# Disha Ravi on Becoming the Face of "Radical" Protest in India

An episode of [Drilled](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1439735906), 29 Aug 2023, 32 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/SxlTEPDY7xDg35RXkASs/pdrl.fm/3e5572/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/9a7ab5ee-ce11-48ff-a544-b3ec00ea9b1e/6fd3c3f9-6ed0-49d9-98d7-b3ec00ef9dbf/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=7f82f371-6316-4ea6-a108-b3ec00ea9b2d

At just 22 years old, climate activist Disha Ravi—co-founder of Fridays for Future India—was arrested, flown across the country, and jailed for her activism. She joins us to explain the night the police showed up at her home, how it's still impacting her two years later, and why she refuses to let it stop her activism or force her out of India. An extended version of this interview will run in partnership with the Heated newsletter next week, as the G20 Summit gets underway in Delhi. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:12] Speaker 1: Before you can pass a policy that criminalizes protest, or
[0:16] Speaker 1: show up at someone's house and bungle them off in
[0:18] Speaker 1: an unmarked fan, you have to spend a good few
[0:22] Speaker 1: years making sure a substantial portion of the population will
[0:26] Speaker 1: be on your side and not theirs.
[0:28] Speaker 2: And the best way to do.
[0:29] Speaker 1: That is to vilify and dehumanize the activists in question,
[0:34] Speaker 1: to make them annoying mosquitoes that everyone wants to swat away,
[0:38] Speaker 1: even if they agree with their cause. Globally, the efforts
[0:42] Speaker 1: to cast climate activists in that light have been pretty successful.
[0:47] Speaker 1: It is not uncommon to see everyone from prominent climate
[0:50] Speaker 1: scientists to moderate politicians criticizing the tactics of protesters a
[0:56] Speaker 1: whole lot more than they criticize the criminalization of protest.
[1:01] Speaker 1: That doesn't just happen, it's carefully orchestrated, and in recent years,
[1:05] Speaker 1: mainstream media has mostly been assisting in that effort. When
[1:10] Speaker 1: it covers activism at all, which is rare, the media
[1:13] Speaker 1: is largely critical of it. Headlines describe climate activists as radical,
[1:19] Speaker 1: decry disruptive tactics, or focus on the cost that this
[1:24] Speaker 1: or that protest has inflicted on a business. Articles will
[1:28] Speaker 1: sooner raise an eyebrow at who's paying the activists and
[1:32] Speaker 1: engage with the cause that's driving them.
[1:36] Speaker 2: The reality is that.
[1:37] Speaker 1: The vast majority of climate activists are smart, joyful, deeply
[1:41] Speaker 1: caring individuals who are doing a pretty brave thing by
[1:46] Speaker 1: putting their lives, their livelihoods, and their bodies on the
[1:49] Speaker 1: line for something they believe will protect all of us.
[1:54] Speaker 1: In an effort to rehumanize them. Will be bringing you
[1:57] Speaker 1: their stories directly throughout the series. Today we'll meet Disha Robbie,
[2:04] Speaker 1: the co founder of Friday's for Future India. She's a
[2:08] Speaker 1: bright and charming twenty four year old who's had her
[2:10] Speaker 1: life on hold for more than two years after being
[2:13] Speaker 1: arrested for sedition for participating in a protest connected to
[2:18] Speaker 1: the Farmer's movement in India that's coming up after this
[2:23] Speaker 1: quick break.
[2:39] Speaker 3: And Disha arib I'm a climate justice activist from Bangalore, India.
[2:44] Speaker 2: I am twenty four.
[2:46] Speaker 3: I primarily volunteer with the Friday's Future India and MAPA
[2:51] Speaker 3: and I'm really excited to be here.
[2:53] Speaker 2: My pronouns a shiha.
[2:55] Speaker 1: And maybe we can start with just how you started
[2:58] Speaker 1: to get involved with climate activism in the first place.
[3:01] Speaker 1: What kind of drew you into it.
[3:04] Speaker 2: So it was actually a bunch of things.
[3:06] Speaker 3: Because when I was really young, my grandparents, who are farmers,
[3:10] Speaker 3: still farmers, they were experiencing the water crisis because like
[3:14] Speaker 3: most farmers in India, they were heavily dependent on underground
[3:18] Speaker 3: water and there was depleting and they did have access
[3:22] Speaker 3: to resources or other water resources. And it made me
[3:27] Speaker 3: question when I was very young why this was okay.
[3:31] Speaker 3: And then when I moved places with my mother, it
[3:35] Speaker 3: was the same situation everywhere where water was seen as
[3:40] Speaker 3: almost like a luxury. And it wasn't until I know,
[3:44] Speaker 3: left my city and my state and traveled outside the
[3:48] Speaker 3: state and I realized that this is not actually true
[3:51] Speaker 3: you can just get water whenever you want to, because
[3:55] Speaker 3: in my grandparents house they get limited electricity even now,
[3:58] Speaker 3: like only for a few hours early in the morning
[4:01] Speaker 3: and in the evening, and only then can you access water,
[4:04] Speaker 3: and even then that it's limited water.
[4:07] Speaker 2: And it was when when my mom moved.
[4:10] Speaker 3: Places, we'd have to we had like a shared community
[4:12] Speaker 3: well where she'd have to go fetch water from. And
[4:16] Speaker 3: this was really wild to me, but it was normalized
[4:19] Speaker 3: to a large extent, so I didn't think much of
[4:22] Speaker 3: it until I went out and I was like, wow,
[4:25] Speaker 3: you can just get water any time, which was really
[4:28] Speaker 3: surprising to me. So that's when I began to question
[4:31] Speaker 3: why there is different levels of access to such a
[4:35] Speaker 3: basic necessity. And that's when I went down her rabbit
[4:39] Speaker 3: hole and understood this was because of a the climate crisis,
[4:43] Speaker 3: and also because my state especially depends a lot on
[4:48] Speaker 3: underground water, especially farmers, but not just in my state,
[4:51] Speaker 3: but across the country. Now the situation is better because
[4:54] Speaker 3: they have canals and they started using rainwater harvesting, but
[4:59] Speaker 3: there's just my grandparents, because a situation around the country
[5:02] Speaker 3: is getting worse, and even in the same town, in different.
[5:06] Speaker 2: Parts it's bad.
[5:08] Speaker 3: So a lot of this made me question things, and
[5:12] Speaker 3: that's how I got into it.
[5:14] Speaker 1: That's fascinating. And when did you start getting involved with
[5:18] Speaker 1: Fridays for Future.
[5:19] Speaker 3: So it was in twenty nineteen March when the first
[5:22] Speaker 3: global strike happened. So back then I was still in
[5:25] Speaker 3: college and I was essentially volunteering with a bunch of
[5:30] Speaker 3: environmental movements and a bunch of things that my college
[5:33] Speaker 3: was doing. But I realized that there isn't conversations on
[5:38] Speaker 3: climate and how we're being impacted by climate. There is
[5:41] Speaker 3: a lot of conversation about environmental impacts and deforestation and
[5:45] Speaker 3: biodiversity laws, but not about varying in increasing temperatures. And
[5:51] Speaker 3: that's when I came across Friday's the Future and I
[5:53] Speaker 3: was like, hah, that seems cool, and once again I
[5:57] Speaker 3: went down a rabbit hole and I was like, oh,
[5:59] Speaker 3: this makes a lot of sense, and I essentially just
[6:02] Speaker 3: posted on Instagram saying, Hey, this looks like something cool
[6:06] Speaker 3: that I would really like to start. Would anyone be interested?
[6:11] Speaker 3: And my friend connected me to another person who had
[6:14] Speaker 3: posted something very similar, and the other person she just
[6:19] Speaker 3: so happened to be in my city, and we essentially
[6:22] Speaker 3: started like the Fridays for Future India Instagram page, and
[6:25] Speaker 3: a bunch of other people from different.
[6:27] Speaker 2: Cities reached out. That's how we started.
[6:29] Speaker 3: It was digital at first until like the first strike
[6:33] Speaker 3: we had where we went, and then we started working
[6:36] Speaker 3: on ground more and we worked with a lot of
[6:40] Speaker 3: older environmental movements and learned a lot from them, and Yeah,
[6:44] Speaker 3: I was really life changing because that community taught us
[6:49] Speaker 3: so much and they still continue to teach us so much.
[6:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[6:53] Speaker 1: Okay, so I want to hear about what led up
[6:57] Speaker 1: to your arrest and so have you kind of walked
[7:01] Speaker 1: me through that day and what you thought was going on,
[7:07] Speaker 1: whether it was surprising or you had some knowledge that
[7:09] Speaker 1: this was going to happen, all of that kind of stuff.
[7:14] Speaker 3: So my arrest itself, I'm legally not allowed to talk
[7:19] Speaker 3: about a bunch of things, but I can tell you
[7:21] Speaker 3: what I am allowed to talk about. So when the
[7:24] Speaker 3: Farmer's movement essentially kicked off and they started taking to
[7:29] Speaker 3: the streets, the environmental youth, environmental as well as climate
[7:33] Speaker 3: movements in India, they essentially formed a coalition.
[7:37] Speaker 2: It was called Greens with Farmers.
[7:40] Speaker 3: The Greens was kind of like a dig at the
[7:43] Speaker 3: media because the local media and the national media likes
[7:47] Speaker 3: to call us greens, which is really weird because it
[7:51] Speaker 3: feels like they're not taking us as seriously.
[7:53] Speaker 2: But yeah, we were trying to reclaim that.
[7:55] Speaker 3: So we formed a coalition called Greens with Farmers and
[7:59] Speaker 3: we were working. There were like so many groups involved,
[8:02] Speaker 3: and so many of us were on ground in our
[8:05] Speaker 3: own regions. Some people were in Delhi where a lot
[8:08] Speaker 3: of farmers from across the country had set up camp
[8:12] Speaker 3: to essentially protests because in India, what happens is unless
[8:16] Speaker 3: protests are in Delhi, where it's the capital, where you
[8:20] Speaker 3: know most of the governments are, unless you're seen by them,
[8:23] Speaker 3: you don't actually get heard.
[8:26] Speaker 2: So you could have like a massive.
[8:28] Speaker 3: Protest in the rural region or even an urban region,
[8:32] Speaker 3: but you won't necessite be heard unless it's close to
[8:36] Speaker 3: power in some manner, which is why they had gone
[8:39] Speaker 3: to Delhi. In my own city, they had farmers from
[8:42] Speaker 3: my own city but having multiple protests in various parts
[8:46] Speaker 3: of the city.
[8:47] Speaker 2: I had joined a few of them.
[8:48] Speaker 3: They had invited me to speak at some of them
[8:51] Speaker 3: to showcase you solidarity. So there was a lot going on,
[8:54] Speaker 3: and it was a month's low, like it was so
[8:57] Speaker 3: many months of campaigning, and it began to get international
[9:01] Speaker 3: attention when Rihanna tweeted about it. The funniest thing I
[9:05] Speaker 3: will tell you is once when the police asked me
[9:08] Speaker 3: if I knew Rihanna, and I was like, oh, I
[9:09] Speaker 3: wish I knew Rihanna, And I was in my head,
[9:12] Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, this would be so worth it
[9:14] Speaker 3: if I knew Rihanna. But yeah, and suddenly everyone's talking
[9:20] Speaker 3: about it internationally, which was good because India doesn't like
[9:26] Speaker 3: looking bad in front of international media, and this was
[9:30] Speaker 3: doing exactly that. And then Gretta tweeted about it and
[9:34] Speaker 3: it was going all over the place, and she teeted
[9:38] Speaker 3: the toolkit that I was loosely associated with, and it
[9:45] Speaker 3: was interesting because I didn't think there was anything I
[9:48] Speaker 3: don't I still don't think there was anything wrong with
[9:51] Speaker 3: the toolkit. But the Toolkit essentially was explaining what's happening
[9:56] Speaker 3: to different audiences because there was a deliberate effort by
[10:00] Speaker 3: national media in India to paint the farmers in bad
[10:05] Speaker 3: light or not even talk about it.
[10:07] Speaker 2: So it was both these ends.
[10:09] Speaker 3: So we had to very actively push for their narrative
[10:13] Speaker 3: to be heard.
[10:14] Speaker 2: Which was what the tool kit did.
[10:16] Speaker 3: It linked to some resources and some things the farmers
[10:19] Speaker 3: on ground had written directly or people who were in
[10:24] Speaker 3: touch with them had written. It was being updated with
[10:27] Speaker 3: protests that were happening both in the country and outside
[10:29] Speaker 3: the country. A lot of them were solidarity protests, especially
[10:33] Speaker 3: outside the country obviously, and they had called for a
[10:38] Speaker 3: protest on Republic Day, which is Jan twenty six in India.
[10:42] Speaker 3: It was very last minute and apparently a lot of
[10:47] Speaker 3: this part I'm completely unaware about, and a lot of
[10:51] Speaker 3: international groups had also done the same and that ended
[10:55] Speaker 3: up leading to violence burg in India and in other countries.
[11:00] Speaker 3: I think they essentially spray painted something on the Indian embassis.
[11:06] Speaker 3: I'm not sure about this part, because they accused me
[11:09] Speaker 3: of all these things and I was like, wow, I
[11:10] Speaker 3: had literally no idea. And there was violence because the
[11:14] Speaker 3: police got violent and then the farmers got violent. There
[11:18] Speaker 3: was a huge flash between the two. There were injuries
[11:22] Speaker 3: on both sides. And it was a coincidence that it
[11:26] Speaker 3: was that an international Day of solidarity was called by the.
[11:30] Speaker 2: Climate movements on the same day.
[11:35] Speaker 3: To us because it was like an important day because
[11:37] Speaker 3: it's a Republic Day, so we knew India would be
[11:40] Speaker 3: getting attention generally. I'm guessing the farmers not the same.
[11:44] Speaker 3: But the two days were actually a coincidence. But because
[11:48] Speaker 3: the tool kids said except January which was Republic Day
[11:51] Speaker 3: and which was the day the violence happened, which we
[11:54] Speaker 3: honestly tied to this in any manner. We didn't know
[12:00] Speaker 3: about it until it like after it happened and we
[12:03] Speaker 3: heard about.
[12:04] Speaker 2: It in news.
[12:05] Speaker 3: I actually had a very peaceful Republic Day because it
[12:08] Speaker 3: was a holiday and I just slept in.
[12:10] Speaker 2: I had no idea until the next day.
[12:12] Speaker 3: And I didn't make much of it because a lot
[12:14] Speaker 3: of protests, especially in Delhi, ended up being violent. So
[12:18] Speaker 3: it is concerning, but it isn't news, so I wasn't surprised.
[12:22] Speaker 3: And then one month later it suddenly becoming discussion again.
[12:26] Speaker 3: And the only reason it got so much attention was
[12:30] Speaker 3: because it was mentioned on Republic Day. So it was
[12:34] Speaker 3: seen as a conspiracy where our tool care somehow manufactured
[12:40] Speaker 3: the violence that happened on Republic Day, and that it
[12:43] Speaker 3: led and inspired people to be violent and attacked the
[12:47] Speaker 3: previous not just in India but also outside India.
[12:49] Speaker 2: So I was seen as this master plan to.
[12:53] Speaker 3: Paint India as bad in the eyes of everybody, which
[12:58] Speaker 3: is why we got charged with addition, because it was
[13:00] Speaker 3: seen as a big conspiracy.
[13:03] Speaker 1: The thing that that's how they tried to position it.
[13:06] Speaker 1: Did police just like show up at your house to
[13:09] Speaker 1: arrest you? Were you told to go to the police
[13:12] Speaker 1: station and surrender yourself.
[13:14] Speaker 2: I didn't.
[13:14] Speaker 3: I didn't expected at all. When gratuated it, I think
[13:18] Speaker 3: it would become such a big deal. But suddenly it
[13:21] Speaker 3: blew up and people were pissed, like it didn't blow
[13:25] Speaker 3: up in a good way, and I was like ootion
[13:30] Speaker 3: And suddenly we were being called like really were names.
[13:33] Speaker 3: We were called a toolkit gang. Suddenly toolkit became a
[13:37] Speaker 3: bad one. It was just blowing up, and I'm like,
[13:39] Speaker 3: what is happening? And even then I didn't think it
[13:43] Speaker 3: would actually lead to a case, but the right wing
[13:47] Speaker 3: communities were really pissed with it, and they started making
[13:52] Speaker 3: these really were ties and they were like, this toolkit
[13:57] Speaker 3: was made to defame India internationally.
[14:00] Speaker 2: And I was like what.
[14:02] Speaker 3: So all of this was like news to us, and
[14:05] Speaker 3: some of the information on that was so old, was
[14:08] Speaker 3: contributed by so many people that I didn't even know
[14:11] Speaker 3: half things on that, and they were just finding these
[14:15] Speaker 3: super random things. I remember them being really pissed that
[14:19] Speaker 3: Human Rights Watch had put India's human rights that like
[14:22] Speaker 3: a very low number and they had given a lot
[14:24] Speaker 3: of reasoning, and that pressed them off to I was
[14:28] Speaker 3: hoping it would die down, but the right wing communities
[14:32] Speaker 3: essentially filed case against the creators.
[14:35] Speaker 2: Didn't know who the creators we were.
[14:37] Speaker 3: But the fire basically a first investigation report or just
[14:43] Speaker 3: like what you file when you want to invest in
[14:46] Speaker 3: something and then it becomes.
[14:47] Speaker 2: A case basically.
[14:49] Speaker 3: And then the next day the I think the Deli
[14:52] Speaker 3: Chief of Police or someone I am not sure who exactly,
[14:55] Speaker 3: but someone very higher up than the Teli police is
[14:58] Speaker 3: giving like a press ca conference.
[15:00] Speaker 2: Saying that they will catch the makers off the two
[15:03] Speaker 2: kid and I'm like, and even then.
[15:07] Speaker 3: I wasn't worrying because there is nothing wrong in the toolkit.
[15:12] Speaker 3: So even then I just I just thought it would
[15:14] Speaker 3: die down. But I did end up contacting a bunch
[15:17] Speaker 3: of lawyers who support Friday's for Future India quite a bit,
[15:22] Speaker 3: because this is not the first time we've got in trouble,
[15:24] Speaker 3: especially with the Deli police.
[15:26] Speaker 2: So I contacted the same people and they said the
[15:29] Speaker 2: same thing.
[15:29] Speaker 3: That there is nothing to worry about because it is
[15:33] Speaker 3: a very innocous few pages. So I just stay at
[15:39] Speaker 3: home and I was like, if they want to come
[15:41] Speaker 3: question me, they can, And I was very confident that
[15:44] Speaker 3: I wouldn't get arrested because once again, it is not
[15:48] Speaker 3: a big deal at all.
[15:52] Speaker 2: I was very happy to answer their questions.
[15:54] Speaker 3: I didn't think anything would happen, so when they came,
[15:58] Speaker 3: I wasn't surprised. Had told my mother. At this point,
[16:01] Speaker 3: I was like, if the police come, just.
[16:03] Speaker 2: Contact my lawyers. I was not worried, and I answered
[16:07] Speaker 2: that questions.
[16:08] Speaker 3: I was very cooperative, and they just they just arrested me.
[16:13] Speaker 3: They literally used my paper from my house and my
[16:17] Speaker 3: pen from my house to write out an arrestaurant didn't
[16:21] Speaker 3: come with an arrest warrant. Wow. Yeah, uh they.
[16:28] Speaker 1: Borrow a pen.
[16:29] Speaker 2: Yeah they did, and my mom made them be I'm
[16:34] Speaker 2: so annoyed with made them So that's amazing. Wow, my
[16:45] Speaker 2: own tend at my paper.
[16:50] Speaker 3: And they just know the arrest wantant and have flown
[16:54] Speaker 3: to Delhi. Also, this is mild to me because it's
[16:57] Speaker 3: like the second time I was ever flying flying ever,
[17:01] Speaker 3: and I was just like, what is happening? And I've
[17:03] Speaker 3: never been to Delhi, so it's the fact that they're
[17:05] Speaker 3: accusing me of orchestrating that something that happened to Delhi
[17:10] Speaker 3: before that having ever been there. The first time I
[17:13] Speaker 3: was there was when I was arrested, and I was like,
[17:16] Speaker 3: this is so wise. So I didn't see it coming.
[17:18] Speaker 3: But luckily my lawyers were from Delhi. My mom finally
[17:23] Speaker 3: gained consciousness enough to call them.
[17:27] Speaker 2: The police had given his number to.
[17:30] Speaker 3: My mother, and my mom shared that with the lawyers
[17:32] Speaker 3: and they were calling to check what's going to happen
[17:36] Speaker 3: next and all of that, and yeah, that's pretty much it.
[17:39] Speaker 3: So I didn't think i'd actually get arrested at all.
[17:42] Speaker 3: I was having a very peaceful day. It was a Saturday,
[17:45] Speaker 3: so I was just like, yeah, it's okay.
[17:49] Speaker 2: I didn't see it coming. I mean, I knew that
[17:52] Speaker 2: question me.
[17:53] Speaker 3: They literally flew down from Delhi. Delhi is on the
[17:57] Speaker 3: other side of the country. Bangalore is a in the south,
[18:00] Speaker 3: Delly's in the north.
[18:01] Speaker 1: But how long is the flight for you to go
[18:05] Speaker 1: to Deli?
[18:05] Speaker 2: It's two and a half hours. Wow. I was freaking out.
[18:10] Speaker 3: My mom's now flown before, she has Yeah, she flew
[18:14] Speaker 3: for the first time this year, I think, and she
[18:17] Speaker 3: has never flown before except for like the young people
[18:20] Speaker 3: we work with. We know nobody else in Deli. But
[18:23] Speaker 3: luckily my lawyers were based out of Delhi. But it
[18:25] Speaker 3: was like a wild situation.
[18:27] Speaker 2: Wow.
[18:28] Speaker 1: And then how long were you held?
[18:31] Speaker 3: So it was ten days, which I'm so glad because
[18:35] Speaker 3: now it seems like such a small number. But back
[18:37] Speaker 3: then I didn't know it would be ten days because
[18:40] Speaker 3: it were it's these are very serious charges and no
[18:44] Speaker 3: one gets out in ten days, and it was only
[18:46] Speaker 3: because of like the massive amounts of public pressure and
[18:50] Speaker 3: everyone protesting and making a huge fuss about it. I
[18:54] Speaker 3: think that genuinely played a huge role in keeping me
[18:57] Speaker 3: safe in prison and also just making sure I got
[19:00] Speaker 3: out soon.
[19:02] Speaker 1: So what's the situation now?
[19:05] Speaker 3: Oh my god, I had a hearing today and I
[19:09] Speaker 3: have such sad news.
[19:11] Speaker 2: So technically.
[19:13] Speaker 3: The investigation is still on, so it's going nowhere. And
[19:19] Speaker 3: also because the police suddenly said, oh they've started investigation again,
[19:23] Speaker 3: I don't know what that means because they never really
[19:26] Speaker 3: call me for anything. I just have to live in
[19:29] Speaker 3: this in between where I have limited freedom.
[19:33] Speaker 1: Are you able to tell me what the conditions of
[19:36] Speaker 1: your bail are? I know you have to ask permission
[19:39] Speaker 1: to travel. What are the other conditions?
[19:42] Speaker 2: There are a bunch of things.
[19:43] Speaker 3: I don't remember most of them because they don't restrict
[19:47] Speaker 3: my movement as much. They're not allowed to travel is
[19:51] Speaker 3: one thing. I'm supposed to appear before the investigating agency,
[19:56] Speaker 3: which isn't telly anytime they want me to.
[19:59] Speaker 1: You have to pay if they are you need to
[20:02] Speaker 1: come to Deli every time I.
[20:03] Speaker 3: Travel to Delli, I'm paying for it out of my pocket,
[20:06] Speaker 3: and I'm like, staying there, I have to pay her
[20:09] Speaker 3: paper out of my pocket.
[20:11] Speaker 2: They are not paying for it yees. Yeah, and it
[20:16] Speaker 2: is very expensive. Oh.
[20:19] Speaker 3: Another thing is I am not supposed to interact with
[20:22] Speaker 3: my co aqus, But I'm also not supposed to interact
[20:25] Speaker 3: with people who are suspects in the case. And there
[20:29] Speaker 3: is no list of who the suspects are. They can
[20:32] Speaker 3: keep adding whoever they.
[20:33] Speaker 2: Want as suspects.
[20:36] Speaker 3: And the fun part is that Greta is a suspect
[20:40] Speaker 3: in the case and I'm like, okay, So even though
[20:44] Speaker 3: this time we were at a lot of events together,
[20:48] Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to interact with her because that will
[20:50] Speaker 3: get me in trouble back home, and that will get
[20:53] Speaker 3: my limited privileges revoked and it would look really bad
[20:57] Speaker 3: for my case.
[20:58] Speaker 2: So I'm not allowed to inter act with suspects.
[21:01] Speaker 3: And there's no list of who they considered suspects, so
[21:03] Speaker 3: it's very ambiguous. So if I'm interacting with someone they
[21:08] Speaker 3: may not like and that person might become a suspect.
[21:13] Speaker 2: Wow.
[21:14] Speaker 1: So you're just sort of in this limbo in between
[21:17] Speaker 1: because they supposedly have started this investigation, but you don't
[21:20] Speaker 1: know how long it's going to go on or you know,
[21:25] Speaker 1: and then I mean, I don't know. Once they complete
[21:28] Speaker 1: the investigation, then what happens. Then maybe there's a charge sheet,
[21:32] Speaker 1: but maybe they.
[21:32] Speaker 2: Just drop it. I have no idea.
[21:35] Speaker 1: Wow, that's so scary. And this has been going on
[21:40] Speaker 1: for how long?
[21:42] Speaker 2: For two years?
[21:43] Speaker 3: And I have no idea when it will And I
[21:45] Speaker 3: don't know when their investigation will get over, so.
[21:50] Speaker 2: I don't know how long it will take.
[21:52] Speaker 3: There is no deadline I have the it's the uncertainty
[21:55] Speaker 3: that's annoying because I just don't know what will happen.
[21:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's really hard. I'm sorry to shut that. Yeah, wow,
[22:05] Speaker 1: how does your family feel about this? Now? Are they
[22:08] Speaker 1: mad at you? Are they mad at the authorities? What's
[22:11] Speaker 1: life like living in your house?
[22:12] Speaker 2: Right now?
[22:14] Speaker 3: They're definitely more mad at the authorities than they are
[22:17] Speaker 3: at me. But like even now when I just generally
[22:23] Speaker 3: don't tell them much about my work for their own
[22:27] Speaker 3: sanity and mind, but like when quote thinks I do
[22:31] Speaker 3: tell them, and today's auto, my mom is just very
[22:34] Speaker 3: disappointed and upset because she.
[22:36] Speaker 2: Was just like, how long are they going to do this.
[22:38] Speaker 2: How long is this going to go on for?
[22:40] Speaker 3: So she is very upset what the authorities and the
[22:47] Speaker 3: injustice of it all, and she'll randomly be like, please
[22:51] Speaker 3: don't do any of this again where there is a
[22:55] Speaker 3: slight blame on me.
[22:56] Speaker 2: But I'm just like, what did I do? It's not
[22:58] Speaker 2: like I did anything wrong.
[22:59] Speaker 3: And then she's like, yeah, I know, but you know
[23:01] Speaker 3: how the environment is, you know what the political scenario is.
[23:05] Speaker 3: So even though she recognizes that it's not my fault,
[23:08] Speaker 3: she'll that won't stop her from, you know, advising me
[23:13] Speaker 3: to not be an activist because she's just scared. But
[23:17] Speaker 3: at the same time, she is very proud also because
[23:19] Speaker 3: when again I don't tell her things, but it's unfortunately
[23:25] Speaker 3: she googles me a lot, which is not good for
[23:28] Speaker 3: her army. And if there's like some article that comes
[23:32] Speaker 3: out and she'll she'll see that I've done.
[23:34] Speaker 2: Something cool and she's like, oh my god, I'm so
[23:36] Speaker 2: proud of it.
[23:37] Speaker 3: So she goes back and forth on her stance, so
[23:41] Speaker 3: she'll be in the same sentence, she'll like, oh, I'm
[23:43] Speaker 3: so happy and proud of if you look at how
[23:45] Speaker 3: other countries treat you and look at out this country
[23:47] Speaker 3: treats you. Yeah, maybe you should just once all of
[23:50] Speaker 3: this over, Maybe you should just go somewhere, go study somewhere,
[23:54] Speaker 3: leave or something like that. Yeah, but don't do any
[23:58] Speaker 3: of this anymore this country because this country won't appreciate it.
[24:02] Speaker 3: They've come down very heavily on you and all of that.
[24:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. Are you are you allowed to
[24:09] Speaker 1: continue to do activism under your current situation or is
[24:14] Speaker 1: that part of the bail conditions too?
[24:16] Speaker 2: Oh?
[24:17] Speaker 3: I know they can't just say I can't do activism.
[24:21] Speaker 3: That would be like a bunch of like direct quilation
[24:25] Speaker 3: of a bunch of constitutional rights.
[24:27] Speaker 2: So no, but.
[24:30] Speaker 3: I think they loosely say that I am not allowed
[24:33] Speaker 3: to do similar activities.
[24:35] Speaker 2: That would be fame India.
[24:39] Speaker 1: It just all sounds really hard beyond what happened to you.
[24:43] Speaker 1: Are you seeing an increase in efforts to silence or
[24:51] Speaker 1: suppress or just downplay environmental activism or climate activism in India?
[24:59] Speaker 2: Oh?
[24:59] Speaker 3: This can talk endlessly about there has been an increase
[25:04] Speaker 3: in how they are dealing with environmental activist defenders. I
[25:10] Speaker 3: think Global Witness is actually named as one of like
[25:13] Speaker 3: top ten countries to be like top in most dangerous.
[25:17] Speaker 2: Countries to be like an environmental activist.
[25:19] Speaker 3: A defender in and they're not like directly picking up
[25:23] Speaker 3: activists from like protest sites. They don't normally do that
[25:26] Speaker 3: unless it gets violent or as long as it's a
[25:29] Speaker 3: peaceful protest, they'll let it happen.
[25:32] Speaker 2: And then they will file charges.
[25:34] Speaker 3: On people later on, and they'll be pretty severe charges
[25:37] Speaker 3: or arrest people from homes because then there's less of
[25:41] Speaker 3: like a media attention. So they're very clever that way.
[25:45] Speaker 3: In an environmental law firm, And how was the i
[25:49] Speaker 3: think founder, lead person in the in the law firm,
[25:53] Speaker 3: He is amazing. He's led environmental litigation in India for
[25:58] Speaker 3: a really long time. He's been supporting movements across the country,
[26:04] Speaker 3: especially against anti mining deforestation issues, both of which are
[26:08] Speaker 3: very deeply tied. So there's obviously pissed off the government
[26:11] Speaker 3: and they've threatened his they've cut off their foreign license.
[26:15] Speaker 3: He's been slapped with a bunch of charges which limits
[26:19] Speaker 3: what the work he does, which is very concerning because.
[26:24] Speaker 2: Environmental litigation in India is.
[26:26] Speaker 3: Like one of our last resorts to actually see some
[26:30] Speaker 3: positive climate action, and even that avenue has been closed
[26:37] Speaker 3: or as being close to us right now because they're
[26:40] Speaker 3: weakening environmental regulations. They are being very clever about how
[26:47] Speaker 3: they actually environmental activism because they're cutting off our limbs.
[26:51] Speaker 3: They're not attacking us in public, but they're they're being
[26:55] Speaker 3: very strategic about the kind of tools we use, and
[26:58] Speaker 3: they're cutting that off for us. That was environmental litigation
[27:02] Speaker 3: that was using these environmental laws, which aren't the best,
[27:06] Speaker 3: I will admit, but they are better than what they
[27:08] Speaker 3: are right now.
[27:09] Speaker 2: And right now that like.
[27:11] Speaker 3: They give free rein to businesses to essentially build any
[27:16] Speaker 3: kind of infrastructure in eco sensitive zones, and this includes
[27:21] Speaker 3: like mining. They've been really pushing for deep sea mining.
[27:24] Speaker 3: Protests against that are seen as protests against development and
[27:30] Speaker 3: indirectly an attack against the country. So any form of
[27:34] Speaker 3: protest is quickly nationalized and framed into a narrative where
[27:40] Speaker 3: it's seen as a threat against the country, which makes
[27:42] Speaker 3: up all the nationalists. So it's no longer an environmental issue,
[27:46] Speaker 3: it's an issue against the country itself.
[27:49] Speaker 1: Do you think it would get to a point where
[27:51] Speaker 1: you would want to leave or you like, no, I'm
[27:54] Speaker 1: not going to let them force me out of my.
[27:56] Speaker 4: Country, Okay, So I keep getting ask this question a lot, and.
[28:01] Speaker 3: I absolutely won't be leaving, and I'm very adamant about it,
[28:06] Speaker 3: because like, this is my country.
[28:10] Speaker 4: This is my country as much as it is there,
[28:13] Speaker 4: and I'm going to stay here and make their lives miserable,
[28:16] Speaker 4: and I know they will make mine too, but I'm
[28:18] Speaker 4: just I'm going to continue doing my work, which and
[28:21] Speaker 4: my intention isn't even to make their lives miserable.
[28:24] Speaker 3: My intention is just to get climate justice. But apparently
[28:30] Speaker 3: doing that makes their lives miserable.
[28:32] Speaker 2: So I guess it is what it is. I would
[28:35] Speaker 2: really like to.
[28:37] Speaker 3: Travel and study outside maybe maybe maybe For me, it's
[28:43] Speaker 3: not even about do I want to do it, It's
[28:45] Speaker 3: about having the freedom to.
[28:47] Speaker 2: Do it right. So I would like to potentially have
[28:50] Speaker 2: the freedom to do that one day.
[28:52] Speaker 3: So I might live outside the country for a year
[28:55] Speaker 3: or two, but I would always want to come back.
[28:58] Speaker 2: When I first went to London for the first time.
[29:00] Speaker 3: Ever, it was a massive cultural shock to me that
[29:05] Speaker 3: you can drink tabs.
[29:06] Speaker 5: Of here, you like get a fund for diseases, and
[29:15] Speaker 5: like you could walk because you have payments.
[29:17] Speaker 3: We have pavements too, but.
[29:19] Speaker 5: There are things on our pavements on ours them on
[29:24] Speaker 5: the sub construction going on on our pavements, but most
[29:28] Speaker 5: of the time the payments just don't exist.
[29:31] Speaker 2: So to me it was it was why.
[29:36] Speaker 3: So I would really like to go outside the country
[29:39] Speaker 3: to study how that exists and how like London has
[29:43] Speaker 3: such a good metro system.
[29:45] Speaker 2: I know it's like it.
[29:45] Speaker 3: Charges a lot, but it's like really well connected.
[29:48] Speaker 2: We don't have that in Deli.
[29:50] Speaker 3: We do, but not in my own city and not
[29:52] Speaker 3: in any other city. I think we don't have the
[29:55] Speaker 3: best public transport, and now that blew my mind. So
[30:00] Speaker 3: I would really like to understand that better. So because
[30:03] Speaker 3: I'm I'm very interested and having better infrastructure in a
[30:07] Speaker 3: way that doesn't like destroy the environment, because that's what
[30:13] Speaker 3: their defense is normally that we're doing this for developing
[30:17] Speaker 3: infrastructure and the quality of life. But yeah, no, I'm
[30:23] Speaker 3: going to stay here and make every un miserable. And
[30:26] Speaker 3: my mom would hate it. Outside the country, she would
[30:29] Speaker 3: absolutely hate it. She doesn't speak the language, she probably
[30:33] Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to get along with anyone.
[30:35] Speaker 2: So I don't hate it.
[30:37] Speaker 3: She's told me she'd hate it, and yeah, yeah, I
[30:42] Speaker 3: hate it.
[30:42] Speaker 4: And the food was so bad.
[30:46] Speaker 3: Even the Indian restaurants in the.
[30:49] Speaker 2: Different places I went to, and I was like, this
[30:52] Speaker 2: is not it.
[30:56] Speaker 3: So yeah, no, I would like to say her for
[30:59] Speaker 3: very special reason, said I really don't mind that the savage.
[31:05] Speaker 1: I love it. That's it for this time. We'll be
[31:11] Speaker 1: back next week with two more stories from this series,
[31:15] Speaker 1: so make sure you come back for that.
[31:19] Speaker 5: M

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