# Jim Henson Podcast for Kids

An episode of [The Children's Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1373480705), 15 Sep 2026, 59 min.

Audio: https://media.blubrry.com/childrenshour/ins.blubrry.com/childrenshour/TCH_Jim-Henson_podcast.mp3

This time on The Children's Hour podcast for kids we learn about the extraordinary life of Jim Henson, the legendary puppeteer who created Sesame Street, the Muppets, and many movies, TV shows, and songs. Jim Henson's biographer Brian Jay Jones joins the Kids Crew in an exploration of the creative genius of a guy who just wanted to be remembered as a true artist. Learn even more in our learning guide.

## Transcript

[0:01] Coming up on The Children's Hour, we learn about the great muppeteer Jim Henson with biographer
[0:08] Brian Jay Jones. In television, on stage, and in the moviemaking industry as a whole, Jim
[0:15] Henson's visionary puppetry made the impossible happen. His work has inspired generations
[0:23] of Sesame Street and Muppets fans worldwide and has changed the technology of the art
[0:29] form of puppetry. with a learning guide and activities at childrenshour.org and filled
[0:36] with excellent music, stick with us for The Children's Hour. The Children's Hour is an
[0:42] independent production of The Children's Hour Incorporated, a New Mexico based non-profit.
[0:47] We're distributed by Native Voice One, The Native American radio network. It's time for The
[0:53] Children's Hour. Kids Public Radio.
[1:04] What do you get when you buy 13 Muppets? I don't know what! A Beaker's dozen.
[1:16] It's time for The Children's Hour! Kids Public Radio!
[1:28] Search of good times and good news With good friends you can't lose This could become a
[1:34] habit Opportunity knocks once Let's reach out and grab it Together we'll nab it We'll hitchhike,
[1:43] bus or yellow cabot Cabot? Hey, that song is sounding better, Fozzie. oh
[2:12] And your way is my way So trust my navigation California, here we come, high in the skyland
[2:21] Palm trees and warm sand Though sadly we just left Rhode Island We did what? Just forget
[2:28] it, I'm moving right along Hey LA, where have you gone? Send someone to fetch us, we're
[2:35] in Saskatchewan I'm moving right along You take it, you know best. Hey, I've never seen
[2:43] the sun come up in the west.
[3:17] Yeah
[3:21] He stars with flashy cars and life with the top down. We're storming the big town. Yeah,
[3:27] storm is right. Should it be snowing? No, I don't think so. Moving right along. Do I
[3:34] see signs of men? Yeah, welcome on the same boat that says come back again. Moving right
[3:41] along. Nice town. Footloose and fancy free. You're ready for that big time. Is it pretty
[3:48] for me?
[3:58] Moving
[4:13] you
[4:17] Kermit the Frog and Fozzie the Bear from the Muppet Movie Original Soundtrack right here on The
[4:23] Children's Hour. I'm Katie Stone. We're here at the Outpost Performance Space and on Zoom
[4:29] with a whole lot of great kids. Hello, everyone. Hi. And who do we have with us today? Hi,
[4:39] it's Thorfin. Hi, it's Evander. Hi, it's Xander. Hi, it's Caibiya. Hi, it's Keaton. Hello, it's
[4:45] Marcel. Hi, it's Niko. Hi, it's Rahm. Hi, it's Nina. Hello, it's Lucasti. Well, everyone, I'm
[4:52] pretty excited about today's show because we're going to be talking about somebody who made
[4:58] a huge difference in this world. His name is Jim Henson. Your assignment for this recording
[5:06] session was that you had to watch something that Jim Henson made. Did everyone do that
[5:14] assignment? Yeah. I've watched a number of Jim Henson things this year. Oh, me too. I
[5:21] watched Jim Henson things a lot. What did you watch? The Muppets. Oh, yes. Muppets Take
[5:28] Manhattan. Oh, I love that one. What's one of your favorites, Thorfin? Hmm. Well, I've watched
[5:34] the first three and a half seasons of The Muppet Show. Love it. How about you, Rahm? What did
[5:39] you watch? I watched Muppets Treasure Island. Oh, that's a good one. Xander, did you watch
[5:46] any Muppets? I watched the Christmas Carol movie. The Muppet version of the Christmas
[5:52] Carol. How about you Keaton? Did you watch any Muppets? No, but I watched the Dark Crystal.
[5:58] I love the Dark Crystal. We're going to be playing music from the Dark Crystal later on in the
[6:03] show. We have a lot to learn with Brian Jay Jones. He's a writer and a biographer and he wrote
[6:11] one of the most definitive biographies of Jim Henson that exists and he's with us today on
[6:16] The Children's Hour. Stick with us. We're going to go for a little walk on Sesame Street.
[6:27] are the people in your neighborhood? In your neighborhood. In your neighborhood. Say, who
[6:34] are the people in your neighborhood? The people that you meet each day. Oh, hi there, little
[6:40] fella. Oh. Hey listen, you know who you could be if I gave you this little hat and a bag
[6:46] to carry over your shoulder? That could be a laundry man. No, not a laundry How about Santa
[6:51] Claus? No, no, no, not Santa Claus. What's wrong with Santa There's nothing wrong with Santa
[6:54] Claus. Don't you like Christmas? Oh, I love Christmas, but you could be the postman. A
[6:57] postman? Hmm. Oh, the postman always brings dumb mail Through rain or snow or sleet or
[7:05] hail I'll work and work the whole day through To get your letter safe, oh you. Cause a postman
[7:14] is a person in your neighborhood. In your neighborhood. He's in your neighborhood. A postman is a
[7:21] person in your neighborhood. A person that you meet each day. I'll see you around. Hey,
[7:28] watch it. Where you going? a fire? Hey, speaking of a fire. Fire? What fire? Help! No, there's
[7:32] no fire at all, but you know who you could be if I gave you this little shiny red hat? Yeah,
[7:36] Santa Claus. No, not Santa Claus. No, no. red riding No, no, no, not red riding hood. You
[7:41] could be a fireman. A fireman? Holy smoke. It's said his engine is a shiny red. If there's
[7:54] a fire anywhere above, well, I'll be sure to put it out. Because a fireman is a person
[8:02] in your neighborhood. In your neighborhood. He's in your neighborhood. And a postman is
[8:08] a person in your neighborhood. Well, they're the people that you meet. When you're walking
[8:13] down the street, they're the people that you meet each day. That was the People in Your Neighborhood
[8:23] from Sesame Street off Bob's All Time Favorites. And the very first version of that song was
[8:30] released in 1969. During the 23rd episode of Sesame Street. Sesame Street now has over 4,700
[8:40] episodes. You're listening to The Children's Hour. I'm Katie Stone. I'm here with the kids
[8:46] at the Outpost Performance Space and on Zoom. And today our guest is joining us again. His
[8:51] name is Brian Jay Jones. He's a writer and a biographer. And the last time you were with
[8:56] us, we were talking about Dr. Seuss. Today we're going to be talking about Jim Henson. Welcome
[9:02] to The Children's Hour again, Brian. Thank you, Katie. It's great to be with all of you guys
[9:06] again. It's wonderful to have you. There's so much to know about Jim Henson, but just in
[9:11] case somebody's tuning in and they say, Jim who? Tell us about him. So most people know
[9:18] Jim Henson best as the creator of The Muppets, but The Muppets is more than just The Muppet
[9:23] Show Muppets. It's also all the Muppets you know and love from Sesame Street, for example,
[9:27] Ernie and Bert and Oscar and Big Bird. Those were all created by Jim Henson. One of the
[9:32] kids here called it Dark Crystal is a Jim Henson production. It was a film he did as he was trying
[9:38] to do some different things that weren't just Muppet oriented. He did Labyrinth, which I
[9:42] know a lot of people really love. He did a television show called the Jim Henson Hour later on in
[9:47] his life, but he was always doing a lot of really innovative and fun things. Really loved gadgets,
[9:52] loved TV, loved inventions, loved remote control, but loved families and loved kids and really
[9:57] wanted to do things that were good for families and good for kids. He must have had quite a
[10:03] remarkable childhood to have launched into the Muppets and made Kermit the Frog at a very
[10:10] young age. Kermit the Frog is sort of like, kind of represents all good things. He's always
[10:16] very moral and thoughtful about the decisions that he makes. He's funny, he sings, he dances,
[10:23] and he's got a dream in the Muppet movie that he's gonna follow to the end of the earth.
[10:29] And in a way I felt like that was really the story of Jim Henson himself. Yeah, the Muppet
[10:35] movie is kind of Jim's own story. Hey, we're all going to Hollywood. You want to come with
[10:39] us? There's a lot of little clever touches about using Kermit to advertise things. They wanted
[10:44] to use him as a spokesman for a frog leg company. And Jim Henson did a lot of advertising very
[10:48] early on in his career. Kermit was actually invented when Jim was still in high school.
[10:54] He wanted to be on television when he was a senior in high school in Maryland. and responded
[10:58] to an advertisement in the newspaper saying they needed young people to come to the local
[11:02] TV show and perform puppets. And Jim didn't actually know anything about puppets, but he
[11:07] checked a book out of the school library and learned how to build and perform Muppets and
[11:11] went down to the TV station and auditioned for it and got the job. That's what got him into
[11:16] puppetry was because he wanted to be on television more than anything else. And Kermit came about
[11:21] the first year that Jim was performing puppets. He actually built Kermit out of his mother's
[11:25] coat. with ping pong balls for his eyes, and ping pong balls are still mostly what they
[11:29] do use for Kermit's eyes to these days. But Kermit's initial color, and you can go see
[11:33] him, if you're ever in Washington, D.C., the original Kermit's in the Smithsonian, and he's
[11:37] sort of blue. He's not really green, because when Jim invented Kermit, he didn't really
[11:42] think he was gonna be a frog at that time. He was more just this weird Kermit the thing.
[11:46] Tell us how he came from being in TV commercials to Sesame Street. So when... Jim Henson started
[11:54] performing puppets on television in the late 50s and early 60s. Puppets didn't really exist
[11:58] on television at that point. Jim Henson figured out something really cool about performing
[12:02] on television, which was if you're on TV, you don't need to film a puppet theater. The four
[12:06] sides of the TV are the puppet theater and taking that puppet theater away and putting them in
[12:10] the real world made them really magical and really realistic at the same time. So Jim was
[12:15] really, really good at puppetry and so good at it that people hired him to make a lot of
[12:19] commercials. and started appearing on television shows throughout the 60s. His first really
[12:24] famous Muppet was actually Rowlf the Dog, who was on a TV show called the Jimmy Dean Show.
[12:29] In the words of the immortal Rin Tin Tin, without a dog you got nothing. Hugely popular, Rowlf
[12:36] the Dog got more fan mail than Jimmy Dean even did. And when they're working on Sesame Street
[12:40] in the late 60s, about 68, 69. They wanted puppets on Sesame Street. And one of the
[12:54] creators of Sesame Street said, I know the guy that you need to do puppets on Sesame Street.
[12:59] And he's so good that if you can't get him, you should not have puppets on Sesame Street.
[13:05] They didn't just want any old puppets. They wanted Jim Henson and the Muppets on Sesame
[13:08] Street. I know that Jim Henson's first show was known as Sam and Friends. I was wondering if
[13:14] you could tell us a bit about it. So Sam and Friends was the first show that Jim ever got.
[13:19] He was still a teenager, and It was because people had seen what he could do. He had performed
[13:24] on little local variety shows in Washington, DC. It was only a five minute show. Cause this
[13:29] is back in the day when there was about a five minute gap between when the news ended and
[13:33] when the next show came on, which at that time was the tonight show. So they had to fill that
[13:37] little five minute spot between the news and the next show with little local productions
[13:41] and Sam and friends was Jim's show that he created to fill that little spot. It was
[13:54] primarily a lot of lip syncing to records. He would take really funny songs and have Muppets
[13:58] perform to it and lip sync to it. Didn't really start doing voices until much later in it,
[14:03] but it was such a huge hit that he won a local Emmy award for it. And it sort of launched
[14:08] him on the TV because people told the host of The Tonight Show in New York City, You've got
[14:12] to see what's going on down in Washington, D.C. These guys are nuts down here. So they brought
[14:17] Jim and his then working partner, later wife, Jane, to New York to perform the Muppets on
[14:22] The Tonight Show with Steve Allen, like in 1958 or 59. Happy to have them with us today. Here
[14:28] are the Muppets.
[14:39] And it was just because he had that little five minute gap in there. But at one point the local
[14:43] NBC station took that off the air and they were just pounded with mail from people who were
[14:49] fans of the show saying, how dare you take Sam and friends off the air? We're talking with Brian
[14:53] Jay Jones today about the life and work of puppeteering icon Jim Henson. You're listening to The Children's
[14:58] Hour. There's a learning guide for this episode at ChildrensHour.org. Look for Jim Henson.
[15:14] There's only one song worth singing They may try and sell ya Cause it hangs them up To
[15:23] see someone like
[15:43] you
[15:49] gonna be nowhere
[15:55] lonely it may be rough going just to do your thing uh
[16:28] you cannot take my
[16:47] You got
[17:00] you
[17:26] Music grows in the rose, rain and the blowing snowstorm, Everything seems to sing,
[17:33] Everywhere I go. You say, One, Two, Play me do, Let me sound as sweet as you, Play me
[17:42] wide, Play me long, Let me be your song. Hey, we sound good! Woohoo! Yeah! I love this song.
[17:52] Come on, Common Fraggle! Your turn, Common Fraggle! Yeah! me be your song, yeah, you can
[17:57] sing along. Sing it in the sun glow, sing it in the storm like a dream that I'm on. Bringing
[18:02] us along, wings become strong when I'm trusting in my song. Might go against the norm, might
[18:08] go beyond. The movement is the music, show improvement where we on. To the Fraggles, the rock stars
[18:13] born. Find your voice, find your song, and we can all join with the one. One, two, play me
[18:18] do. Let me sound as sweet as you. Play me wide, play me long. me be your Yeah! Hey, Boomer,
[18:32] Wembley, Moki, come join us! Wow! Lay me down on the ground. Song comes singing from the
[18:40] midnight places. Raise me high in the sky. Song comes drifting through. I say one, two,
[18:48] play me do. Let me sound as sweet as you. Play me wide, play me long. Let me be your song.
[19:05] Hi
[19:34] You just heard Let Me Be Your Song from Fraggle Rock, Rock On! And before that, Cass Elliot's
[19:40] Make Your Own Kind of Music off Mama's Big Ones. Jim Henson really worked hard to make his
[19:47] own kind of shows and films. You can learn even more about him with our learning guide
[19:54] and activities. These meet and cite national education standards and they can be found at
[19:59] ChildrensHour.org. Just look for Jim Henson. You're listening to The Children's Hour, Kids
[20:08] Public Radio. We'll be right back. The Children's Hour is a production of The Children's Hour,
[20:16] Inc. We're a New Mexico-based nonprofit organization supported by listeners just like you. You
[20:23] can learn more about us at ChildrensHour.org. New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs
[20:29] supports the ChildrensHour. Museum of International Folk Art and Museum of Indian Arts and Culture
[20:33] in Santa Fe, New Mexico celebrate cultural heritage from New Mexico and across the world. More
[20:39] at MOIFA.org. The Children's Hour shorts have dropped. We made short segments from our shows
[20:49] for educators to make the most out of our learning guides and activities. Season 1 of The Children's
[20:54] Hour shorts is at childrenshour.org. Look for the shorts!
[21:04] Oh, I love trash. Anything dirty or dingy or dusty. Anything ragged or rotten or rusty.
[21:16] Yes, I love trash. If you really want to see something trashy, look at this. I have here
[21:24] a sneaker that's tattered and worn. It's all full of holes and the laces are torn A gift
[21:32] from my mother the day I was born I love it because it's trash Oh, I love Trash Anything
[21:44] dirty or stingy or dusty Anything ragged or rotten or rusty Yes, I love trash Here's
[21:56] some more rotten stuff I have here some newspaper 13 months old. I brought fish inside and
[22:04] it's smelly and old. But I wouldn't trade it for a big pot of gold. I love it because it's
[22:13] trash. Yes, I love trash. Anything dirty or dingy or dusty. Anything ragged or rotten
[22:25] or rusty. Yes, I love trash. Now look at this restless junk. I've a clock that won't
[22:35] work and an old telephone. A broken umbrella, a rusty trombone. And I am delighted to call
[22:45] them my own. I love them because they're Oh, love trash Anything dirty or stingy or dusty
[22:58] Anything ragged or rotten or rusty Yes, I love, I love, I love trash
[23:15] That was Oscar the Grouch with I Love Trash off of Sesame Street's Platinum All Time Favorites
[23:21] album. You're listening to The Children's Hour. I'm Katie Stone and our guest is writer and
[23:26] biographer Brian Jay Jones. He's talking about the puppeteer, founder of Sesame Street and
[23:32] the Muppets, Jim Henson. Was there anything unique in Mr. Henson's creative process that
[23:37] allowed him to be so successful in things like puppetry and puppet design specifically? One
[23:42] of the reasons he was really successful in puppetry especially on television is because he didn't
[23:47] know what the rules were. Jim wasn't into puppetry when he was a kid. He got into it primarily
[23:52] to get into TV, but because he didn't really know what the rules were of performing puppets
[23:57] on television, he did a lot of what I call finding solutions to problems hidden in plain sight.
[24:02] So for example, when you've got a puppet on television, when you're performing a muppet
[24:06] on TV, they exist in the space between the four sides of the TV screen. Jim understood that
[24:11] if what you're seeing on that screen is what matters, you better know what that looks like.
[24:15] And the solution to that was just putting a television monitor on the floor right in front
[24:18] of his feet. So the entire time you're performing as a muppet performer, and they still do this
[24:23] to this day, this is the muppet style performing, you're not watching the puppet over your head,
[24:27] you're watching that television monitor on the floor in front of you. That was a solution
[24:31] hidden in plain sight that Jim came up with. He understood how making them look realistic
[24:35] on television as if they existed in three dimensions meant knowing exactly how that looked like. It's
[24:40] also something really cool because doing performing that way, You're really the only performer
[24:44] who is watching your performance at the same time you're performing. No other performer
[24:48] really gets to do that. So that was really one of his big innovations. And it's because he
[24:52] didn't really know what the rules were. And he also figured out people who are the human
[24:57] beings with the Muppets, and you see this on Sesame Street, they clearly forget or they
[25:03] completely accept that the Muppet is who they're talking to, not the person whose hand is holding
[25:09] the Muppet. And the thing that I loved most about Sesame Street was seeing how kids responded
[25:14] to that, kids definitely get that right away. They get that a puppet is alive, just like
[25:22] a person. Yeah, I mean, and Jim would often say that, you know, what makes the magic work
[25:27] isn't magic, it's hard work on the part of the performer. But he and his performers are so
[25:31] good that as you're saying, they tend to disappear. Go to YouTube and watch Jim Henson on Johnny
[25:36] Carson. Jim is sitting right there in front of Johnny, and the minute he puts Kermit the
[25:40] Frog on his arm, They stopped talking to Jim Henson and started talking immediately to the
[25:44] puppet. And here's my old friend Kermit. Hi there. Hi. Hello, Caroline. Hello out there.
[25:50] Yeah, it's nice to be here. How's your love life? What? my love life. How was your love
[25:59] life? Listen, I work on Sesame Street. You don't ask a frog questions like that. It's so convincing
[26:08] that Jim disappeared. He doesn't even have to hide. How did he make Kermit ride a bike in the
[26:14] Muppet movie? So that is a lot of different things going on at one time. There's a little
[26:24] bit of camera tricks involved with that. Sometimes you'll see Kermit just from the waist up, and
[26:28] that's someone just performing the top of it. There is some marionette performing going on
[26:33] where the bike is moving and there's somebody performing from above. There's also some remote
[26:37] control going on. There's some remote control bikes in the works there. He did it again in,
[26:41] I believe it's in the Great Muppet Caper where you have a whole lot of Muppets riding bikes
[26:46] at one point. That one was actually a little bit easier because he connected all the bikes
[26:51] together. You couldn't see how he did it, but he had a lot of the wheels connect with each
[26:54] other. And at the very front, there's a kid on a bike very slowly pedaling and who's dragging
[27:00] those bikes along with him. Now that person riding that bike was actually Brian Henson,
[27:03] who helped figure out how to make a lot of Muppets ride a bike. Jim loved that trick. He always
[27:08] had in all of his shows what he called the, how'd they do that moment? And Kermit riding
[27:13] a bike is one of those moments. The other, how'd they do that moment? is Kermit singing in the
[27:17] middle of a swamp in the opening of the Muppet movie. Why are there so many songs about
[27:26] rainbows? And what's on the other side? All you can think is the only way he could
[27:35] be doing that is if he was underwater. And he was. He was in this barrel underwater. It was
[27:42] almost like being buried alive. I would think sitting with his legs crossed in the dark with
[27:45] a television monitor in his lap watching his performance, sticking his arm up through the
[27:50] very top of that barrel in the Kermit on a log in the middle of a swamp. People talked about
[27:55] how when they would get done with the scene, they would take him out of that barrel and
[27:58] lay him on the ground. And he had to wait while his legs sort of unfolded again. He was so
[28:03] stiff from being under, you know, essentially underwater in that barrel for an hour at a
[28:07] time. So Jim loved tricks like that. He loved figuring out how to problem solve, how to do
[28:13] tricks like that, that had audiences wondering how in the heck did they do that? You're hearing
[28:17] the voice of Brian Jay Jones. He's a writer and a biographer. And he's written a lot of books
[28:23] about a lot of different people, including Jim Henson, the biography. He's also written books
[28:29] about George Lucas. And you've heard him on The Children's Hour before talking about Dr.
[28:33] Seuss. We've got links and a lot more posted to ChildrensHour.org. Look for this episode,
[28:39] Jim Henson. We've got more. Together again, again Gee, it's good to be together again,
[28:50] again I just can't imagine that you've ever been gone It's not starting over, it's just
[28:59] going on Together again, again Now we're here and there's no
[29:08] There's no feeling, feels like that feeling. Together again. Again. Again. Again.
[29:22] She is good to be together again, again. I just can't imagine that you've ever been gone.
[29:30] It's not starting over. It's just going on. Together again, again. Now we're
[29:47] you
[30:04] Imagine that you've ever been gone It's not starting over It's just going on! Together
[30:11] again, again Gee, it's good to be together again, again! Cause don't feel it, you might
[30:20] not feel it Together-a Together-a
[30:41] That was Together Again, sung by the Muppets, off the original motion picture soundtrack
[30:46] for Muppets Most Wanted. What was the biggest challenge in making something truthful and funny
[30:53] for all ages? For Jim, the biggest challenge was actually getting people to understand that
[30:57] puppetry wasn't just for kids. That puppetry, especially if you do it well, can appeal to
[31:02] everyone. Jim actually toured Europe and watched the way people responded to puppet shows, and
[31:07] it really taught him a lot about the art of puppetry, but that was one of the things that
[31:11] made things like Sesame Street and The Muppet Show so different is that kids loved watching
[31:17] The Muppets and their parents loved watching it for the writing, the writing which was very
[31:21] smart. And sometimes there were two different things going on. The kids were laughing at
[31:25] one thing while the parents were laughing at another. So that was one of those things Jim
[31:29] always did really well with The Muppets was he didn't call them children's entertainment.
[31:32] He called them family entertainment. He was very frustrated at one point in his career
[31:36] when they were trying to say, you're a children's performer because you're on Sesame Street.
[31:39] And Jim kept saying, I'm not, I'm a family performer. I do a whole lot of different things. So that
[31:44] was one of his frustrations. I think more than anything else was making people understand
[31:47] that puppetry and in particular the muppets were for everybody and not just young kids.
[31:53] Ho many kids did he have? He had five kids born between 1960 and 1970. So quite the, quite
[31:59] the clan there and really respected the opinion of his own kids. They always talked about how
[32:05] the best thing you could do with him was work with him. So as they became teenagers and Jim
[32:10] was working on the Muppet Show in London for summer break, a lot of them would just go over
[32:14] to London and work in the workshop and help build puppets. And Brian Henson talked about
[32:18] how he got to perform a penguin on the Muppet Show at one point. His kids they loved working with
[32:22] him. Cheryl, his second oldest child, his second oldest daughter was actually really pivotal
[32:28] in helping develop the dark crystal. A lot of that came out of ideas she and Jim had thrown
[32:32] around. And I think that respect he has for his kids is why he was so good at Sesame Street. He
[32:36] Really valued their opinions as people, talked to them directly as people, which was kind
[32:42] of foreign to a lot of people. You know, I'm a first generation Sesame Street kid. And
[32:48] when Star Wars came out, the first thing I noticed about Yoda was that he had the same
[32:54] voice as Grover. My favorite. Oh, wait, but you haven't. I mean, you know, harm. I am wondering,
[33:03] why are you here? I remember what I saw in 1980 when I saw the Empire Strikes Back, the
[33:08] kid behind me as soon as Yoda opened his mouth said, Grover! Yoda came about again as problem
[33:15] solving. George Lucas knew he wanted a very small Jedi master. He had originally played around
[33:20] with having a monkey in a costume dressed as Yoda, a small person doing Yoda, maybe a remote
[33:26] control version. And they eventually decided to ask Jim and his company, Can you build
[33:32] us something, a puppet that could be performed? And actually wanted Jim Henson himself to perform
[33:36] Yoda. Jim did not, he was too busy to do that. But then the great thing about that project,
[33:40] again, collaborating with George Lucas, is he had this entire production company behind him
[33:44] that built things like robots and models. And they showed him how to build a remote control
[33:50] puppet, which is what Yoda basically is. There's a hand up inside Yoda, but his eyes are moved
[33:54] by remote control and his ears are moved by remote control. lot of wires coming out of
[33:58] him, but taught him a lot about how to build things like that, which Jim then applied to
[34:02] building the creatures in something like the Dark Crystal. That project was really, really
[34:06] important to him. In fact, one of the reasons he sort of stopped doing the Muppet Show is
[34:10] we could go do movies like the Dark Crystal. Oh, the prophecy says you must find the shard,
[34:19] the Crystal Shard. The Crystal Shard? Movies like Labyrinth, which took performing and puppetry
[34:27] to the next level. You have 13 hours in which to solve the labyrinth before your...
[34:38] Not only are the puppets in Labyrinth different, the design of the sets is so beautiful and
[34:43] the costumes. And a lot of people told me that that movie looked exactly the way Jim Henson
[34:48] wanted it to look. That was very much sort of his design sense, that very lush, exotic look
[34:54] in people's dresses and costuming and the way the land looks. Toward the end of his life,
[34:58] he was even doing early CGI, computer generated imagery. Nowadays we don't even think about,
[35:04] we use it in everything. But at that time it didn't really exist and Jim figured out how
[35:08] to perform a computer generated character on the Jim Henson hour by putting a device on
[35:14] one hand that when you would move its mouth, it would transmit that to a computer that would
[35:18] then animate a puppet. So it was sort of advancing the art of puppetry then by doing it remotely,
[35:24] which they still can do today to this day. So. Jim just loved advancing the art of puppetry,
[35:30] but really playing with those gadgets. Jim loves technology. That's our guest, Brian J. Jones,
[35:37] and we're talking about Jim Henson. Coming up, we still have a few more questions for
[35:41] our guest. Plus, Ram from our kids' crew has a report from the Jim Henson Creature Shop
[35:47] in New York City. And later, we hear from one of our interns, Isaac, about Jim Henson's production
[35:53] of the Dark Crystal. This is The Children's Hour and this is Dance Magic Dance by David
[35:59] Bowie from Jim Henson's Labyrinth.
[36:10] Yeah
[36:47] dance
[37:11] I saw my baby trying
[37:41] I said Magic
[37:49] Spell on me
[38:56] Spell to use Slamming snails Or puppy dog tails Thunder or lightning Something for you Dance,
[39:09] dance Dance, dance,
[39:17] Jump!
[39:43] Stop that, baby!
[39:53] You're listening to The Children's Hour Kids Public Radio. We'll be right back. Support
[40:00] for The Children's Hour provided by New Mexico Arts, a division of the New Mexico Department
[40:04] of Cultural Affairs and by the National Endowment for the Arts. Support for The Children's Hour
[40:10] provided by the City of Albuquerque Cultural Services Department and the Urban Enhancement
[40:16] Trust Fund. The Children's Hour is grateful to Keshet Dance Company and Center for the
[40:22] Arts. They're celebrating 30 years of impact in dance, mentorship, and social justice in
[40:27] Albuquerque and beyond. Learn more at KeshetArts.org. Keep up with The Children's Hour and sign
[40:33] up for our monthly newsletter at ChildrensHour.org.
[40:43] Hi, I love The Children's Hour because it's fun and you go to all sorts of different places.
[40:49] I'm Yeshi James from Australia. Take The Children's Hour with you on your road trip. Find us at
[40:55] childrenshour.org or anywhere you listen to podcasts. You're listening to The Children's
[41:01] Hour and today on the show we're learning about the great puppeteer and actor and puppet builder
[41:05] Jim Henson with biographer Brian Jay Jones. Biographer being someone who writes books about people.
[41:12] I remember hearing when Jim Henson passed away in 1990, he died from something that was actually
[41:18] treatable like strep throat. Is that what happened? So sort of. He died of a massive streptococcal
[41:26] infection. He did not know how sick he was. He felt at first for a while like he had strep
[41:31] throat. He had sort of a bad sore throat, didn't know how bad it was. And it turned out that
[41:36] the bacteria was sort of, if I can be gross, was sort of eating his lungs. Jim just did
[41:41] not realize how sick that he was. Jim hated getting sick. He hated it so much that anytime
[41:46] he got sick, he would write it in his journal or he would put it on his calendar. I get the
[41:50] flu, I have pneumonia. He would write that on the calendar. It really made him mad because
[41:54] it meant he wasn't working, which he loved to do. Being sick was really an inconvenience
[41:58] for Jim. And I think when he got sick and didn't really realize how bad it was, the symptoms
[42:03] were very flu-like. And I think he just thought he was going to power through because the symptoms
[42:07] again were very flu-like. runny nose, a little bit of a sore throat, a slight cough. That
[42:11] was really it. He didn't even run a fever. Wow. That's so sad. Very sad. What was Jim Henson's
[42:18] favorite puppet out of the ones that he used? So I don't know that Jim would have ever said
[42:24] he had a favorite. One of really interesting things about Jim and his relationship to his
[42:28] puppets is that he was never terribly dear with them, meaning he didn't pretend they were real.
[42:34] There's a really funny story about Jim. was performing something on Sesame Street with
[42:38] Caroll Spinney, who does Big Bird and Oscar. And I think it was Ernie he was performing.
[42:42] And when they were done, he just sort of dropped Ernie on the floor. And Carol Spinney went
[42:46] over and scooped up Ernie and said, Oh no, Jim didn't mean to do that. And Jim said, do you
[42:50] really talk to the puppets like that? And when a puppet was out of commission, he would literally
[42:54] throw it in the kid's toy box at his house. So when the Smithsonian got ready to put the
[42:58] old Kermit and a lot of these puppets in the Smithsonian, they had to go fish them out of
[43:02] the Henson toy box and restore them. Because as Lisa Henson told me, they beat the heck
[43:05] out of the puppets. But I think Jim would say that there are two puppets in particular that
[43:09] are very close to his own sort of personality. Kermit, of course, is one that a lot of people
[43:15] associate with Jim. And even Jim would say, you know, I'm a lot like Kermit. On the Muppet
[43:19] Show, Kermit's always the middle of the storm. All the chaos kind of revolves around Kermit.
[43:24] And at the end of the day, everybody sort of comes back together around Kermit. So as one
[43:28] of the writers said, at the end of the day, the score of the game would be Chaos 100, Frog
[43:32] 101. And I think Jim would say that that was fair. If I had to say the Muppet I think is
[43:39] most closely aligned with Jim's personality, I would say that it is probably Rowlf the dog.
[43:45] Rowlf is sort of homespun, one of those characters you might find sitting on the front porch in
[43:49] a rocking chair dispensing wisdom to people and being very funny and laid back about it.
[43:54] I think Rolf is much closer to Jim's personality even than Kermit. While writing his biography,
[44:00] was there anything you found to be the most interesting to learn about? One of the things
[44:04] that really shocked me was his connection to New Mexico. What? One of the first bits of
[44:11] information I got out of the archives was a digital recording of Jim interviewing his parents.
[44:17] And he had done it on a little cassette tape, but the archivist at the Henson Company had
[44:20] moved it to a digital file so I could listen to it on my computer in headphones. And it
[44:24] was really useful as a biographer because it's Jim asking his parents about growing up in
[44:28] Maryland and how they met each other and his grandparents. And Jim at the end of the tape
[44:31] says, Oh, we should probably tell everybody where we are. We're here in Albuquerque. And
[44:35] I, in my headphones, I sat up and I had no idea. And he said, we're on Dona Rowena, which is
[44:41] a street about a half a mile from where I grew up in the Northeast Heights. And I sat up again.
[44:46] Lisa says, why would you say that on tape? And Jim says, well, because you never know someday
[44:52] someone might want to know who we were. and what we were doing here, which is a message
[44:57] from subject to biographer if I've ever heard one, but that was completely new to me. I had
[45:01] no idea Jim's father had lived here. Jim was here all the time in Albuquerque. I think it's
[45:07] the great Muppet Caper. The opening scene of that is in hot air balloons that was filmed
[45:12] here in Albuquerque. When the balloon comes down to land in the street, you can actually see
[45:16] downtown Albuquerque for about a second and a half on video there. Jim loved Santa Fe, he loved
[45:21] Taos, and in fact his ashes eventually were scattered up in Taos. So Jim has some real
[45:26] connections to New Mexico, which I did not know at the time. That was one of the biggest surprises,
[45:30] I think, to me. You're hearing the voice of Brian Jay Jones. He is a writer and biographer.
[45:36] And one of the books he's written is called Jim Henson, The Biography. And we care about
[45:41] Jim Henson's New Mexico connection, because that's where The Children's Hour is based,
[45:45] in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So now we're gonna consider Jim Henson one of our own, I guess.
[45:50] Absolutely, I think he would be fine with that. He's an albuquerque-an. Brian, thank you so
[45:55] much for being with us again on The Children's Hour. We've learned a lot from you. Of course,
[45:58] it's so great to be with all of you guys here. And keep believing, keep pretending. We still
[46:04] have a lot more to learn. One of our kids crew members, Rahm, took a tour of Jim Henson's
[46:10] Creature Shop, located in Queens, New York City. There, he saw the magic in action. Hi, this
[46:19] is Rahm on The Children's Hour. I'm about to go into the Jim Henson workshop.
[46:27] Right in front of Jim Henson's creature shop, it's in a place called Stewart's Cinema and
[46:34] Cafe. Look at that guy. They gave me a badge. It has all of the puppets looking at me. And
[46:44] it says guest on it. And it says 2026. We went into the creature workshop and I saw a bunch
[46:55] of characters that I knew like Elmo from Sesame Street and I figured out that there's like
[47:00] a basketball inside of Cookie's body and it had a hole in his mouth. So the puppeteer
[47:08] actually had cookies all over his face. We went into the puppet lounge. And there was
[47:18] a puppeteer and she showed us a bunch of puppets and they all worked different. My favorite was
[47:24] the duck because it was screaming, it's summer, it's summer, I'm gonna go to the beach, I'm
[47:29] gonna get ice cream.
[47:37] We just got out of the tour. I had some cheesy fries and a hot dog and I learned so much
[47:44] in the tour. That was Rahm on his trip to Jim Henson's Creature Shop in Queens, New York
[47:53] City. You can find photos and more at ChildrensHour.org. Look for Jim Henson.
[48:18] I reflect on my reflection and I ask myself the question What's the right direction to
[48:27] go?
[48:58] me a muppet
[49:15] the
[49:21] For me to decide
[49:56] is running out of time. I think I may.
[50:04] you
[50:55] That was Man or Muppet from The Muppets 2011 movie. But now we're going to head all the
[51:02] way back to 1982 to learn about the production of The Dark Crystal. Jim Henson had only produced
[51:09] two movies before this and The Dark Crystal was very different from his earlier works.
[51:15] We've talked a little about the production of The Dark Crystal so far, but now Isaac, our
[51:21] intern, goes into more detail. If you've watched Jim Henson's movie, The Dark Crystal, you understand
[51:28] how magical the world of Thra is. It's an alien planet with three suns, beautiful landscapes
[51:34] pulled straight out of a fairy tale, and a powerful crystal at the center of it all.
[51:38] Pretty awesome. In the movie, Thra is filled with fantastical, otherworldly creatures like
[51:44] the Skeksis, Gelfling, and Uru. Nowadays, people create characters like these with computers
[51:50] using CGI. However, just like in The Muppets, Jim Henson used puppets, but not just any
[51:56] old puppets. Jim Henson combined sculpture, costume design, animatronics, radio control
[52:02] technology, voice acting, and performance all together to create the final project. The
[52:08] puppets in this movie were way more realistic and expressive than what people were used to
[52:13] seeing in Jim Henson's other works. So, Jim Henson and his team used mechanisms that let
[52:18] the puppets' eyes, eyelids, ears, beaks, and facial features move naturally. The faces of
[52:24] characters like Jen and Kira were controlled remotely by a device barely bigger than a shoebox.
[52:30] This allowed the performers to focus on their physical acting, as the only things that needed
[52:35] to move were the body and the jaw. That isn't the only thing that made these puppets special.
[52:40] Each and every character in the movie had a unique design so that no two characters were
[52:46] the same. The Skeksis provided a large challenge for the team. because they were huge, heavy
[52:52] puppets that had to look scary and alive. To make them move and show emotions, the crew
[52:57] used a cable control system to move the Skeksis' eyes, faces, and hands. Each Skeksis was
[53:04] controlled by a main puppeteer who moved the body and head, while other helpers controlled
[53:08] smaller movements like blinking and facial expressions with the cable system. With these special
[53:14] controls, the Skeksis were able to snarl, gesture, and act like frightening creatures. The Gelfling
[53:20] protagonist, Kira, provided a different challenge for the team when puppeter Catherine Mullen
[53:26] ran into a huge problem. Kira is a character who is small and has to do tons of quick and
[53:32] natural movements. However, the cable controls to control the face were too bulky for her
[53:37] to be maneuvered correctly. Ultimately, a remote controlled face combined with Catherine Mullen's
[53:43] acting abilities led to the Kira we see on screen when we watch the Dark Crystal. There's one
[53:48] more thing about the production of these characters. Nothing was an accident. Every puppet's physical
[53:54] details was an intentional choice made by Henson and his crew. The eyes on the puppets were
[53:59] glass so they could blink and swivel like a real animal's eye. Craftspeople like Wendy
[54:04] Midner sculpted head after head so that characters like Jen and Kira were the perfect mix of human
[54:09] and animal. If you haven't seen The Dark Crystal yet, give it a try. You'll see that all this
[54:14] hard work really paid off. And you may fall in love with the movie too. That was Isaac,
[54:19] our intern and lifelong Jim Henson fan. Today on the show, we've learned all about Jim Henson.
[54:26] From Sam and Friends to The Muppets to Labyrinth and more, we've discovered how Jim Henson worked
[54:33] to push television and storytelling forward. If you want to learn more, we have a learning
[54:39] guide that meets and cites national education standards with this episode and many more.
[54:44] You can find this one at ChildrensHour.org, look under Jim Henson. We're almost out of
[54:50] time for you today on The Children's Hour, but we've got one more song, sung by everyone's
[54:56] favorite frog. This is the Rainbow Connection. We'll catch you next time on The Children's
[55:01] Hour. Why are there so many songs about rainbows? And what's on the other side? Rainbows
[55:15] are visions, but only illusions. And rainbows have nothing to hide. So we've been told and
[55:29] some choose to believe it. I know they're wrong, wait and see. Someday we'll find it,
[55:41] the rainbow connection. The lovers, the dreamers, and me. uh
[55:55] Said that every wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star.
[56:10] Someone believe that It's done so far What's so amazing that keeps a star gazing? And what
[56:26] do we think we might see? Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection, the lover. But
[56:40] Dreamer and me All of us under its spell We know that it's probably magic Have you
[56:57] been ever sleep? And have you heard voices? I've heard them calling my name Is this the
[57:10] sweet sound that calls the young sailors? The voice might be one and the same. I've heard
[57:22] it too many times to ignore it. It's something that I'm supposed to be. Someday we'll find
[57:35] it, the rainbow connection The lovers, the dreamers, and me
[57:51] You
[57:59] The Children's Hour is produced by The Children's Hour, incorperated, a New Mexico non-profit. You can
[58:05] find photos, playlists, learning guides, and activities for every episode at ChildrensHour.org.
[58:11] This episode of The Children's Hour was written and produced by Thaneil Lentz, with production
[58:16] help from me, Katie Stone, our intern, Isaac Isaac Lacerda, Sarah Gabrielli, and McKenzie Graunke.
[58:21] Our show is recorded at Outpost Performance Space by Chad Scheer. Amber Shiel writes our
[58:25] learning guides. Find this one at ChildrensHour.org. Look for Jim Henson. Find our podcast wherever
[58:32] you listen to podcasts or go to our patreon.com slash The Children's Hour or ask your smart
[58:38] speaker to play The Children's Hour podcast. Our theme music was written by C.K. Barlow. The
[58:45] Children's Hour is distributed by Native Voice One, the Native American radio network. Thanks
[58:51] for listening to The Children's Hour Kids Public Radio © 2026 The Children’s Hour Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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