# How Trump’s anti-vax agenda is infecting Australia

An episode of [7am](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1461999702), 17 Aug 2026, 14 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/62723a1f-3e96-4fc4-882c-b25e0181da4d/30886905-f43b-4a7b-8123-b4a9005de3de/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=70f29d90-2a63-48aa-bf8f-b25e0181da70

Last week Donald Trump signed an executive order calling for fewer childhood vaccines, sprouting links to autism – which have been definitively disproved by scientists and health organisations around the world. During Trump’s second term, the misinformation from the president and his health secretary, RFK Jr, has been relentless – undermining public trust in vaccines, as outbreaks of previously eliminated diseases flare up again. Today, Professor of Public Health at the University of Sydney’s Infectious Diseases Institute Julie Leask on the politicisation of antivax sentiment, and the implications for Australia If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: Professor of Public Health Julie Leask Photo: Bonnie Cash/EPA See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Today, we're proud to officially announce the United States of
[0:03] Speaker 1: America's gold standard childhood vaccination recommendations. And that has to
[0:09] Speaker 1: do with many subjects, but including autism in particular.
[0:13] Speaker 2: Last week, Donald Trump signed an executive order calling for
[0:16] Speaker 2: fewer childhood vaccines, sprouting links to autism which have been
[0:21] Speaker 2: definitively disproved by scientists and health organizations around the world.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Decades ago, children received only a small fraction of the
[0:29] Speaker 1: vaccines required today. In those times, people were much healthy,
[0:33] Speaker 1: and of course the high rates of autism now observed
[0:37] Speaker 1: did not exist.
[0:38] Speaker 2: During Trump's second term, the misinformation from the President and
[0:42] Speaker 2: his Health Secretary RFK. Junior has been relentless undermining public
[0:46] Speaker 2: trust in vaccines as outbreaks of previously eliminated diseases flare
[0:51] Speaker 2: up again.
[0:51] Speaker 1: And I saw this early on, and I've seen proof
[0:53] Speaker 1: of it where they have a vaccination that looks like
[0:56] Speaker 1: the size of a bottle of soda poured into a
[1:00] Speaker 1: little child's body, and bad things happen in many too
[1:06] Speaker 1: many cases. Because this is an explosion, this is an epidemic.
[1:13] Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones, and you're listening to seven AM today.
[1:17] Speaker 2: Professor of Public Health at the University of Sydney's Infectious
[1:21] Speaker 2: Diseases Institute. Julie Lease on the politicization of anti Vak's
[1:25] Speaker 2: sentiment and the implications for Australia. It's Tuesday, August eighteen,
[1:38] Speaker 2: so Julie, I thought we could begin with the executive
[1:42] Speaker 2: audo Trump signed last week to reduce childhood vaccines and
[1:45] Speaker 2: break up the measles, mumps and rebella shot. Watching that
[1:50] Speaker 2: announcement unfold, what were your thoughts.
[1:54] Speaker 3: Well, I was pretty horrified because it's going to create
[1:59] Speaker 3: a whole lot of stress for parents who get confused
[2:03] Speaker 3: about whether this vaccine is safe as it is. Measles, months,
[2:06] Speaker 3: rebella is one combined shot, and it's not great for
[2:11] Speaker 3: kids if that means that parents delay or miss out
[2:15] Speaker 3: vaccines altogether because they'll be vulnerable to diseases like measles
[2:20] Speaker 3: months and rebella. Measles can hospitalize one in ten children,
[2:24] Speaker 3: and we have outbreaks at the moment in Australia, the US,
[2:28] Speaker 3: many countries.
[2:29] Speaker 4: This is what gold standard science means. No bricks, pred
[2:32] Speaker 4: German answers, no institutional taboos, no sacred gallos, no hiding uncertainty.
[2:40] Speaker 4: Has the pathos that's examined the data, replicate the results,
[2:45] Speaker 4: tell the public what we find.
[2:47] Speaker 3: Be honest, we've already seen an impact on the confidence
[2:52] Speaker 3: of parents in Australia, and we know that through a
[2:55] Speaker 3: few ways.
[2:55] Speaker 5: One is just the sheer number of times.
[3:00] Speaker 3: They're told by the health professionals who give vaccines that
[3:04] Speaker 3: they're hearing more concerns about vaccination that look a lot
[3:10] Speaker 3: like the kinds of misinformation that Robert F.
[3:12] Speaker 5: Kennedy Jr. And others are putting out from the USA.
[3:17] Speaker 4: I fought for a simple principle when it comes to
[3:20] Speaker 4: the health for our children, government has an obligation to
[3:23] Speaker 4: follow the evidence wherever it leads. Tell the American people
[3:28] Speaker 4: the truth in your parents.
[3:29] Speaker 3: So in a survey undertaken by my colleagues in the
[3:33] Speaker 3: National Vaccination Insights Project last year, fourteen percent of parents
[3:39] Speaker 3: of respondents in this national survey said that they'd heard things.
[3:43] Speaker 5: About vaccination recently that had worried them.
[3:47] Speaker 3: And when we asked in open text response what those
[3:50] Speaker 3: things were, there was a lot about what Trump was
[3:54] Speaker 3: saying in the US about vaccines and children being given
[3:57] Speaker 3: too many and so forth. So it's really bad news
[4:02] Speaker 3: for public health and incredibly irresponsible for the US leadership
[4:06] Speaker 3: to be making these pronouncements.
[4:09] Speaker 2: And so how does that translate them to rates of
[4:12] Speaker 2: childhood vaccination in Australia. How widespread is it for families
[4:16] Speaker 2: to either decide not to vaccinate their children or to
[4:19] Speaker 2: minimize the shots.
[4:21] Speaker 3: So we've got vaccination rates in Australia that are declining
[4:26] Speaker 3: for two year olds. For example, they've come down from
[4:29] Speaker 3: about ninety two ninety three percent during the pandemic to
[4:34] Speaker 3: now just eighty nine percent. Now, that might seem like
[4:37] Speaker 3: a small percentage point drop, but it represents tens of
[4:42] Speaker 3: thousands of children who are missing out on timely vaccination
[4:45] Speaker 3: for the rest of their childhood and potentially into their
[4:48] Speaker 3: adulthood if they don't get.
[4:49] Speaker 5: Catch up vaccines.
[4:51] Speaker 3: And the reason for those low vaccination rates are not
[4:56] Speaker 3: just about concerns that people have, also about access to services.
[5:02] Speaker 5: So that's a big.
[5:03] Speaker 3: Part of getting kids vaccinated on time, and we need
[5:07] Speaker 3: to remember that convenient, easily accessible services that are free
[5:12] Speaker 3: to access are huge part of high vaccination rates.
[5:17] Speaker 2: And Australia does now have things in place that essentially
[5:21] Speaker 2: does force parents to vaccinate their children if they want
[5:24] Speaker 2: them to go to daycare. Or kindergarten for example. So
[5:28] Speaker 2: what effect do you think those systems are having.
[5:31] Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've got a couple of things in place
[5:34] Speaker 3: that require vaccination, for families to receive family assistance payments
[5:38] Speaker 3: if they're eligible, and for families to get them into
[5:42] Speaker 3: preschool or childcare in many.
[5:46] Speaker 5: Of our states and territories.
[5:49] Speaker 3: And those requirements mean that quite a lot of people
[5:53] Speaker 3: have this very significant incentive if you like to vaccinate.
[5:59] Speaker 3: For some it would be requirement because they really can't
[6:01] Speaker 3: manage without those things, those assets, the money or the
[6:05] Speaker 3: childcare access. In research done by the National sen Frimunization
[6:13] Speaker 3: Research and Surveillance, they found that there was an increase
[6:17] Speaker 3: in vaccination coverage from these requirements that were introduced. The
[6:22] Speaker 3: NOJAB no Pay legislation was brought in in twenty fifteen,
[6:28] Speaker 3: and those requirements have led to more kids being vaccinated
[6:33] Speaker 3: on time. But there are also these other policy side
[6:37] Speaker 3: effects if you like where for example, if it's a
[6:41] Speaker 3: requirement for children to be fully vaccinated so they can
[6:45] Speaker 3: go to daycare, some parents will not budge and those
[6:49] Speaker 3: kids miss out on early childhood education.
[6:56] Speaker 2: Coming up, the worrying rise in local measles outbreaks.
[7:09] Speaker 6: Health authorities are warning Australians to be on high alert
[7:12] Speaker 6: as cases of measles rise across the country. Falling vaccination rates,
[7:18] Speaker 6: combined with overseas travel are thought to be the cause.
[7:21] Speaker 2: Julie, as you said, we have already seen local outbreaks
[7:25] Speaker 2: of measles in children in Australia. Can you tell me
[7:29] Speaker 2: a bit more about how dangerous that is and how
[7:33] Speaker 2: concerned you might be about what we could see moving forward.
[7:37] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[7:37] Speaker 3: So, measles is a respiratory viral infection. It's incredibly contagious.
[7:45] Speaker 3: It can hospitalize one in ten children. It can cause pneumonia,
[7:50] Speaker 3: middle ear infection and in a rare number of cases,
[7:54] Speaker 3: brain inflammation. And what we have is certain pockets in
[7:59] Speaker 3: the puberation where people are not immune to measles for
[8:03] Speaker 3: a bunch of reasons. One, they might not have had
[8:05] Speaker 3: any vaccines to In a tiny number of people, the
[8:08] Speaker 3: vaccine fails and for some people they go, you know,
[8:14] Speaker 3: they might go overseas where there's very large outbreaks of
[8:17] Speaker 3: measles in some countries, they come back and they might
[8:21] Speaker 3: see the local outbreak. But in twenty twenty five, there
[8:25] Speaker 3: are one hundred and eighty one notified cases of measles
[8:29] Speaker 3: in Australia and this year's so far there've been one
[8:32] Speaker 3: hundred and twelve.
[8:33] Speaker 2: And all of this really speaks to this kind of
[8:36] Speaker 2: broader issue of deteriorating trust in health authorities. I mean,
[8:42] Speaker 2: how else are you seeing that play out?
[8:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, So the data on trust paints a pretty diverse picture.
[8:48] Speaker 3: So if you measure trust in the population in Australia overall,
[8:53] Speaker 3: you'll see it being pretty stable over the last ten years.
[8:56] Speaker 3: Certainly trust in public institutions with a bit of a
[8:59] Speaker 3: decline sits the pandemic. However, if you dig down a bit,
[9:03] Speaker 3: you see some concerning patterns. So, for example, with vaccination,
[9:07] Speaker 3: the National Vaccination Insights Projects surveyed in twenty twenty four
[9:11] Speaker 3: and twenty twenty five found that the proportion of people
[9:13] Speaker 3: who did not trust information about vaccines from their doctor
[9:20] Speaker 3: or nurse increased from six point five percent to nine
[9:22] Speaker 3: percent in just one year.
[9:26] Speaker 5: There are certain groups.
[9:27] Speaker 3: We're also seeing on differences in support for vaccination emerging
[9:33] Speaker 3: between the left side of politics and the far right
[9:37] Speaker 3: side of politics.
[9:39] Speaker 5: And that is a concern because what we don't want
[9:42] Speaker 5: to see.
[9:43] Speaker 3: Is vaccination to become increasingly tied up with identity politics,
[9:48] Speaker 3: particularly on the far right, because then that means through
[9:52] Speaker 3: an individual, Oh, well, you know, people like me, people
[9:55] Speaker 3: who I look up to, say I shouldn't trust vaccination,
[9:59] Speaker 3: I should be more skeptic. Then therefore I should not
[10:02] Speaker 3: trust vaccination. And that could potentially bring a whole lot
[10:05] Speaker 3: of people around to declining vaccination, which is just not
[10:09] Speaker 3: great for them, their families, or their communities.
[10:12] Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing here right, the politicization of
[10:15] Speaker 2: anti vac sentiment. What impact do you think that will
[10:18] Speaker 2: have when we hear politicians like Trump or RFK Junior
[10:22] Speaker 2: question the safety of childhood vaccines.
[10:25] Speaker 3: Look, I think that the worst thing about what's happening
[10:29] Speaker 3: with RFK Junior being in his position is for the
[10:34] Speaker 3: US population. And actually the worst thing that could happen
[10:38] Speaker 3: to vaccination coverage is to remove access to insurance for
[10:43] Speaker 3: poorer families in the US. But for Australia, I think
[10:48] Speaker 3: that what's happening in the US is going to keep
[10:52] Speaker 3: this kind of thread of doubt coursing through the rhetoric
[10:57] Speaker 3: around vaccination. People mind in their big you know, information diet.
[11:03] Speaker 3: Here snippets of headlines saying or Trump's casting doubt on
[11:07] Speaker 3: the safety of this vaccine or that vaccine. They might
[11:11] Speaker 3: then wonder, gosh.
[11:12] Speaker 5: Is this true? What should I do about it?
[11:14] Speaker 3: And just sort of seeding that level of doubt can
[11:17] Speaker 3: make some people delay vaccines, or it can mean that
[11:22] Speaker 3: they need to have more of a chat with their
[11:23] Speaker 3: health professional about vaccination. And we know that primary healthcare
[11:27] Speaker 3: professionals are really under the pump in terms of resourcing
[11:31] Speaker 3: and time.
[11:32] Speaker 5: So I am concerned about the.
[11:35] Speaker 3: Impact of what's happening in the US because, you know,
[11:39] Speaker 3: usually if you have a vaccine safety scare, and there's
[11:41] Speaker 3: nothing new about vaccine safety scares nor misinformation about vaccines.
[11:45] Speaker 3: It's been happening since Jenna developed the smallpox vaccine. But
[11:50] Speaker 3: if you have a scare, usually it's by a single,
[11:53] Speaker 3: you know individual, Often it's a doctor.
[11:55] Speaker 5: They go against the rest.
[11:57] Speaker 3: Of their medical colleagues, the governments on site, and they
[12:00] Speaker 3: try and invest in addressing the scare and bringing confidence back.
[12:05] Speaker 3: In this case, the government itself is responsible for scaring
[12:10] Speaker 3: people of vaccines, so it's absolutely supercharging this misinformation and
[12:18] Speaker 3: worry some messaging about vaccines.
[12:22] Speaker 5: So it's a tragedy for parents.
[12:24] Speaker 3: Really in the end, who are trying to do the
[12:26] Speaker 3: right thing by their kids and trying to navigate this
[12:29] Speaker 3: misinformation minefield and figuring out what's right and wrong and
[12:34] Speaker 3: who I can trust.
[12:36] Speaker 2: Julie, thank you so much for your title.
[12:38] Speaker 5: You are very welcome.
[12:52] Speaker 2: Also in the news, police are investigating an alleged sexual
[12:56] Speaker 2: assault involving several Sydney Swans players. Also looking into the incident,
[13:01] Speaker 2: which happened in Melbourne on Sunday night after the team's
[13:04] Speaker 2: win against Essendon. Swan CEO Matthew Pavlich says he's shocked
[13:08] Speaker 2: and disappointed that the players have found themselves in this situation.
[13:12] Speaker 2: And around two hundred and fifty thousand Australians who deliver
[13:15] Speaker 2: food and groceries are set to receive a legal minimum
[13:18] Speaker 2: wage for the first time. Under new rules approved by
[13:21] Speaker 2: the Fair Work Commission, workers will be paid a minimum
[13:24] Speaker 2: rate of thirty one dollars and thirty cents an hour
[13:26] Speaker 2: for engaged time from when they accept a job until
[13:29] Speaker 2: the delivery is completed. Companies will also be required to
[13:33] Speaker 2: provide a reasonable minimum level of personal accident insurance. I'm
[13:37] Speaker 2: Riby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks Wesning

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