# “I would perish”: The human cost of the PM’s NDIS cuts

An episode of [7am](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1461999702), 18 Aug 2026, 16 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/62723a1f-3e96-4fc4-882c-b25e0181da4d/7018989e-b64e-48f4-914b-b4aa00674b7b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=70f29d90-2a63-48aa-bf8f-b25e0181da70

Over six days of public hearings, Australians with a disability told parliament what losing NDIS support would mean for their independence, their families, and their everyday lives. Despite more than 4,000 submissions and calls for reforms to be paused, the government’s overhaul of the scheme passed the senate yesterday, with support from the Coalition. By tightening access and reducing some supports, the changes are forecast to save $37.8 billion over the next 4 years. But advocates warn the cuts will leave people worse off, and shift the costs onto families, hospitals and the states. Today, CEO of Women with Disabilities Australia Sophie Cusworth, on what these reforms mean for people who rely on the NDIS, and if the scheme can be made sustainable without leaving people behind. If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: CEO of Women with Disabilities Australia Sophie Cusworth Photo: AAP Image/Lukas Coch See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: I'm tired, I'm in pain, I'm at breaking point. But
[0:06] Speaker 1: I refuse to sit here and stay quiet while this
[0:09] Speaker 1: government attempts to strip us of our basic rights and dignity.
[0:11] Speaker 1: When I sat before this committee in June.
[0:14] Speaker 2: Over six days of public hearings, Australians with the disability
[0:17] Speaker 2: told Parliament what losing NDIS support would mean for their independence,
[0:22] Speaker 2: their families and their everyday lives.
[0:24] Speaker 3: I can't leave the house, nor can I actually access
[0:27] Speaker 3: the ability to have a shower, and that is a
[0:30] Speaker 3: vital way that I need to exist and live my
[0:32] Speaker 3: life as a disabled person. I would perish, i would
[0:34] Speaker 3: cease to exist, and many participants are in the same
[0:37] Speaker 3: position and that extension.
[0:40] Speaker 2: Despite more than four thousand submissions and calls for reforms
[0:43] Speaker 2: to be paused, the government's overhaul of the scheme passed
[0:46] Speaker 2: the Senate yesterday with support from the Coalition. By tightening
[0:50] Speaker 2: access and reducing some supports, the changes are forecast to
[0:54] Speaker 2: save almost thirty eight billion dollars over the next four years,
[0:58] Speaker 2: but advocates warn the cuts will leave people worse off
[1:01] Speaker 2: and shift the costs onto families, hospitals and the states.
[1:09] Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today
[1:13] Speaker 2: CEO of Women with Disabilities Australia Sophie Cussworth, on what
[1:17] Speaker 2: these reforms mean for people who rely on the NDAs
[1:20] Speaker 2: and if the scheme can be made sustainable without leaving
[1:22] Speaker 2: people behind.
[1:26] Speaker 4: It's Wednesday, August nineteen, Sophie.
[1:34] Speaker 2: After months of argument over these changes to the NDAs,
[1:38] Speaker 2: the Senate actually began debating the bill on Monday.
[1:42] Speaker 4: Tell me what happened in that debate.
[1:44] Speaker 5: So in the Senate on Monday we saw that each
[1:48] Speaker 5: Greens senator moved a motion that the Senate rejects the
[1:52] Speaker 5: bill and call for the Government to withdraw it.
[1:55] Speaker 1: People can and will die if this bill goes through
[2:00] Speaker 1: spill needs to be chucked in the bin.
[2:03] Speaker 5: A number of senators in particular noted something of great
[2:06] Speaker 5: interest to us at Women with Disabilities of Australia, which
[2:09] Speaker 5: is the gendered impacts of the bill.
[2:11] Speaker 6: Women already carry disproportionate care burden in this country. They're
[2:15] Speaker 6: filling the gaps in aged care and now they're going
[2:17] Speaker 6: to be filling.
[2:18] Speaker 5: The gaps in NDIS that is not cost free. We
[2:21] Speaker 5: saw a number of independent senators move to reject the bill.
[2:25] Speaker 6: I don't think that this can be done safely. We
[2:29] Speaker 6: heard that this will isolate people. People are already more
[2:34] Speaker 6: isolated than the general population.
[2:37] Speaker 5: We saw Senator Rustin on behalf of the Coalition noting
[2:41] Speaker 5: some concerns.
[2:42] Speaker 7: The Coalition has been working across the Parliament with the Government,
[2:45] Speaker 7: the Australian Greens and specifically Senator Steel John and members
[2:49] Speaker 7: of the cross Bench to improve this.
[2:50] Speaker 5: Bill and Senator stee John from the Greens moving substantive
[2:54] Speaker 5: amendments to the Act.
[2:55] Speaker 4: We do not fit into tiny little boxes.
[2:58] Speaker 5: And even though that noise government politicians and bureaucrats, that
[3:04] Speaker 5: is the reality.
[3:05] Speaker 2: So the Government won the coalition's support on this bill,
[3:09] Speaker 2: but only on the condition that it scraps its so
[3:12] Speaker 2: called widow tax on investment properties in return. So it
[3:16] Speaker 2: seems like at this point the bill is being used
[3:19] Speaker 2: as a bargaining.
[3:19] Speaker 5: Tool, which is something that the disability community is quite
[3:24] Speaker 5: familiar with.
[3:25] Speaker 2: We know lack many other marginalized communities.
[3:28] Speaker 5: Our lives are often used as bargaining tools. We saw
[3:33] Speaker 5: some pretty awful media commentary about the NDIS you know
[3:37] Speaker 5: in the lead up to these proposed changes. I think
[3:40] Speaker 5: we are often scapegoated, often used as a bargaining tool.
[3:45] Speaker 5: And what we need to keep at the center of
[3:47] Speaker 5: this is that we're talking about people's real lives. This
[3:50] Speaker 5: is one in five Australians is a person with disability.
[3:54] Speaker 5: You know, the majority of people with disability and not
[3:56] Speaker 5: on the NDIS, So only around twelve percent of people
[4:00] Speaker 5: disability our dis participants. But this is something that affects
[4:03] Speaker 5: all of us. We are part of every community. It
[4:07] Speaker 5: is incredibly devastating to see our community talked about in
[4:13] Speaker 5: these ways and used for political debate.
[4:17] Speaker 2: So when you look at this legislation now in its
[4:19] Speaker 2: current form, what does it actually change for people with
[4:23] Speaker 2: a disability?
[4:24] Speaker 5: So broadly, it makes changes to who can access the
[4:27] Speaker 5: scheme and what kind of supports are available under the NDIS.
[4:31] Speaker 5: It also gives the government really significant, broad sweeping powers
[4:36] Speaker 5: to make future changes.
[4:38] Speaker 4: So one of the.
[4:39] Speaker 5: Things that we've seen is that the government is making
[4:42] Speaker 5: a commitment to cut social and community participation support funding
[4:46] Speaker 5: by fifty percent under this bill. But if you look
[4:49] Speaker 5: at the actual text of the bill, you'll see that
[4:51] Speaker 5: this bill gives the government the power or any future
[4:54] Speaker 5: government to make a determination that would cut a whole
[4:58] Speaker 5: range of support categories by up to night. This is
[5:01] Speaker 5: just one example, but across the bill there are examples
[5:05] Speaker 5: of really broad powers, discretionary powers for this government and
[5:10] Speaker 5: future governments in this bill. So you know, the really
[5:13] Speaker 5: tangible change that we're seeing right now is these narrowing
[5:18] Speaker 5: provisions around access and eligibility and supports, but we're also
[5:21] Speaker 5: seeing these really immense powers.
[5:24] Speaker 2: Okay, well, tell me more about the concerns you have
[5:27] Speaker 2: as a person who advocates for women and girls and
[5:31] Speaker 2: gender to first, people with disabilities. What are your concerns
[5:34] Speaker 2: with the effects of all of this.
[5:36] Speaker 5: We see that this bill will have a disproportionate impact
[5:40] Speaker 5: on women goals in gender diverse people.
[5:43] Speaker 2: Firstly, for women.
[5:44] Speaker 5: Who are participants of the scheme or who are seeking
[5:47] Speaker 5: support through the scheme, facing reduced supports, facing additional barriers
[5:52] Speaker 5: to accessing the NDIS and the disability support system. What
[5:56] Speaker 5: supports they can get will ultimately shift more of that
[6:00] Speaker 5: responsibility onto unpaid careers. We know that seventy percent of
[6:03] Speaker 5: primary careers in Australia are women, and that around forty
[6:08] Speaker 5: percent of primary care as are people with disability themselves.
[6:10] Speaker 5: So we think that that will be a really tangible
[6:13] Speaker 5: impact for our community. In terms of the access changes,
[6:17] Speaker 5: we know that women with disability are already facing barriers to.
[6:21] Speaker 4: Accessing the scheme.
[6:22] Speaker 5: So often assessment tools used to assess capacity, functional capacity
[6:27] Speaker 5: or support needs are based on really male standard presentations
[6:32] Speaker 5: of disability, and that they often perpetuate the kind of
[6:36] Speaker 5: medical gender bias that we see in the health system.
[6:41] Speaker 5: We think that there will also be really tangible impacts
[6:44] Speaker 5: on women through the cuts.
[6:46] Speaker 2: And the changes to support.
[6:48] Speaker 5: So cuts to social and community participation support we see
[6:51] Speaker 5: will have a real impact on women's safety. So our
[6:55] Speaker 5: concerns are not contained to any particular provision. They are
[6:59] Speaker 5: throughout the bill and in relation to the sequencing of
[7:02] Speaker 5: these reforms.
[7:05] Speaker 2: And so when this bill was first introduced, the Senate
[7:09] Speaker 2: Inquiry was given just over four weeks to examine it,
[7:12] Speaker 2: and people with disabilities effectively had about a fortnight to
[7:16] Speaker 2: make submissions. How difficult is it to get a submission
[7:20] Speaker 2: together in that timeframe.
[7:22] Speaker 4: It's incredibly difficult.
[7:24] Speaker 5: We were given two weeks to get across hundreds of
[7:27] Speaker 5: pages of technical legal content. Ultimately we did write a
[7:32] Speaker 5: submission in about a week. We received over seventy influcements
[7:36] Speaker 5: on our submission. This was from organizations and leaders across disability, law,
[7:43] Speaker 5: gender safety, health, and I think this really reflected the
[7:47] Speaker 5: deep concerns that we're not just contained to our community.
[7:51] Speaker 5: They were deep concerns spread across sectors and a real
[7:56] Speaker 5: support for the disability community.
[7:59] Speaker 2: And so after backlash, the inquiry was extended and there
[8:02] Speaker 2: were ultimately six days of public hearings. What did those
[8:06] Speaker 2: hearings reveal about the concerns that people had?
[8:10] Speaker 5: The hearings revealed profound concerns. I think something that was
[8:15] Speaker 5: so incredibly powerful was watching the lived experience panels.
[8:21] Speaker 7: I am exactly who the NDIS was created to support.
[8:24] Speaker 7: Without assistance, cannot feed myself, shower myself, what sh or
[8:27] Speaker 7: brush my hair.
[8:28] Speaker 5: These were panels made up of people with disability with
[8:32] Speaker 5: lived experience of the NDIS. Maybe they had experienced already
[8:37] Speaker 5: really significant cuts to their plans, They were experiencing gaps
[8:41] Speaker 5: in their supports.
[8:42] Speaker 7: Reductions to my physio funding has caused a significant decline
[8:45] Speaker 7: in my already weak muscles, which I had spent years
[8:48] Speaker 7: trying to build up and will not be able to
[8:49] Speaker 7: regain them again due to my condition. When we say
[8:52] Speaker 7: NDIS cuts will kill us, this is what we mean
[8:54] Speaker 7: these changes will cause more people to die in pain
[8:56] Speaker 7: due to preventable debts.
[8:58] Speaker 5: We heard from people who had received medical evidence that
[9:02] Speaker 5: maybe they required forty hours of support per week, but
[9:06] Speaker 5: the agency had made a decision to give them five
[9:09] Speaker 5: hours of support per week. I guess my story of
[9:12] Speaker 5: giving evidence to the inquiry has really stuck with me
[9:15] Speaker 5: as well. I was in the United States attending a
[9:18] Speaker 5: conference on the Convention on the Rights of Persons with
[9:21] Speaker 5: Disabilities and in a global context, we are so proud
[9:26] Speaker 5: of the NDIS. The NDIS is a world leading disability
[9:30] Speaker 5: support system. And so in the day I was going
[9:33] Speaker 5: and we were talking about this world leading system of
[9:35] Speaker 5: disability support that we have in Australia, and then at
[9:38] Speaker 5: night I was giving evidence to this inquiry about a
[9:41] Speaker 5: proposal to really cut the NDIS of its core philosophy
[9:48] Speaker 5: coming up.
[9:48] Speaker 2: When support is cut from the NDIS, who ends up
[9:51] Speaker 2: carrying the cost? And so if you underneath all of
[10:03] Speaker 2: this debate and this legislation is this much bigger argument
[10:07] Speaker 2: about the cost of the NDAs. Governments have been saying
[10:12] Speaker 2: for years that its growth is not sustainable. Tell me
[10:16] Speaker 2: do you think the NDAs is too expensive?
[10:19] Speaker 5: I think it's it goes without saying that the NDIS
[10:24] Speaker 5: has grown, it has a cost, and it has a
[10:27] Speaker 5: number of participants that was not consistent with the original modeling.
[10:31] Speaker 5: It does cost more than those who created the scheme
[10:35] Speaker 5: expected it to. Whether it costs too much is I
[10:38] Speaker 5: think a different question. I think, you know, budgets are
[10:41] Speaker 5: about choices. We've heard that line throughout you know, lots
[10:45] Speaker 5: of debate around the scheme and the cuts to the scheme.
[10:48] Speaker 4: Budgets are about choices.
[10:49] Speaker 5: This is an investment in our social infrastructure. We also
[10:54] Speaker 5: need to think about need when we think about cost.
[10:56] Speaker 5: Does the increased cost of the scheme reflect that there
[10:59] Speaker 5: was significant unmet need? That there remains significant unmet need?
[11:04] Speaker 5: I think that there are opportunities to reduce the cost
[11:08] Speaker 5: of the scheme that do not mean that we are
[11:11] Speaker 5: cutting people's essential supports.
[11:13] Speaker 2: And the government still says that people leaving the NBAS
[11:16] Speaker 2: will have foundational supports to go to. So what are
[11:20] Speaker 2: you hearing about what currently exists outside of the NDAs
[11:25] Speaker 2: to help people.
[11:26] Speaker 5: These systems don't exist, They don't exist at scale, they
[11:30] Speaker 5: don't exist in a nationally consistent way. We are being
[11:34] Speaker 5: told that people will be removed from the scheme, but
[11:37] Speaker 5: they will not be falling between the gaps. We understand
[11:40] Speaker 5: that the twenty twenty three NDIS review made recommendations for reform.
[11:46] Speaker 5: They gave a recommendation for a sequence of these reforms,
[11:50] Speaker 5: and they said build supports outside the NDIS first before
[11:54] Speaker 5: making changes to NDIS access, eligibility, planning, and support. That
[12:00] Speaker 5: has not been what has happened here. This has been
[12:02] Speaker 5: the reverse. We are seeing people remove from the scheme
[12:06] Speaker 5: before those systems exist. We know that there is a
[12:08] Speaker 5: commitment to a system called Thriving Kids for a very
[12:12] Speaker 5: particular population of children with disability. We don't have any
[12:17] Speaker 5: detail on what foundational supports will look like for adults
[12:21] Speaker 5: who are removed from the scheme, and I understand that
[12:24] Speaker 5: the Department gave evidence throughout the inquiry based on some
[12:27] Speaker 5: very preliminary modeling, that perhaps ninety thousand adults would be
[12:31] Speaker 5: removed from the scheme within that timeframe. And currently the
[12:35] Speaker 5: question is to wear and we know that it will
[12:39] Speaker 5: drive crisis within public systems, so we expect to see
[12:43] Speaker 5: greater public health costs, greater costs on health systems, hospitals,
[12:48] Speaker 5: Crisis systems like the justice system, the child protection system.
[12:52] Speaker 5: We have been saying throughout this entire process. This bill
[12:56] Speaker 5: is framed as sustainability. It does not create sustainability, creates
[13:00] Speaker 5: crisis and.
[13:02] Speaker 2: The NBIS it was established thirteen years ago. Now, how
[13:07] Speaker 2: does where we've ended up in twenty twenty six compare
[13:10] Speaker 2: to the promise of what it was when it was first.
[13:13] Speaker 4: Legislated by Julia Gillard.
[13:15] Speaker 5: When the NDIS was first introduced, we knew that it
[13:20] Speaker 5: needed to be transformative. In the words of former Prime
[13:24] Speaker 5: Minister Julia Gillard, it was ambitious and it needed to
[13:28] Speaker 5: be ambitious. And I am so concerned that we are
[13:31] Speaker 5: losing sight of that ambition, that we are losing sight
[13:37] Speaker 5: of the philosophy of the scheme, which is to provide
[13:41] Speaker 5: disability supports that are reasonable and necessary, that enable a
[13:45] Speaker 5: person with disability to live an ordinary life, to participate
[13:50] Speaker 5: in the community, to go to work, to become a parent,
[13:53] Speaker 5: to leave the home. These are not luxurious things. This
[13:57] Speaker 5: is an ordinary life for a person with disability that
[14:00] Speaker 5: anyone else might expect to be able to live. There's
[14:03] Speaker 5: been a lot of discussion about returning the scheme to
[14:07] Speaker 5: its original intent, and I think when people are talking
[14:10] Speaker 5: about that in the context of cost savings. What they're
[14:13] Speaker 5: often talking about is having a scheme that exists for
[14:18] Speaker 5: people with permanent and significant disability. But it's such a
[14:22] Speaker 5: narrow way to talk about the original intent of the scheme.
[14:26] Speaker 5: We need to keep in mind the original intent of
[14:28] Speaker 5: the scheme was to uphold the human rights of people
[14:31] Speaker 5: with disability to live an ordinary life.
[14:36] Speaker 2: Sophie, thank you so much for your time.
[14:38] Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
[14:51] Speaker 2: Also in the news, up to five key Sydney Swan's
[14:54] Speaker 2: players are reportedly set to be punished by the AFL
[14:58] Speaker 2: as a police investigation into an allege sexual assault at
[15:01] Speaker 2: the player's Melbourne hotel continues.
[15:03] Speaker 4: The Sydney Morning.
[15:04] Speaker 2: Herald reports that the players will be dealt with under
[15:06] Speaker 2: a rule which prohibits conduct unbecoming or likely to prejudice
[15:10] Speaker 2: the interests or reputation of the AFL. The punishment is
[15:13] Speaker 2: a suspension of at least two games, and a court
[15:18] Speaker 2: has heard that Alan Jones groomed a junior staffer at
[15:21] Speaker 2: two GB for a decade, resulting in the.
[15:24] Speaker 4: Young man sending him explicit texts.
[15:27] Speaker 2: Complain at Ce told the court that he was a
[15:29] Speaker 2: driver for the radio shop Jock when Jones allegedly touched
[15:32] Speaker 2: his penis.
[15:33] Speaker 4: And kissed him.
[15:34] Speaker 2: The former broadcaster has pleaded not guilty to twenty indecent
[15:38] Speaker 2: assault charges and two counts of sexual touching. I'm Ruby Jones.
[15:43] Speaker 2: This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.

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