: be exempt from from the cut to the rebate to them, well,
[12:49] Speaker 2: it would have gone through and people said, oh, well,
[12:50] Speaker 2: the Greens supported the government or won something. Now, it's
[12:55] Speaker 2: right at the edge. The Greens are still saying, oh,
[12:58] Speaker 2: you haven't come, you've put the bill in, but unless
[13:01] Speaker 2: you exempt pensioners, we will not support it. We are
[13:04] Speaker 2: very aware of that. And the role of the Greens
[13:08] Speaker 2: has become headline news. So yes, we will see a
[13:12] Speaker 2: smart and, I would say, aggressive attempt by the Greens
[13:16] Speaker 2: to establish their presence, and that may be to appeal
[13:22] Speaker 2: to Labor voters that, look at us, we can do
[13:25] Speaker 2: things that the left want to see done. And by that,
[13:29] Speaker 2: I mean a bit like Mamdani in New York. The
[13:32] Speaker 2: poor need to be looked after better, and look what
[13:35] Speaker 2: we're doing. We're looking after the poor.
[13:37] Speaker 1: The Greens made headlines on Thursday for all sorts of
[13:40] Speaker 1: different reasons, reasons that they wouldn't welcome.
[13:43] Speaker 5: The Greens Senator Jordan Steelejohn is facing allegations he made
[13:46] Speaker 5: inappropriate comments to multiple women and has now taken leave
[13:50] Speaker 5: from the Greens party room.
[13:52] Speaker 1: There were reports that concerns around his behaviour were well
[13:55] Speaker 1: known within the party and that women had been warned
[13:58] Speaker 1: not to be alone with him. That's pretty damning for
[14:00] Speaker 1: the Greens, don't you think? And doesn't it speak to
[14:03] Speaker 1: their culture?
[14:04] Speaker 2: Well, it's obviously a disturbing development and it has to
[14:08] Speaker 2: be dealt with properly. But without going into the ins
[14:11] Speaker 2: and outs of what Steel John may or may not
[14:13] Speaker 2: have done, as Shoebridge points out, this is all secondhand.
[14:18] Speaker 2: No victim per se has come up and said, yes,
[14:20] Speaker 2: he did this to me.
[14:22] Speaker 5: I received the correspondence. in my capacity as leader of
[14:25] Speaker 5: the Australian Greens. And I've dealt with it with the urgency,
[14:29] Speaker 5: which I think is appropriate.
[14:30] Speaker 2: That probably will have to be all examined by a
[14:33] Speaker 2: credible independent examiner. That's another challenge for the Greens. But
[14:38] Speaker 2: in the broad, what's going on here? You've got a
[14:41] Speaker 2: new leader and he's been told formally in a letter
[14:44] Speaker 2: by seven former staffers and members of the Greens party
[14:48] Speaker 2: that this behaviour has been going on for seven years.
[14:52] Speaker 2: In itself, it suggests, and at face value, who can
[14:55] Speaker 2: deny this, if it's all true, a blind eye has
[14:59] Speaker 2: been turned for seven, eight years, which is very damaging
[15:04] Speaker 2: for the Greens. And you'd have to suspect, and this
[15:07] Speaker 2: is my speculation here, that a lot of internal politics
[15:11] Speaker 2: is also being played.
[15:15] Speaker 1: Paul, thanks for breaking down another Wicking Camper for us.
[15:18] Speaker 2: Thanks, Daniel. Always good to talk to you.
[15:34] Speaker 1: 7am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's made
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