# “I feel sick about it”: Tanya Plibersek on the Swans, Scots College and rising misogyny

An episode of [7am](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1461999702), 27 Aug 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/62723a1f-3e96-4fc4-882c-b25e0181da4d/30299d8c-b5eb-4c29-b468-b4b3004a4fce/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=70f29d90-2a63-48aa-bf8f-b25e0181da70

Over the past two weeks, allegations of sexual assault involving some of the country’s most powerful institutions – the Swans and Sydney’s Scots College – have forced an uncomfortable question about how Australia responds when women say they have been harmed. But behind those cases is an even more troubling shift. New research suggests some young men are becoming more hostile towards women, while misogyny and sexual violence is being normalised online. And with pressure building on leaders and governments across the country to confront it, the question is whether the response is keeping pace with the problem. Today, Minister for Social Services Tanya Plibersek, on the institutions failing women, the forces shaping a generation of boys, and whether governments are doing enough to stop it. If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek Photo: AAP Image/Mick Tsikas See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. Over the
[0:08] Speaker 1: past two weeks, allegations of sexual assault involving some of
[0:12] Speaker 1: the country's most powerful and iconic institutions, the Sydney Swans
[0:16] Speaker 1: and Sydney Scots College, have forced an uncomfortable question about
[0:19] Speaker 1: how Australia responds when women say they have been harmed.
[0:23] Speaker 1: But behind those cases is an even more troubling shift.
[0:27] Speaker 1: New research suggests some young men are becoming more hostile
[0:30] Speaker 1: towards women, while misogyny and sexual violence is being normalised online.
[0:36] Speaker 1: And with pressure building on leaders and governments across the
[0:38] Speaker 1: country to confront it, the question is whether the response
[0:42] Speaker 1: is keeping pace with the problem. Today, Minister for Social Services,
[0:47] Speaker 1: Tanya Plibersek, on the institution's failing women, the forces shaping
[0:51] Speaker 1: a generation of boys, and whether governments are doing enough
[0:55] Speaker 1: to stop it. It's Friday, August 28. Minister, welcome back
[1:08] Speaker 1: to 7am. It's been a heavy couple of weeks for
[1:12] Speaker 1: Australia and particularly Australian women as we've seen the Sydney
[1:15] Speaker 1: Swans sexual assault investigation and the Scots College sexual assault
[1:19] Speaker 1: allegations play out. You've been critical of the response from
[1:23] Speaker 1: both the club and the school. Why is that?
[1:27] Speaker 2: Well, I think the early hours of the responses were
[1:32] Speaker 2: really seeking to minimise the responsibility of the institutions for
[1:37] Speaker 2: the sort of behaviour that we're describing.
[1:39] Speaker 3: I have to be very careful.
[1:40] Speaker 2: I don't want to prejudice any legal investigations. I think
[1:44] Speaker 2: the Swans' response has improved over time, but I was
[1:48] Speaker 2: pretty stunned really to see that the four-page letter that
[1:53] Speaker 2: went out from Scott's College yesterday asked people to pray
[1:56] Speaker 2: for the principal, but barely mentioned the victim of this
[2:02] Speaker 2: alleged assault. I think keeping victims and survivors of family,
[2:08] Speaker 2: domestic and sexual violence at the centre of our thinking
[2:10] Speaker 2: and response whenever we're dealing with this issue is absolutely critical.
[2:14] Speaker 2: And big institutions really need to learn that lesson.
[2:19] Speaker 1: So keeping the victims at the centre of any response
[2:21] Speaker 1: is an integral part of any institution's response to allegations
[2:26] Speaker 1: like this. What else makes up a strong response in
[2:29] Speaker 1: situations like this?
[2:31] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the first thing is thinking about the person
[2:34] Speaker 2: who's been hurt and how they need to be supported.
[2:37] Speaker 2: But we do have a bigger ongoing issue where institutions
[2:44] Speaker 2: look to protect the reputation of the institution before dealing
[2:50] Speaker 2: with the behaviours that we're talking about. I don't want
[2:53] Speaker 2: to oversimplify these things, right? But every family, every community,
[2:58] Speaker 2: every school, every sporting club, all of us have an
[3:03] Speaker 2: opportunity and a responsibility to deal with what we're seeing
[3:08] Speaker 2: in recent times, which is an explosion in the rates
[3:11] Speaker 2: of sexual violence, particularly where both the victim and the
[3:17] Speaker 2: perpetrator are under the age of 18. So we've actually
[3:21] Speaker 2: seen some slow but steady progress in other areas of
[3:26] Speaker 2: family and domestic violence. I don't want to overstate that,
[3:28] Speaker 2: but there's some encouraging signs because people have been working
[3:32] Speaker 2: really hard on these issues for a long time. But
[3:34] Speaker 2: when you're talking about under 18s in particular, the numbers
[3:39] Speaker 2: are going in the wrong way and they're moving very
[3:42] Speaker 2: quickly in a very bad direction. All of us have
[3:46] Speaker 2: a responsibility to turn that around.
[3:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned under 18s. Last week, while all this
[3:51] Speaker 1: was happening, Melbourne Uni released some pretty troubling research that
[3:55] Speaker 1: suggests we're going backwards, that younger men have been more
[4:00] Speaker 1: hostile in their attitudes towards women than older generations. It
[4:03] Speaker 1: found that 32% of boys 13 to 17 believe opportunities
[4:07] Speaker 1: for women have gone too far. What does that say
[4:11] Speaker 1: about the broader cultural problem here?
[4:13] Speaker 2: Well, I saw that research and it's really disturbing. About
[4:16] Speaker 2: a quarter of young men thought that Feminism was damaging
[4:21] Speaker 2: society and should be resisted with violence if necessary.
[4:24] Speaker 3: Like, that is crazy.
[4:27] Speaker 2: And, you know, to be resisted with violence if necessary,
[4:30] Speaker 2: I just need to repeat that. I really do think
[4:35] Speaker 2: social media is the driving force behind this increase in misogyny.
[4:40] Speaker 2: And teachers will tell you, that survey of 500 teachers
[4:45] Speaker 2: said that they're hearing the language of the kind of
[4:49] Speaker 2: red pill influences turning up in the classroom aimed at
[4:52] Speaker 2: both teachers, female teachers and other students, female students. This
[4:59] Speaker 2: language and behaviour normalises violence and oppression of women. And
[5:04] Speaker 2: it's being fed to our young boys that if you
[5:07] Speaker 2: set up an account mimicking a teenage boy, it takes
[5:11] Speaker 2: an average of 26 minutes before algorithms start feeding you
[5:14] Speaker 2: misogynistic content.
[5:16] Speaker 3: Like it's deliberate. This is not by accident.
[5:20] Speaker 2: This is how big social media companies drive traffic. They
[5:26] Speaker 2: know that division, hostility, anger, insecurity all feed their profits
[5:32] Speaker 2: and they are deliberately sucking our boys into this type
[5:36] Speaker 2: of material.
[5:37] Speaker 3: So we need to challenge the social media companies and
[5:40] Speaker 3: the way they make their money.
[5:42] Speaker 2: But the best way antidote to that right now is
[5:46] Speaker 2: actually the real world influence of loving, supportive figures in boys' lives.
[5:54] Speaker 2: That's particularly, they look first of all to their fathers
[5:57] Speaker 2: or father figures. Mums also have a huge influence here.
[6:01] Speaker 2: And then our institutions, our schools, our sporting clubs and
[6:04] Speaker 2: other institutions can also play that role in As a government,
[6:08] Speaker 2: we're taking on legislating a digital duty of care. We've
[6:12] Speaker 2: already banned social media for under-16s. We've put age verification
[6:17] Speaker 2: on pornography. We've banned deep fakes. There's things that we
[6:21] Speaker 2: can and must do as a government, particularly this next stage,
[6:24] Speaker 2: the digital duty of care, which holds the social media
[6:27] Speaker 2: companies responsible to provide a safe product. But the real
[6:33] Speaker 2: world influences in boys' lives are just as important.
[6:36] Speaker 1: Another thing governments have been funding in the face of
[6:39] Speaker 1: this torrent, this social media torrent, has been respectful relationships
[6:44] Speaker 1: and consent education. And they've been doing that for years.
[6:46] Speaker 1: The Commonwealth is spending more than $ 70 million on that.
[6:50] Speaker 1: If younger Australians are now expressing more hostile attitudes towards
[6:53] Speaker 1: women than older generations, is what we're doing failing?
[6:57] Speaker 2: It's not failing, but it needs renovation, that's for sure.
[7:00] Speaker 2: So the National Cabinet meeting that's just occurred has asked
[7:05] Speaker 2: education ministers to have a new look at respectful relationships
[7:10] Speaker 2: education to make sure that it's fit for purpose for today.
[7:12] Speaker 2: And we'll continue to invest in that using evidence of
[7:18] Speaker 2: what works, right? You actually really need to be talking
[7:21] Speaker 2: to young people about what's going to change their behaviour
[7:25] Speaker 2: and We're also working with organisations like Teach Us Consent.
[7:29] Speaker 2: We've funded them $ 3.
[7:30] Speaker 3: 5 million.
[7:31] Speaker 2: We're going to do further work with them on porn
[7:33] Speaker 2: literacy because young people talking to other young people in
[7:38] Speaker 2: many instances will have a larger impact and a better
[7:42] Speaker 2: impact than whatever lecture they.
[7:45] Speaker 3: Might feel they're getting at school.
[7:49] Speaker 2: But we also need to make sure that, like, most
[7:52] Speaker 2: young people get so much of their information from their peers,
[7:57] Speaker 2: making sure those peers are equipped with really good information
[8:01] Speaker 2: on things like choking during sex. There is no safe
[8:06] Speaker 2: way of doing this. Parents need to be saying it.
[8:09] Speaker 2: Schools need to be saying it. Your peer group needs
[8:12] Speaker 2: to say that too. We've seen this really disturbing numbers
[8:17] Speaker 2: on this. About 60%, almost 60% of young people say
[8:21] Speaker 2: they've been.
[8:21] Speaker 3: Choked during sex.
[8:23] Speaker 2: About 60% of young people say they've seen this in pornography.
[8:29] Speaker 2: Around 30% say their friends have.
[8:32] Speaker 3: Told them about it.
[8:33] Speaker 2: Another 30% say they've seen it in social media. This
[8:38] Speaker 2: dangerous violence is becoming normalised. So we need home, school
[8:45] Speaker 2: and peer group working together on things like porn literacy.
[8:52] Speaker 1: Still to come. Does the government and the Prime Minister
[8:54] Speaker 1: himself need to do better on respect for women? Minister,
[9:08] Speaker 1: ending gender-based violence was one of the items on the
[9:10] Speaker 1: agenda for the National Cabinet this week. When a big
[9:14] Speaker 1: cultural moment like we saw with the Sydney Swans happens,
[9:17] Speaker 1: is that something that you talk about around the Cabinet table?
[9:20] Speaker 2: 100% yeah around the cabinet table in Canberra with my
[9:26] Speaker 2: colleagues because obviously I have a responsibility as the minister
[9:30] Speaker 2: responsible for family and domestic violence and sexual violence but
[9:34] Speaker 2: the education minister plays a role through respectful relationships in
[9:37] Speaker 2: schools through the code we have at universities to protect
[9:42] Speaker 2: university students. The health minister, you know, making sure that
[9:47] Speaker 2: GPs and other frontline health services are there to recognise,
[9:52] Speaker 2: respond and support people who are victims of family, domestic
[9:55] Speaker 2: and sexual violence. Every minister, the communications minister has a role.
[10:00] Speaker 2: The attorney general has a big role here as well.
[10:03] Speaker 2: We are working together as a cabinet on the next
[10:08] Speaker 2: stage of the work we do through our national plan
[10:10] Speaker 2: to end violence against women and children. And then the
[10:13] Speaker 2: prime minister has spoken to all the premiers and chief
[10:17] Speaker 2: ministers at this national cabinet So there's a few immediate
[10:21] Speaker 2: actions they took, including commitment to do more work on
[10:27] Speaker 2: alcohol home delivery policies in particular. South Australia and the
[10:31] Speaker 2: ACT have moved on this. Other states and territories are
[10:35] Speaker 2: going to take action as well. The meeting yesterday agreed
[10:38] Speaker 2: on a national risk assessment framework so that wherever you
[10:40] Speaker 2: are in Australia, a frontline worker like a police officer
[10:45] Speaker 2: or a GP can better recognise people family or domestic
[10:49] Speaker 2: violence or sexual assault and support appropriately and refer appropriately
[10:54] Speaker 2: to keep someone safe. Like there's a lot of work
[10:57] Speaker 2: going on in this area. And I think this is
[11:01] Speaker 2: one of the most important changes in my, you know,
[11:05] Speaker 2: decades working in this area to have the prime minister
[11:08] Speaker 2: and the premiers and chief ministers prioritising this in a
[11:13] Speaker 2: national cabinet meeting that wouldn't have happened 20 or 30
[11:15] Speaker 2: years ago. Hmm.
[11:17] Speaker 1: One of the factors recognised as contributing to domestic violence
[11:21] Speaker 1: is problem gambling. With that in mind, are you happy
[11:24] Speaker 1: with the compromised gambling reform that was passed last week?
[11:28] Speaker 3: Well, I think the more we can do to address
[11:31] Speaker 3: problem gambling, the better. I think last week's reforms were
[11:34] Speaker 3: a significant step forward But, you know, the more we
[11:39] Speaker 3: can address problem gambling, the better. And we've obviously doubled
[11:43] Speaker 3: counselling support for problem gambling and the measures that were
[11:49] Speaker 3: legislated last week will take us further down this road.
[11:53] Speaker 3: I think it is important.
[11:55] Speaker 2: Problem gambling is an issue we need to address. Problematic
[12:01] Speaker 2: alcohol consumption, drug consumption, Again, none of these things cause
[12:07] Speaker 2: domestic violence, but they certainly can exacerbate family and domestic violence.
[12:12] Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I think it's really important as a
[12:17] Speaker 2: society that we continue to make further moves on this.
[12:21] Speaker 2: I also think it's important that state governments do what
[12:25] Speaker 2: they can. We know that I live in New South Wales.
[12:27] Speaker 2: Poker machines are a huge issue here. That varies a
[12:30] Speaker 2: little bit from state to state. But we know that
[12:34] Speaker 2: poker machines, you know, cause about half of the gambling
[12:40] Speaker 2: harm that we see nationally too.
[12:42] Speaker 1: You spoke about the importance of real-world examples in terms
[12:45] Speaker 1: of showing leadership around and respect to women, you know,
[12:48] Speaker 1: from our schools, from our sporting teams. But what about
[12:51] Speaker 1: the government? I mean, I hate to mention this, but
[12:53] Speaker 1: the PM's made headlines over the past couple of months
[12:55] Speaker 1: for his comments about the Japanese Prime Minister around melons
[13:00] Speaker 1: and about Kylie Minogue. Does he have to be better
[13:03] Speaker 1: on this issue himself?
[13:05] Speaker 2: I think he would be the first person to say
[13:07] Speaker 2: that the podcast was ill-advised.
[13:10] Speaker 3: He apologised for it. I think, look, Daniel, all of
[13:16] Speaker 3: us need to do better.
[13:18] Speaker 2: I take responsibility for my share of that. I, as
[13:22] Speaker 2: a minister, really, I'm not going to rest until we
[13:26] Speaker 2: are better as a nation on this. And Every person
[13:31] Speaker 2: who has a platform has to raise their voice against family,
[13:35] Speaker 2: domestic and sexual violence. And, you know, that's why I'm
[13:38] Speaker 2: grateful to you. This is, you know, the second time
[13:41] Speaker 2: we've done one of these interviews. You using the opportunity
[13:45] Speaker 2: you have to highlight this issue, every one of us
[13:48] Speaker 2: can do our share.
[13:49] Speaker 1: And finally, Minister, as a woman, as a senior cabinet minister,
[13:54] Speaker 1: how sick and tired are you of having to come
[13:59] Speaker 1: out and talk about these issues, to talk about the
[14:03] Speaker 1: lack of moral leadership across society when it comes to
[14:06] Speaker 1: domestic violence. Do you feel like you're making progress or
[14:10] Speaker 1: is it something that is just overwhelming at times?
[14:15] Speaker 2: I do know that we're making progress in some areas
[14:18] Speaker 2: and that's happened because of the hard work of people,
[14:22] Speaker 2: mostly women, who... work in refuges, who work on the frontline,
[14:26] Speaker 2: supporting victims of family, domestic and sexual.
[14:29] Speaker 3: Violence every day. How do I feel about it? I
[14:33] Speaker 3: feel sick about it.
[14:34] Speaker 2: I feel sick and sad because despite those steps forward,
[14:40] Speaker 2: we see new challenges emerging every time. And so many
[14:45] Speaker 2: of those new challenges are driven by the online world
[14:50] Speaker 2: and those online harms spilling into.
[14:54] Speaker 3: the real world, offline world.
[14:56] Speaker 2: And the idea that this is being done for profit
[15:01] Speaker 2: by companies who could choose not to do it really
[15:05] Speaker 2: sickens me.
[15:06] Speaker 3: I mean, we will.
[15:08] Speaker 2: Legislate, we will do the work as government, but the
[15:11] Speaker 2: biggest thing that every person can do right now is
[15:15] Speaker 2: strengthen those real world bonds that they have with young
[15:18] Speaker 2: people and Be someone that they can talk to and
[15:22] Speaker 2: ask questions of. Don't think that you're protecting kids by
[15:26] Speaker 2: not talking to them about sex and particularly about things
[15:30] Speaker 2: like choking during sex. We don't protect our kids by
[15:33] Speaker 2: not talking to them. We can only protect them by
[15:36] Speaker 2: strengthening the loving bonds we have with them and opening up.
[15:39] Speaker 3: Channels of communication.
[15:41] Speaker 2: So every one of us has an opportunity and a
[15:43] Speaker 2: responsibility to do that.
[15:45] Speaker 1: Minister, thank you so much for your time.
[15:47] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[16:00] Speaker 1: Also in the news, Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong says
[16:04] Speaker 1: the Department of Foreign Affairs is desperately seeking an update
[16:07] Speaker 1: on the welfare of Australians missing after catastrophic flash floods
[16:11] Speaker 1: along the Nepal-Tibet border. Nepali officials say hundreds are missing,
[16:15] Speaker 1: mostly tourists and foreign nationals, after a torrent of mud,
[16:19] Speaker 1: rock and water has been swept through the Himalayan communities,
[16:22] Speaker 1: destroying homes, roads and bridges. Experts believe an avalanche from
[16:26] Speaker 1: a glacier was the likely trigger. And Meta has agreed
[16:31] Speaker 1: to pay up to $ 23. 6 billion to settle lawsuits brought
[16:35] Speaker 1: by dozens of US states over the impact of Facebook
[16:38] Speaker 1: and Instagram on children. The states accused Meta of designing
[16:41] Speaker 1: its platforms to keep young people hooked while misleading the
[16:45] Speaker 1: public about the risks to their mental health. Under the settlement,
[16:48] Speaker 1: META will introduce tougher protections for teenagers, including daily time limits,
[16:53] Speaker 1: overnight restrictions and stronger age checks. I'm Daniel James. Thanks
[16:57] Speaker 1: for listening to 7am. We'll be back tomorrow.

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