# Episode 191: Tar Spot, Tip Back, and Real-Time Plant Data with Jeff Kleypas

An episode of [Regenerative Agriculture Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1372359995), 8 Oct 2026, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/regenerativeagriculture/Ep_191_-_Jeff_Kleypas.mp3?dest-id=4976130

Jeff Kleypas is Distribution Manager and Senior Agronomist at Advancing Eco Agriculture, based in South Texas. He began his career 20 years ago as a crop consultant walking South Texas vegetable fields that were sprayed weekly with insecticides and fungicides. He started working with biologicals in 2009 and joined AEA four years ago. He also runs a 1.5-acre market farm at home, where he tests new tools himself. Jeff works with row crop growers and dealers across the Midwest and South, many of them now in year three or four of a full AEA program. This season he helped calibrate the CropTix sap sensor on cotton and corn and ran live demos at Midwest grower events. He uses FieldLark and other AI tools to turn sap, soil, and imagery data into faster recommendations. In this episode, John and Jeff discuss: • A 3,000-acre Illinois corn farm that saw 5% of the tar spot with Pinion compared to its conventional fungicide check. • How cutting P and K too hard led to tip back in Illinois corn. • How the Croptix sensor returns full sap results in minutes. • A grower with a 58-bushel soybean break-even who is averaging over 80, with some spots near 100. • Pinion results from Jeff's own cut flowers, including a full month without disease. • Why AI should make farmers better at seeing patterns in data, not replace them. • Why sugars give a much bigger response at much lower rates in biologically active soils. • A biological in-furrow program that beat a 2x2 of 40 units of nitrogen by 25 bushels. Additional Resources To learn more about FieldLark, please visit: https://fieldlark.ai To learn more about Pinion, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/product/pinion/ To learn more about Croptix, please visit: https://www.croptix.ag/ To listen to Jeff's earlier podcast short, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/podcast/podcast-short-10-breaking-away-from-traditional-agronomy-with-jeff-kleypas/ Learn more about AEA's regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com About John Kempf John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it. Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology. Support For This Show & Helping You Grow Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture. AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA's science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most. AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits. Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide. Learn more about AEA's regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com

## Transcript

[0:45] Speaker 1: All right. Hi, friends.
[0:47] Speaker 1: This is John. Welcome to the Region of
[0:50] Speaker 1: Agriculture podcast.
[0:50] Speaker 1: Today, I'm here with a good friend of
[0:53] Speaker 1: mine, Jeff Klapas, who's part of our team
[0:56] Speaker 1: here at AEA. And we're here to share some
[1:00] Speaker 1: exciting updates about things we've been
[1:02] Speaker 1: working on. There've been some
[1:04] Speaker 1: announcements and there've been people
[1:05] Speaker 1: publicly are aware of some of the things
[1:08] Speaker 1: that we've been working on, but oh my
[1:11] Speaker 1: goodness, have we've been having fun the
[1:14] Speaker 1: last year. Jeff, thanks for joining me
[1:16] Speaker 1: here and being willing to be a part of
[1:19] Speaker 1: this conversation.
[1:20] Speaker 1: I've as I've been having Discussions with
[1:23] Speaker 1: growers, we've been having such great
[1:25] Speaker 1: feedback and so much fun with the crop dix
[1:28] Speaker 1: devices and partnering that with Field
[1:30] Speaker 1: Lark. And then, of course, we've got
[1:33] Speaker 1: Pinion out in the field.
[1:35] Speaker 1: There's a lot of fun things that have
[1:38] Speaker 1: happened the last year.
[1:39] Speaker 1: And so I'd like to discuss those with you
[1:42] Speaker 1: and just get your observations and
[1:45] Speaker 1: perspectives. Every season, there's what
[1:46] Speaker 1: there have been every season, there are so
[1:49] Speaker 1: many highlights. There are things that
[1:51] Speaker 1: just go, wow, that is so incredible, and
[1:54] Speaker 1: you have so much fun with them.
[1:56] Speaker 1: What have been some of those moments for
[1:59] Speaker 1: you this year? Well, first off, John,
[2:01] Speaker 1: thanks for the invitation to join you
[2:03] Speaker 1: again. It's always a pleasure to have a
[2:06] Speaker 1: conversation and share, you know, all the
[2:08] Speaker 1: highlights for the year and what we're
[2:11] Speaker 1: learning agronomically.
[2:12] Speaker 1: Because one thing I think that really
[2:14] Speaker 1: stands out right now is that there's a lot
[2:17] Speaker 1: of unknowns in this world of agronomy.
[2:19] Speaker 1: I know this is probably the first time in
[2:22] Speaker 1: my career here in the last four years
[2:25] Speaker 1: where I feel like I'm learning something
[2:27] Speaker 1: every day. The farmers are just as active
[2:30] Speaker 1: in teaching as we are teaching them.
[2:32] Speaker 1: It's a real exciting time to be in this
[2:35] Speaker 1: industry. This year, profitability has
[2:38] Speaker 1: been the number one thing, number one
[2:41] Speaker 1: conversation conversation that comes up
[2:43] Speaker 1: with any grower that I'm talking to.
[2:46] Speaker 1: And, you know, we've had the challenges
[2:49] Speaker 1: with weather once again, unfortunately.
[2:51] Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of a running joke
[2:54] Speaker 1: out there. What's a normal year anymore?
[2:57] Speaker 1: Because there's no such thing.
[2:59] Speaker 1: But, you know, we're really starting to
[3:02] Speaker 1: see the resiliency in the programs.
[3:05] Speaker 1: Of course, a lot of the growers that
[3:08] Speaker 1: I started off with four years ago when
[3:12] Speaker 1: I started with AEA are now maturing into
[3:15] Speaker 1: what we we think of as a full
[3:19] Speaker 1: program and seeing those transitions on
[3:21] Speaker 1: their farm and that's resulting in
[3:24] Speaker 1: profits. Really one of the biggest
[3:26] Speaker 1: highlights for me this year is looking at
[3:30] Speaker 1: one of those growers that I started with
[3:33] Speaker 1: and he's got the best corn crop he's
[3:37] Speaker 1: had since the first year that he came
[3:40] Speaker 1: to me.
[3:42] Speaker 1: We haven't gotten in the field yet to tell
[3:45] Speaker 1: you what the yields are but just looking
[3:49] Speaker 1: at it looks fantastic.
[3:50] Speaker 1: But then he sent me a text yesterday that
[3:54] Speaker 1: his break even on soybeans is 58 bushels
[3:57] Speaker 1: and he's currently averaging well above 80
[4:00] Speaker 1: with several spots that didn't get drowned
[4:03] Speaker 1: out pushing 100. So, you know, minimum
[4:06] Speaker 1: inputs that that's great to hear.
[4:08] Speaker 1: And, you know, looking at new things that
[4:11] Speaker 1: AEA has introduced into the market, and I
[4:15] Speaker 1: always refer to Phil Blark as Little John,
[4:18] Speaker 1: because everyone wants to have you as
[4:21] Speaker 1: their consultant, as you well know, John,
[4:24] Speaker 1: but I'll happily be Robin Hood in that
[4:27] Speaker 1: context.
[4:28] Speaker 1: But Fieldmark's allowing you know those
[4:31] Speaker 1: conversations with the way that AI is
[4:34] Speaker 1: trained and you know, I think the big
[4:37] Speaker 1: success for this particular grower is he
[4:40] Speaker 1: doesn't have to listen to me all the
[4:43] Speaker 1: time anymore and it allows him to be
[4:47] Speaker 1: more efficient, it allows me as an
[4:50] Speaker 1: agronomist to be more efficient because
[4:52] Speaker 1: he's already researched what he's wanting
[4:55] Speaker 1: to talk about. A lot of times he's
[4:58] Speaker 1: already acted on Those things based off of
[5:02] Speaker 1: field law. Already acted on those things
[5:05] Speaker 1: based off a field lark.
[5:07] Speaker 1: But when he really has an important
[5:10] Speaker 1: question, he's coming to me and getting
[5:13] Speaker 1: clarification, and we're having really
[5:15] Speaker 1: good conversations.
[5:16] Speaker 1: But he's a perfect example of how field
[5:19] Speaker 1: lark and the AI tool is really being
[5:23] Speaker 1: powerful in allowing growers to have a non
[5:26] Speaker 1: pushy sales conversation because that's
[5:28] Speaker 1: what a lot of growers talk about, they
[5:31] Speaker 1: don't.
[5:33] Speaker 1: Want to have an agronomist that's also
[5:36] Speaker 1: selling product. And I'm like, well, go to
[5:39] Speaker 1: Field Lark. And this is proving with
[5:42] Speaker 1: someone that I'm working with as an
[5:45] Speaker 1: agronomist as well that they've got a
[5:49] Speaker 1: powerful tool to guide them in their
[5:52] Speaker 1: journey. You know, Field Lark, I've had
[5:55] Speaker 1: some gifts that I'm very grateful for
[5:58] Speaker 1: being able to read rapidly and retain a
[6:01] Speaker 1: lot and connect seemingly disparate dots.
[6:04] Speaker 1: And tie things together.
[6:06] Speaker 1: And I'm very grateful for that.
[6:08] Speaker 1: But one of the things that I've initially
[6:12] Speaker 1: was very concerned about is how does our
[6:15] Speaker 1: use of AI reduce our capacity for critical
[6:19] Speaker 1: thought and for analysis and for research
[6:22] Speaker 1: and discovery? Like, what are the skills
[6:25] Speaker 1: that we might lose if we start using AI
[6:28] Speaker 1: intensively? It's a little bit like Google
[6:31] Speaker 1: Maps. I mean, everyone or people used to
[6:34] Speaker 1: have varying degrees of being able to
[6:37] Speaker 1: navigate and and knowing the roads in a
[6:40] Speaker 1: certain region. And then Google Maps came
[6:43] Speaker 1: along. And a lot of that skill atrophied
[6:46] Speaker 1: for a lot of people, particularly the
[6:49] Speaker 1: people who never had in the first place
[6:52] Speaker 1: and you just learned Google Maps from the
[6:55] Speaker 1: very beginning and it's, I'm using Google
[6:58] Speaker 1: Maps but there's other maps apps as well
[7:01] Speaker 1: but navigation apps.
[7:02] Speaker 1: But what happened is a lot of people never
[7:05] Speaker 1: developed and other people who had
[7:08] Speaker 1: developed the skill kind of lost the skill
[7:11] Speaker 1: to be able to navigate very well.
[7:14] Speaker 1: And what is what is the version of that
[7:17] Speaker 1: for a so i do think there is my,
[7:21] Speaker 1: as I've been thinking about this and
[7:23] Speaker 1: playing around with AI and with field art
[7:26] Speaker 1: in particular, along with the other tools
[7:29] Speaker 1: that I'm using, the one thing that I've
[7:32] Speaker 1: found is that it allows me to accelerate
[7:35] Speaker 1: the learning and go deeper with discovery
[7:38] Speaker 1: faster. There have been people who have
[7:41] Speaker 1: said that, well, and my own experience as
[7:44] Speaker 1: well has been. You start reading about a
[7:48] Speaker 1: specific topic in white papers, let's say.
[7:50] Speaker 1: You want to learn about disease
[7:53] Speaker 1: suppressive soil, and you start reading
[7:55] Speaker 1: about disease suppressive soil, and you
[7:58] Speaker 1: follow the bibliography, the citations,
[8:00] Speaker 1: the references. And invariably in that
[8:02] Speaker 1: process, you learn things that are, you
[8:05] Speaker 1: connect other dots.
[8:06] Speaker 1: You learn things that are tangentially
[8:08] Speaker 1: related to other problems trying to solve.
[8:11] Speaker 1: That's been very true for me.
[8:14] Speaker 1: And at first, I was concerned that if you
[8:17] Speaker 1: use AI a lot, then you might lose some
[8:21] Speaker 1: of that. But that hasn't been the case for
[8:24] Speaker 1: me. It's different.
[8:26] Speaker 1: It's not the same.
[8:27] Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that it is the same.
[8:30] Speaker 1: But I've started asking this question.
[8:33] Speaker 1: And because of the way Fieldork is
[8:36] Speaker 1: designed in the background, I have this
[8:39] Speaker 1: one particular problem.
[8:40] Speaker 1: I have this one particular prompt that
[8:43] Speaker 1: I've been using that I'm just absolutely
[8:45] Speaker 1: delighted by. So I will start by.
[8:48] Speaker 1: I have a specific problem, one challenge
[8:51] Speaker 1: that I was working on, or a question that
[8:55] Speaker 1: was perplexing me just recently is why is
[8:58] Speaker 1: it that foxtail is so much more virulent
[9:01] Speaker 1: in bean fields than it is in cornfields or
[9:05] Speaker 1: in other crops?
[9:06] Speaker 1: This is particularly, and I'm referring,
[9:08] Speaker 1: of course, to the To organic fields that
[9:11] Speaker 1: don't have herbicides.
[9:12] Speaker 1: And so instead of just asking Fieldlark.
[9:15] Speaker 1: And so, instead of just asking Field Lark
[9:17] Speaker 1: that question, I said I gave it the
[9:20] Speaker 1: prompt, and I should actually have
[9:22] Speaker 1: prepared this. But I said, "I want to
[9:25] Speaker 1: understand the root causes of why are why
[9:28] Speaker 1: is foxtail so virulent in soybeans
[9:30] Speaker 1: compared to other ecosystems?" Help me
[9:32] Speaker 1: develop a prompt that researches this
[9:34] Speaker 1: problem from all dimensions.
[9:36] Speaker 1: Looks at it from all dimensions, and so
[9:38] Speaker 1: instead of just asking the question.
[9:40] Speaker 1: I first asked it to help me develop a
[9:44] Speaker 1: prompt. And so it develops this literally
[9:46] Speaker 1: two pages long prompt of looking at all
[9:49] Speaker 1: the dimensions, looking at soil redox and
[9:52] Speaker 1: soil carbon characteristics and moisture
[9:54] Speaker 1: characteristics and soil compaction.
[9:56] Speaker 1: It had, it developed a list of, I think,
[9:59] Speaker 1: 19 different dimensions of angles and
[10:01] Speaker 1: perspectives that you could look at this
[10:04] Speaker 1: problem. And then I said, all right, go
[10:07] Speaker 1: ahead execute that prompt.
[10:09] Speaker 1: And I get this incredible report back that
[10:12] Speaker 1: is, must have been between 25 and 30 pages
[10:15] Speaker 1: long. That is so detailed and it ties in
[10:19] Speaker 1: all of these various pieces.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Like, this is what triggers foxtail seeds
[10:24] Speaker 1: to germinate. This is the depth at which
[10:27] Speaker 1: they germinate. These are the oxygen
[10:29] Speaker 1: requirements for them to germinate.
[10:31] Speaker 1: This is what happens when you change these
[10:34] Speaker 1: oxygen parameters.
[10:35] Speaker 1: This is what happens when you change the
[10:38] Speaker 1: carbon monoxide concentration.
[10:39] Speaker 1: Here are the various triggers that trigger
[10:42] Speaker 1: germination. And on and on it went.
[10:45] Speaker 1: It was this incredible, incredible detail
[10:48] Speaker 1: and depth around foxtail that I've studied
[10:51] Speaker 1: foxtail. This is not the first time I've
[10:54] Speaker 1: had a conversation with AI about foxtail,
[10:57] Speaker 1: just to be clear. And I've read a
[11:01] Speaker 1: lot about foxtail.
[11:02] Speaker 1: 70% of the information that was there, I
[11:05] Speaker 1: had never heard of before.
[11:08] Speaker 1: It was incredible and so anyway I have
[11:11] Speaker 1: a lot of I've been having a lot
[11:14] Speaker 1: of fun with with it in that way
[11:18] Speaker 1: and so I offered that as as an
[11:21] Speaker 1: entirely too long a prelude to ask you
[11:25] Speaker 1: the question how have you been using field
[11:28] Speaker 1: lark in in ways. That what has excited you
[11:32] Speaker 1: the most about it what what have you found
[11:35] Speaker 1: to be most useful well before I answer
[11:38] Speaker 1: that John I want to touch on something
[11:41] Speaker 1: that you talked about with you know does
[11:44] Speaker 1: using a about with, you know, does using
[11:47] Speaker 1: AI essentially make us less knowledgeable?
[11:49] Speaker 1: I'll put it nicely since this is going on
[11:52] Speaker 1: air, but you know, I look at my eighth
[11:56] Speaker 1: grade algebra teacher, and well, really
[11:58] Speaker 1: any math class for that matter, and you
[12:01] Speaker 1: know, the first thing they tell you is
[12:04] Speaker 1: we're going to learn how to do math before
[12:07] Speaker 1: we use a calculator, and I think you could
[12:10] Speaker 1: look at AI.
[12:13] Speaker 1: Especially in the Sciences, the way that
[12:16] Speaker 1: we're using it to help growers succeed,
[12:19] Speaker 1: and the way growers are using it as
[12:23] Speaker 1: well to help themselves on the farm.
[12:26] Speaker 1: We've got that foundational knowledge,
[12:28] Speaker 1: whether that be from our own experiences
[12:31] Speaker 1: on the farm or through agronomy degrees
[12:34] Speaker 1: and whatnot. So we've got that foundation
[12:38] Speaker 1: where we know where we're starting at, we
[12:41] Speaker 1: know when AI may be telling us something
[12:45] Speaker 1: that. Is not necessarily the route we want
[12:48] Speaker 1: it to take us. And essentially, the way
[12:52] Speaker 1: I'm using AI as a result is as
[12:56] Speaker 1: an advisor to me because the number one
[12:59] Speaker 1: issue, I think, when you look at precision
[13:03] Speaker 1: agriculture right now is that there's so
[13:06] Speaker 1: much data that farmers are being bombarded
[13:09] Speaker 1: with, whether it be from aerial imagery,
[13:12] Speaker 1: you know, all the different op centers
[13:15] Speaker 1: even weather data for that matter.
[13:18] Speaker 1: That data is only good if you can
[13:22] Speaker 1: get it analyzed. So the way that I'm
[13:25] Speaker 1: using AI in general, because I do use
[13:29] Speaker 1: Clawed and a few other tools in addition
[13:33] Speaker 1: to FieldLark, is to pull all of that
[13:36] Speaker 1: data into one place.
[13:38] Speaker 1: And that way I have I've got a
[13:42] Speaker 1: better, more concise report that I can
[13:45] Speaker 1: then go over with the grower and help
[13:48] Speaker 1: them find areas. That, well, not just
[13:51] Speaker 1: areas, but help find how that data
[13:54] Speaker 1: correlates into giving them answers for
[13:57] Speaker 1: the issues that they're bringing to me.
[14:00] Speaker 1: I think one good example of that would be
[14:03] Speaker 1: from Louisiana this year, where we had
[14:06] Speaker 1: some disease come into Bermuda grass that
[14:09] Speaker 1: was being grown for hay.
[14:11] Speaker 1: And by the time we entered the picture and
[14:15] Speaker 1: by the time we entered the pictures, the
[14:18] Speaker 1: soil test data, the sap data, the comments
[14:21] Speaker 1: that were coming in from the grower, it
[14:25] Speaker 1: gave us a pretty good picture of what was
[14:28] Speaker 1: happening there. And now we've got a game
[14:32] Speaker 1: plan on how we're going to get that
[14:35] Speaker 1: corrected. One of the first things we did
[14:38] Speaker 1: was look at bulk potassium applications,
[14:41] Speaker 1: so that's been done.
[14:42] Speaker 1: And we'll just continue to build biology,
[14:45] Speaker 1: which was one of the main things that all
[14:49] Speaker 1: of the AI was coming back on you know,
[14:53] Speaker 1: correct some of those bulk amendments and
[14:56] Speaker 1: then get continue to build on biology.
[14:58] Speaker 1: Which, at the end of the day, that's
[15:02] Speaker 1: really what we're doing for solutions on a
[15:05] Speaker 1: lot of farms. But you know, we were able
[15:08] Speaker 1: to really dive into the specifics there.
[15:11] Speaker 1: You know, I've constantly been thinking
[15:13] Speaker 1: about as we've developed Field Lark, and
[15:16] Speaker 1: it's now a year ago that we released it,
[15:19] Speaker 1: a little bit over a year ago.
[15:22] Speaker 1: I've constantly been thinking about the
[15:24] Speaker 1: ethics and the morality and the philosophy
[15:27] Speaker 1: of AI as a tool. How should we be
[15:31] Speaker 1: thinking about this?
[15:32] Speaker 1: How should we be using it?
[15:34] Speaker 1: Where is wisdom in this process?
[15:37] Speaker 1: And I wrote an article on this topic was
[15:40] Speaker 1: published in AgFunder News and I think
[15:43] Speaker 1: perhaps a couple of other places.
[15:46] Speaker 1: One of the things that I spoke about was
[15:49] Speaker 1: that so frequently we are very talented
[15:52] Speaker 1: tool users and one of the kind of the
[15:55] Speaker 1: double-edged swords of our talents as tool
[15:58] Speaker 1: users is that we attend to adopt the
[16:01] Speaker 1: consciousness of tool.
[16:02] Speaker 1: And what I mean by that Is we tend to
[16:06] Speaker 1: shape the task that we want to get done to
[16:09] Speaker 1: the tools capabilities instead of being
[16:12] Speaker 1: tool agnostic. So for example if you have
[16:15] Speaker 1: an orchard that needs pruned and if you
[16:18] Speaker 1: give someone a small handheld a single
[16:20] Speaker 1: hand chainsaw versus a pruning loppers you
[16:23] Speaker 1: will end up with trees that are pruned
[16:26] Speaker 1: very differently even though the user has
[16:28] Speaker 1: the exact same might be the same person
[16:31] Speaker 1: but they have a different tool and a tool
[16:35] Speaker 1: that has great But they have a different
[16:38] Speaker 1: tool. And a tool that has greater
[16:40] Speaker 1: capabilities and capacity.
[16:41] Speaker 1: It's just, it's going to get used
[16:44] Speaker 1: differently. Similarly, if you ask someone
[16:46] Speaker 1: to go clear land with a chainsaw versus a
[16:50] Speaker 1: bulldozer, you get a very different
[16:52] Speaker 1: result. And maybe a chainsaw versus a
[16:54] Speaker 1: bulldozer, let's say you use a skid steer
[16:57] Speaker 1: versus a bulldozer, just different
[16:59] Speaker 1: machines will produce different outcomes,
[17:01] Speaker 1: even though you can have the exact same
[17:04] Speaker 1: original vision in mind.
[17:07] Speaker 1: And as I've been thinking about this with
[17:10] Speaker 1: Field Lark, where are the places, and
[17:13] Speaker 1: what's the proper way of thinking about
[17:16] Speaker 1: the optimal use? Because so often, then,
[17:18] Speaker 1: what happens, what has happened in recent
[17:21] Speaker 1: history, is that the tools are designed to
[17:24] Speaker 1: replace people instead of being designed
[17:27] Speaker 1: to make people better.
[17:28] Speaker 1: And I'm of the persuasion that we need
[17:32] Speaker 1: more hearts and hands in the landscape,
[17:35] Speaker 1: that we need more farmers who care deeply
[17:38] Speaker 1: about the land and the part of creation
[17:41] Speaker 1: that they are stewarding.
[17:43] Speaker 1: And when you look at it from that
[17:46] Speaker 1: perspective, you ask the question well,
[17:48] Speaker 1: how can technology help make people
[17:51] Speaker 1: better, not replace them, but make people
[17:53] Speaker 1: better? And something that you said about
[17:57] Speaker 1: data interpretation, I think one of the
[18:00] Speaker 1: foundational aspects of being a good
[18:03] Speaker 1: steward is pattern recognition.
[18:05] Speaker 1: If we spend time in the field observing
[18:08] Speaker 1: livestock grazing, observing wildlife
[18:10] Speaker 1: patterns, observing the seasons, as we
[18:13] Speaker 1: gain perspective and we gain experience,
[18:16] Speaker 1: one of the foundational aspects of being a
[18:20] Speaker 1: good steward, I think, is being good at
[18:24] Speaker 1: recognizing patterns and recognizing.
[18:25] Speaker 1: That, oh, I made this change to the
[18:29] Speaker 1: pattern over there and that manifested
[18:32] Speaker 1: itself in this way.
[18:34] Speaker 1: I started grazing cattle differently and
[18:37] Speaker 1: now we have different plant populations
[18:39] Speaker 1: and we have different insect populations
[18:42] Speaker 1: because of changes in grazing management.
[18:45] Speaker 1: Those are one example of pattern
[18:48] Speaker 1: recognition and there are many others.
[18:51] Speaker 1: But when we start looking at data, whether
[18:54] Speaker 1: that is aerial imagery, as you pointed out
[18:58] Speaker 1: Or whether it is just soil analysis data
[19:02] Speaker 1: or plant tissue analysis data or sap
[19:05] Speaker 1: analysis data, when we start looking at
[19:09] Speaker 1: spreadsheets with large amounts of data on
[19:12] Speaker 1: it, it is a challenge for most people
[19:16] Speaker 1: to develop a skill at pattern recognition
[19:19] Speaker 1: in data, in quite in that way.
[19:22] Speaker 1: You have to really spend time with it, you
[19:26] Speaker 1: have to really invest in it, and learn how
[19:29] Speaker 1: to manipulate data, how to analyze it, how
[19:32] Speaker 1: to look at it in different ways.
[19:34] Speaker 1: And this is, I think, one of the Strengths
[19:37] Speaker 1: of AI is that it facilitates pattern
[19:40] Speaker 1: recognition in data in much the same way
[19:43] Speaker 1: that we as stewards can have pattern
[19:45] Speaker 1: recognition in the landscape.
[19:47] Speaker 1: And I think leaning into that, thinking
[19:49] Speaker 1: about it, using it as a tool for that
[19:52] Speaker 1: purpose, that's where you think about all
[19:55] Speaker 1: the significant insights that have emerged
[19:57] Speaker 1: from our team here at AEA in the last year
[20:01] Speaker 1: and we are using these tools To analyze
[20:04] Speaker 1: all this data for patterns.
[20:05] Speaker 1: We're saying, okay, what is the pattern
[20:08] Speaker 1: with calcium absorption over the course of
[20:10] Speaker 1: the season? And we're able to see these
[20:13] Speaker 1: fascinating patterns emerge where we see
[20:15] Speaker 1: seasonal calcium trends, seasonal trace
[20:17] Speaker 1: mineral trends. We see all of these
[20:20] Speaker 1: patterns emerge that have been there in
[20:23] Speaker 1: the data all along, but it just took
[20:27] Speaker 1: 50 times more effort to draw them out
[20:30] Speaker 1: and to see them than it now does.
[20:34] Speaker 1: That's a good point.
[20:36] Speaker 1: And you know, when you're looking at
[20:39] Speaker 1: multiple years of data, even single years
[20:42] Speaker 1: worth of data, it can quickly become
[20:45] Speaker 1: overwhelming depending on how many sap
[20:48] Speaker 1: samples and other things were taken that
[20:51] Speaker 1: we're trying to bring together and look
[20:54] Speaker 1: at. And one of the things that's really
[20:57] Speaker 1: helped me as an agronomist, and it's
[21:00] Speaker 1: something that's coming up in
[21:03] Speaker 1: conversations too with our distribution
[21:05] Speaker 1: network as I'm talking to dealers about
[21:08] Speaker 1: how they want to integrate FieldLark into
[21:11] Speaker 1: their customer base and whatnot.
[21:14] Speaker 1: But the speed of being able to look
[21:18] Speaker 1: at complex data is probably the number one
[21:21] Speaker 1: aspect that's helped me in my career since
[21:25] Speaker 1: starting to adopt more usage of AI in
[21:28] Speaker 1: general. I would say initially I had some
[21:32] Speaker 1: of those thoughts of, well, shoot, if this
[21:35] Speaker 1: becomes used too much, then all of our
[21:39] Speaker 1: jobs are going to be at risk, which
[21:43] Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, that's definitely
[21:46] Speaker 1: the case for certain parts of industry as
[21:49] Speaker 1: a whole, not just the ag industry.
[21:52] Speaker 1: But when you're looking at it from a
[21:56] Speaker 1: purely an agronomist's standpoint, point
[21:58] Speaker 1: and I would say as a consultant standpoint
[22:02] Speaker 1: and as well, the more efficient we can
[22:05] Speaker 1: be with our time, the quicker we can
[22:09] Speaker 1: find those relationships and whatever type
[22:12] Speaker 1: of data we're looking at, and be able
[22:15] Speaker 1: to turn around that information in a
[22:18] Speaker 1: concrete plan of action to the end user.
[22:23] Speaker 1: You know, that's where everyone starts to
[22:25] Speaker 1: benefit because, as we know, you know, the
[22:28] Speaker 1: weather doesn't wait on us to get a sap
[22:31] Speaker 1: sample back that has been sitting there
[22:34] Speaker 1: for too long, waiting on analysis.
[22:36] Speaker 1: And you just, you've got to have that
[22:39] Speaker 1: quick turnaround to where a grower, in our
[22:42] Speaker 1: case, can make a timely decision and make
[22:44] Speaker 1: a timely application if that's what
[22:47] Speaker 1: they're doing. So at the end of the day,
[22:50] Speaker 1: you know, everything comes back to profit
[22:52] Speaker 1: at the end of the day for anybody.
[22:55] Speaker 1: I always joke with my wife who works for
[22:58] Speaker 1: the state and doesn't have a sales title
[23:01] Speaker 1: in her job, but I'm like, everything you
[23:04] Speaker 1: do is sales. You know, farmers are doing
[23:07] Speaker 1: sales with the crop that they're growing.
[23:10] Speaker 1: If it's not good quality, they're not
[23:12] Speaker 1: getting to sell it.
[23:13] Speaker 1: Unfortunately, of course, farmers don't
[23:15] Speaker 1: get to be as active in choosing where it
[23:18] Speaker 1: goes, but that's a whole 'nother
[23:21] Speaker 1: discussion. But, you know, it's just that,
[23:24] Speaker 1: ability of being able to utilize AI to
[23:28] Speaker 1: be more efficient.
[23:29] Speaker 1: That has really stood out to me.
[23:32] Speaker 1: And it's something that dealers are
[23:35] Speaker 1: saying, hey, how can we get
[23:37] Speaker 1: recommendations on doing SAP tests back to
[23:40] Speaker 1: a grower quicker than what we've been
[23:44] Speaker 1: doing with our current tissue analysis
[23:46] Speaker 1: protocols? So they're seeing the potential
[23:49] Speaker 1: there as well. Yeah.
[23:51] Speaker 1: Timeliness you Will.
[23:52] Speaker 1: Yeah. So timeliness, there's more that we
[23:55] Speaker 1: could talk about AI and Field Lark, but
[23:59] Speaker 1: for all of our listeners, just go online,
[24:02] Speaker 1: check it out, play around with it.
[24:05] Speaker 1: I think you will be quite delighted.
[24:08] Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with Field Lark, it
[24:12] Speaker 1: is a regenerative agronomist AI that has
[24:15] Speaker 1: been trained on all of our data and
[24:19] Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of written resources
[24:21] Speaker 1: that are specific to agriculture and to A
[24:25] Speaker 1: more regenerative paradigm and approach to
[24:27] Speaker 1: agriculture. But on the timeliness topic,
[24:30] Speaker 1: Jeff, you just, you triggered another
[24:33] Speaker 1: thought for me, another topic that I
[24:36] Speaker 1: wanted to talk about.
[24:38] Speaker 1: I've been waiting for over a decade,
[24:41] Speaker 1: almost 15 years, 2010, 2011, we first
[24:44] Speaker 1: started having conversations with sensor
[24:46] Speaker 1: technicians who were doing describing the
[24:49] Speaker 1: emerging capability of developing
[24:50] Speaker 1: miniaturized sensors, and they postulated
[24:53] Speaker 1: at that time, they expected that within
[24:56] Speaker 1: five to seven years, we would have sensors
[24:59] Speaker 1: that could go into the field and measure
[25:03] Speaker 1: a tissue analysis in the field.
[25:05] Speaker 1: And of course we have NIR and we've got
[25:08] Speaker 1: different sensors that have been developed
[25:10] Speaker 1: over the years, but none of them have
[25:13] Speaker 1: really fulfilled the promise or the vision
[25:15] Speaker 1: of what I had originally envisioned and
[25:18] Speaker 1: hoped for as being able to measure A
[25:20] Speaker 1: complete mineral profile accurately, not
[25:22] Speaker 1: just three nutrients or half a dozen or
[25:24] Speaker 1: even just a dozen.
[25:26] Speaker 1: We need a thorough and detailed mineral
[25:28] Speaker 1: profile. We need to be able to measure
[25:31] Speaker 1: compounds such as nitrates and ammonium
[25:33] Speaker 1: and sugar and various forms of
[25:35] Speaker 1: carbohydrates. We need to measure all
[25:37] Speaker 1: those separately. So, this has been
[25:39] Speaker 1: something I've been wanting for a long
[25:41] Speaker 1: time. And we've been working with the
[25:43] Speaker 1: CropTix team over the last couple of
[25:45] Speaker 1: years. And it's been, you know, I've
[25:48] Speaker 1: already waited. A decade and a half, so
[25:50] Speaker 1: I'm naturally quite impatient.
[25:52] Speaker 1: I want this out in the field, but we've
[25:55] Speaker 1: had it now out in the field for a couple
[25:58] Speaker 1: of crops this last year.
[26:00] Speaker 1: Have you had the chance to play with it at
[26:03] Speaker 1: all or to work with it?
[26:05] Speaker 1: Have any of your growers been working with
[26:07] Speaker 1: it? So I've been involved in some of the
[26:10] Speaker 1: data calibration with CropDix since last
[26:12] Speaker 1: year, specifically on cotton, even though
[26:14] Speaker 1: we do have a little bit of citrus here in
[26:18] Speaker 1: South Texas, it's a dying industry,
[26:20] Speaker 1: unfortunately, for a variety of reasons,
[26:22] Speaker 1: but that's a whole nother conversation as
[26:24] Speaker 1: well.
[26:25] Speaker 1: But this year, I've had the privilege of
[26:28] Speaker 1: being able to get out in the field with
[26:32] Speaker 1: the croptics team and see how they're
[26:35] Speaker 1: using it firsthand on corn specifically,
[26:37] Speaker 1: which corn and soybeans are hopefully
[26:40] Speaker 1: going to be ready to go this coming year.
[26:44] Speaker 1: I believe that's all but done for the most
[26:47] Speaker 1: part. But getting to do live demos in corn
[26:51] Speaker 1: here in late August was really exciting to
[26:55] Speaker 1: see how farmers are getting excited about
[26:57] Speaker 1: the technology because, number one, it
[27:00] Speaker 1: takes fewer leaves to be sampled and send
[27:03] Speaker 1: in. Plus, you don't necessarily have to
[27:06] Speaker 1: send them in to crop health labs like
[27:10] Speaker 1: we're currently doing.
[27:11] Speaker 1: And then, of course, get that analyzed by
[27:14] Speaker 1: NOVA. But you know, we're going from a
[27:17] Speaker 1: current situation where you know, let's
[27:20] Speaker 1: say seven days is the average on when
[27:23] Speaker 1: we're getting data back from the day that
[27:27] Speaker 1: we sample to being able to get that result
[27:30] Speaker 1: literally within minutes of when you
[27:33] Speaker 1: sample, depending on, of course, if you've
[27:36] Speaker 1: got the unit sitting right there next to
[27:39] Speaker 1: you. But what I had growers do.
[27:42] Speaker 1: That I knew were coming to two different
[27:45] Speaker 1: field events was to take samples that
[27:48] Speaker 1: morning and bring them to the field or
[27:52] Speaker 1: bring them to the grower event.
[27:54] Speaker 1: And I mean, it was in the afternoon.
[27:58] Speaker 1: So, you know, some of the we may not
[28:01] Speaker 1: have gotten our morning sample done
[28:04] Speaker 1: specifically like we would want to in a
[28:07] Speaker 1: true commercial setting, but it proved the
[28:10] Speaker 1: point in the fact that, you know, here we
[28:13] Speaker 1: are at a grower event, CropTix does their
[28:17] Speaker 1: presentation and starts sampling the
[28:19] Speaker 1: leaves when I go up and start going
[28:22] Speaker 1: through some slides.
[28:23] Speaker 1: I don't even get halfway through the
[28:26] Speaker 1: slides and they're like, "Hey, we're
[28:28] Speaker 1: done." On average, they're saying six
[28:31] Speaker 1: minutes a sample, or ten minutes I believe
[28:34] Speaker 1: it is actually. Six samples in an hour.
[28:37] Speaker 1: You can get through quite a few SAP
[28:40] Speaker 1: results in that time and start mixing up.
[28:44] Speaker 1: What needs to go to the field.
[28:46] Speaker 1: You know, Shelly had her video on social
[28:50] Speaker 1: media with citrus that I think she did a
[28:53] Speaker 1: three minute turnaround to mix up
[28:56] Speaker 1: everything.
[28:57] Speaker 1: So, when you're talking about that quick
[28:59] Speaker 1: turnaround and then pairing, you know,
[29:01] Speaker 1: I'll go back to field lark, you know,
[29:04] Speaker 1: taking those results and asking field
[29:06] Speaker 1: lark, what in the world do I need to do
[29:09] Speaker 1: with this if you don't have an agronomist
[29:12] Speaker 1: that's analyzing for you?
[29:13] Speaker 1: You know, you're ready to go that's
[29:16] Speaker 1: analyzing for you, you're ready to go
[29:18] Speaker 1: definitely within that same day.
[29:20] Speaker 1: And I think the actual official turnaround
[29:22] Speaker 1: time that CropTix gives is 24 to 48 hours.
[29:25] Speaker 1: So that beats any lab turnaround time by a
[29:28] Speaker 1: big margin. Yeah. Yeah.
[29:30] Speaker 1: And at some point, I'm sure listeners to
[29:32] Speaker 1: the podcast will have lots of questions
[29:35] Speaker 1: about, well, what is CropTix and how does
[29:37] Speaker 1: it compare with other technologies in the
[29:40] Speaker 1: field. I mean, there are now, as Since
[29:42] Speaker 1: we've made initial investments in crop
[29:44] Speaker 1: ticks and have been collaborating with
[29:46] Speaker 1: them on the research and the calibration
[29:49] Speaker 1: side, there've been, I don't know the
[29:51] Speaker 1: exact number, three or four, at least,
[29:53] Speaker 1: perhaps more different units that have
[29:55] Speaker 1: been developed and have been raised in the
[29:58] Speaker 1: marketplace. And every time one goes out,
[30:00] Speaker 1: we have to, we take a serious look at it
[30:03] Speaker 1: and say, all right, is it, if someone else
[30:06] Speaker 1: is producing something better, then let's
[30:08] Speaker 1: go with that. Let's use that.
[30:10] Speaker 1: And we can Let's go with that.
[30:12] Speaker 1: Let's use that. And we could have at some
[30:15] Speaker 1: point, we'll get into a whole conversation
[30:18] Speaker 1: around the merits of various technologies.
[30:20] Speaker 1: But as of this point, none of the other
[30:23] Speaker 1: devices that in the marketplace are that
[30:25] Speaker 1: we are aware of and we've done, we
[30:27] Speaker 1: continue to pay very close attention to
[30:30] Speaker 1: everything that's out there.
[30:31] Speaker 1: Nothing that's out there has the breadth
[30:34] Speaker 1: of compounds and elements that it is
[30:36] Speaker 1: measuring, that we are measuring, and none
[30:39] Speaker 1: of them has the accuracy.
[30:41] Speaker 1: Just what the CropTix team has developed
[30:43] Speaker 1: is really special in that at specific
[30:46] Speaker 1: locations on the leaf, it
[30:48] Speaker 1: non-destructively, you don't have to
[30:49] Speaker 1: damage the leaf in any way, but it shines
[30:53] Speaker 1: through the leaf and it measures
[30:55] Speaker 1: everything in its path.
[30:56] Speaker 1: And actually, it's not quite and I should
[30:59] Speaker 1: actually, it's not quite entirely
[31:01] Speaker 1: accurate. I shouldn't say that it shines
[31:04] Speaker 1: through the leaf, but it doesn't, it
[31:06] Speaker 1: measures deeper than the surface.
[31:08] Speaker 1: I forget now what the exact depth is, but
[31:12] Speaker 1: the depth is deep enough that it goes
[31:15] Speaker 1: through most leaves.
[31:16] Speaker 1: It would have to be quite a thick leaf or
[31:19] Speaker 1: stem for it to not go through.
[31:22] Speaker 1: And so the accuracy and the consistency is
[31:25] Speaker 1: just, it's very different from anything
[31:27] Speaker 1: else that we've observed or that we're
[31:30] Speaker 1: aware of. And that's one of the reasons
[31:33] Speaker 1: why we continue to invest in it and why
[31:36] Speaker 1: I'm excited about it.
[31:37] Speaker 1: So I really think that.
[31:39] Speaker 1: I'm sure lots of people again, you can do
[31:43] Speaker 1: some digging and look at what is on the
[31:46] Speaker 1: AEA website, but the crop tick sensors,
[31:49] Speaker 1: they're not inexpensive.
[31:50] Speaker 1: They're expensive to manufacture.
[31:51] Speaker 1: And so it's not a device for a single
[31:54] Speaker 1: grower. It is a device for a group of
[31:57] Speaker 1: growers in a certain region to share or
[32:00] Speaker 1: for an agronomist to use.
[32:02] Speaker 1: That's the only way it's going to make
[32:05] Speaker 1: sense, because given the number of the
[32:07] Speaker 1: volume of samples that need to be run
[32:10] Speaker 1: through it to justify it.
[32:12] Speaker 1: But when you think about an analysis
[32:14] Speaker 1: turnaround In 24 hours that is thorough
[32:17] Speaker 1: and detailed and accurate that you can
[32:19] Speaker 1: have confidence in, it's like, oh my, that
[32:22] Speaker 1: gives me goosebumps.
[32:23] Speaker 1: No, for sure. And the great thing is
[32:26] Speaker 1: visiting our dealers across the Midwest
[32:28] Speaker 1: there in late August, there's tons of
[32:30] Speaker 1: interest. We've had tons of conversations
[32:32] Speaker 1: since then. So I'm definitely excited to
[32:35] Speaker 1: see where those units are are going to be
[32:38] Speaker 1: deployed and how they're going to be
[32:41] Speaker 1: utilized this year.
[32:42] Speaker 1: Still a lot of questions.
[32:43] Speaker 1: I don't want to mislead those listening
[32:46] Speaker 1: that we've got all the answers on what
[32:49] Speaker 1: that model is going to look like come
[32:52] Speaker 1: March and April, but someone out there is
[32:54] Speaker 1: going to have some units.
[32:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, several. Someone, so more than
[32:58] Speaker 1: several. Yeah, good.
[32:59] Speaker 1: So you mentioned the various grower events
[33:02] Speaker 1: that you've been this summer.
[33:04] Speaker 1: You've traveled to quite a few of those
[33:06] Speaker 1: across the country.
[33:08] Speaker 1: I know that you were the one at Bass
[33:11] Speaker 1: Hybrids, and I just.
[33:12] Speaker 1: You know, I over the last several months,
[33:15] Speaker 1: I've stuck a little bit closer to home.
[33:18] Speaker 1: I travel very intensely during the winter
[33:20] Speaker 1: and I just, I needed a bit of bandwidth at
[33:24] Speaker 1: home for a while. And, but still when
[33:27] Speaker 1: I'm at home, I'm constantly, I'm just, I'm
[33:31] Speaker 1: getting text messages and I'm getting
[33:33] Speaker 1: photos. I just got another set of photos
[33:37] Speaker 1: from chili pepper production yesterday and
[33:40] Speaker 1: a couple of other crops.
[33:42] Speaker 1: Also giant pumpkins where the growers are
[33:45] Speaker 1: just ecstatic about the results that they
[33:48] Speaker 1: are seeing with pinyon.
[33:50] Speaker 1: And of course, pinyon is it's been a
[33:53] Speaker 1: pretty hot topic with our team and with
[33:56] Speaker 1: growers that we're working with because of
[33:59] Speaker 1: the results, but what have you seen in
[34:03] Speaker 1: the field? What are you hearing?
[34:06] Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything negative.
[34:08] Speaker 1: I think that's the number one thing that
[34:11] Speaker 1: stands out. It's a product that a lot
[34:15] Speaker 1: of growers, including ourselves as a
[34:17] Speaker 1: company, are still learning exactly how it
[34:20] Speaker 1: works on different crops.
[34:22] Speaker 1: But when you hear things from Growers
[34:25] Speaker 1: across multiple states that it's helping
[34:28] Speaker 1: them achieve disease control on all of the
[34:31] Speaker 1: common broadacre type diseases, and
[34:33] Speaker 1: they're seeing crop physiological benefits
[34:35] Speaker 1: at the same time that they can't explain,
[34:39] Speaker 1: that's what gets me excited as an
[34:42] Speaker 1: agronomist. Missouri dealer.
[34:43] Speaker 1: He specifically took me to the field
[34:47] Speaker 1: because he wanted to show me how they
[34:50] Speaker 1: were experiencing increased branching on
[34:52] Speaker 1: soybeans. You know, do we fully understand
[34:56] Speaker 1: the mechanism behind that, John?
[34:58] Speaker 1: That's probably a question I'll leave up
[35:01] Speaker 1: to you to answer right now in this
[35:05] Speaker 1: stage, but the main thing, you know, when
[35:08] Speaker 1: we're looking at corn, corn or beans
[35:12] Speaker 1: specifically in my case, it's doing,
[35:14] Speaker 1: pinion is doing as well as at a
[35:18] Speaker 1: minimum versus the Conventional fungicides
[35:20] Speaker 1: out there. A lot of growers I talk
[35:24] Speaker 1: to, and these are conventional, hardcore
[35:27] Speaker 1: conventional growers, we're not talking
[35:29] Speaker 1: about organic growers in this case,
[35:32] Speaker 1: they're wanting to do something that's not
[35:35] Speaker 1: as impactful on the environment as well as
[35:39] Speaker 1: in some cases they understand some of the
[35:42] Speaker 1: impacts on the health of themselves and
[35:45] Speaker 1: their families. So it's a variety of
[35:49] Speaker 1: why's. That are coming to the table in
[35:52] Speaker 1: these discussions, but the performance has
[35:55] Speaker 1: been absolutely positive across the board.
[35:58] Speaker 1: Well, we're right at the beginning of the
[36:01] Speaker 1: harvest season now, and so there's still a
[36:04] Speaker 1: lot of data collection that has to come
[36:07] Speaker 1: in. And I have tremendous respect for our
[36:10] Speaker 1: R&D team here at AEA.
[36:12] Speaker 1: I saw the spreadsheet of the number trials
[36:15] Speaker 1: that they are managing and the amount of
[36:18] Speaker 1: data that's being collected for the
[36:20] Speaker 1: relatively Small team that we have.
[36:23] Speaker 1: It looks eye-watering.
[36:24] Speaker 1: It looks very impressive.
[36:25] Speaker 1: So we have all of these anecdotes right
[36:28] Speaker 1: now. And some of them are going to remain
[36:32] Speaker 1: anecdotes because data collection hasn't
[36:34] Speaker 1: been optimal. And for some crops, we only
[36:37] Speaker 1: have a handful of different treatments.
[36:39] Speaker 1: But for some of these crops, I mean, you
[36:43] Speaker 1: look at the way pinyon has been used on
[36:46] Speaker 1: corn and soybeans some of the results that
[36:49] Speaker 1: we're getting. I just, what was it, I
[36:52] Speaker 1: think the beginning Of last week, I had a
[36:56] Speaker 1: 3000 acre corn operation in East Central
[36:58] Speaker 1: Illinois reach out and just say that they
[37:01] Speaker 1: treated, they took the risk of treating
[37:04] Speaker 1: most of their acres with pinyon and then
[37:07] Speaker 1: running, their treated control was a
[37:09] Speaker 1: fungicide. They treated the majority with
[37:12] Speaker 1: pinyon, but then they had to treat it
[37:15] Speaker 1: control with fungicide.
[37:16] Speaker 1: And they reported that Pinion, they had 5%
[37:20] Speaker 1: of the incidence of tar spot with the
[37:23] Speaker 1: pinion treatment that they did with the
[37:27] Speaker 1: conventional fungicide treatment.
[37:28] Speaker 1: Now, if that had been an untreated
[37:32] Speaker 1: control, that would have been awesome.
[37:34] Speaker 1: But having that against a treated control
[37:38] Speaker 1: is quite remarkable.
[37:39] Speaker 1: So the yield data still has to come
[37:43] Speaker 1: in from that. But we start organizing all
[37:47] Speaker 1: that data. And all of a sudden, we're
[37:51] Speaker 1: going to have now it's a single growing
[37:54] Speaker 1: season, but it's across a dozen or more
[37:58] Speaker 1: states. In the case of corn and soybeans,
[38:02] Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're going to have
[38:06] Speaker 1: 100 plus growing years of different
[38:09] Speaker 1: growers, different fields, blocks, and in
[38:11] Speaker 1: different environments, different regions.
[38:13] Speaker 1: And as of this point, it's quite
[38:17] Speaker 1: incredible to me that.
[38:19] Speaker 1: We have these treatments happening against
[38:21] Speaker 1: fungal diseases, bacterial diseases,
[38:23] Speaker 1: foliage diseases, and increasingly even
[38:26] Speaker 1: against root diseases with, as of this
[38:29] Speaker 1: point, some quite remarkable success rate.
[38:32] Speaker 1: It's got to fail somewhere, right?
[38:35] Speaker 1: And it has on a few occasions, but
[38:38] Speaker 1: you would expect it to be more than
[38:42] Speaker 1: single digit percentages point that's not
[38:45] Speaker 1: the case. No, that's very true.
[38:47] Speaker 1: I've got personal experience with it here
[38:50] Speaker 1: in South Texas, which I mean, we sprayed
[38:54] Speaker 1: when I was working as a consultant 20
[38:58] Speaker 1: years ago down here walking fields every
[39:01] Speaker 1: day. Vegetable fields would be sprayed
[39:04] Speaker 1: weekly with an insecticide, a fungicide,
[39:06] Speaker 1: Usually both. Because you know, we've got
[39:10] Speaker 1: to keep those soccer Moms happy and not
[39:13] Speaker 1: have anything on the leaf surface or any
[39:17] Speaker 1: holes in the leaves.
[39:19] Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, knowing
[39:22] Speaker 1: what I do now, it almost makes me
[39:26] Speaker 1: not want to eat vegetables simply because
[39:29] Speaker 1: of knowing how much we sprayed.
[39:32] Speaker 1: But I put it on, I've got a
[39:36] Speaker 1: little acre and a half market farm here
[39:39] Speaker 1: at my house. So I get to play around with
[39:43] Speaker 1: it. Half market farm here at my house.
[39:45] Speaker 1: So I get to play around with some of these
[39:49] Speaker 1: different tools and not have to worry
[39:51] Speaker 1: about losing money at the end of the day,
[39:54] Speaker 1: which, you know, a larger farmer is not
[39:56] Speaker 1: going to have that luxury.
[39:58] Speaker 1: But I applied pinion this year to some cut
[40:01] Speaker 1: flowers and I got at least a full month of
[40:04] Speaker 1: control with no disease pressure out in
[40:07] Speaker 1: the field. And seeing that, I was like,
[40:09] Speaker 1: well, this is working.
[40:10] Speaker 1: So when it came time to Work with the
[40:13] Speaker 1: commercial farmers on their various crops,
[40:15] Speaker 1: it was a no-brainer once pinyon got
[40:18] Speaker 1: registered, which we were a little bit
[40:20] Speaker 1: late in a lot of the states in the Midwest
[40:23] Speaker 1: and had to scramble to get some out.
[40:26] Speaker 1: But like I say, all of the feedback has
[40:29] Speaker 1: been very positive.
[40:31] Speaker 1: And when you have a seed company that
[40:34] Speaker 1: says, hey, we need to put pinyon out on
[40:38] Speaker 1: every single acre of seed production,
[40:40] Speaker 1: because they see in their trials that it's
[40:43] Speaker 1: working for them. That definitely is a big
[40:47] Speaker 1: selling point to me as a customer of using
[40:51] Speaker 1: Pinion to have the confidence and put it
[40:54] Speaker 1: out. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a fascinating
[40:57] Speaker 1: and very fun growing season in a lot of
[41:00] Speaker 1: ways just with all of the momentum that's
[41:04] Speaker 1: been happening in different areas in
[41:06] Speaker 1: different ways. What I started this
[41:09] Speaker 1: conversation, then we went down these
[41:11] Speaker 1: various rabbit holes, but I started this
[41:14] Speaker 1: conversation by asking you what have been
[41:17] Speaker 1: some of the highlights of your growing
[41:20] Speaker 1: season? You just mentioned the cut flowers
[41:23] Speaker 1: at home. What other experiences have you
[41:26] Speaker 1: had, either yourself or with growers that
[41:29] Speaker 1: you work with, where the results were
[41:31] Speaker 1: unexpected? Oh, that's a good question,
[41:34] Speaker 1: John. This has been a year that I would
[41:38] Speaker 1: say was more steady than anything else.
[41:41] Speaker 1: Looking at the past Couple of years, yeah,
[41:44] Speaker 1: we had some weather to overcome, but it
[41:47] Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily the same extremes that
[41:50] Speaker 1: we were dealing with, other than maybe
[41:53] Speaker 1: Kansas with being in an extreme drought
[41:55] Speaker 1: and not really getting to do a lot of
[41:59] Speaker 1: what we had intended to.
[42:01] Speaker 1: But a lot of my growers this year, being
[42:05] Speaker 1: in year four of being with the company,
[42:08] Speaker 1: too, I've got a lot of repeat customers.
[42:12] Speaker 1: Now that we've built the program around.
[42:14] Speaker 1: And I think the biggest thing that has
[42:18] Speaker 1: stood out to me this year is not
[42:21] Speaker 1: necessarily been a big aha moment, it's
[42:24] Speaker 1: just been nice and steady with growers
[42:27] Speaker 1: seeing success and their programs building
[42:29] Speaker 1: on what the foundation of what they
[42:32] Speaker 1: started with. You know, there's been a
[42:35] Speaker 1: few, I almost look at the failures of.
[42:39] Speaker 1: If you almost look at the failures of this
[42:42] Speaker 1: year as more of the highlight than the
[42:46] Speaker 1: successes, because we're learning things
[42:48] Speaker 1: about these farms, and now we can go back
[42:51] Speaker 1: and truly make a correction with some data
[42:55] Speaker 1: behind it instead of just guessing.
[42:57] Speaker 1: I'll use a farm in Northeastern Illinois
[43:00] Speaker 1: as a good example of this.
[43:03] Speaker 1: We thought we had really good corn going
[43:06] Speaker 1: into the end of the season, but then, and
[43:10] Speaker 1: this was an industry wide problem this
[43:13] Speaker 1: year with tip back for various reasons,
[43:16] Speaker 1: but they experienced a significant amount
[43:18] Speaker 1: of tip back. So now, when I was in
[43:22] Speaker 1: their kitchen going over the sap results
[43:25] Speaker 1: and looking at what we were seeing in the
[43:29] Speaker 1: field, you know, things started to really
[43:32] Speaker 1: correlate to a point now where, you know,
[43:35] Speaker 1: we've got a plan already built for next
[43:38] Speaker 1: year and we haven't even run a combine
[43:42] Speaker 1: yet. So, you know, I see those types of
[43:45] Speaker 1: things as much of a success as something
[43:49] Speaker 1: that we see as a positive in the field.
[43:53] Speaker 1: So, what happened with the tip vac?
[43:55] Speaker 1: It looks like we're, they were really
[43:58] Speaker 1: aggressive on pulling back on their bulk
[44:01] Speaker 1: fertility program.
[44:02] Speaker 1: And this is something they've been doing
[44:05] Speaker 1: over the years too.
[44:07] Speaker 1: So this wasn't just a one year decision,
[44:10] Speaker 1: but I think the main thing that really
[44:13] Speaker 1: stood out is we've got to do something to
[44:16] Speaker 1: maybe take a few steps back and put a
[44:20] Speaker 1: little more MPK into the system next year.
[44:23] Speaker 1: That's kind of where we're starting at
[44:26] Speaker 1: right now. I'm not going to say that's
[44:29] Speaker 1: where we're going to finish at when we
[44:32] Speaker 1: make the final program, but you know,
[44:35] Speaker 1: we've got to figure out how to better
[44:38] Speaker 1: manage those traditional nutrients and not
[44:41] Speaker 1: just completely pull back.
[44:42] Speaker 1: Phosphorus and potassium are usually
[44:44] Speaker 1: fairly easy on pulling back on these types
[44:47] Speaker 1: of row crops. The one thing I would
[44:51] Speaker 1: caution listeners that are doing hay or
[44:53] Speaker 1: forage production is make sure you're
[44:56] Speaker 1: replacing potassium in the system because
[44:58] Speaker 1: you're just pulling lots and lots of those
[45:01] Speaker 1: types of nutrients off when you're taking
[45:04] Speaker 1: the whole plant. But when you're in, you
[45:07] Speaker 1: know, just removing the grain, it's a
[45:10] Speaker 1: little different conversation.
[45:11] Speaker 1: I mean you look at tailgate seed nutrition
[45:14] Speaker 1: in Iowa is a good example I know they've
[45:18] Speaker 1: shared this information with us in some of
[45:21] Speaker 1: their videos that we've shared but you
[45:24] Speaker 1: know they haven't used P and K in four
[45:28] Speaker 1: years now and we're not really seeing any
[45:31] Speaker 1: yield discrepancies there other than when
[45:33] Speaker 1: we pick the wrong variety that's one thing
[45:37] Speaker 1: that's. That stood out as well as if, you
[45:40] Speaker 1: know If you're growing in a 200 bushel
[45:43] Speaker 1: area and you put a 150 bushel corn in
[45:47] Speaker 1: there and you make 150 instead of 200, you
[45:51] Speaker 1: had a success. So, you know, we've got to
[45:54] Speaker 1: make sure we're remembering those things
[45:57] Speaker 1: when we're picking varieties and making
[45:59] Speaker 1: those decisions in the field.
[46:01] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Jeff, this has been an awesome
[46:04] Speaker 1: conversation. I've really enjoyed it.
[46:06] Speaker 1: I've talked more than I sometimes do.
[46:09] Speaker 1: What are important topics that we haven't
[46:12] Speaker 1: touched on? You know, there's two things I
[46:16] Speaker 1: think that are standing out to me in
[46:19] Speaker 1: general. And the biggest one is carbon
[46:22] Speaker 1: management. That's something that, looking
[46:25] Speaker 1: at the last two years, and I started
[46:28] Speaker 1: going down this rabbit hole last year, it
[46:32] Speaker 1: really appears, based off of data, that
[46:35] Speaker 1: the higher carbon input we put into a
[46:38] Speaker 1: program or the better carbon management
[46:41] Speaker 1: may be the better way of expressing that,
[46:44] Speaker 1: the better the yield.
[46:46] Speaker 1: So that's definitely one that I'm on.
[46:49] Speaker 1: And then the other piece that kind of
[46:53] Speaker 1: going back to carbon as well, you know,
[46:56] Speaker 1: all these kind of tie into some of
[47:00] Speaker 1: the new federal guidelines that are coming
[47:03] Speaker 1: out with like the 45Z and benefits that
[47:06] Speaker 1: the farmer can get on some of these
[47:10] Speaker 1: government programs.
[47:11] Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, and
[47:14] Speaker 1: I know we've added a lot more sugar
[47:18] Speaker 1: into the programs this year, and the
[47:21] Speaker 1: industry has as a whole, but when you
[47:24] Speaker 1: look at what we're managing, it all comes
[47:28] Speaker 1: back to carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.
[47:30] Speaker 1: And when I'm looking at how to improve
[47:34] Speaker 1: my own ground here in South Texas, I've
[47:37] Speaker 1: got soil that will completely turn to
[47:40] Speaker 1: cement within days of A rain event, as
[47:44] Speaker 1: soon as it dries out.
[47:46] Speaker 1: And I know I need more organic matter,
[47:50] Speaker 1: and I need more soluble calcium, and
[47:53] Speaker 1: there's some other pieces in there that I
[47:57] Speaker 1: need to address as well.
[47:59] Speaker 1: And, you know, those are common things
[48:02] Speaker 1: that I deal with really throughout the
[48:05] Speaker 1: country with growers that just have tight
[48:08] Speaker 1: soils. Here locally, we We've got a lot
[48:12] Speaker 1: of conventional farmers that will say you
[48:15] Speaker 1: cannot do no till.
[48:17] Speaker 1: I think that's a sentiment throughout the
[48:20] Speaker 1: southeast. And I'm not necessarily saying
[48:23] Speaker 1: you have to do no-till, but I hate
[48:27] Speaker 1: the word can't, because I think there is
[48:31] Speaker 1: definitely a way we can address these soil
[48:34] Speaker 1: conditions and build a system that can
[48:37] Speaker 1: thrive just by addressing essentially
[48:40] Speaker 1: carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, which is
[48:42] Speaker 1: what we're managing with all the other
[48:46] Speaker 1: nutrients. You know, I'm reminded of I
[48:49] Speaker 1: think this was first articulated to me
[48:52] Speaker 1: very succinctly by Ben Taylor Davis on the
[48:56] Speaker 1: podcast here where he said the majority of
[48:59] Speaker 1: farming and farm management, agronomy
[49:02] Speaker 1: management is about learning how to become
[49:05] Speaker 1: very efficient at managing three free
[49:08] Speaker 1: things. Water, sunlight, and carbon
[49:10] Speaker 1: dioxide. And I've since heard a number of
[49:14] Speaker 1: Keith Burns presentations.
[49:15] Speaker 1: Where he has talked about the many things
[49:19] Speaker 1: that we are given for free and that
[49:22] Speaker 1: farming and agronomy really is about
[49:25] Speaker 1: optimizing those free things.
[49:27] Speaker 1: And he's expanded the list from three to
[49:30] Speaker 1: I think seven or more.
[49:33] Speaker 1: But it's foundationally is how do we
[49:36] Speaker 1: optimize the utilization.
[49:37] Speaker 1: I was about to use the word capture
[49:41] Speaker 1: but I don't really like that term.
[49:44] Speaker 1: But the utilization of those things that
[49:47] Speaker 1: we are given for free.
[49:49] Speaker 1: And Jeff, you know what has intrigued me
[49:52] Speaker 1: perhaps the most of the things that we've
[49:56] Speaker 1: been playing around with, including sugars
[49:58] Speaker 1: in foliar applications and soil
[50:01] Speaker 1: applications and using amino acids and
[50:03] Speaker 1: amino sugars and different things, is the
[50:06] Speaker 1: relatively small quantity that is required
[50:09] Speaker 1: to produce a disproportionately large
[50:11] Speaker 1: response when it is included as a part
[50:15] Speaker 1: of a program, as a part of a
[50:18] Speaker 1: system. And it's people, I know Growers
[50:21] Speaker 1: who've been using sugar for years.
[50:24] Speaker 1: I know people who have been putting in
[50:27] Speaker 1: high fructose corn syrup in with their
[50:30] Speaker 1: liquid nitrogen for decades.
[50:32] Speaker 1: And obviously they keep doing it because
[50:35] Speaker 1: they're seeing something from it.
[50:37] Speaker 1: But they are still, their nitrogen
[50:40] Speaker 1: reduction isn't nearly the extent of what
[50:43] Speaker 1: we are observing, what we've been able to
[50:46] Speaker 1: accomplish. And I think that is because we
[50:50] Speaker 1: are including sugars.
[50:51] Speaker 1: And I think that is because we're
[50:54] Speaker 1: including sugars into a system that is
[50:57] Speaker 1: designed to optimize biological reactions
[50:59] Speaker 1: and biological and the soil microbiome
[51:02] Speaker 1: response. And if you just start adding
[51:05] Speaker 1: sugars into a mainstream system, yes,
[51:07] Speaker 1: you're going to get a response.
[51:09] Speaker 1: It's better. You're doing something.
[51:11] Speaker 1: But you're only getting a fraction of the
[51:15] Speaker 1: response that is possible when you Start
[51:17] Speaker 1: shifting the system to optimize biology
[51:20] Speaker 1: and then once you are in a system to
[51:23] Speaker 1: optimize biology, I mean, just using the
[51:26] Speaker 1: high fructose corn syrup example that I
[51:28] Speaker 1: mentioned a moment ago, they were putting
[51:31] Speaker 1: on, if memory serves me correctly.
[51:33] Speaker 1: They were putting on three to four quarts
[51:37] Speaker 1: per acre of of high fructose corn syrup in
[51:40] Speaker 1: with liquid nitrogen response.
[51:42] Speaker 1: Well, and in some cases even more than
[51:45] Speaker 1: that. What we are now seeing is that in
[51:48] Speaker 1: a biological system, you need just a
[51:51] Speaker 1: fraction of that, either soil applied or
[51:54] Speaker 1: foliar applied, to produce a strong
[51:56] Speaker 1: response. We're actually getting a bigger
[51:58] Speaker 1: response than what they had been.
[52:01] Speaker 1: So it's just fascinating to observe the
[52:04] Speaker 1: dose response curve.
[52:05] Speaker 1: I suppose what I'm saying, attempting to
[52:08] Speaker 1: communicate as simply as possible, is that
[52:10] Speaker 1: the dose response curve is very different
[52:13] Speaker 1: in biological systems and in active soils
[52:16] Speaker 1: than it is in inactive soils.
[52:19] Speaker 1: No, I think you're inactive soils?
[52:21] Speaker 1: No, I think that definitely goes along
[52:24] Speaker 1: with what I've seen in the field.
[52:27] Speaker 1: I think too many times growers look at
[52:30] Speaker 1: trying one single new product instead of
[52:33] Speaker 1: what they're doing in their complete
[52:35] Speaker 1: system. And if that one product fails to
[52:39] Speaker 1: give them a response, then they blame the
[52:42] Speaker 1: product. But at the same time, it may
[52:45] Speaker 1: actually be the system that they're
[52:48] Speaker 1: running. Yeah, that's a good point.
[52:50] Speaker 1: And it's one of these inherent Challenges
[52:53] Speaker 1: where we so often dissociate the
[52:56] Speaker 1: scientific method of research with single
[52:58] Speaker 1: factor analysis and analyzing just a
[53:01] Speaker 1: single factor at a time.
[53:03] Speaker 1: But single factor analysis has some
[53:06] Speaker 1: substantial challenges and weakness when
[53:08] Speaker 1: in an agricultural setting where you
[53:10] Speaker 1: inherently have multiple factors that you
[53:13] Speaker 1: cannot control, whether in soil
[53:15] Speaker 1: variability and on and on the list goes,
[53:18] Speaker 1: particularly when you start looking at
[53:21] Speaker 1: across broader regions.
[53:22] Speaker 1: What if we started Conducting research not
[53:25] Speaker 1: on, let's just say, in a single field,
[53:28] Speaker 1: a planter solution or an agronomy system?
[53:31] Speaker 1: What if our approach was not to do single
[53:35] Speaker 1: factor analysis, but systems analysis,
[53:37] Speaker 1: multi factor analysis?
[53:39] Speaker 1: So, what if you change six things at once
[53:42] Speaker 1: or 10 things at once instead of just one?
[53:46] Speaker 1: And obviously, you have to conduct these
[53:49] Speaker 1: trials at a scale that is fail safe.
[53:52] Speaker 1: If things do not work out You don't get
[53:56] Speaker 1: burned too hard. But I think that's
[53:59] Speaker 1: something that what I see happening is
[54:02] Speaker 1: that our collective knowledge and
[54:04] Speaker 1: experience of how to implement these
[54:06] Speaker 1: biological systems has progressed far
[54:09] Speaker 1: beyond where it was 10 years ago or even
[54:12] Speaker 1: 20 years ago. And we have with tools like
[54:16] Speaker 1: Sapinels and others, we have confidence
[54:19] Speaker 1: check tools that we can check during the
[54:22] Speaker 1: growing season. It's not like we do one
[54:25] Speaker 1: thing at planting and then we wait to
[54:29] Speaker 1: harvest to see what the results are.
[54:31] Speaker 1: If something doesn't work, we can course
[54:34] Speaker 1: correct in the middle of the season very
[54:38] Speaker 1: affordably now. That was much more
[54:40] Speaker 1: difficult 20 years ago than what it is
[54:44] Speaker 1: today. Yeah, 100%.
[54:45] Speaker 1: And I've got some growers that are doing
[54:48] Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about with
[54:51] Speaker 1: systems. Research approach, and this year.
[54:53] Speaker 1: I need to clarify exactly how he had that
[54:57] Speaker 1: trial set up, but it was essentially a
[55:00] Speaker 1: biological in-furrow versus a 2x2 of 40
[55:03] Speaker 1: units of, I want to say it was N32,
[55:07] Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, side-by-side on a
[55:10] Speaker 1: field. And, you know, 20 years ago, I
[55:13] Speaker 1: would have told you that 40 units of
[55:17] Speaker 1: nitrate would have outyielded a biological
[55:19] Speaker 1: in-furrow of nitrogen would have out
[55:22] Speaker 1: yielded a biological in-furrow.
[55:23] Speaker 1: Well, the data is showing 25 bushel
[55:26] Speaker 1: advantage to the biological in-furrow
[55:28] Speaker 1: program that has about five different
[55:31] Speaker 1: products. Wow. So I'm waiting on the
[55:34] Speaker 1: actual confirmation of that data, but
[55:36] Speaker 1: yeah, that may come out and be featured in
[55:40] Speaker 1: a case study. Jeff, that's one of the case
[55:44] Speaker 1: studies the that's too good to be true,
[55:47] Speaker 1: don't you know? Oh, I know.
[55:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. But you know, to your point, John,
[55:53] Speaker 1: too, when I first started working with
[55:56] Speaker 1: biologicals back in 2009, I mean, it's
[55:59] Speaker 1: about the same time that you were starting
[56:02] Speaker 1: AEA. And it was here in Texas.
[56:05] Speaker 1: We put out the biology by itself, and this
[56:09] Speaker 1: is biology I believed in, I'd seen it work
[56:12] Speaker 1: great. But literally to the turn row, it
[56:16] Speaker 1: would work on one field and it wouldn't
[56:19] Speaker 1: work on the next one.
[56:21] Speaker 1: We started Doing what is essentially our
[56:24] Speaker 1: soil primer program here at AEA with it,
[56:27] Speaker 1: and we got much better consistency.
[56:29] Speaker 1: I don't want to say it was 100% because
[56:33] Speaker 1: there's so many variables out there, but I
[56:36] Speaker 1: would guess to say it was up in the
[56:40] Speaker 1: 90% range that we would get a positive
[56:43] Speaker 1: result, what we were expecting.
[56:45] Speaker 1: The one time, well, the one, this is kind
[56:49] Speaker 1: of something I. I like to share with Well,
[56:53] Speaker 1: this is something I like to share with
[56:56] Speaker 1: growers when we start talking about
[56:58] Speaker 1: glyphosate resistance.
[56:59] Speaker 1: And John, I'm going to throw one at you
[57:03] Speaker 1: that you and I haven't talked about before
[57:06] Speaker 1: here. But one of the things we observed
[57:10] Speaker 1: when we would essentially run that same
[57:12] Speaker 1: program with glyphosate applications was
[57:14] Speaker 1: we would get basically a complete kill
[57:17] Speaker 1: with resistant weeds, as well as have
[57:20] Speaker 1: Essentially no weed left after about two
[57:23] Speaker 1: weeks if it was a regular, I'm going to
[57:27] Speaker 1: say a one foot tall weed.
[57:29] Speaker 1: So, biology can do a whole lot
[57:33] Speaker 1: of fun things once you start playing
[57:36] Speaker 1: around with it. You know, I'm not
[57:39] Speaker 1: surprised by that at all, Jeff.
[57:42] Speaker 1: The 20, I was about to say
[57:46] Speaker 1: 2025. The 2005 growing season, it was
[57:49] Speaker 1: the last season that we applied pesticides
[57:52] Speaker 1: on the farm that I was managing
[57:56] Speaker 1: at at home. And I was already,
[57:59] Speaker 1: we were already quite concerned about the
[58:03] Speaker 1: impacts of pesticides, we're trying to
[58:05] Speaker 1: figure out how to reduce them.
[58:08] Speaker 1: And I did this experiment with glyphosate
[58:12] Speaker 1: where Roundup I had lots of mentors
[58:15] Speaker 1: and people who I was talking with
[58:19] Speaker 1: at the time. And so I asked
[58:22] Speaker 1: them all for their advice on how
[58:25] Speaker 1: Roundup rates could be reduced.
[58:28] Speaker 1: And I got all kinds of different
[58:31] Speaker 1: answers that ranged from structured water
[58:34] Speaker 1: to using crop oil to adding sugar
[58:37] Speaker 1: to the spray tank, adding ammonium
[58:40] Speaker 1: sulfate. And so you can guess what
[58:44] Speaker 1: I did. I just stacked all those
[58:47] Speaker 1: things on top of each other.
[58:50] Speaker 1: Like what happens if you just do
[58:53] Speaker 1: it all? And what happens and what's
[58:57] Speaker 1: the appropriate sequence?
[58:58] Speaker 1: Like when do you? So we actually,
[59:02] Speaker 1: we pre-mixed, we ended up not using
[59:05] Speaker 1: crop oil, but a specific oil formulation
[59:09] Speaker 1: and memory is escaping my memory right
[59:12] Speaker 1: now, but we We used structured water.
[59:15] Speaker 1: We added ammonium sulfate.
[59:17] Speaker 1: Then we added sugar.
[59:20] Speaker 1: Then we added. Then we pre
[59:23] Speaker 1: mixed the Roundup with a vegetable
[59:26] Speaker 1: oil. And then we added that
[59:29] Speaker 1: to the spray tank along with
[59:33] Speaker 1: an emulsifier. And it seems like
[59:36] Speaker 1: I may be forgetting one or
[59:39] Speaker 1: two things. We got complete total
[59:42] Speaker 1: weed kill at eight ounces per
[59:46] Speaker 1: acre of active ingredient.
[59:48] Speaker 1: And we got 95 plus percent
[59:51] Speaker 1: kill at four ounces of active
[59:54] Speaker 1: ingredient. That's pretty impressive.
[59:57] Speaker 1: This is 20 years ago.
[59:59] Speaker 1: And so what has happened now,
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: I mean, that was fairly elementary.
[1:00:06] Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there was some
[1:00:09] Speaker 1: solid science behind it and some
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: good reasons behind it, but you
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: now bring that forward To today.
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: If I were doing something similar
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: today, I would also be putting
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: in the biostimulants that would be
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: accelerating plant growth and plant
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: development. Because essentially, the
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: combination of sugars and...
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: You're getting a whole lot of things
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: right. You're getting the point of
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: deliquescence correct.
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: You're making that spray solution very
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: appetizing for the plant.
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: The combination of ammonium sulfate and
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: sugars and oils, you're making that spray
[1:00:51] Speaker 1: solution Such that the plant desires to
[1:00:54] Speaker 1: absorb it and absorbs it very rapidly, and
[1:00:58] Speaker 1: it moves through the plant very rapidly.
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: Well, you can accelerate that even more
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: with biostimulants.
[1:01:04] Speaker 1: And what if we took this approach overall
[1:01:07] Speaker 1: from a pesticide management perspective?
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: This is very relevant for herbicides, not
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: just for glyphosate, but for herbicides
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: generally. How can you make that herbicide
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: solution appealing to the plant and have
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: it absorb it more efficiently and more
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: effectively. And yeah, that was 20 years
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: ago. The standard recommended rate at that
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: point, if I recall correctly, was 64
[1:01:30] Speaker 1: ounces. We got it down to eight, which is
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: one eighth, 12%. How much opportunity is
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: left in other domains if we did similar
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: things? Yep, makes you think.
[1:01:38] Speaker 1: Yeah. Awesome. Well, this has been a
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: wonderful conversation, Jeff.
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, for being
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: willing to share your experiences.
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: And your wisdom and all the things you're
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: working on. No, it's been a pleasure,
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: John, and I can't wait for the next
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: conversation because if we continue down
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: all these rabbit holes, we're going to be
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: here all day.

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