# How Many Ex-Wives Are Entitled To His Social Security?

An episode of [Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1439621652), 25 Jun 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2df1102a-5761-4c99-b489-aabd0161f8fe/44e0936e-923c-43c7-9e2a-aade00edf4d3/7482e34f-d1eb-495e-80a5-b473002b6458/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=4e05fb00-5a5b-4ed9-b353-aade00edf4dd

On this edition of Ask KT and Suze Anything, Suze answers your questions about Roth conversions, advice from financial advisors, and investing based on personal values. Plus, you won't believe how many ex-wives are entitled to one man's social security benefits and so much more. Learn more about the Ultimate Scam Protection here: SuzeOrman.com Watch Suze’s YouTube Channel Jumpstart financial wellness for your employees: https://bit.ly/SecureSave Protect your financial future with the Must Have Docs: https://bit.ly/3Vq1V3G Help with the Must Have Docs: Email:support@musthavedocuments.zendesk.com Phone: 888-510-0510 Get your savings going with Alliant Credit Union: https://bit.ly/3rg0Yio Get Suze’s special offers for podcast listeners at suzeorman.com/offer Join Suze’s Women & Money Community for FREE and ASK SUZE your questions which may just end up on the podcast. Download the app by following one of these links: CLICK HERE FOR APPLE: https://apple.co/2KcAHbH CLICK HERE FOR GOOGLE PLAY: https://bit.ly/3curfMI See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:08] KT: Welcome everyone to the Women in Money podcast and everyone
[0:12] KT: smart enough to listen. This is the Ask Suze and
[0:16] KT: KT Anything edition.
[0:18] KT: And today's a special day. It's June 25th, 2026.
[0:24] Suze: All right, now, everybody, why do you think today is
[0:28] Suze: a special day? Tell everybody, KT.
[0:31] KT: It's Travis's birthday, and Travis, I can't believe how old
[0:35] KT: you are, and I can't believe you're getting married this year.
[0:38] Suze: In September. Who is Travis? Tell everybody.
[0:40] KT: Travis is our nephew, and Travis is very special
[0:45] KT: to me for many, many reasons, but he is our
[0:49] KT: nephew that lives in Colorado, and we just love him
[0:52] KT: up dearly.
[0:54] Suze: Wait, nobody loves him more than his aunt Kathy. They
[0:58] Suze: have this special relationship, and I just sit there I go...
[1:01] KT: He's my angel boy, and he knows why.
[1:04] Suze: I go, OK, now, but anyway, happy birthday, big boy.
[1:08] Suze: How old is he, KT?
[1:09] KT: He's gonna be 29, Suze.
[1:11] Suze: I have to tell you, everybody, he is the only
[1:14] Suze: man in my life who has traumatized me.
[1:17] KT: Why, why?
[1:19] Suze: Do you rememember, so listen, I know, I know. So this, I, I, we,
[1:24] Suze: we always tell stories now when we start, but it's
[1:27] Suze: because we like to, so we're going to. So when
[1:30] Suze: the kids were growing up, they stayed with us every
[1:35] Suze: single summer here at our condo where we still live now,
[1:40] Suze: and it's a small two bedroom condo, and there's four
[1:43] Suze: of them.
[1:44] Suze: And we always stayed together and Travis must have been three, four, five...
[1:52] Suze: really tiny...
[1:52] KT: About three years old...
[1:54] Suze: And he was into Pokemon
[1:57] KT: I know he was so excited about those Pokemon cards.
[2:01] Suze: So I'm in the bathroom.
[2:03] KT: She's doing her morning business...
[2:05] Suze: All right, everybody...
[2:06] KT: And she's naked.
[2:07] Suze: All right, everybody, and he walks right in...
[2:10] Suze: In his little pajamas...
[2:11] Suze: And leans on me to show me
[2:14] Suze: his Pokemon cards and this is the first time really
[2:17] Suze: my introduction to kids, so to speak, and I'm like,
[2:20] Suze: are you kidding me?
[2:21] KT: And she's completely naked and it didn't faze him at
[2:24] KT: all and he couldn't wait to show his Aunt Suze
[2:27] KT: and I hear her saying, KT, KT, help me.
[2:33] Suze: So anyway, but Trav, I don't know if you remember that,
[2:37] Suze: but I sure do. All right, KT, now we wait
[2:40] Suze: before you begin, if you have questions, everybody.
[2:44] Suze: All you have to do is send them into podcast@
[2:49] Suze: ask Suze.com. That is our new email address, so just
[2:54] Suze: send them there, and if KT chooses it, oh, we
[2:58] Suze: will answer it on this podcast. Go on, KT.
[3:01] KT: OK. My first question is from Ellen. Hi, Suze and KT.
[3:06] KT: I'm 54 years old and I've been divorced for seven years.
[3:10] KT: When I got divorced, my husband said, 'Good luck with
[3:13] KT: the money that you took from me.' Typical, right? 'I'm
[3:17] KT: sure you will lose it all.'
[3:20] Suze: All right, tell me, how much money does she have?
[3:22] Suze: She must have done great.
[3:23] KT: I now realize that after 22 years of marriage, he
[3:27] KT: never saw me as his partner.
[3:30] KT: I have been working diligently with my financial advisor to
[3:33] KT: make sure I do not lose the money I walked
[3:36] KT: away with.
[3:38] KT: I've been growing it over the years. However, my biggest
[3:42] KT: fear is that being single and not having that second income,
[3:46] KT: that I may not have enough money saved for retirement.
[3:50] KT: When I asked my financial advisor about this, he said,
[3:53] KT: 'Don't worry, you have enough to retire comfortably.' But he
[3:57] KT: never takes the time to explain to me how. Sounds like,
[4:02] KT: sounds familiar, right? Her husband didn't either.
[4:06] KT: So she said, I have accumulated $1.8 million in my
[4:10] KT: stock brokerage account, and of that only $100,000 is in
[4:15] KT: a Roth. I make $150,000 a year and I continue
[4:20] KT: to contribute to my Roth 401k.
[4:24] KT: I also have an annuity for $400,000 which my financial
[4:29] KT: advisor set up for me to give me security and
[4:32] KT: peace of mind...
[4:33] Suze: And to give him a $20,000 commission.
[4:35] KT: Exactly. After the divorce, I did purchase a house in
[4:39] KT: Southern California for $740,000.
[4:43] KT: I still owe $400,000 on that mortgage. That is really
[4:48] KT: my only debt. I own my car outright, but it
[4:51] KT: is older and acting up, so I may need to
[4:54] KT: purchase a new car in the future. So Suze, Ellen's asking,
[4:58] KT: is she OK? Does she...
[4:59] Suze: Is she still working?
[5:01] KT: Yeah, $150,000 a year. Ellen's young. She's only 54.
[5:06] Suze: Ellen, there's one line in your email that seriously gets me,
[5:12] Suze: and it is this.
[5:14] Suze: You say when it comes to your financial adviser, he says,
[5:18] Suze: don't worry, you have enough to retire comfortably, but he
[5:22] Suze: never takes the time to explain to me how. Why
[5:27] Suze: do you settle for that? You are this powerful woman.
[5:30] Suze: You're making $150,000 a year. You're still only 54 years
[5:35] Suze: of age, yet you once again have gotten yourself into
[5:38] Suze: a relationship with a male financial adviser...
[5:44] Suze: Who doesn't explain to you and consider you an equal
[5:47] Suze: partner in this given that it's your money? I don't
[5:51] Suze: care how well he's doing for you financially. There are
[5:54] Suze: a lot of great financial advisers out there, but when
[5:58] Suze: a financial adviser does not give you what you need
[6:02] Suze: from him or her, that is not a great financial adviser.
[6:07] Suze: Now we can put it on him.
[6:10] Suze: Or we can put it on you for not standing
[6:13] Suze: in your power. I want you to explain to me
[6:16] Suze: why you think I'm going to be OK and what
[6:18] Suze: my numbers are actually going to be. That's on you
[6:22] Suze: to ask him.
[6:24] KT: Suze, if you were the financial advisor, what would those
[6:27] KT: numbers be? What would you say to her?
[6:30] Suze: So Ellen, here you are sitting across the desk from me.
[6:34] Suze: And I'd be so happy to say to you, you're
[6:37] Suze: gonna be more than OK in my opinion, but let
[6:40] Suze: me tell you why. You currently have $1.8 million invested now.
[6:45] Suze: But Ellen, let's just say you don't need that money
[6:48] Suze: for 10 years, and we're just gonna have a conservative
[6:52] Suze: growth rate of that of let's just say 5%. That
[6:56] Suze: should give you about $2.9 million because most of it's
[7:00] Suze: in retirement accounts there.
[7:03] Suze: And so, even if it were all taxable, let's just
[7:06] Suze: assume that it is, even though a lot of it
[7:09] Suze: will not be cause you're doing a Roth 401k. All right.
[7:13] Suze: That would give you at a 4% withdrawal rate approximately
[7:17] Suze: $116,000 a year. I don't know how much of that
[7:22] Suze: will be taxable or not, but Ellen, it will depend
[7:25] Suze: how much we get into a Roth before you retire.
[7:29] Suze: But you know that annuity
[7:30] Suze: that I had you do all right, even if we
[7:34] Suze: just kept that annuity, if it made 5%, that should
[7:39] Suze: add about another $20,000 a year if you decide to
[7:42] Suze: keep it, Ellen, anyway, right? $20,000 a year in 10 years.
[7:49] Suze: So now you're also going to be eligible
[7:53] Suze: for Social Security, you may wait a few years or
[7:55] Suze: until you're 70 to take it up to you. Or remember,
[8:00] Suze: you do also qualify once your full retirement age for 50%
[8:06] Suze: of your ex-husband's Social Security. So Ellen, we'll just have
[8:10] Suze: to figure out what that is. So it is
[8:13] Suze: very possible for getting Social Security that you could have
[8:17] Suze: $136,000 a year of income gross. Now, here's what I
[8:24] Suze: don't know, Ellen. What are your expenses going to be then?
[8:28] Suze: You say that you bought a house seven years ago.
[8:32] Suze: All right, you owe $400,000 on it. That kind of
[8:36] Suze: tells me that you probably had a 15 year mortgage.
[8:41] Suze: And really that means in eight years from now that
[8:44] Suze: mortgage payment will be gone. So Ellen, I'm assuming if
[8:48] Suze: this is all true, you're paying about $4,000 a month
[8:51] Suze: for that mortgage. So now when it's gone, you've reduced
[8:55] Suze: your expenses by $4,000 a month. And Ellen,
[9:00] Suze: your home is probably worth at least $1.2 million or
[9:05] Suze: more right now. So, everything is dependent on you, Ellen.
[9:11] Suze: That looks like what your income is going to be,
[9:15] Suze: assuming that you don't put anything more towards your 401k,
[9:20] Suze: so you can count on even more than that.
[9:23] Suze: Now the question is, what are your expenses going to be,
[9:27] Suze: and that is up to you. So, let's go over
[9:30] Suze: what your current expenses are now. Let's see what they
[9:34] Suze: are projected to be 10 years from now, and then
[9:37] Suze: we'll know how comfortable you can really be. Now, Ellen,
[9:40] Suze: you're not really sitting across the desk from me, and
[9:43] Suze: I don't know your expenses, but that's what should have happened.
[9:46] Suze: But in my estimation, given that you're gonna continue to
[9:49] Suze: contribute to the Roth 401k.
[9:53] Suze: You should be pretty good if you ask me. That's
[9:56] Suze: what I would do, KT. That's what I would have done.
[9:58] KT: So that's what Ellen's looking for an explanation.
[10:02] Suze: Well, I just gave it to her.
[10:03] KT: You gave it to her, great.
[10:04] Suze: All right, but that everybody is what her advisor, something
[10:08] Suze: like that, because I'm assuming these numbers are correct that
[10:12] Suze: I'm working with here, right? That's what an advisor should
[10:15] Suze: do and show her. And then Ellen, who's making 150,000
[10:19] Suze: a year and was smart enough to become a partner
[10:22] Suze: in her own life to herself and her money. Oh,
[10:26] Suze: she's gonna have a great time. All right, KT, next.
[10:29] KT: OK, this is from Ray.
[10:32] KT: And Ray said, Hi Suze and KT. Maybe this is
[10:35] KT: a quizzy for KT. This is a Roth conversion question.
[10:40] KT: All right, I'm 73, retired last year. My income is
[10:45] KT: $34,000 a year, and that's her combined Social Security and RMD.
[10:52] Suze: Great. All right.
[10:53] KT: So about a year ago I bought a few shares
[10:55] KT: of Dell at $99 and I've been DCAing ever since.
[11:01] Suze: What is DCAing KT?
[11:03] KT: Dollar cost average.
[11:04] Suze: That's my girl. Go on.
[11:06] KT: Would it be smart to do a Roth conversion here?
[11:09] KT: Remember she's 73. There will be ordinary income tax on
[11:14] KT: the contribution and capital gains on 8,000 plus.
[11:20] KT: So that's her question. That's from Ray.
[11:23] Suze: Ray-Ray, that was a great investment, but you have something wrong.
[11:29] Suze: When you have money in a traditional IRA.
[11:33] Suze: It doesn't matter what you paid for the stock, doesn't
[11:37] Suze: matter what it's worth now, whatever amount of money that
[11:40] Suze: you take out,
[11:43] Suze: is taxed to you as ordinary income. There is no
[11:47] Suze: such thing as a capital gain in an IRA. It's
[11:52] Suze: all just ordinary income tax, period, because you never paid
[11:56] Suze: tax on your original amount that you invested to begin with.
[12:01] Suze: However, at your age you are required to take required
[12:06] Suze: minimum distributions, and that plus your Social Security only adds
[12:11] Suze: up to 34,000 annually. So I don't see an advantage
[12:17] Suze: for you to take money out truthfully and put it
[12:19] Suze: in a Roth IRA at all and convert it.
[12:24] Suze: Leave it exactly where it is. When you need it,
[12:28] Suze: just take it out at that time, and you should
[12:31] Suze: be absolutely fine. But a Roth conversion, in my opinion,
[12:36] Suze: is not for you in your particular situation. But obviously,
[12:40] Suze: make sure you check with your CPA next, KT,
[12:43] KT: OK, this next question is from Karen.
[12:47] KT: Hi Suze. In one of your recent podcast or webinars,
[12:50] KT: I thought I heard you say that you do not
[12:54] KT: currently recommend bonds or that investors should focus on treasuries,
[13:00] KT: possibly long term treasuries instead. However, in the ultimate retirement
[13:06] KT: guide for 50+, this is the '24 edition, you write,
[13:10] KT: if you want a solid bond strategy that will work
[13:14] KT: over
[13:14] KT: long term intermediate term treasury bonds that mature 5 to
[13:19] KT: 10 years remain a smart way to go. Has your
[13:23] KT: thinking changed since the book was published? As of June '26,
[13:28] KT: what is your current recommendation for the bond portion of
[13:32] KT: a retirement portfolio?
[13:34] Suze: Actually, my advice has not changed it, believe it or not.
[13:39] Suze: According to the book, remember, when I write a book...
[13:42] Suze: I don't know when we're gonna reprint an update. I
[13:46] Suze: don't know when somebody is reading a book like that
[13:50] Suze: was in 2024, it is now 2026. It originally came out,
[13:55] Suze: the book in 2020, so, I have to kind of
[14:00] Suze: do a middle of the road strategy for everybody. However,
[14:06] Suze: with that said, on the webinar and on the podcast
[14:10] Suze: that I've been giving lately,
[14:12] Suze: I don't like bonds as much as I used to
[14:16] Suze: even a few years ago. All kinds of reasons, because
[14:20] Suze: of the structuring of bonds, our debt, and everything like that. However,
[14:25] Suze: when interest rates are high.
[14:28] Suze: And when interest rates on a 30 year bond happens
[14:31] Suze: to be at 5, 5.5%, whatever they were at during
[14:35] Suze: that week, I think people should have taken advantage of
[14:38] Suze: it because number one, it's a treasury very different than
[14:41] Suze: a corporate or any other type of bond, and it's
[14:45] Suze: not a bad idea to lock in a high interest
[14:48] Suze: rate like that because if interest rates ever go down,
[14:52] Suze: remember Karen, the fact is this when interest rates go down.
[14:57] Suze: The value of bonds go up, and the longer the
[15:00] Suze: term of the bond, the more it will fluctuate. Now
[15:04] Suze: I put money in, as you know, in a 30
[15:07] Suze: year bond back then, and I'm up kind of considerably
[15:13] Suze: on it right now. Now, does that mean I'm going
[15:15] Suze: to sell it? No, because interest rates have come down
[15:17] Suze: a little from when I went in a month or
[15:20] Suze: so ago, but I like that it's at 5% or 5.1%,
[15:24] Suze: whatever it's at.
[15:26] Suze: But I also know that if interest rates do come down,
[15:30] Suze: I have the ability to sell if I want, and
[15:32] Suze: if not, I'm happy with that rate, but they are
[15:36] Suze: very risky long term bonds because remember interest rates could
[15:40] Suze: go higher and then you can see that principal seriously
[15:44] Suze: go down if you need the money. So only put
[15:47] Suze: money in there that you don't need, but,
[15:51] Suze: I don't love bonds as much as I like dividend
[15:56] Suze: paying stocks. I just don't. I think you need growth
[16:00] Suze: plus income in today's inflationary environment, and bonds don't present
[16:06] Suze: that same opportunity. However, every one of us needs money
[16:11] Suze: that we know is safe and sound. For me and KT,
[16:15] Suze: that money really is in treasuries.
[16:18] Suze: But we have a lot of other investments obviously as well. So,
[16:22] Suze: if you don't know which term to do, a 5 year,
[16:26] Suze: a medium term.
[16:29] Suze: 10 years at most. Now you're playing it safe, cause
[16:32] Suze: maybe you're getting a little bit higher interest rate than
[16:35] Suze: a short-term one. If interest rates go down, you've locked in.
[16:39] Suze: If interest rates go up, you're still fine because you're
[16:42] Suze: not gonna get that much of a decrease, because they're
[16:45] Suze: not long term bonds. So, I hope that explains it
[16:50] Suze: to you, but honestly, I wouldn't be changing what I
[16:53] Suze: wrote in that book for the majority of people that
[16:56] Suze: are reading it.
[16:57] KT: OK, my next question, Suze, I want to answer.
[17:01] KT: Your next question I wanna answer.
[17:03] Suze: Well, KT, it's actually our next question because they write
[17:06] Suze: into KT and Suze.
[17:07] KT: So I'd like to answer this one if you don't mind.
[17:10] KT: It says, when should personal values influence your investment decisions? Hi,
[17:17] KT: Suze and KT. If a stock remains a strong investment
[17:21] KT: but you no longer feel good about owning the company
[17:26] KT: because its values don't align with your own, would you
[17:30] KT: sell it?
[17:31] KT: How should investors balance financial returns with personal values? Can
[17:36] KT: I answer that?
[17:37] Suze: You can, but I just want to say something before
[17:39] Suze: you do, because I actually know what you're gonna say
[17:41] Suze: because I went through this with you. But wait a minute,
[17:45] Suze: is that every single one of us has to decide
[17:48] Suze: what our goals are, what we feel is right, and
[17:51] Suze: we can't condemn or praise or whatever anybody else's investment decisions.
[17:58] Suze: But you are responsible for what you do with your
[18:01] Suze: own money. You know, it's funny, KT, and I don't
[18:04] Suze: know why, as I'm sitting here, we have that saying.
[18:08] Suze: Do you remember my saying, "Grace is above praise and blame."
[18:13] Suze: Do you remember me? Because so many times people have
[18:15] Suze: blamed me for this and that and whatever.
[18:18] Suze: "Grace is above praise and blame." So all of us
[18:22] Suze: should just live our own lives, so to speak, when
[18:25] Suze: it comes to what other people do with their money.
[18:28] Suze: But KT, answer.
[18:30] KT: So my answer is yes, I would sell it if
[18:34] KT: it doesn't align with your own values and doesn't make
[18:38] KT: you feel good.
[18:39] Suze: Now tell everybody why you said that because she did that.
[18:42] KT: I did that. I opened my statements and this was
[18:45] KT: quite some time ago, maybe 10 years ago.
[18:49] KT: I noticed that we owned a tobacco stock and it's,
[18:53] KT: it was paying it was doing really well.
[18:56] Suze: And paying a great dividend.
[18:58] KT: Great dividend, one of the highest of them all, and
[19:01] KT: I said, Suze, I wanna sell this. She said, KT, why?
[19:05] KT: And I said, because it's tobacco, and that was my
[19:07] KT: answer and she didn't fight me on it. She thought
[19:11] KT: about it and she said, you know, you're making a very,
[19:14] KT: very handsome return. I said, I don't care.
[19:18] KT: I don't want to be associated with tobacco and cigarettes.
[19:23] Suze: I said, fine. We called up John, who is our
[19:26] Suze: partner in crime when it comes to our...
[19:29] KT: And he kept saying, Are you sure? He, he doing
[19:32] KT: his job was looking at the return and the investment
[19:36] KT: value was excellent.
[19:39] Suze: But what was more important to KT was that she
[19:43] Suze: didn't want it. Now, you can be
[19:46] Suze: disappointed in me if you want or not, but as
[19:49] Suze: a finance person, I looked at the return, I looked
[19:52] Suze: at the growth, and I said, no, I want to
[19:56] Suze: keep mine. KT sold hers because we usually own the
[19:59] Suze: same stocks, but in each of our own accounts, and
[20:03] Suze: that's what happened. It continued to go up. I did
[20:07] Suze: great with it.
[20:08] Suze: I did eventually end up selling it, but I honored
[20:11] Suze: KT because your values and what means something to you
[20:17] Suze: is more important than money. And so those of you
[20:21] Suze: who are out there and maybe you think bad of
[20:24] Suze: me because I own a few stocks that are against
[20:27] Suze: your political beliefs and everything.
[20:29] Suze: Just it is what it is. I'm looking at it
[20:32] Suze: totally seriously from a financial return and what that money
[20:38] Suze: can do for people when they sell just that simple.
[20:42] Suze: But there you go. Next question, KT.
[20:45] KT: OK, I like this. It's from Pastor Duncan.
[20:49] KT: This is very simple.
[20:50] Suze: Oh, is that why I said "grace is above praise
[20:52] Suze: and blame?" We knew it was in the air.
[20:54] KT: Pastor Mark Duncan. Mark, here you go. Pastor Mark, is
[20:59] KT: there any way, Suze, to have your revocable trust read
[21:03] KT: as a Georgia document?
[21:07] Suze: You, well, you can go to Georgia and read your trust, but,
[21:10] Suze: but very seriously, everybody, let's get clear on the must-have documents.
[21:15] Suze: Do you know in life when you do a corporation,
[21:19] Suze: you decide you want to be incorporated, you get to
[21:22] Suze: choose where you want to be incorporated based on the
[21:27] Suze: rules and the regulations of what you need. Believe it
[21:31] Suze: or not, the same is true with a revocable trust.
[21:35] Suze: The trust of the must-have documents is guided under California
[21:42] Suze: trust regulations, and the reason that that was chosen is
[21:47] Suze: because California has the most liberal regulations of all trusts.
[21:53] Suze: So KT and I are residents in Florida, but we
[21:58] Suze: have a trust that was regulated by California.
[22:03] Suze: Even though we don't own any property there or whatever,
[22:07] Suze: so if you choose to do the must-have documents and
[22:11] Suze: that confuses you, hopefully that explains it. It is good
[22:15] Suze: in all 50 states. Please know over the 20 years
[22:20] Suze: that this has been offered to all of you, millions
[22:24] Suze: and millions have been sold.
[22:27] Suze: Many of those people are no longer with us. Their
[22:30] Suze: trust had to be used, and it's always been fine,
[22:34] Suze: but you have to feel comfortable with it. You have
[22:37] Suze: to know it's what makes you feel secure and make
[22:40] Suze: your decision from there. If you're interested, go to must
[22:44] Suze: have docs.com and check them out. Yes, KT.
[22:47] KT: So, all right, this next question, it's the subject said
[22:51] KT: keeping inheritance separate in California but allowing husband access.
[22:56] KT: And here's the question. My mother died last year, and
[23:00] KT: I am both the executor and beneficiary. I'm 52. My
[23:05] KT: husband is 42. We've been together nine years, married five,
[23:10] KT: no children, and we live in California. I want to
[23:14] KT: keep this inheritance as my separate property, but I also
[23:19] KT: want my husband to be able to access it easily
[23:22] KT: if I become incapacitated.
[23:25] KT: I know a durable financial power of attorney is one answer,
[23:30] KT: and we have one, but when my mother became incapacitated,
[23:35] KT: her bank refused to honor her POA, and it was
[23:38] KT: a nightmare. So I'm nervous about relying on a POA alone.
[23:44] KT: My question is, Suze, what is the smartest way to
[23:47] KT: keep this inheritance clearly separate under California community property law
[23:53] KT: while still making it straightforward for my husband to access
[23:58] KT: and manage if I become incapacitated.
[24:01] KT: Warmly, Gregg.
[24:03] Suze: So Gregg, here's the thing, and it's funny because this
[24:06] Suze: just follows the question of before with the Reverend about
[24:12] Suze: the must-have documents. I've been telling all of you for
[24:16] Suze: years that you may think that in case of an incapacity,
[24:21] Suze: a power of attorney, a durable power of attorney for finances,
[24:25] Suze: and all is all that you need, but it's not true.
[24:29] Suze: Because you just heard Gregg say that his mother had one.
[24:35] Suze: She died and it was still a nightmare. Why is that?
[24:39] Suze: Because the bank or the financial institution didn't know. Did
[24:44] Suze: she revoke it? She, they didn't know. Was it still valid,
[24:47] Suze: because it could be changed in two seconds. Just that easy.
[24:51] Suze: That is why a revocable trust, must have documents,
[24:57] Suze: has an incapacity clause that says if Gregg, for instance
[25:02] Suze: in this case if you become incapacitated then your husband
[25:06] Suze: can sign for you in any capacity that you've designated
[25:11] Suze: in the trust and the banks will not challenge that
[25:16] Suze: because they will actually have a copy of the trust,
[25:19] Suze: the date of it, and they'll be fine with that.
[25:23] Suze: So to keep things separate, number one.
[25:26] Suze: The money that you inherited should be in your individual account,
[25:31] Suze: but your individual account should be a revocable trust for Gregg.
[25:37] Suze: That's it. Just for you. If your husband wants, he
[25:41] Suze: can have one as well, and it should have the
[25:44] Suze: incapacity clause in it, giving him right to be able
[25:47] Suze: to access the money whenever he needs it. So he
[25:51] Suze: would be there. He also would be what's known as
[25:53] Suze: a successor beneficiary. So it's in trust held for your
[25:58] Suze: benefit while you're alive.
[26:00] Suze: His benefit while you've died goes to him immediately what
[26:05] Suze: without probate, and probate in the state of California is statutory.
[26:11] Suze: It is expensive and you want to avoid probate at
[26:15] Suze: all costs, and a durable power of attorney for finances
[26:19] Suze: will not do that. Now, obviously you can put him
[26:23] Suze: on your accounts as a pay on death that if
[26:26] Suze: you die it goes to him. Great, that avoids probate,
[26:31] Suze: but it does not help you or him in case
[26:34] Suze: of an incapacity.
[26:36] Suze: That is why I have been on it and on
[26:39] Suze: it and on it for almost now 31 years, everybody,
[26:45] Suze: while every single one of you needs a living revocable trust,
[26:50] Suze: and again they're expensive. You go to a lawyer, it's
[26:53] Suze: gonna be $2,500, $5,000 every time you change it, whatever.
[26:58] Suze: That's why the must-have documents were created again, and I
[27:02] Suze: don't want this to sound like a sales pitch for them.
[27:06] Suze: But to check them out, go to must have docs.com.
[27:10] Suze: They are $153 now and just see what you think,
[27:15] Suze: and they're worth every single penny if you ask me.
[27:18] Suze: Go on.
[27:19] KT: So Suze, this next question is from Annukin.
[27:22] Suze: Oh, good, good,
[27:24] Suze: Why am I saying good? Annukin, you know why I'm
[27:26] Suze: saying good. KT, right? I answered her.
[27:31] Suze: And I said I can only hope that KT picks this,
[27:35] Suze: and she said, me too, and you did, go girl.
[27:39] KT: I did. So, here's the question if your 401k balance
[27:43] KT: crosses 900,000, up to 85% of your Social Security benefits
[27:49] KT: could become taxable income.
[27:53] KT: This is called the provisional income threshold, and it silently
[27:58] KT: kicks in when your retirement account distributions push your combined
[28:04] KT: income over the IRS limits.
[28:07] KT: So there you go. Is this a trap?
[28:10] Suze: So, Annukin, as I've told you, listen, everybody, there is
[28:13] Suze: no IRS rule that says, once your 401k reaches $900,000
[28:20] Suze: that 85% of your Social Security automatically becomes taxable.
[28:26] Suze: It doesn't matter what the size of your retirement account is.
[28:30] Suze: What matters is your annual income, specifically, by the way,
[28:35] Suze: what the IRS does call provisional income.
[28:39] Suze: So what you all have to know, provisional income is
[28:43] Suze: calculated as your adjusted gross income, and by the way,
[28:47] Suze: that includes IRA and 401k withdrawals. Any tax exempt interest,
[28:54] Suze: what else does it include? Let me think here, 50%
[28:57] Suze: of your Social Security benefits. So for a single filer,
[29:03] Suze: if provisional income is over $25,000 KT, then up to 50%
[29:10] Suze: of your Social Security may become taxable. If provisional income
[29:15] Suze: is over $34,000 then up to 85% of your Social
[29:22] Suze: Security
[29:23] Suze: may become taxable. That's always been the rules. Yeah. So
[29:27] Suze: what if you're married? If you're married, then over 32,000
[29:32] Suze: may trigger taxation on up to 50% of the benefits,
[29:35] Suze: and over 44,000 KT may trigger it up to 85%.
[29:42] Suze: But here's the key point that I think many people misunderstand.
[29:47] Suze: Up to 85% taxable does not mean that you lose 85%
[29:52] Suze: of your Social Security. It means that up to 85%
[29:57] Suze: of your Social Security benefit is included in your taxable
[30:02] Suze: income calculation, and then you pay tax on that amount
[30:07] Suze: at your ordinary income tax bracket. Just that simple. So
[30:13] Suze: there you go. That's the answer. All right.
[30:15] KT: All right, so it's not... It's not a trap.
[30:19] Suze: No, it's not a trap. She, she, she thought...
[30:22] KT: She thought it was a trap.
[30:23] Suze: No, it's not a trap. It's always been the law.
[30:26] Suze: So KT, you and I both pay.
[30:29] Suze: Right? Our tax, up to the 85% of our Social Security, 85%
[30:36] Suze: of that is added into our income.
[30:39] Suze: And we pay tax on that amount. All right, OK,
[30:42] Suze: we have time for one more, so make it great.
[30:45] KT: OK, so this is one more, and I think it's
[30:47] KT: a really good one, but it's very confusing. It's from Susan.
[30:51] KT: She said, Suze, I'm close to applying for Social Security,
[30:56] KT: about to be 67. I qualify under my own work record,
[31:01] KT: but I was married for 27 years, and my ex
[31:05] KT: made zillions more than I did.
[31:08] KT: I called Social Security to see if I would be
[31:11] KT: better off filing under his work record. They told me
[31:15] KT: I can't do that until he's dead or he files
[31:19] KT: for Social Security himself, and they cannot tell me whether
[31:23] KT: his amount would be more than twice what mine is
[31:27] KT: because I would only get half. Is this true? He
[31:31] KT: is remarried, and I have no contact with him. I
[31:35] KT: don't expect I'll ever learn from him, that whether he's applied
[31:39] KT: for Social Security, this seems crazy.
[31:42] Suze: It is crazy.
[31:43] KT: So, so we, I have a question.
[31:46] KT: Even if her ex is remarried and she waits until
[31:49] KT: he dies, is she entitled to anything?
[31:52] Suze: All right, so listen, everything that the Social Security agent
[31:57] Suze: told her was 100 million percent wrong.
[32:02] KT: Yeah, it sounds that way.
[32:05] Suze: Wrong. KT doesn't matter if he's remarried. Doesn't matter if
[32:09] Suze: he started to collect Social Security or not. All that
[32:12] Suze: matters is that he's 62 years of age and older,
[32:15] Suze: and I'm sure that he is, and that they were
[32:17] Suze: married 10 years, which they were divorced for at least two,
[32:22] Suze: which they were. Susan, listen, here's the truth.
[32:27] Suze: It doesn't matter what he's doing. This is your money,
[32:31] Suze: whether you know it or not. So, if you want,
[32:34] Suze: you just apply.
[32:36] Suze: And they will tell you what your benefit should be.
[32:39] Suze: It will be 50% because you're 67. If you were younger,
[32:44] Suze: let's say you were only 62, it might be reduced
[32:47] Suze: to like 35%, but since you're full retirement age,
[32:52] Suze: when you apply for Social Security at 67, they will
[32:57] Suze: calculate for you what 50% of his benefit would have
[33:02] Suze: been when he was 67
[33:06] Suze: versus what your 100% benefit would be, and then they
[33:10] Suze: might do a combination of both so that you get
[33:13] Suze: the highest amount possible. So don't listen to them. You
[33:18] Suze: don't have to talk to him. You don't have to
[33:20] Suze: make a choice. It will be automatically calculated for you. However,
[33:26] Suze: there's something that I want to tell all of you
[33:29] Suze: that you may not know because nobody ever asked me
[33:34] Suze: this question.
[33:36] Suze: When you apply for divorced benefits and now you're collecting
[33:42] Suze: divorce benefits, let's say that's true, and he dies, you
[33:48] Suze: now can actually switch to 100% of his survivor benefit.
[33:55] Suze: So whatever amount of money he would have been getting
[33:58] Suze: at the age of 67 or his full retirement age,
[34:02] Suze: you now
[34:03] Suze: can qualify for that and you can switch just that simple.
[34:09] Suze: And KT you want to hear something so crazy and
[34:13] Suze: this is a story that somebody wrote in and they
[34:16] Suze: just couldn't believe it was true, all right.
[34:19] Suze: Her brother married at the age of 20.
[34:24] Suze: Right, was married for 10 years, divorced at like 30
[34:27] Suze: or 31, right? He got married right away because that's
[34:32] Suze: why he left his first wife, OK. And some people
[34:36] Suze: never change their behavior. So what happened? He stayed married
[34:40] Suze: for 15 years and then divorced his second wife at 45.
[34:47] Suze: All right, he's now 45. They were married for 15 years.
[34:51] Suze: Does it again.
[34:53] Suze: At 45, he's divorced, right? And now what does he do?
[34:58] Suze: He marries somebody again and stays married till he is 60.
[35:02] Suze: And now he's divorced again and now he's just by himself,
[35:07] Suze: but all of a sudden two years later he marries again, right?
[35:12] Suze: But this time he's still married. He's now 75 and
[35:17] Suze: he just died so the sister writes and says,
[35:23] Suze: you know, what is his wife entitled to? What are all,
[35:26] Suze: because I'm friends with all of his exes, and they
[35:29] Suze: all want to know what they're entitled to. Well, guess what?
[35:34] Suze: All four of them are entitled to 100% of his
[35:42] Suze: full retirement age, his primary insurance amount, whatever he was
[35:47] Suze: qualified for at the age of 67, they each get
[35:53] Suze: to claim that if they want to.
[35:56] KT: Suze, that's the craziest thing I ever heard.
[35:59] Suze: Now you know why Social Security is going broke, but
[36:01] Suze: that's besides the point. Wanna hear something else? You all
[36:04] Suze: should know, everybody...
[36:06] Suze: If in this situation, she claimed 100% of her own
[36:11] Suze: Social Security at 67, because it was higher than 50%
[36:15] Suze: of his.
[36:17] Suze: When he dies, she can then claim as a divorce
[36:22] Suze: survivor 100% of what his would have been at his
[36:28] Suze: full retirement age of 67, which obviously because she said
[36:32] Suze: he made gazillions is more than 100% of what she's collecting.
[36:39] Suze: So you have to know these rules because a lot
[36:42] Suze: is left on the table.
[36:44] KT: So what if she remarries?
[36:45] Suze: If she remarries after the age of 60, doesn't matter.
[36:52] Suze: Right? If she remarries before the age of 60, she
[36:56] Suze: no longer qualifies for everything I just said, unless she
[37:00] Suze: divorces later on.
[37:03] KT: So let me ask this question. Where do you find
[37:05] KT: all this information?
[37:07] Suze: Oh well, you just go to Social Security and it's all
[37:09] Suze: part of it, or you call in to the Women
[37:12] Suze: and Money podcast. But very seriously, everybody, did you know that?
[37:18] Suze: So when you have a situation of an ex-spouse,
[37:22] Suze: just know if you never made a lot of money,
[37:25] Suze: he did or she did, and now they've died and
[37:29] Suze: you were married at least 10 years and you did
[37:32] Suze: not remarry before the age of 60 or you did
[37:36] Suze: get remarried and then you got divorced after the age
[37:40] Suze: of 60, you can get 100% of your ex-spouse's survivor benefit,
[37:49] Suze: which is 100%
[37:51] Suze: of his principal insurance amount at the age of 67,
[37:56] Suze: just remember that. You should see KT's face.
[38:02] KT: I'm like my mind's spinning with all of these people
[38:06] KT: that don't know what they're entitled to and it's not
[38:10] KT: like Social Security's gonna brag about it.
[38:12] Suze: Yeah, but I'll never forget that woman writing in the
[38:15] Suze: sister and saying there are four women here asking me
[38:19] Suze: and I'm like, well, guess what, you have good news
[38:21] Suze: for all of them anyway, KT, I think that's a wrap.
[38:25] KT: That is a wrap, Suze, until Sunday, and Sunday, everyone,
[38:30] KT: we have a great announcement.
[38:31] Suze: We do. We have a great announcement, a summer announcement.
[38:35] Suze: So tune in Sunday. So there's only one thing that
[38:39] Suze: we want you to remember when it comes to your money,
[38:41] Suze: and what is that, my love?
[38:43] KT: People first, then money, then things.
[38:46] Suze: Now you stay safe. Bye bye.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.