# Cas Holman (on being playful)

An episode of [Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1345682353), 29 Oct 2025, 1 h 33 min.

Audio: https://rss.art19.com/episodes/562cd7c5-958f-4e57-b656-202683f83149.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIhVJbnZpc2libGVOZXR3b3JrBjoGRVQ%3D--0761ee75eb25694efc17849092f8583c07f6c68b

Cas Holman (Playful: How Play Shifts Our Thinking, Inspires Connection, and Sparks Creativity) is a toy creator, play designer, and author. Cas joins the Armchair Expert to discuss creating modular ecosystems of play in her toys, studying in the rainforest as a Banana Slug, and her gender-bending appearance on Maury Povich. Cas and Dax talk about learning how to both fabricate and tell a story in design school, instilling ideals with her adventure playground, and the twelve different play types for adults and children. Cas explains why the subway is such a safe space to cry, how great innovation comes from play, and that continuing to play is also a powerful form of resistance. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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