# Earn Your Leisure Lecture at Wharton ft Andre Iguodala & Evan Turner The Secrets to Success

An episode of [Earn Your Leisure](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1450211392), 1 Sep 2026, 51 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/8dbc4f54-a337-4481-9ef2-b355012b0a3d/c3eebdb2-4340-4bd6-a53a-b4b800c262cc/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=eac4c628-29cb-469a-b5c8-b355012b0a48

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Africa is one of the few, it's a continent broken up,
[0:03] Speaker 1: but it's really, we look at it as a country,
[0:05] Speaker 1: us as African Americans. Like I think of Africa, I
[0:08] Speaker 1: don't think of it as countries. I think of it
[0:09] Speaker 1: as a bunch of states, but it should be a country.
[0:12] Speaker 1: We're going to talk about group economics. Imagine if Africa
[0:14] Speaker 1: had one currency. But just understanding that, you know, the
[0:17] Speaker 1: complexities of Africa, even Nigeria, 270 million people, the oil
[0:22] Speaker 1: comes from there. You know, I had a great understanding
[0:24] Speaker 1: of Nigeria when I went. 2019, the oil that comes
[0:28] Speaker 1: from Africa, but they have no refineries. They export their
[0:32] Speaker 1: oil and then they buy back gas because they don't
[0:35] Speaker 1: have refineries. They can build the infrastructure with their wealth.
[0:38] Speaker 1: That let me know everything I needed to know in
[0:40] Speaker 1: terms of, oh, I know exactly what's going on.
[0:45] Speaker 2: Oh, there we go.
[0:46] Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
[0:46] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. You guys chose the music?
[0:53] Speaker 4: So first and foremost, we want to thank warden for
[0:56] Speaker 4: having us this is uh something that we definitely don't
[0:59] Speaker 4: take lightly you know it's been a tremendous journey for
[1:01] Speaker 4: us and this is another milestone that we get to
[1:04] Speaker 4: you know check off the bucket list so this is
[1:06] Speaker 4: going to be fun and to do with these guys
[1:08] Speaker 4: we've been talking for the last hour so this is
[1:10] Speaker 4: going to be a definitely fun conversation for sure um
[1:13] Speaker 4: but before we want to start just wanted to say
[1:15] Speaker 4: thank you really appreciate it all right um so let's
[1:19] Speaker 4: let's get into it you guys want to say anything
[1:21] Speaker 4: before we start.
[1:22] Speaker 3: I mean i'm just in the presence of greatness so Yes. No, no.
[1:29] Speaker 3: Thank you all.
[1:30] Speaker 2: That's all.
[1:30] Speaker 1: Just thank you all for allowing us to be here.
[1:32] Speaker 1: We want to have a great conversation. Hopefully you take
[1:35] Speaker 1: something from this. But most importantly, I know we say
[1:38] Speaker 1: this a lot and it sounds cliche. Let's all connect.
[1:43] Speaker 3: Let's find a way for us to build.
[1:45] Speaker 1: You know, I have a lot going on and there
[1:48] Speaker 1: will always be recorded.
[1:53] Speaker 5: I'm not sure if you noticed.
[1:54] Speaker 3: There are some job openings.
[1:56] Speaker 1: That's all I'm trying to say. Without saying, I'm going
[1:58] Speaker 1: to fire people.
[2:01] Speaker 5: Clapping up for job openings. It's like Oprah. You got
[2:05] Speaker 5: a job. Shout out to the cadets. They got a job.
[2:10] Speaker 5: For sure.
[2:14] Speaker 2: There's a lot of cadets in here. I didn't know
[2:16] Speaker 2: where I was at. Getting ready for war. Hopefully not.
[2:25] Speaker 5: Perhaps not.
[2:26] Speaker 6: Maybe.
[2:29] Speaker 2: So let's get into it.
[2:30] Speaker 4: I know we're going to, you know, ask each other questions,
[2:33] Speaker 4: but I want to ask you guys a question. How
[2:36] Speaker 4: did this partnership come together? You guys obviously, you know,
[2:39] Speaker 4: played in the league and that's a brotherhood. But now
[2:43] Speaker 4: you have a different brotherhood in business and in, you know,
[2:46] Speaker 4: new age media communication.
[2:48] Speaker 2: So how did this partnership come together with you guys?
[2:52] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, he's he's a great storyteller in terms
[2:55] Speaker 1: of like how we actually met. And so I'll do
[2:59] Speaker 1: Tarantino style and I'll go later and then he'll go
[3:02] Speaker 1: back in time. But essentially, you know, with the media part,
[3:06] Speaker 1: you know, we we have such similar, you know, viewpoints
[3:13] Speaker 1: of the world and the things we see. But I
[3:15] Speaker 1: think we speak to it differently. I mean, I think
[3:17] Speaker 1: it's it's communicated to the masses differently.
[3:22] Speaker 3: I have.
[3:25] Speaker 1: The folks that I can speak to and then he
[3:27] Speaker 1: has the folks that he can speak to and we
[3:29] Speaker 1: feel like we can cover a lot of ground. But
[3:33] Speaker 1: what we were seeing is just only your own IP
[3:36] Speaker 1: and understanding the power behind it. Growing up, I think
[3:41] Speaker 1: all we had was Bob Johnson and BET. And there's
[3:46] Speaker 1: been a lot of conversation behind that in terms of
[3:51] Speaker 1: You know, Jay-Z's doing it now. You know, we're building
[3:53] Speaker 1: up our own properties. You know, we're talking about Rihanna
[3:57] Speaker 1: and Fenty outside. We're talking about a lot of NBA
[4:00] Speaker 1: athletes with underwear lines. We're talking about the Skims deal
[4:04] Speaker 1: with the NBA. And I've had a lot of conversation.
[4:07] Speaker 1: We can talk about this later in terms of what
[4:10] Speaker 1: do we do with those properties once we build them
[4:12] Speaker 1: up because there's a lot of– the feedback can be
[4:17] Speaker 1: negative sometimes if we sell it. But then I also heard, well,
[4:21] Speaker 1: isn't that the purpose to IPO? And I think you've
[4:25] Speaker 1: done an incredible job of enlightening your listeners, which is
[4:30] Speaker 1: our community in terms of participating in public companies. And so, yes,
[4:36] Speaker 1: we should go out and reap the fruits of our
[4:38] Speaker 1: labor in terms of what we're building. But when we
[4:41] Speaker 1: do go public, like our people can participate and that's
[4:44] Speaker 1: how you sell it. You know, and so there's not
[4:46] Speaker 1: that negative connotation from behind it coming from that. And
[4:50] Speaker 1: so with us, too, we have conversations like this all
[4:52] Speaker 1: the time. And that's why we chose to go out.
[4:55] Speaker 1: And as you know, I have a deal with ESPN
[4:58] Speaker 1: and ETS had deals that he's done in the media space.
[5:02] Speaker 1: And so we can use those platforms to leverage, to
[5:05] Speaker 1: raise our profile. But then we have our own property
[5:09] Speaker 1: that we can go out and we can try to
[5:11] Speaker 1: scale and go deeper into our conversations and to our
[5:15] Speaker 1: listeners and kind of give them some insights on our
[5:18] Speaker 1: minds and how we got to where we are having success,
[5:22] Speaker 1: not just on the court, but off the court.
[5:25] Speaker 6: And just to go further into that, you know, myself
[5:27] Speaker 6: and Jerry, we met like back in 09. So he
[5:30] Speaker 6: was in a league. I was getting ready to go
[5:33] Speaker 6: into my last year of college and join a league.
[5:35] Speaker 6: So when I walked into the gym in Chicago, we
[5:39] Speaker 6: were able to, you know, join, make a friendship. A
[5:41] Speaker 6: year later, I get drafted to the Sixers. I was
[5:44] Speaker 6: his rookie. And, you know, he was, A vet to me.
[5:48] Speaker 6: So we kind of had our ups and downs.
[5:49] Speaker 3: Thank you for being nice.
[5:52] Speaker 5: Very kind.
[5:52] Speaker 6: As a vet rookie. And, you know, our first five
[5:55] Speaker 6: or six months was kind of rocky. But eventually we
[5:57] Speaker 6: realized we were kind of the same individual, the same mindset.
[6:01] Speaker 6: And I think that's where the friendship grew. So once
[6:03] Speaker 6: he left Philly and we went through our career, we
[6:06] Speaker 6: stayed connected and stayed locked. And over time I got
[6:08] Speaker 6: offers for different media outlets and different shows. But I
[6:12] Speaker 6: really just took my time to really try to formulate
[6:15] Speaker 6: it and make it the most organic. And I think
[6:18] Speaker 6: the number one thing is trying to find people who
[6:20] Speaker 6: you relate to and, most importantly, who support you. And
[6:23] Speaker 6: that's how Point 4 started. And, you know, just for myself,
[6:27] Speaker 6: after being in Philly, such a tough media market, one
[6:30] Speaker 6: thing that I really put priority on is getting my
[6:34] Speaker 6: own story out there and telling my own narrative and,
[6:37] Speaker 6: you know, telling the narrative from the athlete that someone
[6:39] Speaker 6: gets mixed up. Some of the best people I ever
[6:41] Speaker 6: met were in the NBA, and some of the smartest
[6:43] Speaker 6: people I ever met were in the NBA. And to
[6:46] Speaker 6: reach that feat, it's no small task. And I think
[6:49] Speaker 6: to tell that story from, you know, a super accomplished
[6:56] Speaker 6: individual like Dre or, you know, seeing things like myself really,
[7:00] Speaker 6: you know, open up the market and spread the narrative
[7:02] Speaker 6: for what athletes can be. And, you know, three years
[7:05] Speaker 6: ago when we started, it was a small conversation to
[7:08] Speaker 6: the point now we're meeting with billionaires and some of
[7:11] Speaker 6: the top people and, you know, breaking award and talking to,
[7:14] Speaker 6: you know, the future minds. So, it's been a cool
[7:17] Speaker 6: thing and it's been fun.
[7:19] Speaker 5: That's pretty dope.
[7:20] Speaker 7: I've always wanted this because where you land in the
[7:23] Speaker 7: league is important. Obviously you got to start in Philly,
[7:26] Speaker 7: but branding is something that has shifted a little bit, right?
[7:29] Speaker 7: When you came in the league out of Arizona, you
[7:31] Speaker 7: out of Ohio state, there wasn't a focus on making
[7:34] Speaker 7: the individual, the person like the star, right? Like we
[7:37] Speaker 7: had a few stars and brands got behind it, but
[7:39] Speaker 7: everybody didn't have their own individual situation.
[7:41] Speaker 5: So, I wonder where did that shift for you guys, right?
[7:45] Speaker 7: Was it the move to go to state where now
[7:48] Speaker 7: you're in an area, Silicon Valley in particular, where the
[7:51] Speaker 7: conversation outside of basketball is happening and you're privy to
[7:56] Speaker 7: it and now starting to take that information and applying it?
[7:58] Speaker 7: And did that relationship with him continue? Right now you're
[8:01] Speaker 7: learning things, but you're not on the same team. Hey,
[8:04] Speaker 7: let me put you up on some game.
[8:06] Speaker 5: No, for sure.
[8:06] Speaker 1: It's interesting now, they think they're too young. putting their
[8:12] Speaker 1: brands together. I think you need to show your excellence
[8:17] Speaker 1: on the court first. And that's where you really establish yourself.
[8:22] Speaker 1: I think it's the inverse effect has happened where you
[8:25] Speaker 1: got a kid with a brand. And I'm like, well, wait,
[8:28] Speaker 1: why do you have a brand? Oh, you play basketball.
[8:32] Speaker 1: As opposed to he's one of the best at what
[8:35] Speaker 1: he does. And I think as technology's gotten better, And
[8:40] Speaker 1: with making sports more valuable is you can get closer
[8:43] Speaker 1: to the athlete than ever. And that actual individual athlete
[8:47] Speaker 1: is B2C where I can actually touch my fans. Like
[8:53] Speaker 1: I can get close to them like they can see me.
[8:55] Speaker 1: And before it was only your superstars. We call them
[8:57] Speaker 1: your signature guys who had their own shoes. Well, now
[9:00] Speaker 1: we were just talking about a guy in the back
[9:02] Speaker 1: who was at the all white party, but he's making
[9:05] Speaker 1: his presence felt and people identify him. although he may
[9:09] Speaker 1: not be a household name. And so even if you're
[9:14] Speaker 1: the ninth man on the team, you still can have
[9:17] Speaker 1: a brand. But you can make yourself the best ninth
[9:20] Speaker 1: man in the NBA. Like, make your presence on the
[9:24] Speaker 1: court first. And I think that's where it's changed as
[9:27] Speaker 1: time has gone on. And I was fortunate enough to
[9:32] Speaker 1: have the same agent as Kobe Bryant, so I was
[9:34] Speaker 1: able to see how Kobe was moving And so that's
[9:36] Speaker 1: what led me to understand, like, all right, I got
[9:38] Speaker 1: to do it on the court first, do it on
[9:39] Speaker 1: the court first. But now these kids are getting smarter.
[9:42] Speaker 1: It's just they have to make sure they take care of,
[9:44] Speaker 1: you know, what they have going on on the court.
[9:46] Speaker 1: And going to debate was amazing. But my business partner, Rudy,
[9:51] Speaker 1: who's in here right now, we were talking about Silicon
[9:55] Speaker 1: Valley years before I got there.
[9:58] Speaker 3: Just didn't know that I would be. there.
[10:00] Speaker 1: But when the opportunity came, that was a part of
[10:02] Speaker 1: the strategy. When I got into free agency, the Warriors
[10:06] Speaker 1: didn't have cap space. And I actually had a meeting
[10:09] Speaker 1: with them. And I'll never forget. I had a meeting
[10:13] Speaker 1: with New Orleans. Sacramento offered me an amazing deal. it
[10:19] Speaker 1: was damn near double the deal I took. Like it
[10:21] Speaker 1: was a lot, but I had to sign it within
[10:26] Speaker 1: like five minutes. And he was like, the owner was like, Andre,
[10:31] Speaker 1: you're the future. You're, you're, you're Kings 2.0.
[10:34] Speaker 3: Incredible. And I still have a great relationship with him
[10:37] Speaker 3: because the.
[10:38] Speaker 1: Vision that I took to the Warriors, he actually wanted
[10:40] Speaker 1: me to bring that vision to the Kings. He actually
[10:42] Speaker 1: saw it. And, and I've never spoken that. And he
[10:45] Speaker 1: deserves a lot of credit. He saw that like, listen,
[10:47] Speaker 1: you're the blueprint. for what the NBA player should be
[10:51] Speaker 1: in terms of your business. Cause he came from the warriors.
[10:53] Speaker 1: So he saw it, but he didn't know I had
[10:55] Speaker 1: a meeting with the warriors because the warriors had no
[10:57] Speaker 1: cap space, but I actually set up a meeting with
[10:59] Speaker 1: the warriors. They were like the fourth team I met
[11:01] Speaker 1: with that day. And it was Mark Jackson. It was
[11:04] Speaker 1: Joe Lake up and they had two execs in there.
[11:08] Speaker 1: And they said, Andre, we appreciate you inviting us in,
[11:12] Speaker 1: you know, just kind of know why you wanted us
[11:14] Speaker 1: to come in knowing that we don't have cap space.
[11:16] Speaker 1: And then I just broke down why I wanted to
[11:17] Speaker 1: play for them. Like, Hey, Like, I see it in
[11:20] Speaker 1: Steph Curry. We just lost to them. Steph wasn't Steph,
[11:23] Speaker 1: but I see it. And you got this kid I
[11:25] Speaker 1: had to guard named Clay Thompson. I never heard of
[11:27] Speaker 1: this kid, but this kid can shoot it like none other.
[11:32] Speaker 1: I didn't tell them that I had been following Silicon Valley,
[11:35] Speaker 1: but I said there's some business things that I'm trying
[11:36] Speaker 1: to figure out.
[11:38] Speaker 3: It was in the back of my mind.
[11:39] Speaker 1: And they were like, well, we appreciate it, and we
[11:42] Speaker 1: appreciate how you feel about our organization, but there's nothing
[11:44] Speaker 1: we can do. But my agent and their GM, who
[11:48] Speaker 1: was there, Bob Myers, they used to work together at
[11:51] Speaker 1: the same agency. Dwight Howard was stalling one weekend. I
[11:57] Speaker 1: was going to sign with the Dallas Mavericks on like
[11:59] Speaker 1: a Friday. And Mark Cuban is called and said, would
[12:01] Speaker 1: Dwight Howard push back his decision to Monday? So you
[12:05] Speaker 1: got to wait. My agent and the Warriors GM figured
[12:10] Speaker 1: out like a trade. situation like Richard Jefferson will go
[12:13] Speaker 1: here two other players go here opens up cap space
[12:17] Speaker 1: we can get it done and then sometimes it's like
[12:19] Speaker 1: you know why do you believe in our power like
[12:21] Speaker 1: some things just work out for the reasons they're supposed
[12:23] Speaker 1: to work out and boom it worked out crazy and
[12:27] Speaker 1: then you know the rest is history.
[12:30] Speaker 4: No you never know you never know lead with intent
[12:34] Speaker 4: so I want to fast forward it a little bit
[12:36] Speaker 4: and Dre I know obviously we'll talk about your role
[12:39] Speaker 4: with the NBA but NBA PA But I'm interested to
[12:42] Speaker 4: know your idea and what the vision is for NBA
[12:46] Speaker 4: basketball on the continent of Africa.
[12:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, some interesting developments have happened there recently. I
[12:53] Speaker 1: know the head of NBA Africa just stepped down. And so,
[12:58] Speaker 1: you know, Africa is one of those. I have to
[13:01] Speaker 1: speak different now with the role I have.
[13:06] Speaker 3: E.T.
[13:07] Speaker 1: Has Evan has, you know, allowed me the ability to
[13:11] Speaker 1: really express myself and he hates it when I'm, I'm PC. Um,
[13:15] Speaker 1: but I think he's, he's starting to understand, you know,
[13:19] Speaker 1: the power of the voice, you know, um, and that's
[13:22] Speaker 1: why I love him next to me cause he can
[13:24] Speaker 1: just speak. Um, but Africa historically, not like the last 10,
[13:31] Speaker 1: 20 years, I'm talking about the history of humanity, um,
[13:35] Speaker 1: in terms of, They have, what, 70, 80% of the
[13:39] Speaker 1: world's resources? And then how it's been taken advantage of,
[13:43] Speaker 1: the human capital, how that's been taken advantage of. You know,
[13:46] Speaker 1: I was just listening to a speech not too long ago,
[13:48] Speaker 1: like how old is Nigeria in terms of the actual nation?
[13:51] Speaker 3: In the 60s?
[13:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's like 70s now.
[13:55] Speaker 5: 70s, right.
[13:56] Speaker 2: Still a relatively young country, yeah.
[13:59] Speaker 5: Very, very, very young. Niger boy.
[14:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[14:06] Speaker 5: The Naja boys are here.
[14:07] Speaker 3: Yes.
[14:09] Speaker 5: Chop off rice for lunch.
[14:12] Speaker 1: And yes, my father is Nigerian, Benin City, adult. And
[14:19] Speaker 1: Africa is one of the few, it's a continent broken up,
[14:26] Speaker 1: but it's really, we look at it as a country,
[14:29] Speaker 1: us as African Americans. Like I think of Africa, I
[14:31] Speaker 1: don't think of it as countries. I think of it
[14:33] Speaker 1: as a bunch of states, but it should be a country. And,
[14:36] Speaker 1: you know, we're going to talk about group economics. Imagine
[14:39] Speaker 1: if Africa had one currency. But now I can get
[14:45] Speaker 1: in trouble if I say that. But just understanding that,
[14:49] Speaker 1: you know, the complexities of Africa, even Nigeria, 270 million people,
[14:55] Speaker 1: the oil comes from there. You know, I had a
[14:57] Speaker 1: great understanding of Nigeria when I went 2019 and the
[15:04] Speaker 1: oil that comes from Africa.
[15:06] Speaker 3: But they have no refineries. And so they, they export
[15:11] Speaker 3: their oil and then they.
[15:12] Speaker 1: Buy back gas because they don't have refineries, but they
[15:17] Speaker 1: can build the infrastructure with their wealth. But that led me,
[15:20] Speaker 1: that led me know everything I needed to know in
[15:23] Speaker 1: terms of, Oh, I know exactly what's going on. And
[15:26] Speaker 1: so with NBA Africa, we're seeing a lot of talent
[15:30] Speaker 1: come from Africa, you know, Pascal Siakam, Giannis is Nigerian,
[15:36] Speaker 1: Joel and B, you know, we got MVPs now.
[15:39] Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is.
[15:43] Speaker 1: They probably, maybe I get mad at me, but there's
[15:45] Speaker 1: NBA Africa, there's NBA China, right? But the players, we
[15:52] Speaker 1: only participate in the revenue from NBA America. And so there's,
[16:00] Speaker 1: there's some things that need to be worked on from
[16:03] Speaker 1: that perspective. but that's something that's like near and dear
[16:07] Speaker 1: to me. So my eyes are constantly on it. I
[16:09] Speaker 1: sat on the board of a publicly traded company, um,
[16:11] Speaker 1: that was based in, uh, Africa. And we had talks
[16:17] Speaker 1: in terms of like sponsoring the, uh, NBA Africa team.
[16:21] Speaker 1: And so my, and then a lot of players are involved. Um,
[16:24] Speaker 1: Lou Aldane, close friend of mine, uh, not close enough,
[16:28] Speaker 1: but I look up to him in terms of like
[16:30] Speaker 1: what he's been able to build a portfolio has been
[16:31] Speaker 1: able to build, um, what he's done with, uh, What
[16:35] Speaker 1: team did he have?
[16:35] Speaker 3: They made the Olympics. Sudan. Sudan.
[16:39] Speaker 2: I think it's South Sudan.
[16:40] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[16:41] Speaker 5: Royal Ivy.
[16:42] Speaker 1: We had Royal Ivy, who was my teammate here. He
[16:44] Speaker 1: was the head coach. He's doing some amazing things. Basketball
[16:51] Speaker 1: without borders. We have a lot of players that participated
[16:55] Speaker 1: in that as kids in the NBA. And so we're seeing,
[16:58] Speaker 1: you know, we talk about building pipelines, right? We're talking
[17:00] Speaker 1: about giving out jobs. and you know, just controlling or
[17:04] Speaker 1: not controlling, but raising your talent. And so it's, it's,
[17:07] Speaker 1: it's on my, it's on my radar. Um, and we've
[17:10] Speaker 1: been having a lot of conversations in terms of like,
[17:12] Speaker 1: how do you own a part of the business that you, you,
[17:16] Speaker 1: you know, you're, you, you are the reason why the
[17:19] Speaker 1: business exists and athletes have never been able to participate in,
[17:23] Speaker 1: you know, uh, the value increase of NBA teams. You
[17:27] Speaker 1: talk about, uh, ghost or phantom shares. I've had some
[17:30] Speaker 1: interesting conversations about that.
[17:32] Speaker 3: Um, I like y'all. Y'all making me reveal a whole lot.
[17:36] Speaker 6: But seriously, you guys talk about brands and you talk
[17:38] Speaker 6: about Andre or even, you know, a brand I was
[17:40] Speaker 6: able to have from the NBA. How did you guys, again,
[17:43] Speaker 6: when you start your brand to, you know, now you have,
[17:46] Speaker 6: you know, festivals and people following you all over the world.
[17:49] Speaker 3: 1.4 million subscribers. Yeah.
[17:51] Speaker 5: I mean, that's actually crazy. Y'all got it out the basement.
[17:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.
[17:58] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:59] Speaker 7: I mean, the origin story really is formatted in purpose,
[18:02] Speaker 7: to be honest with you.
[18:04] Speaker 5: His career was as a financial advisor. I was a teacher.
[18:08] Speaker 5: We had an opportunity. You know, every summer I took
[18:11] Speaker 5: kids from my neighborhood and they were part of this program.
[18:14] Speaker 7: We were teaching them about the things that they missed
[18:16] Speaker 7: in the 10 months of school.
[18:17] Speaker 3: Right.
[18:17] Speaker 5: So everybody goes to school and they're like, I don't
[18:20] Speaker 5: remember anything. I didn't learn anything. You ask your kid,
[18:22] Speaker 5: what'd you learn today? Nothing.
[18:23] Speaker 7: Right.
[18:23] Speaker 3: Right.
[18:24] Speaker 7: And so it was like I felt very complicit in that.
[18:27] Speaker 7: If kids are going to school, I'm a teacher.
[18:28] Speaker 5: They're learning nothing. I'm not doing my job, but I'm
[18:30] Speaker 5: getting paid. And so there was an opportunity here.
[18:33] Speaker 7: Like we can educate kids about financial literacy, about college,
[18:37] Speaker 7: about decisions that they were going to make around money
[18:39] Speaker 7: at 14 with the hopes that if they got it
[18:41] Speaker 7: at 14, they would be more advanced by 19, 20, 25.
[18:44] Speaker 7: And so financial literacy was at the cusp of that.
[18:48] Speaker 5: It was like, all right, bet.
[18:49] Speaker 7: We're going to pay these kids to be in the program.
[18:51] Speaker 7: Let's teach them about money. He had just started his
[18:53] Speaker 7: career in advising.
[18:54] Speaker 5: I'm like, this is perfect. You can come in.
[18:56] Speaker 7: And so we started co-teaching that. Like I learned about
[18:58] Speaker 7: finance from him. He learned how to have classroom management
[19:01] Speaker 7: for me, create lesson plans.
[19:03] Speaker 5: And so we did that.
[19:04] Speaker 7: In my mind, the vision was I need to have
[19:06] Speaker 7: this program throughout New York first, right? Because parents would
[19:10] Speaker 7: see it. They're like, this is incredible. How do I
[19:12] Speaker 7: scale this? I'm like, I can't figure it out. I
[19:14] Speaker 7: can't figure it out. He was always into social media.
[19:17] Speaker 7: He was like, this is how we do it. So
[19:19] Speaker 7: he had our COO was up there right now, Abdulai.
[19:22] Speaker 7: He said, look, shout out to Ab. He was like, look,
[19:26] Speaker 7: I want you to record the classrooms. I was like, oh, okay, whatever.
[19:29] Speaker 7: I'm still trying to figure out how to scale this physically.
[19:32] Speaker 7: He was like, just keep recording the classroom. He was
[19:34] Speaker 7: huge on content, putting it up. That led to him
[19:37] Speaker 7: creating his own platform. He wanted to teach people about
[19:41] Speaker 7: finance in a different way. Sometimes when we think about finance,
[19:45] Speaker 7: it's a foreign language. right and we were coming out
[19:48] Speaker 7: like we're a set of stone we were coming like
[19:50] Speaker 7: let's break the monotony of this stush feeling when it
[19:54] Speaker 7: came to financial education let's talk it in our language
[19:57] Speaker 7: and so he was doing that for multiple people had
[20:00] Speaker 7: his own public access show um i'll let him tell
[20:02] Speaker 7: his story and then people like wait where's the rest
[20:05] Speaker 7: of that we need more of that where's the episode
[20:07] Speaker 7: and one day he was like look want to do
[20:09] Speaker 7: a show Let's do this podcast. We sat in my basement.
[20:12] Speaker 7: I'm like, all right, let's do it. And that's how
[20:16] Speaker 7: Earn Your Leisure was birthed, really. We came up with
[20:17] Speaker 7: the name pretty quickly. He was already using it as
[20:20] Speaker 7: a hashtag. And from there, it was consistent. We was like,
[20:22] Speaker 7: all right, well, here's the vision. These are the 10
[20:25] Speaker 7: things we need to do. Here are 10 people we
[20:26] Speaker 7: want to interview. Let's just go attack it. And really,
[20:29] Speaker 7: it started with three iPhones and that idea, and it
[20:32] Speaker 7: branded into what you see now.
[20:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's... I don't want to cut you off.
[20:36] Speaker 3: I just want you to.
[20:38] Speaker 1: Can you explain to me what you took from the
[20:40] Speaker 1: public access and like, just explain to me how that
[20:43] Speaker 1: works within your story and then how you knew how
[20:45] Speaker 1: to maneuver into, you know, subscribers streaming and all that.
[20:49] Speaker 1: And the difference in the revenue streams and like how
[20:51] Speaker 1: much is valued at.
[20:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[20:53] Speaker 4: I never went to business school, but I was always
[20:55] Speaker 4: interested in business my whole life. So I was studying
[20:58] Speaker 4: like real world case studies. So in 2012, Instagram was
[21:04] Speaker 4: like fairly new. And I got introduced to it. And
[21:08] Speaker 4: like everybody else, I was on the app all the time.
[21:10] Speaker 4: And when I'm first on Instagram, I'm just thinking like,
[21:13] Speaker 4: this is a cool app. You get to share photos.
[21:14] Speaker 4: At the time, it was no videos. At that time,
[21:16] Speaker 4: it was just for iPhone users. But I quickly realized
[21:20] Speaker 4: something in this situation. So I used to follow this
[21:23] Speaker 4: fashion blog. And the fashion blog had like a million
[21:27] Speaker 4: followers at that time. And at that time, if you
[21:28] Speaker 4: had a million followers, you could reach a million people.
[21:31] Speaker 4: And what I realized was that what she was doing,
[21:35] Speaker 4: the girl that actually was running the fashion blog was
[21:37] Speaker 4: that she would post like look books on like, you know,
[21:40] Speaker 4: this actress wore this and this singer wore this. But
[21:43] Speaker 4: in between the looks, she would do like organic ads.
[21:50] Speaker 4: So it'd be like a small boutique in Philly that
[21:52] Speaker 4: had a blazer. And you didn't really know it was
[21:56] Speaker 4: an ad unless she was actually really studying it. So
[21:59] Speaker 4: right then I'm like, this is crazy. Cause how I
[22:03] Speaker 4: was looking at it was like, okay, how many people
[22:06] Speaker 4: subscribe to New York times? Probably a million people in
[22:10] Speaker 4: circulation from New York times every single day. And how
[22:14] Speaker 4: much money does it cost to run an ad in
[22:16] Speaker 4: the New York times?
[22:19] Speaker 3: $ 50, 000.
[22:20] Speaker 4: How much money does it cost to run an ad
[22:22] Speaker 4: on NBC, ABC millions of dollars.
[22:25] Speaker 2: Right.
[22:25] Speaker 4: But I'm thinking, I didn't know, but I'm thinking to
[22:28] Speaker 4: myself that they're probably paying her $ 500 a thousand dollars.
[22:32] Speaker 4: but they can reach just as many people as all
[22:34] Speaker 4: of these traditional outlets. So then that's when I was like, okay,
[22:40] Speaker 4: advertising is going to change. This is the new wave.
[22:43] Speaker 4: So I actually had a meeting with him and I
[22:47] Speaker 4: was explaining this to him. And I was like, we
[22:48] Speaker 4: need to start a fashion blog.
[22:51] Speaker 2: And we did.
[22:53] Speaker 4: We started a fashion blog. It was called Fashion Wave.
[22:55] Speaker 4: And we actually got it to like 12,000 followers. But
[22:57] Speaker 4: that was the original point was like social media is,
[23:02] Speaker 4: Is something that's going to take.
[23:03] Speaker 2: Over the world.
[23:04] Speaker 4: Most people have no idea. How they're actually using it.
[23:07] Speaker 4: They're just using it as consumers. But there's a business
[23:10] Speaker 4: behind this. This is before influencer was even a word.
[23:13] Speaker 4: This is before you had to put ad. You could
[23:15] Speaker 4: just organically do it. That didn't work out. But the idea.
[23:21] Speaker 4: Was still there. So the next idea was. I was
[23:24] Speaker 4: a financial advisor at the time. So I wanted to
[23:28] Speaker 4: become a celebrity financial advisor.
[23:30] Speaker 2: That was my original goal.
[23:32] Speaker 4: I wanted to work with athletes, entertainers, because I felt
[23:35] Speaker 4: like I played basketball my whole entire life. And I
[23:38] Speaker 4: was looking at the people that was representing athletes, and
[23:41] Speaker 4: I'm like, I know that they're not from the culture.
[23:44] Speaker 4: They're not listening to the music. I know the music.
[23:47] Speaker 4: I'm listening to it. Why should they get to work
[23:50] Speaker 4: with these people? I know I'm more qualified because I
[23:53] Speaker 4: can actually sit down and have a conversation.
[23:56] Speaker 2: But I didn't know anybody. I had no inroads.
[23:59] Speaker 4: I had no advanced degree and I didn't really have
[24:03] Speaker 4: a way to actually get my way into the door.
[24:06] Speaker 4: So the idea was to become a famous celebrity financial
[24:11] Speaker 4: advisor because I was looking at the landscape and I'm like, okay,
[24:14] Speaker 4: social media has provided a platform for anybody to become
[24:17] Speaker 4: a celebrity, celebrity chef, a celebrity trainer. Previously, you can
[24:21] Speaker 4: only become a celebrity if you was an athlete or
[24:24] Speaker 4: an entertainer, but now you could be a celebrity anything.
[24:27] Speaker 4: I'm like, well, you maybe be able to be a
[24:30] Speaker 4: celebrity financial advisor, right?
[24:32] Speaker 3: First of its kind.
[24:33] Speaker 5: Anything is possible, right?
[24:35] Speaker 3: Anything. Anything is possible, bro.
[24:37] Speaker 2: Just maybe.
[24:38] Speaker 4: So that's when all of the content comes into play, right?
[24:43] Speaker 4: Where it's record everything. I'm mad we're not recording this,
[24:46] Speaker 4: but that's the number one rule in life is to
[24:48] Speaker 4: record everything because you never know.
[24:50] Speaker 2: So we record.
[24:52] Speaker 3: We are recording.
[24:53] Speaker 4: We're recording this, but you got to get.
[24:55] Speaker 2: You got to get the organic.
[24:59] Speaker 5: Cell phone footage algorithm breaker.
[25:02] Speaker 4: So now it's like, okay, record the classroom, record selfie videos,
[25:09] Speaker 4: record everything to your question about the public access show.
[25:14] Speaker 2: The number one rule in life is to cultivate relationships.
[25:18] Speaker 2: There's a lot of number one rules in life, by
[25:20] Speaker 2: the way.
[25:21] Speaker 5: It's like, Just so y'all know.
[25:25] Speaker 7: Yes.
[25:26] Speaker 2: Three more are coming. So you got to cultivate relationships.
[25:31] Speaker 2: So I was like, okay.
[25:34] Speaker 4: At that time, I wanted to get in front of
[25:37] Speaker 4: all the top real estate developers and entrepreneurs and architects.
[25:43] Speaker 4: These are people that have made a lot of money
[25:45] Speaker 4: and successful, but nobody knows them. And what I realized
[25:49] Speaker 4: is that the number one rule of life is that
[25:52] Speaker 4: everybody wants to talk about themselves, right? So I'm like, okay,
[25:55] Speaker 4: if I could provide a platform for somebody to talk
[25:57] Speaker 4: about themselves, then now that's actually a way for me
[26:00] Speaker 4: to build a relationship. So I get offered a public
[26:04] Speaker 4: access show. I never looked at it as a public
[26:06] Speaker 4: access show. I looked at it as a TV show.
[26:08] Speaker 4: And that's how I pitched it. I would go to
[26:10] Speaker 4: somebody and be like, you know, I have a TV show.
[26:11] Speaker 4: Nobody's going to turn down being on a TV show,
[26:13] Speaker 4: especially if they've never been on TV.
[26:16] Speaker 7: So.
[26:17] Speaker 4: what that actually did was help me to sharpen my
[26:20] Speaker 4: communication skills and learn how to actually interview people.
[26:24] Speaker 3: Right?
[26:25] Speaker 2: So all of this is happening at the same time.
[26:28] Speaker 4: We have a relationship from growing up together and working
[26:30] Speaker 4: in the classroom as he just described. And my social
[26:32] Speaker 4: media following is building at the time. So when we
[26:35] Speaker 4: start earning your leisure to show, um, now we have
[26:39] Speaker 4: a lot of things working for us, right? So when
[26:44] Speaker 4: we hit this, the ground, It's like an explosion because
[26:49] Speaker 4: we was able to actually.
[26:51] Speaker 2: Provide information in a very relatable manner.
[26:54] Speaker 4: So we're kind of like the ladder to the clouds.
[26:57] Speaker 4: I think a lot of times in our community, there
[26:59] Speaker 4: have been a small pocket of black intellectuals. But they
[27:06] Speaker 4: have not been able to fully communicate or relate to
[27:10] Speaker 4: the vast majority of black people on the ground. So
[27:14] Speaker 4: now you have a disconnect. The intellectuals feel like they're
[27:19] Speaker 4: better than the masses. The masses feel like the intellectuals
[27:24] Speaker 4: are bourgeoisies and they just like disregard them, right? So
[27:29] Speaker 4: I'm like, well, there's value in both places. We need
[27:31] Speaker 4: each other, right? So it's like, okay, we have an
[27:35] Speaker 4: interesting background where we're able to communicate to everybody. We
[27:41] Speaker 4: can be in Ivy League school or we can be
[27:43] Speaker 4: in a penitentiary communicating to people.
[27:45] Speaker 2: And we have been in both places. communicating with people
[27:47] Speaker 2: and educating people. So when we.
[27:50] Speaker 4: Were able to provide the education, it was done in
[27:55] Speaker 4: a very non-traditional manner when it comes to business. So
[27:59] Speaker 4: the way that we dress, we have hoodies and t-shirts.
[28:01] Speaker 4: The way that we talk, we was using hip hop references,
[28:04] Speaker 4: but we're breaking down case studies and we're actually talking
[28:06] Speaker 4: about very high level business, right? And everybody wants to
[28:09] Speaker 4: make money. So what happens is that it's just perfect timing.
[28:14] Speaker 4: It hits social media and then it just, Explodes on
[28:17] Speaker 4: social media. My original thesis on social media actually turned
[28:21] Speaker 4: out to be right. Like I said, we just had
[28:23] Speaker 4: to wait some time and we switched lanes a little bit.
[28:26] Speaker 4: But the idea of it came to fruition and then
[28:30] Speaker 4: there's opportunities in every crisis. So when the pandemic happened,
[28:35] Speaker 4: everything shut down and everybody was scared. And a lot
[28:37] Speaker 4: of people, you know, unfortunately lost their jobs and some
[28:41] Speaker 4: people passed away as well. But then some people benefited.
[28:46] Speaker 4: we were on the side of people that actually benefited
[28:48] Speaker 4: because when everybody was home, we had nothing to do.
[28:51] Speaker 4: So then they start watching us. And then we develop
[28:54] Speaker 4: a show called Market Mondays, where we're actually teaching people
[28:55] Speaker 4: about stocks, investing. Then something that happened in our favor
[29:00] Speaker 4: was that everybody got a stimulus check. Then something that
[29:03] Speaker 4: happened in our favor is that the stock market started
[29:05] Speaker 4: to skyrocket. So now people are making money in real
[29:07] Speaker 4: time from our information. And then it becomes like a
[29:10] Speaker 4: cult following. Now everybody's passing it along and they're telling
[29:14] Speaker 4: their friend, they're telling their cousins and before you know it,
[29:16] Speaker 4: we're at like a million people that's watching us, right?
[29:19] Speaker 4: So this is all part of the Earn Your Leisure story,
[29:23] Speaker 4: how we was able to grow organically. But it's a
[29:26] Speaker 4: mix of, I think, having a unique product, mixing it
[29:29] Speaker 4: with the right time and maximizing the moment. We're in
[29:33] Speaker 4: a moment right now where traditionally media, if we were
[29:37] Speaker 4: to try to start a show 15, 20 years ago,
[29:40] Speaker 4: we would have to go to Bloomberg, CNBC, ABC, and
[29:46] Speaker 4: we would have to compromise who we are. We would
[29:48] Speaker 4: have to like shave our face and we would have
[29:51] Speaker 4: to talk in a language that we didn't fully even
[29:54] Speaker 4: feel comfortable talking in. We would have to wear a suit.
[29:58] Speaker 4: We would have to be under the umbrella of them.
[30:00] Speaker 4: We couldn't own our own show. It'd be impossible. But
[30:03] Speaker 4: now the cell phone has empowered the creatives and independents.
[30:09] Speaker 4: And now we're able to break through without having to
[30:12] Speaker 4: go through the actual gatekeepers or the larger institutions. But
[30:15] Speaker 4: what has propelled us to even a higher level is
[30:18] Speaker 4: there's a middle ground that can be reached where now
[30:22] Speaker 4: independence is at an all time high and we have
[30:24] Speaker 4: the leverage to But there's only so far you can
[30:27] Speaker 4: go as an independent from just exposure resources. There's still
[30:31] Speaker 4: some level of benefit from corporate. But now we can
[30:38] Speaker 4: work with corporate from a relationship standpoint, as opposed to
[30:43] Speaker 4: them owning everything standpoint, because we have leverage. So now
[30:46] Speaker 4: we've been able to leverage with a lot of different
[30:49] Speaker 4: corporate relationships, which have helped us expand our reach globally
[30:53] Speaker 4: and expanded our reach globally. accelerated the growth in a
[30:56] Speaker 4: much quicker manner. So this is an interesting time for
[30:59] Speaker 4: creatives because now you can grow your following, whatever you're doing,
[31:05] Speaker 4: use that leverage to work with corporate, but maintain ownership,
[31:10] Speaker 4: maintain independence and have real leverage and real partnership as
[31:14] Speaker 4: opposed to being an employee. And that's something that has
[31:18] Speaker 4: accelerated our growth as well. So that's a very long-winded
[31:21] Speaker 4: answer to your question, but I think that it might
[31:23] Speaker 4: be beneficial for anybody that's interested in new age business
[31:26] Speaker 4: and media.
[31:26] Speaker 6: It's crazy.
[31:27] Speaker 7: Cause as he's talking and I was listening to you, Dre,
[31:29] Speaker 7: when you were talking about Nigeria, when we talk about
[31:32] Speaker 7: how we creatively are reaching people, it made me think
[31:35] Speaker 7: about the first time, like what you were speaking about
[31:37] Speaker 7: was illegal Dengote, right? He has an opportunity to change
[31:40] Speaker 7: the export import ratio from Nigeria. And so I'm thinking like,
[31:44] Speaker 7: how do I teach kids about that? How do I
[31:46] Speaker 7: walk in the classroom and tell them like they should
[31:48] Speaker 7: know this person. And so our way was hip hop, right?
[31:51] Speaker 7: The first lesson was, I took Jay-Z's line. I said,
[31:54] Speaker 7: all Blacks got is sports and entertainment until we even.
[31:57] Speaker 7: And I showed them six people from the world of
[31:59] Speaker 7: sports and entertainment. They knew every one of them. Jay-Z, Beyonce,
[32:02] Speaker 7: Floyd Mayweather, Dr.
[32:03] Speaker 3: Dre, and Oprah.
[32:05] Speaker 5: They knew them all, right? And Jordan. And then I
[32:07] Speaker 5: gave them another.
[32:08] Speaker 7: Sheet with the six wealthiest people, Black people on the planet,
[32:12] Speaker 7: and they knew none. I said, damn, Jay kind of
[32:16] Speaker 7: prophesied this, right? He really showed us, like, all we
[32:19] Speaker 7: had until we even because we've never recognized anything outside
[32:23] Speaker 7: that world until I get to teach them about the
[32:25] Speaker 7: wealthiest guy on the planet who was a legal Dan Goldie.
[32:29] Speaker 7: And now this is the crossroads. And so now that
[32:31] Speaker 7: group of kids never gets to say they don't know
[32:33] Speaker 7: who that guy is.
[32:34] Speaker 5: And guess what?
[32:35] Speaker 7: He didn't do it because he dribbled. He didn't do
[32:37] Speaker 7: it because he could throw a football or he can
[32:39] Speaker 7: spit a rum. He did it from natural resources. He
[32:42] Speaker 7: did it from oil. He did it from cement. These
[32:45] Speaker 7: are all different things. So now that kid or those
[32:48] Speaker 7: kids that are now hearing it know that there's value
[32:50] Speaker 7: in other things Than the traditional things that have been
[32:54] Speaker 7: fed to us through TV, right? We have to be entertaining.
[32:57] Speaker 7: There's no value in the guy who's.
[32:59] Speaker 5: Going to be the doctor in the neighborhood.
[33:02] Speaker 7: There's no value to the person who's going to be
[33:03] Speaker 7: the teacher or who's going to be the chemist or
[33:06] Speaker 7: who's going to be the next person to venture capital.
[33:08] Speaker 7: Those people weren't celebrated until this moment in time. And
[33:11] Speaker 7: so that was kind of the thing was like, all right,
[33:12] Speaker 7: this is how we now can creatively reach people, use
[33:15] Speaker 7: social media, use hip hop, merge it all together and
[33:18] Speaker 7: deliver it to the people.
[33:19] Speaker 3: How long did that breakthrough take?
[33:21] Speaker 6: Because when you sit there, we talked about just recently,
[33:24] Speaker 6: you know, to be more than an athlete was a
[33:27] Speaker 6: thing that just popped up like five or six years ago.
[33:29] Speaker 6: And then a lot of times when you're coming down
[33:31] Speaker 6: and talking about sports and entertainment and what young individuals
[33:34] Speaker 6: typically want to be, they necessarily don't want to hear
[33:37] Speaker 6: all the rah-rah like educational stuff. And, um, How did
[33:40] Speaker 6: you guys keep your confidence up? We always have a saying, don't,
[33:43] Speaker 6: you know, diss the caterpillar and then jot the butterfly. So, like,
[33:47] Speaker 6: it couldn't have been that easy going in and, you know,
[33:49] Speaker 6: continuing to build step by step. So how did you
[33:51] Speaker 6: guys keep that momentum up and the faith? Did you
[33:54] Speaker 6: ever get discouraged?
[33:55] Speaker 4: Well, I think that when losing is not an option,
[34:00] Speaker 4: then you really have no choice but to win. So
[34:04] Speaker 4: it's a few ways how you look at the time frame.
[34:07] Speaker 4: You can look at it from when we started social media.
[34:10] Speaker 4: That's a relatively short period in the grand scheme of
[34:12] Speaker 4: things of success. Like we kind of it just kind
[34:14] Speaker 4: of went up. But then you look at it from
[34:17] Speaker 4: like your whole entire life takes you to the moment
[34:19] Speaker 4: that you're at.
[34:19] Speaker 2: And that's a very long journey.
[34:20] Speaker 3: Right.
[34:21] Speaker 4: So it's like he was a teacher and he was
[34:24] Speaker 4: preparing for that moment without knowing it. I was a
[34:26] Speaker 4: financial advisor and I was preparing for that moment without
[34:29] Speaker 4: knowing it.
[34:29] Speaker 2: Right.
[34:30] Speaker 4: So I feel that you have to fully believe in
[34:35] Speaker 4: what you're doing. You can't really even think about it
[34:40] Speaker 4: not working. It's only a matter of how do I
[34:43] Speaker 4: get it to work. So for me, my personal journey,
[34:47] Speaker 4: I never really had a job before ever. So I
[34:50] Speaker 4: went to school and then I became a financial advisor.
[34:53] Speaker 4: It's a commission-based situation. So anybody can get hired. I
[34:56] Speaker 4: wasn't working on Wall Street. I was working for an
[34:58] Speaker 4: insurance company. It's not too difficult to get hired in
[35:01] Speaker 4: that situation, just being honest. Um, but it's also extremely
[35:05] Speaker 4: difficult to be successful in it. That's why it's not
[35:07] Speaker 4: difficult to get hired. Like 90, 90% of people is
[35:10] Speaker 4: not going.
[35:10] Speaker 2: To be successful.
[35:11] Speaker 3: That's 22.
[35:11] Speaker 2: But you know, it was.
[35:13] Speaker 4: Extremely, it's extremely difficult type of job, especially at 24
[35:16] Speaker 4: years old to try to convince people that they, you know,
[35:18] Speaker 4: need life insurance and IRAs and stuff like that. But
[35:21] Speaker 4: my alternative, like I said, I didn't have an advanced degree.
[35:24] Speaker 4: I went to a state school. My alternative was to
[35:27] Speaker 4: actually get a job and, that wasn't going to happen.
[35:32] Speaker 4: So I really had no choice but to make it happen.
[35:35] Speaker 4: So I think, you know, and when you, when you
[35:37] Speaker 4: use that type of framework, then you really don't think
[35:40] Speaker 4: about like tough times or like, because at the end
[35:44] Speaker 4: of the day, what is a tough time? We really
[35:47] Speaker 4: never really had anything anyway. So that's something that we
[35:50] Speaker 4: already used to. Like, I mean, if you think about it,
[35:52] Speaker 4: like it can't really get too much worse. You only
[35:57] Speaker 4: really have a, you really have.
[36:00] Speaker 2: Nothing to lose when you have nothing to lose, right?
[36:02] Speaker 4: Like when you become a millionaire, now you start to
[36:04] Speaker 4: think like, damn, I can really screw this up and
[36:06] Speaker 4: I'm back to zero.
[36:07] Speaker 2: But I mean, if you have $ 5, 000 in your bank account,
[36:09] Speaker 2: what's the worst that can happen?
[36:10] Speaker 5: You're closer to zero.
[36:12] Speaker 2: That's right.
[36:15] Speaker 5: And that's the reality.
[36:15] Speaker 7: Like we grow up, we're so close to zero. So
[36:18] Speaker 7: what is the risk, right? But I thought he was
[36:20] Speaker 7: going to answer this a whole different way. Because the
[36:23] Speaker 7: thing about it, I've known him since he was probably
[36:25] Speaker 7: 11 years old. He's known me vice versa. There was
[36:27] Speaker 7: never a time where our confidence ever wavered in ourselves.
[36:30] Speaker 7: What we were going to do is we would figure
[36:32] Speaker 7: that out, but we were always confident in what we
[36:34] Speaker 7: were going to be. Like I knew he was going
[36:36] Speaker 7: to be successful, probably vice versa.
[36:39] Speaker 5: And our community knew that too, because we were rooted
[36:41] Speaker 5: in the community.
[36:42] Speaker 7: But what happened over time was that we realized representation
[36:47] Speaker 7: and showing up as your authentic self was the key, right?
[36:50] Speaker 7: So most people, when I worked, They were like, well,
[36:53] Speaker 7: you're the gym teacher.
[36:54] Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, I'm the.
[36:55] Speaker 7: Physical educator, but there's other things I do, too. But
[36:58] Speaker 7: people will only judge you from where they see you at.
[37:00] Speaker 3: Right.
[37:00] Speaker 7: So like even now, if I go back to the school,
[37:02] Speaker 7: they always ask me if I'm coming back. I'm like, well,
[37:07] Speaker 7: about that.
[37:08] Speaker 5: Right.
[37:08] Speaker 7: But they only they only could see me as that.
[37:11] Speaker 7: But there was so much more to it. So when
[37:14] Speaker 7: we started to grow as a company, it was like,
[37:17] Speaker 7: all right, don't change who you are.
[37:20] Speaker 3: Right.
[37:20] Speaker 7: When I was standing in front of kids in the Bronx,
[37:23] Speaker 7: I had the freshest Jordans on.
[37:24] Speaker 3: Right.
[37:25] Speaker 5: I had G-Shock watches.
[37:26] Speaker 7: I had a BMW because I knew one day a
[37:29] Speaker 7: kid was going to look at Mr. Miller's and say,
[37:32] Speaker 7: I want to be him. Like a lot of kids
[37:34] Speaker 7: are going to grow up saying they want to be you.
[37:35] Speaker 7: But I was like, I want kids to grow up
[37:37] Speaker 7: and say they could be me because the chances that
[37:39] Speaker 7: they could be me is 100 percent chance.
[37:42] Speaker 1: Right.
[37:42] Speaker 7: Right.
[37:43] Speaker 5: Like making it to the NBA is one in a million.
[37:45] Speaker 3: Right.
[37:46] Speaker 7: But being somebody that is productive in their community, somebody
[37:48] Speaker 7: that's giving back, somebody that's educating their community, they could
[37:51] Speaker 7: do that. So if I could show them I could
[37:53] Speaker 7: have the nice car that you guys have, I could
[37:55] Speaker 7: have some of the watches and some of the kicks,
[37:57] Speaker 7: and that's where it stops.
[38:01] Speaker 5: I'm making it very clear. That's where it stops. You
[38:03] Speaker 5: might get luckier. You've never been in Dubai. I've never
[38:06] Speaker 5: been in Dubai. So that's the thing. Now they see,
[38:11] Speaker 5: that's my teacher. He was my teacher. I know him.
[38:16] Speaker 7: He's in Dubai. He just sat with Steve Harvey. He's
[38:18] Speaker 7: here with Andre Iguodala. Right now, he's speaking at Warren. Yo,
[38:22] Speaker 7: he used to teach me how to catch a football.
[38:25] Speaker 7: Anything is possible, but the representation was there. So when
[38:28] Speaker 7: you see us show up in a hoodie and we
[38:30] Speaker 7: have on fresh kicks and we do travel and we
[38:33] Speaker 7: like to wear nice clothes, that's all part of the
[38:35] Speaker 7: presentation because that's authentically who we were prior to all
[38:39] Speaker 7: of this. All we get to do now is show
[38:41] Speaker 7: up as we are and people are receptive to it
[38:43] Speaker 7: because it's like.
[38:44] Speaker 5: Wait, these guys is real. They're the real deal. This
[38:47] Speaker 5: is real.
[38:47] Speaker 7: This is really who they are every day. And that's
[38:49] Speaker 7: the easiest part. We get to show up as ourselves
[38:52] Speaker 7: every single day.
[38:54] Speaker 1: Now, I got a question to that for all three
[38:56] Speaker 1: of you, because this is, you know, I have battles
[38:58] Speaker 1: with this sometimes where I had a teammate. His name
[39:01] Speaker 1: was Andrew Bogut, and he and I have gotten really close.
[39:04] Speaker 1: And I learned this from my mother.
[39:06] Speaker 3: You know, I did. I wrote a book, The Sixth Man.
[39:09] Speaker 3: And go buy it if you haven't read it.
[39:11] Speaker 2: On Amazon right now.
[39:14] Speaker 1: I never planned on saying that, to be honest. But
[39:16] Speaker 1: my mother taught me at a young age. I had
[39:18] Speaker 1: a story in there where my mother had two voices.
[39:21] Speaker 1: And I said this to her one time. She looked
[39:22] Speaker 1: at me crazy. I was like, Mom, when you have
[39:24] Speaker 1: on makeup, you're nice. And when you don't have your makeup,
[39:28] Speaker 1: I think I'm going to get a whooping at any time.
[39:30] Speaker 3: Given moment.
[39:31] Speaker 1: My mom was six foot tall, so I was scared
[39:33] Speaker 1: of her until I was like 15, like frightened. And
[39:37] Speaker 1: she had two voices, though. You know, she had the
[39:40] Speaker 1: voice at home, and then we went out to work.
[39:41] Speaker 1: She had the other voice. And I think as African Americans,
[39:44] Speaker 1: we all have that. You got to switch it up.
[39:49] Speaker 1: And so the code switching, thank you. And so Andrew Bogut,
[39:51] Speaker 1: he said to me, he's like, Andrew, why do you
[39:53] Speaker 1: talk different to your black teammates than you talk different
[39:56] Speaker 1: when you're talking to white people? And I couldn't quite
[40:02] Speaker 1: explain it to him, but I was trying to explain
[40:05] Speaker 1: to him. My mother, when we went to go, she
[40:08] Speaker 1: was on the phone. I remember the phone conversation, talking
[40:10] Speaker 1: to this guy about a house rental. We used to
[40:12] Speaker 1: rent this small two-bedroom apartment. I went in there maybe
[40:16] Speaker 1: 10 years ago, and I'm in there like this. And
[40:20] Speaker 1: I'm like, my brother and I, how do we live
[40:23] Speaker 1: in this space together? You know, he's the same height
[40:25] Speaker 1: as me. And the guys approved the rental. Like, yes,
[40:30] Speaker 1: it's available to you. She took my brother and myself
[40:33] Speaker 1: with her to see this, to get the house. And
[40:36] Speaker 1: so we pulled up, knock on the door. He answers
[40:37] Speaker 1: the door. He's like, can I help you? She was like, yes,
[40:39] Speaker 1: I'm the lady you spoke to on the phone. But
[40:41] Speaker 1: her voice, he couldn't tell what it was. The house
[40:47] Speaker 1: is not available. So from that moment... Like I understood
[40:51] Speaker 1: like how.
[40:52] Speaker 3: The world works. Like, whoa. And I'm like nine, nine
[40:56] Speaker 3: years old. Like who understands that at nine years old?
[40:58] Speaker 1: And like, it's just like what you're saying is like,
[41:00] Speaker 1: how low can you go when you, I mean, what
[41:02] Speaker 1: can you lose when you don't have anything to lose?
[41:04] Speaker 1: And so that leads me to now I still have
[41:07] Speaker 1: to maneuver how I speak. I have to be PC,
[41:10] Speaker 1: more PC in some places. You know, I can turn
[41:12] Speaker 1: it down to other places. Even when we speak, you know,
[41:15] Speaker 1: he's always saying, I want to see that spring for
[41:17] Speaker 1: the new, but for three of you, You know, this
[41:19] Speaker 1: is my question. You know, the higher you keep moving up,
[41:22] Speaker 1: you're going to open doors that, you know, you've never
[41:25] Speaker 1: been in before or doors we've never been in before.
[41:28] Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking, you know, we're seeing entertainers into these
[41:31] Speaker 1: billionaire realms and they have to maneuver different. You know,
[41:34] Speaker 1: we're in this room and we don't have the black
[41:37] Speaker 1: Elon Musk, whatever you want to call it, or the Zuckerberg.
[41:39] Speaker 1: Like when are we going to have our own tech
[41:41] Speaker 1: companies that are, you know, trillion dollar market caps?
[41:45] Speaker 3: But we're inching closer. And so as you move up,
[41:48] Speaker 3: you say you want to stay yourself.
[41:50] Speaker 1: Like we always want to stay ourselves, but are you
[41:52] Speaker 1: thinking about how you plan on maneuvering once you get
[41:57] Speaker 1: into certain places?
[41:58] Speaker 3: And like, what's your thoughts on it?
[42:00] Speaker 6: I think the only thing I can change is like,
[42:02] Speaker 6: I probably curse less in certain places, but that's just
[42:06] Speaker 6: the truth. But like anything else, cause you know, sometimes
[42:09] Speaker 6: you might walk into rooms and you might be like, man,
[42:11] Speaker 6: am I, am I sure I'm supposed to be here?
[42:13] Speaker 6: And one thing I always say is like, I've been
[42:15] Speaker 6: told is look for the signs. And when you talk
[42:17] Speaker 6: to other people, Shout out to everybody. You guys are
[42:21] Speaker 6: very talented, accomplished people.
[42:23] Speaker 3: And so am I.
[42:24] Speaker 6: And when you talk to other people, you see the
[42:26] Speaker 6: confidence that individuals have and sit in front of you
[42:29] Speaker 6: having all the things they can do.
[42:31] Speaker 3: And it's like, OK, you guys are.
[42:32] Speaker 5: Able to do that.
[42:33] Speaker 6: You're able to do what you said. What I was
[42:36] Speaker 6: able to do was one in a million. And, you know,
[42:38] Speaker 6: you'd be a teacher and be a lot of different things.
[42:39] Speaker 6: And so I try to find, you know, the one little,
[42:43] Speaker 6: you know. spec that I can take to really build
[42:45] Speaker 6: from so when I sit there and I see you
[42:47] Speaker 6: know great people speak with confidence I'm like well I
[42:50] Speaker 6: came from a situation of you know poverty where you
[42:53] Speaker 6: know single parent wasn't supposed to make it out wasn't
[42:57] Speaker 6: supposed to be in this situation I was able to
[42:58] Speaker 6: do it with you know a tenth of a chance
[43:00] Speaker 6: so every time I look there I'm like all right
[43:03] Speaker 6: if these people can do it I can leave here
[43:04] Speaker 6: and do it because I've done some amazing stuff that
[43:07] Speaker 6: most people can't even fathom we talk about a lot
[43:11] Speaker 6: of situations even just for career like mistakes it's like
[43:14] Speaker 6: you're worried about how people judge you. But a lot
[43:16] Speaker 6: of people stopped their mission a long, long time ago
[43:19] Speaker 6: and just went to the sideline and started pointing like, yo,
[43:21] Speaker 6: that ain't him. And it's like, no, I'm your superior.
[43:24] Speaker 3: I'm him.
[43:24] Speaker 5: Worry about yourself.
[43:26] Speaker 6: You know what I mean? And then from there, I
[43:28] Speaker 6: move on and just keep going. But, you know, I
[43:31] Speaker 6: got to keep it. Dre does a great job of
[43:33] Speaker 6: smoothing it out. But my mission, my delivery can be
[43:36] Speaker 6: a little bit more aggressive. But I definitely earned earn
[43:39] Speaker 6: the right to know I'm in that room and gain
[43:41] Speaker 6: confidence for comprehending that if you can do great things,
[43:44] Speaker 6: I can do great things. And I take it from there. Yeah,
[43:47] Speaker 6: I think you're spot on with the confidence.
[43:49] Speaker 7: And Dre, that story you told about your mother, it
[43:52] Speaker 7: hit me dead in the heart because I remember calling
[43:56] Speaker 7: my dad at work.
[43:57] Speaker 5: My parents are from Jamaica.
[43:59] Speaker 3: Strong.
[43:59] Speaker 5: Yeah, shout out.
[44:04] Speaker 2: Bumper clutch.
[44:06] Speaker 3: Okay.
[44:07] Speaker 5: Now that we said that... Now, that's out the way.
[44:09] Speaker 5: So I would call him.
[44:11] Speaker 7: And, you know, he has a heavy patois dialect. But
[44:15] Speaker 7: that's changed over the years. When I would call him,
[44:17] Speaker 7: he worked in Manhattan at corporate.
[44:18] Speaker 5: And I told the story.
[44:19] Speaker 7: I really never know what he did. But I would
[44:21] Speaker 7: call him and he would answer it. And my brothers
[44:23] Speaker 7: used to laugh. I'll do it for y'all.
[44:24] Speaker 5: He'd be like, hello.
[44:25] Speaker 7: I'd be like, yeah, it's me. And, you know, he
[44:33] Speaker 7: would talk to me in his regular voice. And when
[44:34] Speaker 7: I would call my mom, she couldn't. She never did it.
[44:37] Speaker 7: But it used to irk me then, but it irks
[44:39] Speaker 7: me even more so now. It's like somebody close the house,
[44:41] Speaker 7: he'll do that. And it's because I'm fighting for him
[44:45] Speaker 7: to never have to do it, right? And so when
[44:48] Speaker 7: we show up in these rooms, I show up exactly
[44:51] Speaker 7: who I am right now, right? The guy who used
[44:54] Speaker 7: to stand in front of the classroom who couldn't curse, right,
[44:58] Speaker 7: is the same guy that's going to sit on CNBC
[45:00] Speaker 7: or Good Morning America or Bloomberg, same guy that goes
[45:03] Speaker 7: to the breakfast club with Joe Budden.
[45:05] Speaker 5: I'm able to change the conversation.
[45:07] Speaker 7: The conversations change, the information changes, but the person never changes.
[45:12] Speaker 7: And so we're comfortable in the barbershop or we're comfortable
[45:15] Speaker 7: right here in the business school because we trust and
[45:17] Speaker 7: we're confident in what we know.
[45:20] Speaker 5: And that's the most important thing.
[45:21] Speaker 7: I think a lot of times people feel intimidated because
[45:25] Speaker 7: they don't know what they're talking about, right? And so
[45:27] Speaker 7: that's our thing is like, I'm a constant learner. So
[45:29] Speaker 7: every day, like I told you, I just read the
[45:31] Speaker 7: Wall Street Journal before I got here. Let's have a conversation, right?
[45:36] Speaker 7: I'm going to be part of the conversation because I
[45:38] Speaker 7: make it my point to. I don't ever want to
[45:40] Speaker 7: walk into a room where I'm going to feel like
[45:43] Speaker 7: I don't feel confident. We sat down in some prestigious
[45:46] Speaker 7: rooms over the past month, and it was like, I
[45:49] Speaker 7: feel like, yeah, we've earned every aspect of respect and
[45:55] Speaker 7: determination and dedication to be in these rooms. So it
[45:58] Speaker 7: starts with the confidence, but it also goes into that
[46:00] Speaker 7: part of having education and feeling like, you know what,
[46:03] Speaker 7: I belong.
[46:04] Speaker 2: I want to answer this.
[46:05] Speaker 4: I'll try to speed it up, but two parts. So
[46:09] Speaker 4: I never really had to worry about codes. I grew
[46:11] Speaker 4: up radical, and I never had a job. So I
[46:15] Speaker 4: never really had to worry about code switching.
[46:19] Speaker 5: He really told me.
[46:20] Speaker 4: Because you only code switch when you're not in a
[46:22] Speaker 4: position of power. Elon Musk can curse on TV, and
[46:24] Speaker 4: it's okay. That's a fact.
[46:29] Speaker 5: They got finger snaps on that joint. That was crazy.
[46:31] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[46:34] Speaker 5: All the Renaissance.
[46:35] Speaker 4: But what I did realize when so when I was
[46:38] Speaker 4: working as a financial advisor in my office, you know,
[46:42] Speaker 4: everybody in my office is pretty much older white man.
[46:45] Speaker 4: And in the beginning part of like the training, they
[46:48] Speaker 4: will make you watch videos of yourself.
[46:50] Speaker 2: Like we have like a practice sale.
[46:53] Speaker 4: And I never really realized that I actually had a
[46:56] Speaker 4: New York accent until I actually watched myself speak. And
[47:01] Speaker 4: then then I started to realize it. And I kind
[47:05] Speaker 4: of became a little self-conscious of how I spoke because
[47:08] Speaker 4: I know that I didn't have the best diction. I
[47:11] Speaker 4: know that I had an accent and I didn't sound
[47:15] Speaker 4: like anybody else in the office. But I realized that
[47:19] Speaker 4: what I thought might have been a disadvantage was actually
[47:23] Speaker 4: a superpower. And that's actually helped us is that there's
[47:26] Speaker 4: millions of people that actually talk like I talk and
[47:29] Speaker 4: relate to how I communicate as opposed to how somebody
[47:32] Speaker 4: else communicates. Those people were left out of the conversation
[47:35] Speaker 4: for a long period of time. So never run away
[47:38] Speaker 4: from who you are. Embrace who you are, because that's
[47:41] Speaker 4: actually a superpower. Now, you do have to be intelligent
[47:45] Speaker 4: and it is important to have a strong mastery of
[47:49] Speaker 4: the language that you speak. So, you know, it's like
[47:54] Speaker 4: you don't wear a jumpsuit to a wedding. This is
[47:56] Speaker 4: common sense. So how you communicate in a barbershop might
[48:00] Speaker 4: not be how you communicate.
[48:02] Speaker 5: That's a hell no.
[48:05] Speaker 7: You're talking about the Batman suit that Jaden wore.
[48:10] Speaker 4: I think it's just a matter of just knowing how
[48:11] Speaker 4: to communicate properly, not necessarily code switch. I don't like
[48:14] Speaker 4: code switch, and I'll never code switch. But Steve Stout
[48:18] Speaker 4: told us something that was extremely important. I think that
[48:20] Speaker 4: this has been the key to earning a lease of success.
[48:23] Speaker 4: It's the thinnest slice strategy. When you black, you have
[48:27] Speaker 4: to deal with a variety of different things that other
[48:29] Speaker 4: people don't have to deal with or don't worry about.
[48:31] Speaker 4: So for us, we walk a very thin line because
[48:36] Speaker 4: most people that are on TV that are communicating finances
[48:39] Speaker 4: that are black, they're not relatable to the majority of
[48:43] Speaker 4: black people, right?
[48:44] Speaker 2: How they talk, how they look, whatever.
[48:47] Speaker 4: And then there's a variety of different people in our
[48:49] Speaker 4: culture of hip hop that aren't taken serious in the
[48:53] Speaker 4: business world, right? So we have to be articulate enough
[49:00] Speaker 4: to be respected at the highest levels of finance to
[49:02] Speaker 4: be here, right? But we also have to be edgy
[49:05] Speaker 4: enough to still be likable, appealable, and relatable to the masses.
[49:10] Speaker 4: That's extremely difficult. Very few people have been able to
[49:13] Speaker 4: pull that one off. And that's something that we do.
[49:17] Speaker 4: This is just a blessing that we've been blessed with.
[49:20] Speaker 4: But this is something that when you're thinking about, you know,
[49:24] Speaker 4: your pathway forward, it's important because a lot of times
[49:28] Speaker 4: when we get isolated in circles that we're in, but
[49:32] Speaker 4: we can never forget about the overarching theme of black people.
[49:38] Speaker 4: And no matter how good we're doing individually, nobody's successful
[49:43] Speaker 4: if the vast majority of people are unsuccessful. And the
[49:46] Speaker 4: vast majority of people are struggling. So it's important to
[49:51] Speaker 4: keep relatability. It's important to be able to communicate to
[49:57] Speaker 4: the masses while still having your integrity and being able
[50:01] Speaker 4: to move up the ladder. Like I said, Elon Musk
[50:04] Speaker 4: doesn't have to worry about that. Mark Zuckerberg doesn't have
[50:07] Speaker 4: to worry about that. They can just communicate and they
[50:09] Speaker 4: just live freely. They don't have to worry about street credibility.
[50:13] Speaker 4: They don't have to, but we do, right? So this
[50:17] Speaker 4: is a very interesting conversation that you just brought up,
[50:20] Speaker 4: but I just feel like, you know, in the world
[50:23] Speaker 4: of media and communications and just everything, it's important that.
[50:27] Speaker 2: People have other people to look up to.
[50:29] Speaker 4: That's why every kid wants to be a rapper and
[50:30] Speaker 4: an entertainer, because those are jobs that they see as attainable.
[50:35] Speaker 2: Because... the architect, the doctor, they're not visible.
[50:39] Speaker 4: They haven't made themselves visible a lot of times, and
[50:42] Speaker 4: they're so far unrelatable that nobody's even going to try
[50:47] Speaker 4: to be that, right? So if we have to, A,
[50:49] Speaker 4: make ourselves more visible, and we have to, A, make
[50:52] Speaker 4: ourselves more relatable as well, that way we can inspire
[50:57] Speaker 4: more people, more kids to want to be more than
[51:00] Speaker 4: just what they see on television.
[51:09] Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much.
[51:10] Speaker 5: Thank you.

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