# 471 Running Into Healing When Life Hands You Hurt with Willow Weston

An episode of [Praying Christian Women](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1436550370), 6 Apr 2026, 59 min.

Audio: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/a837a939-ace6-481d-bf0d-b28100f43afd/7d5bb786-a744-49b6-b734-b4230165b5b0/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=6aef5ed9-9c32-4b5a-9f54-b28100f43e4b

Don't forget to grab your free scripture journal at PrayingChristianWomen.com/journal today! How do you begin to heal when the people closest to you are the ones who wounded you the most? This week, author, speaker, and Collide ministry founder Willow Weston joins Jaime for a raw and powerful conversation about running toward pain instead of away from it, based on her new book, Collide: Running Into Healing When Life Hands You Hurt. In this episode, Willow shares her deeply personal story of growing up in a home marked by addiction and abandonment, and how a moment of hiding in a closet from her own mother became the catalyst for a healing journey she never expected. Willow also unpacks the beautiful tension between letting God heal us and actively participating in our own healing — reminding us that wholeness requires both surrender and a willingness to move. She offers a refreshing challenge to the "sweep it under the rug" approach to pain, pointing to a Jesus who never once avoided someone's mess but made a beeline straight for it. You'll walk away with a deeper understanding of how unresolved wounds quietly travel through our relationships, and why giving yourself permission to name your pain — and invite God into it — is the bravest step toward becoming more whole than broken. Visit wecollide.net or willowweston.com to connect with Willow, learn more about the Collide ministry, and grab a copy of Collide. You can also find her on Instagram at @willowanneweston. Discover More: Explore additional episodes of Praying Christian Women, Mindful Christian Prayers, and other Christian podcasts at Lifeaudio.com Check out our new podcast, Christian True-Crime Junkies!, on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to podcasts! Connect with Us: Stay updated and engage with our community: On Substack @PrayingChristianWomen On Facebook @PrayingChristianWomen On Instagram @PrayingChristianWomen On YouTube: @PrayingChristianWomen Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Life Audio.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast.
[0:08] Speaker 2: I'm Jamie Hampton and today I'm so excited to be
[0:11] Speaker 2: here with Willow Weston. Willow is an author, a speaker,
[0:16] Speaker 2: a podcast host, and the founder of Collide, which is
[0:19] Speaker 2: a ministry impacting women nationwide. She has had decades of
[0:23] Speaker 2: experience bringing passion and truth and sharing her journey of
[0:27] Speaker 2: pain transparently to encourage others to just invite Jesus into
[0:32] Speaker 2: their brokenness and be healed as a result. Willow, thank
[0:35] Speaker 2: you for doing that. I know that's not easy, So
[0:38] Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. And I'm just
[0:40] Speaker 2: so excited to get to talk with you about your
[0:43] Speaker 2: new book, your brand new book, Collide, Running into Healing
[0:46] Speaker 2: when life hands you hurt. So thank thank you for
[0:49] Speaker 2: having me.
[0:50] Speaker 1: Yeah for having me, Jamie. I love what you are
[0:53] Speaker 1: about in what you do, and so this is just
[0:55] Speaker 1: a blessing for me too.
[0:57] Speaker 2: Well. Thanks. Well, before we get into your book and
[1:00] Speaker 2: your ministry and your message, we like to ask all
[1:03] Speaker 2: of our guests what is your favorite prayer closet? Like
[1:06] Speaker 2: in air quotes, where do you like to go to
[1:08] Speaker 2: the God? It could be crazy, off the wall, it
[1:10] Speaker 2: could be very you know, traditional.
[1:13] Speaker 1: It's not a closet. I'll tell you that. Every morning,
[1:17] Speaker 1: I think Rob and I have been married twenty seven
[1:21] Speaker 1: and a half years, and we literally thank you. We've
[1:25] Speaker 1: literally done this every day since we've been married. But
[1:29] Speaker 1: I have my place on the couch and the sectional,
[1:32] Speaker 1: and he has his on the other side, and he
[1:34] Speaker 1: makes coffee and he walks over and he hands me
[1:38] Speaker 1: my coffee, and he goes and reads and prays, and
[1:41] Speaker 1: I read and pray, and not in a religious way,
[1:44] Speaker 1: but it's almost to the point where I really don't
[1:49] Speaker 1: schedule things early in the morning. I don't do workouts
[1:52] Speaker 1: early in the morning. I don't do any work meetings
[1:55] Speaker 1: early in the morning because I'm actually grumpy if I
[1:57] Speaker 1: don't have my little like on that corner of the sectional.
[2:02] Speaker 1: And I'm becoming that old lady where you look at
[2:05] Speaker 1: the couch and it's like indented on that side of
[2:09] Speaker 1: the couch, because that's like my little spot every morning.
[2:12] Speaker 1: But I just need it, like I need that time
[2:16] Speaker 1: with the Lord to center my day. And so, yeah,
[2:18] Speaker 1: it's not a closet, but it definitely is with coffee.
[2:21] Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll drink coffee and kind of sit there
[2:25] Speaker 1: before I spend time reading and praying, because I make
[2:30] Speaker 1: a joke that I'm not sure even Jesus wants to
[2:32] Speaker 1: hang out with me before I have my coffee. It
[2:36] Speaker 1: is my place where I hang out with God every morning.
[2:40] Speaker 2: I love that. And in like I don't know how
[2:42] Speaker 2: long we've been podcasting seven eight, nine years, no one
[2:46] Speaker 2: has ever talked about sitting with their spouse. I've never
[2:49] Speaker 2: had anyone bring that into the picture. And I love that.
[2:54] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, just that. Yeah, that's that is really good.
[2:58] Speaker 2: Routines aren't easy, and for that length of time, for
[3:02] Speaker 2: that to be your routine consistently, that's incredible.
[3:07] Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't we don't read the same thing,
[3:10] Speaker 1: and we don't even often pray with each other. I
[3:13] Speaker 1: mean we do in other times, but in the morning
[3:15] Speaker 1: we're just kind of our bodies are like in the
[3:18] Speaker 1: same room, but we're connecting with God alone. But I
[3:22] Speaker 1: actually tell him, we joke around about this that when
[3:27] Speaker 1: one of us passes away, I think the hardest moment
[3:30] Speaker 1: of each day will be in the morning, because we
[3:33] Speaker 1: just have this time that we set aside every morning,
[3:37] Speaker 1: and it's just always been and I think the day
[3:39] Speaker 1: that he's not handing me my coffee cup or the
[3:43] Speaker 1: day that I'm not there across from him will be
[3:46] Speaker 1: hard to It's just become a part of our lives,
[3:48] Speaker 1: like we just do it every day.
[3:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, that's amazing. That's kind of like the
[3:53] Speaker 2: epitome of accountability for you guys to do that and
[3:58] Speaker 2: you're not studying the same thing, you're not crying together necessarily,
[4:01] Speaker 2: but you're just kind of being present. I love it. Oh,
[4:05] Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Willow.
[4:07] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[4:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, So tell us about your new book. So, how
[4:12] Speaker 2: did your new book Collide come about? What brought it
[4:16] Speaker 2: into being your book based?
[4:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I always thought I would write a book
[4:22] Speaker 1: for like the last twenty some years or something, and
[4:25] Speaker 1: I think I thought I would put this book out
[4:29] Speaker 1: a lot earlier than I have. And now I'm looking
[4:34] Speaker 1: at it and seeing that the Lord wanted me to
[4:36] Speaker 1: live more of the story that was going to be
[4:39] Speaker 1: put in the book than I had when I first
[4:41] Speaker 1: got this vision, which has been kind of interesting. But yeah,
[4:45] Speaker 1: I mean probably, you know, nineteen years ago or something,
[4:50] Speaker 1: I had had my second kiddo, Bella, and I had Aiden,
[4:55] Speaker 1: and I had Bella and my mom moved into town
[4:58] Speaker 1: to kind of be super grandma. And I hadn't lived
[5:01] Speaker 1: with my mom since I was fifteen years old. I
[5:04] Speaker 1: had another family that had to take me in in
[5:06] Speaker 1: high school and my mom hat and I had a
[5:08] Speaker 1: lot of baggage, a lot of wounds. There was a
[5:11] Speaker 1: lot of addiction and abandonment and just issues. And so
[5:16] Speaker 1: I'd met Jesus when I was twenty one, grew up
[5:19] Speaker 1: in an irreligious home, no church, had this radical conversion,
[5:23] Speaker 1: had spent a lot of time giving God my heartache
[5:26] Speaker 1: and my pain. But when my mom moved into town
[5:29] Speaker 1: and knocked on my door totally ordinary, like a mom
[5:32] Speaker 1: would popped by on a Wednesday, and I went to
[5:35] Speaker 1: go see who was at the door, and I saw her,
[5:37] Speaker 1: and I just flipped out, and I ran upstairs and
[5:42] Speaker 1: I hid in a closet with Bella because I didn't
[5:44] Speaker 1: want to answer the door. I didn't want to let
[5:46] Speaker 1: my mom in. And it was like, oh, my childhood
[5:48] Speaker 1: pain was just came flooding forward. And I had this
[5:52] Speaker 1: profound moment in that closet where so apparently I don't
[5:56] Speaker 1: have a prayer closet, Jamie, I have a pain closet.
[6:00] Speaker 1: But I'm in that closet, and God said, Willow, I've
[6:04] Speaker 1: done a lot of healing in your life, but there's
[6:07] Speaker 1: more that needs to be done, and you need to
[6:09] Speaker 1: walk out and you need to get some help. And
[6:12] Speaker 1: I remember just going wow, like I could easily just
[6:19] Speaker 1: walk out and not tell anyone that I'm not doing well,
[6:22] Speaker 1: you know, but I knew I needed help. And I
[6:25] Speaker 1: ended up in a Christian counseling office within a week
[6:28] Speaker 1: or two. And immediately the Christian councilor said, you need
[6:31] Speaker 1: to tell your mom you could only spend thirty minutes
[6:33] Speaker 1: a week with her. And I just the only way
[6:35] Speaker 1: I can explain it, Jamie, is like the counselor came
[6:38] Speaker 1: in the room, the Holy Spirit came in the room,
[6:41] Speaker 1: and I just yelled, No, that is not what I
[6:46] Speaker 1: need to do. I need to figure out how to
[6:48] Speaker 1: love the person who wounded me the most, that's my mom.
[6:52] Speaker 1: And I just started saying all the stuff that I'd
[6:55] Speaker 1: never heard before. The counselor wasn't saying anything. I just
[6:57] Speaker 1: was like I was born into ad, I collided with wounds.
[7:01] Speaker 1: I ran into my mother's wounds. She never got healing
[7:04] Speaker 1: for her wounds, and she wounded me, and now I
[7:06] Speaker 1: might wound my daughter. I need God to heal me.
[7:10] Speaker 1: We're all just walking around colliding with each other and
[7:13] Speaker 1: wounding each other, and we're in need of a new
[7:15] Speaker 1: kind of collision. And when I see Jesus in the
[7:17] Speaker 1: New Testament, he collides with people makes them more whole
[7:20] Speaker 1: and broken. And if we can become more whole, then
[7:23] Speaker 1: maybe when we run into wounded people, we can bring
[7:25] Speaker 1: healing instead of pain. And so I just was having
[7:27] Speaker 1: this epiphany and I paid the ladyier eighty five bucks,
[7:31] Speaker 1: and I heard God say as I was walking to
[7:34] Speaker 1: my car, you're going to do something with those words
[7:38] Speaker 1: wounded collision. And so that was, you know, my daughter's
[7:42] Speaker 1: twenty now, So that was what nineteen years ago that
[7:46] Speaker 1: I felt like the Lord gave me this message and
[7:49] Speaker 1: I was going to do something with it. But I
[7:51] Speaker 1: also was just hiding in a closet with my kid
[7:53] Speaker 1: and felt a mess, so I wasn't looking to like
[7:55] Speaker 1: do a thing. And then within weeks this call of
[7:59] Speaker 1: ased girl asked me to mentor her and I said yes,
[8:02] Speaker 1: I said, we could look at Jesus in the New
[8:04] Speaker 1: Testament colliding with wounded people and how he heals them.
[8:07] Speaker 1: And she said, can I bring some friends? And I
[8:09] Speaker 1: thought she'd bring four. She brought twenty five. And then
[8:11] Speaker 1: I just God threw this ministry into We minister now
[8:16] Speaker 1: to thousands of people a year, where we do conferences
[8:19] Speaker 1: and we have resources and Bible study books and a
[8:23] Speaker 1: podcasting and counseling for all this stuff. I joke around, Lord,
[8:27] Speaker 1: I did not apply for this job, but he just
[8:31] Speaker 1: unfolded this ministry. And the whole time, I was also
[8:34] Speaker 1: raising my kids and I was like still needing him
[8:38] Speaker 1: to heal me. But the more I was going to
[8:41] Speaker 1: him to heal me, he was also using my pain
[8:43] Speaker 1: to help heal others. And he was writing this story
[8:47] Speaker 1: that eventually would unfold and it would become time to
[8:52] Speaker 1: tell it in a book. And so I finally released
[8:56] Speaker 1: this book called Collide, Running into Healing when Life Hands
[9:00] Speaker 1: to Hurt. And yeah, that's that's the short version of
[9:05] Speaker 1: what the last twenty years has looked like, Damie.
[9:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm still stuck back in the counseling office
[9:10] Speaker 2: as a people pleaser. I'm just like in awe of
[9:14] Speaker 2: your ability to say no and to hear from the
[9:18] Speaker 2: Lord and can you just talk about that, because counseling
[9:22] Speaker 2: is important. I think it's I believe in counseling. I
[9:25] Speaker 2: think it's great. But some of God's wisdom goes against
[9:31] Speaker 2: the world's wisdom or even a Christian counselor's wisdom. Can
[9:34] Speaker 2: you talk about that? I think as Christian women we
[9:37] Speaker 2: have to have the conversation about when do we listen
[9:42] Speaker 2: to the experts air quotes, when do we listen to
[9:46] Speaker 2: what we believe God is telling us? And how do
[9:49] Speaker 2: we know if that's how do we know the difference?
[9:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a good question and honestly not one
[9:56] Speaker 1: that people have asked me before. I want to say
[10:00] Speaker 1: right up front that I ended up going to a
[10:02] Speaker 1: different therapist after that therapist, and I was seeking counsel
[10:07] Speaker 1: from not only my husband, but my close Christian friends,
[10:12] Speaker 1: my pastors and mentors in my life. So I wasn't
[10:15] Speaker 1: sort of being reckless with like godly counsel by any means.
[10:20] Speaker 1: And I'm not really the type to like yell at
[10:21] Speaker 1: a counselor. In fact, I've been way more amicable and
[10:25] Speaker 1: open to things. It was such a clear thing that
[10:31] Speaker 1: the spirit was saying to me. It was so clear
[10:34] Speaker 1: that that's what I mean. It was almost like someone
[10:36] Speaker 1: else stepped into the room. I never had had that
[10:38] Speaker 1: experience like that before, and I just knew. It's not
[10:41] Speaker 1: that I don't think boundaries are absolutely necessary in relationship,
[10:45] Speaker 1: and I've had to have plenty of boundaries with my mom.
[10:48] Speaker 1: But God was actually challenging me into something more than boundaries.
[10:53] Speaker 1: He was actually challenging me in saying, Willow, you need
[10:59] Speaker 1: to get healings you don't hurt your daughter. But also
[11:03] Speaker 1: I want to heal you in such a way that
[11:05] Speaker 1: you actually bring healing to your mom instead of more pain,
[11:10] Speaker 1: because your absence from your mom's life and you pushing
[11:13] Speaker 1: her away and you not spending time with her is
[11:16] Speaker 1: not going to help her to know me. Wow, I
[11:19] Speaker 1: actually want you to figure out how to love her
[11:23] Speaker 1: who wounded you the most, the way I love the
[11:28] Speaker 1: people who've wounded me the most. That was I'll tell
[11:31] Speaker 1: you what I knew. It was God, because I would
[11:34] Speaker 1: never chose that in my own flesh. I would have
[11:36] Speaker 1: never been like that. Sounds like a fun assignment. I've
[11:40] Speaker 1: been waiting for years to have a counselor prescribed me
[11:43] Speaker 1: to push my mom out of my life. That would
[11:46] Speaker 1: be have been so much easier. She was a terrible
[11:49] Speaker 1: alcoholic and so hard to deal with and I hated
[11:51] Speaker 1: being around her. It would have Oh, this is counselor approved, Mom,
[11:55] Speaker 1: I don't need to spend very much time with you.
[11:57] Speaker 1: So I knew this isn't something like go to Hawaii
[12:01] Speaker 1: and you know, lay on the beach for three months
[12:04] Speaker 1: and drink pini clattas like I was being given a
[12:08] Speaker 1: challenge by God. That sounded like him. It sounded like him, Jamie,
[12:13] Speaker 1: Like I think if you spend time looking at the
[12:16] Speaker 1: life of Jesus, when you hear him, it sounds like him.
[12:20] Speaker 1: It's like he's actually saying, like, I gave up my
[12:24] Speaker 1: life for people who wounded me and betrayed me and
[12:28] Speaker 1: hurt me and turned their backs on me, and I'm
[12:30] Speaker 1: asking you to figure out how to get so whole
[12:33] Speaker 1: in me that you're able to do that. So it
[12:48] Speaker 1: definitely didn't feel like something I would make up in
[12:50] Speaker 1: my own head because it wasn't going to be easy.
[12:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that, And you know, I'm thinking of
[12:57] Speaker 2: those day after day of sitting there reading the book,
[13:00] Speaker 2: being in God's word, talking to him. That is the
[13:03] Speaker 2: foundation that allowed you to have that experience and say, oh, yeah, okay,
[13:11] Speaker 2: this is God, this is this is what he sounds like.
[13:14] Speaker 2: This is in line, like complete alignment with what he says.
[13:18] Speaker 2: So what if someone is listening right now, I'm throwing
[13:20] Speaker 2: you some curveballs. I didn't send these questions over you
[13:23] Speaker 2: ahead of my love.
[13:23] Speaker 1: Curve ballsy, let's sell with this spirit.
[13:26] Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, like the person listening right now who
[13:29] Speaker 2: has a toxic relationship or who has had in the
[13:32] Speaker 2: past a toxic relationship, and that person's trying to come
[13:35] Speaker 2: back in or whatever, what would you say are the
[13:38] Speaker 2: steps of discernment? Because for some people the right answer
[13:42] Speaker 2: might be thirty minutes a day. You're not saying that
[13:45] Speaker 2: you're hearing from God that that wasn't correct, isn't necessarily
[13:49] Speaker 2: someone else's correct. And I think that's important. So, I mean,
[13:53] Speaker 2: I'm hearing you talk about asking from multiple different sources
[13:57] Speaker 2: of godly counsel, looking at at God's word. But what
[14:02] Speaker 2: is like a first step for someone who's just thinking,
[14:04] Speaker 2: what do I even do? Do I set the boundary?
[14:07] Speaker 2: Do I where do I even go to seek healing?
[14:10] Speaker 2: How do I even do this?
[14:12] Speaker 1: I love this conversation because I think we absolutely have
[14:15] Speaker 1: to say that there's not actually a formula. I can't
[14:18] Speaker 1: answer you and give you a formula because if I
[14:21] Speaker 1: sat down with each one of your listeners and I
[14:24] Speaker 1: heard their story, and I heard the intricacies of their pain,
[14:28] Speaker 1: and I heard the way they feel burdened, how much
[14:31] Speaker 1: they love the person who hurt them, but how hurtful
[14:34] Speaker 1: it is. And if if I got to process with them,
[14:38] Speaker 1: I might have specific a specific sense of intuition or
[14:43] Speaker 1: discernment that I could potentially offer them. But I can't
[14:47] Speaker 1: actually give a formula because there have been times in
[14:50] Speaker 1: my life where I had to lay out some pretty
[14:54] Speaker 1: serious boundaries with my mom when it had to do
[14:57] Speaker 1: with her time with my children. And that doesn't mean
[15:02] Speaker 1: that I wasn't loving to my mom or that I
[15:04] Speaker 1: didn't love her like Christ, but I also didn't want
[15:07] Speaker 1: her to hurt my kids. And so there was a
[15:10] Speaker 1: time where my father, who was absent most of my
[15:13] Speaker 1: life and then started showing up when I was eight
[15:15] Speaker 1: a couple four times a year or something, I would
[15:19] Speaker 1: visit him. By the time I hit college, I was
[15:21] Speaker 1: so angry with him for not being there for me
[15:25] Speaker 1: and not rescuing me from the trauma and the pain
[15:28] Speaker 1: and the abuse and stuff that I experienced as a
[15:29] Speaker 1: little girl. I stopped speaking to him for a couple
[15:33] Speaker 1: of years. I'm not giving anyone up her mission slip
[15:36] Speaker 1: to go just stop speaking to people. But I will
[15:38] Speaker 1: tell you this. We have gone through things none of
[15:42] Speaker 1: us should have ever had to go through before. And
[15:45] Speaker 1: I needed that time with my dad to process with
[15:50] Speaker 1: a therapist why I was so angry. I had to
[15:54] Speaker 1: name the pain first. I had to get to a
[15:55] Speaker 1: place where my therapist said, why don't you write a letter?
[15:59] Speaker 1: Never mail it. I had to write a letter I
[16:01] Speaker 1: never planned on mailing to my dad, to tell him
[16:04] Speaker 1: pages and pages of the ways I felt hurt by him.
[16:08] Speaker 1: I had to do that work, and then I ended
[16:11] Speaker 1: up mailing it, and this beautiful process happened between us,
[16:15] Speaker 1: where he not only owned all of his absence and
[16:19] Speaker 1: the pain that caused and how much he that haunted
[16:23] Speaker 1: his life, but I finally got to release him and
[16:27] Speaker 1: forgive him, which released me. But I don't think I
[16:30] Speaker 1: could have gotten there because one I showed up to
[16:33] Speaker 1: church and my pastor said, forgive, because Jesus forgives you.
[16:36] Speaker 1: I think I had to go through a hard process
[16:39] Speaker 1: of really feeling angry and really having to recognize why
[16:43] Speaker 1: I was angry. Where we go wrong though, is I
[16:47] Speaker 1: think we just we kind of surround ourselves with kind
[16:51] Speaker 1: of like yes people, yeah, and they just tell us like, oh, girl, yeah,
[16:55] Speaker 1: you're your dad was a loser. You should just disown him,
[16:59] Speaker 1: never talk to him again, girl, Or like, yeah, you
[17:03] Speaker 1: can get better with your husband, like you could get
[17:05] Speaker 1: a better man, like all this stuff. We surround ourselves
[17:08] Speaker 1: with people who just kind of tell us what we
[17:10] Speaker 1: want to hear. And if we surround ourselves with, you know,
[17:15] Speaker 1: godly counsel, people who truly are seeking the Lord, praying
[17:19] Speaker 1: to the Lord, reading as scriptures, a Christian therapist who's
[17:22] Speaker 1: the same pastors, and we're going to them and we're
[17:26] Speaker 1: telling them like, hey, my mom moved into town and
[17:29] Speaker 1: she's an alcoholic and she's broken and she doesn't know
[17:34] Speaker 1: Jesus and she needs his love and I want to
[17:36] Speaker 1: show her his love, but also I don't want her
[17:38] Speaker 1: alcoholism to bleed all over my children. I'm like processing
[17:42] Speaker 1: that with godly counsel, and they're all kind of like
[17:45] Speaker 1: saying the same thing, and they're listening to my hurt
[17:48] Speaker 1: and there they're listening to God and his ability to
[17:52] Speaker 1: redeem and heal. I think we're going to get somewhere
[17:55] Speaker 1: that honors Jesus. But I think if we're just listening
[17:59] Speaker 1: to people who tell us the easy way, we're going
[18:02] Speaker 1: to just keep having broken relationships that never experience peace
[18:07] Speaker 1: or forgiveness or redemption because just cutting everybody off because
[18:11] Speaker 1: they're hurt. The truth is we're all hurt, we're all wounded,
[18:14] Speaker 1: and we're all wounding each other. And God can heal,
[18:17] Speaker 1: God can redeem, God can bring peace in relationships that
[18:20] Speaker 1: feel completely wrecked. But we have to be open to
[18:25] Speaker 1: the idea that he can.
[18:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, that is all so good, and yeah, I know
[18:31] Speaker 2: that a lot of people probably really need to hear that.
[18:35] Speaker 2: Can you just talk about this word and this concept
[18:40] Speaker 2: of collide and you touched on it, but can you
[18:43] Speaker 2: just go in a little bit more depth, like what
[18:46] Speaker 2: does that mean to you the title collide and how
[18:48] Speaker 2: is that concept kind of woven throughout your book?
[18:52] Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, like I said, I met Jesus when
[18:55] Speaker 1: I was twenty one years old, and I kind of
[18:58] Speaker 1: like to say he wrecked my life in a good way.
[19:01] Speaker 1: I mean it was like it was a collision. Like
[19:04] Speaker 1: when I met him and I saw who he is
[19:08] Speaker 1: and how he is and what he offers me. I mean,
[19:13] Speaker 1: it just literally changed my life upside down for the better.
[19:18] Speaker 1: And when I see him in the New Testament and
[19:21] Speaker 1: he runs into people, there's kind of a before and after, right,
[19:25] Speaker 1: There's just like people are never left the same after
[19:29] Speaker 1: they run into Jesus. And so I've spent the last
[19:33] Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty years just being in love with
[19:37] Speaker 1: watching Jesus run into people in the Bible. I mean
[19:40] Speaker 1: you see him with the woman at the well, and
[19:43] Speaker 1: he's traveling somewhere, and you see him completely re route
[19:47] Speaker 1: his trip to go meet one lady who has a
[19:51] Speaker 1: terrible reputation. No one respected her, she didn't respect herself.
[19:56] Speaker 1: She'd gone from man to man to man, and he
[19:58] Speaker 1: goes out of his way for her. And I saw
[20:01] Speaker 1: that and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm her.
[20:05] Speaker 1: I'm her Like I went from you know, being wounded
[20:09] Speaker 1: by my parents to going to college and partying and
[20:13] Speaker 1: sleeping around, just longing for someone to choose me and
[20:16] Speaker 1: love me. And I see Jesus and he goes out
[20:19] Speaker 1: of his way to run into people like me. And
[20:22] Speaker 1: then I see him. He's on his way to heal
[20:24] Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl who's dying, and that's a
[20:28] Speaker 1: really important mission, it's so important. And on his way,
[20:31] Speaker 1: this woman fights for her own healing and she reaches
[20:35] Speaker 1: for the hem of his robe, and he could just
[20:39] Speaker 1: be like, I don't have time for you, chick, but
[20:41] Speaker 1: he actually doesn't. He stops for her. He stops right
[20:45] Speaker 1: there for her, and they have this run and it
[20:48] Speaker 1: completely heals her life. And he actually calls her daughter
[20:52] Speaker 1: and she falls down at his feet and she tells
[20:54] Speaker 1: him her whole truth. And it's just this beautiful collision.
[20:57] Speaker 1: And I think about Jesus, where you know, he's in
[21:00] Speaker 1: the boat with his disciples and there's the famous storm
[21:02] Speaker 1: and they're all peeling their pants and he's chilling, and
[21:06] Speaker 1: he bosses the wind and the waves around and then
[21:09] Speaker 1: that same boat gets to the shore and you see Jesus.
[21:13] Speaker 1: And I write about this in the book because it's
[21:14] Speaker 1: crazy because Jesus gets out of the boat, but you
[21:16] Speaker 1: don't see the disciples getting out of the boat. They
[21:19] Speaker 1: want to say cozy and comfortable, but Jesus gets out
[21:21] Speaker 1: of the boat on purpose and goes and runs into
[21:25] Speaker 1: a man who's living as an outcast. He's been shunned
[21:28] Speaker 1: to live in the tombs. He's cutting himself, he's crying
[21:32] Speaker 1: out day and night. He's broken the chains that people
[21:35] Speaker 1: try to bind him with because he scared people, so
[21:37] Speaker 1: they tried to lock him up. We do the same thing,
[21:40] Speaker 1: and here's Jesus. He goes out of his way to
[21:43] Speaker 1: collide with this guy. And by the time Jesus is
[21:45] Speaker 1: done running into this guy's life, he's now he was naked,
[21:49] Speaker 1: now he's dressed. Scripture says, he's in his right mind,
[21:51] Speaker 1: and he's begging Jesus, please let me go with you.
[21:55] Speaker 1: I just want to go with you. And Jesus says, no,
[21:58] Speaker 1: I want you to go back into your cammunity, the
[22:00] Speaker 1: community that hurt you, go back to the people that
[22:04] Speaker 1: hurt you, and I want you to tell them what
[22:05] Speaker 1: the Lord has done for your life. And so the
[22:09] Speaker 1: whole concept of collide is like, we have a God
[22:12] Speaker 1: who left heaven the perfect place on his throne, and
[22:16] Speaker 1: he comes down. He moves into our hood and it's
[22:19] Speaker 1: messy and it's broken and it's dysfunctional, and he chooses
[22:22] Speaker 1: us anyways, and he does life with us, and you
[22:24] Speaker 1: see him doing life with us, and he enters mess
[22:26] Speaker 1: and he touches mess, and he takes wounds and mess
[22:29] Speaker 1: on himself on the cross and says, by my wounds,
[22:32] Speaker 1: you are healed. Like I'm gonna take all your wounds
[22:34] Speaker 1: on and so that you can be finally whole. And
[22:40] Speaker 1: so I just started to look at the life of
[22:43] Speaker 1: Jesus and go, wow, he runs right into our lives
[22:46] Speaker 1: and when he does, we are made more wold and broken,
[22:50] Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful thing. And it became a thing
[22:53] Speaker 1: for me where I wasn't just reading about it, like
[22:56] Speaker 1: I think we kind of treat the Bible like some
[22:59] Speaker 1: sort of like historical text where it's like, oh, Jesus
[23:02] Speaker 1: did this then, But actually, you know, when that girl
[23:05] Speaker 1: I was mentoring, she broad her twenty five college age
[23:08] Speaker 1: girlfriends over and we started meeting in my living room,
[23:11] Speaker 1: and like, as we were watching him heal these people
[23:14] Speaker 1: in the New test Andy, he started healing us. He
[23:17] Speaker 1: started showing up in our pain. And that was a
[23:22] Speaker 1: crazy thing. And that's what I've seen him do over
[23:25] Speaker 1: and over again, is that he's actually still healing today.
[23:29] Speaker 1: And if we let him enter the mess and enter
[23:32] Speaker 1: the pain instead of avoiding it and acting like we're
[23:35] Speaker 1: put together and we're good and we needed Jesus twenty
[23:38] Speaker 1: years ago when we gave our life him, but we're
[23:40] Speaker 1: good now, we don't need him. But we actually let
[23:42] Speaker 1: him enter it, he will make us more whole.
[23:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, that is such a powerful picture, just to see
[23:48] Speaker 2: him doing that, And it's convicting for me because I
[23:51] Speaker 2: guess everyone maybe, but I know for myself it's hard
[23:55] Speaker 2: to run into people's pain for lots of reasons. It's
[24:00] Speaker 2: it's uncomfortable. It's you're not sure what to do. Sometimes
[24:04] Speaker 2: you're not sure if you're going to make a mistake
[24:05] Speaker 2: or say something wrong, and so sometimes it's more comfortable
[24:09] Speaker 2: to stand back. And I'm thinking maybe with your mom
[24:12] Speaker 2: it was a similar thing where you had your own pain,
[24:17] Speaker 2: but then even after recognizing that she had her pain,
[24:20] Speaker 2: that had to be hard to engage. It's like, we
[24:23] Speaker 2: all have our own stuff, and so it's almost like
[24:25] Speaker 2: sometimes whether it's the busyness of my life, whether it's
[24:29] Speaker 2: my own baggage, it's like, Okay, my plate is only
[24:32] Speaker 2: so big, and I'm afraid I'm not going to be
[24:34] Speaker 2: able to if I even begin to enter into someone
[24:39] Speaker 2: else's pain, that I will not be able to see
[24:42] Speaker 2: it through, that it's going to be too much. And
[24:45] Speaker 2: so seeing Jesus, and Jesus had boundaries too, But seeing
[24:49] Speaker 2: Jesus running toward the people, like the people that he
[24:53] Speaker 2: made a bee line for were those who were desperate
[24:56] Speaker 2: and in pain because they were open, they were at
[24:59] Speaker 2: the end of them. So else Meanwhile, you have the
[25:01] Speaker 2: Pharisees who were full of themselves and had no interest
[25:04] Speaker 2: in him and in fact wanted him gone. So can
[25:08] Speaker 2: you talk about that process of not only let's start
[25:12] Speaker 2: first with the beautiful knowledge that God runs toward our
[25:17] Speaker 2: pain and accepting that. Can you just talk a little
[25:20] Speaker 2: bit about you know, why is that message so important
[25:23] Speaker 2: for women to understand that Jesus runs toward pain, He's
[25:27] Speaker 2: not afraid of it.
[25:28] Speaker 1: I mean, with a little kid, we slap a band
[25:30] Speaker 1: aid on when they're crying and we're like, stop crying.
[25:33] Speaker 1: You have a band aid now, and they're trying to
[25:35] Speaker 1: stop crying, but it still hurts. I think we've been
[25:39] Speaker 1: told sweeping under the rug, move on, be strong, be tough,
[25:43] Speaker 1: pray and you'll be good. And that's not working. And
[25:48] Speaker 1: so any kind of unresolved pain, whether it's big trauma
[25:52] Speaker 1: or little hurts, if it's unhealed and unresolved, it's going
[25:57] Speaker 1: to come out sideways. And what I think is happening
[26:01] Speaker 1: if you look at your own life, or you look
[26:04] Speaker 1: at your friends or your family, look at your family
[26:07] Speaker 1: or people you know from work or school or whatever,
[26:11] Speaker 1: unresolved pain is wreaking havoc like wounded people, wound people,
[26:15] Speaker 1: wounds just travel. It's just a contagion. And so what
[26:19] Speaker 1: we have to recognize is that our avoidance of pain
[26:22] Speaker 1: is actually causing more of it. It's not working well.
[26:26] Speaker 1: You don't see a god who avoids pain. That's what's
[26:29] Speaker 1: crazy about Jesus. Like, look at what we know about Jesus.
[26:33] Speaker 1: He's on an all out pursuit. He's chasing down people
[26:36] Speaker 1: in pain. He's running towards the leopards, he's running towards
[26:38] Speaker 1: the blind people's He stops in a house party for
[26:41] Speaker 1: a paralytic that's you know, raised down by four friends.
[26:45] Speaker 1: Through the roof. He meets the hemorrhaging woman that I
[26:48] Speaker 1: was talking about. I mean, over and over again. He
[26:50] Speaker 1: touches and heals the man with a shriveled hand. He
[26:52] Speaker 1: goes to the guy by the stirring waters who's waiting
[26:56] Speaker 1: for the waters to heal him. Jesus is on an
[26:59] Speaker 1: all out pursuit to enter people's mess and pain, and
[27:02] Speaker 1: then he takes it on himself on the cross. And
[27:07] Speaker 1: so I don't understand why we've bought into the idea
[27:11] Speaker 1: that we're just supposed to sort of sweet pain under
[27:14] Speaker 1: the rug and it's gonna go away. The only way
[27:16] Speaker 1: that you can heal pain is by letting Jesus come
[27:19] Speaker 1: in and mend and restore it, the only way. And
[27:23] Speaker 1: if you don't give him your pain, if you don't
[27:25] Speaker 1: name your pain, if you aren't real about it, if
[27:29] Speaker 1: you're still buying into the idea that you have to
[27:31] Speaker 1: move on somehow because you're a Christian. I mean, look,
[27:34] Speaker 1: I spoke at a retreat once and there was this,
[27:37] Speaker 1: you know, beautiful thirty year old lady probably, and she
[27:42] Speaker 1: just she came up to me after every session that
[27:44] Speaker 1: I spoke at lunch during the break and it just
[27:47] Speaker 1: kept being like, I don't know, I'm crying, and I'm like,
[27:49] Speaker 1: I don't know why you're crying either, but it's okay
[27:52] Speaker 1: to cry and then it was like the next time,
[27:54] Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm crying, Like this thing happened
[27:56] Speaker 1: ten years ago, and I shouldn't be crying, Like I
[27:59] Speaker 1: have a savior, I'm good with God. And then finally,
[28:01] Speaker 1: when we had time during lunch break, I'm just like,
[28:05] Speaker 1: why don't you tell me what happened to you ten
[28:07] Speaker 1: years ago? You keep wondering why you're crying. You keep
[28:10] Speaker 1: thinking you should be good because you have God. What
[28:12] Speaker 1: happened ten years ago? And she said, well, I was
[28:15] Speaker 1: dating a guy and he didn't share the same faith
[28:19] Speaker 1: and values as me, and I felt like I was
[28:21] Speaker 1: supposed to break up with him, and I broke up
[28:23] Speaker 1: with him and he killed himself. And she said, my
[28:27] Speaker 1: pastors and my spiritual mentors told me you did the
[28:31] Speaker 1: right thing. You have God, you should be good, move on.
[28:34] Speaker 1: And I just said, when someone kills themselves, that's really sad,
[28:40] Speaker 1: that's so sad. You're sad. You're still sad because you're
[28:43] Speaker 1: still sad. And I think like we need to give
[28:47] Speaker 1: each other permission to be sad, to be mad, to
[28:49] Speaker 1: feel disappointed, to grieve, to name the pain you If
[28:54] Speaker 1: you aren't given permission to say, you know what I
[28:56] Speaker 1: experienced this and it sucks and it hurt and hard.
[29:01] Speaker 1: Then you're just going in her mind, the theology that
[29:04] Speaker 1: she believed was like God is good, so I should
[29:07] Speaker 1: be good, right, But her pain was leaking out sideways.
[29:11] Speaker 1: I can't imagine how that was impacting her marriage and
[29:15] Speaker 1: her kids because she had this unresolved pain. So I
[29:19] Speaker 1: think our avoidance of pain is not working. And God
[29:23] Speaker 1: is not a god who avoids pain. He's a God
[29:26] Speaker 1: on an all out pursuit to heal pain. So I
[29:29] Speaker 1: think we really need to shift, like, oh, my avoidance
[29:33] Speaker 1: is actually hurting other people. I'm actually my pain is
[29:36] Speaker 1: starting to hurt the people that I love the most,
[29:39] Speaker 1: and I need God to come in and heal me.
[29:41] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's kind of a like overused example probably,
[29:45] Speaker 2: but just you know, when you have this pain and
[29:48] Speaker 2: you just kind of mask it, like this woman I
[29:51] Speaker 2: think was encouraged to do or made to feel like
[29:54] Speaker 2: that's what she was supposed to do as a good Christian,
[29:57] Speaker 2: I mean, it just festers. It festers, and so what
[30:01] Speaker 2: does it practically look like? You know, you talk about
[30:05] Speaker 2: slowing down and meeting Jesus in your pain, what does
[30:10] Speaker 2: that look like practically speaking.
[30:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's such a big question with so
[30:17] Speaker 1: many answers. I mean, when I look at Jesus, he
[30:21] Speaker 1: meets all of these different people with different pain, and
[30:26] Speaker 1: so it always looks different. But one thing that I
[30:29] Speaker 1: would say feels like it always looks the same is this.
[30:35] Speaker 1: I think that we do one of two things in
[30:38] Speaker 1: our lives with pain. Besides avoid it. We when we
[30:42] Speaker 1: decide we want to heal it. We either go, oh,
[30:44] Speaker 1: God has to heal me. Like I'm just gonna wait
[30:47] Speaker 1: for God to wave a magic wand and I'm gonna
[30:49] Speaker 1: wake up on Wednesday. I'm gonna be healed. I'm gonna
[30:52] Speaker 1: be like someone's gonna put me on the prayer chain.
[30:54] Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the miracle they all prayed for, you know.
[30:57] Speaker 1: And that's great. And God can do miracle. He has
[31:01] Speaker 1: way more power than a magic wand. But the other
[31:04] Speaker 1: thing we do is we go, I have to heal me.
[31:07] Speaker 1: I have to do all the stuff. I have to
[31:10] Speaker 1: eat kale and I have to go on a keto diet,
[31:12] Speaker 1: and I have to, you know, make all these amends.
[31:15] Speaker 1: And like I have all this stuff I have to
[31:18] Speaker 1: do too, and the mistake I think in both of
[31:21] Speaker 1: those is that it's actually both. I think it's both.
[31:25] Speaker 1: And why I think it's both is when I see
[31:27] Speaker 1: Jesus colliding with people in the New Testament. And I'll
[31:30] Speaker 1: use the guy waiting at the Stirring waters as an example.
[31:33] Speaker 1: He shows up to this guy and the guy is thinking,
[31:37] Speaker 1: if I just do this one thing, if I just
[31:40] Speaker 1: get to these waters, and Jesus is standing there, and
[31:43] Speaker 1: it's fascinating. Jesus has already shown me as so much
[31:46] Speaker 1: power to heal. He is the healer standing right in
[31:49] Speaker 1: front of the guy. And this guy is still talking
[31:51] Speaker 1: about if I just do these things, so he's relying
[31:53] Speaker 1: on himself like to heal himself. And Jesus says, do
[31:58] Speaker 1: you want to get hold who? You want to get well?
[32:01] Speaker 1: And the word want is the word thilo, and it
[32:03] Speaker 1: means to not only want something, but to purpose it
[32:05] Speaker 1: to action. So he's actually like beginning to suggest that
[32:10] Speaker 1: we have to participate in the healing we long for,
[32:13] Speaker 1: that we actually have to want our own healing as
[32:16] Speaker 1: much as we want God to want it. We can't
[32:18] Speaker 1: just sit around and be like, oh God, I just
[32:21] Speaker 1: pray that you make my body healthy. But In the meantime,
[32:24] Speaker 1: I'm gonna snarf on nachos and drink three gien and
[32:27] Speaker 1: Tonics every night. Like that, that doesn't work. He wants
[32:32] Speaker 1: us to participate in our own health and wellness, but
[32:35] Speaker 1: also not to rely only on ourselves, but with him,
[32:39] Speaker 1: to walk towards to walk towards healing. So when you
[32:42] Speaker 1: see Jesus with this guy, he's been there thirty eight years.
[32:46] Speaker 1: That's so long to feel stuck so long, and Jesus's
[32:51] Speaker 1: pick up your mat and walk, I would imagine a
[32:54] Speaker 1: guy who's been sitting somewhere not able to move from
[32:59] Speaker 1: a stuck place for almost four decades. Is like, bro, Jesus,
[33:05] Speaker 1: did you not get the memo, I'm the guy who
[33:07] Speaker 1: doesn't walk. You're asking me to pick up my mat
[33:10] Speaker 1: and walk. I don't walk, and Jesus is saying, I'm
[33:13] Speaker 1: actually asking you to move. Part of healing requires that
[33:18] Speaker 1: we not only believe God has power to heal, but
[33:21] Speaker 1: that we are willing to participate in the healing we
[33:24] Speaker 1: long for. It is absolutely both. God empowers us and
[33:28] Speaker 1: gives us agency. And you can say, well, I've tried things,
[33:32] Speaker 1: I've tried things. Well, what is one thing today? You
[33:36] Speaker 1: can do that you have not yet done, And I
[33:39] Speaker 1: don't know what that is for each of us. It's different, right,
[33:42] Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, For me with my dad, it was
[33:45] Speaker 1: writing a letter I never planned on sending. That was
[33:48] Speaker 1: something I could do. It didn't mean that I could
[33:50] Speaker 1: make my dad change, but I could write about my
[33:54] Speaker 1: pain and the pain that I felt like he caused.
[33:57] Speaker 1: I could write to him and never plan on sending it.
[33:59] Speaker 1: But months later or a year later, whatever the time was,
[34:04] Speaker 1: when I wrote it and I read it to my therapists,
[34:07] Speaker 1: the next move, God asked me to make his actually
[34:09] Speaker 1: put it in the mail, to actually send that letter.
[34:14] Speaker 1: And so there have been different times in my life
[34:17] Speaker 1: where the move that God is asking me to participate
[34:21] Speaker 1: in looks different. And what it looks like for you
[34:24] Speaker 1: is different than what it looks like for me, because
[34:26] Speaker 1: we have different pain. But I think God, He's gonna
[34:29] Speaker 1: ask you if you go to him, he wants to
[34:31] Speaker 1: enter your pain. He wants to agree with you and
[34:33] Speaker 1: wants to weep with you. He wants to hold you,
[34:35] Speaker 1: he wants to listen to you and process and be
[34:37] Speaker 1: a safe space for you can name pain, and he
[34:39] Speaker 1: already knows your pain there's not a freaking thing that
[34:43] Speaker 1: you have experienced that he does not know about. But
[34:46] Speaker 1: he wants you, like a good dad, to go to
[34:49] Speaker 1: him and bring him your pain, and he's gonna hold
[34:52] Speaker 1: it with you. But he might ask you to make
[34:54] Speaker 1: a move. And if he asks you to make a move,
[34:58] Speaker 1: that move is one step closer to your wholeness than
[35:02] Speaker 1: you were yesterday.
[35:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think sometimes we can get paralyzed by
[35:20] Speaker 2: not seeing the in between steps and thinking. You know,
[35:23] Speaker 2: you look at a person maybe who's on the other
[35:25] Speaker 2: side of healing, or you imagine what your life might
[35:28] Speaker 2: be like completely free from the bondage of your pain,
[35:33] Speaker 2: and you think that's impossible. And then but you know,
[35:36] Speaker 2: I love that you're saying, give yourself permission to take
[35:39] Speaker 2: one small step like you, I bet you wouldn't have
[35:42] Speaker 2: written that letter if God had told you were going
[35:45] Speaker 2: to have to send it. I mean, that would have
[35:47] Speaker 2: probably been really difficult. So to look for the micro step,
[35:51] Speaker 2: like what is the one thing God's asking me to
[35:54] Speaker 2: do right in front of me, and then let him
[35:56] Speaker 2: worry about how that leads to healing.
[35:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you.
[36:02] Speaker 2: Know we're a prayer podcast. What kind of Yeah, what
[36:05] Speaker 2: kind of host would I be if I didn't ask
[36:07] Speaker 2: you about what role has prayer played in your personal healing?
[36:12] Speaker 2: And you talk about a partnership of not just saying Okay,
[36:18] Speaker 2: God heal me, but what role does prayer play on
[36:21] Speaker 2: all the levels of healing that you kind of have
[36:23] Speaker 2: talked about.
[36:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, oh goodness, I'm thinking over the years
[36:30] Speaker 1: of all the ways. I mean, prayer to me is
[36:33] Speaker 1: really talking to God, listening to God, being with God.
[36:38] Speaker 1: And over the years, I've needed that for so many things.
[36:46] Speaker 1: And I remember when I was first going to a
[36:52] Speaker 1: Christian therapist. I didn't go to her because she was Christian.
[36:55] Speaker 1: I wasn't a Christian. I was twenty years old. I
[36:58] Speaker 1: was completely broken. I was no longer speaking to my dad.
[37:03] Speaker 1: My mom lived all the way across the country and
[37:06] Speaker 1: I hadn't lived with her since I was a kid.
[37:08] Speaker 1: I felt alone. I felt on my own. I didn't
[37:12] Speaker 1: believe in a God or a higher power. I not
[37:16] Speaker 1: only been wounded by my parents and other characters growing
[37:20] Speaker 1: up and hadn't told anybody the things that happened to
[37:22] Speaker 1: me for two decades. But I was starting to hurt
[37:25] Speaker 1: my own life and found myself withdrawing from class in
[37:31] Speaker 1: a hotel. I didn't want to live anymore. I mean,
[37:33] Speaker 1: I was as broken as they come. I ended up
[37:35] Speaker 1: in a counseling office. Someone recommended this counselor and she
[37:39] Speaker 1: was Christian, and she actually I was starting to seek
[37:43] Speaker 1: is there a God? And who is Jesus? And God
[37:47] Speaker 1: had kind of surrounded me. He was stalking me, is
[37:50] Speaker 1: how I like to think about it. He was just
[37:51] Speaker 1: surrounding me with all these Christians. And I was like,
[37:54] Speaker 1: oh man, I'd never wanted to give any Christians a chance,
[37:58] Speaker 1: and he was trying to get a hold of my life.
[38:01] Speaker 1: And here I was in this therapist's office who loved Jesus,
[38:05] Speaker 1: and she and I started talking about God and she
[38:09] Speaker 1: asked me if, she said, when you think of one
[38:13] Speaker 1: of the hardest things you experienced as a child, I
[38:16] Speaker 1: want you to think of that right now, which is
[38:18] Speaker 1: a hard thing to do in general. And it was
[38:21] Speaker 1: really weird because the imagery I got was not a
[38:24] Speaker 1: picture of violence. It wasn't a picture of you know,
[38:31] Speaker 1: seeing people using drugs or being scared people were after us,
[38:35] Speaker 1: or it wasn't any of this crazy stuff. I pictured
[38:39] Speaker 1: myself alone on this like purply plumb colored, old tattered
[38:44] Speaker 1: velvet chair petting my cat when I was a little girl.
[38:49] Speaker 1: And she asked me, why that's what I pictured and
[38:52] Speaker 1: I and I said, I used to spend so much
[38:55] Speaker 1: time being left alone every night, and like not every night,
[39:01] Speaker 1: a lot of nights during the week, and I just
[39:05] Speaker 1: I felt so alone in the world, and I had
[39:07] Speaker 1: no one else and I didn't have siblings, and I
[39:11] Speaker 1: would sit there and just wish I wasn't alone. But
[39:14] Speaker 1: I felt like I deserved to be alone, and I
[39:16] Speaker 1: didn't know why. And she said, could you invite God
[39:21] Speaker 1: to go back and sit on that chair with you?
[39:24] Speaker 1: And I was like, no way, There is no way,
[39:28] Speaker 1: I am if God was sitting on that chair with me,
[39:31] Speaker 1: why would I have ever experienced any of this in
[39:34] Speaker 1: the first place, Like, there's no way I can do that.
[39:37] Speaker 1: And to make a long story short, And I write
[39:40] Speaker 1: about this in the book Jamie, but probably some time
[39:43] Speaker 1: later after really like pursuing and learning more about Jesus
[39:49] Speaker 1: and seeing how beautifull he is and gracious and kind,
[39:53] Speaker 1: and the Jesus who wept with Mary and Martha, and
[39:58] Speaker 1: you think about Mary and Martha, like they called Jesus
[40:01] Speaker 1: to come and save their brother, and he doesn't come
[40:04] Speaker 1: in time, and he purposely didn't come, and then he
[40:09] Speaker 1: shows up and two days later and their brothers died,
[40:12] Speaker 1: and they both with this raw honesty, they each run
[40:15] Speaker 1: out separately to Jesus and they say, if you had
[40:18] Speaker 1: been here, our brother would be alive. And if you
[40:22] Speaker 1: had been here, my brother would be alive. And they
[40:26] Speaker 1: had these if you hads with God, and I think
[40:28] Speaker 1: we all do. We have these things and I had those.
[40:31] Speaker 1: My biggest hang up with believing there was a God
[40:33] Speaker 1: was where were you when I needed you? Why didn't
[40:36] Speaker 1: you stop the abuse? Why didn't you protect me? Why
[40:38] Speaker 1: didn't you give me a different story? Why didn't have
[40:39] Speaker 1: a different moment dad that I had? Why didn't have
[40:42] Speaker 1: to go through all this by myself? Where were you?
[40:46] Speaker 1: And what I experienced in that therapist's office eventually was
[40:52] Speaker 1: that Jesus can handle all of those things. He can
[40:56] Speaker 1: handle all our if you hads, he can handle me
[40:59] Speaker 1: saying you were a no show, just like my dad.
[41:02] Speaker 1: I don't feel like you showed up for me. I
[41:04] Speaker 1: don't feel like you were there for me. Where were you?
[41:06] Speaker 1: Why weren't you there for me? And I had this,
[41:10] Speaker 1: and this is prayer. This is prayer. I finally invited
[41:15] Speaker 1: him to come sit on the chair with me, and
[41:19] Speaker 1: I had this moment that just completely like Jesus came
[41:24] Speaker 1: and he sat on that chair with me, and he
[41:26] Speaker 1: held me and he weeped with me, and he said,
[41:30] Speaker 1: you were never supposed to experience this hurt. You were never.
[41:35] Speaker 1: You were never intended to experience being alone and feeling
[41:38] Speaker 1: like you deserved me alone. You were you were never.
[41:41] Speaker 1: You were never supposed to to feel this way. But
[41:45] Speaker 1: wounded people wounded you. And he was weeping too, and
[41:49] Speaker 1: he held me on that chair, and I had this
[41:51] Speaker 1: experience where it's like he started stitching me up and
[41:56] Speaker 1: I was his daughter and he was my dad and
[41:59] Speaker 1: it was a beautifu experience. And so I think prayer
[42:03] Speaker 1: can look like that. But prayer can also look like
[42:06] Speaker 1: you know, me on my couch even yesterday in my
[42:11] Speaker 1: journal and just saying, Lord, here are things that are
[42:15] Speaker 1: hurting my heart right now, and I just lift those
[42:18] Speaker 1: things off and I say, I'm handing these to you,
[42:21] Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that you're in them, and that you
[42:24] Speaker 1: can be with these people and be with these hard circumstances,
[42:27] Speaker 1: and so I think prayer can look all sorts of
[42:30] Speaker 1: different ways, and I love talking about what I can
[42:34] Speaker 1: look like. But inviting God into your your if you hats,
[42:40] Speaker 1: inviting God into the things that are hurting your heart,
[42:45] Speaker 1: making a list of all the people that you love
[42:48] Speaker 1: who are hurting right now and handing them to God.
[42:52] Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things that prayer is really
[42:55] Speaker 1: just just an invitation to let God come into those
[43:00] Speaker 1: hurting places, and He's healing, just his presence is healing.
[43:05] Speaker 2: I love that you give us such a great spectrum
[43:09] Speaker 2: of how prayer can look in different seasons, in different situations.
[43:14] Speaker 2: But yeah, what a beautiful what a beautiful picture of
[43:18] Speaker 2: I have never heard that Lazarus story spoken of in
[43:21] Speaker 2: the you know, in the context of you should if
[43:25] Speaker 2: you had been here, then it wouldn't have happened, or
[43:29] Speaker 2: this wouldn't have been this way in the context of
[43:32] Speaker 2: things that have happened to us in the past. Can
[43:34] Speaker 2: you talk about with prayer during your healing journey and
[43:40] Speaker 2: really just prayer at any point? What is the importance
[43:45] Speaker 2: of prayer in the context of community. I mean, I
[43:50] Speaker 2: think of prayer whenever someone says prayer. For the most part,
[43:53] Speaker 2: I think about my personal prayer time with God, but
[43:57] Speaker 2: the Bible. Just the more I read the Bible, the
[43:59] Speaker 2: more I am just inundated with God saying it was
[44:04] Speaker 2: never meant to be done in a vacuum. This life,
[44:07] Speaker 2: this Christian walk, prayer, everything like it's in a context
[44:11] Speaker 2: of the body of Christ. So what does that mean
[44:14] Speaker 2: to you? And what has that meant to you? And
[44:16] Speaker 2: in your journey having that community?
[44:19] Speaker 1: Oh man, I have so many fun stories, and we
[44:22] Speaker 1: probably don't have all day for me to tell them.
[44:24] Speaker 1: But there's been so many moments where I've heard the
[44:30] Speaker 1: voice of God while praying in community with other people
[44:34] Speaker 1: that shifted my trajectory. I mean, I think about this
[44:38] Speaker 1: whole collide thing wasn't something I was trying to start right,
[44:41] Speaker 1: And I don't know how many years in I was
[44:45] Speaker 1: actually offered a position at a church and I was
[44:50] Speaker 1: gonna They said, you could bring Colyde under our umbrella.
[44:53] Speaker 1: You can get a salary, you can have all the resources,
[44:55] Speaker 1: you can do all you can have all this stuff.
[44:57] Speaker 1: You can have office and health insurance. And at the time,
[45:02] Speaker 1: we didn't have an office and we didn't have a budget,
[45:04] Speaker 1: and we didn't have a staff, and I wasn't getting
[45:06] Speaker 1: paid and I'm working over full time and all this stuff,
[45:09] Speaker 1: and so I invite some of my community. And we
[45:13] Speaker 1: also invited my son, who was probably in middle school,
[45:16] Speaker 1: to come, and we did this sort of I think
[45:20] Speaker 1: it's a Quaker tradition where they come and just ask questions.
[45:25] Speaker 1: They just ask you questions for discerning and you answered
[45:29] Speaker 1: the questions, but they don't give any opinions, and then you.
[45:33] Speaker 2: Pray, okay, so give me. And so is this You're
[45:36] Speaker 2: in a room and this is kind of like this
[45:38] Speaker 2: is a church gathering of.
[45:40] Speaker 1: It's not a church gathering. It's in my living room.
[45:42] Speaker 1: I invite in your living room, okay, people in my
[45:46] Speaker 1: living room if I did my son, because I believe
[45:49] Speaker 1: that God speaks to kids as well, and I think
[45:51] Speaker 1: your kids need to know that they have a spiritual
[45:54] Speaker 1: voice and God can speak to them. And I say
[45:56] Speaker 1: that because we did this whole discerning thing. They asked
[45:58] Speaker 1: me all these fantastic questions and I answer, and then
[46:02] Speaker 1: we go to pray.
[46:03] Speaker 2: So you answer the questions. So they'll ask you a
[46:06] Speaker 2: question to get you to kind of be thinking, and
[46:10] Speaker 2: you answer verbally back to them, is that right?
[46:13] Speaker 1: And then they ask more questions, okay, and more questions,
[46:17] Speaker 1: and then at one point we all prayed. And it
[46:21] Speaker 1: was the prayer of my son that made it so
[46:25] Speaker 1: clear that God was calling me to do something that
[46:29] Speaker 1: didn't make any sense on paper. And the thing God
[46:32] Speaker 1: was calling me to do was to believe that He
[46:34] Speaker 1: was doing something bigger with this collide, thing that I
[46:37] Speaker 1: could imagine, and it wasn't underneath the umbrella of one church,
[46:41] Speaker 1: but that He actually wanted to impact and change so
[46:44] Speaker 1: many lives further beyond even the city I live in
[46:48] Speaker 1: or the county I live in, but beyond. And so
[46:51] Speaker 1: it was going to be actually me having to continue
[46:54] Speaker 1: to trust Him, even if it meant no money, no health, interests,
[47:00] Speaker 1: oh resources, no office, no whatever. But it was through
[47:03] Speaker 1: like this discerning prayer experience. And I look back at
[47:06] Speaker 1: that and go, wow, like, there's nothing wrong with being
[47:09] Speaker 1: a pastor of a church. That's amazing. But God had
[47:11] Speaker 1: an entirely different plan for me that I don't know
[47:16] Speaker 1: that I would have recognized without the discerning community who
[47:20] Speaker 1: gathered around me and prayed. Another example I think of is,
[47:24] Speaker 1: and I'll give this advice because I think this is
[47:26] Speaker 1: advice is cultivate friendships when you are okay. Oh yeah,
[47:32] Speaker 1: so that when you're not okay, those people feel like
[47:37] Speaker 1: they have permission to comments around you when you need
[47:41] Speaker 1: it most. And I had done that, not knowing that's
[47:44] Speaker 1: what I was doing. It cultivated some deep friendships with
[47:48] Speaker 1: some women. And I didn't know all of a sudden,
[47:51] Speaker 1: three women and they're not all close, but I'm close
[47:54] Speaker 1: to all of them. They just are from different pockets
[47:57] Speaker 1: of my life. But so they don't know each other well,
[48:00] Speaker 1: but they know who each other is. My husband did
[48:03] Speaker 1: not think I was okay. At one point in time,
[48:06] Speaker 1: I was struggling, and he called these girlfriends and they
[48:10] Speaker 1: show up on a Saturday morning and I'm on the
[48:12] Speaker 1: couch in pajamas and I'm like, what are you guys
[48:14] Speaker 1: doing here? And they're like, we're worried about you. And
[48:17] Speaker 1: they're like on the sitting on the carpet by the couch,
[48:21] Speaker 1: like they're on the ground, sitting there, not in a
[48:24] Speaker 1: creepy way, but just like close, and they're like, we're
[48:27] Speaker 1: worried about you, and so we came over here today
[48:30] Speaker 1: because we want to pray over you. And I was
[48:35] Speaker 1: like I don't know. I think I was humbled. I
[48:37] Speaker 1: think I was emotional, like I felt like, oh, these
[48:41] Speaker 1: people are taking up their Saturday for me. I'm totally fine,
[48:44] Speaker 1: I'll be fine. But I was also like wow, like
[48:48] Speaker 1: I have those kinds of friends where they get one
[48:52] Speaker 1: call and they're like, we're there, you know what I mean,
[48:55] Speaker 1: And so they prayed over me, and I felt hell
[49:00] Speaker 1: and I felt carried, like okay, like I can make
[49:03] Speaker 1: it through this really hard season. I'm like so loved
[49:06] Speaker 1: and cared for. And sometimes that's what we need to know.
[49:10] Speaker 1: But it's really hard to go finding that or creating
[49:13] Speaker 1: it when you're not okay. Like sow seeds into the
[49:16] Speaker 1: kind of relationships when you have some energy and when
[49:18] Speaker 1: you have the emotional like ability to invest in relationships
[49:23] Speaker 1: so that when you need it, they're there for you.
[49:26] Speaker 2: Wow, that is such good advice. I Alana and I
[49:29] Speaker 2: talk about this in terms of prayer, like, when you
[49:32] Speaker 2: have the mental space and the place in life where
[49:36] Speaker 2: you're feeling pretty solid, cultivate those habits, maybe set up
[49:40] Speaker 2: systems that you can fall back on when you're not okay.
[49:43] Speaker 2: But for friendships, that's beautiful, Like that is so important
[49:47] Speaker 2: because you don't have the energy to, you know, brush
[49:50] Speaker 2: your teeth in the morning. Sometimes when you're not in
[49:52] Speaker 2: a good place much less find people like you need
[49:55] Speaker 2: people that can already have been found, that are already invested.
[50:01] Speaker 2: That is so good.
[50:03] Speaker 1: I mean. The only other thing I would say is
[50:05] Speaker 1: for moms who are listening when you are having a
[50:09] Speaker 1: bad day, when your heart's hurting, when there's something stressful
[50:13] Speaker 1: going on, or when that's true of your kids, don't
[50:16] Speaker 1: pretend like you're fine, don't pretend like you're strong, don't
[50:20] Speaker 1: act like you have it all together, but instead be
[50:23] Speaker 1: real with your kids, like I'm having a hard time
[50:26] Speaker 1: and I need to go to God right now. Will
[50:28] Speaker 1: you pray with me? Or you know, model for your
[50:32] Speaker 1: kids that you go to God when things are hard.
[50:34] Speaker 1: And the reason why I say that is I did that.
[50:36] Speaker 1: I did not raise my kids and hide my pain.
[50:40] Speaker 1: They weren't my therapists. I'm not suggesting that, but I
[50:43] Speaker 1: tried to be very real with them about what is
[50:45] Speaker 1: true real pain. They saw real pain, but they also
[50:48] Speaker 1: saw real healing. And the reason why I bring that
[50:51] Speaker 1: up when it has to do with prayer, is a
[50:54] Speaker 1: week or so ago, I it was the week my
[50:58] Speaker 1: book was releasing. I was to preach three times in
[51:02] Speaker 1: a weekend. And I was already feeling really like a
[51:06] Speaker 1: vulnerable hangover from putting this book out because it has
[51:08] Speaker 1: all these stories that quote unquote, I'm not supposed to
[51:12] Speaker 1: tell raw, hard stories that are being put out in
[51:15] Speaker 1: the world. And I was struggling with that. And then
[51:19] Speaker 1: I had, you know, a very short period of time
[51:21] Speaker 1: to prepare for these three sermons that I had to give.
[51:25] Speaker 1: And I got the day that I had to start
[51:29] Speaker 1: working on those messages, I started getting so sick. I
[51:35] Speaker 1: was got some sort of terrible flu. I was vomiting,
[51:38] Speaker 1: I mean, tmi, I know, diarrhea. I had all things, egges, headaches,
[51:42] Speaker 1: like it was terrible, terrible, terrible, And I thought, Oh
[51:46] Speaker 1: my gosh, Lord, I don't know how I'm gonna do
[51:47] Speaker 1: this assignment you have for me. I'm not well, like
[51:51] Speaker 1: I feel like the enemy's at me, Like I don't
[51:54] Speaker 1: know how I'm going to pull this off. I was
[51:56] Speaker 1: nauseous all the time. And my son, he's twenty three
[51:59] Speaker 1: years old, and he called me on the phone day
[52:03] Speaker 1: two of being sick, three days out from the assignment
[52:06] Speaker 1: where I had just show up and you know, bring
[52:09] Speaker 1: a message to impact lives. And he says, Mom, can
[52:13] Speaker 1: I pray for you? And I said yes, So I'm
[52:16] Speaker 1: on the phone and he says, Jesus, what do you
[52:20] Speaker 1: want mom to hear? And he stayed totally silent, and
[52:24] Speaker 1: I listened, and I was like, wow, you know, Aiden,
[52:29] Speaker 1: I said, you know what God just said to me.
[52:32] Speaker 1: I was supposed to preach on the foot washing and
[52:34] Speaker 1: the cross and on the whole idea of you know,
[52:38] Speaker 1: Philippians too, and Jesus he did not consulder her equality
[52:41] Speaker 1: with God something to be grasped, but he made himself nothing,
[52:44] Speaker 1: emptied himself and died on a cross. I'd been studying
[52:47] Speaker 1: all that and when Jesus, when Aiden said, Jesus, what
[52:52] Speaker 1: do you want Mom to hear? I heard God say,
[52:55] Speaker 1: You're gonna come empty. I'm actually emptying out your entire
[52:58] Speaker 1: body on both ends. You're gonna come You're gonna feel
[53:01] Speaker 1: so weak, You're gonna feel like you have nothing to offer.
[53:04] Speaker 1: You're gonna feel like you have nothing to give. You're
[53:08] Speaker 1: actually going to have to resonate with the very characteristics.
[53:13] Speaker 1: You're going to tell people that I lived in that
[53:17] Speaker 1: moment like it was like, not something I wanted to hear,
[53:20] Speaker 1: but again, prayer and community. My son he knows where
[53:25] Speaker 1: to go when things are hard. He knows where to
[53:27] Speaker 1: go because we did it together as whole childhood and
[53:30] Speaker 1: he prayed over me, and I needed to hear that.
[53:33] Speaker 1: It actually sounds weird, but I got excited even though
[53:36] Speaker 1: I felt terrible that I was going to come empty,
[53:38] Speaker 1: because I knew there was a purpose for it. I
[53:40] Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm gonna come empty, which means your
[53:42] Speaker 1: power is going to show up even though I'm empty,
[53:44] Speaker 1: because you told me this is how it's supposed to go.
[53:46] Speaker 1: You know what I mean. So I just share that
[53:48] Speaker 1: story that happened last week, and I share it Jamie
[53:51] Speaker 1: because the influence that you have as a mom when
[53:56] Speaker 1: it comes to prayer, not in a religious duty, obligatory
[53:59] Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I'm talking about going to God when
[54:02] Speaker 1: things are hard with your kids because where else you
[54:04] Speaker 1: going to go? And then when they're young adults, they
[54:07] Speaker 1: know where to go. Yeah, and that is awesome. That's awesome.
[54:11] Speaker 1: I'm so glad my son knows where to go, and
[54:13] Speaker 1: now he's leading me when I need to go there.
[54:16] Speaker 1: So I thought i'd shared that before we close up.
[54:20] Speaker 2: I'm so glad you did. That's what a great story,
[54:22] Speaker 2: what an amazing story.
[54:24] Speaker 1: I love it.
[54:24] Speaker 2: I love it.
[54:26] Speaker 1: Well.
[54:26] Speaker 2: Can you just tell us a little bit about just
[54:29] Speaker 2: tell us where we can find out more about Collide,
[54:32] Speaker 2: where your ministry, Where we can find out more about
[54:34] Speaker 2: your book, your podcast, and just all of the things
[54:39] Speaker 2: connect with you on social media online.
[54:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So if you want to find out about
[54:44] Speaker 1: my ministry, go to week Collide dot net, or you
[54:47] Speaker 1: can go to my own website page, which is Willowweston
[54:50] Speaker 1: dot com. If you want to come hang out with
[54:52] Speaker 1: me on Instagram and we can share life together there.
[54:56] Speaker 1: I'm on there at Willow and Weston. And as far
[54:58] Speaker 1: as grabbing a book there where books are sold to Amazon,
[55:01] Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble, you know the places.
[55:04] Speaker 2: All the places. Well, thank you so so much for
[55:08] Speaker 2: talking to us and just sharing your stories. And thank
[55:12] Speaker 2: you again just for sharing hard things, because, like you said,
[55:16] Speaker 2: I know it was not easy for you to talk
[55:18] Speaker 2: about and put out to the world a lot of
[55:21] Speaker 2: the things that you've been through, and just to do
[55:24] Speaker 2: that with the knowledge that God redeems it and is
[55:27] Speaker 2: going to bring healing to so many people. Is just
[55:30] Speaker 2: so wonderful. Thank you for doing that.
[55:32] Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on Jamie.
[55:34] Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to close us in prayer. How can
[55:36] Speaker 2: we pray for you today?
[55:37] Speaker 1: Willow? Thank you. I will take prayer every day. How
[55:42] Speaker 1: do I need prayer? I think this is like the
[55:44] Speaker 1: week that this book Collide releases, And yeah, I think
[55:49] Speaker 1: I mentioned it earlier, but it's a little bit. It's
[55:52] Speaker 1: terrifying and exciting. I'm so excited to see how God
[55:56] Speaker 1: could use it to bring healing to hurting people. But
[56:00] Speaker 1: I also feel terrified by putting this stuff out there.
[56:05] Speaker 1: So if you want to pray not only just for
[56:09] Speaker 1: my fear and my heart in that, but also that
[56:12] Speaker 1: God causes this book to get into the hands of
[56:16] Speaker 1: the people who need it, I would love that.
[56:18] Speaker 2: All right, will do well, let's pray. God, thank you
[56:22] Speaker 2: so much for a Willow. Thank you for her story
[56:25] Speaker 2: and for meeting her in it, and for being there
[56:29] Speaker 2: even in the hardest of hard times when she didn't
[56:31] Speaker 2: know you were there. God, thank you for being there.
[56:34] Speaker 2: Thank you for opening doors for her to use the
[56:39] Speaker 2: things the enemy intended for evil to bring about healing
[56:43] Speaker 2: and hope and peace and good and glory for you
[56:47] Speaker 2: and your kingdom. We just pray that you would be
[56:50] Speaker 2: with her as this book goes out into the world,
[56:53] Speaker 2: and that you would just surround her with protection from
[56:57] Speaker 2: any lies, from the enemy, from anything except the absolute
[57:03] Speaker 2: certainty and joy and knowledge that you are in this book,
[57:08] Speaker 2: that you are using it to reach more people than
[57:11] Speaker 2: she ever could have imagined, and that you are pleased
[57:16] Speaker 2: with her, and that you are just absolutely in this
[57:22] Speaker 2: and working through this book. We just pray that you
[57:25] Speaker 2: would open doors that weren't open before for the book
[57:28] Speaker 2: to reach the people that need it the most. We
[57:31] Speaker 2: pray that healing and salvation would come through the pages
[57:36] Speaker 2: of this book. We pray that there would be no
[57:38] Speaker 2: barrier for it reaching the people you've intended it for
[57:41] Speaker 2: it to reach. And we just thank you so much
[57:44] Speaker 2: for being a redeemer, for being a God who uses
[57:48] Speaker 2: each one of us, and just for Willow's testimony of
[57:51] Speaker 2: how you bring us to the point of emptiness when
[57:56] Speaker 2: we get to the end of ourselves, that's when you
[58:00] Speaker 2: and your power is made perfect in that weakness. And
[58:03] Speaker 2: we praise you God. We praise you that there's nothing
[58:06] Speaker 2: the enemy can take from us. There's nothing this world
[58:09] Speaker 2: can do to us that will keep you from working
[58:13] Speaker 2: through us and in us. We just pray that we
[58:16] Speaker 2: would be open to it and receptive to it, and
[58:18] Speaker 2: that through us we would be able to not only
[58:21] Speaker 2: receive your healing, but extend it to the world. Thank
[58:25] Speaker 2: you so much, and thank you for Willow's message today
[58:29] Speaker 2: in Jesus name, Amen.
[58:30] Speaker 1: Amen, Thank you Jamie.
[58:36] Speaker 2: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
[58:38] Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
[58:41] Speaker 2: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
[58:44] Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in
[58:47] Speaker 2: their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
[58:51] Speaker 2: and so much more. That's lifeaudio dot com.

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