# Ben Bridwell (Band of Horses)

An episode of [Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1311004083), 17 Feb 2026, 1 h 07 min.

Audio: https://pdrl.fm/2b09fd/podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/SxlTEPDY7xDg35RXkASs/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/ff0ba2f2-f33c-4193-aba2-ae32006cd633/97215c17-643f-42cb-ade6-b3f10004ad4c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=11c188a1-cb86-4869-9c57-ae32006cd63c

Ben Bridwell has led Band of Horses for over two decades. He describes the band's sound as "y'all-ternative," a genre that tips its hat to Southern rock's deep myriad of musical influences. Next month, Band of Horses is celebrating the 20th anniversary of their debut album, Everything All the Time, with an expanded reissue featuring previously unreleased demos and live recordings. The album, recorded in 2005 with producer Phil Ek, who's known for producing albums by Built to Spill, Modest Mouse, and The Shins. When Band of Horses started working with Phil, Ben had only been writing songs for a couple of years. He was also new to Seattle, where he'd relocated from Tucson, a city he moved to at 16 after dropping out of high school in his native Irmo, South Carolina. On today's episode, Leah Rose talks to Ben Bridwell about recording Everything All the Time. He opens up about hitting rock bottom in South Carolina before moving to Seattle. He also talks about recently breaking the generational curse of alcoholism in his family, getting his life together post-divorce, and he explains why the upcoming Band of Horses album may sound aggressive despite the fact that he's in such a happy place. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Ben Bridwell & Band of Horses HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:15] Speaker 1: Pushkin. Ben Bridwell is a frontman of Band of Horses,
[0:22] Speaker 1: a group whose sound he describes as y'all alternative, a
[0:26] Speaker 1: genre that tips its hat to Southern rock's deep myriad
[0:28] Speaker 1: of musical influences. Next month, the group is celebrating the
[0:33] Speaker 1: twentieth anniversary of their debut album Everything All the Time,
[0:36] Speaker 1: with an expanded reissue featuring previously unreleased demos and live recordings.
[0:40] Speaker 1: The album was recorded in two thousand and five with
[0:42] Speaker 1: producer of Phil Eck, who's known for producing albums by Built,
[0:45] Speaker 1: The Spill, Modest Mouse, and The Shins. When Band of
[0:49] Speaker 1: Horses started working on the project with Phil, Ben had
[0:51] Speaker 1: only been writing songs for a couple of years. He
[0:53] Speaker 1: was also new to Seattle, where he relocated from Tucson,
[0:57] Speaker 1: a city he'd moved to at sixteen after dropping out
[0:59] Speaker 1: of high school in his native Irmo, South Carolina. On
[1:03] Speaker 1: today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Ben Bridwell about recording
[1:06] Speaker 1: Everything All the Time. He opens up about hitting rock
[1:08] Speaker 1: bottom in South Carolina before moving to Seattle, including sitting
[1:12] Speaker 1: in his mattress on fire, getting hit by a car,
[1:14] Speaker 1: and getting arrested, all within the span of one week.
[1:17] Speaker 1: He also talks about recently breaking the generational curse of
[1:20] Speaker 1: alcoholism and his family, getting his life together post divorce,
[1:23] Speaker 1: and explains why the upcoming Band of Horses album may
[1:26] Speaker 1: sound aggressive despite the fact that it's in such a
[1:28] Speaker 1: happy place. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
[1:41] Speaker 1: Here's Lea Rose with Ben Bridwell. Head over to YouTube
[1:44] Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see the video
[1:46] Speaker 1: version of this interview.
[1:49] Speaker 2: What were you like in high school?
[1:50] Speaker 3: Like?
[1:51] Speaker 2: What were you up to in high school?
[1:52] Speaker 3: Bad? Pretty bad?
[1:57] Speaker 1: No?
[1:57] Speaker 3: I I was all right. I only lasted I think
[2:00] Speaker 3: my tenth grade year. I think I think I went.
[2:05] Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I'm still a sophomore or what
[2:07] Speaker 3: I am, But yeah, I didn't. I wasn't there very long.
[2:11] Speaker 3: I was missing too many days, and they're kind of
[2:14] Speaker 3: like you don't really want to be here, not at all,
[2:16] Speaker 3: you know, So like, off you go. So I moved
[2:20] Speaker 3: out west and started the chant, like the whole thing
[2:25] Speaker 3: that would kind of cascade into Band of Horses and
[2:27] Speaker 3: all that. By searching for a place where there was
[2:32] Speaker 3: like a punk rock scene and an engine rock scene
[2:36] Speaker 3: and you could go. You didn't have to drive three
[2:38] Speaker 3: hundred miles to go see a show.
[2:40] Speaker 2: So there was no like punk rock scene in South Carolina.
[2:43] Speaker 3: There was. There was a lot of straight edge kids
[2:45] Speaker 3: and a lot of skateboard scene was kind of intertwined,
[2:47] Speaker 3: and and there was some There was a couple of
[2:50] Speaker 3: good punk bands out of Columbia, South Carolina. But again
[2:53] Speaker 3: I had to get like my a mother's note to
[2:55] Speaker 3: go to the club, you know what I mean. I
[2:57] Speaker 3: was still like sixteen, you know, and I'm like, I
[2:59] Speaker 3: want to go for I want to go, you know.
[3:01] Speaker 3: And we drived like Charlotte or Chapel Hill or Atlanta
[3:05] Speaker 3: or something Athens to go see yeah, you know, like
[3:08] Speaker 3: you are a loaf or Sebado's playing there and Pavement
[3:12] Speaker 3: was coming around, and uh so we or the Ramones,
[3:15] Speaker 3: you know, we'd drive, We'd have to drive, and I
[3:18] Speaker 3: was like, man, I want to go someplace where that
[3:19] Speaker 3: stuff is, like people are like in bands that are
[3:22] Speaker 3: playing big places, you know, like there's like a real
[3:25] Speaker 3: scene going on. I wanted to be near that. So
[3:27] Speaker 3: I went to Tucson, Arizona.
[3:29] Speaker 2: Oh and wich was going on in Tucson at that time.
[3:32] Speaker 3: A thriving punk and goth and weirdo scene. Oh my god,
[3:37] Speaker 3: I'd never lived out west and or been out West,
[3:41] Speaker 3: and it was it was different. You know, kids were
[3:43] Speaker 3: like doing speed and like they're nails, you know, and
[3:49] Speaker 3: going to the club and stuff. So it was it
[3:53] Speaker 3: was cool. It was very different. There's like raves and
[3:56] Speaker 3: stuff like that. Didn't know nothing about dance music or nothing,
[3:58] Speaker 3: and uh, and I became kind of entrenched in that
[4:03] Speaker 3: scene by working, uh, delivering pizzas and working in cafes
[4:08] Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And yeah, it was pretty freaky, honestly.
[4:13] Speaker 3: Like these kids, they weren't much older than me, but
[4:15] Speaker 3: they were out of high school, you know, they were
[4:17] Speaker 3: like pioneering twenty years old. They were like grown ups
[4:21] Speaker 3: and they were making a go of it.
[4:23] Speaker 2: So you were already playing music at that point.
[4:26] Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I didn't.
[4:27] Speaker 2: Just kind of like a fan, like want to be
[4:29] Speaker 2: in the scene and kind of yeah, party type.
[4:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. I just wanted to be around it and yeah
[4:35] Speaker 3: and be friends with people that were in bands and
[4:38] Speaker 3: I didn't and I was. I was really always into
[4:41] Speaker 3: making like mixtapes. I was always about trying to spread
[4:44] Speaker 3: other people's music to others. That was always what I
[4:47] Speaker 3: thought would be more my calling. Maybe working in radio
[4:51] Speaker 3: or something like that, or with a label even so yeah,
[4:56] Speaker 3: like an A totally that would have been amazing. Hey
[5:00] Speaker 3: they're still young, I'm available, you know. I ended up
[5:06] Speaker 3: starting a label. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's plentny how that
[5:10] Speaker 3: worked out. But yeah, I didn't end up playing music
[5:14] Speaker 3: until like my mid twenties or something like that.
[5:17] Speaker 2: That's crazy.
[5:18] Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't think that would be something in the
[5:20] Speaker 3: cards for sure.
[5:22] Speaker 2: That's so crazy. So how did that happen? Was it
[5:24] Speaker 2: just kind of like messing around with friends, instruments around
[5:27] Speaker 2: and you just took a go at it or how
[5:29] Speaker 2: did you even make that transition?
[5:32] Speaker 3: Well? I was releasing bands on my label, and mostly
[5:38] Speaker 3: as a stepping stone kind of label just to get like, hey,
[5:40] Speaker 3: y'all can have some CDs to sell the show, you
[5:42] Speaker 3: know what I mean, and then maybe like a big
[5:44] Speaker 3: label be like yoink and you know, we're going to
[5:46] Speaker 3: superstardom or something. But I ended up joining the main
[5:52] Speaker 3: group that I was like just entrenched with. I met
[5:56] Speaker 3: out in Tucson called Chris is Weird and and it
[6:01] Speaker 3: was a male and female songwriter and they picked up
[6:05] Speaker 3: some good steam. Once once we all kind of relocate,
[6:08] Speaker 3: we met in twosons, and we all ended up living
[6:10] Speaker 3: in Seattle, and they started to really get their act
[6:15] Speaker 3: together and put out a couple of records with them,
[6:19] Speaker 3: and then they're one of their drummer had to leave
[6:22] Speaker 3: to go be in modest mouse for a second as
[6:24] Speaker 3: like a utility dude, and they needed someone to play
[6:27] Speaker 3: kind of like slow core drums, and uh, I hate
[6:31] Speaker 3: that term, but still that's what we kind of wore.
[6:33] Speaker 3: It was. It was very slow and easy to play drums.
[6:36] Speaker 3: I was like, because I had a car basically, and
[6:38] Speaker 3: they trusted my driving skills and they needed to go
[6:41] Speaker 3: on tour, I think they're like, then will you do it?
[6:44] Speaker 3: Learned to play some drums, and so I started to
[6:47] Speaker 3: do that, and a little bit later I picked up
[6:52] Speaker 3: a bass a little bit for like a song or two,
[6:54] Speaker 3: you know, And then the band broke up and it
[6:56] Speaker 3: was like, what are we going to do? I now
[6:59] Speaker 3: got kind of used to that lifestyle of like staring
[7:02] Speaker 3: out the window all day and meeting new people at night.
[7:07] Speaker 3: So I just started falling around with the gear that
[7:10] Speaker 3: was kind of left in the ashes of that band.
[7:14] Speaker 3: It was just we still were paying for a rehearsal space.
[7:16] Speaker 3: I was like, I'm just gonna go down there every
[7:19] Speaker 3: day that I can and spend as much time as
[7:22] Speaker 3: I can figuring it out. And that's what I did.
[7:25] Speaker 3: I just put in the honestly, the hours. I think
[7:29] Speaker 3: that's what really got me to where I am now
[7:32] Speaker 3: is just I just I didn't know what I was doing,
[7:35] Speaker 3: but I just tinkered long enough to find some melody
[7:39] Speaker 3: and then it it just kind of took its own course.
[7:43] Speaker 2: That's so cool. Did it feel good to be on stage,
[7:46] Speaker 2: like the first time you were up there playing drums? Like,
[7:48] Speaker 2: as someone who was such a fan of music, did
[7:50] Speaker 2: it feel cool to be in a band?
[7:53] Speaker 3: Like?
[7:53] Speaker 2: What was that experience like for you?
[7:57] Speaker 3: I'm sure the tightrope act of it was was a thrill, right,
[8:01] Speaker 3: But I've always i mean, more than imposter syndrome like
[8:04] Speaker 3: this just isn't where I'm supposed to be, you know,
[8:07] Speaker 3: So that was always I mean, I liked I think
[8:11] Speaker 3: I'm more like the camaraderie of being in a band
[8:15] Speaker 3: more than I did like trying to grow my craft
[8:20] Speaker 3: in a band, you know what I mean. I just
[8:22] Speaker 3: liked the whole I liked I liked the whole party
[8:26] Speaker 3: of it all, and the whole experience of traveling and
[8:29] Speaker 3: that wanderlust that's totally been impossible to really satisfy my
[8:35] Speaker 3: whole life. So I think that was more the thing.
[8:39] Speaker 3: So the playing was out of necessity, just to earn
[8:42] Speaker 3: my keep. I think on the road you still am
[8:46] Speaker 3: still trying. Yeah. Yeah.
[8:49] Speaker 2: I was reading an old article in Rolling Stone. It
[8:52] Speaker 2: was in a section called hot bandy. Oh my god,
[8:58] Speaker 2: I think it was from two thousand and seven, and
[9:01] Speaker 2: it said, one of the reasons you left Charleston was
[9:06] Speaker 2: because you lit your mattress on fire with a handle.
[9:10] Speaker 3: True?
[9:10] Speaker 2: What what is that story? What happened?
[9:13] Speaker 3: Good lord? It was the first year that I'd ever
[9:17] Speaker 3: heard the term el nino. Okay, I was like, what
[9:20] Speaker 3: is el Nina? What is y'all? But so one night
[9:26] Speaker 3: I was well, my roommate was woken up by the
[9:29] Speaker 3: ceiling dripping on him because this crazy el Nino pushed
[9:33] Speaker 3: this storm through and uh, and so he woke up
[9:36] Speaker 3: to find that my room was on fire. He could
[9:40] Speaker 3: like see it under the door, like the flames or whatever,
[9:43] Speaker 3: and he came in and kicked me awake. My bed
[9:47] Speaker 3: had caught fire thanks to because I was making mixtapes
[9:50] Speaker 3: before I was going to bed and drinking and sitting
[9:53] Speaker 3: there in bed making mixtape, drinking pass out, and the
[9:58] Speaker 3: candle ended up catching this, you know, fifteen dollars mattress
[10:03] Speaker 3: from the seventies, probably on fire, which was the opposite
[10:07] Speaker 3: of flame retardant. It was only like it just it
[10:10] Speaker 3: would not go out. So even like I had to
[10:12] Speaker 3: run with this I got once we realized dumping water
[10:16] Speaker 3: on it wouldn't work. I had to drag it through
[10:20] Speaker 3: the house and throw it outside where it was dumping rain. Right,
[10:23] Speaker 3: throw it outside, it lands on like the steps the
[10:26] Speaker 3: stairs going up to the house. It lands on this
[10:28] Speaker 3: and still wouldn't go out in the rainstorm. The flames
[10:31] Speaker 3: just got even more and more.
[10:33] Speaker 2: Oh my god.
[10:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, and so so that and I had gotten thrown
[10:39] Speaker 3: in jail also for some thing, No, for something different,
[10:43] Speaker 3: but I had this. I had this like round round
[10:46] Speaker 3: trip ticket to go visit my friends from Chris is Weird,
[10:50] Speaker 3: who I met out in Tucson. They were living out
[10:52] Speaker 3: in Olympia, Washington. Now, I was gonna go visit Northwest
[10:55] Speaker 3: and then come back. But after all this happened within
[10:58] Speaker 3: a week, I mean I got hit by a car.
[11:00] Speaker 3: Also right after that, with all my bandage. My hands
[11:02] Speaker 3: were all bandaged up, like fingers were touching this far apart,
[11:06] Speaker 3: and I hit by a car delivering a Brita and
[11:09] Speaker 3: pizzas to the hospital and all my bandages like blew up.
[11:13] Speaker 3: So I'm like, oh my god. So I changed I
[11:17] Speaker 3: changed the ticket to one way a sign yeah, and
[11:21] Speaker 3: moved out to the Northwest. And that's what also kind
[11:23] Speaker 3: of started this whole push for U for the music thing.
[11:28] Speaker 3: You hit rock bottom, I reckon, I reckon, I did yeah,
[11:32] Speaker 3: and I didn't. My prospects were very, very low, and
[11:38] Speaker 3: you know, but then I was homeless out there. I
[11:40] Speaker 3: was living on the streets of Seattle, living outside before
[11:44] Speaker 3: and and got hired by a rock club, the Crocodile,
[11:46] Speaker 3: owned by one Peter Buck from r E.
[11:48] Speaker 2: M uh.
[11:49] Speaker 3: They hired me with my sleeping bag on my back
[11:52] Speaker 3: and gave me a chance.
[11:53] Speaker 2: Uh.
[11:53] Speaker 3: So I was able to start saving up money and
[11:56] Speaker 3: getting living inside.
[11:58] Speaker 2: What do you think, Like, what perspective does that give you,
[12:00] Speaker 2: having once been sleeping on the street, Like are you
[12:03] Speaker 2: grateful for that?
[12:05] Speaker 3: I don't like to go camping? And tell you that
[12:08] Speaker 3: I don't to go camping, I'm like, no, I've done,
[12:11] Speaker 3: why would I do?
[12:12] Speaker 2: I don't need that experience?
[12:15] Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, it's yeah, I definitely don't like to
[12:21] Speaker 3: go camping. But you know, I'm just I'm eternally also
[12:27] Speaker 3: like a bit of a like feeling a bit like
[12:33] Speaker 3: I don't belong wherever I'm supposed to be, Like I'm
[12:35] Speaker 3: not supposed to be allowed in this place, you know.
[12:38] Speaker 3: You know, I always feel like someone would be like,
[12:41] Speaker 3: who let the freak in?
[12:42] Speaker 2: You know, well, it seems like you were a go getter.
[12:48] Speaker 2: I mean if you're sitting there starting a label, like,
[12:50] Speaker 2: how did you how did you even come up with
[12:52] Speaker 2: that idea?
[12:54] Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I was working at this club in Seattle. God,
[12:58] Speaker 3: now my dream has come true. I get to work
[13:00] Speaker 3: at a rock club and like the bands that I
[13:02] Speaker 3: like are playing, you know, every month you get a calendar.
[13:04] Speaker 3: It's like, oh, oh I'm getting off that night.
[13:07] Speaker 1: You know.
[13:07] Speaker 3: It's like watching sound and watching how bands interact, and
[13:11] Speaker 3: oh my god. It was a dream come true. But
[13:14] Speaker 3: I was also not making very much money and I
[13:17] Speaker 3: was I'm just always ornery too, and I'm like, man,
[13:21] Speaker 3: I want to do what those guys are doing, Like,
[13:23] Speaker 3: you know, they're tipping me nothing, you know, my tip
[13:26] Speaker 3: out and I'm getting like eleven bucks you know, for
[13:29] Speaker 3: like the busiest shift ever, and I'm like, there's got
[13:32] Speaker 3: to be a better way. So I just started saving
[13:35] Speaker 3: every tip. I was almost like in defiance of my
[13:40] Speaker 3: own my own prospects as as a as a growing person,
[13:46] Speaker 3: or I'm like, I don't have an education. I don't
[13:49] Speaker 3: I don't have a whole lot going for me as
[13:52] Speaker 3: skill wise. I'm going to just I'm how good at
[13:57] Speaker 3: cooking on the line. I'm just gonna save every dollar
[13:59] Speaker 3: and I'm gonna hide it for myself, and I'm gonna
[14:03] Speaker 3: put out my friend's record that those friends I met
[14:06] Speaker 3: in Tucson. I'm gonna put out their record. They're finally
[14:08] Speaker 3: gonna have a CD, and everything will just kind of start,
[14:13] Speaker 3: you know, snowballing. And it it did. So you know,
[14:19] Speaker 3: it had enough to put out one record, and it
[14:22] Speaker 3: had enough to repress it, and all of a sudden,
[14:24] Speaker 3: it's like Jesus, we got like a thing going on
[14:26] Speaker 3: here now and growing up with like I mean, even
[14:30] Speaker 3: in Irmo, South Carolina, I had stenciled Subpop on my backpack,
[14:34] Speaker 3: you know, in white out, you know, so there was
[14:36] Speaker 3: already like this like indie rock kind of like the
[14:40] Speaker 3: branding of indie rock was was working on me, you
[14:42] Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. Yeah, moving up to Seattle and stuff.
[14:45] Speaker 3: There's so many record labels. This is like peak indie sleeves,
[14:51] Speaker 3: whatever era this was. But there were so many great
[14:55] Speaker 3: labels and and everyone was cool and intermixing with one another.
[15:00] Speaker 3: And my idea to help other people dream their dreams
[15:05] Speaker 3: bigger was more than business savvy, because I had always said, like,
[15:10] Speaker 3: this is like a stepping stone. I'm not trying to
[15:12] Speaker 3: like put you on a contract. I'm not trying to
[15:14] Speaker 3: do nothing but get us on k XP, you know,
[15:17] Speaker 3: and like and put our shops or our CDs and
[15:20] Speaker 3: all these shops. There were so many great record stores
[15:23] Speaker 3: in Seattle too, so you could put them on consignment.
[15:25] Speaker 3: And if you can sell those, they want to get more.
[15:27] Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, well, now we got something going,
[15:29] Speaker 3: and I was able to at least harness that dream
[15:32] Speaker 3: and help some people believe along with me.
[15:36] Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Ben Bridwell after the break.
[15:43] Speaker 2: So, when you started Band of Horses, making the jump
[15:47] Speaker 2: from being the guy in the back who's supporting everybody,
[15:50] Speaker 2: and you know, helping other people get a foothold in
[15:54] Speaker 2: the scene and get you know, the band to grow
[15:57] Speaker 2: and stuff like that. When all of a sudden it
[15:59] Speaker 2: becomes you and it's your work and you're out there,
[16:02] Speaker 2: you're the front person. Was that a big transition for
[16:04] Speaker 2: you or did that happen seem to happen more naturally.
[16:08] Speaker 3: No, it's a transition. I still like I feel I
[16:11] Speaker 3: still feel like I'm like reeling from it in a
[16:13] Speaker 3: way where it's like I've come now twenty some years later,
[16:20] Speaker 3: I do feel like, Okay, I know what I'm doing,
[16:22] Speaker 3: but it took a while to get there where I'm
[16:24] Speaker 3: like it could all just fall apart in front of
[16:27] Speaker 3: everyone right here, you know, Like and even times where
[16:30] Speaker 3: I've like lost my voice or something been sick on
[16:32] Speaker 3: the road, I'm like, oh, there, it is, there, it
[16:36] Speaker 3: is now, you can't do it.
[16:37] Speaker 2: And then oh, like you're waiting for something, Yeah.
[16:40] Speaker 3: Like waiting for like to either be exposed as a
[16:42] Speaker 3: fraud or like or not meant to be there in
[16:49] Speaker 3: that role. In some way, I kind of accepted that
[16:52] Speaker 3: I was gonna feel that way and I just had
[16:54] Speaker 3: to push through that. But somewhere along the line, I
[16:57] Speaker 3: have like accepted that this is like my gig, you know,
[17:01] Speaker 3: and I am good at it and I love and
[17:05] Speaker 3: I've found a way to grow in that space and
[17:10] Speaker 3: really and love it and cherish it and miss it
[17:13] Speaker 3: when I'm not doing it.
[17:15] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's yeah. So your two thousand and six
[17:19] Speaker 2: album Everything All the Time, turns twenty this year. Man,
[17:24] Speaker 2: So how long were you writing songs before that album
[17:27] Speaker 2: came out?
[17:28] Speaker 3: Ooh. I would say it took me a while to
[17:33] Speaker 3: get those up to snuff, probably about two years. I
[17:35] Speaker 3: think we started in two thousand and four. Yeah, okay, yeah,
[17:39] Speaker 3: so I didn't know how to play guitar or anything,
[17:41] Speaker 3: you know, I had like I was like dtuning the
[17:44] Speaker 3: pegs to you know, my hand is comfortable here, I'll
[17:48] Speaker 3: just work the strings around that. You know. I still
[17:51] Speaker 3: got them tattooed on me, just in case I forget.
[17:54] Speaker 2: What songs are those?
[17:55] Speaker 3: Uh, No, One's gonna Love You in the Funeral. Okay,
[17:58] Speaker 3: it's two different tunings, and I swear it makes no sense.
[18:01] Speaker 3: Every guitar check we've ever had is like it's kind
[18:04] Speaker 3: of a nightmare trying to line check those guitars. In
[18:07] Speaker 3: front of like a crowd, like, I don't know how
[18:09] Speaker 3: to what do you do with this? These strings? They
[18:13] Speaker 3: make no sense to another guitar player, But they're also
[18:16] Speaker 3: part of the sauce that I discovered down there writing
[18:19] Speaker 3: those first songs, not having any idea what to do.
[18:24] Speaker 3: So it took a while to get them to the
[18:26] Speaker 3: point of even I think playing live or sharing them
[18:31] Speaker 3: with any demos with like Phil k or somebody who
[18:35] Speaker 3: produced the record.
[18:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, do you remember the first time you played on stage,
[18:39] Speaker 2: like you sang your own songs on stage?
[18:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I do. There's this place called the
[18:45] Speaker 3: Sit and Spin in Seattle, and I still had the
[18:49] Speaker 3: poster actually a little flyer. We were first of four
[18:54] Speaker 3: on like a Wednesday night or something like that, and uh, yeah,
[18:57] Speaker 3: I had like a I was such I mean, I
[19:00] Speaker 3: was such a Freddy cat about it too. I would
[19:02] Speaker 3: sing with like a vocal processor thing that would just
[19:06] Speaker 3: like delay it and echo it so deeply that I
[19:08] Speaker 3: would it didn't really did not. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I
[19:13] Speaker 3: wish they made him for the best Man speeches, you know. Oh,
[19:18] Speaker 3: but any public speaking we need those delays. But but yeah,
[19:23] Speaker 3: I was I was nervous, but I do remember feeling like,
[19:29] Speaker 3: of course, like exhilarated, but relieved relieved that uh no
[19:33] Speaker 3: one through tomatoes or whatever.
[19:36] Speaker 2: You know, did you get any reaction, like real time
[19:38] Speaker 2: reaction from the crowd, Like did people seem into it?
[19:42] Speaker 3: Yeah? I think there was a sense already that this
[19:45] Speaker 3: was going to be a thing, and and I knew,
[19:49] Speaker 3: I mean it was you could see it quickly up there.
[19:51] Speaker 3: We also had like dueling weekly magazines. You know, there's
[19:55] Speaker 3: like who's got the better music coverage of the scene.
[19:57] Speaker 3: You know, it was there's at least two, there's at
[19:59] Speaker 3: least two and uh, you know someone's writing about it.
[20:02] Speaker 3: In the first week you played a show, all of
[20:04] Speaker 3: a sudden you're Seattle famous in the in the Gnarly
[20:08] Speaker 3: Times or whatever. Uh for uh for starting a new
[20:12] Speaker 3: band and generating buzz?
[20:15] Speaker 2: Was your Was the sound of the band different than
[20:17] Speaker 2: what else was going on locally? Like, did you guys
[20:19] Speaker 2: stand out as as a new sound?
[20:23] Speaker 3: Yeah? I guess we kind of did. Now thinking about it,
[20:26] Speaker 3: because whether I like it or not, my my southernness,
[20:32] Speaker 3: you know, my accent, my vibe, I mean, I'm very
[20:36] Speaker 3: like just like I identify as y'all. You know what
[20:40] Speaker 3: I mean, I am y'all. Y'all. It's just everything. I
[20:45] Speaker 3: say it constantly, So I do. I do think I
[20:48] Speaker 3: put some y'all in that alternative you know that y'a
[20:51] Speaker 3: alternative was? Was?
[20:53] Speaker 2: Is that a thing? Alternative?
[20:54] Speaker 3: It was? We talked about it back in the day.
[20:57] Speaker 3: I don't know if anyone's really uh stuck with it,
[20:59] Speaker 3: but uh yeah, but it was because you had like
[21:03] Speaker 3: people like let's say, the Supersuckers from Tucson. They ended
[21:06] Speaker 3: up coming up to Seattle and living and they had
[21:08] Speaker 3: like a kind of country punk thing going on. And
[21:11] Speaker 3: you know, I grew up on the Stones, but like
[21:14] Speaker 3: and Neil Young and and like the Almond Brothers and stuff.
[21:19] Speaker 3: So I was I think I was bringing something that
[21:21] Speaker 3: was that was a little bit different. Yeah, I don't know.
[21:26] Speaker 3: I think it was mostly the fact that I was
[21:27] Speaker 3: just like it was so echoey and a bit more
[21:30] Speaker 3: psychedelic before it got kind of cleaned up in the
[21:33] Speaker 3: process that I was probably leaning more towards Jan's addiction
[21:38] Speaker 3: than maybe even say like the My Morning Jacket stuff
[21:41] Speaker 3: or something. I think a lot of that stuff snuck
[21:45] Speaker 3: in there and built a spill and flaming lips I
[21:47] Speaker 3: was listening to a lot of that stuff, so I
[21:48] Speaker 3: was singing a bit more of a higher register where
[21:51] Speaker 3: a lot of the Seattle bands there was still a
[21:53] Speaker 3: lot of like math rock going on, a lot of
[21:56] Speaker 3: post punk vibes, a lot of still like K Records
[22:01] Speaker 3: pop stuff still was like, uh was popping off, and
[22:05] Speaker 3: then you had like this new kind of macho rock
[22:08] Speaker 3: scene that subpop was having a go a little era with.
[22:13] Speaker 3: There's like a lot of like everyone's wearing black and
[22:17] Speaker 3: getting sleeve tattoos today and they're all dancing, you know.
[22:22] Speaker 3: It was We definitely were a different kind of vibe
[22:25] Speaker 3: where it was swinging wild in all directions, which is nice.
[22:31] Speaker 3: But yeah, for some I think we were melodic enough
[22:33] Speaker 3: to uh to catch people's eye.
[22:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the build up to releasing the first album? Like,
[22:41] Speaker 2: were you a band that played out all the time?
[22:44] Speaker 2: Did you tour? Did you play outside of Seattle? Was
[22:48] Speaker 2: your set covers? Was it original songs?
[22:51] Speaker 3: Like?
[22:51] Speaker 2: Tell me about the lead up to putting out the
[22:53] Speaker 2: first album?
[22:55] Speaker 3: Cool? Yeah, Well I was lucky that well I had
[23:00] Speaker 3: become friends with Sam Beam from Iron and Wine. He's
[23:02] Speaker 3: also from the same town that I'm from. In the
[23:05] Speaker 3: middle of South Carolina and he's a my brother age.
[23:09] Speaker 3: They were buddies, and I had met him one time
[23:13] Speaker 3: coming home for like a Christmas and I heard his
[23:15] Speaker 3: songs in his truck and I was like, what though,
[23:18] Speaker 3: this is crazy, Like, dude, you've got like something going here.
[23:22] Speaker 3: And I was lucky enough to dub some of those
[23:26] Speaker 3: songs down to another cassette tape and bring them with
[23:29] Speaker 3: me up to Seattle and and kind of introduce his
[23:35] Speaker 3: music to the subpop folks. And and my friend Howard
[23:40] Speaker 3: in Chicago, who worked with Thrill Jockey and Overcoat Records,
[23:44] Speaker 3: I was like, y'all gotta check out Sam Beamstaf. So
[23:47] Speaker 3: he ends up getting signed and kind of popping off
[23:49] Speaker 3: right around that a little bit, A little bit that day,
[23:54] Speaker 3: for sure, that day for sure. Oh man, I know. Actually,
[24:01] Speaker 3: you get one of those and you think all those
[24:02] Speaker 3: labels are going to listen to you the next time, right, No, No,
[24:06] Speaker 3: this was one. This is once in a lifetime here.
[24:08] Speaker 3: So so luckily Sam starts popping off right around the
[24:14] Speaker 3: time that horses was starting, and he took us out
[24:17] Speaker 3: on tour of the United States. Yeah, we were like
[24:21] Speaker 3: went around mostly in the South, open up for Iron
[24:25] Speaker 3: and Wine, which was a huge learning experience for us.
[24:29] Speaker 3: I mean for me as a as a singing person,
[24:32] Speaker 3: but also for just like the level of operation compared
[24:34] Speaker 3: to even the band that I was in before. It
[24:36] Speaker 3: was just like, Okay, this is a this is how
[24:39] Speaker 3: you tour, you know, and uh, it's funny. I ended
[24:43] Speaker 3: up getting in some way helping Sam get sign the subpop.
[24:47] Speaker 3: We end up open up for him two nights in Seattle,
[24:50] Speaker 3: and in turn, he gets me kind of signed a
[24:53] Speaker 3: subpop from all the way across the country. You know,
[24:55] Speaker 3: these two dudes in Irmo, South Carolina somehow end up
[24:59] Speaker 3: connected to Seattle via each other. Yeah, yeah, so that
[25:05] Speaker 3: was amazing he and yeah, that that process of of
[25:09] Speaker 3: seeing how Sam crafts his songs and then translates them
[25:14] Speaker 3: onto the stage and becomes also from maybe a bedroom
[25:18] Speaker 3: type of recording vibe all of a sudden in front
[25:22] Speaker 3: of you know, hundreds and hundreds of people. I kind
[25:25] Speaker 3: of followed his lead. He was very much like a
[25:29] Speaker 3: mentor in that way.
[25:31] Speaker 2: Nice. So what specifically did you pick up from him?
[25:34] Speaker 2: Like as far as performing.
[25:36] Speaker 3: Well, I still pick up from him his freedom. He
[25:41] Speaker 3: expresses himself so freely on stage and in front of
[25:46] Speaker 3: people with whether it's you know, playing different different ways
[25:52] Speaker 3: of playing songs that he's written a long time ago,
[25:54] Speaker 3: and challenging the audience in a way not and just
[25:57] Speaker 3: being unafraid to still make artful expression out of something
[26:03] Speaker 3: that doesn't have to be it doesn't you know, you
[26:05] Speaker 3: could serve it on a clean platter, you know. And
[26:07] Speaker 3: I like that he's messy with it and he's brave.
[26:11] Speaker 3: I'm not as brave. I'm a bit more loyal to
[26:14] Speaker 3: the recorded versions, but but he he's showed me so much.
[26:20] Speaker 3: I mean, how long you got It might be a
[26:21] Speaker 3: whole different other podcast, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still
[26:24] Speaker 3: learning so much from Sam. And we just got off
[26:27] Speaker 3: a tour last year together again, which is crazy. That's now,
[26:31] Speaker 3: you know, twenty five years ago that we started touring together.
[26:34] Speaker 3: I'm still learning things and and I hope, I hope
[26:39] Speaker 3: I have a bit more steady footing to maybe where
[26:42] Speaker 3: he maybe he learns a couple of things from me
[26:44] Speaker 3: too along the way.
[26:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure.
[26:46] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[26:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I was listening to the album that
[26:50] Speaker 2: you put out the live at the Ryman, Yeah, and
[26:54] Speaker 2: I was thinking about the way that you play the
[26:56] Speaker 2: songs live. And it's funny that you said that about Sam,
[26:59] Speaker 2: how he has the courage to kind of like mix
[27:01] Speaker 2: stuff up or try new, try a new approach to
[27:04] Speaker 2: a song. Do you find that you play the songs
[27:07] Speaker 2: that maybe are like the bigger, like hit songs, more straight,
[27:12] Speaker 2: and then you feel more freedom to kind of bug
[27:15] Speaker 2: out on the other ones that maybe are the deeper cuts.
[27:19] Speaker 3: Well. An easy way of explaining this would be, I
[27:23] Speaker 3: don't I'm still not as like musician I'm still not
[27:27] Speaker 3: that much of a musician about it. Like I'm like,
[27:30] Speaker 3: I just want to, like I want the song to
[27:32] Speaker 3: get off, like I want it to just go. I
[27:34] Speaker 3: want the impact to be how people are feeling about
[27:38] Speaker 3: finally finally getting to experience it. I'm trying to hit
[27:41] Speaker 3: them and their feels as hard as I can. And
[27:44] Speaker 3: for me, that's like not messing up, you know, because
[27:48] Speaker 3: I think I might come on glued completely. It gets
[27:51] Speaker 3: a little bit squirrely, like even trying to jam. We've
[27:54] Speaker 3: been on like the show the Jules Holland Show out
[27:56] Speaker 3: of England, and even on like these shows where you
[27:59] Speaker 3: have to like we're gonna start the show and all
[28:01] Speaker 3: the bands are like jamming in the round. We had
[28:03] Speaker 3: to do it, like they had to start over twice,
[28:04] Speaker 3: just because I don't know how to jam bro I
[28:06] Speaker 3: don't know where to put my fingers on threat board
[28:09] Speaker 3: because these tunings are so weird it's crazy. Yeah.
[28:15] Speaker 2: I like that, all right. So I want to ask
[28:19] Speaker 2: you specifically a little bit about this album, Like now,
[28:23] Speaker 2: twenty years later, what's the personality of this album for you? Like,
[28:28] Speaker 2: how do you describe this album?
[28:31] Speaker 3: Wow? Well, I had to like go back and listen
[28:33] Speaker 3: to it, and I haven't. I never listened to our records.
[28:36] Speaker 3: Once it's done, I'm like good, you know, And it
[28:39] Speaker 3: was it was out of here, yeah, And it was
[28:41] Speaker 3: nerve wracking too for to have like this kind of
[28:44] Speaker 3: immediate success where all of a sudden, you know, we'd
[28:49] Speaker 3: walk into a bar and it was like playing on
[28:51] Speaker 3: the bar speakers, you know, and you're like, I gotta
[28:54] Speaker 3: get out of here. I can't. This is weird, you know.
[28:56] Speaker 3: So I've kind of I've hidden from it and all
[29:01] Speaker 3: of it's amateurism, I don't know. Just like the way
[29:05] Speaker 3: I sang even, I was like, oh my god, this
[29:08] Speaker 3: is so weird. It's so weird. It's like dysmorphia or
[29:12] Speaker 3: something like that. I'm like, that's so weird. I can't
[29:14] Speaker 3: you know.
[29:15] Speaker 2: And how's it different than you sing?
[29:16] Speaker 1: Now?
[29:16] Speaker 2: Would you say, oh, man.
[29:19] Speaker 3: Well, it sounds very that voice sounds very like closed
[29:24] Speaker 3: and restrained and and just not there's not enough breath
[29:29] Speaker 3: in there, and it's just it freaks me out. But
[29:32] Speaker 3: also I would still criticize the voice I have now,
[29:36] Speaker 3: I'm sure, but yeah, I had to kind of give
[29:42] Speaker 3: in to the overall vibe and just listen to what
[29:45] Speaker 3: everyone else was doing, the other musicians. Listening to them
[29:50] Speaker 3: was more like it kind of allowed me to accept
[29:54] Speaker 3: it a bit easier and get the whole vibe that
[29:57] Speaker 3: Phil the producer was making. And just the soundscapes of
[30:01] Speaker 3: everything is pretty. It was pretty revealing to me there
[30:04] Speaker 3: to day, I'm like, this is actually kind of this
[30:06] Speaker 3: kind of its kind of hits all right, got you.
[30:11] Speaker 3: I'm grateful for the for all the rough stuff back then. Yeah,
[30:15] Speaker 3: and im and I'm really proud of the other musicians
[30:18] Speaker 3: that we all punched above our weight to a great
[30:21] Speaker 3: degree to to also meet Phil's expectations, which was this
[30:24] Speaker 3: is a this is a moment in time that deserves
[30:26] Speaker 3: to be captured and preserved and uh, and you must
[30:31] Speaker 3: give it every bit of of your effort, you know,
[30:35] Speaker 3: to to really make it something bigger than yourself. And
[30:40] Speaker 3: so I see it as yeah, an an awkward, scrappy,
[30:45] Speaker 3: scrappy new dad that's uh, it's gonna take some licks
[30:49] Speaker 3: before he figures out, you know, remembers to bring diapers
[30:52] Speaker 3: with him when he goes to the store just in
[30:55] Speaker 3: case anything goes down. Yep, I listened to it last night.
[30:59] Speaker 2: I had Oh you listened to it last night.
[31:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. I listened to the first side of it two
[31:04] Speaker 3: days ago, and I was like, oh man, it's like
[31:06] Speaker 3: I don't want, I don't want to listen to the
[31:08] Speaker 3: other but I did it. I was like, I got to.
[31:11] Speaker 3: I have to do my research to make sure I
[31:12] Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about. So yeah, I'm pretty familiar
[31:16] Speaker 3: with it.
[31:16] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry you had that experience.
[31:22] Speaker 3: That sounds cute. This is not good for promo, but yeah, no,
[31:27] Speaker 3: it's just it's just hard to look at old pictures
[31:29] Speaker 3: of yourself.
[31:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, yes, yes, Okay, So are there
[31:34] Speaker 2: any memorable sessions you remember, like any of the songs
[31:38] Speaker 2: that you know, maybe something memorable happened in the studio
[31:44] Speaker 2: or all of a sudden the song started to work,
[31:46] Speaker 2: it makes sense, or maybe a funny story around recording
[31:49] Speaker 2: one of the songs.
[31:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was I'm sure for fulfill the producer.
[31:53] Speaker 3: I'm sure it was just a you know, NonStop follies
[31:59] Speaker 3: with us. But you know, I didn't know what to
[32:02] Speaker 3: do with my hands while singing. I've only been singing
[32:06] Speaker 3: at to this point with the guitar in my hands.
[32:08] Speaker 3: So I said, you're in a studio. I didn't know
[32:10] Speaker 3: where to put my hands without making noise, like you know,
[32:14] Speaker 3: putting in my pockets and you got keys in your pockets.
[32:16] Speaker 3: Stop doing that, you know. So I took to the
[32:19] Speaker 3: only thing that was available was this like serrated bread
[32:22] Speaker 3: knife that I would like just holding my hands kind
[32:25] Speaker 3: of waving around, just to make sure I didn't make
[32:27] Speaker 3: any noise while singing. Stuff like that, I mean serious
[32:31] Speaker 3: greenhorn stuff where you just don't have any prior knowledge
[32:35] Speaker 3: of what to do much less I tell you what,
[32:39] Speaker 3: like trying to play guitar. It's one thing to like
[32:42] Speaker 3: write the songs and find the melody and then get
[32:45] Speaker 3: over yourself to write lyrics that you're not afraid to display.
[32:49] Speaker 3: But now it's like you gotta be able to play
[32:51] Speaker 3: those guitars like adequately for Phil who has a very
[32:56] Speaker 3: high standard set. So I was like, I mean, I've
[32:59] Speaker 3: never played guitar like that before, and where you're playing
[33:02] Speaker 3: something over and over trying to make someone feel good
[33:05] Speaker 3: about it, even though you know they're just like accepting
[33:08] Speaker 3: it's as good as it's going to get. You know.
[33:10] Speaker 3: That kind of that kind of pressure was like was
[33:14] Speaker 3: kind of scary, you know, or or seeing you know,
[33:16] Speaker 3: friends deal with like trying to keep a steady tempo
[33:20] Speaker 3: or to do these things that were he was really
[33:24] Speaker 3: lifting us up into a into a weight class that
[33:28] Speaker 3: we weren't ready to be in. So it was it
[33:31] Speaker 3: was terrifying and and also just being a bit clueless
[33:37] Speaker 3: that it would that it would catch on or anything
[33:39] Speaker 3: I was trying. I tried to not finish what would
[33:42] Speaker 3: become like our flagship or bell Cow song the funeral.
[33:46] Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, we'll just save it for the
[33:48] Speaker 3: next one. It's too hard to pull off. We'll just
[33:50] Speaker 3: put this other song on there instead. And I think
[33:54] Speaker 3: Phil and the label were like, bro, finish that song
[33:56] Speaker 3: that is like the song you know, the I was
[34:00] Speaker 3: just clueless, you know, I didn't even want and when
[34:02] Speaker 3: we were done, I didn't even choose that one to
[34:04] Speaker 3: be a single. I'm like, I've always been clueless about
[34:07] Speaker 3: like what are gonna like about it? I guess. So
[34:10] Speaker 3: I'm just like, I guess it's if I remember anything.
[34:13] Speaker 3: Is that I didn't know nothing, you know, and I
[34:17] Speaker 3: still kind of don't.
[34:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, what were you writing the funeral about? Do you
[34:21] Speaker 2: remember what was happening in your life at that time,
[34:23] Speaker 2: like what you were even thinking about.
[34:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a mixture of living out
[34:31] Speaker 3: west and having to go home for like Christmas to
[34:35] Speaker 3: like see my family and stuff like that, and like
[34:38] Speaker 3: having to like deal with I don't know, like uh,
[34:45] Speaker 3: just awkward conversations and just social anxiety. I think social
[34:50] Speaker 3: anxiety was a big part of it, where I'm just like, oh,
[34:53] Speaker 3: this is all just this is all brutal. I don't
[34:57] Speaker 3: want to have to like talk in front of people
[34:59] Speaker 3: and like answer questions about myself. And then the growing
[35:04] Speaker 3: anxiety I think of just growing older and the fear
[35:09] Speaker 3: of the fear of losing like my parents and and
[35:17] Speaker 3: that like I'm just yeah, death, losing people like to death,
[35:22] Speaker 3: or or even sometimes hearing you know, other people's stories,
[35:26] Speaker 3: you know, some when people lose unrequired love or whatever.
[35:30] Speaker 3: You know, it's like, uh, it just it really messes
[35:34] Speaker 3: me up, I guess, and yeah, still does to this day.
[35:37] Speaker 3: I'm still terrified of of dealing with when people got
[35:42] Speaker 3: to go move on. So uh yeah, I think there was.
[35:46] Speaker 3: It was a mixture of those things, my own crippling
[35:48] Speaker 3: social anxiety and then the fear of mortality.
[35:54] Speaker 2: Had you lost anyone who was close to you at that.
[35:56] Speaker 3: Point friends, Yeah, but no real close family members to
[36:02] Speaker 3: that point. Yeaheah, nothing, It.
[36:05] Speaker 2: Was just more of a fear of it rather than
[36:06] Speaker 2: an experience.
[36:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which is which is maybe just a human
[36:10] Speaker 3: condition thing that I just happened to have elevated or something.
[36:15] Speaker 3: And sometimes yeah, it's other people's stories make me cry
[36:18] Speaker 3: like that, just people like people go through that pain.
[36:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you remember what it was about that song?
[36:28] Speaker 2: Like at what point were you were you stuck? Like
[36:31] Speaker 2: what made it hard for you to finish the guitar?
[36:35] Speaker 3: The guitar? I remember, I was just getting kind of
[36:39] Speaker 3: exhausted by Phil's expectations of where it needed to get to,
[36:45] Speaker 3: you know, and I physically didn't feel like I could
[36:48] Speaker 3: pull it off, so I just had to. I think
[36:53] Speaker 3: I probably gave up at least one time. I was like,
[36:56] Speaker 3: I don't know, I can do it. It's just if
[36:58] Speaker 3: it's not good enough for you, we'll just put it
[37:00] Speaker 3: on the next album. I'll get better Phil, you know.
[37:04] Speaker 3: But no, I think it was just a growing moment
[37:10] Speaker 3: where I had to get up and play big boy ball.
[37:13] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well that's good that you didn't have
[37:15] Speaker 2: someone else step in and just do the guitar part.
[37:18] Speaker 2: You could have.
[37:18] Speaker 3: Just sure I still had help. Don't worry. I'm sure.
[37:20] Speaker 3: I okay, I'm sure I still had the village lifting
[37:23] Speaker 3: me up. Don't worry.
[37:24] Speaker 2: Who else had Phil work? What other bands had Phil
[37:26] Speaker 2: worked with at the time, Like were you thinking of
[37:28] Speaker 2: those people? And be like damn when he worked with
[37:31] Speaker 2: the Black Crows, like they were probably killing it? Or
[37:33] Speaker 2: whoever he worked with?
[37:34] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he was working with a lot of bands
[37:38] Speaker 3: that I admired, like and do you still like Built
[37:41] Speaker 3: the Spill and Modest Mouse and the Shins and God
[37:49] Speaker 3: Countless bands, Lesavi FIV was a band that I really love.
[37:53] Speaker 3: And the guitars and stuff his his his vivid sound
[38:00] Speaker 3: textures and things were or what drew me to him
[38:04] Speaker 3: wanting to work with him. But then it's like immediately
[38:07] Speaker 3: like Buyer's remorse were like, I'm gonna have to I'm
[38:10] Speaker 3: really going to have to get my level up to
[38:13] Speaker 3: what he needs to be able to pull that off.
[38:15] Speaker 2: You know, that's a nice challenge though.
[38:17] Speaker 3: It's helped. I mean it it helped, you know, move
[38:20] Speaker 3: us up another step into being to being whatever we
[38:23] Speaker 3: are now, whatever that is.
[38:31] Speaker 1: Well, nas break and we're back with Ben Bridwell.
[38:38] Speaker 2: So you said that the album kind of started to
[38:40] Speaker 2: pick up. How did you know, Like, how did you
[38:42] Speaker 2: know that it was? You said you would hear it
[38:45] Speaker 2: when you walked into bars. Was it being played on
[38:48] Speaker 2: the radio? Like how did you get a sense that?
[38:50] Speaker 2: It was? Kind of like catching on your time back then?
[38:55] Speaker 3: For sure? And we were so lucky to have to
[38:57] Speaker 3: be in Seattle where k XB was lifting up so many,
[39:03] Speaker 3: so many local bands. I mean, they've really helped grow
[39:07] Speaker 3: a scene. And I knew it from work and the
[39:09] Speaker 3: label side of it and getting some of my bands
[39:12] Speaker 3: over to k XP, you know. So it was amazing
[39:15] Speaker 3: to be on that receiving end of their affection at
[39:18] Speaker 3: the time, and it starts to pick up I think
[39:21] Speaker 3: the real like because very early in the process, we
[39:26] Speaker 3: went to Europe to play a couple of shows, and
[39:29] Speaker 3: we played in Norway at this festival, and people, these
[39:33] Speaker 3: Norwegian people were singing back to us. Whether it was
[39:37] Speaker 3: correct or not, it was just like mind blowing. These
[39:41] Speaker 3: people even heard of us and decided to come watch
[39:46] Speaker 3: and listen. But the fact that they knew the words
[39:48] Speaker 3: to our songs is like, this is something that I mean,
[39:51] Speaker 3: that was like huge expectation blown right there. You know,
[39:56] Speaker 3: we actually might we actually might be here for a bit.
[40:00] Speaker 2: That's cool. What was your first time in Europe?
[40:02] Speaker 3: Like, oh, Greenhorns? Just you know, we already you know,
[40:09] Speaker 3: we I've I had no problem living that that cliche
[40:14] Speaker 3: of like let's let's go get it, you know, let's
[40:18] Speaker 3: drink all the drinks and and be silly, you know,
[40:24] Speaker 3: and be and kind of ride the wave of it
[40:27] Speaker 3: because it's probably fleeting, you know, it's it's more than
[40:30] Speaker 3: likely fleeting. So we enjoyed ourselves and shortly thereafter real
[40:37] Speaker 3: life luckily intervened and and I had my first child,
[40:42] Speaker 3: like along before the second record came out, So we
[40:45] Speaker 3: didn't get all that. It wasn't all that long of
[40:47] Speaker 3: getting to live like this, you know, kind of imaginary
[40:52] Speaker 3: rock star thing. It was real life came to help
[40:55] Speaker 3: ground me pretty soon.
[40:56] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that'll do. The kid'll do that. Did you
[40:59] Speaker 2: ever get to like tear up a hotel room or
[41:02] Speaker 2: anything like that, like throw TV's out the.
[41:04] Speaker 3: Window, y'all? I am way too respectful to do that.
[41:09] Speaker 3: I would Oh my god, my parents, they would, they
[41:13] Speaker 3: would be so disappointed in me. There's no way, no,
[41:16] Speaker 3: there's no way. I'm not trashing any I clean up
[41:19] Speaker 3: for the housekeeping, you know, I do. I still to
[41:22] Speaker 3: this day, will clean up for housekeeping.
[41:24] Speaker 2: That's so nice? Was it so once you once you
[41:29] Speaker 2: were experiencing that, like fame and riding high and partying
[41:33] Speaker 2: and all that, Like, was that different than you expected
[41:36] Speaker 2: it to be? Or was it exactly what you hoped
[41:39] Speaker 2: it was?
[41:41] Speaker 3: All the expectations were being exceeded, There's no doubt. So
[41:44] Speaker 3: it's hard to be prepared for what you what your
[41:47] Speaker 3: personality might be like in those situations. But I already knew.
[41:50] Speaker 3: I already knew that was kind of not much of
[41:53] Speaker 3: a joiner for one. I'm not like a Jam. I
[41:56] Speaker 3: don't want to get together in Jam like I'm not
[41:59] Speaker 3: and I'm also not like trying to rung up on
[42:02] Speaker 3: the ladder, and I'm a bit nervous with meeting here
[42:09] Speaker 3: or or even like like industry people and stuff like.
[42:15] Speaker 3: I'm not much of a joiner. So I shouldn't have
[42:19] Speaker 3: I shouldn't be surprised by how lonely the job would be.
[42:24] Speaker 3: I shouldn't. I shouldn't be surprised by it because I'm
[42:28] Speaker 3: already a bit of an isolated kind of personality anyways.
[42:33] Speaker 3: But maybe the fact that I didn't expect it to
[42:37] Speaker 3: kind of become the safe place. And you know, when
[42:42] Speaker 3: your ego is people can you know, pump up your
[42:46] Speaker 3: ego at every every turn. I'm surprised that I was
[42:51] Speaker 3: able to want to avoid it, you know, like I
[42:54] Speaker 3: don't want that. I don't want to see us on
[42:57] Speaker 3: the late night TV thing. I'm not gonna watch it.
[43:00] Speaker 3: I'm not gonna watch the performance. I'm not gonna listen
[43:03] Speaker 3: to this. So I'm I'm glad that I've been able
[43:09] Speaker 3: to avoid a lot of that ego pump and stuff.
[43:12] Speaker 3: But I'm sure it finds its way in other ways.
[43:15] Speaker 2: You know how is a transition for you becoming a dad,
[43:18] Speaker 2: like transitioning from Okay, we got we have the albums out,
[43:21] Speaker 2: it's doing well, we're touring internationally, and then you come
[43:25] Speaker 2: home and have such a different life, the domestic life.
[43:29] Speaker 2: How is that for you?
[43:30] Speaker 3: Well, I'm still evolving and learning. You know, I'm forty seven,
[43:35] Speaker 3: I have four children. They're all daughters in between the
[43:40] Speaker 3: ages of ten and seventeen. So we're like, we're in
[43:43] Speaker 3: a wild spot right now. But it's amazing and I'm
[43:48] Speaker 3: so I just I love this. I love this time
[43:51] Speaker 3: that we have right now in their development and their
[43:54] Speaker 3: brain growth and our bonding time is just so amazing.
[43:58] Speaker 3: And it's only got room to still grow bigger. And
[44:01] Speaker 3: I'm so enthused by them. They are my masterpiece. And
[44:05] Speaker 3: this music thing is kind of a byproduct, honestly. Oh
[44:10] Speaker 3: and so it's it's it's there's been a learning curve too,
[44:15] Speaker 3: of just I think with anybody, you're you're learning to
[44:20] Speaker 3: be less selfish and more patient and things like that.
[44:25] Speaker 3: So I'm still I'm still growing in that. But I
[44:28] Speaker 3: feel like I'm in a really great spot where I
[44:32] Speaker 3: don't know, I'm just I feel like the sky is
[44:33] Speaker 3: the limit for us and our love for one another. So, uh,
[44:39] Speaker 3: it's only getting better, and it's it's only getting bigger.
[44:43] Speaker 3: And I feel like I'm I have more patients to
[44:46] Speaker 3: ride with them through all this you know, development they're
[44:50] Speaker 3: going through and whatever they need from me. So I'm
[44:53] Speaker 3: I'm here for and more.
[44:55] Speaker 2: How's the co parenting situation going? How's the post divorce?
[45:01] Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't want to answer that, that's
[45:03] Speaker 2: totally fine. We don't even know.
[45:05] Speaker 3: I'm an open book with respect.
[45:08] Speaker 4: Uh yeah, it's it's you know, it's it's it's strange
[45:13] Speaker 4: because you have to let go of how someone else
[45:16] Speaker 4: is parenting your children and you have to be able
[45:18] Speaker 4: to allow them to also live their life and how
[45:23] Speaker 4: they see things, you know.
[45:23] Speaker 3: So that's that's really the the balance you're trying to seek.
[45:28] Speaker 3: And and I'm lucky to co parent with with the
[45:33] Speaker 3: woman that you know, we have at least like the
[45:36] Speaker 3: same core values and and that helps that that helps
[45:40] Speaker 3: answer a lot of questions. You know. Yeah, but it's
[45:45] Speaker 3: you know, not being married to some anymore. I'm like,
[45:49] Speaker 3: I've really been able to discover who I truly am
[45:52] Speaker 3: when I'm by myself and and what I expect in
[45:55] Speaker 3: any sort of partnership really, And god, I'm just so happy.
[46:00] Speaker 3: I'm just like so happy, and I'm good. I'm just
[46:05] Speaker 3: I'm just in such a good, happy place with being
[46:09] Speaker 3: in my own piece, you know, and just and and
[46:12] Speaker 3: creating a beautiful piece with my children that uh, no
[46:15] Speaker 3: one's allowed to mess it up, including me, you know.
[46:18] Speaker 2: Good good. I feel like the most recent interviews I
[46:21] Speaker 2: saw with you, you weren't. It didn't seem like you were.
[46:23] Speaker 2: Maybe it was more fresh and so I think maybe
[46:27] Speaker 2: you weren't as in such a settled place. So that's
[46:30] Speaker 2: good to hear.
[46:30] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, well I'll tell you what. For me,
[46:33] Speaker 3: and this job helped a lot to fuel even the
[46:37] Speaker 3: genetic curse of alcoholism. Uh and uh, you know, riding
[46:42] Speaker 3: with that through this crazy job was an interesting, interesting,
[46:48] Speaker 3: interesting road to fallow. But uh, I finally got that
[46:52] Speaker 3: nipped in the bud a couple of years ago, and
[46:54] Speaker 3: that has just been amazing. From my own piece, and
[46:59] Speaker 3: and just being able to deal with the world in general. Honestly,
[47:02] Speaker 3: it's it's night and day. How easier things are. I
[47:08] Speaker 3: quit you're at home.
[47:10] Speaker 2: Just like cold turkey.
[47:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I just kind of weaned myself off and
[47:15] Speaker 3: set a goal and never looked back.
[47:18] Speaker 2: Good for you.
[47:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awesome. I'm really I'm having a great time
[47:22] Speaker 3: and everything's easier. Honestly, Yeah, everything's just easier. I Mean
[47:26] Speaker 3: there's times where I'm like, God, it'd be easier at
[47:28] Speaker 3: the social function to get you know, to get some
[47:31] Speaker 3: drinks up in here or do with this anxiety. But
[47:34] Speaker 3: I found with uh, it was it was kind of
[47:37] Speaker 3: fueling more anxiety for me trying trying to kind of
[47:40] Speaker 3: kill that imposter syndrome and stuff like that. That just
[47:44] Speaker 3: the natural it's there backstage. You kind of get used
[47:47] Speaker 3: to trying to bury those feelings of you know, awkwardness
[47:52] Speaker 3: on the road and missing people at home, all those
[47:54] Speaker 3: feelings you're trying to bury them with that. But it
[47:56] Speaker 3: was only creating more anxiety for me to where I
[48:01] Speaker 3: was like, oh, what if we eliminated that one and see,
[48:05] Speaker 3: let's try to see if that helps in Uh. Yeah,
[48:08] Speaker 3: it just opened my world to a whole lot more,
[48:13] Speaker 3: a whole just big, brighter space to feel at peace
[48:18] Speaker 3: and to navigate, to navigate any kind of troubles.
[48:22] Speaker 2: How has it been with songwriting, Like has that changed
[48:25] Speaker 2: your processes at all writing new songs, like not being
[48:28] Speaker 2: able to drink or I imagine drinking was maybe somehow
[48:32] Speaker 2: part of that process. Did you have any fear that, like, oh,
[48:36] Speaker 2: maybe I can't write as well now?
[48:39] Speaker 3: Well, I think it still kind of persists in that.
[48:42] Speaker 3: I'm like, I used to go escape to write and drink,
[48:47] Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So it's like now that
[48:49] Speaker 3: you're only escaping to go I need to go escape
[48:51] Speaker 3: to the writing aspect, It's like, oh, there was this
[48:54] Speaker 3: whole other thing. I was a destination I was reaching too,
[48:57] Speaker 3: which was to finally be able to like to booze,
[49:00] Speaker 3: and so to get the motivation is different, right, Like
[49:06] Speaker 3: because it used to be like, Okay, I'm escaping like
[49:09] Speaker 3: this marriage for a second to go right you know.
[49:12] Speaker 3: Now it's like, damn, I'm so easy with everything. In
[49:15] Speaker 3: a way, it's like, Okay, I have to like force
[49:17] Speaker 3: myself to go deal with this stuff, you know, to
[49:20] Speaker 3: like or to like tap into things, you know, themes
[49:24] Speaker 3: that are uncomfortable to kind of to tread in. It's
[49:29] Speaker 3: it's it's harder to get the motivation to go into
[49:32] Speaker 3: the lab, you know what I mean. But I've found
[49:37] Speaker 3: that the clarity with which the job is performed is
[49:42] Speaker 3: a bit more keen, you know, I feel like, uh
[49:46] Speaker 3: and I feel totally different in the studio now, like
[49:51] Speaker 3: and singing on a mic, and and because I would
[49:54] Speaker 3: also even in the studio just like drinking to you know,
[49:57] Speaker 3: kill the kill the feelings, yeah, and kill the scaries.
[50:01] Speaker 3: But uh now I'm I feel like I sing better,
[50:04] Speaker 3: I perform better. Everything I do is just easier. So
[50:09] Speaker 3: like even with the new record, yet it's been hard
[50:12] Speaker 3: to find the damn the gut to go and really spill.
[50:19] Speaker 3: I do feel like the product isn't isn't diluted in
[50:24] Speaker 3: any way. The despair is the despair is still there,
[50:27] Speaker 3: you know, and the imagination is still there. I haven't
[50:29] Speaker 3: lost a minute of that. If anything, I feel like
[50:32] Speaker 3: my my mental capacity is just is a bit more focused.
[50:36] Speaker 3: It's so cool, I.
[50:37] Speaker 2: Hope, so amazing. Like still at this age, we're the
[50:40] Speaker 2: same age, but still at this age you can kind
[50:44] Speaker 2: of repair yourself.
[50:45] Speaker 3: Like that, really can, you really can. And it's never
[50:49] Speaker 3: too late. It's never too late to reverse the curse
[50:52] Speaker 3: whatever it may be. You know, I'm so just as
[50:56] Speaker 3: much as like you know, falling into this this band
[50:59] Speaker 3: thing and writing the songs. It's it's like, oh my god,
[51:01] Speaker 3: it's like it feels like a manifestation, you know, And
[51:05] Speaker 3: it kind of it happened, you know, out of nowhere.
[51:08] Speaker 3: I had no business being getting signed to subpoth and
[51:12] Speaker 3: going to Europe and stuff. I had no business doing that.
[51:15] Speaker 3: But here we are. I had no business also bucking
[51:19] Speaker 3: the trend of my ancestors and getting that thing turned
[51:24] Speaker 3: in the other direction. So yeah, it's anyone can do it.
[51:29] Speaker 3: You just gotta just kind of gotta buck up and
[51:32] Speaker 3: you know, hit it head on.
[51:34] Speaker 2: It takes a lot of guts, and it takes a
[51:36] Speaker 2: lot of perseverance too, because it's not easy.
[51:40] Speaker 3: Oh but it's easy once you start feeling good, once
[51:42] Speaker 3: you start.
[51:43] Speaker 2: Feeling till you start feeling better.
[51:46] Speaker 3: I would say I started to really notice that my
[51:50] Speaker 3: mood was so much lighter. I wouldn't say, like a
[51:54] Speaker 3: month and a half, two months, and I'm like, I
[51:56] Speaker 3: just felt a weight less weight on me, you know,
[52:00] Speaker 3: and my my good moods were lasting longer. Yeah, you know,
[52:05] Speaker 3: I was just yeah, just oh my god. Everything immediately
[52:09] Speaker 3: started to feel like it was easier to deal with
[52:11] Speaker 3: on a phone call, face to face and da Dennis office,
[52:16] Speaker 3: you know what I mean, or going to the school
[52:18] Speaker 3: functions and stuff. I'm not hiding a secret.
[52:20] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah that was brutal.
[52:23] Speaker 3: It's like you kind of always feel like you are
[52:25] Speaker 3: kind of like living this like dark other life kind
[52:28] Speaker 3: of thing that these the the rest of society. They
[52:31] Speaker 3: know that you're different because of your job in a way, right,
[52:34] Speaker 3: But when you're mixing and mingling with all these kids,
[52:36] Speaker 3: parents and teachers and stuff like that, it's like, oh,
[52:39] Speaker 3: you have no idea the darkness I'm caring around. Oh yeah,
[52:44] Speaker 3: not anymore.
[52:44] Speaker 2: I bet a lot of people have stuff though, you
[52:46] Speaker 2: know for sure it's a lot of people have stuff.
[52:54] Speaker 2: So tell me about the new album. What point in
[52:55] Speaker 2: the process are you at right now?
[52:57] Speaker 3: Supposed to be sending it to mixing was supposed to
[53:00] Speaker 3: about a couple of weeks ago. I'm I'm really trying
[53:03] Speaker 3: to strike a balance of being at home and working too.
[53:06] Speaker 3: But there's still some growing pains going on here where
[53:09] Speaker 3: I'm like it's hard to have my foot and and
[53:14] Speaker 3: and that creative space like that where because I really
[53:18] Speaker 3: dig in and I'm I'm all in when i'm and
[53:20] Speaker 3: I'm usually out of town when I do it when
[53:22] Speaker 3: it's time to like finish a project, especially to get
[53:27] Speaker 3: over that finish line. But right now I'm like, oh,
[53:30] Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not ready to send it all in yet.
[53:33] Speaker 3: So I'm I'm still himming in the hauling on a
[53:35] Speaker 3: couple of lyrical things. And I'm just like, come on,
[53:40] Speaker 3: You're better than this, bro, You're better than this. Don't
[53:42] Speaker 3: be don't be so basic. I just I kick my
[53:47] Speaker 3: own butt throughout the entire process. I'm sure I've done
[53:49] Speaker 3: it for every other project. It's just that I'm like,
[53:52] Speaker 3: I'm finding a new excuse. I'm like, well, if if
[53:55] Speaker 3: I was in a dang hotel room at night, you know,
[53:58] Speaker 3: and just like only thinking of that instead of like, oh, dang,
[54:01] Speaker 3: I gotta get kid to an orthodontist appointment tomorrow. You know,
[54:05] Speaker 3: I'm looking for excuses of why I'm not finishing it.
[54:07] Speaker 3: But but the answer would be it's just not good
[54:11] Speaker 3: enough yet.
[54:12] Speaker 2: So and you know that, like, yeah, do you know
[54:16] Speaker 2: that from just from within yourself or is it stuff
[54:20] Speaker 2: you're playing for other people in their reaction, or do
[54:23] Speaker 2: you just know like to me, it's not up to
[54:26] Speaker 2: snuff to.
[54:27] Speaker 3: Me, the stories aren't adding up completely. Okay, Like I'm
[54:31] Speaker 3: trying to describe something and I'm not doing as good
[54:35] Speaker 3: a job as I could if I could just lock
[54:37] Speaker 3: in once I've tapped into it and really describe it correctly.
[54:42] Speaker 3: Just some things are just clumsy. Somethings are just clumsy,
[54:45] Speaker 3: and that's not that's not good enough. If anything Phil
[54:48] Speaker 3: taught me also from that first record too, is like
[54:52] Speaker 3: this project deserves your full attention and all of your
[54:55] Speaker 3: ability to get it to that next that that higher
[54:58] Speaker 3: place where it can live forever. So he I think
[55:02] Speaker 3: he instilled that in me. Uh, and I carry it.
[55:04] Speaker 3: I carry it with you. I'm like, which is tough
[55:07] Speaker 3: because you're always gonna you could you could nitpick you know,
[55:11] Speaker 3: everything in your life, but no, at some point you
[55:15] Speaker 3: do have to let the thing go. And I will
[55:17] Speaker 3: because we got to start working this this reissue next month,
[55:21] Speaker 3: so I'll I'll finish it in the next couple of weeks.
[55:24] Speaker 3: I reckon, I will. Actually I'm not. I don't reckon.
[55:27] Speaker 3: I know I'm going to.
[55:28] Speaker 2: You're going to. Yeah, is there anything you can tell
[55:31] Speaker 2: us about it? The sound, any of the songs, like
[55:34] Speaker 2: anything that I'm sure a lot of people want to
[55:36] Speaker 2: know every little thing about it. What do you what
[55:39] Speaker 2: do you want to say about it?
[55:42] Speaker 3: Well, the record is a bit more organic in that
[55:48] Speaker 3: it's like there's not a lot of keyboards, if any
[55:51] Speaker 3: so far. I don't think there's not a lot of
[55:53] Speaker 3: like extra touches. It's it's a bit more. The songs
[55:56] Speaker 3: are a bit aggressive for one, and and yeah, and
[56:00] Speaker 3: that's always been kind of a thing, even if they
[56:02] Speaker 3: didn't make the cut. Sometimes I've always been into like
[56:07] Speaker 3: always wanting to be in a punk band anyways, and
[56:11] Speaker 3: always loving the rough and tumble nature of you know, uh,
[56:15] Speaker 3: punk rock and hindie rock and just sloppy art rock
[56:18] Speaker 3: and whatever. So this is a bit abrasive, i think
[56:24] Speaker 3: in a way, which is strange to not be mellowing
[56:27] Speaker 3: with age. But but and it's yeah, I'm still pissed off,
[56:32] Speaker 3: you know, I'm still I've always been ornery and cantankerous
[56:36] Speaker 3: and just mad, you know, but I'm so happy. I'm
[56:40] Speaker 3: so happy. It's weird too, because I'm like, I'm in
[56:43] Speaker 3: such a good place, and I'm like, oh.
[56:45] Speaker 2: Right, yeah, that's a funny thing that like you're not
[56:47] Speaker 2: all of a sudden you made the switch, like the
[56:48] Speaker 2: new album's all happy songs. I figured it out.
[56:52] Speaker 3: It is not, which is so weird because I think
[56:54] Speaker 3: a lot of people meet me like you seem like
[56:56] Speaker 3: such a happy dude, like why are your songs so sad?
[57:00] Speaker 3: And I'm and this is weird because a lot of
[57:03] Speaker 3: these songs I'm trying to get over the finish line
[57:05] Speaker 3: are written from the perspective of, you know, from a
[57:09] Speaker 3: couple of years now of accumulated experiences since the last one,
[57:14] Speaker 3: And I'm like, God, this guy was buzzkill, you know
[57:17] Speaker 3: what I mean. I'm like, how do I relate to
[57:19] Speaker 3: this guy too? But I'm always gonna be a bit
[57:22] Speaker 3: uh probably always a bitsive, pisson vinegar to some degree.
[57:27] Speaker 3: But I'm really having a great time. Please don't be alarmed.
[57:29] Speaker 3: I'm I don't need a wellness check. I'm doing great. Promise.
[57:34] Speaker 2: Have you ever just like messed around and made music
[57:37] Speaker 2: that sounds completely different than Band of Horses?
[57:40] Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, I mess around with lots of weird stuff
[57:43] Speaker 3: and I get I get obsessed on samples and stuff
[57:47] Speaker 3: like that, and I will I'll make I'll make like
[57:51] Speaker 3: cutting up audio and stuff like that from from you know,
[57:55] Speaker 3: like TV stuff or from other records and stuff like that. Yeah,
[57:58] Speaker 3: I'll get really obsessive with that kind of stuff. Sometimes
[58:01] Speaker 3: I'll get into like making beats. Sometimes I'll get into
[58:04] Speaker 3: making instrumental kind of ambient thing. Sometimes too, I'm really
[58:10] Speaker 3: into toys because I've never really again never been much
[58:13] Speaker 3: of a real musician, and that I'm gonna learn my craft.
[58:19] Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm always looking at new toys, new things,
[58:22] Speaker 3: new sources of inspiration all over the place. You know,
[58:27] Speaker 3: whether it's like we have songs where it's like a
[58:30] Speaker 3: song will be born out of a window being cracked
[58:32] Speaker 3: in my hotel room and it's paying a playing a pitch.
[58:34] Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna hone in on that
[58:37] Speaker 3: sound and try to write around that kind of stuff.
[58:40] Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm forever curious and messy with it. But yes,
[58:46] Speaker 3: i do love that stuff. But there's nothing like the
[58:48] Speaker 3: satisfaction for me of of also making music that my
[58:53] Speaker 3: brother and my dad and I can be like, you know,
[58:55] Speaker 3: at Christmas time, be like that slaps you know what
[58:59] Speaker 3: I'm saying. So that's kind of like that's where it
[59:01] Speaker 3: usually returns to home base, you know, and it's a
[59:04] Speaker 3: bit full circle here, but yeah, yeah, that kind of
[59:08] Speaker 3: southern end rock stuff is it's kind of our jam,
[59:13] Speaker 3: you know, it's really it's the cornerstone I think of
[59:17] Speaker 3: of of where we end usually back when we're listening
[59:20] Speaker 3: to other stuff around the stereo when we get together.
[59:23] Speaker 3: And I'm still making mixtapes for people, honestly, really absolutely,
[59:27] Speaker 3: I'm still. I mean, now it's what is a playlist now?
[59:30] Speaker 3: But my dad asked me. My dad had his birthday
[59:35] Speaker 3: two weeks ago and we had another snowstorms, so I
[59:38] Speaker 3: couldn't make it down to go see him. But he's like, hey,
[59:40] Speaker 3: when you do come back, will you burn me a CD?
[59:42] Speaker 3: You know I still got a CD burner. Yes, I'm
[59:45] Speaker 3: gonna burn you a new CD. So, uh, we're still
[59:47] Speaker 3: doing it.
[59:48] Speaker 2: What'd you put on it?
[59:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm waiting to go see him, but I know
[59:53] Speaker 3: he wants the new Horses stuff that I'm making. I
[59:55] Speaker 3: think he wants to be able to listen to it
[59:56] Speaker 3: in his car. That's what I am going to make
[59:59] Speaker 3: him A proper, a proper mix. For sure. He's he's due.
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: I was looking at your the Georgia Volume one mixtape
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: or the playlist sorry that you put up and Spotify,
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: And I was wondering, like, do blood, Sweat and Tears
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: go into that playlist? Like are you overthinking it? Like
[1:00:16] Speaker 2: or do you just throw stuff together and you're like,
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: all right, that's good.
[1:00:19] Speaker 3: The answer is I definitely overthink it and I always
[1:00:23] Speaker 3: feel like it's not enough. But and a lot of
[1:00:25] Speaker 3: that like mixing with messing with like cutting up audio
[1:00:28] Speaker 3: and stuff. Stem tell me that's from mixtapes. From mixtapes, Yeah,
[1:00:33] Speaker 3: I would have like you know, like the dual cassette
[1:00:37] Speaker 3: decks and then like the CD player and the CD burner,
[1:00:40] Speaker 3: you know, and I would I would kind of make
[1:00:42] Speaker 3: just like interludes in between songs and stuff like that
[1:00:44] Speaker 3: to two smooth transitions into different styles or whatever it know.
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: So yeah, very.
[1:00:50] Speaker 3: Much so in movie clips and stuff like that just
[1:00:52] Speaker 3: to make you know, somebody laugh. So a lot of
[1:00:57] Speaker 3: that stuff stems from it all comes back to making
[1:01:01] Speaker 3: mixtapes really, you know, and I'm just trying to make
[1:01:03] Speaker 3: and I'm trying to make one for my dad and
[1:01:05] Speaker 3: my brother and me within the band in a way.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: That's so cool. Okay, I want to ask you about
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: some of the specific songs here on this Georgia volume.
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: One playlist. What about RIM's imitation? Is it imitation? Man?
[1:01:22] Speaker 3: I just love Rim so much. And you know, Rim
[1:01:25] Speaker 3: really uh, Rim emboldened the art and indie and rock
[1:01:32] Speaker 3: community of the South, you know, to say like, oh
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: my god, we can do this, like you can actually
[1:01:38] Speaker 3: break through and and there's there's legit talent that needs
[1:01:45] Speaker 3: to be expressed here in the South that's not just
[1:01:48] Speaker 3: you know, uh, you know, country frat boy stuff. So
[1:01:55] Speaker 3: I love that song so much and it means a
[1:01:58] Speaker 3: lot to me. I used to listen to that song
[1:02:00] Speaker 3: with my two oldest kids when they were first going
[1:02:03] Speaker 3: to like pre k and stuff like that. We that's
[1:02:06] Speaker 3: we always gravitated toward that song. They just they love
[1:02:10] Speaker 3: that And I would start to play that I'm really superstitious,
[1:02:13] Speaker 3: and I'd play it like after a if Georgia won
[1:02:16] Speaker 3: a football game, you know, I'd have to like listen
[1:02:18] Speaker 3: to that song for fear that if I don't, we'll
[1:02:22] Speaker 3: lose the next game. Yeah, that kind of stuff. But yeah,
[1:02:26] Speaker 3: I love Rim so much. I saw something recently of
[1:02:29] Speaker 3: you know, like in office, all these people going around
[1:02:32] Speaker 3: like what's the best Rim song? And everyone's got a
[1:02:34] Speaker 3: different song, you know, And I saw I. This was
[1:02:37] Speaker 3: like four thirty in the morning when I saw this,
[1:02:38] Speaker 3: So I was like, dude, I don't know if I
[1:02:40] Speaker 3: could name mine. So I like started my own like
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: RIM playlist. This is just like two days ago, and
[1:02:45] Speaker 3: I'm like, it's like twenty five songs deep. I'm still
[1:02:49] Speaker 3: not satisfied with uh, with making sure that I've got
[1:02:52] Speaker 3: all my favorites in it.
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: You know, I like night Swimming.
[1:02:55] Speaker 3: Night Swimming is fantastic, so good, so good, and I
[1:02:59] Speaker 3: mean beautiful. There's still a lot of gold to go
[1:03:03] Speaker 3: mine in for in the RIM catalog that maybe got
[1:03:06] Speaker 3: kind of overlooked in those later years.
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: I feel the same way.
[1:03:09] Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, Perfect Circle, the perfect Circle gives me
[1:03:13] Speaker 3: chills from the top of my head to the tip
[1:03:16] Speaker 3: of my toes. Perfect Circle.
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: Okay, I need to listen to that as soon as
[1:03:19] Speaker 2: we're off. Since you spent time sort of like the band,
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: some of the band's formative years in Seattle, and this
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: was post grunge, of course, who looking back at like
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: the you know, grunge at its height, Like, who were
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: your favorite grunge bands?
[1:03:37] Speaker 3: Well, I was lucky that, you know, to have Me
[1:03:41] Speaker 3: and my friend group were like really lucky to have
[1:03:44] Speaker 3: older siblings. We were all like the babies of our
[1:03:47] Speaker 3: of our families, and our older siblings got us into
[1:03:50] Speaker 3: like my brother got me into mud Hunting before I
[1:03:52] Speaker 3: heard Nirvana, so it was like, but Nirvana to me
[1:03:56] Speaker 3: is like they're just so raw and real and good
[1:04:01] Speaker 3: to me, the songwriting is so good, like like Beatles
[1:04:04] Speaker 3: level good. Yeah, so it lives forever. But I I love,
[1:04:11] Speaker 3: I love mud Honey and I and I, I mean
[1:04:14] Speaker 3: I liked, I liked even like the stuff that wasn't
[1:04:19] Speaker 3: considered grunged but was like like pop like the Fastbacks
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: and stuff like that, or like there was like some
[1:04:25] Speaker 3: kind of garage type bands that were on like Espress Records,
[1:04:28] Speaker 3: and I mean, what was Tree people. They were like
[1:04:33] Speaker 3: Neil Young influenced. Yeah, they just didn't fit into like
[1:04:37] Speaker 3: whatever the grunge sound was, which is just a label, right,
[1:04:39] Speaker 3: But yeah, of the time frame, there's so many there's
[1:04:44] Speaker 3: such a well of inspiration up there that is undeniable.
[1:04:49] Speaker 3: But for me and Pearl Jam, I love Pearl Jam.
[1:04:51] Speaker 3: I grew to love Pearl Jam getting to know them
[1:04:53] Speaker 3: and torn with them.
[1:04:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, they seemed like super cool guys.
[1:04:56] Speaker 3: Absolutely and have great songs, but for me, like Nirvana
[1:05:01] Speaker 3: is really like top tier. Like I'm I feel like
[1:05:05] Speaker 3: lucky to have been alive and seen that happen me too.
[1:05:09] Speaker 2: I say that all the time. I feel like you're
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: so special and I love that there's only three of them.
[1:05:15] Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what in the world, there's a lot
[1:05:18] Speaker 3: of racket for just a few dudes.
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: That's right.
[1:05:22] Speaker 3: How's he doing that that guitar, Mike? How many guitars
[1:05:24] Speaker 3: are playings like one? Dude?
[1:05:25] Speaker 2: Oh?
[1:05:26] Speaker 3: Wow?
[1:05:27] Speaker 2: Okay, So thank you so much, Ben, I'm sorry I
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: took so much of your time. You're fun to talk to.
[1:05:32] Speaker 3: I didn't even notice if it was over and us
[1:05:35] Speaker 3: and no, you're amazing. Thank you so much for having me.
[1:05:37] Speaker 3: And I'm a fan of what y'all do, and I'm
[1:05:40] Speaker 3: just such a fan of music. I love that y'all
[1:05:42] Speaker 3: get underneath the surface of these stories and I really
[1:05:45] Speaker 3: appreciate what you do so respect and thank you for
[1:05:47] Speaker 3: having me. I really, I really am grateful and it's
[1:05:51] Speaker 3: nice to meet you.
[1:05:52] Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too. I can't wait to hear
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: the new album. When you hear you rock out.
[1:05:56] Speaker 3: Hey, it'll be fun, I swear. Just don't just don't
[1:05:59] Speaker 3: think I'm depressed, so I'm doing fine, cool all right.
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: feature in our favorites from Brand of Courses. Be sure
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[1:06:21] Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with the
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[1:06:48] Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.

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