# David Dastmalchian Hitchhiked to Roswell

An episode of [Ghosted! by Roz Hernandez](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1450864418), 1 Sep 2025, 58 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/9e2284df-da9c-43f2-b70f-b24b002decc1/91ad4428-03a4-4cb4-afa4-b33f0183d11a/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=2eda76c0-4b58-422b-bfd6-b24b002decd9

Once again, Roz is transported to the astral plane—David Dastmalchian is back!! It’s a reunion for the ages! Amid the infinite swirl of cosmic dust, the two discuss David’s epic pilgrimage to Roswell, synchronicities, and déjà vu! Want to share YOUR paranormal experience on the podcast? Email your *short* stories to GhostedByRoz@gmail.com and maybe Roz will read it out loud on the show... or even call you! Be sure to follow the show @GhostedByRoz on Instagram. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3WwYCsr See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:07] Speaker 1: What's that at the bed? It's spooky and jooky. I'm
[0:12] Speaker 1: pretty sure it's dead. He's coming this way.
[0:15] Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I ghosted.
[0:19] Speaker 3: I not nandas.
[0:24] Speaker 4: Plle.
[0:26] Speaker 2: Hey boo, it's me Roz and welcome to you Ghosted
[0:33] Speaker 2: by Roz Hernandez, the podcast where I talk to people
[0:37] Speaker 2: that I like about the paranormal.
[0:42] Speaker 3: People.
[0:44] Speaker 2: David Dysmalchin. I mean nothing, nothing about this guy is
[0:50] Speaker 2: uh is your run of the mill. He's even got
[0:54] Speaker 2: a last name that's super cool and fascinating. He is
[0:59] Speaker 2: just truly the coolest. He was on the pod last
[1:04] Speaker 2: year and he just gave us so much deep conversation,
[1:10] Speaker 2: amazing storytelling and one of my favorite stories I've heard
[1:17] Speaker 2: in a minute.
[1:18] Speaker 1: We get on this.
[1:18] Speaker 2: Episode today, so just like the last time I had
[1:22] Speaker 2: him on, we get all deep. We start talking about
[1:27] Speaker 2: a dicktion and what the world means in the universe
[1:32] Speaker 2: and just all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, you know,
[1:34] Speaker 2: I'm not pulling up my silly haunted dolls in my
[1:39] Speaker 2: what's this ghost trying to say?
[1:41] Speaker 1: Tell me?
[1:43] Speaker 2: I just skipped it this time and we just have
[1:46] Speaker 2: a nice deep conversation. I hope you enjoy I'm pretty
[1:50] Speaker 2: sure you will. He's an amazing actor as well. If
[1:53] Speaker 2: you've never seen his work, the guy, He's been a
[1:57] Speaker 2: lot of stuff and he's very talent. I'm obsessed with him. Okay,
[2:02] Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with him. Before we get into that, I'll
[2:05] Speaker 2: just tell you I am still toward the end of
[2:09] Speaker 2: the tour. I got a couple more dates.
[2:12] Speaker 1: I know.
[2:12] Speaker 2: I'm doing DC Los Angeles back at the Cavern Club,
[2:18] Speaker 2: which has finally reopened in Silver Lake. All those dates
[2:23] Speaker 2: are raz Hernandez tour dot com. I've been traveling NonStop.
[2:30] Speaker 2: We are recording this on one of my little off
[2:34] Speaker 2: days where I've been able to pop back to LA
[2:36] Speaker 2: to record a couple of episodes, and I'm just having
[2:39] Speaker 2: the time of my life and I'm getting to meet
[2:40] Speaker 2: so many of you, and I just I appreciate you
[2:44] Speaker 2: all for listening and supporting me and this weird stuff
[2:48] Speaker 2: I do.
[2:50] Speaker 1: Okay, here we go.
[2:52] Speaker 2: It's the second episode with David Dysmalchin.
[2:57] Speaker 1: On with the show. Well, yes for it, people.
[3:07] Speaker 2: You kept begging me to get him back, and I
[3:11] Speaker 2: can't believe it.
[3:11] Speaker 1: It's it's happening.
[3:14] Speaker 2: He is back. David Dysmulchin.
[3:19] Speaker 4: Oh nailed it ross. Your fans must be masochists. They
[3:23] Speaker 4: want me back. I really appreciate that though, Thank you
[3:26] Speaker 4: so much.
[3:27] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[3:27] Speaker 2: People were obsd when you were on last time.
[3:33] Speaker 1: Oh my god.
[3:34] Speaker 2: Because let me tell you, most of the time these
[3:38] Speaker 2: people would get on the show, tell me, oh god,
[3:42] Speaker 2: just monsters. They got nothing, they got nothing to say.
[3:47] Speaker 2: I don't know where they find these people. But then
[3:51] Speaker 2: every once in a while we get a David Dysmulchin.
[3:56] Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know what I want to be for you,
[4:00] Speaker 4: Like when you Instacart or you you know, you order
[4:04] Speaker 4: groceries from Dave Dismalchen. He has to go run a
[4:07] Speaker 4: second car. He's going to bring so much to your doorstep.
[4:10] Speaker 4: I want to leave it there for you. Roz, your
[4:13] Speaker 4: show is so awesome. You are so awesome. Like my
[4:17] Speaker 4: best de since childhood. Josh listens to you religiously, and
[4:22] Speaker 4: we've been talking about this stuff since we were kids,
[4:27] Speaker 4: and it's all the stuff that we still talk about
[4:29] Speaker 4: all the time. So when you started to rise from
[4:33] Speaker 4: the ashes of the entertainment world and your voice became amplified,
[4:38] Speaker 4: and I go, who the fuck is this person? They
[4:40] Speaker 4: are awesome? It was like wow. So yeah, it's it's
[4:44] Speaker 4: really cool. It's nice to be a fan of someone
[4:46] Speaker 4: and then have them want you to be on their thing,
[4:48] Speaker 4: and then for us to you get nervous because the
[4:50] Speaker 4: last time I was honest like, oh my god, what
[4:52] Speaker 4: if I saw what if we don't have the right chemistry,
[4:54] Speaker 4: what if it doesn't go well? And it was just
[4:57] Speaker 4: like but it was so good. It was so effortless,
[5:01] Speaker 4: and I really appreciate it. Thank you for making this
[5:03] Speaker 4: stuff so easy.
[5:04] Speaker 1: Oh my god?
[5:06] Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah, but also you got to follow what
[5:10] Speaker 2: you did last time.
[5:12] Speaker 4: Oh boy, now the pressure's on.
[5:14] Speaker 2: This is the second don't don't fuck itt up second?
[5:17] Speaker 4: Okay, well this could be my empire strikes back. Let's
[5:20] Speaker 4: be honest. Sometimes the second installment is even better than
[5:23] Speaker 4: the first. So get ready, everybody, hold on, buckle up,
[5:26] Speaker 4: because it's gonna be a bumpy high way.
[5:31] Speaker 2: I do love your backdrop. You have a fire going.
[5:35] Speaker 2: You're so vincent price.
[5:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's June in La. Why not have a
[5:41] Speaker 4: fire going? Right, That's what I say.
[5:43] Speaker 1: You're so cool.
[5:44] Speaker 2: You got candles, You've got I see a half moon.
[5:48] Speaker 2: I mean you you really are spooky a little bit
[5:53] Speaker 2: we're conjuring.
[5:53] Speaker 4: Over here, we're manifesting, and we're ritualizing all of the
[5:58] Speaker 4: good stuff.
[5:59] Speaker 2: I feel like last time you were on, we heard
[6:02] Speaker 2: some of your stories, we heard some of your thoughts,
[6:05] Speaker 2: and then I just you left us wanting more because
[6:08] Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I don't even know this guy's thoughts
[6:12] Speaker 2: on aliens.
[6:13] Speaker 1: I don't know this guy. There's so many things we
[6:15] Speaker 1: didn't get to.
[6:16] Speaker 2: So I feel like we should just just go through it.
[6:19] Speaker 4: Let's go, let's do it. Here we go, Well, let's.
[6:21] Speaker 1: Start with aliens. Do you believe in it? Do you
[6:24] Speaker 1: think there's right?
[6:25] Speaker 4: Absolutely, unquestionably? Do I believe that there is intelligent life
[6:29] Speaker 4: in the galaxy in Do I think this universe is infinite?
[6:33] Speaker 4: And do I think that you know, time, space, matter, dimensions,
[6:39] Speaker 4: all so beyond the realm of human understanding. I think
[6:43] Speaker 4: I'm one of those, you know, spiritual humanists who believes
[6:49] Speaker 4: in the power of science, believes that there is a
[6:51] Speaker 4: higher power, believes that there is room for aliens, cryptids, monsters,
[6:57] Speaker 4: all who exist in the same plane. And I, since
[7:02] Speaker 4: I was quite young, you know, I go to the
[7:05] Speaker 4: public library. I grew up in Kansas, and so go
[7:09] Speaker 4: to public library, and I would I would my mom
[7:10] Speaker 4: would take me quite often. I would either check out
[7:12] Speaker 4: the books on like monster movies so like and horror
[7:16] Speaker 4: effects makeup, or I'd look at anything I could find
[7:19] Speaker 4: on like the Occult. And I was also obsessed with
[7:22] Speaker 4: like aliens and fascinating And this is pre this is
[7:25] Speaker 4: like actually the birth of cable television. We're talking like
[7:28] Speaker 4: early eighties. I'm just getting there. So there isn't a
[7:30] Speaker 4: lot of stuff you can find on TV the way nowadays.
[7:34] Speaker 4: I mean you could turn on TV twenty four hours
[7:36] Speaker 4: a day and find another alien files special or documentary series.
[7:39] Speaker 4: But back then, it was like you had to go
[7:41] Speaker 4: seek it out. And they were at that time a
[7:43] Speaker 4: number of the like most in the common knowledge law
[7:48] Speaker 4: or you know, established stories, the roswells, you know, the
[7:51] Speaker 4: abduction stories, et cetera. So it's just enough to tantalize
[7:54] Speaker 4: me and make me start to wonder if there was
[7:56] Speaker 4: some connection between like cryptid law. I was fascinated with
[8:00] Speaker 4: like Mothman stories and stuff aliens, and because I lived
[8:04] Speaker 4: in Kansas and it was always so common that these
[8:07] Speaker 4: experiences are happening in more rural or less you know,
[8:10] Speaker 4: metropolitan areas, which is baffling to me. I mean, there
[8:13] Speaker 4: are some fascinating metropolitan alien stories, but like most are
[8:16] Speaker 4: outside of you know, metro areas. I was like, could
[8:21] Speaker 4: there be a way I could experience something? I was
[8:24] Speaker 4: so yearning for contact? I was so yearning for experience.
[8:28] Speaker 4: So probably second grade, I took a summer course at
[8:33] Speaker 4: a community college. I don't know why. I was like
[8:36] Speaker 4: a writing course, but I was allowed to research and
[8:38] Speaker 4: write a report on anything I wanted, and mine was
[8:41] Speaker 4: on alien encounters. Hell yeah, I had no science whatsoever,
[8:48] Speaker 4: but I believed somehow I was going to build a
[8:50] Speaker 4: communication device to pick up anything that may be existing
[8:53] Speaker 4: out there. So I took some Frisbees, wrap them in
[8:55] Speaker 4: aluminum foil, took speaker wire that I then ran into
[9:00] Speaker 4: the AMFM record player stereo that I'd inherited from my
[9:03] Speaker 4: older siblings that I had down my room. I was
[9:06] Speaker 4: in an attic room in Kansas, and I would put
[9:11] Speaker 4: those aluminum wrapped Frisbees as if they were you know,
[9:14] Speaker 4: antennae like dishes by my window looking out at the sky,
[9:19] Speaker 4: and I would tune the radio dial far, far far
[9:23] Speaker 4: down to the left on the FM and then far
[9:25] Speaker 4: to the all over the place on the AM and
[9:27] Speaker 4: just listen for hours at a time for anything I
[9:30] Speaker 4: might be able to hear. That's that's the start of
[9:34] Speaker 4: the story. I mean that that just sets up like
[9:36] Speaker 4: the journey that now leads to a forty nine year
[9:38] Speaker 4: old who's still fascinated with this. I mean, Josh, Josh,
[9:41] Speaker 4: Josh and I took up pilgrimage to Roswell. That's a
[9:45] Speaker 4: whole story. I mean we I.
[9:47] Speaker 1: Want to hear about that. I've never been.
[9:49] Speaker 2: I want to go so bad. I like to joke
[9:53] Speaker 2: that my middle name as well, but it's I don't
[9:56] Speaker 2: have a middle name, but ros Well Hernandez.
[10:03] Speaker 4: I love that. Yeah, no middle name for me. I
[10:05] Speaker 4: don't know why because my family was religious growing up,
[10:08] Speaker 4: and I feel like it comes from religious traditions. I
[10:09] Speaker 4: could be wrong. How come you don't have a middle name,
[10:12] Speaker 4: did you just?
[10:12] Speaker 2: Well, I chose my name as an adult, so and
[10:15] Speaker 2: I didn't choose a medal, so legally I don't have
[10:19] Speaker 2: a medal. But I'll just say, well, well it's Ra's well.
[10:27] Speaker 4: So we'll jump around a little bit here. But for
[10:30] Speaker 4: those curious, because you know, Josh and I grew up
[10:33] Speaker 4: fascinated and obsessed with all things ex phileyan We. I
[10:37] Speaker 4: was working as a fisherman in Alaska. I was trying
[10:41] Speaker 4: to put money to Yeah, I worked as a professional
[10:44] Speaker 4: fisherman in Alaska for several years. I was trying to
[10:46] Speaker 4: put together the money to continue to support myself to
[10:49] Speaker 4: finish college, which I was going to in Chicago at
[10:52] Speaker 4: that time. And I'm like nineteen twenty years old already
[10:56] Speaker 4: is struggling deeply, by the way, with my own battles
[10:59] Speaker 4: with addiction and mental illness stuff. And it was like,
[11:03] Speaker 4: I get away to this boat thinking it's going to
[11:05] Speaker 4: be a straightening out time for me to get off
[11:07] Speaker 4: of stuff, and instead there was more drugs there than
[11:09] Speaker 4: you could find in the city of Chicago. And Josh
[11:13] Speaker 4: was at the same school as me. We were actually roommates.
[11:16] Speaker 4: We were about to be roommates back in Chicago when
[11:18] Speaker 4: I returned to college. So he was on a trip
[11:21] Speaker 4: with his family to Seattle. I said, well, I'm on
[11:23] Speaker 4: a leave from the boats. How about when we dock
[11:27] Speaker 4: in Seattle we meet, and we did. We met, and
[11:31] Speaker 4: then we said let's get on and off buses going
[11:35] Speaker 4: down the coast. We went to San Francisco, tried to
[11:39] Speaker 4: score acid in the Haye Ashbury got something. We don't
[11:41] Speaker 4: know what it was. You know, we were like shoplifting
[11:44] Speaker 4: our lunches, sleeping on the beach. Terrible idea. Never sleep
[11:48] Speaker 4: on the beach in San Francisco at the Golden Gate
[11:50] Speaker 4: Park you will freeze to death, which we did, we
[11:52] Speaker 4: nearly did. Then we kept going south. Our goal was
[11:56] Speaker 4: to get to Roswell, so we finally get as far
[11:59] Speaker 4: as the Rayhound station in downtown Roswell. We realized we
[12:02] Speaker 4: have no plan because to get out to the area
[12:07] Speaker 4: is a hike. And I don't mean by feet, I
[12:09] Speaker 4: mean like maybe it was twenty miles. I forget. There's
[12:12] Speaker 4: no way we could walk this thing. Although, like the
[12:15] Speaker 4: ambitious young fools we were, we started walking along a
[12:18] Speaker 4: railroad track, just heading in the direction of the base,
[12:23] Speaker 4: and we started hitchhiking, and fortunately got picked up by
[12:28] Speaker 4: this really nice farmer who was telling us no, actually
[12:32] Speaker 4: that's not true. It was yes, that was true. It
[12:35] Speaker 4: was a farmer. His name was David, I believe. But
[12:38] Speaker 4: the interesting thing about him he was telling me about
[12:40] Speaker 4: his son who had struggled with addiction, and he was
[12:43] Speaker 4: trying to give us advice, which we weren't really interested
[12:47] Speaker 4: in listening to. But he was the loveliest of men.
[12:49] Speaker 4: I mean, he's just so kind and gave us a
[12:52] Speaker 4: ride all the way out to Lake van. This is
[12:55] Speaker 4: not really a lake. It felt like a pond. It's
[12:57] Speaker 4: on the edge of the fence that can get you
[12:59] Speaker 4: to the area. So we start exploring and trying to
[13:03] Speaker 4: figure out how where we're going to sneak in, how
[13:06] Speaker 4: we're going to get there. And each time we get
[13:09] Speaker 4: close to a spot where we think we can penetrate,
[13:11] Speaker 4: like military, there are these signs that are just like
[13:14] Speaker 4: you will be shocked, like do not come further, you
[13:18] Speaker 4: will be shocked.
[13:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's terrifying. I feel like they're not messing around
[13:22] Speaker 2: in New Mexico.
[13:24] Speaker 4: No messing around, no messing around. And it's the government.
[13:28] Speaker 4: So we decide, let's sleep by the edge of the
[13:36] Speaker 4: fence to night and let's just spy. Let's be spies.
[13:38] Speaker 4: Let's sneak around and see what we can find. Well,
[13:41] Speaker 4: eventually we get hungry, of course, and eventually we're like,
[13:44] Speaker 4: what are we doing? And there's this little family, there's
[13:48] Speaker 4: a gazebo by this little lake and it's this. They're
[13:51] Speaker 4: having this like little wedding with like a band plan,
[13:56] Speaker 4: and I mean there's like a truck driver and this
[13:59] Speaker 4: long time girlfriend decided they're going to get married. And
[14:03] Speaker 4: we're spying all their food looking like that looks really good,
[14:06] Speaker 4: and they wave us over. We get to eat with
[14:08] Speaker 4: these folks, We get to party with them, have a
[14:11] Speaker 4: great time at their wedding. They clean up and clear out,
[14:14] Speaker 4: and now where bellies are full, the sun is setting.
[14:16] Speaker 4: Josh has his camera with film loaded in it, and
[14:20] Speaker 4: we lay under the stars ready to we know something.
[14:25] Speaker 4: We could just feel it, something's going to happen, and Roz,
[14:29] Speaker 4: the sky just starts lighting up with an electrical storm
[14:34] Speaker 4: and it's the most intense electrical storm, Like the lightning
[14:38] Speaker 4: is so fierce and intense, and we were getting scared,
[14:41] Speaker 4: and Josh is like taking pictures of the sky because
[14:44] Speaker 4: the sky looks weird and crazy, and we're like, what
[14:48] Speaker 4: are we about to see? What is being conducted out here?
[14:51] Speaker 4: And then it rain starts like shit, so we run.
[14:56] Speaker 4: There's like a little bathroomy thing hutch out in this place.
[14:59] Speaker 4: We run and we hide in there and we wait
[15:02] Speaker 4: until the rain passes and now we go back to
[15:04] Speaker 4: this like concrete slab or we lay down and eventually
[15:06] Speaker 4: we are able to finally get some sleep. And we're
[15:09] Speaker 4: so excited about some of the pictures that he took
[15:12] Speaker 4: because we felt like everything just seemed so strange, and
[15:15] Speaker 4: that the lightning formation seems strange, and we're like, I
[15:18] Speaker 4: bet you there's something we're gonna get this filmed, and
[15:20] Speaker 4: there's something we'd get up in the morning. And when
[15:24] Speaker 4: we were between us, maybe there's fifteen dollars left, like
[15:27] Speaker 4: to our names and where there's a little diner up
[15:30] Speaker 4: the hill, and we're like, maybe we'll go to the diner,
[15:31] Speaker 4: get some food and then we can hitchhike back to town.
[15:35] Speaker 4: So we're gathering our stuff and we're like, where's the camera,
[15:39] Speaker 4: And we go through all of our stuff where Josh
[15:41] Speaker 4: had put the camera. Where's the fucking camera? Now, a logical,
[15:47] Speaker 4: a grown adult would say, you two were wild, you know,
[15:50] Speaker 4: running in an electric storm. Somebody dropped it. But it
[15:53] Speaker 4: was only about twenty feet between where we had been
[15:56] Speaker 4: laying and where that bathroom was. That we took shelter,
[15:58] Speaker 4: and we looked all over or all morning. We even
[16:02] Speaker 4: put signs up at the diner, like, if you find
[16:06] Speaker 4: a camera, please call this number. So the conspiratorial part
[16:11] Speaker 4: of myself says that absolutely somebody took our camera from us,
[16:16] Speaker 4: the parent and forty nine year old amigos. You guys
[16:20] Speaker 4: probably just dropped it running back and forth. But we
[16:22] Speaker 4: searched high and low, and then we took the butt
[16:24] Speaker 4: we did get. We got these wonderful a truck full
[16:29] Speaker 4: of migrant workers. We didn't speak Spanish, they didn't speak English,
[16:33] Speaker 4: and it didn't matter. They threw us in their truck
[16:35] Speaker 4: with them, gave us a ride all the way back
[16:37] Speaker 4: to town. We had this wonderful time with them. What
[16:40] Speaker 4: an adventure. So that's one of my stories. The other
[16:44] Speaker 4: is a little more crazy.
[16:46] Speaker 2: I'm going with the aliens stole your camera, thank you,
[16:51] Speaker 2: And I think you got to get the Frisbees with
[16:54] Speaker 2: the aluminum foil back and see if you know, you
[16:58] Speaker 2: can get a hold of them, see if they would
[17:01] Speaker 2: return that.
[17:02] Speaker 4: Well, by the way, how are we doing so far?
[17:05] Speaker 4: Second part two? Are we having fun? Everybody? Everybody? This
[17:09] Speaker 4: story is okay, hold on hold on to your Frisbees. Okay,
[17:13] Speaker 4: hold on your aluminum covered Frisbees. Let's backtrack now that
[17:20] Speaker 4: bedroom in Kansas. It's the holidays. I'm about eight or
[17:26] Speaker 4: nine years old, maybe a little younger, but I'm young
[17:29] Speaker 4: enough that I still have a faith or belief in
[17:31] Speaker 4: Santa Claus. And if you're listening and you still have
[17:35] Speaker 4: a faith and belief in Santa Claus, good for you.
[17:38] Speaker 3: You should well, yeah, of course he's real.
[17:41] Speaker 4: So I am awoken one night, deep, deep, deep into
[17:46] Speaker 4: the late hour, by a feeling, a sensation something. Now
[17:50] Speaker 4: was I awoken or was it a dream? Who knows.
[17:53] Speaker 4: I walk to the window of my attic bedroom that
[17:55] Speaker 4: looks out on the Kansas sky, and I see this
[17:59] Speaker 4: blue light coming towards the window from the sky, and
[18:03] Speaker 4: it's the strangest size of a ball of light. Because
[18:06] Speaker 4: I can't tell the distance between me and the light,
[18:10] Speaker 4: it seems like it could be a mile away. It
[18:12] Speaker 4: seems like it could be twelve feet away. Like its
[18:15] Speaker 4: shape and its size didn't seem to change, even though
[18:18] Speaker 4: it was getting closer, which you would think it would
[18:21] Speaker 4: expand in size as it gets closer. So it's very
[18:24] Speaker 4: hard to describe. But as it got closer, I did
[18:27] Speaker 4: realize it was not a light. It was a formation
[18:29] Speaker 4: of lights, and the lights shifted in their formation. Maybe
[18:35] Speaker 4: this lasted twenty seconds, maybe it lasted a minute. I
[18:40] Speaker 4: don't know. I was so groggy and it was so
[18:44] Speaker 4: odd to me, and it was I was young enough
[18:47] Speaker 4: ros that it was the kind of thing. So when
[18:49] Speaker 4: I go back to bed, I don't know. I don't know.
[18:51] Speaker 4: If I lay there and thought about it, it pondered it,
[18:54] Speaker 4: but I just went back to bed, and all I
[18:55] Speaker 4: remember thinking was, oh, I saw the real I saw Santa.
[18:59] Speaker 4: I saw the real Santa. Oh you thought I was
[19:01] Speaker 4: rude of no kidding, even though I was already fascinated
[19:05] Speaker 4: by aliens. I don't know why my brain didn't go
[19:08] Speaker 4: to aliens. My brain went to Santa. So the interesting
[19:10] Speaker 4: thing was for another year, maybe I would say to
[19:12] Speaker 4: people with all sincerity like, oh I've seen Santa Santa Israel,
[19:16] Speaker 4: and of course no one people would laugh. And then
[19:19] Speaker 4: the years go by, and you let time pass, and
[19:22] Speaker 4: you let memory become what it does, because our brains
[19:25] Speaker 4: are editing machines, and they do what they will with memories,
[19:28] Speaker 4: especially the more harder process memories, or the more complicated
[19:32] Speaker 4: or odd ones. Now, when I decided to go become
[19:36] Speaker 4: a fisherman in Alaska. I had no money. I was
[19:40] Speaker 4: in Chicago trying to get myself through theater school, and
[19:43] Speaker 4: so I took a bus out to Seattle, where I
[19:46] Speaker 4: knew that the fishing boat's hired, because I thought, well,
[19:49] Speaker 4: I've read about these are the backs of comic books,
[19:51] Speaker 4: and I could get a job on a fishing boat,
[19:53] Speaker 4: and I could make it, says one thousand dollars a week,
[19:56] Speaker 4: and then I could save up enough money to go
[19:58] Speaker 4: finish school. So that's the goal. I get to Seattle,
[20:00] Speaker 4: Washing it much harder to just get a job on
[20:02] Speaker 4: a fishing boat than I had imagined it would be.
[20:04] Speaker 4: I was going to all the docks talking to the
[20:06] Speaker 4: boat workers, and I was sleeping in the park on
[20:09] Speaker 4: the nights that it wasn't raining, but because at Seattle
[20:12] Speaker 4: when it was raining, I was sleeping at the Bread
[20:14] Speaker 4: of Life mission for the unhoused at First Pioneer Square
[20:18] Speaker 4: first in Maine in Seattle, and Pioneer Square is a
[20:21] Speaker 4: wonderful gathering place of all the different people from the city.
[20:25] Speaker 4: And I would just sit there if I wasn't able
[20:28] Speaker 4: to pick up a day labor gig, just I would
[20:30] Speaker 4: smoke roll them up cigarettes called buglers and I would
[20:33] Speaker 4: just wait until I was able to get myself connected
[20:36] Speaker 4: with a fishing job. And I'm sitting there in the
[20:39] Speaker 4: Pioneer Square one day and there's this gentleman who appears
[20:42] Speaker 4: maybe unhoused. Maybe he's just a Mary prankster who dresses
[20:47] Speaker 4: in tatters. But there's a style to him, a bit
[20:50] Speaker 4: mad hatterie style with like a kind of a pork pipe. No,
[20:54] Speaker 4: it's more like make a top hat, but it's self fabricated,
[20:57] Speaker 4: like this guy has either followed the Grateful Dead, or
[21:00] Speaker 4: he's been to Burning Man or something, and he's just
[21:02] Speaker 4: he's in another special place, and he was performing with
[21:06] Speaker 4: things that he had made. He'd taken old boxes of cereal,
[21:09] Speaker 4: some of my favorite cereals, by the way, like Captain Crunch.
[21:11] Speaker 4: I think there were some of the Monster seials and
[21:13] Speaker 4: he formed them into like percussive instruments. And he's he's
[21:17] Speaker 4: doing kind of a dance. He looks like a marionette almost,
[21:20] Speaker 4: and he's performing for these tourists. But I don't think
[21:23] Speaker 4: anyone knows what's going on, so I don't think anyone's
[21:25] Speaker 4: giving him any money. And he makes eye contact with
[21:27] Speaker 4: me from across the park, from across the square, and
[21:31] Speaker 4: we have this deep eye contact and he gestures like
[21:33] Speaker 4: a cigarette as if he's asking me for a cigarette.
[21:35] Speaker 4: So I just kind of nod and he comes over
[21:37] Speaker 4: in this very strange fashion, and I give him a
[21:40] Speaker 4: cigarette and he says, oh, thank you so much, and
[21:42] Speaker 4: I say ah. And he says, my name is Francis,
[21:46] Speaker 4: and I don't even tell him my name. And he's
[21:49] Speaker 4: talking to me and he's making really no sense to
[21:51] Speaker 4: me at first, but he seems very harmless and sweet
[21:54] Speaker 4: and this merry guy. And he says, oh, blue, and
[22:01] Speaker 4: I said what, and he goes, well, they visited you
[22:04] Speaker 4: when you're little. You're blue dah. And I said, I'm sorry,
[22:11] Speaker 4: and he reaches into his little session and he pulls
[22:14] Speaker 4: out a This is so strange because around the time
[22:19] Speaker 4: that this happened to me, the Kansas City Royals won
[22:21] Speaker 4: the World Series and I was a big, big, big
[22:24] Speaker 4: flip out. I mean I still have like a tantoo,
[22:26] Speaker 4: like I was like freaked out, so excited. He hands
[22:30] Speaker 4: me a Kansas City Royals baseball card and he says,
[22:34] Speaker 4: blue is special. They're all special, you know, but you're
[22:38] Speaker 4: you know, you're blue, and they they shared some things
[22:42] Speaker 4: with you, and I said, I don't know. At this point,
[22:45] Speaker 4: I was not willing to ignowl. I was like, I
[22:48] Speaker 4: don't I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.
[22:50] Speaker 4: He goes, well, look, Kiera. I was like, what do
[22:51] Speaker 4: you mean? And at that moment, a bus unloads and
[22:55] Speaker 4: a bunch of people just getting off of work are
[22:57] Speaker 4: getting off the bus with their suitcases and they're very like,
[23:00] Speaker 4: regimentedly going about their business as most of us do
[23:03] Speaker 4: on any given day, leaving work from the city and
[23:05] Speaker 4: getting off a bus. And he's like, these are mostly browns,
[23:07] Speaker 4: and that you know, a lot of people think brown
[23:09] Speaker 4: is a bad thing, but brown just it's just they're
[23:11] Speaker 4: just they're doing their purpose and they're serving their their
[23:14] Speaker 4: thing and they're doing what they need to do and
[23:16] Speaker 4: it's great and it's wonderful. And then there's whites and
[23:20] Speaker 4: there's gray and he was giving me some low down.
[23:23] Speaker 4: It was all happening and processing so quickly, and he's like,
[23:27] Speaker 4: but yeah, he goes like, there's not a ton of
[23:30] Speaker 4: blues and it's really wonderful. You know, when they contact
[23:34] Speaker 4: you and I'd like to show you more if you
[23:38] Speaker 4: want to come with me. I can take you to
[23:39] Speaker 4: the bat cave.
[23:40] Speaker 1: So the bat cave.
[23:42] Speaker 4: This is what he says, to the batcave. Now, remember
[23:44] Speaker 4: in Seattle, if you've ever visited, there's an underground city
[23:48] Speaker 4: right below. It begins like right below Kimyer's Square, and
[23:51] Speaker 4: it was where the city used to exist before they
[23:53] Speaker 4: had to elevate it because of whatever you know, geological
[23:57] Speaker 4: or other stuff of a one hundred years ago, pointing to
[24:00] Speaker 4: like an area down the way that's going to lead
[24:03] Speaker 4: to a place. It's going to lead to a place.
[24:05] Speaker 4: And you know what, Roz, I just got scared, and
[24:09] Speaker 4: I just I just said, thank you. I don't think
[24:14] Speaker 4: I can go to the bat cave to day goes
[24:15] Speaker 4: It's okay, no worries, whenever you're ready, And he just
[24:20] Speaker 4: saunters back across the square and like gave me a
[24:24] Speaker 4: Charlie Chaplin kind of wave. Didn't dance for a little bit.
[24:27] Speaker 4: I was sitting there contemplating, now, going, am I going
[24:29] Speaker 4: to regret that I didn't go to the back cave?
[24:31] Speaker 4: Should I do it? Should I do it? And then
[24:33] Speaker 4: he just disappeared and I never saw him again.
[24:36] Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to be in Seattle in a couple
[24:38] Speaker 2: of weeks and I'm gonna go look for this man
[24:41] Speaker 2: and I'll see what he says about the blues in
[24:44] Speaker 2: the back cave. This is crazy. So are you ready
[24:50] Speaker 2: now to know what that means?
[24:52] Speaker 4: Now? It's forty nine absolutely, and you know what's you
[24:56] Speaker 4: know what's what sucks about it, though, is the part
[24:59] Speaker 4: of me that is curious and as a believer and
[25:03] Speaker 4: wants to believe, want so badly to go and see
[25:08] Speaker 4: whatever the control center of the bat Cave is all about.
[25:11] Speaker 4: Whatever it is that I'm going to be illuminated with
[25:14] Speaker 4: sounds so incredibly fascinating to me. And then at the
[25:18] Speaker 4: same time I go, the pragmatist is like, yeah, what
[25:21] Speaker 4: if you go and you're just like, you're looking at
[25:23] Speaker 4: the hovel of a unhoused, unwell person who just has
[25:28] Speaker 4: dangling a bunch of pieces of trash. That is like,
[25:31] Speaker 4: welcome to the bat cave. And here is so I'm like,
[25:35] Speaker 4: I'm afraid of seeing the truth. I'm also afraid of
[25:41] Speaker 4: getting my hopes up and then being disappointed. And that's
[25:44] Speaker 4: been a theme my whole life and it's one of
[25:48] Speaker 4: the things I think that to me is the most
[25:49] Speaker 4: fascinating and scary and unifying, whether people care to admit
[25:56] Speaker 4: it or not, about why the beyond being the common
[26:01] Speaker 4: denominator for all of us. I mean, eventually, we're all
[26:03] Speaker 4: going to shed these mortal coils and we're going to
[26:06] Speaker 4: either just go fade to black, or we're going to
[26:09] Speaker 4: discover something else. We're going to get some kind of
[26:11] Speaker 4: answer or we're not. But it's like that's the stuff
[26:15] Speaker 4: that I still But right now I would have said, oh, sure,
[26:19] Speaker 4: let's go, because I feel like I can take care
[26:20] Speaker 4: of myself. I don't think this I got. I listened
[26:22] Speaker 4: to my instincts. I think everyone needs to learn how
[26:24] Speaker 4: to listen to their gut. Sometimes I ignore. It always
[26:27] Speaker 4: gets me in trouble when I ignore my gut. When
[26:29] Speaker 4: I listen to my gut, when I listen to my
[26:31] Speaker 4: little god voice, I'm safe. And that person in no
[26:35] Speaker 4: way was flagging any of my cautionary alarms.
[26:39] Speaker 2: Well maybe there will be another opportunity for you to
[26:43] Speaker 2: be contacted by this. Did you ever see blue lights, sir? Anything?
[26:49] Speaker 4: The only other experiences that I had, and a lot
[26:52] Speaker 4: of them were around that time. We're so drug affected
[26:58] Speaker 4: that I don't I don't I don't give them much agency,
[27:01] Speaker 4: and that's that's okay. Some people have had like drug fueled,
[27:04] Speaker 4: incredibly true prophetic experience. I mean, I'll say, you know, forever,
[27:10] Speaker 4: I'm twenty three years clean and sober. I don't use drugs,
[27:13] Speaker 4: alcohol or anything to this point other than good old fashioned,
[27:17] Speaker 4: you know, advilain, whatever my doctor thinks I need. But
[27:20] Speaker 4: I think that some of the things that I'm like,
[27:24] Speaker 4: not that they're not that they weren't true or real
[27:26] Speaker 4: to me at the time, but they're just they're always
[27:29] Speaker 4: they always have that like asterisk on them, like right,
[27:32] Speaker 4: and I was on a pound of mushrooms or I
[27:34] Speaker 4: was on, you know, a hit of acid. So I
[27:36] Speaker 4: think it's it's the stories when I was fully present
[27:39] Speaker 4: and clear to me are the ones I feel the
[27:41] Speaker 4: most sharing with, like people at large, because then it's
[27:45] Speaker 4: like you can say that I'm mentally, you know, psychotic
[27:49] Speaker 4: or something, I was having delusions. But other than that,
[27:53] Speaker 4: these are things that happened without any outside influence on
[27:57] Speaker 4: my brain.
[27:58] Speaker 1: But this man, Francis, it's like that.
[28:01] Speaker 4: It's wild ros that's real.
[28:04] Speaker 1: I don't know that.
[28:05] Speaker 2: It just means something something, something who knows what. Well,
[28:10] Speaker 2: let's change topics what about like psychics. Do you ever
[28:14] Speaker 2: go to them? Have you had any great experiences with them?
[28:18] Speaker 1: Are you one?
[28:20] Speaker 4: I'm not myself psychic. I believe that I have a
[28:24] Speaker 4: gift for storytelling. Yeah, I have a natural you know,
[28:29] Speaker 4: something in me that lends itself to the craft and
[28:32] Speaker 4: art and love of acting. I think there's certain things
[28:35] Speaker 4: about being a human that come naturally to me. There
[28:39] Speaker 4: are many things, frustratingly which don't, which I wish did,
[28:44] Speaker 4: because I feel like they seem like most people just get.
[28:48] Speaker 4: But that's okay. We're each built and constructed completely in
[28:52] Speaker 4: our own unique way. And I think there are people
[28:55] Speaker 4: that have a gift for sensorial perceptive experiences that of
[29:00] Speaker 4: us don't possess or is so underdeveloped within us that
[29:04] Speaker 4: it's not at a place where it can you catch
[29:07] Speaker 4: any of the spark. And so I, you know, beyond
[29:12] Speaker 4: what I'm able to see with my own eyes, it's
[29:15] Speaker 4: you know, I've never seen a human being fly. But
[29:18] Speaker 4: it's like I believe if someone to me has had
[29:21] Speaker 4: an experience like psychics, mediums, people with a perception and
[29:27] Speaker 4: an ability to perceive both time presence, you know, history, experience, imprints, echoes,
[29:40] Speaker 4: all of that to me is just it's science that
[29:43] Speaker 4: hasn't been scienced yet. It's just stuff that is still
[29:47] Speaker 4: you know, waiting to be run properly through a scientific method,
[29:51] Speaker 4: because I believe it's all really true. And I've seen
[29:55] Speaker 4: a couple of psychics that have been you know, I
[29:58] Speaker 4: don't think I've ever had an sperience where somebody hasn't
[30:02] Speaker 4: really given me some wonderful bit of intuitive insight into
[30:07] Speaker 4: something and awareness of something, and it's usually in their opinions.
[30:11] Speaker 4: They always feel like it's kind of myself showing things
[30:15] Speaker 4: to myself. I love connecting people with good psychics. I've
[30:19] Speaker 4: hired a number of them over the years. Like when
[30:21] Speaker 4: I'll have a gathering at my home, I always like
[30:23] Speaker 4: to have a tarot reader or you know, somebody that's
[30:27] Speaker 4: that can do readings, because I've had people I've never
[30:32] Speaker 4: had the experience, but I've had people walk out of
[30:35] Speaker 4: the room with really gifted you know, readers, and they're
[30:40] Speaker 4: just the look on their face is like Wow, they
[30:45] Speaker 4: just they've something really special just happened. Man, I am
[30:48] Speaker 4: open to it.
[30:50] Speaker 2: I haven't necessarily had like that, what like, I haven't
[30:56] Speaker 2: had that experience.
[30:57] Speaker 4: The Gong moment. Yeah, I haven't had the Gong moment.
[31:00] Speaker 2: But I've seen it. I've seen people have it. I
[31:03] Speaker 2: don't know what it is about me, but it hasn't happened. Also,
[31:06] Speaker 2: sometimes I wonder, I think there's you know, of course,
[31:09] Speaker 2: there's like real deal people that got some gift, and
[31:13] Speaker 2: then there's like a bunch of people that are just like,
[31:16] Speaker 2: who knows.
[31:16] Speaker 4: What, hustlers. Well, the hustlers ruined it for everybody, especially
[31:20] Speaker 4: during the movement, like the spiritualist movement. There's always going
[31:24] Speaker 4: to be those who are going to come in and
[31:25] Speaker 4: capitalize on, of course, something beautiful. So let's say cinema,
[31:31] Speaker 4: for example, had true magicians at work. Still does people
[31:37] Speaker 4: who conjure using the artistry of cinema truly magical, transformative,
[31:42] Speaker 4: transporting experiences that collectively just penetrate our hearts, minds, and souls.
[31:49] Speaker 4: And these artists find some way to make these things
[31:53] Speaker 4: happen and all of us go, oh my god, wow.
[31:56] Speaker 4: And when all of us go oh my god, wow,
[31:59] Speaker 4: the way we get to experience these things. We pull
[32:01] Speaker 4: out our wallets and we show up and we sit
[32:03] Speaker 4: in these churches of the theaters or on our couches
[32:05] Speaker 4: and we go on these journeys. Right. So there's, unfortunately,
[32:10] Speaker 4: by the necessity of capitalism, consumerism, all forms of consumptionism,
[32:19] Speaker 4: a supply and demand scenario where four thousand people standing
[32:26] Speaker 4: around the one person who's made the thing that is
[32:28] Speaker 4: really special, beautiful, wonderful, really transformative, really magical. They go,
[32:33] Speaker 4: oh my god, look how much money that thing made.
[32:35] Speaker 4: I don't really know how to do that thing. I
[32:37] Speaker 4: don't really understand how movies. I don't really care about
[32:41] Speaker 4: the magic of movies. But hell fuck, I can get
[32:45] Speaker 4: a bunch of rich people to give us money. We're
[32:46] Speaker 4: going to build a studio here, and we're going to
[32:48] Speaker 4: churn out as much as we possibly can to get
[32:50] Speaker 4: as many people in those seats and get as many
[32:51] Speaker 4: popcorn bucket salts. We can make as much money as
[32:53] Speaker 4: we possibly can so that we can get rich. And
[32:57] Speaker 4: people been doing that since they saw, Oh my god,
[33:00] Speaker 4: there's a real gifted healer. This person is incredible. They're
[33:03] Speaker 4: able to connect with the other side, with the future,
[33:06] Speaker 4: with the past. Wow, imagine how much money we could
[33:10] Speaker 4: get out of people if we died that. So thankfully,
[33:13] Speaker 4: people like Harry Houdini and others went around busting a
[33:16] Speaker 4: bunch of the byes ors. But I still believe at
[33:19] Speaker 4: the seed of that, at the heart of that, there
[33:21] Speaker 4: are those gifted ones walking around, and I think it's
[33:25] Speaker 4: undiscovered science have some to tap into something else. The
[33:29] Speaker 4: hucksters they ruin everything for everybody. I mean, you get it.
[33:33] Speaker 4: Car Like how many people like see something you're doing
[33:37] Speaker 4: and they go, oh, I want to do that, I
[33:39] Speaker 4: can do that, and they just want to jump on it.
[33:41] Speaker 4: Do they see a desire to connect with people? Do
[33:44] Speaker 4: they see a desire to like share stories and maybe
[33:47] Speaker 4: you know, get inside people, make them look at things
[33:49] Speaker 4: a little differently, like what you're doing. Or do they
[33:52] Speaker 4: go I wonder how much rostery this gets when they
[33:55] Speaker 4: you know, when there's an ad on there, we should
[33:57] Speaker 4: do a podcast about this. It's like it's crazy. That's
[34:01] Speaker 4: my little rant. Sorry everybody, I went on a little tirade.
[34:05] Speaker 1: No, I'm totally with yeah, some of them.
[34:08] Speaker 2: I think some of the people that try to be
[34:11] Speaker 2: a psychic, I think they're just really good at improv.
[34:14] Speaker 2: They know how to just sort of yes and and
[34:19] Speaker 2: pick up on Oh that person just got sad when
[34:22] Speaker 2: I when I said, does the color yellow mean anything?
[34:27] Speaker 2: To you, Oh, let's go with that, let's keep moving.
[34:30] Speaker 4: You know what, if you watch Late Night with the Devil,
[34:35] Speaker 4: there's a great example in the beginning of the film
[34:39] Speaker 4: when our psychic you know, is trying to do what's
[34:43] Speaker 4: basically a BS reading with somebody and then something real
[34:48] Speaker 4: starts to happen. And I love that moment in the
[34:51] Speaker 4: film because I was like, oh, that's so good. But
[34:53] Speaker 4: look at what's his name? Darren? You know, he can
[34:57] Speaker 4: get in a room and he can say that he
[34:58] Speaker 4: can read people have the crying, convincing them he's talking
[35:02] Speaker 4: to their grandma. And then he turns around and he goes,
[35:04] Speaker 4: that was all bullshit. This is how I was able
[35:07] Speaker 4: to get them there. This is how I was able
[35:08] Speaker 4: to use deduction and improv, you know, saying yes, who Darren, Oh,
[35:15] Speaker 4: come on help me? The guy who's he also does
[35:18] Speaker 4: he He had that really fascinating documentary called The Push
[35:23] Speaker 4: on Netflix a few years ago. Did you see that?
[35:26] Speaker 1: No?
[35:26] Speaker 4: It will blow your flipping lid ras. So Darren. I
[35:31] Speaker 4: want to say his name is Darren Anthony, but that's
[35:33] Speaker 4: not it. It's Darren I'm looking at, not Darren Cross. It's
[35:39] Speaker 4: not Darren Anthony, Darren Brown.
[35:42] Speaker 1: Darren Brown.
[35:43] Speaker 4: So Darren Brown. He did that. He had this hypothesis
[35:47] Speaker 4: that you know, group think and the pressure of the group.
[35:52] Speaker 4: His theory was that the power and pressure of a
[35:55] Speaker 4: large group dynamic against an individual can get a human
[35:58] Speaker 4: being to do anything, including to commit murder. And he
[36:04] Speaker 4: goes to prove this theory by giving himself one hour
[36:10] Speaker 4: with a person who doesn't know that they're being filmed
[36:13] Speaker 4: in an entirely set up scenario with a group dynamic,
[36:17] Speaker 4: which this person just thinks they're going to a party,
[36:20] Speaker 4: and within one hour he's His theory was that he
[36:24] Speaker 4: could take any person and get them to commit murder.
[36:28] Speaker 4: You've got to watch that. It's called the push.
[36:31] Speaker 3: Okay, I want to say that that sounds right.
[36:33] Speaker 4: But he also does a thing where he'll go with
[36:35] Speaker 4: it with like, let's say there's a psychic doing their
[36:38] Speaker 4: their like a show or readings where they're in front
[36:41] Speaker 4: of a crowd, and they go, is there's someone out
[36:42] Speaker 4: here with you know, a jay is significant? They pull
[36:45] Speaker 4: that person down and they do their thing with him.
[36:47] Speaker 4: He does that and then he goes, this is how
[36:50] Speaker 4: I did it, this, this, this, this, this right?
[36:55] Speaker 3: Are you a reincarnation person.
[36:58] Speaker 4: I'm an honestly roz, I'm an everything person except for
[37:05] Speaker 4: punishing God. That's the one that I've that I've made
[37:08] Speaker 4: peace with letting go. That was I was raised with
[37:10] Speaker 4: this idea that there's this like punishing Creator that we
[37:14] Speaker 4: have to stay in good graces with all the time
[37:16] Speaker 4: or else we're going to be abandoned. Because that's a
[37:20] Speaker 4: term that means a lot to me and my therapeutic
[37:23] Speaker 4: work as an adult, abandonment fears and anxieties, and I
[37:25] Speaker 4: think the earliest attachment I had to a loving, you know,
[37:30] Speaker 4: creator figure was also you know, shadowed by this idea
[37:34] Speaker 4: that if I didn't live up to their expectations or
[37:36] Speaker 4: if I didn't choose to do things a certain way,
[37:39] Speaker 4: it was you know, abandonment into punishment. So that's the
[37:43] Speaker 4: only thing I've been consciously, psychically, spiritually, and psychologically working
[37:50] Speaker 4: to untether myself from the potential of aliens, reincarnation, levitation,
[37:58] Speaker 4: mind melding. Everything is on the table. And so when
[38:03] Speaker 4: everything goes back to Josh, Josh said to me many
[38:07] Speaker 4: years ago, oh my gosh, this book changed my life.
[38:10] Speaker 4: It's called Many Lives, Many Masters. I was doing this
[38:13] Speaker 4: show last year called murder Bock, which I'm very proud of.
[38:17] Speaker 4: Everybody go watch it right now. It's on Apple and
[38:20] Speaker 4: Noma Doomsueney, who is my co star on the show,
[38:24] Speaker 4: and she plays the leader of our group who my
[38:27] Speaker 4: character's in love with. We would have these wonderful deep
[38:31] Speaker 4: conversations and we were talking about like philosophical beliefs, religious beliefs.
[38:36] Speaker 4: She said, Oh, my gosh, many lives, many masters. I
[38:39] Speaker 4: read this book and she was like the third person
[38:41] Speaker 4: within a week that brought it up. So I read
[38:44] Speaker 4: it because I was like, I got to read this.
[38:46] Speaker 4: Josh gave it to me. I never finished it, and
[38:47] Speaker 4: I got to read it, and it really it made
[38:50] Speaker 4: me think a lot about you know, is reincarnation a
[38:53] Speaker 4: part of our lives? Is it a part of my life?
[38:57] Speaker 4: I don't know, But could it be a part of
[38:59] Speaker 4: other people's lives? For sure? Does it have to be
[39:01] Speaker 4: a part of everyone's lives? I don't prescribe to that.
[39:04] Speaker 4: The only thing I think that happens to all of
[39:06] Speaker 4: us is we're born and we die, right, That's the
[39:09] Speaker 4: only thing that happens to all of us. Everything else
[39:12] Speaker 4: is like I could be so illuminated and elevated by
[39:16] Speaker 4: the teachings of the Qur'an, the bodies of Vata, you
[39:21] Speaker 4: name it, like the Bible. I don't know what I
[39:23] Speaker 4: could be totally moved into where I'm meant to be
[39:27] Speaker 4: in my alignment with what I'm on my journey to
[39:30] Speaker 4: do as a fall straight on atheist. That stuff, I
[39:34] Speaker 4: think is so specific to the individual.
[39:36] Speaker 3: Sometimes I think like maybe all of it is true.
[39:41] Speaker 2: Like you kind of pick on Earth which one is
[39:46] Speaker 2: for you, and then that works for you in terms
[39:49] Speaker 2: of like Heaven and everything. It's like, yeah, you go
[39:53] Speaker 2: to whichever one you believe in.
[39:55] Speaker 4: I would like to think that we pick. I think
[39:57] Speaker 4: sometimes a lot of people are not given a choice right,
[40:02] Speaker 4: and that makes me sad because I do want people
[40:05] Speaker 4: to have an opportunity I want to give, like for
[40:07] Speaker 4: my children. You know, I was raised in a very
[40:10] Speaker 4: specific faith, with a very specific dogma, with a very
[40:13] Speaker 4: specific way that you raise children, what you teach them,
[40:16] Speaker 4: how you raise them to have the same beliefs as you.
[40:21] Speaker 4: To me, beliefs like the value and importance of kindness,
[40:26] Speaker 4: of acceptance, of independence, independent thinking, of self resilience. Those
[40:32] Speaker 4: are the things that I would like to raise them,
[40:34] Speaker 4: to teach them. But when they asked me about my
[40:36] Speaker 4: thoughts on God, my thoughts on you know, who is Jesus?
[40:42] Speaker 4: I like sharing with them information without indoctrinating them into
[40:45] Speaker 4: my own beliefs, because I love the idea of them
[40:49] Speaker 4: coming to a belief system, because it's the path that
[40:53] Speaker 4: their soul's journey is on. I didn't get that choice
[40:58] Speaker 4: as a kid, because I was told this is what
[41:01] Speaker 4: we do. You believe this or you are you know,
[41:05] Speaker 4: you're abandoned and punished eternally. And I go, oh, my god,
[41:09] Speaker 4: what about the millions of Hindus or Buddhists or the
[41:13] Speaker 4: Jewish people or this, that and the other. So it's like, well,
[41:16] Speaker 4: they're all going to hell? And I couldn't. I couldn't.
[41:21] Speaker 4: It hurts so much. It still hurts to think about that,
[41:24] Speaker 4: you know, it hurts a lot. And so people who
[41:28] Speaker 4: adamantly feel that they need to raise a child with
[41:31] Speaker 4: a certain belief, it's like they're doing it because they
[41:35] Speaker 4: think they're doing what's best for the child. What I
[41:37] Speaker 4: believe is best for my children, raising them to be kind, independent,
[41:42] Speaker 4: self reliant people who can love and accept themselves. And
[41:47] Speaker 4: then hopefully. What the way that my spiritual practice involves prayer.
[41:51] Speaker 4: I do pray to my higher power, and I believe
[41:55] Speaker 4: in God, and I believe in the power of meditation
[41:59] Speaker 4: and mindfulness and mantra ing and magic service as an
[42:04] Speaker 4: act of removal from self pity, which is, you know,
[42:07] Speaker 4: often tied to my own suffering. Boy, we just went
[42:11] Speaker 4: all over the place. Sorry, ros, look at me. It's
[42:13] Speaker 4: the coffee.
[42:14] Speaker 1: No, it's great. What about cryptids?
[42:18] Speaker 4: So growing up in the Midwest, you know you deeply
[42:24] Speaker 4: want the bog creatures because the ozarks, like the ozark Howler,
[42:28] Speaker 4: was something I was raised with. They're not far from
[42:31] Speaker 4: where I grew up. Which one is that ozark Howler.
[42:35] Speaker 4: It's like a it's like a banshee ish kind of
[42:39] Speaker 4: hairy creature that is like half something, half monkey half
[42:45] Speaker 4: We don't know existing out in the wilds of the
[42:49] Speaker 4: because the ozarks are just like they go on. If
[42:51] Speaker 4: you go from Arkansas all the way up through Missouri,
[42:54] Speaker 4: it's just there's so much like unseen wild and wilderness,
[43:00] Speaker 4: and it's gorgeous and it's haunting and it's scary, and
[43:02] Speaker 4: the energy is really intense. I want to believe in Bigfoot.
[43:09] Speaker 4: I'm doing something right now actually that involves a cryptid.
[43:14] Speaker 4: I'm currently in the midst of production on a Holiday
[43:19] Speaker 4: of Horrors special with the Boulets, and I really wanted
[43:25] Speaker 4: to get to explore like some cryptid stuff with it.
[43:29] Speaker 4: And fortunately for me, my creative and other many things
[43:35] Speaker 4: partner Leah and her friend Jenny had written a piece
[43:37] Speaker 4: that really spoke to me. So, oh god, yeah, And
[43:42] Speaker 4: I would like some time for someone to write a book,
[43:45] Speaker 4: if you're out there and you've got the time, the energy,
[43:47] Speaker 4: the bandwidth and the passion for this, to do the
[43:49] Speaker 4: research and write a book about all the stuff that
[43:52] Speaker 4: people reported about that everyone said was lore or mythology
[43:57] Speaker 4: and eventually we proved was actually a real I know,
[44:00] Speaker 4: a lot of that stuff exists in the sea where
[44:02] Speaker 4: for hundreds of years they would describe this you know,
[44:06] Speaker 4: sea monster and it ultimately ended up being you know,
[44:10] Speaker 4: the narwhal or whatever. But it would be really cool
[44:13] Speaker 4: to have somebody be able to say, sure, we don't
[44:18] Speaker 4: have enough scientific evidence to irrefutably prove the presence of
[44:23] Speaker 4: X cryptid, but don't forget for a very long time
[44:26] Speaker 4: we didn't have the scientific proof to unquestionably verify the
[44:30] Speaker 4: existence of watch a watch and now we all just
[44:33] Speaker 4: think of that as like, oh, that's that's a thing, right.
[44:37] Speaker 2: Have you encountered synchronistic things, you know, like, have you
[44:41] Speaker 2: ever encountered things in life where you're like, this is
[44:45] Speaker 2: too yeah, this is too yeah. I mean, I guess,
[44:48] Speaker 2: I guess. Francis is sort of one of those things
[44:52] Speaker 2: where you go, how would you know that?
[44:55] Speaker 4: Here's what's tricky for me, And I really want to
[44:58] Speaker 4: present a trigger warning for anyone out there who has
[45:02] Speaker 4: struggled with bipolar, borderline personality, other you know, mental health issues, schizophrenia.
[45:11] Speaker 4: I am an individual who can sit here today and
[45:15] Speaker 4: tell you I've deeply struggled and continue to live with,
[45:20] Speaker 4: you know, psychiatric disorders and am in full treatment and
[45:26] Speaker 4: will probably be for life because it's a journey. And
[45:29] Speaker 4: thankfully I'm at a place now where most of my
[45:31] Speaker 4: days are cogent. I still struggle a lot, and I
[45:37] Speaker 4: still feel alone a lot, and it's why I'm grateful
[45:41] Speaker 4: to do stuff like talk to you and then have
[45:43] Speaker 4: a really small network of private, close friends and allies
[45:48] Speaker 4: on the journey, professionals and otherwise. This is all to
[45:51] Speaker 4: say there have been moments in my life where I've
[45:54] Speaker 4: been in the midst of a manic episode. And if
[45:56] Speaker 4: anyone out there is listening has experienced that, they know
[46:01] Speaker 4: how terrifying that can be, because what it feels like,
[46:06] Speaker 4: what it feels like in that space is that everything
[46:12] Speaker 4: is suddenly synchronized and coordinated in a way that isolates you,
[46:18] Speaker 4: as if this whole experience is suddenly a manipulation or
[46:23] Speaker 4: something around you, like there's a sign you're driving past
[46:27] Speaker 4: that says something, as somebody's on the radio saying another thing,
[46:32] Speaker 4: as you're having a thought about this anxiety that you're feeling.
[46:36] Speaker 4: And I've had moments like that that were not in
[46:40] Speaker 4: a place of wellness, that were so hard to process
[46:45] Speaker 4: and so hard to not completely come unwound over and
[46:50] Speaker 4: feel like I'm crazy. So with that and with the work,
[46:55] Speaker 4: I will also say, in conjunction with that, there have
[46:59] Speaker 4: afe hundred percent been moments in my life where the Universe, God,
[47:05] Speaker 4: my intuition, whatever you want to call it, maybe the
[47:08] Speaker 4: golden thread, all in alignment, an instinct about something said
[47:13] Speaker 4: to either with the positive, take this risk. There's a
[47:17] Speaker 4: little sign of hope, here's a little sign of encouragement.
[47:22] Speaker 4: Look at that as a beautiful sign of yourself being
[47:25] Speaker 4: open to the possibility of the yes and it really happening,
[47:29] Speaker 4: and that feeling so empowering. It's very different than the other.
[47:34] Speaker 4: And I wish I was more educated or able to
[47:38] Speaker 4: speak on these things in a way other than to
[47:41] Speaker 4: say I believe I've had both experiences and it's really
[47:45] Speaker 4: important for me and distilling, especially when things go wrong
[47:47] Speaker 4: where I get a synchronicity series of things makes me
[47:51] Speaker 4: feel like I'm oh gosh, I'm being punished or oh
[47:54] Speaker 4: my gosh, this is terrifying me, and then I have
[47:57] Speaker 4: to really breathe and relax and go. Sometimes coincidences do happen.
[48:02] Speaker 4: That's the law of chaos, that's the law of mathematics.
[48:05] Speaker 4: Sometimes my brain is looking for things when what it
[48:10] Speaker 4: needs to be doing is just being present. That's a
[48:13] Speaker 4: long answer to that question.
[48:15] Speaker 2: But sometimes like you can be present and it's like, wait,
[48:19] Speaker 2: why did that happen?
[48:20] Speaker 4: What did that mean? Yeah? I know, I know? What
[48:23] Speaker 4: does it mean?
[48:24] Speaker 2: Do you put any extra thought into like deja vous?
[48:30] Speaker 2: Do you go way this is? I remember I've already
[48:35] Speaker 2: thought this, or I don't.
[48:36] Speaker 4: Know, Yeah, is it past? Life. Is it inter dimensional something?
[48:41] Speaker 4: Is it a wave? I've often wondered, is that like
[48:43] Speaker 4: just an echo or a wave of like have we
[48:46] Speaker 4: done this and now we're trying to do it again
[48:49] Speaker 4: and do it a little better?
[48:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, my second chance?
[48:53] Speaker 4: Is this a little just a blip? Can the brain blip? Yeah?
[48:57] Speaker 4: I don't know. What do you think it is when
[48:58] Speaker 4: you get through jogu.
[49:00] Speaker 2: I think that you get like you get like a
[49:04] Speaker 2: little peak. Like I think that's why I think all
[49:06] Speaker 2: this stuff is. I don't want to actually know the
[49:09] Speaker 2: answers to anything. I just think it's fun to talk
[49:12] Speaker 2: about when we get like a little peak sometimes at
[49:16] Speaker 2: the other realm, where like I don't know, God or
[49:21] Speaker 2: whoever it is, is like, oh shit, they were't supposed
[49:24] Speaker 2: to see that. Like, you know, It's kind of like
[49:26] Speaker 2: when you get like when a company accidentally leaks a
[49:28] Speaker 2: new product or something. Oh delete, So then you just
[49:33] Speaker 2: like get like a little peak of it, and then
[49:36] Speaker 2: when it actually happens, then you go, oh.
[49:39] Speaker 3: Good, this this was supposed to happen.
[49:41] Speaker 2: This is how I interpret it. I go, oh, this
[49:44] Speaker 2: was supposed to happen because I thought about this already.
[49:47] Speaker 2: So I'm in the right place where I'm supposed to be.
[49:51] Speaker 2: This was kind of a plan the whole time for
[49:53] Speaker 2: me to end up here or to experience whatever this
[49:56] Speaker 2: thing is.
[49:57] Speaker 1: That's what I think.
[49:59] Speaker 4: I love that.
[50:00] Speaker 1: Who knows?
[50:01] Speaker 4: Who knows?
[50:02] Speaker 2: Wait, how long have we been doing this? Fifty two minutes?
[50:08] Speaker 2: How does this happen?
[50:10] Speaker 4: You know? So the part three, which is always either
[50:15] Speaker 4: the whole thing goes down in flames or if you
[50:18] Speaker 4: become historic, because in my opinion, now I've been literally
[50:23] Speaker 4: flapping my gums for fifty one minutes. I think I
[50:25] Speaker 4: gave you one minute to talk in the last hour.
[50:29] Speaker 2: Who cares these people hear about hear me talk with
[50:31] Speaker 2: my ideas way too much?
[50:34] Speaker 4: But like, I feel like part two we brought the groceries.
[50:37] Speaker 2: I can't get over the Francis story.
[50:41] Speaker 1: Were you planning to tell that?
[50:44] Speaker 4: No, I wasn't planning anything. When I come on with you,
[50:47] Speaker 4: I don't plan anything. I just go be as open
[50:51] Speaker 4: as you feel safe being today, and I felt safe
[50:54] Speaker 4: being open with you. You know.
[50:56] Speaker 2: I heard people talk about this being present stuff for
[50:59] Speaker 2: a while long time, and I was always like, yeah,
[51:03] Speaker 2: I don't know about that, And I don't know because
[51:05] Speaker 2: you know, I'm sober too, and I don't know if
[51:07] Speaker 2: like that was part of it too, was just like
[51:09] Speaker 2: not wanting to be pron I don't know, but I
[51:13] Speaker 2: would say the last like year or so, I have
[51:17] Speaker 2: gotten to this point where I am so obsessed with like,
[51:21] Speaker 2: I'm not going to prepare anything. I'm just going to
[51:23] Speaker 2: show up and whatever comes my way. Let's ride the way, baby,
[51:30] Speaker 2: And wow, it's been a fun way to live.
[51:34] Speaker 4: I look at the so many things I look at
[51:36] Speaker 4: through the lens of being an actor. The thing that
[51:39] Speaker 4: I really strive to do is do my homework, be prepared,
[51:43] Speaker 4: prepare my if it's dialect, physical work, character, backstory, all
[51:47] Speaker 4: of that. I think the preparation is very, very very important.
[51:51] Speaker 4: Make sure my lines are memorized, make sure I'm ready
[51:53] Speaker 4: to go. But what I don't want to do is
[51:56] Speaker 4: prepare the way I'm going to do something right, because
[52:01] Speaker 4: then I lose the ability to be present and to
[52:05] Speaker 4: experience the thing through that, and I learned that a
[52:08] Speaker 4: lot watching working with Alexander Skarsgard on Murder Bot. Not
[52:13] Speaker 4: only was a joy because I just got to look
[52:14] Speaker 4: at his incredible face and body every day, Sorry Alexander,
[52:19] Speaker 4: but it was also because every take was a new thing.
[52:22] Speaker 4: He never rehashed if we nailed something on a certain arc,
[52:26] Speaker 4: a certain line, a certain moment the take before, unless
[52:30] Speaker 4: the director specifically said, oh, can we get that again
[52:34] Speaker 4: from this angle, which he would do perfectly. Every take
[52:37] Speaker 4: was a brand new experience every fucking take. That to
[52:42] Speaker 4: me is courage. That to me is wow. I want
[52:45] Speaker 4: to show up every day like that, Like I have
[52:47] Speaker 4: my due diligence, I do my parameditation, I go to
[52:50] Speaker 4: my you know, meetings, I you know, do certain things
[52:55] Speaker 4: that are part of my mental health routine. But then
[52:58] Speaker 4: I want to just be present and not and plan everything.
[53:01] Speaker 1: Well.
[53:01] Speaker 2: I keep thinking of my life like I enjoy it
[53:05] Speaker 2: being like structured improv like uh Reno nine to one
[53:10] Speaker 2: one or Curb your Enthusiasm. It's like we know where
[53:14] Speaker 2: each scene, what certain things you have to.
[53:17] Speaker 3: Hit on in life.
[53:19] Speaker 2: Okay, I do know I need to like exercise at
[53:22] Speaker 2: this point or whatever.
[53:23] Speaker 1: Everything else.
[53:24] Speaker 2: You just like whatever comes your way, you listen, you respond,
[53:29] Speaker 2: you know who knows where it'll lead you.
[53:33] Speaker 4: Yep.
[53:34] Speaker 2: So what's all the stuff you want us to to see?
[53:38] Speaker 4: Okay, listen. So there's a beautiful movie that's from Mike
[53:43] Speaker 4: Flanagan called The Life of Chuck so cool. It's a
[53:46] Speaker 4: beautiful film. It's based on the Stephen King story and
[53:50] Speaker 4: I have a wonderful opportunity in it to chew on
[53:54] Speaker 4: some of Mike's incredible dialogue. And then murder Bot is
[53:59] Speaker 4: currently on Apple. It is a series that is so wonderful,
[54:04] Speaker 4: based on a book, a series of books by Martha
[54:07] Speaker 4: Wells called the murder Bot Diaries. Alexander scars Guard plays
[54:10] Speaker 4: a sec unit, this you know, non binary sum of flesh,
[54:15] Speaker 4: some machines, security unit, this construct that has become conscious,
[54:21] Speaker 4: and I'm part of the little team of scientists that
[54:25] Speaker 4: it is meant to secure and keep safe on this planet.
[54:28] Speaker 4: And it's a really wonderful show that pushes a lot
[54:30] Speaker 4: of incredible boundaries and it's still very funny, very light,
[54:34] Speaker 4: very human. I love it. It's got, oh my gosh everything,
[54:39] Speaker 4: it's got thrupples, it's got a matriarchal leadership, it's got
[54:45] Speaker 4: Alexander's scars Guard, it's got me being an annoying ass.
[54:52] Speaker 4: And then, you know, I write a lot. I'm very
[54:55] Speaker 4: proud of the work of being able to achieve it,
[54:57] Speaker 4: especially in the comic book space. So if you get
[54:59] Speaker 4: a chance, check out my Creature Commando series at DC.
[55:03] Speaker 4: I've got a series called Nights Versus Samurai at Image.
[55:06] Speaker 4: Some really exciting new books coming. We're going to announce
[55:09] Speaker 4: a comic con and then be sure to stay tuned
[55:12] Speaker 4: for the lay Brothers Holiday of Horror special that I'll
[55:16] Speaker 4: be starring in and helping create with them.
[55:20] Speaker 2: So great, Honestly, the easiest thing you could ever do.
[55:25] Speaker 2: I swear to god, if you just told like a theater,
[55:28] Speaker 2: can I just have like an hour and a half
[55:31] Speaker 2: and then you just start telling stories, or if you
[55:34] Speaker 2: just had the audience be like, tell us one about this,
[55:37] Speaker 2: Oh my god, it would be so successful. You're such
[55:41] Speaker 2: a good storyteller. Thank you, ros I'm very impressed. I'm
[55:45] Speaker 2: very pleased by this episode.
[55:48] Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time.
[55:51] Speaker 4: Thank you, my fiend, my amazing raws. Well, that's the thing. Now,
[55:56] Speaker 4: it's happening, and I'm.
[55:58] Speaker 2: Trying to get invited to one of these tarot reading
[56:00] Speaker 2: haunted doll parties that you have.
[56:03] Speaker 4: You got it, You're there the next one that I throw.
[56:06] Speaker 1: Put me on the list.
[56:07] Speaker 4: You're on the list. You are on the.
[56:09] Speaker 1: List, all right. Well, that's it.
[56:11] Speaker 4: That's it. Thanks Ron, Thank you so much to David.
[56:19] Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, he's good.
[56:23] Speaker 2: He's real good at ghosted that's for sure. Hopefully we
[56:28] Speaker 2: can get him to come back on another time. Thanks
[56:31] Speaker 2: for listening. I love you all, both living and dead.
[56:36] Speaker 2: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't
[56:38] Speaker 2: haunt me came back. This has been an exactly right production.
[56:50] Speaker 2: Want to share your paranormal experience on the podcast. I
[56:54] Speaker 2: read stories out loud and sometimes I'll even call you,
[56:58] Speaker 2: so email me at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com.
[57:02] Speaker 2: You can send a DM or voice message to the
[57:04] Speaker 2: show's instagram at ghosted by Roz. Give us a follow
[57:08] Speaker 2: while you're there, and follow me Roz on Instagram at
[57:13] Speaker 2: Roz Hernandez and on TikTok and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez.
[57:18] Speaker 2: My senior producer is the startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer
[57:23] Speaker 2: is the alarming Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed and
[57:28] Speaker 2: sound designed by the Eerie Edson Choi. My guest booker
[57:33] Speaker 2: is the petrifying Patrick Kuttner. My theme music is by
[57:37] Speaker 2: the spine Chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon. Artwork by the spooky
[57:44] Speaker 2: Vanessa Lilac, photography by the terrifying Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced
[57:51] Speaker 2: by the chilling Karen Kilgareff, the spooky Georgia hart Stark,
[57:58] Speaker 2: and the frightening Danielle Kramer. Listen to Ghosted by Roz
[58:03] Speaker 2: Hernandez on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
[58:09] Speaker 2: get your podcasts.

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