# Building a quantum powerhouse in the US Midwest

An episode of [Physics World Weekly Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1400686733), 14 Aug 2025, 48 min.

Audio: https://media.blubrry.com/physicsworldweeklypodcast/content.blubrry.com/physicsworldweeklypodcast/PWWeekly14Aug2025IllinoisQuantum.mp3

Our podcast guests are Preeti Chalsani and David Awschalom

## Transcript

[0:08] Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly
[0:11] podcast.
[0:12] I'm Hamish Johnston.
[0:14] In this episode,
[0:15] I'm very pleased to be in conversation
[0:18] with two
[0:19] leading lights of the quantum science and technology
[0:23] community
[0:24] in The US state of Illinois.
[0:27] They are Priti Chalsani
[0:29] and David Auchalam.
[0:31] That interview is coming up after this message
[0:35] from American Elements.
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[1:57] Priti and David, welcome to the podcast.
[2:01] Hi, Himesh. Thanks for having us. Hamish, likewise.
[2:04] Great to be here. So, Preeti, you're chief
[2:07] quantum officer at Intersect
[2:10] Illinois.
[2:11] Can you tell us, a bit about the
[2:13] organization
[2:14] and your role within it?
[2:16] Sure. Happy to.
[2:18] So IntraSC Illinois is a nonprofit
[2:21] organization,
[2:22] a public private partnership.
[2:25] We are essentially the state's business and economic
[2:28] development arm
[2:30] for statewide
[2:31] business and economic development. So
[2:34] in Illinois, like most other states, cities
[2:37] might have their own business development and economic
[2:39] development arms. Intersect Illinois focuses on the state
[2:43] of Illinois.
[2:44] Our mission is to bring growth to Illinois,
[2:47] so in the form of jobs,
[2:50] companies,
[2:51] investments,
[2:53] and also sort of doing what it takes
[2:57] to,
[2:58] ensure that that happens. So maybe we,
[3:02] also,
[3:03] get involved in infrastructure development
[3:05] that will help towards job creation or business
[3:08] creation.
[3:10] And then when we also,
[3:13] work
[3:13] very closely with companies or entities that are
[3:17] looking to
[3:18] grow or expand in Illinois or who are
[3:21] looking to come to Illinois
[3:23] to help make,
[3:24] you know, the necessary connections for them, whether
[3:27] they need connections to government organizations or professional
[3:30] services
[3:32] or certainly, especially in the industry, work in
[3:34] connections to,
[3:36] to
[3:37] researchers or universities
[3:39] and talent. And so we work very closely
[3:42] with
[3:43] other organizations
[3:44] throughout the state, including,
[3:47] the Chicago Quantum Exchange,
[3:49] or research organizations,
[3:51] other companies, etcetera.
[3:54] And
[3:55] my role was created very recently.
[3:58] I am the inaugural chief quantum officer for
[4:01] Illinois.
[4:02] And, really, what it is is a testament
[4:04] to the state's
[4:06] focus on this industry.
[4:09] Our governor,
[4:11] as many of you may know already, is
[4:15] really,
[4:16] he has,
[4:19] he has an interest in this,
[4:23] industry
[4:24] that comes from many different
[4:27] motivations.
[4:28] One being Illinois has been at the forefront
[4:31] of, you know, innovations in science and technology
[4:34] for many decades now, thanks to our great,
[4:38] educational research institutions.
[4:41] But
[4:41] in the past, a lot of the
[4:44] economic development
[4:46] from those innovations
[4:48] happens outside of Illinois.
[4:51] And there's a real desire to change that
[4:53] narrative.
[4:55] And then I think Illinois has been at
[4:57] the forefront of quantum science and technology, and
[5:00] you'll hear more from that more from David
[5:03] on that, I'm sure.
[5:04] And so it's trying to get ahead of
[5:07] this and be like, this is great. What
[5:09] can we do to ensure
[5:11] that the science and this technology continues to
[5:14] develop,
[5:15] and it continues to develop locally?
[5:18] So the idea behind creating my role is
[5:20] to have someone who's focused on this
[5:23] and not doing this as part of 18
[5:26] other things that they're,
[5:27] focused on.
[5:29] Oh, that's great. That's really interesting. I have
[5:31] to say, when when I heard that Illinois
[5:34] has a chief quantum officer,
[5:37] I thought we we've definitely got to get
[5:39] that person on the podcast because it sounds
[5:42] like it sounds like such a fantastic job.
[5:46] You know, not to say, David, that your
[5:47] job isn't fantastic at all. And, you're you're
[5:50] the director of the Chicago
[5:53] Quantum Exchange,
[5:55] which is one of the largest quantum consortiums
[5:58] in The US. Can can you tell us
[6:00] a bit about that,
[6:01] organization
[6:02] and your role within it?
[6:05] No. Thanks. Of course. I'd be happy to,
[6:06] and I'm glad to know I'm not entirely
[6:08] useless. So I I appreciate the introduction.
[6:10] So,
[6:11] yeah, as you mentioned, the Chicago Quantum Exchange
[6:14] or the CQE as we call it, it's
[6:17] a regional hub that spans Illinois, Wisconsin,
[6:20] and Indiana,
[6:22] and the intent really is to advance the
[6:24] science and engineering of quantum information
[6:27] to prepare the future quantum workforce
[6:29] and help drive the quantum economy.
[6:32] And one of the things we do is
[6:33] this is done in very tight collaboration with
[6:35] leading universities,
[6:37] two national laboratories,
[6:39] and more than 50 industry partners
[6:41] that we've organized in the last decade here.
[6:44] And with these partners, the CQE has had,
[6:47] I think, relatively broad impacts in this space.
[6:49] We've
[6:50] we've launched more than a 100 joint research
[6:52] projects with companies. We provided
[6:55] some of the first quantum experiences for our
[6:57] students,
[6:59] joint industry postdocs with companies like IBM and
[7:02] others,
[7:03] online professional courses
[7:05] that help current
[7:07] scientists and engineers in industry pivot
[7:10] from traditional technologies into quantum.
[7:12] And we lead the commercialization and workforce developments
[7:15] in this region spanning the three different states.
[7:18] I should also mention one thing that we
[7:20] did early on with Preeti, who used to
[7:22] be actually with the CQE before Yes. She
[7:25] went to the state,
[7:27] which was we co launched Duality, which is
[7:29] the first quantum startup accelerator
[7:32] in the country.
[7:33] And it supports that over two dozen quantum
[7:36] companies that have grown in this region. So
[7:38] I I think these deep cross sector partnerships
[7:41] that are growing in this ecosystem has sort
[7:43] of set the stage of what we've been
[7:44] seeing here in the last several years.
[7:47] For example, the US Department of Commerce has
[7:49] listed
[7:50] us as one of two national quantum tech
[7:52] hubs for quantum technologies.
[7:55] Let us bring in companies, like EeroQ and
[7:57] Cy Quantum into the region. And as Preeti
[7:59] will probably talk about later, it's led to
[8:01] the development working with the governor of the
[8:03] Illinois Quantum and Microelectronics
[8:05] Park.
[8:06] So we did launch this in 02/2017.
[8:09] And in terms of my own role, as
[8:10] you mentioned, I'm very lucky to serve as
[8:12] the inaugural director
[8:13] where my intent is to coordinate some of
[8:15] these activities, identify
[8:17] some of the most promising opportunities
[8:19] in science and technology,
[8:21] and to work with people like Priti and
[8:23] her organization
[8:24] to make this region grow as efficiently as
[8:26] possible.
[8:27] So I I guess, you know, in the
[8:28] end, we've convened academic
[8:30] and industry and government leaders.
[8:32] We have yearly
[8:34] summits here in the Midwest. It's a once
[8:36] a year big program called the Quantum Summit.
[8:39] Actually, the next one is this November,
[8:41] and we'll hear from people like Tara Shimato,
[8:43] who's the CEO of Toshiba,
[8:45] Sila Mertzbacher, who's the executive director of the
[8:48] US Quantum Economic Development Consortium.
[8:52] So that's what we do here.
[8:54] Oh, that's great. And I I should point
[8:56] out that Celia Mertzbacher has also been on
[8:58] the, the Physics World Weekly podcast.
[9:01] And, I'll I'll I'll I'll put a link
[9:03] to that,
[9:05] to that interview in the notes for this
[9:07] episode.
[9:08] I wanted to add something else to what
[9:10] David mentioned and what you said.
[9:13] CQE is certainly one of the largest
[9:16] consortia,
[9:17] in quantum. But, also,
[9:19] even more importantly, maybe it's one of the
[9:22] first ones, and
[9:24] that has played a big role in
[9:28] creating momentum in our ecosystem.
[9:31] So,
[9:32] I wanna
[9:33] make sure that we understand. It's also one
[9:35] of the earliest.
[9:37] Well, thanks, Priti.
[9:38] David, can you can you give us a
[9:40] flavor of some of the the quantum science
[9:43] and technology
[9:45] that that's being done in Illinois at the
[9:48] moment? I know that that you're an active
[9:50] researcher
[9:51] in that field. Could you may maybe start
[9:54] with some of the work that you're involved
[9:55] in and then branch out?
[9:58] Yeah. It's a very thing. That's a very
[10:00] dangerous thing to ask a physicist to talk
[10:02] about their research.
[10:03] It's okay. It's a physics world podcast. I
[10:05] know. But there'll be no there'll be no
[10:07] time left for Preeti. So maybe I can
[10:09] take I could I could step back a
[10:10] little bit and revisit this a little bit
[10:12] later, in our discussion. But, you know, I
[10:15] think one of the things that we did,
[10:16] as Preeti mentioned, we started this very early.
[10:20] So the quantum science and technology efforts here
[10:22] in Illinois are very broad and very deep,
[10:25] and the intent when we built this was
[10:27] to span basic research like my own work,
[10:30] to the industrial development
[10:32] and applications, and do this all together. And
[10:35] I think one of the unique ways that
[10:36] Illinois approached this area
[10:38] is to develop, first of all, outstanding basic
[10:41] research programs,
[10:42] but also to engage industry for collaborative research
[10:45] at the very beginning.
[10:47] So this latter point, I think, is really
[10:49] important for people to appreciate.
[10:51] The history of microelectronics
[10:53] taught us a pretty important lesson in collaborating
[10:55] with industry,
[10:56] which is
[10:58] do it at the beginning.
[10:59] Don't wait for research results to appear. Wait
[11:02] a decade later.
[11:04] Try and sort out if it might or
[11:05] might not be relevant to technology and then
[11:07] think about transition.
[11:09] What we've learned is that this type of
[11:11] engine works much more efficiently
[11:13] if you do it together cooperatively at the
[11:16] very beginning.
[11:17] And to be clear, it doesn't mean we're
[11:19] doing work at service to industry.
[11:21] It means that industry is watching what's going
[11:23] on, you know, in house and saying, oh,
[11:26] you know what that thing you just saw
[11:28] in your lab? This could be really important
[11:30] to us.
[11:31] So this style enabled us to prepare for
[11:33] unexpected opportunities in what's clearly a rapidly changing
[11:36] area.
[11:38] So to your point, we focused on quantum
[11:40] sensing,
[11:41] quantum communication,
[11:43] quantum computing, and algorithm development.
[11:46] So the idea was not to pick an
[11:48] early winner because we think that's impossible for
[11:51] a new field,
[11:52] but to invest broadly like a type of
[11:54] quantum mutual fund. You may not know exactly
[11:57] what's going to peak, so
[11:59] you you invest.
[12:01] And we appreciate also that in quantum science,
[12:04] all of these areas are actually connected and
[12:06] ultimately will be physically entangled.
[12:09] So it's impossible to predict the high impact
[12:11] areas of a new field, and we thought
[12:13] this was quite an effective strategy for the
[12:15] long game.
[12:17] So I can tell you to a point
[12:19] you mentioned a little earlier. I this made
[12:20] us appreciate early on how important it is
[12:23] to develop a quantum ready workforce
[12:26] in order to succeed.
[12:28] And this had to be integrated as well
[12:30] because without a quantum ready workforce,
[12:33] none of this will happen.
[12:34] So that's quite integrated.
[12:36] And this type of tight connection has actually
[12:39] led to some remarkable acceleration of homegrown startups
[12:43] where students doing the basic research
[12:45] have picked bits of what they've done
[12:47] and have developed an appreciation of where it
[12:49] may lead to an application as part of
[12:51] their training. That's led to startups like MemQ
[12:54] and Inflexion and Qubrade. There are lots of
[12:56] others here.
[12:57] So while I'm happy a little later to
[12:59] talk about some of our own developments, which
[13:01] will be great for us to chat about,
[13:03] I think this broad perspective in how science
[13:06] has spun out into industry is really important
[13:09] and really important for this field.
[13:12] I see. And, Preeti, you've spent a a
[13:15] good chunk of your career working at the
[13:17] interface between
[13:19] academic science,
[13:21] industry,
[13:22] and government.
[13:23] Can you what what what is the plan,
[13:26] in Illinois to take these
[13:28] breakthroughs that are that are being done in
[13:31] David and others' labs
[13:34] and and turn them into in into business
[13:37] opportunities?
[13:39] Yeah. It's a great question, and I'm so
[13:42] glad,
[13:42] David focuses
[13:44] on that aspect
[13:46] in addition to the
[13:48] to the scientific achievements that we have,
[13:51] created in this,
[13:53] in our region.
[13:55] I think
[13:57] for any type of technological
[14:00] advancements,
[14:02] it's,
[14:03] you know, it's a marathon. It's not a
[14:04] sprint. It requires a lot of different types
[14:07] of resources,
[14:09] funding,
[14:09] infrastructure,
[14:11] talent, and workforce, which David mentioned,
[14:15] and partnerships
[14:16] both at the, you know, the early end
[14:20] of the spectrum, partnerships with r and d
[14:22] organizations
[14:24] to ensure,
[14:26] that cutting edge advancements and research are connected
[14:30] to the, to the technology
[14:32] as well as,
[14:35] strategic partnerships at the other end,
[14:38] connecting with,
[14:39] you know, corporations
[14:41] who might help with go to market strategy
[14:44] or with the technology development.
[14:46] So Illinois,
[14:48] and all of our organizations are taking a
[14:50] really holistic approach and making sure that we
[14:53] understand what it takes
[14:56] to, to support these types of startups and,
[15:00] and work on developing each of those aspects.
[15:03] So for example, the state has created
[15:06] a whole,
[15:07] suite of incentives
[15:08] that will support startups
[15:11] and specifically startups which are pre revenue. Right?
[15:14] So,
[15:15] income tax credits don't really mean much when
[15:18] you're not making profits.
[15:20] So things like payroll withholding, things like venture
[15:24] investments for early stage startups.
[15:27] The state has created these as a way
[15:29] of catalyzing investments from the private sector.
[15:33] We're also,
[15:34] supporting
[15:35] and creating infrastructure, things like the Illinois Quantum
[15:38] and Microelectronics
[15:39] Spark,
[15:41] you know, in order to build on all
[15:44] of the infrastructure
[15:45] development at universities and innovation hubs.
[15:49] We're,
[15:51] really
[15:52] looking to support
[15:54] and,
[15:55] working with other organizations
[15:57] to create
[15:58] innovative workforce development programs to be able to
[16:02] keep these, startups and, technology companies,
[16:07] you know, supplied with
[16:09] this real,
[16:12] you know, really
[16:13] scarce resource.
[16:15] And then, overall, like, you know, I think
[16:17] what's really important is to create density in
[16:20] an ecosystem.
[16:21] So we're,
[16:22] again, working with everybody across the region and
[16:25] the, the ecosystem to make sure that we're,
[16:29] creating a support network,
[16:31] where
[16:32] natural collisions between
[16:34] large companies, small companies, researchers,
[16:37] investors,
[16:39] the public happens naturally,
[16:42] and we there's a real sense of an
[16:44] ecosystem here.
[16:48] I see. Had
[16:50] it's funny. You you mentioned collisions. Of course,
[16:53] Illinois is blessed with two national labs,
[16:57] Fermilab, which, of course, is famous for colliding
[17:00] particles,
[17:01] and Argonne
[17:03] National Lab,
[17:04] as well as several leading
[17:06] universities.
[17:07] So, I mean, it almost seems like
[17:10] the region or the state
[17:12] should have emerged
[17:13] naturally
[17:14] as a hub
[17:16] of quantum
[17:17] innovation.
[17:18] But was there also a lot of hard
[17:20] work,
[17:21] you know, from you, Preeti and David
[17:25] in in making,
[17:27] Illinois a quantum
[17:29] a quantum leader?
[17:34] I will take the first shot at this
[17:36] with a very simple answer saying, yes. A
[17:38] lot of work. Right? Like, just so, yes,
[17:41] we have these foundational
[17:43] assets,
[17:44] national labs,
[17:47] really amazing,
[17:49] universities.
[17:51] But
[17:52] just having those
[17:54] doesn't do a whole lot on its own.
[17:56] You need catalysts
[17:58] like the Chicago Quantum Exchange, like
[18:01] the work that was done by some of
[18:04] the early leaders, including David, in seeing what
[18:07] was possible
[18:09] in creating a space where we could think
[18:11] more collectively
[18:13] about
[18:13] how we could support these large,
[18:17] collaborative,
[18:18] partnerships, collaborative, you
[18:21] know, organizations,
[18:23] and how we could build support from the
[18:26] state, from the federal government,
[18:28] from the private sector
[18:30] to make it into something bigger.
[18:32] And that's something, I think, that is unique
[18:35] to our ecosystem. So,
[18:37] California has a number of amazing institutions,
[18:41] but you don't have an ecosystem for quantum
[18:44] the way you do here, and that's what's
[18:45] missing, the catalysts
[18:47] and, really, the glue that binds everything together.
[18:51] But I'll I'll also make sure that David,
[18:55] I know he has a lot to say
[18:56] on this, that Halo.
[18:58] Well, I I think Preeti made this, really
[19:01] nicely
[19:02] stated. I mean, it I agree. It was
[19:04] a lot of hard work, and it's still
[19:06] a lot of hard work
[19:07] taking different visions,
[19:09] coalescing them,
[19:11] and we can trace it back to more
[19:12] than a dozen years here and, honestly, to
[19:14] a series of pretty bold decisions by the
[19:16] University of Chicago.
[19:18] And I say that not not just because
[19:20] I'm here now, but because they were willing
[19:22] to be a pioneer
[19:24] Yeah. To invest in this nascent field in
[19:26] really big ways well before it became obvious
[19:30] that things were moving the way they are
[19:32] today.
[19:33] So you're right, Hamish. The region was already
[19:36] home to world leading quantum scientists and institutions,
[19:39] but
[19:41] with some discussion, the University of Chicago saw
[19:43] a genuine opportunity to make our region the
[19:45] national hub for quantum technology,
[19:47] and very few others were thinking this way
[19:49] in 02/2012.
[19:51] It made these investments both risky
[19:53] and remarkably visionary.
[19:55] So I I like to joke that I'm
[19:57] very good at spending other people's money.
[20:00] The making money can be more of a
[20:02] challenge,
[20:03] but I generally admire the university, Billy, being
[20:06] willing to take this remarkable risk. And,
[20:11] you know, please understand, this was a serious
[20:13] financial investment,
[20:15] to make at a time
[20:17] where it wasn't obvious how this would go.
[20:18] And I think the Midwest attitude of thinking
[20:21] big, you know, the famous quote, no small
[20:23] ideas,
[20:24] in the Midwest was really a driver here.
[20:27] So, I mean, for example, the university through
[20:29] the Pritzker School of Molecular Engineering,
[20:32] which was built,
[20:34] at the same time, created the first PhD
[20:36] program in the nation for quantum science engineering.
[20:39] It built the first school of molecular engineering,
[20:42] the Pritzker School of Molecular Engineering,
[20:44] and one of the four cornerstones of that
[20:46] was quantum engineering.
[20:48] We talked about the CQE,
[20:50] and
[20:51] now now we're hundreds of industry projects and
[20:54] the startup accelerators and, you know, student projects,
[21:00] things have gone
[21:01] better than we thought. And in to Preeti's
[21:04] point,
[21:05] the governor of Illinois has been an extraordinary
[21:08] supporter
[21:08] and champion of this effort, an ambassador globally
[21:11] even
[21:12] of speaking to companies around the world to
[21:14] bring them here.
[21:16] He's helped us understand the potential of this
[21:19] field in ways I certainly didn't understand. I
[21:21] honestly I never thought in my life I
[21:23] would spend time with the governor,
[21:25] as a physicist,
[21:26] and we've learned a lot from him.
[21:29] And this partnership, I think, is quite unique
[21:31] to this part of the country.
[21:34] And, Preeti, I wanted to ask you about
[21:37] the Illinois
[21:38] Quantum and Microelectronics
[21:40] Park, which is currently being built on
[21:44] Lake Michigan,
[21:45] sort of right at the Southern edge of
[21:47] Chicago, I suppose, in an in an area
[21:50] that maybe used to be very
[21:53] industrial
[21:54] but, is not
[21:56] that,
[21:57] industrial
[21:58] anymore.
[22:00] Can you tell us a bit about the
[22:02] park? What,
[22:04] what companies and facilities
[22:06] will it host? And, ultimately, how many people
[22:08] will work there?
[22:11] Sure. Happy to.
[22:13] Yeah. So the Illinois Quantum and Microelectronics
[22:16] Park is the latest
[22:18] and biggest
[22:19] in a series of investments
[22:22] dating back to 2012, as David mentioned.
[22:26] And, really, it's a result
[22:28] of all of the work that happened before
[22:31] seeing the success our region has had in
[22:35] building up this kind of juggernaut
[22:38] of quantum science and technology happening here. The
[22:41] real,
[22:42] the really natural next step is how do
[22:44] we support this
[22:46] so that we can continue to make these
[22:48] technology advancements and,
[22:51] build
[22:52] economic value, build businesses
[22:54] from these techno technological
[22:56] advancements right here. So the, Illinois Quantum and
[22:59] Microelectronics
[23:01] Park is basically,
[23:03] a tech park, a very large tech park
[23:06] to support scale up further advancements and commercialization
[23:11] of quantum and adjacent technologies that you need
[23:14] for the development of quantum technologies.
[23:17] And as you mentioned, yeah, it's,
[23:19] it's
[23:21] in,
[23:22] right,
[23:24] on Lake Michigan
[23:26] in on a site that used to be
[23:28] a steel factory, US Steel Works,
[23:31] which itself is, I think, very symbolic, like,
[23:34] building this new,
[23:36] building a site for this new industry on
[23:39] a
[23:39] site that used to be a hub for
[23:42] the old industry.
[23:43] And what I've learned is that much of
[23:45] the steel that was produced there went into
[23:48] building New York City and Chicago,
[23:51] you know, all of the amazing architecture that
[23:53] we're familiar with.
[23:55] I myself
[23:56] grew up in what's called a steel city
[23:58] in India, so it's very
[24:00] cool for me to think about working in
[24:02] this site that,
[24:04] heralds new technology.
[24:07] It's a 130
[24:08] acres.
[24:10] And, essentially,
[24:12] what it is is that the state is
[24:14] investing in infrastructure
[24:16] that can be leveraged
[24:18] by companies
[24:20] to do what they do best, which is
[24:22] advancing technologies. So,
[24:24] one of the first companies that,
[24:27] choose chose to locate there is PsiQuantum,
[24:30] which, as you know, is a quantum computing
[24:33] company,
[24:34] based in Silicon Valley.
[24:36] They were looking to expand so that they
[24:39] could build their next generation
[24:41] fault tolerant,
[24:42] photonic quantum computer.
[24:44] And,
[24:46] after
[24:47] a very long
[24:48] eighteen month search,
[24:50] settled on this location as being the place
[24:53] where they could
[24:55] really
[24:56] have access to everything they needed, including talent
[24:59] and ecosystem
[25:00] support to do what they're doing, which is
[25:02] not an easy thing to do.
[25:05] Since then, we've also announced a partnership with
[25:08] IBM, who will also host their next generation
[25:11] quantum computer on the park
[25:13] and build a team of,
[25:16] 50,
[25:17] algorithm specialists.
[25:19] We've announced,
[25:21] Duraq, which is an Australian quantum computing company,
[25:25] and there's several others in the works.
[25:27] What the park will have is
[25:31] infrastructure
[25:32] including
[25:33] access to
[25:34] equipment, things like very expensive, complicated,
[25:38] specialized equipment, like dilution refrigerators,
[25:40] control electronics
[25:42] that will
[25:44] that that are really necessary to make advancements
[25:47] in these fields, but can be a big
[25:49] barrier in terms of both the capital needed
[25:51] and the time needed
[25:53] to,
[25:54] kind of set up equipment like that. So
[25:56] the idea is providing access. We're building what
[25:59] we call the National Quantum Facility, which will
[26:02] have this equipment
[26:03] available for lease,
[26:06] so that companies can come in and start
[26:08] working immediately.
[26:09] We're also building other things like a facility
[26:12] where suppliers, you know, who are building enabling
[26:16] technologies
[26:17] can locate and manufacture these technologies that can
[26:20] then,
[26:22] they can be colocated
[26:24] with their users
[26:25] again to enable development of new technologies.
[26:29] There is an industrial scale cryo plant, which,
[26:33] again, as we're thinking about scaling some of
[26:35] these quantum computers that need access
[26:38] to cooling and large amounts of cooling, having
[26:41] access to a cryo plant makes that more,
[26:44] cost efficient and energy efficient.
[26:47] And there's a lot of room,
[26:50] for others to build their own facilities, so
[26:52] similar to PsiQuantum.
[26:55] And
[26:56] the advantage would be having access to all
[26:59] of this all of these resources being in
[27:02] this ecosystem
[27:03] with other companies.
[27:05] And, really,
[27:06] the location, it's about a fifteen minute drive
[27:08] from UChicago, and you're embedded
[27:11] right in the heart of the,
[27:13] quantum ecosystem in Illinois.
[27:16] It's it's a really exciting project, and,
[27:19] we are
[27:21] working very hard on building a lot of
[27:24] the infrastructure, but also partnering with other companies,
[27:27] and more announcements
[27:29] will be forthcoming soon.
[27:32] Wow. That that does sound very exciting.
[27:35] Yeah. And And Yeah. It it's
[27:38] based on a, you know, a really historic
[27:40] $500,000,000
[27:42] investment from the state. And, again, this is
[27:44] a like, it's
[27:46] this was the first time a state
[27:49] invested this much
[27:51] in quantum technologies.
[27:53] We're used to the federal government making investments
[27:55] like that, but for a state to do
[27:58] that is really amazing.
[28:02] David, I I wanted to ask you about
[28:04] your move,
[28:05] to Chicago.
[28:07] I think we met about
[28:09] ten years ago,
[28:10] when you were still at the University of
[28:13] California
[28:14] at Santa Barbara.
[28:17] And you've since moved to Chicago where you're
[28:19] the director
[28:20] of the quantum
[28:21] engineering theme at the Pritzker School for Molecular
[28:25] Engineering.
[28:26] Why did you make the move, and can
[28:29] you give us a flavor
[28:30] of what your current research interests are?
[28:35] No. Thanks for the thanks for the question.
[28:37] Well, to be clear, it wasn't the weather
[28:40] that drove this move,
[28:42] but,
[28:43] I I know Preeti has a lot to
[28:44] say about that. But at at that time,
[28:48] there was a president, president Bob Zimmer, a
[28:50] mathematician at the University of Chicago,
[28:52] who was keen on building the first
[28:55] engineering and applied science school for this university.
[28:59] And they decided that time to take a
[29:00] risk on building thematic areas. Very different design
[29:04] for education, not departments.
[29:06] But could you pick a few important
[29:09] problems for society
[29:11] and assemble people around them?
[29:13] And one of the areas that I proposed
[29:15] to them was quantum science and engineering as
[29:17] part of creating this endeavor. And then as
[29:19] I said earlier it's important to recognize this
[29:20] was in 2012.
[29:23] So as I mentioned it was pretty bold
[29:25] for them to do this.
[29:27] To be clear, it meant building state of
[29:28] the art labs, hiring over a dozen new
[29:30] faculty in addition to people in related areas,
[29:35] and consider
[29:37] very broad ways of building a school and
[29:41] university, including, by the way, one of the
[29:42] themes that integrates the arts and sciences,
[29:45] which turns out to be particularly important in
[29:46] our current times.
[29:48] So they also appreciated the concept that universities
[29:51] couldn't do some of this alone,
[29:53] and that success would depend on thinking regionally,
[29:56] strategically with international partners, companies as we talked
[29:59] about.
[30:00] And so they embraced all of this, and
[30:02] that that's why I moved here, frankly. It
[30:03] was a remarkably
[30:05] exciting endeavor to build what turned out to
[30:07] be a globally competitive activity, but in a
[30:10] very different way. It was, honestly, it was
[30:12] an impossible opportunity to resist.
[30:15] In terms of my own research,
[30:17] and I'll try and keep this short, Amish,
[30:19] because this could be a separate podcast.
[30:23] We focus on creating,
[30:25] entangling,
[30:26] and controlling quantum states in matter and particularly,
[30:29] atomically engineered semiconductors
[30:31] and molecules.
[30:33] And I mean, individual electrons and individual nuclei.
[30:36] So at the subatomic level for processing information.
[30:40] And, you know, today our current technology is
[30:42] created from a top down approach where we
[30:44] build nanometer scale of devices from wafers of
[30:47] semiconductors.
[30:49] But in my own group, we're also exploring
[30:50] what I think is a very different approach.
[30:52] Could you build quantum bits for technology from
[30:55] the bottom up
[30:56] using molecular chemistry?
[30:59] And this offers a chance to custom design
[31:03] quantum states that can be assembled into much
[31:05] more complex systems.
[31:07] For example, could you integrate a quantum sensor
[31:09] and communication technology?
[31:12] Could you convert a qubit into a photon
[31:14] to make a flying qubit if you like
[31:16] that could be on a chip or across
[31:18] the country or across the world?
[31:21] And this has been to some pretty exciting
[31:23] new directions. Most recently,
[31:25] a new technique has emerged where we, with
[31:27] collaborations with colleagues here at Chicago, can create
[31:29] quantum bits out of proteins.
[31:32] So it's an interesting idea not to try
[31:34] and force a semiconductor quantum center into a
[31:36] cell, for example,
[31:38] but could you turn a part of a
[31:39] cell into a quantum bit and use that
[31:42] to probe the behavior of a cell,
[31:44] sub cellular medicine in the future using a
[31:47] single
[31:48] atom scale quantum sensor?
[31:50] So that's turned out to work in surprising
[31:52] ways, and it's just an example of things
[31:54] you might not have predicted a few years
[31:55] ago. We wouldn't have predicted this, that now
[31:58] we're moving very quickly.
[32:00] I see.
[32:02] The so so the,
[32:04] these systems that you're studying at the moment,
[32:06] are they are they still some way from
[32:09] being,
[32:11] being used as as practical
[32:13] qubits, you know, in a quantum computer or,
[32:16] let's say, you know, as a quantum sensor?
[32:19] Or are you are you at the point
[32:20] where you can start
[32:22] manipulating them in that way or or connecting
[32:25] them together and entangling them?
[32:28] Well, I think,
[32:29] some of the work is, moving into
[32:32] prototype technologies right now.
[32:34] So,
[32:35] a number of years ago with our theory
[32:36] colleagues, we explored what new semiconductors
[32:39] might host quantum states that no one ever
[32:42] explored.
[32:43] And
[32:44] this theoretical program identified over a dozen materials,
[32:47] and the top of list was a material
[32:49] called silicon carbide.
[32:51] You and your audience may not be quite
[32:53] as familiar with this as silicon, but it's
[32:55] one of the most popular materials on the
[32:57] planet. It's used in LED lighting.
[32:59] It's used essentially silicon that works at high
[33:02] temperature,
[33:03] used in aircraft and satellites, five g technology,
[33:07] electric vehicles.
[33:09] So ironically,
[33:10] the prediction was that you could build qubits
[33:12] off out of commercial wafers in this material,
[33:14] and no one had looked. So we looked,
[33:16] and after a few years, it became clear
[33:18] you could do this. You could buy materials
[33:20] online
[33:22] and use classical
[33:23] manufacturing technologies
[33:25] to build quantum technologies
[33:27] with a commercial material.
[33:29] So we've now been able to demonstrate record
[33:31] long quantum coherences over ten minutes in these
[33:35] materials. They're extraordinarily long,
[33:37] and this work now is transitioned to a
[33:39] number of our industrial partners,
[33:42] for applications and sensing and communication.
[33:44] And
[33:45] tying back to our earlier conversation, that's the
[33:47] fun of working with industry.
[33:49] We can focus on fundamental science, often find
[33:52] big surprises,
[33:54] and then our colleagues can help us identify
[33:56] how one can use that
[33:58] and often hire our students into these companies
[34:01] to use these discoveries to build new technologies.
[34:05] I see. And and, Preeti, here at at
[34:08] Physics World, we're we're always very interested in
[34:10] talking to physicists about their career.
[34:13] And, you know, I think you you've had
[34:15] a very interesting career. You you did a
[34:18] PhD in applied physics at Cornell University, and
[34:21] you've spent more than twenty years
[34:24] working at the intersection of,
[34:27] academia
[34:28] and industry.
[34:30] Can you describe the path that took you
[34:33] to intersect
[34:34] Illinois
[34:35] and perhaps give a few tips to to
[34:37] some, you know, to young physicist listeners who
[34:40] might be interested in such a career?
[34:44] Sure.
[34:46] And as David said, this could be its
[34:48] own podcast. It was certainly not a
[34:51] planned path to where I am, definitely a
[34:54] very nonlinear one, but one that I've enjoyed,
[34:58] you know, along the way a lot.
[35:01] As you said, yes, I did start. I'm
[35:04] a physicist by training. I have a degree,
[35:07] a PhD in applied physics.
[35:10] Incidentally,
[35:11] I I also have an undergrad degree in
[35:13] applied physics with a focus on quantum electronics.
[35:17] This is in the mid nineties,
[35:19] long before I had even thought about quantum
[35:21] computing or anyone had. Wow. So you're a
[35:24] true pioneer as well.
[35:27] Of some kind. Yes. But, I've enjoyed being
[35:31] with the pioneers.
[35:33] You know, I think for me, I really
[35:35] enjoyed the work I was doing and
[35:39] being
[35:41] in this,
[35:42] in this space.
[35:44] You know? I was working in an area
[35:46] called spintronics,
[35:47] which
[35:48] while it involved fundamental
[35:50] science, also had
[35:52] really interesting applications.
[35:54] I like science and technology and all of
[35:56] the,
[35:58] applications,
[36:00] you know, across different industries.
[36:02] But, frankly, I just didn't want to be
[36:04] in a lab anymore, and so I was
[36:06] looking for other things to do
[36:08] with my interests, with my skill sets,
[36:11] and still being
[36:13] within this industry
[36:15] without being in an actual lab. And
[36:20] so things like this don't happen.
[36:24] You know,
[36:25] it it it's not hard to predict or
[36:28] plan this.
[36:29] For me,
[36:30] after I finished my PhD, I was also
[36:32] moving to Canada, which is a new country,
[36:35] and I
[36:36] didn't have established network. So I did a
[36:38] postdoc,
[36:39] which was a more natural step for me
[36:42] while I was thinking of other things.
[36:44] I taught for two years.
[36:46] Again, I really enjoyed it,
[36:49] but I wanted to be more at the
[36:51] cutting edge of things.
[36:52] So I,
[36:54] I worked in intellectual property, which is
[36:57] again, I really enjoyed that because it gave
[37:00] me
[37:01] what I what, for me, it was sort
[37:03] of like the opposite of being in grad
[37:05] school with all of the advantages,
[37:07] but none of the disadvantages
[37:09] as I saw them. I got to work
[37:11] on a number of different projects,
[37:14] unlike in grad school where you work on
[37:16] one project for a very long time.
[37:20] And I got to work with all of
[37:22] the success stories, all of the hard work
[37:24] that happens in research labs and at start
[37:27] ups. I got to see them once they
[37:29] were successful,
[37:30] and it was immensely joyful.
[37:34] And from there, it's sort of a natural
[37:37] step to go in house at some point.
[37:39] So,
[37:41] I had an opportunity
[37:42] right when University of Chicago
[37:45] was expanding
[37:46] like, really expanding their quantum efforts. I had
[37:49] an opportunity
[37:50] to move in house and work in the
[37:52] tech commercialization
[37:53] team
[37:54] at the Polsky Center at University of Chicago.
[37:57] And it was sort of, for me,
[38:00] life coming full circle because I was able
[38:02] to get back to my original roots,
[38:04] in,
[38:05] you know, quantum physics
[38:07] and adjacent sciences and work with the faculty
[38:10] as they were,
[38:13] developing,
[38:14] this area, help like, I worked with David,
[38:18] and his team
[38:19] as they were, you know, filing new patents,
[38:23] launching startups.
[38:26] And then having worked with the CQE, I
[38:28] also then,
[38:29] decided it was really interesting to work within
[38:32] the CQE, and
[38:34] I worked on David's team leading industry partnerships.
[38:38] Again, sort of a natural transition because,
[38:41] it I had worked in industry. I knew
[38:44] how to work with industry.
[38:45] I had worked with researchers. I knew how
[38:47] to work with them, and so it was
[38:49] natural to try work in an area where
[38:51] my job was making those connections.
[38:55] Help launch Duality, the startup accelerator,
[38:58] because, again, I had been working at this
[39:00] intersection
[39:01] of cutting edge technology and commercialization.
[39:06] And,
[39:07] from there, it was, again, a natural step
[39:09] as the state decided that they really wanted
[39:12] to focus on these efforts to try to
[39:14] do that in a more focused way.
[39:17] So I don't know if that answers your
[39:18] question. No. No. No. That's no. No.
[39:21] Lots of very sort of interesting tips there,
[39:24] I think, for,
[39:25] you know, for for for early career people
[39:28] to, you know, sort of set a path.
[39:31] Yeah. I mean, I mean, it does you
[39:32] know, it sounds like you've got the best
[39:34] of both worlds, you know, as you as
[39:37] you say. You get you you're you're still
[39:39] in touch
[39:40] with the physics and the researchers and all
[39:42] the exciting
[39:43] new
[39:45] science that's happening. But on the other hand,
[39:47] you,
[39:48] you also get to see it turned into
[39:52] real useful technologies
[39:54] that improve people's lives.
[39:56] Yeah. And businesses. Right? Like, how do you
[39:58] make it a viable
[40:00] economic effort as well?
[40:04] And I I've got one last question for
[40:06] both of you.
[40:08] May maybe, David, you could you could start.
[40:11] What what does the future hold for quantum
[40:14] science and technology in Illinois? What what are
[40:16] you most excited about? What are you looking
[40:18] forward to?
[40:20] Oh, that's a fantastic question. Although I should
[40:22] say,
[40:23] Preeti, I have to I have to say
[40:25] I'm I'm disturbed that you don't want to
[40:27] be in a lab anymore.
[40:28] So I dream of being in a and
[40:29] I dream of being in a lab full
[40:31] time. So maybe offline we can talk about
[40:33] that.
[40:36] In terms of Illinois, I you know, I
[40:39] think as scientists and engineers,
[40:41] it's quite remarkable that we have an opportunity
[40:44] to make life better for people by bringing
[40:47] jobs and economic security to this region.
[40:51] You know, one of the things we've learned
[40:53] from our colleagues, talking to analysts about what
[40:55] might happen down the line is the analysts
[40:57] predict that, you know, the Illinois, Wisconsin,
[41:00] Indiana region
[41:02] could see as many as 200,000
[41:04] jobs in the quantum space in the next
[41:06] decade.
[41:08] And what's remarkable is the vast majority of
[41:10] these will be open to people without graduate
[41:12] degrees.
[41:14] So what I to your question, what am
[41:16] I most excited about? While there's a lot
[41:18] of science I'm very excited about, I think
[41:21] the impact on society
[41:22] is something that could be extraordinary.
[41:25] At the end of the day, tying a
[41:27] bit to what Preeti was saying, quantum technology
[41:29] has been projected to drive as much as
[41:31] $80,000,000,000
[41:33] in economic development for this region
[41:36] in the next decade. And that's according to
[41:38] analysis by the Boston Consulting Group, not by
[41:40] us.
[41:41] So this is something I'm excited about. In
[41:43] terms of the science,
[41:45] to your point about the future for science
[41:47] and technology in this area,
[41:50] honestly, I think it's boundless.
[41:53] If every day, there are new discoveries from
[41:55] quantum memories to entanglement
[41:57] to improvements in error correction. It's incredible how
[41:59] quickly things are moving.
[42:02] There are growing applications in finance,
[42:04] in medicine, you know, in security and computation,
[42:07] and there are also new opportunities in cosmology,
[42:10] developing new types of telescopes,
[42:13] cosmological sensing. And the truth is,
[42:16] I think at the end of the day
[42:17] with all new endeavors like this, history has
[42:19] taught us that the most exciting impacts are
[42:22] ahead of us.
[42:23] Wait. You know, when the transistor was invented
[42:25] in the fifties,
[42:27] well, before that actually,
[42:29] people wrote down pages of things they thought
[42:32] would impact the world.
[42:33] But you know what they didn't write? No
[42:35] one thought of integrated circuits.
[42:37] The lasers,
[42:39] social media.
[42:40] Right? TikTok.
[42:41] Exactly.
[42:42] Oh, yeah. No. And there are things maybe
[42:44] they should have thought about, but, yes, correct.
[42:47] But the so to your point, I think
[42:49] what I'm most excited about is the road
[42:51] ahead. Right? We're creating a new generation of
[42:54] quantum scientists and engineers that will drive this.
[42:58] It's like driving down a road at a
[42:59] 100 miles an hour in low beams with
[43:01] a lot of fog. We're we're moving very
[43:03] quickly.
[43:04] We don't know exactly where we're going, but
[43:06] we're going very fast.
[43:09] And, Priti, what what excites you the most,
[43:12] about the future
[43:13] of quantum science and technology
[43:16] in Illinois?
[43:19] Yeah. I think,
[43:21] I will agree with everything that David has
[43:24] said and
[43:25] kind of
[43:26] along the same lines. I think,
[43:30] for me, I really think what's exciting is
[43:32] that we're working in this space with a
[43:35] lot of really smart people who are thinking
[43:37] very creatively and working very hard about
[43:44] ways in which this technology
[43:46] can take on new shape and,
[43:49] have new impact.
[43:50] And for me,
[43:53] just the journey itself, the effort itself is
[43:55] really exciting, and I like to be,
[44:00] I like to be in a place where
[44:01] I'm able to help with that. And I
[44:03] honestly,
[44:04] humbly, really don't think we know what will
[44:06] happen. And,
[44:08] and I'm definitely quoting someone here,
[44:10] you know, the this idea that
[44:13] we're almost certainly,
[44:15] overestimating
[44:16] the impact in the short term
[44:19] and very definitely
[44:20] underestimating
[44:21] the impact in the long term.
[44:23] So I'm really curious to see what comes
[44:25] out of this. And in the meanwhile,
[44:28] like, the creativity
[44:29] and the hard work that goes into
[44:32] making these technologies happen. Quantum computers are hard
[44:35] enough, but even building things like
[44:38] detectors and sensors and lasers and cryostats
[44:42] that help enable this,
[44:44] it's it's just really interesting, really hard work,
[44:48] and will lead to impacts in other industries
[44:52] and other sectors that we don't know about.
[44:55] And
[44:56] the opportunity
[44:57] we have here to engage a wide audience
[45:00] and to
[45:02] create new ways of creating,
[45:05] workforce development programs
[45:06] or,
[45:08] technology acceleration programs. It's just fantastic to be
[45:12] able to work in this. And,
[45:15] Well, that's great.
[45:17] That that that's a good place to to
[45:19] stop. Looking forward to the future.
[45:22] David and Preeti, thanks so much for joining
[45:25] me today on the on the podcast.
[45:28] Well, thank you for having us.
[45:30] Yeah. I like thank you.
[45:40] That was Q NEXT's
[45:42] David Auchlum
[45:44] and Priti
[45:45] Chalsani
[45:46] of Intersect
[45:47] Illinois.
[45:48] Thanks to both of them for speaking to
[45:50] me today,
[45:52] and a special thanks to our producer, Fred
[45:54] Isles.
[45:55] I'm afraid that's all the time we have
[45:57] for this week's podcast,
[45:59] which is supported
[46:00] by American Elements.
[46:03] This podcast is brought to you by American
[46:06] Elements,
[46:07] the world's leading manufacturer
[46:09] of engineered
[46:10] and advanced materials.
[46:12] With a catalog of over 35,000
[46:16] products available in both industrial bulk and laboratory
[46:20] quantities,
[46:21] American Elements is the largest
[46:24] supplier of its kind.
[46:26] For more than twenty five years, its research
[46:29] and development programs
[46:31] have been a vital resource for innovation across
[46:34] corporate,
[46:35] government, and academic sectors.
[46:38] The company's ability to scale laboratory
[46:41] breakthroughs
[46:42] to industrial
[46:43] production
[46:44] has contributed
[46:45] to many of the most significant
[46:48] technological
[46:49] advancements
[46:50] since 1990,
[46:52] including LED lighting, smartphones,
[46:55] and electric vehicles.
[46:57] To learn more, visit
[46:59] www.americanelements.com.
[47:04] American Elements.
[47:06] Now invent.

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