# Update: Steven Donziger Faces Criminal Contempt with No Representation

An episode of [Drilled](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1439735906), 6 Nov 2020, 25 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/SxlTEPDY7xDg35RXkASs/pdrl.fm/3e5572/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/9a7ab5ee-ce11-48ff-a544-b3ec00ea9b1e/81e20e94-f7f7-4527-8e26-b3ec00f37fe1/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=7f82f371-6316-4ea6-a108-b3ec00ea9b2d

New York District Court Judge Loretta Preska has denied repeated requests to delay Steven Donziger's criminal contempt trial, leaving him without legal representation. He'll stand trial Monday November 9, after which he could face six months of jail time. Reporter Karen Savage updates on the latest and we hear from attorneys Lauren Regan and Ronald Kuby about the precedent this ruiling sets. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:10] Speaker 1: Hey, Drilled listeners, we have a special update episode for
[0:15] Speaker 1: you today. Stephen Donziger's contempt trial, which we opened this
[0:19] Speaker 1: season with, is about to start on Monday. There's been
[0:23] Speaker 1: a ton of back and forth between him and the judges.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Several requests for a delay have been denied. Donziger was
[0:31] Speaker 1: requesting that the trial be delayed mostly so that he
[0:34] Speaker 1: could have a lawyer present. So at this point, the
[0:37] Speaker 1: trial is happening on Monday, and he will not have
[0:40] Speaker 1: a lawyer present as far as we know as of
[0:44] Speaker 1: the Thursday before. He is being held in contempt as
[0:49] Speaker 1: a result of a civil contempt charge that basically came
[0:52] Speaker 1: out of this reco judgment against him and some of
[0:57] Speaker 1: the plaintiffs and some of the other plaintiffs attorneys in
[1:01] Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Part of the judgment in that case was
[1:06] Speaker 1: that Donziger and a few other of the named defendants
[1:11] Speaker 1: were not allowed to profit in any way from the
[1:15] Speaker 1: collection of the judgment. In the Ecuadorian case, Chevron suspected
[1:21] Speaker 1: that Donziger was doing something that ran a foul of
[1:24] Speaker 1: that ruling. They asked Judge Caplan to do something about it.
[1:30] Speaker 1: They asked for what's called post judgment discovery, which is
[1:35] Speaker 1: to be allowed to kind of look into it and
[1:37] Speaker 1: see if Donziger was in fact making money off of
[1:42] Speaker 1: getting this judgment. Judge Caplan granted that they asked for
[1:48] Speaker 1: Donziger to hand over his computer and his phone and
[1:51] Speaker 1: various other things. He refused. That's how the civil contempt
[1:55] Speaker 1: charge came about. And then when Donziger continued to refuse
[2:00] Speaker 1: to hand over his devices because he said it would
[2:03] Speaker 1: violate attorney client privilege, Judge Kaplan filed a criminal contempt
[2:08] Speaker 1: charge against him. That is the reason that he's been
[2:13] Speaker 1: on house arrest since August twenty nineteen, so over a
[2:18] Speaker 1: year at this point. My co reporter on this series,
[2:22] Speaker 1: Karen Savage, has been following this part of the story
[2:25] Speaker 1: very closely, and she's joining me today to bring us
[2:28] Speaker 1: an update on where we're at now and what to
[2:31] Speaker 1: expect on Monday. That's all coming up right after this
[2:36] Speaker 1: quick break, I want to tell you about one of
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[3:44] Speaker 2: Hi, Karen, Hey, Amy, how are you?
[3:46] Speaker 3: I'm good? I'm good.
[3:49] Speaker 1: Remind people what exactly these contempt charges came out of,
[3:54] Speaker 1: both the civil and the criminal.
[3:58] Speaker 4: Civil content charging is stemmed from, of course, the recal
[4:03] Speaker 4: case that was filed against Stephen and the plaintiffs and
[4:08] Speaker 4: really almost anybody that was connected with that case in
[4:11] Speaker 4: Ecuador by Chevron, and then the ruling in twenty fourteen
[4:15] Speaker 4: by Judge Lewis Kaplan was that, you know, that judgment
[4:18] Speaker 4: was procured through corruption and fraud and wasn't enforceable in
[4:22] Speaker 4: the United States. So one of the things that was
[4:25] Speaker 4: ordered by Judge Kaplan was that Steven Donziger and some
[4:29] Speaker 4: of the other defendants would not be able to profit
[4:33] Speaker 4: from the collection of the judgment. And so as time
[4:38] Speaker 4: wore on, Chevron kind of pushed back and said, you know,
[4:43] Speaker 4: we think this guy is trying to profit from the
[4:46] Speaker 4: collection of.
[4:47] Speaker 2: This judgment, and so they asked for.
[4:51] Speaker 4: You know, they went back and forth in court and
[4:52] Speaker 4: eventually asked for post judgment discovery.
[4:55] Speaker 1: Which, yeah, so just to like for people who don't
[4:58] Speaker 1: know what discovery is, they're basically asking, like to poke
[5:01] Speaker 1: around and see if he is in factoring to profit
[5:04] Speaker 1: from this judgment, right right.
[5:06] Speaker 4: And so you know it, Eventually they Chevron asked for
[5:10] Speaker 4: civil contempt charges, which the judge agreed to, and in
[5:14] Speaker 4: the end asked Stephen and said, you know, look, you
[5:17] Speaker 4: need to turn over your devices for forensic examination.
[5:20] Speaker 2: And there were some other things too.
[5:21] Speaker 4: I think they wanted him to turn over his passport,
[5:23] Speaker 4: they wanted him to sign off on some paperworker related
[5:27] Speaker 4: to the case in Ecuador. And so I think his
[5:31] Speaker 4: biggest issue here, and actually it's really important point to make,
[5:35] Speaker 4: is that he's always said, if the second Circuit says
[5:39] Speaker 4: I need to do this, I will, So he's refusing
[5:43] Speaker 4: to comply with the lower courts order to turn this
[5:47] Speaker 4: stuff over. But with the caveat that, but if it's
[5:51] Speaker 4: confirmed by the second circuit, Okay, once you turn over
[5:55] Speaker 4: your computer and your phone and all this stuff for imaging,
[5:58] Speaker 4: you can't then take it back. Right. Once Chevron has
[6:01] Speaker 4: all this stuff and has seen it, they're not gonna
[6:03] Speaker 4: unsee it. So anyway, there was back and forth. Once
[6:06] Speaker 4: the civil contempt charges were filed. There was back and
[6:08] Speaker 4: forth between you know, Donziger, who's like, I can't do this,
[6:13] Speaker 4: it will endanger the folks at Ecuador, and then you know,
[6:17] Speaker 4: he just he refused, and eventually Chevron kept asking for
[6:21] Speaker 4: the civil contempt which was ordered, and in twenty nineteen,
[6:27] Speaker 4: in the summer, Kaplan filed criminal contempt charges and then
[6:32] Speaker 4: ordered them to appear. I think it was early August
[6:35] Speaker 4: in front of Judge Loretta Prescott.
[6:38] Speaker 2: So that's how they ended up there.
[6:40] Speaker 1: So I know, we have some news from Donziger's criminal
[6:44] Speaker 1: contempt proceedings, which we started this season talking about, and
[6:48] Speaker 1: I was hoping you could kind of tell me what's
[6:50] Speaker 1: happening now. I know they've asked for some extensions and
[6:53] Speaker 1: some things have been going on. What's the latest.
[6:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, So he's been asking for an extension until early
[7:01] Speaker 5: December since late summer for a variety of reasons, you know,
[7:06] Speaker 5: one of which is the COVID nineteen crisis.
[7:08] Speaker 2: You know, just the safety of people being in.
[7:11] Speaker 4: An enclosed courtroom for potentially two or three weeks, however
[7:15] Speaker 4: long the trial takes. So there's that consideration to safety.
[7:18] Speaker 4: And then you know, in that same vein is that
[7:22] Speaker 4: the witness many of his witnesses are in Ecuador or
[7:26] Speaker 4: I think there's one in Spain, in different places, and
[7:28] Speaker 4: so just travel there back and forth is not possible.
[7:32] Speaker 4: But the judge has just repeatedly denied request to move
[7:37] Speaker 4: the trial to that December date.
[7:40] Speaker 2: And the December date was actually brought up because he's had.
[7:45] Speaker 4: A number of couple of his attorneys were disqualified because
[7:48] Speaker 4: of their previous involvement in some of the stuff that's
[7:51] Speaker 4: going to be at the heart of this trial, and
[7:54] Speaker 4: a couple one has withdrawn and another one is like
[7:56] Speaker 4: eighty seven, and he's worried about the COVID crisis, and
[7:59] Speaker 4: so can't, you know, can't represent Steven. So he right
[8:02] Speaker 4: now just has one attorney, Lauren Ragan, who's amazing, but
[8:07] Speaker 4: she is in Oregon and is trying to decide whether
[8:11] Speaker 4: or not she can be there in person.
[8:13] Speaker 3: It's just been so bizarre, Like I've you know, since
[8:17] Speaker 3: becoming the last of the lawyers on his team.
[8:21] Speaker 4: You know, I thought by you.
[8:22] Speaker 3: Know, taking kind of a respectful professional approach and just
[8:26] Speaker 3: sort of saying like I'm the only lawyer and I'm
[8:29] Speaker 3: in Oregon and we have all these Ecuadorian witnesses, Like
[8:33] Speaker 3: what are we going to do? You know, I assume
[8:36] Speaker 3: I mean almost every other federal court that I'm in
[8:39] Speaker 3: right now, which I have three other federal court cases
[8:43] Speaker 3: of California, one in Iowa, and one in Colorado, and
[8:47] Speaker 3: all of them have punted big selony, you know, major
[8:52] Speaker 3: case trials to like march, you know, one we have
[8:56] Speaker 3: a status called in December just to reset it again.
[8:59] Speaker 3: Like all federal courts are just sort of like, we
[9:02] Speaker 3: don't want you in our space. And if the client
[9:06] Speaker 3: isn't demanding a trial now, you know, like if they're
[9:09] Speaker 3: not in custody and you know, demanding a trial, the
[9:13] Speaker 3: courts are just sort of like, great, we don't have
[9:16] Speaker 3: to deal with you right now, you know, by bye, right.
[9:19] Speaker 3: The fact that this court is prioritizing a petty misdemeanor
[9:24] Speaker 3: just really kind of illustrates the level of vindictiveness and
[9:28] Speaker 3: retaliation that's going on here. And I think also just
[9:32] Speaker 3: like you know, the power of Chevron to influence the
[9:37] Speaker 3: legal system has been pretty daunting.
[9:41] Speaker 4: But even before we back up, because in August, like
[9:45] Speaker 4: they kind of realized that this was going to be
[9:47] Speaker 4: somewhat of the situation. So Ronald Kooby from New York,
[9:52] Speaker 4: who's a pretty well known attorney here, had volunteered to
[9:57] Speaker 4: represent Stephen pro bono. But you know, as do, his
[10:00] Speaker 4: calendar is busy. He's a really good player in his talent.
[10:04] Speaker 4: He's got things planned out.
[10:05] Speaker 6: When we're talking about a defendant who is on home
[10:09] Speaker 6: confinement charges that are among the most minor or the
[10:15] Speaker 6: least serious that can be found. We are in the
[10:18] Speaker 6: middle of a pandemic, and he has a far flung
[10:22] Speaker 6: legal team that said in the summer, we can't try
[10:27] Speaker 6: the case in September. You know that, Judge, Let's put
[10:29] Speaker 6: it on for December seventh, where he can have council
[10:32] Speaker 6: of choice who's here in New York, avoiding the mature
[10:35] Speaker 6: problems unless the city is locked down again. It's extraordinary,
[10:38] Speaker 6: it's unprecedented. I've never seen such totally reasonable requests be denied,
[10:47] Speaker 6: and especially denied in such a nasty fashion.
[10:50] Speaker 2: And eventually the trial, which was, like you said, schedule.
[10:53] Speaker 4: For early September, was moved until initially it was scheduled.
[10:57] Speaker 2: For election day to start November.
[11:00] Speaker 4: And so Stephen and Laura Reagan and them are like,
[11:04] Speaker 4: you know, we can't do.
[11:04] Speaker 6: That, and this judge said, oh, my mistake, I forgot
[11:08] Speaker 6: it was November third. I mean, this judge is a
[11:11] Speaker 6: member of the Federalist Society. Nobody forgot this election is
[11:16] Speaker 6: November third. If there's one date it is seared into
[11:20] Speaker 6: American consciousness is November third. So then she changed it
[11:27] Speaker 6: instead of to December seventh, she changed it to November fourth.
[11:30] Speaker 1: So then initially she changed it to November fourth, and
[11:33] Speaker 1: then there was another request for delay. And now where
[11:37] Speaker 1: are we at.
[11:38] Speaker 4: So the next request for delay was really because of
[11:41] Speaker 4: these witnesses couldn't get to New York. And you know,
[11:44] Speaker 4: with the COVID nineteen crisis getting worse and worse, New
[11:47] Speaker 4: York is actually fairly doing fairly well with that, but
[11:52] Speaker 4: other places are not.
[11:53] Speaker 2: And so you know, the travel restrictions from other places
[11:56] Speaker 2: to New York are increasing, so.
[11:59] Speaker 4: In order to accommodate the witnesses who are now going
[12:02] Speaker 4: to have to testify remotely.
[12:05] Speaker 2: She ordered the delay.
[12:06] Speaker 4: She allowed a five day delay to kind of figure
[12:08] Speaker 4: out what the parameters are going to be for what
[12:10] Speaker 4: the procedures will be for video witnesses. So that's kind
[12:15] Speaker 4: of in the process. Now there's been some kind of
[12:17] Speaker 4: back and forth on that, and I think she just
[12:19] Speaker 4: issued an order today kind of clarifying what her perspective
[12:24] Speaker 4: is on that. And so it's scheduled to start on Monday.
[12:28] Speaker 1: The trial is scheduled to start on Monday, November ninth, right,
[12:31] Speaker 1: that's right. And I know Reagan submitted a request to
[12:36] Speaker 1: basically remove herself because she wouldn't be able to come,
[12:41] Speaker 1: and PRESCA denied that. Right, So why is that, I'm not.
[12:45] Speaker 4: Exactly sure, other than the fact that it's so late,
[12:49] Speaker 4: why that delay or why that was rejected, But it
[12:55] Speaker 4: was and it seems, you know, I'm clearly not a lawyer,
[12:59] Speaker 4: but when attorneys. One of Laura Regan's problems or issues
[13:05] Speaker 4: with this and reasons for wanting to be withdrawn was
[13:07] Speaker 4: that she felt uncomfortable representing don Zigger in a different
[13:13] Speaker 4: court where she's not used to practicing in a different
[13:15] Speaker 4: state where she doesn't live. And the normal procedure is
[13:19] Speaker 4: that when attorneys do that, you know, attorneys will go
[13:21] Speaker 4: from state to state or whatever.
[13:23] Speaker 1: But they'll have like local council too, and Ronald QB
[13:27] Speaker 1: is supposed to be that guy. But they won't delay
[13:29] Speaker 1: the trial till he can be there.
[13:32] Speaker 4: Right And I think another one of her concerns is
[13:34] Speaker 4: that she came into this case I believe it was
[13:37] Speaker 4: early July, maybe late June, and with the understanding that
[13:41] Speaker 4: she would be working with a team of other lawyers,
[13:44] Speaker 4: and she, I don't think ever planned on being the
[13:47] Speaker 4: I know she didn't plan on being the only one
[13:49] Speaker 4: to work on this case.
[13:51] Speaker 2: And so that I think is something.
[13:52] Speaker 4: Where she feels like, you know, she needs time to
[13:55] Speaker 4: get herself completely prepared. And this is a huge case
[13:58] Speaker 4: that's been going on in some forms since nineteen ninety three,
[14:01] Speaker 4: and so that's understandable.
[14:03] Speaker 1: The other thing that Ronald talked to me about, and
[14:05] Speaker 1: I don't know if Lauren talked to you about this too,
[14:08] Speaker 1: but was that you know, a lot of this is
[14:11] Speaker 1: really setting up any decision PRESCA comes to for for appeal,
[14:18] Speaker 1: and in fact, they've already appealed to the Second Circuit
[14:22] Speaker 1: over some of the earlier things that were not addressed,
[14:26] Speaker 1: and Ronald QB seemed to think that that basically the
[14:32] Speaker 1: appeals court was saying, like, come back to us once
[14:35] Speaker 1: the decision is made. So it's just it's I mean,
[14:38] Speaker 1: that's that's part of the reason that judges will often
[14:41] Speaker 1: coordinate with lawyers because one of the easiest ways to
[14:44] Speaker 1: reverse a decision on appeal is lack of access to counsel.
[14:49] Speaker 1: It's a pretty like fundamental part of the legal system.
[14:53] Speaker 4: Right, and you brought up a second circuit, which I
[14:55] Speaker 4: think is another really important point is that the civil
[14:59] Speaker 4: contempt charges that are the underpinning of the criminal charges
[15:03] Speaker 4: are under appeal. Those oral arguments were heard maybe September,
[15:09] Speaker 4: but the decision hasn't hasn't come out yet.
[15:12] Speaker 2: So if the Second Circuit.
[15:14] Speaker 4: Were to decide in Donziger's favor, then the whole thing
[15:18] Speaker 4: is moved. There. You know, there are no criminal contempt
[15:21] Speaker 4: charges if there were no civil contempt charges, So I
[15:24] Speaker 4: think that's a really big deal that I'm not completely
[15:27] Speaker 4: sure how common that is that they.
[15:29] Speaker 2: Don't wait for that appeal.
[15:30] Speaker 1: So there's six different charges but all together, the maximum
[15:35] Speaker 1: sentence that he would receive is six months in jail
[15:39] Speaker 1: or five thousand dollars, which is kind of crazy because
[15:43] Speaker 1: he had to put up eight hundred thousand dollars in
[15:46] Speaker 1: bail and he's been on house arrest for over a year.
[15:51] Speaker 1: They have some funny tape from Ronald about that.
[15:55] Speaker 6: Let's remember what's at stake here. These are six federal
[16:01] Speaker 6: Class B misdemeanors. Yes, they are, you know, a step
[16:07] Speaker 6: above smoking pot in a national park, but a step
[16:13] Speaker 6: below almost every other federal crime you've ever heard of
[16:16] Speaker 6: in your life. The maximum penalty Donziger is facing is
[16:22] Speaker 6: six months in jail. So it's not as though this
[16:26] Speaker 6: is a trial of El Choppo that must go forward.
[16:32] Speaker 6: For the massive security procedures, in the concerns that are
[16:36] Speaker 6: all around us about you know, due process. The eyes
[16:40] Speaker 6: of the world are making sure that El Choppo goes
[16:42] Speaker 6: to trial. He's the head of this car.
[16:44] Speaker 4: Now.
[16:44] Speaker 6: Oh, these are a bunch of crappy little misdemeanors.
[16:49] Speaker 1: In some ways, I feel like Chevron shoots themselves in
[16:51] Speaker 1: the foot because whatever legit complaint they may have had,
[16:56] Speaker 1: this is just so like, so far, Yeah, totally.
[17:02] Speaker 4: And then like he's like Steven Donoker said, He's like,
[17:04] Speaker 4: this is retaliatory.
[17:05] Speaker 1: And it looks like that. You know, It's like, even
[17:08] Speaker 1: if it didn't start that way, it now looks that
[17:11] Speaker 1: way because it is so extreme. And then you have
[17:15] Speaker 1: like this judge who's been told that the US Attorney
[17:19] Speaker 1: doesn't even want to try the case. At that point,
[17:22] Speaker 1: most judges just let something go, you know. But then
[17:26] Speaker 1: to go and find a private a private prosecutor firm,
[17:31] Speaker 1: and then the fact that they have ties to Chevron,
[17:33] Speaker 1: like it just looks bad.
[17:35] Speaker 2: I don't remember who.
[17:36] Speaker 4: One of the people I talked to or read something
[17:38] Speaker 4: from said, you know there are New.
[17:41] Speaker 2: York we have that's Ronald QB. Yes, yeah, there are
[17:45] Speaker 2: prosecutors everywhere.
[17:47] Speaker 4: Why not pick someone who has absolutely nothing to do
[17:49] Speaker 4: with Chevron, who has nothing to do with anything, and
[17:51] Speaker 4: ask them to.
[17:52] Speaker 1: Prosecute Yeah, I'm going to play some tape from Ronald
[17:55] Speaker 1: about that too.
[17:56] Speaker 6: Well. The Southern District of New York was asked by
[17:58] Speaker 6: Judge Camplan to take over the prosecution and they said, no, no,
[18:04] Speaker 6: we don't have the resources to spare right now. That
[18:09] Speaker 6: was undoubtedly bullshit. They have all the resources they need.
[18:14] Speaker 6: It is, you know, a vast prosecutorial apparatus. What they
[18:17] Speaker 6: didn't want to do was prosecute this case because the
[18:21] Speaker 6: case is bullshit. That's a technical legal term. Well, there
[18:28] Speaker 6: is a provision in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.
[18:31] Speaker 6: When the government refused to prosecute a case, the judge
[18:36] Speaker 6: in a contempt case can designate a private law firm
[18:40] Speaker 6: or a private lawyer to conduct the prosecution. On behalf
[18:44] Speaker 6: of the United States of America. Here in the Southern
[18:47] Speaker 6: District of New York, we have thousands of ex assistant
[18:52] Speaker 6: United States Attorneys. You see them all the time on
[18:56] Speaker 6: MSNBC Assistant the United States Attorney for this other district
[19:00] Speaker 6: of New York. There's an endless supply of them. Instead
[19:04] Speaker 6: of going to one of those folks and somebody with
[19:09] Speaker 6: a reputation who had earned a reputation in the prosecutor's
[19:12] Speaker 6: office for integrity and propriety, of which there are many,
[19:17] Speaker 6: he went to the law firm of Seward and Kissel,
[19:21] Speaker 6: which has a long relationship with the oil and gas industry,
[19:27] Speaker 6: and he appointed them.
[19:28] Speaker 1: Actually, you know, I have some I have some good
[19:31] Speaker 1: tape from our like one of our first conversations with
[19:34] Speaker 1: Donziger about Seward and Kissel and their whole background.
[19:40] Speaker 7: Over time, we had a sneaking suspicion that Seward and
[19:44] Speaker 7: Kissel and Rita Glavin and the whole firm had ties
[19:48] Speaker 7: to Chevron. And we noticed that the Chevron lawyers from
[19:54] Speaker 7: another Chevron private law firm, Gibson Done the Crutcher, which
[19:57] Speaker 7: had taken the lead and you prosecut and persecuting me
[20:01] Speaker 7: for ten years in the Rico case, that they were
[20:04] Speaker 7: showing up that all of my court hearings in the
[20:06] Speaker 7: criminal contempt case, some of their lawyers were talking and
[20:13] Speaker 7: sort of, you know, talking in a very friendly, extensive
[20:17] Speaker 7: way with the so called independent prosecutor from the corporate
[20:20] Speaker 7: law firm. This was back August September. You know, I'm
[20:24] Speaker 7: now talking to you in May. What we learned a
[20:28] Speaker 7: month ago is even more shocking, which is that they
[20:32] Speaker 7: finally admitted the Seward and Kissel firm that's prosecuting me.
[20:37] Speaker 7: They finally admitted that Chevron is a client of the
[20:40] Speaker 7: law firm Chevron itself.
[20:42] Speaker 4: That's interesting about that is that it wasn't disclosed upfront
[20:48] Speaker 4: if Donziger and his team at that point. Hadn't asked
[20:54] Speaker 4: for this full disclosure, it would never have come out,
[20:58] Speaker 4: and even when it did, in reading, the report is
[21:00] Speaker 4: kind of minimized.
[21:02] Speaker 8: You know, we are free from conflicts and we haven't
[21:05] Speaker 8: represented Chevron in over year or something like really like, wow, okay,
[21:10] Speaker 8: wait a minute, hold them.
[21:21] Speaker 1: I don't know anything else you think folks should know.
[21:24] Speaker 4: The one thing that strikes me in their rush to
[21:27] Speaker 4: get this case tried during COVID is that, you know,
[21:32] Speaker 4: there are.
[21:33] Speaker 2: A number of people waiting for trials.
[21:36] Speaker 4: And a good chunk of those folks are most likely incarcerated.
[21:41] Speaker 1: It seems like something that is meant to send a
[21:43] Speaker 1: message about how attorneys should look at taking on cases
[21:51] Speaker 1: against big companies.
[21:53] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[21:53] Speaker 3: I keep telling people this is sort of like a
[21:55] Speaker 3: flap on steroids, where you know, the biggest kid on
[22:00] Speaker 3: the block, you know, the biggest spoil and gas corporation
[22:05] Speaker 3: has made it their goal to scare lawyers away from
[22:12] Speaker 3: doing them, you know, and other industries. I mean, I
[22:15] Speaker 3: really feel like that's sort of what this is really.
[22:18] Speaker 2: About, exactly exactly. I mean, think about it.
[22:21] Speaker 4: If you're a young attorney just out of law school
[22:24] Speaker 4: trying to decide which way to.
[22:26] Speaker 2: Go with your career.
[22:28] Speaker 4: Will you choose to go up against a big corporation?
[22:32] Speaker 4: And if you do, how rigorously would you push that?
[22:36] Speaker 4: You know, I think the message that it sends, like
[22:38] Speaker 4: like so many other people have said, is chilling.
[22:41] Speaker 2: And you know, when Steven said this is retaliatory.
[22:44] Speaker 4: Regarding the civil contempt, I kind of, you know, as
[22:46] Speaker 4: a reporter, I'm like, Okay, everything people say, I have
[22:48] Speaker 4: to kind of look into.
[22:50] Speaker 2: And as I looked into that, with the delays.
[22:52] Speaker 4: And with refusing to schedule in accordance with the attorney's
[22:58] Speaker 4: schedules and all of these things added up together, I
[23:02] Speaker 4: couldn't say no, it's not.
[23:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, we will be watching this unfold on Monday. It's
[23:12] Speaker 1: entirely possible that there will be some sort of last
[23:15] Speaker 1: minute change, because that's happened like a few times in
[23:18] Speaker 1: this case. So we'll keep people updated on that.
[23:22] Speaker 2: I'm going to go in person.
[23:24] Speaker 1: Maybe we'll have you give us a little update after that.
[23:27] Speaker 1: Hearing Too Drilled is an original production of the Critical
[23:37] Speaker 1: Frequency podcast Network. The show was created, reported, and written
[23:42] Speaker 1: by me Amy Westervelt. My co reporter this season is
[23:45] Speaker 1: Karen Savage. Our editor is Julia Ritchie. The show's editorial
[23:50] Speaker 1: consultant is Rika Murthy. Mixing and mastering by Mark Bush,
[23:56] Speaker 1: original score by b Beman, fact checking by Woodan Yan.
[24:01] Speaker 1: Our artwork for this season was done by the super
[24:04] Speaker 1: talented Matt Fleming. Special thanks to Trevor Gowan and Emily Gertz.
[24:11] Speaker 1: If you are a Patreon subscriber, thank you. Your money
[24:15] Speaker 1: is helping to make this season, and as a special
[24:18] Speaker 1: thank you to Patreon members, we're providing a variety of benefits,
[24:23] Speaker 1: including bonus content and early access to episodes in this season.
[24:28] Speaker 1: If that sounds appealing to you, or you just want
[24:30] Speaker 1: to support our work, go over to patreon dot com
[24:34] Speaker 1: slash drilled and sign up. We also have some merch
[24:37] Speaker 1: associated with that. You can find stories, documents, and photos
[24:41] Speaker 1: related to this season on our website at drillednews dot com.
[24:45] Speaker 1: Dot's it for this time, Thanks for listening, and we'll
[24:48] Speaker 1: see you next weeks.
[25:00] Speaker 6: Stay

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