# The far right is winning. Could Australia’s neo-Nazis be next?

An episode of [7am](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1461999702), 7 Sep 2026, 16 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/62723a1f-3e96-4fc4-882c-b25e0181da4d/49976ffa-03f2-4137-b698-b4be009e6f62/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=70f29d90-2a63-48aa-bf8f-b25e0181da70

In imposing scenes in the UK over the weekend, hundreds of masked men belonging to the hard-right group Patriot Platform stopped traffic. Around the same time, political party AfD was making history in Germany – becoming the first far-right party to win in the country since World War two. And on the other side of the world, Australia’s high court will today hear from our most high profile Neo-Nazi group in a challenge, legal experts say could see the federal government’s ban on White Australia (formerly known as the National Socialist Network) overturned. Today, Associate professor of politics at Deakin University Josh Roose on Germany, the UK, and Australia’s high court challenge – as the far-right continues its march across the world. If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: Associate professor of politics at Deakin University, Josh Roose Photo: AP Photo/Matthias Schrader See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: In the UK over the weekend, hundreds of masked men
[0:06] Speaker 1: belonging to hard-right group Patriot Platform stopped traffic. Around the
[0:11] Speaker 1: same time, political party AfD was making history in Germany,
[0:15] Speaker 1: becoming the first far-right party to win in the country
[0:18] Speaker 1: since World War II. And on the other side of
[0:22] Speaker 1: the world, Australia's High Court will today hear from our
[0:25] Speaker 1: most high-profile neo-Nazi group in a challenge legal experts say
[0:29] Speaker 1: could see the federal government's ban on white Australia formerly
[0:32] Speaker 1: known as the National Socialist Network, overturned. I'm Ribby Jones
[0:39] Speaker 1: and you're listening to 7am. Today, Associate Professor of Politics
[0:44] Speaker 1: at Deakin University, Josh Roos, on Germany, the UK and
[0:48] Speaker 1: Australia's High Court challenge as the far right continues to rise.
[0:55] Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, September 8th. Josh, over the weekend in Germany,
[1:04] Speaker 1: we saw the far-right party, AFD, get more than 44%
[1:07] Speaker 1: of the vote in a state election, so the largest
[1:11] Speaker 1: of any party by far. As we speak, we're still
[1:14] Speaker 1: waiting to find out if they'll actually be able to
[1:16] Speaker 1: form government or not. But tell me about how this happened.
[1:19] Speaker 2: Look, what we're seeing globally has been a shift to
[1:23] Speaker 2: the populist right, the populist left, but also increasingly extreme
[1:29] Speaker 2: right party's particularly in places like the UK, Germany, coming
[1:33] Speaker 2: into the ascendancy. The messaging and the narrative here is
[1:37] Speaker 2: what's resonating for people. Not only is there a significant
[1:40] Speaker 2: cost of living crisis at a global level, in Germany
[1:43] Speaker 2: the migration challenges are significant, particularly after the Syrian civil war.
[1:47] Speaker 2: And what we see is quite traditionalist, nostalgic sort of
[1:51] Speaker 2: view of the way Germany used to be, the way
[1:54] Speaker 2: Germany is headed. And so they've basically been able to
[1:58] Speaker 2: capitalise upon that.
[1:58] Speaker 3: The AfD are the rising insurgents of German politics, shunned
[2:03] Speaker 3: by the political establishment, but not by an increasing number
[2:06] Speaker 3: of voters. With their anti-woke and anti-immigration rhetoric, their merch
[2:11] Speaker 3: and their unashamed German nationalism, they're all about making Germany
[2:16] Speaker 3: great again.
[2:16] Speaker 1: So this would make the AfD the first far-right party
[2:20] Speaker 1: to gain power in a state election in Germany since
[2:23] Speaker 1: the Second World War, right? Can you tell me a
[2:26] Speaker 1: bit more about the party and the platform that they
[2:29] Speaker 1: were running on for this election?
[2:30] Speaker 2: The party itself in a broad sense is anti-migration. It's
[2:34] Speaker 2: this idea of Germany for Germans. It's unfortunately got quite
[2:37] Speaker 2: strong historic parallels in what we're seeing.
[2:41] Speaker 4: One of the keynote speakers of this rally is Ulrich Siegmund.
[2:44] Speaker 4: He's the Spitzenkandidat or the lead candidate in this election
[2:48] Speaker 4: in Sachsen-Anhalt.
[2:49] Speaker 5: Der Spiegel magazine labelled him as the, quote, most dangerous
[2:53] Speaker 5: man in Germany. But on the campaign trail, he signs
[2:56] Speaker 5: that article which gave him that title, boosting his celebrity
[3:00] Speaker 5: status and winning smile even further.
[3:03] Speaker 2: The relationship, the potential relationship with Russia is something that
[3:07] Speaker 2: needs to be considered, given that Russia has been highly
[3:09] Speaker 2: interventionist in German politics and also in the context of NATO,
[3:15] Speaker 2: in the context of the Ukraine conflict. This raises concerns
[3:19] Speaker 2: about if this party was to gain power at a
[3:21] Speaker 2: broader national level. and other similar parties were to come
[3:25] Speaker 2: into power, what that might look like. So it's not
[3:29] Speaker 2: distinct from any other extreme right party around the world.
[3:32] Speaker 2: It's got a particular view of the role of women.
[3:35] Speaker 2: It's anti-LGBTQA+, it's anti-migration, Germany for Germans, and so on.
[3:40] Speaker 2: But there's definitely a deeply embedded racism in that as well.
[3:43] Speaker 4: AFD is very popular in this state, but some of
[3:47] Speaker 4: their policies that they're proposing are deeply controversial. They want
[3:52] Speaker 4: to ban the rainbow flag in schools. They have a
[3:56] Speaker 4: policy of what's called re-migration. Any asylum seeker or migrant
[4:00] Speaker 4: here who they say does not fit the criteria to remain,
[4:05] Speaker 4: they want to immediately, on day one, send them back
[4:08] Speaker 4: to their home countries.
[4:09] Speaker 1: And so why has the party become this popular then,
[4:12] Speaker 1: particularly in this part of Germany?
[4:14] Speaker 2: Again, it comes back to the socioeconomic challenges that are
[4:17] Speaker 2: facing Europeans. They've got a powerful online presence. They've been
[4:22] Speaker 2: able to mobilise and build a strong narrative. But again,
[4:26] Speaker 2: there's this perception that Germany has become weak, that Germany
[4:29] Speaker 2: has given too much to, in particular, the hard left,
[4:33] Speaker 2: to migration, that crime is going through the roof. There
[4:38] Speaker 2: are very distinct similarities with the narratives that we're seeing
[4:41] Speaker 2: employed here in Australia. about crime, migration, men not being
[4:45] Speaker 2: allowed to be men and so on. And they, unfortunately,
[4:50] Speaker 2: are very good at capturing that.
[4:51] Speaker 1: I want to talk a bit more about what's going
[4:53] Speaker 1: on in Australia at the moment. But before we do,
[4:56] Speaker 1: there were also these protests in Dover on the weekend
[4:59] Speaker 1: in England. So we saw hundreds of people wearing blackface coverings.
[5:03] Speaker 1: They were blocking roads. They were chanting. It was, I suppose,
[5:07] Speaker 1: another example of this kind of hard right anti-immigration rhetoric
[5:12] Speaker 1: that we're seeing in Europe right now. How did you
[5:14] Speaker 1: interpret that?
[5:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's obviously quite confronting vision in that you're talking
[5:18] Speaker 2: about hundreds of men wearing black, not dissimilar to what
[5:22] Speaker 2: we've seen here in Australia with the NSN. There is
[5:25] Speaker 2: a strong pushback, particularly outside of London, And by stating this,
[5:29] Speaker 2: I'm not giving sympathy to any of it per se,
[5:31] Speaker 2: to be clear. But there is a strong sense of
[5:34] Speaker 2: having been left behind. You know, the cities are run
[5:36] Speaker 2: by elites, that migration has, and crime related to migration
[5:41] Speaker 2: has gone off the chart. And so even isolated incidents
[5:45] Speaker 2: of terrorism or violence can assume a national level of
[5:48] Speaker 2: importance because they're platformed by populist leaders and figures. It
[5:52] Speaker 2: could be an attack on a children's daycare centre, the
[5:55] Speaker 2: mass murder of little girls. That assumes national significance. It
[5:59] Speaker 2: could be a crime wave somewhere. So this is playing
[6:02] Speaker 2: out at a national level. I've travelled there recently, but
[6:05] Speaker 2: also I cover a lot of content online through my work.
[6:09] Speaker 2: There's open talk of civil war. I mean, who would
[6:11] Speaker 2: have thought you'd see that in the UK context even
[6:14] Speaker 2: five years ago, let alone now?
[6:19] Speaker 1: Still to come, the push to overturn a ban on
[6:22] Speaker 1: the White Australia Party. Josh, here in Australia, we're about
[6:32] Speaker 1: to see the White Australia Party, which is the political
[6:35] Speaker 1: arm of the former NSN, National Socialist Network, challenge laws
[6:40] Speaker 1: that ban it in the High Court. Can you tell
[6:42] Speaker 1: me about their case?
[6:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've just seen a review of the listing
[6:46] Speaker 2: of White Australia, who really are, for all intents and purposes,
[6:50] Speaker 2: the National Socialist Network's latest manifestation. There's been many tensions
[6:55] Speaker 2: and paradoxes in that movement for some time. There are
[6:57] Speaker 2: isolationists who want to live off grid. There are accelerationists
[7:00] Speaker 2: who want to basically use violence to start a race war.
[7:04] Speaker 2: And then there are others who want to actually gain
[7:07] Speaker 2: parliamentary power through formal mechanisms. And they believe they can
[7:10] Speaker 2: do so in the context of the emergence of Hansonism,
[7:13] Speaker 2: the populist backlash here in Australia, particularly in the outer
[7:16] Speaker 2: suburbs and the regions.
[7:18] Speaker 6: Today, the organisation that would be colloquially known as the Neo-Nazis,
[7:23] Speaker 6: but has gone through different names, the European Australian Movement,
[7:28] Speaker 6: the National Socialist Network, and White Australia, has been listed
[7:33] Speaker 6: as the second prohibited hate group under the changes that
[7:38] Speaker 6: were made to the criminal code.
[7:39] Speaker 2: So both the White Australia Party and Hizb ut-Tiri were
[7:42] Speaker 2: simultaneously prescribed by the Australian government as hate groups. In effect,
[7:46] Speaker 2: that outlaws them from organising, from utilising resources, from gathering
[7:50] Speaker 2: resources and mobilising together. You know, we already knew that
[7:53] Speaker 2: well prior to that announcement, the NSN were already attempting
[7:56] Speaker 2: to mobilise under a different banner to say that they
[7:59] Speaker 2: were shutting down, but then popped up at protests employing
[8:03] Speaker 2: a range of other tactics, you know, attempting to seize
[8:06] Speaker 2: the mic and continue to build their movement in a
[8:09] Speaker 2: slightly different manner.
[8:10] Speaker 6: Supporting. Funding, training, recruiting, joining or directing this group constitutes
[8:19] Speaker 6: a criminal offence with a maximum penalty of 15 years
[8:22] Speaker 6: in prison. None of this will stop bigoted people from
[8:25] Speaker 6: having horrific ideologies, but it does prevent this group from organising,
[8:31] Speaker 6: from meeting and prevent some of the sorts of horrific
[8:35] Speaker 6: bigoted rallies that we've seen around our country.
[8:38] Speaker 2: It's important to remember that the NSN are doctrinal national socialists.
[8:41] Speaker 2: They draw direct inspiration from the example of Adolf Hitler,
[8:45] Speaker 2: from Mein Kampf, the ascendancy of the NSDAP during the
[8:48] Speaker 2: 20s and 30s, and their move into formal political power.
[8:53] Speaker 2: And so they view that as something that they could
[8:55] Speaker 2: aim to achieve. There's been talk about them in their
[8:58] Speaker 2: own networks for some time, gaining 1,500 signatures and pushing
[9:01] Speaker 2: this through. I think there's a strong public policy case
[9:04] Speaker 2: in Australia as to why that might not get up,
[9:07] Speaker 2: but that will obviously have to play out as well.
[9:09] Speaker 1: So when it comes to the High Court challenge, how
[9:12] Speaker 1: likely is it that they could win?
[9:13] Speaker 2: I'd say the fact that you've got an openly racist
[9:17] Speaker 2: party with individuals who've openly been involved in violent extremism
[9:22] Speaker 2: and a group of people who openly declare their love
[9:25] Speaker 2: of a movement that Australia's actually fought against, you know, fascism,
[9:30] Speaker 2: national socialism, the chances of them getting up in a
[9:33] Speaker 2: High Court through a public policy argument in place are low.
[9:37] Speaker 2: That said, nothing's impossible, and it's really important that we
[9:41] Speaker 2: listen to extremists when they say they want to do something,
[9:45] Speaker 2: because history has proven over and over again that when
[9:49] Speaker 2: extremists say they want to do something, they work towards
[9:51] Speaker 2: it and they seek to achieve it, and occasionally they do.
[9:54] Speaker 2: And I think it's important and it's incumbent on the
[9:57] Speaker 2: government at a bipartisan level to acknowledge this particular with
[10:00] Speaker 2: the extreme right.
[10:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose the point with the challenge, though, is
[10:03] Speaker 1: that the court won't necessarily be looking at the White
[10:06] Speaker 1: Australia Party and their ideology. They're going to be looking
[10:09] Speaker 1: at the laws and how they could be used by
[10:11] Speaker 1: any government of the.
[10:12] Speaker 5: Day, right?
[10:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, you could argue that, but there are a number
[10:16] Speaker 2: of cases as to why it wouldn't meet a reasonable
[10:18] Speaker 2: threshold for democratic and legitimate democratic participation. So we're talking here,
[10:23] Speaker 2: it's laundering of a violent anti-democratic ideology, it's conferral of
[10:28] Speaker 2: public legitimacy on racial hatred and anti-Semitism, giving the movement
[10:32] Speaker 2: actual access to public infrastructure and electoral funds if they
[10:35] Speaker 2: did receive votes, but also the risk of weaponising parliamentary privilege,
[10:40] Speaker 2: and also it's undermining of social cohesion on the whole,
[10:44] Speaker 2: particularly when you have an organisation that's absolutely dedicated, that
[10:47] Speaker 2: rejects social cohesion and dedicated to undermining you know, the
[10:50] Speaker 2: social fabric.
[10:51] Speaker 1: And White Australia is presenting itself as this legitimate political party,
[10:55] Speaker 1: but is this a group that actually wants to participate
[10:58] Speaker 1: in democracy?
[10:59] Speaker 2: This is a group that would participate in democracy and
[11:01] Speaker 2: instrumentalise democracy for their own goals if they thought they
[11:05] Speaker 2: could get ahead using it. We're under no doubt that
[11:09] Speaker 2: if there was another way to gain power, they would
[11:11] Speaker 2: have taken it. They view this as a mechanism through
[11:14] Speaker 2: which they can potentially gain votes, gain access to public resources,
[11:19] Speaker 2: gain a wider political platform, have some sort of protection
[11:22] Speaker 2: in speaking in the parliament and to gain and mobilise
[11:25] Speaker 2: mass support. The key tensions are, for example, with the
[11:28] Speaker 2: emergence of One Nation, how do they distinguish themselves from
[11:31] Speaker 2: an often at times extreme right but also a right-wing
[11:34] Speaker 2: populist party who already reject many of the things that
[11:37] Speaker 2: they say and do? Do they see themselves forming some
[11:40] Speaker 2: sort of coalition or do they see themselves as the
[11:42] Speaker 2: hard edge who would gain mass support? So there's a
[11:45] Speaker 2: lot going on here and it's important to look to
[11:47] Speaker 2: the lessons of history to understand that something that seems
[11:51] Speaker 2: reasonably incomprehensible or unlikely can in a few short years
[11:56] Speaker 2: change markedly. Really what the government should be doing is
[11:59] Speaker 2: looking at not only rebuilding social cohesion in a serious sense,
[12:04] Speaker 2: asking difficult questions, looking into potentially difficult solutions, including a
[12:09] Speaker 2: harder approach, not only to social media, which is unpopular,
[12:13] Speaker 2: but also a harder approach to now governing diversity in
[12:16] Speaker 2: this country and governing, in particular, extremists who have acted
[12:20] Speaker 2: particularly online with immunity.
[12:22] Speaker 1: And it'll be a few months before we know whether
[12:24] Speaker 1: or not the White Australia Party can legally reform. But
[12:27] Speaker 1: the fact that we are seeing far-right parties globally, in
[12:31] Speaker 1: the case of AFD, a party whose members have use
[12:35] Speaker 1: Nazi era language, have this kind of electoral success. How
[12:39] Speaker 1: vulnerable is Western democracy to extremism right now?
[12:42] Speaker 2: Western democracy is remarkably robust now for quite some time
[12:47] Speaker 2: in the context of global war, significant socioeconomic challenges, the
[12:51] Speaker 2: Cold War, the strategic pressures. But the equation that is
[12:57] Speaker 2: in fact in here is the social media and online equation.
[13:00] Speaker 2: For the first time in human history, every single person
[13:02] Speaker 2: is a publisher. Every single person has access to immediate
[13:06] Speaker 2: news and social media on their phones. They're communicating and
[13:09] Speaker 2: building alliances and online communities with people they might never
[13:12] Speaker 2: otherwise meet. People are not getting their news through the
[13:15] Speaker 2: mainstream media, so to speak, nowadays in the same way
[13:18] Speaker 2: that they were 5, 10, 20 years ago. We see
[13:21] Speaker 2: an absolute open sliver, free-for-all online, where the loudest, most
[13:25] Speaker 2: provocative and most binary voice wins, very often wins. And
[13:30] Speaker 2: so to that extent, you know, that regulation of the
[13:32] Speaker 2: online world has to be viewed and taken seriously. I've
[13:36] Speaker 2: got a resource. It's not a popular perspective. Everyone talks
[13:39] Speaker 2: about freedom of speech in this country as if it's
[13:41] Speaker 2: built into our constitution.
[13:43] Speaker 3: It's not.
[13:44] Speaker 2: We have to look at the issue of regulation of people.
[13:47] Speaker 2: We have to look at people who hide behind anonymous
[13:50] Speaker 2: identities online to dox others, to abuse, harass and threaten others,
[13:54] Speaker 2: to spread hate and hold people accountable for their actions
[13:57] Speaker 2: because we would if they did it in the street.
[13:59] Speaker 2: And yet we're allowing people to do this in online
[14:01] Speaker 2: environments carte blanche. We don't want to play whack-a-mole and
[14:04] Speaker 2: continuously have to do this. We have to work on
[14:06] Speaker 2: broader social cohesion. We have to work on social media literacy.
[14:11] Speaker 2: We have to work on citizenship in this country. We
[14:13] Speaker 2: have to do a lot of other whole-of-government approach policies, including,
[14:17] Speaker 2: quite frankly, getting our economy working with people again.
[14:21] Speaker 1: Well, Josh, thank you so much for your time.
[14:23] Speaker 2: Thanks for your time.
[14:35] Speaker 1: Also in the news, Australia's peak superannuation body says One
[14:39] Speaker 1: Nation's plan to allow workers to access 3% of their
[14:42] Speaker 1: super for three years to help with the cost of
[14:44] Speaker 1: living crisis would be economically disastrous. One Nation says the
[14:48] Speaker 1: policy would provide the average worker an additional $ 2, 300 a year,
[14:53] Speaker 1: with funds taxed at the concessional superannuation rate of 15%.
[14:56] Speaker 1: Treasury Jim Chalmers said the policy would set up the
[15:00] Speaker 1: next election as a referendum on super and and accused
[15:03] Speaker 1: One Nation of recklessly meddling with Australians' retirement savings. And
[15:09] Speaker 1: at least five people have died at Miami airport after
[15:12] Speaker 1: an Amazon plane overran the runway and burst into flames.
[15:15] Speaker 1: The crash sent thick black smoke billowing into the sky
[15:18] Speaker 1: and forced the closure of all runways at one of
[15:20] Speaker 1: the United States' busiest airports. I'm Ruby Jones. This is 7am.
[15:25] Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
[15:30] Speaker 3: You

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