# Storytelling: Discusses how Sylvia Moy helped save Stevie Wonder’s career when he risked being dropped by Motown.

An episode of [Money Making Conversations Master Class](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1264705641), 28 Jun 2026, 29 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/b1db7263-d1a3-4d00-8976-af62012aab44/8bc7c135-b2f6-4920-8c47-b46b014a9c2a/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=35a10561-3e1b-4d05-a529-af62012aab6a

Listen and subscribe to Money Making Conversations on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, www.moneymakingconversations.com/subscribe/ or wherever you listen to podcasts. New Money Making Conversations episodes drop daily. I want to alert you, so you don’t miss out on expert analysis and insider perspectives from my guests who provide tips that can help you uplift the community, improve your financial planning, motivation, or advice on how to be a successful entrepreneur. Keep winning! Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Dr. Margena Christian. Purpose of the Interview The conversation serves three primary purposes: • Highlight Dr. Christian’s career and influence • Showcasing her journey as a journalist, historian, and author rooted in Ebony and Jet magazine. • Promote her book • “It’s No Wonder: The Life and Times of Motown’s Legendary Songwriter Sylvia Moy.” • Preserve and correct Black cultural history • Emphasizing the importance of documenting overlooked contributors—particularly Black women like Sylvia Moy—whose impact has often gone uncredited. 🔑 Key Takeaways 1. Legacy of Black media institutions (Ebony & Jet) • Dr. Christian spent nearly two decades (1995–2014) at Johnson Publishing Company. • Jet and Ebony were central to Black visibility before social media, shaping careers and cultural narratives. • Being featured in these magazines was considered a milestone of success in the Black community. 👉 Insight: Media institutions played a critical role in documenting Black excellence and building public recognition. 2. Professional discipline and navigating the entertainment industry • Christian stressed the importance of understanding the difference between business and personal relationships. • She avoided distractions and maintained professionalism, even in celebrity-heavy environments. 👉 Insight: Success in media requires boundaries, focus, and clarity about one’s purpose. 3. Investigative storytelling and historical recovery • Her book began with a simple social media question: why hadn’t Sylvia Moy’s contributions been widely documented? \[ • She conducted deep archival and interview-based research to verify claims. 👉 Insight: True storytelling requires verification, curiosity, and persistence, not just surface-level narratives. 4. Sylvia Moy’s overlooked impact on Motown • Sylvia Moy helped save Stevie Wonder’s career when he risked being dropped. • She co-created the hit “Uptight,” which kept him signed. • Despite her role, she was denied proper producer credit, illustrating systemic inequities. 👉 Insight: Many foundational contributors—especially Black women—were historically under-credited or erased. 5. The importance of documenting history before it’s lost • Christian emphasizes that: • History may be hidden but not erased. • If stories aren’t told accurately, others may distort or erase them. 👉 Insight: Preserving cultural history is both a responsibility and a form of protection. 6. The power of lived experience and “being in the room” • Christian highlights her firsthand role in shaping media history—not just reporting on it. \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] • She reflects on witnessing major figures early in their careers. 👉 Insight: Experience and proximity provide unique authority and storytelling depth. 💬 Notable Quotes On purpose and professionalism • “Never get it twisted… it’s business… but a friendly business.” \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] • “Very few people are really your friends.” \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] On media influence and cultural validation • “Before social media, there was Jet.” \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] • “Some people didn’t feel like they made it until they were in Jet magazine.” \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] On Sylvia Moy and untold history • “That woman made history as a producer but was denied the credit.” \[Margena Ch...(Podcast) | Txt\] • “How are you…

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Welcome to my show.
[0:01] Speaker 2: I'm Rashon McDonald, a host of Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
[0:04] Speaker 2: where we encourage people to stop reading other people's success
[0:07] Speaker 2: stories and start planning your own. Now, you don't want
[0:10] Speaker 2: to miss an episode, so please take a moment right
[0:12] Speaker 2: now to follow or subscribe to Money Making Conversations Masterclass.
[0:16] Speaker 1: It's free.
[0:17] Speaker 2: You can follow me on iHeartRadio, app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
[0:21] Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your podcast. New Money Making
[0:24] Speaker 2: Conversations Masterclass episodes drop daily. I want to keep you
[0:28] Speaker 2: on alert because my guests provide tips on how you
[0:30] Speaker 2: can uplift your community, improve your financial planning, motivation, or
[0:34] Speaker 2: advice on how to be a successful entrepreneur. Now, let's
[0:38] Speaker 2: get this podcast started. My guess is a veteran journalist, educator,
[0:42] Speaker 2: and author of the book It's No Wonder, The Life
[0:45] Speaker 2: and Times of Motowns legendary songwriter Sylvia Moore. Her research
[0:50] Speaker 2: interests focus on the intersections of the role of the
[0:54] Speaker 2: media and education, Black popular culture, biographical and historic. Please
[1:01] Speaker 2: welcome to the Money Making Conversations. You know she covers legends,
[1:04] Speaker 2: but she is a legend. Doctor Margina Christian, How you
[1:07] Speaker 2: doing Margina.
[1:09] Speaker 3: Hello, How are you? Thanks for having me?
[1:11] Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna tell you something.
[1:12] Speaker 2: When this came across my desk, Doctor Christian, I saw Ebony,
[1:17] Speaker 2: I saw Chet, I just I saw, I saw Motown.
[1:24] Speaker 2: I said, I got an interview this because this is
[1:26] Speaker 2: my rain, this is this is where I come from.
[1:29] Speaker 2: How did you get involved with these historical brands that
[1:33] Speaker 2: somehow disappeared today?
[1:36] Speaker 3: Oh wow?
[1:38] Speaker 4: Well, my in regards to Johnson Publishing Companies once housed
[1:45] Speaker 4: Ebony and Jet Magazine founded by John Ah Johnson, or
[1:49] Speaker 4: as I said in my book that I wrote a
[1:52] Speaker 4: twenty eighteen Empire the house to Johnny's Johnson built. I
[1:55] Speaker 4: started working for that company's specifically Jet Magazine, which was
[2:01] Speaker 4: the weekly publication, in nineteen ninety five, and then as
[2:07] Speaker 4: time progressed and we had re orgs and changing up
[2:13] Speaker 4: powers and positions, in two thousand and nine, I was
[2:16] Speaker 4: moved to Ebony Magazine. However, during my tenure at the company,
[2:22] Speaker 4: when Ebony and Jet was under Johnson Publishing, I worked
[2:26] Speaker 4: at the company from ninety five into twenty fourteen, and
[2:30] Speaker 4: I not only worked with Ebony and Jet, but also,
[2:33] Speaker 4: if you remember Ebny Man, I also wrote the history
[2:37] Speaker 4: and covered all the stories for the Ebony Fashion Affairs Show.
[2:40] Speaker 3: So I worked also with Eunice W.
[2:43] Speaker 4: Johnson, and so my history as a writer started back
[2:48] Speaker 4: in Saint Louis, but I had my hand on the pulse.
[2:51] Speaker 4: I was doing all of the entertainment, and I felt
[2:54] Speaker 4: like I reached the pinnacle, and so I felt like,
[2:57] Speaker 4: what better place than to be next to St. Louis
[3:01] Speaker 4: in Chicago. Johnson Publishing Company John H. Johnson, Ebanie and Jet.
[3:06] Speaker 4: These were brands I grew up on, and so I
[3:10] Speaker 4: was very fortunate that I had a portfolio, as we
[3:14] Speaker 4: called them back then, clips. I had a book with
[3:17] Speaker 4: all my clips and all the interviews and people I did.
[3:20] Speaker 4: And I remember John H. Johnson was impressed with my
[3:23] Speaker 4: interview with Bobby Brow. So I owe it all to
[3:27] Speaker 4: Bobby Brah because I remember when he was the king
[3:30] Speaker 4: of stage and I'm being very honest, just like she
[3:33] Speaker 4: was being very honest because those of us who know
[3:37] Speaker 4: no that that's where it was. And so he saw
[3:40] Speaker 4: that story and was impressed. But of course he saw
[3:43] Speaker 4: my other stories as well, and he said, I think
[3:46] Speaker 4: Jet Magazine will be the better fit for you because
[3:48] Speaker 4: you like to interview the stars and the celebrities, and
[3:52] Speaker 4: he said, Ebony, you gotta understand this about rank. He said,
[3:56] Speaker 4: those who've been at the magazine a little bit longer
[3:59] Speaker 4: will be the wants to interview all the big names.
[4:02] Speaker 4: He said, But with Jet, I think you'll be able
[4:04] Speaker 4: to do more and have more flexibility.
[4:07] Speaker 3: So that's why I'm gonna move you.
[4:09] Speaker 4: Because when I applied, I actually wanted to write for
[4:13] Speaker 4: Ebedy and he put me with Jet. And it was
[4:16] Speaker 4: interesting because my interview was with Linda Johnson Rice.
[4:21] Speaker 3: But mister Johnson came in and took over the.
[4:24] Speaker 2: Interview so well as a man who understands, and he
[4:28] Speaker 2: took it over and placed you where he felt you better, sir.
[4:32] Speaker 1: Plus he understood the politics.
[4:34] Speaker 4: He understood the politics, and I appreciated his honesty with
[4:37] Speaker 4: that because a lot of times people would have just
[4:41] Speaker 4: put me there and I wouldn't have ever did what
[4:43] Speaker 4: I wanted.
[4:43] Speaker 3: But he saw my passion and he also saw my gift.
[4:47] Speaker 4: Look, she's an interviewing the big names. I mean back then,
[4:50] Speaker 4: what we see you know what Usher is? That was
[4:55] Speaker 4: Bobby Brown? And Usher said I wanted to be Bobby
[4:58] Speaker 4: Brown at one point. That was the ultimate entertainer, and
[5:01] Speaker 4: so if you could get to him and do an interview,
[5:04] Speaker 4: that was a big deal. You know, just hit after
[5:11] Speaker 4: hit after hit. I want to Grammy. There's so many
[5:14] Speaker 4: wonderful things. So to have full circle moments with him,
[5:18] Speaker 4: Uh and and uh the industry period has just been
[5:22] Speaker 4: a blessing.
[5:23] Speaker 2: Let's let's talk about you and you know your female
[5:26] Speaker 2: you know, and we know in a world where chauvelin'sic tendencies,
[5:31] Speaker 2: well they're talking about them today. They were worse back then.
[5:34] Speaker 2: There were no cameras, restricted barrier. I'm not saying anything
[5:37] Speaker 2: bad happened to you. I'm just saying, but there are issues.
[5:40] Speaker 2: You're an attractive woman. How did you deal with those
[5:43] Speaker 2: issues or how did you advise people in your business
[5:47] Speaker 2: how to deal with those issues and trying to rise
[5:50] Speaker 2: up the rank or getting respected for your work first
[5:53] Speaker 2: and your looks being ignored.
[5:56] Speaker 4: Oh wow, that's a wonderful question. I don't know if
[6:00] Speaker 4: you ever had the good fortune of visiting Johnson Publishing
[6:04] Speaker 4: Company at eight twenty South Michigan doing this heyday, but
[6:07] Speaker 4: there was It was known and had a reputation for
[6:11] Speaker 4: having some of the most beautiful women who worked at
[6:14] Speaker 4: that company, and.
[6:18] Speaker 3: I was one of many beautiful.
[6:20] Speaker 4: Women, you know, and and and and and so here's
[6:25] Speaker 4: the thing. I was a writer, and there were entertainers
[6:30] Speaker 4: who came through.
[6:31] Speaker 3: Uh.
[6:32] Speaker 4: There weren't a lot of men at the company. The
[6:34] Speaker 4: women outnumbered the men at Johnson, So I personally didn't
[6:38] Speaker 4: have to deal with any type of harassment.
[6:41] Speaker 3: Uh.
[6:42] Speaker 4: But when when people would come by, you know, they
[6:44] Speaker 4: would be flattered or make complimists or or you know,
[6:48] Speaker 4: might want to take you out. I never got caught
[6:50] Speaker 4: up in it because I was on this side where
[6:53] Speaker 4: I saw the reality of what this illusion really was.
[6:57] Speaker 4: I saw that even though these Queen Latifa once said
[7:01] Speaker 4: that you get the fame before the fortune, so I
[7:04] Speaker 4: knew many of those people were just like they were
[7:07] Speaker 4: regular people.
[7:09] Speaker 3: And there were people.
[7:10] Speaker 4: That I got taken by or was really excited to see.
[7:14] Speaker 4: I remember when Maxwell was just coming out and we
[7:18] Speaker 4: were in a meeting, an editorial meeting, and they were like,
[7:21] Speaker 4: you know, and I knew he was there, so I
[7:24] Speaker 4: was like, I have to be excused to run to
[7:26] Speaker 4: the ladies room. I went right over there to say hello,
[7:29] Speaker 4: and as I was coming by, he just looked and
[7:31] Speaker 4: said beautiful and I was just like wow, because it's
[7:36] Speaker 4: like he was smooth.
[7:37] Speaker 3: I mean, he was buttery smooth. But back to your
[7:41] Speaker 3: initial question, I understood it was work. It was a job,
[7:44] Speaker 3: and I.
[7:47] Speaker 4: Learned from one of my mentors, Clarence Waldron. He always
[7:50] Speaker 4: told me, h, never get it twisted.
[7:53] Speaker 3: He said.
[7:54] Speaker 4: It's a business, he said, and it's a he said.
[7:58] Speaker 4: It's work, he said, But it's friendly business, he said.
[8:02] Speaker 4: But never mixed the two because he said, very few
[8:05] Speaker 4: people are really your friends. And he said, so understand that.
[8:09] Speaker 4: And I never forgot it, and it helped.
[8:11] Speaker 3: Me to maneuver through.
[8:14] Speaker 4: But some people, or so I've heard, got caught up
[8:17] Speaker 4: in whatever whatever.
[8:18] Speaker 3: But those are stories for them to share and to tell.
[8:21] Speaker 4: But it's all about how you handle what it is
[8:26] Speaker 4: in the environment that you've been in and how you
[8:28] Speaker 4: make it work to your advantage. No one can ever
[8:31] Speaker 4: tell you anything about me where they'll say, oh I
[8:34] Speaker 4: heard this or that.
[8:36] Speaker 3: No all respect and people know me, so you know
[8:40] Speaker 3: the god sweet people.
[8:41] Speaker 2: Now, you know, cause I got to bring that up
[8:43] Speaker 2: because of the fact that I know Clarence Walter. You know,
[8:47] Speaker 2: like when I was managing Steve Harvey. You know, that's
[8:49] Speaker 2: how you got on the cover if you didn't. And
[8:52] Speaker 2: I remember I was on the phone with him several
[8:54] Speaker 2: times talking about could Steve get this because it was
[8:58] Speaker 2: strategic to get Steve Harvey on the cover that Jet
[9:02] Speaker 2: magazine that laid on the table or the actual Ebony magazine.
[9:06] Speaker 1: If you got an Ebon magazine, that.
[9:08] Speaker 2: Was the super wow, you know, but you getting no
[9:11] Speaker 2: Jet magazine because it was weekly, that was important, especially when.
[9:15] Speaker 1: You're the fall season.
[9:17] Speaker 2: They featured the various television shows that featured black talent,
[9:21] Speaker 2: and Steve Harvey was one of the bigger ones. Plus
[9:24] Speaker 2: he had showtime at the Apollo as well, And so
[9:27] Speaker 2: I would have to say that Essence and Eboney played
[9:30] Speaker 2: a major role, especially building Steve Harvey's brand in the
[9:33] Speaker 2: black community because Ebony and Jet edis heyday was the
[9:39] Speaker 2: black community?
[9:40] Speaker 1: Correct?
[9:41] Speaker 3: Oh yes, I.
[9:42] Speaker 4: Mean before social media there was Jet and so we
[9:47] Speaker 4: to get in Ebony, to get in Jet. Some people
[9:51] Speaker 4: said they didn't feel like they made it until they
[9:53] Speaker 4: were in Jet magazine, you know. And we had people
[9:57] Speaker 4: calling who are television shows tops? Who were upset why
[10:01] Speaker 4: isn't my show listed? Well, they only did the major
[10:04] Speaker 4: networks like the ABC, CBS, NBC they didn't.
[10:09] Speaker 3: And we know back then they used to have.
[10:10] Speaker 4: The WB and all those networks where they would put
[10:14] Speaker 4: up in where that's where most of the black.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Shows participants airing black sitcoms exactly.
[10:23] Speaker 4: So most some of those people were very fortunate to
[10:26] Speaker 4: get on the cover, but some of them still wonder, well,
[10:29] Speaker 4: why are we not listed in the back? So I'd
[10:32] Speaker 4: have to or one of my colleagues, we'd have to
[10:34] Speaker 4: explain that these are the shows they put on on
[10:38] Speaker 4: it and for whatever reason, it wasn't shows like WB UBN,
[10:43] Speaker 4: but those people made the cover.
[10:45] Speaker 3: The Steve Harvey show made the cover.
[10:47] Speaker 2: Uh.
[10:48] Speaker 4: And so I also remember, uh, the negotiation for Steve
[10:52] Speaker 4: getting on covers because Clarence Cubicle was right in front
[10:56] Speaker 4: of mine and I'm looking at that cover right now
[10:58] Speaker 4: where Steve had on all black and it was the
[11:01] Speaker 4: first time he showed his ball head and it was
[11:04] Speaker 4: showing how he was fifth and fabulous.
[11:07] Speaker 3: It was a milestone birthday.
[11:11] Speaker 4: And yeah, I remember that negotiation because he was like, Okay,
[11:15] Speaker 4: he's moving from the show, but now he's starting to
[11:18] Speaker 4: do his own thing and he even came by the building.
[11:21] Speaker 3: I remember that as well.
[11:23] Speaker 1: Please don't go anywhere.
[11:25] Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more money Making Conversations Masterclass. Now,
[11:28] Speaker 2: I need for you to do me a favor right
[11:31] Speaker 2: now to follow or subscribe to Money Making Conversation. It's
[11:35] Speaker 2: free and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
[11:39] Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please do
[11:43] Speaker 2: me that favor, follow or subscribe money Making Conversations. Welcome
[11:50] Speaker 2: back to Money Making Conversation master Class with me Rashaun McDonald. Yeah,
[11:55] Speaker 2: those times are important because, like I said, when I
[11:58] Speaker 2: look back, you know, cannot forget you know.
[12:01] Speaker 1: The Jet Beauty of the Week, Jet Beauty of.
[12:03] Speaker 3: The forget the Jet Beauties of the week.
[12:05] Speaker 2: That was That was the mainstake. But when I look
[12:08] Speaker 2: at your brand, I tell you a story. You have
[12:09] Speaker 2: a new book out, you know, I just mentioned it.
[12:11] Speaker 2: You know, The Life and Times. Excuse me, it's no
[12:14] Speaker 2: wonder The Life and Times of Motowns legendary songwriter Sylvia Moore.
[12:19] Speaker 2: Before we get into it, why did you feel that
[12:22] Speaker 2: story was so important for you to write.
[12:25] Speaker 4: I felt that story was important for me to write
[12:28] Speaker 4: because it was during the pandemic, and like everybody, my
[12:33] Speaker 4: lifeline was social media. And I saw something. Two posts
[12:37] Speaker 4: that came across about the same subject, the beautiful picture
[12:41] Speaker 4: of Sylvia Moy in the studio with the young Stevie
[12:45] Speaker 4: Wonder sitting at the piano stood holding the harmonica, and
[12:49] Speaker 4: three members of the Funk Brothers behind her and everybody.
[12:54] Speaker 4: The posts generated a lot of likes, and it had
[12:59] Speaker 4: a lot of comments, and most of the comments were
[13:03] Speaker 4: pretty similar, Oh she's so beautiful, but why haven't we
[13:07] Speaker 4: ever heard of her before? And then there was the
[13:10] Speaker 4: claim that she helped Stevie Wonder prevented him from being
[13:15] Speaker 4: let go from Motown, and then that she made history
[13:19] Speaker 4: as his first female producer. I'd never heard that before.
[13:24] Speaker 4: And I came from Ebony and Jet magazine. So you
[13:28] Speaker 4: go to the archives of where it should have been,
[13:31] Speaker 4: and I said, oh, well, if anybody would have a
[13:34] Speaker 4: story and a background on Sylvia Moy, it's the archives
[13:39] Speaker 4: of Ebony and Jet.
[13:40] Speaker 3: So I went to my backyard.
[13:42] Speaker 4: And when I went into the backyard, I didn't see
[13:45] Speaker 4: anything mentioned about this woman. So I'm curious as to
[13:50] Speaker 4: why hasn't the world ever heard that Stevie Wonder was
[13:54] Speaker 4: supposedly on the chopping block and if she was the
[13:57] Speaker 4: first female producer. Have I only heard about Valerie Simpson.
[14:02] Speaker 4: I never heard about Sylvia Mooy and how she did
[14:06] Speaker 4: all of this stuff. And so that's what made me curious,
[14:10] Speaker 4: because people were curious about her, and so was I,
[14:14] Speaker 4: because I said, how are you getting the credit for something?
[14:17] Speaker 3: And there is I don't see a footprint.
[14:21] Speaker 4: I don't see anything that you've done to show me
[14:24] Speaker 4: that this is what you did.
[14:25] Speaker 3: So that made me set out.
[14:28] Speaker 4: But before I could begin, I had to make sure
[14:30] Speaker 4: the most critical part of this story was in place.
[14:33] Speaker 4: Was Stevie supposedly on the chopping block or was he not?
[14:38] Speaker 4: So when I began my research, I interviewed those who
[14:42] Speaker 4: work at Motown. We're talking Mickey Stevens. Smokey Robinson was
[14:46] Speaker 4: the first person I interviewed. Right after him was Mickey Stevenson.
[14:51] Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, it was probably within fifteen
[14:53] Speaker 4: twenty minutes on the same day the interview and then
[14:57] Speaker 4: the Martha Reeves and then the Eddie High And so
[15:02] Speaker 4: I thought to myself, there were people who said, yes,
[15:05] Speaker 4: he was going to get let go, and there were
[15:08] Speaker 4: people who said, no, what are you talking about. I
[15:11] Speaker 4: never heard this before, So I had to find the source.
[15:15] Speaker 4: So I reached and was trying to get to Stevie. Stevie,
[15:19] Speaker 4: if you know him, you know him. But if you
[15:21] Speaker 4: try to get to him through his people, I'd have
[15:24] Speaker 4: an easier time trying to get to Barack Obama. That
[15:26] Speaker 4: Stevie wasn't okay, and you know what I'm talking about.
[15:30] Speaker 4: So at any rate, I thought, I gotta see if
[15:33] Speaker 4: there's truth to this.
[15:35] Speaker 3: And so when.
[15:36] Speaker 4: I realized and I found enough research where Stevie actually
[15:41] Speaker 4: talked about that time, and there was truth indeed that
[15:46] Speaker 4: he was getting older, his voice was changing, and most importantly,
[15:51] Speaker 4: Barry Gordy did not know what to do with him. See,
[15:54] Speaker 4: when Stevie Wonder came to Motown when he was eleven
[15:57] Speaker 4: years old, he played the harmonica and that Blueberry Gordy
[16:02] Speaker 4: away his harmonica playing blew me away, but his singing
[16:06] Speaker 4: voice did not. So if I wasn't crazy about your
[16:09] Speaker 4: voice before, now that your voice is changing, what we
[16:12] Speaker 4: ended for a world of trouble. Okay, So he was.
[16:16] Speaker 4: Stevie was considered like a novelty act. And so that
[16:20] Speaker 4: first song that made him was Fingertips Part two, which
[16:24] Speaker 4: was recorded in film in Chicago at Chicago's Regal Theater.
[16:29] Speaker 4: He played the harmonica and just said everybody say yay.
[16:32] Speaker 3: It was like a that's it, but that's not singing it.
[16:37] Speaker 4: So but that broke him and then after that it
[16:41] Speaker 4: was a three year low.
[16:43] Speaker 3: It was like crickets. Nothing else could hit on him.
[16:46] Speaker 4: So it's like, look, the entertainment industry is not always
[16:52] Speaker 4: kind to chill.
[16:54] Speaker 3: I come from the world of media.
[16:57] Speaker 4: I watched a lot of celebrities go from chill to
[17:00] Speaker 4: men to kids and so on and so forth. And
[17:05] Speaker 4: I looked and thought to myself, this woman stepped out
[17:09] Speaker 4: on faith and did something when they were considering letting
[17:13] Speaker 4: him go.
[17:14] Speaker 3: She said to Mickey.
[17:15] Speaker 4: Stevenson because in her own words and in the interview
[17:20] Speaker 4: that I got of her, Mickey Stevenson was the one
[17:25] Speaker 4: who said, hey, do I have any volunteers who want
[17:29] Speaker 4: to work with Stevie wondered to see if they could
[17:32] Speaker 4: write a song for you.
[17:33] Speaker 3: The other men at the time, they all were working.
[17:38] Speaker 4: With hit makers, so they weren't trying to break up
[17:41] Speaker 4: their momentum.
[17:42] Speaker 3: So they all passed.
[17:44] Speaker 4: And remember the opportunity word is volunteer. So I'm working
[17:49] Speaker 4: on hits. We love Stevie, but I don't have time
[17:52] Speaker 4: to volunteer.
[17:53] Speaker 3: For no free stuff.
[17:54] Speaker 4: So hey, if we don't have anyone, we might have
[17:58] Speaker 4: to let him go. That's what she said, Mickey Stevenson. See, okay,
[18:03] Speaker 4: now here's the thing. She came up to Mickey and said,
[18:08] Speaker 4: I don't think it's over for Stevie. And she said
[18:12] Speaker 4: she begged, can I work with him? And if I
[18:16] Speaker 4: get a hit on him and can I also produce it?
[18:22] Speaker 4: Will he be able to stay? She was allowed to
[18:27] Speaker 4: work with Stevie and the hint was uptight. The song
[18:31] Speaker 4: became a hit, Stevie wanted to stay. She did not
[18:35] Speaker 4: get the producer credit for it, but that is how
[18:38] Speaker 4: she made history as a producer out of her.
[18:42] Speaker 2: Own Cosby and Mickey Stevens exactly.
[18:47] Speaker 4: So she did not get her name on it, even
[18:52] Speaker 4: though that was part of the agree. So that was
[18:54] Speaker 4: the song where she made history as a producer. But
[18:58] Speaker 4: her name to this day it is not listed on
[19:02] Speaker 4: any Motown song during her duration there as a producer.
[19:08] Speaker 4: So how did she make history as a producer? I
[19:12] Speaker 4: have to research. I'm a trained investigative journalist. My book
[19:16] Speaker 4: it is no wonder, It's part of investigative journalism as
[19:20] Speaker 4: well as academic scholarly research. So I have to dig
[19:26] Speaker 4: deep to find out how is she getting credit for
[19:30] Speaker 4: something her name isn't on. I didn't see her name
[19:33] Speaker 4: on anything, and so that's when she's always credited as
[19:40] Speaker 4: a writer. But even some songs she didn't even get
[19:43] Speaker 4: credit for as a writer.
[19:44] Speaker 3: Okay.
[19:45] Speaker 4: So like this Old Heart of Mine, Eddie Holland said
[19:49] Speaker 4: he gave her credit for the song, but on some
[19:51] Speaker 4: of those songs you don't even see her name on.
[19:54] Speaker 4: So she got credit for some of her songs with songwriting,
[19:59] Speaker 4: but no credit for the producing. But in her words,
[20:03] Speaker 4: she said she got paid for two songs as a producer.
[20:07] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, as an academic, as a scholar, I was
[20:13] Speaker 3: going through.
[20:13] Speaker 4: A book called African American Issues and higher ed African
[20:18] Speaker 4: American Issue Issues in African American Music, and it dealt
[20:22] Speaker 4: with power, gender, race, and representation. And in this book
[20:28] Speaker 4: there was a scholar who interviewed her and it was
[20:32] Speaker 4: a footnote and in the footnote he said she claimed
[20:36] Speaker 4: to have produced uptight and I was made to love her.
[20:42] Speaker 4: And that's when I found that scholar and I interviewed
[20:48] Speaker 4: him and I asked if he had the recording. He
[20:52] Speaker 4: had her interview and in her own words, I heard
[20:56] Speaker 4: her share and tell her story, and that woman made
[21:00] Speaker 4: history as a producer, but was denied the credit as
[21:03] Speaker 4: a producer. Now, just recently I wrote an article for UH,
[21:08] Speaker 4: the Conversation right and to write for.
[21:12] Speaker 1: Let me before you give a start, let me just
[21:14] Speaker 1: hold on. I just want to give people how great
[21:16] Speaker 1: she was.
[21:17] Speaker 2: Okay, Stevie Wonder's uptight dioloxis brother, this whole heart of mine,
[21:23] Speaker 2: Marvin Gate, it takes two, babe, man, Come on now,
[21:27] Speaker 2: Steve Wonder, I was made to love her, you know,
[21:30] Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder.
[21:31] Speaker 1: I'm wondering Martha, Martha.
[21:33] Speaker 2: And the Van Dale's love Bug, leave my Heart Alone,
[21:37] Speaker 2: Martha and the Van Dales.
[21:38] Speaker 1: Honey Child, Seby Doobe Do do Dave.
[21:42] Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder, my sher Ree, Stevie Wonder, Marth and Van
[21:47] Speaker 2: Dale's Honey Love Stevie Wonder never.
[21:50] Speaker 1: Had a dream come true?
[21:52] Speaker 2: Marth and Vandale's Forget Me Not, Michael Jackson with a
[21:56] Speaker 2: child's heart.
[21:57] Speaker 1: This is who we're talking about. Sylvia or Moore.
[22:00] Speaker 2: If you are in my age, you know all these
[22:03] Speaker 2: songs and and.
[22:05] Speaker 4: You forgot the all time fab My baby loves Me
[22:09] Speaker 4: Martha and Yes, and with the Child's Heart was actually
[22:14] Speaker 4: first performed by Stevie Wonder and then his cousin Michael Jackson.
[22:19] Speaker 3: Did it a little while later. Seeing Motown.
[22:22] Speaker 4: They believed in getting their money's worth out of those
[22:25] Speaker 4: artists as well as those songwriters and.
[22:27] Speaker 3: The the music itself.
[22:30] Speaker 2: But that's what they did with Gladys Knight and uh
[22:33] Speaker 2: I heard you through the Gray Fryar.
[22:35] Speaker 1: Remember Gladys Knight did it. They came right around and
[22:37] Speaker 1: gave it to Marvin Gay.
[22:39] Speaker 4: Exactly say look, if you can't get a hit on it,
[22:41] Speaker 4: we're gonna move on to the next, into the next,
[22:44] Speaker 4: into the next. So hey, that's called being quite resourceful.
[22:48] Speaker 4: And it worked.
[22:49] Speaker 3: It worked.
[22:50] Speaker 1: Oh wow, you know you you know your history.
[22:54] Speaker 2: I'm gonna just tell you that, doctor Bachino, and that's
[22:56] Speaker 2: a blessing your your oral history, you know. So so
[23:01] Speaker 2: so where the museum gonna be at for you?
[23:03] Speaker 1: Now? We're gonna put that make a digital museum for us.
[23:07] Speaker 4: You know, vir people ask me all the time you
[23:14] Speaker 4: need to you know, they see all of these quote
[23:16] Speaker 4: unquote young influencers talking about stuff and sharing information. And
[23:20] Speaker 4: they say they're talking about stuff that you live. They're
[23:23] Speaker 4: they're telling about stuff that you helped to make. I
[23:27] Speaker 4: didn't just uh read history alongside John N. H.
[23:31] Speaker 3: Johnson.
[23:32] Speaker 4: We helped him to write it and to make it.
[23:34] Speaker 4: But here's the thing about history. You're not thinking, Wow,
[23:38] Speaker 4: I'm in the moment and I make a history and
[23:40] Speaker 4: this is gonna be. You're just doing it because you're
[23:44] Speaker 4: called to do it. You don't know what tomorrow is
[23:47] Speaker 4: gonna hold. But I'm so fortunate that I left a
[23:52] Speaker 4: footprint in the sand, and I know my stories, and
[23:56] Speaker 4: I look at all of the success that many people
[23:58] Speaker 4: are massing, and I say, I remember interviewing that person.
[24:02] Speaker 4: I remember when I see Antoine Fuquah, and I remember
[24:06] Speaker 4: when at Johnson published and we used to have a private.
[24:11] Speaker 3: Room where you could scream movies.
[24:13] Speaker 4: He came with his movie Training Day, and he brought
[24:16] Speaker 4: his wife, Leelo Lashan, and we saw a rough cut
[24:20] Speaker 4: of Training Day, and he said, I'm not certain how
[24:22] Speaker 4: the ending is gonna be, but this is what I have,
[24:26] Speaker 4: and he talked about what the alternate might have been.
[24:29] Speaker 4: I look at Antoine Fuquah today and he just did Michael,
[24:33] Speaker 4: But I also look at Antoine Fuquah's history. Harvey Fuquah
[24:39] Speaker 4: was his uncle, Harvey Fuquah. You might remember the moon glows,
[24:43] Speaker 4: So do you see that full circle moment? And how
[24:48] Speaker 4: so there are these ten bits and little things that
[24:50] Speaker 4: I know that just for me comes second nature. And
[24:55] Speaker 4: so people often say, when are you gonna do something?
[24:58] Speaker 4: We'll see when spirit moves me, we'll see. It takes
[25:02] Speaker 4: a lot of work, but we'll see.
[25:05] Speaker 1: Wow.
[25:06] Speaker 2: She's the author of the book It's No Wonder, The
[25:08] Speaker 2: Life and Times of Motown's legendary songwriter sevill Or Moore.
[25:12] Speaker 1: What can we get this book?
[25:14] Speaker 4: You could get the book anywhere and everywhere the books
[25:17] Speaker 4: are sold.
[25:18] Speaker 1: My friend, you know you're still in Chicago, right.
[25:22] Speaker 3: I'm still in Chicago.
[25:24] Speaker 2: Chicago is one of my best eating cities. I I
[25:28] Speaker 2: gotta go up there and give me some good food
[25:30] Speaker 2: in Chicago. Well, you're gonna see me, my friend. You're
[25:33] Speaker 2: a brilliant person, an incredible legendary mind, and we're gonna
[25:38] Speaker 2: sit down and get this virtual museum of you off
[25:42] Speaker 2: the ground. Yeah, because I don't take no, especially when
[25:45] Speaker 2: I talk to great people. Because you know, one of
[25:48] Speaker 2: my great moments in life is that I want you
[25:50] Speaker 2: to tell your story, not let somebody come back and
[25:54] Speaker 2: mess it up.
[25:55] Speaker 4: Okay, oh oh yeah, because people will write you out
[25:58] Speaker 4: and wipe you out of your on history if letter.
[26:01] Speaker 4: But here's the wonderful thing about history. It may be hidden,
[26:06] Speaker 4: but it's never erased.
[26:07] Speaker 1: Well, guess what we're gonna.
[26:09] Speaker 2: We're gonna they say, stopgap that we just gonna put
[26:13] Speaker 2: it in place, lock it down, put a password on there,
[26:16] Speaker 2: and they can only be viewed by people who are
[26:18] Speaker 2: allowed to be viewed.
[26:19] Speaker 1: But you you, I.
[26:21] Speaker 2: Say all these things to say this outstanding storyteller, that's you. Okay, uh,
[26:27] Speaker 2: you've been You've been part of my life personally. And
[26:30] Speaker 2: to go grab miss Sylvia Moy and bring back songs
[26:33] Speaker 2: and realize in the early stage we saw about songs
[26:36] Speaker 2: before the songs and the key of life.
[26:39] Speaker 3: It wouldn't we wouldn't have gotten to that. They got
[26:42] Speaker 3: rid of him, and they wouldn't.
[26:44] Speaker 4: Have got that.
[26:45] Speaker 1: No, no, no, imagine the world without Sylvia More.
[26:49] Speaker 3: All right, you are speaking my life message.
[26:52] Speaker 1: The world with Sylvia More. Let's go be real. I
[26:55] Speaker 1: read a lot them songs. Now there would be no
[26:57] Speaker 1: more than the vad Dall.
[26:59] Speaker 4: All right, when I marked in the Vandela, wait a minute,
[27:03] Speaker 4: they were doing stuff.
[27:09] Speaker 1: I read these songs.
[27:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you gotta have some extra love here. These
[27:14] Speaker 2: songs they know, I said, brother, that's my boys right there,
[27:18] Speaker 2: Brother Marvin k it takes two. These songs are my
[27:22] Speaker 2: I was made to love that. I mean, that's a classic.
[27:24] Speaker 2: I'm wondering that's a classic by stevene One love Bug
[27:27] Speaker 2: my Heart. That's mart than the bad. Come on now, honey,
[27:31] Speaker 2: come on now, come on. That's one my shell real more.
[27:37] Speaker 2: That is like a legendary song. Ste one, Martha the
[27:41] Speaker 2: Marthy again, honey love Okay, never had a dream? Come
[27:44] Speaker 2: Steve one, and then come Martha again. Forget me now
[27:47] Speaker 2: and then come on now.
[27:49] Speaker 4: One of my favorites by Sylvia Moore and this is
[27:52] Speaker 4: love Come on last Night and the Pips did it all.
[27:56] Speaker 4: That song that speaks to the astory on the skill.
[28:02] Speaker 4: That's just brilliance.
[28:03] Speaker 3: This woman was made.
[28:04] Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on my show, Money Making Conversations Masterclass.
[28:08] Speaker 2: But no, this is not the last time you're speaking
[28:10] Speaker 2: to Rashad McDonald.
[28:11] Speaker 1: Okay, right, all right.
[28:14] Speaker 3: All right, thank you, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[28:17] Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode.
[28:19] Speaker 2: Now I need for you to do me a favor
[28:22] Speaker 2: right now to follow or subscribe to Money Making Conversations.
[28:25] Speaker 2: It's free and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
[28:30] Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please do
[28:34] Speaker 2: me that favor, follow or subscribe Money Making Conversations.
[28:39] Speaker 1: Keep winning

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