# Overcoming the Odds: She inspires small business owners with lessons on perseverance, succession planning, and self-identity.

An episode of [Money Making Conversations Master Class](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1264705641), 29 Jan 2026, 38 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/b1db7263-d1a3-4d00-8976-af62012aab44/cd4fdacb-c89c-4def-b7fc-b3a8002530ef/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=35a10561-3e1b-4d05-a529-af62012aab6a

Listen and subscribe to Money Making Conversations on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, www.moneymakingconversations.com/subscribe/ or wherever you listen to podcasts. New Money Making Conversations episodes drop daily. I want to alert you, so you don’t miss out on expert analysis and insider perspectives from my guests who provide tips that can help you uplift the community, improve your financial planning, motivation, or advice on how to be a successful entrepreneur. Keep winning! Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Cheryl McKissack Daniel. Topic: Legacy, resilience, and entrepreneurship of the McKissack family, as detailed in the book The Black Family Who Built America. Cheryl shares the powerful story of her family's 230-year legacy in architecture and construction, making McKissack & McKissack the oldest minority woman-owned professional design and construction firm in the U.S. The conversation explores themes of generational resilience, Black excellence, business strategy, and personal growth. 🎯 Purpose of the Interview • Highlight the McKissack family’s historical and cultural impact on American infrastructure and Black entrepreneurship. • Promote the book The Black Family Who Built America as a record of legacy and inspiration. • Inspire small business owners and entrepreneurs with lessons on perseverance, succession planning, and self-identity. • Address the importance of preserving Black history in the face of cultural erasure. 🔑 Key Takeaways 🏗️ Legacy & Impact • McKissack & McKissack has contributed to major U.S. infrastructure projects like: • Barclays Center • JFK Terminal One • LaGuardia Airport • Penn Station • Lincoln Financial Field “We are the fifth generation. Right. And we're Black in America.” 📚 Historical Significance • The family legacy began with Moses McKissack, who was enslaved and later became a builder. • Cheryl’s ancestors were the first licensed Black architects in America (licenses 117 and 118 in Tennessee). “They became the first Black licensed architects in America… and helped get licensed in 22 other states.” 💼 Business Wisdom • Cheryl emphasizes the importance of: • Succession planning • Understanding both technical and political buyers • Building relationships before you need them “You better have that relationship before you need it.” 🧠 The 5 Ps of Family Resilience • Perseverance • Persistence • Preparedness • Purpose • Prayer “Sometimes you do get up in the morning and you say it's not for me… You have to come back and meditate on the fact that you're a winner.” 🧘‍♀️ Personal Growth & Mental Health • Cheryl discusses overcoming stress, rediscovering herself after a difficult marriage, and the importance of meditation. “Being yourself is what we're talking about… I recognize that I am currently feeling stressed out. So what do I need to do?” 👩‍👧‍👧 Women in Leadership • Cheryl’s mother took over the business after her father’s stroke, despite societal barriers. “She only knew the telephone number to the office at that time… but she knew deep inside that she wanted to hold on for the fifth generation.” 🎥 Representation & Media • The book and Cheryl’s story aim to counteract negative portrayals of Black people in media and history. “You may not have known about Black excellence. You just ignored it. But we exist.” 💬 Memorable Quotes • “Black people built America. Now, that's the point we're making here.” • “You have to say the opposite to yourself. And you have to put one foot in front of the other.” • “This book is a receipt to say we are around. We have a foundation. We're not going anywhere.” #SHMS #STRAW #BEST Money Making Conversations Master Class with Rushion McDonald is America's premier entrepreneurship, business leadership, financial literacy, and wealth-building podcast featuring successful entrepreneurs, executives, founders, celebrities, and industry…

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
[0:03] Speaker 1: and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
[0:08] Speaker 1: have been left all across the United States, spanning from
[0:11] Speaker 1: reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Barclays Center,
[0:17] Speaker 1: the Billy Jean King National Tennis Center, the new terminal
[0:20] Speaker 1: one at JFK International Airport in Philadelphia's Lincoln Financial Field.
[0:26] Speaker 2: That's just to name a few. We still be talking,
[0:28] Speaker 2: but I want to interview her, revealed in.
[0:31] Speaker 1: Cheryl mckisse's daniels new book, The Black Family Who Built America.
[0:36] Speaker 1: Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Cheryl McKissick Daniels.
[0:41] Speaker 2: How you doing.
[0:42] Speaker 3: I'm great, Rashaan, so nice to be here with you.
[0:44] Speaker 2: First of all, it was a lot.
[0:46] Speaker 3: That was a lot.
[0:46] Speaker 2: There was a lot when I sit here.
[0:49] Speaker 1: First of all, I don't want to undermine the greatness
[0:53] Speaker 1: of your family, but also it's the buck stops with you.
[0:59] Speaker 2: How do you make that level of expectation and also
[1:03] Speaker 2: that history, Cheryl.
[1:05] Speaker 4: Uh, Well, you know, I have leaned into my family
[1:09] Speaker 4: legacy and I understand what it represents, and I understand
[1:14] Speaker 4: the foundation that my forefathers.
[1:17] Speaker 3: Have laid for me.
[1:18] Speaker 4: Uh.
[1:19] Speaker 3: We go all the way back.
[1:20] Speaker 4: To Moses the first and with each generation, uh, the
[1:25] Speaker 4: foundation just increased.
[1:26] Speaker 3: It was, it became.
[1:27] Speaker 4: Deeper and wider, right, And so I stand on the
[1:31] Speaker 4: shoulders of these individuals everywhere I go, and I remind
[1:35] Speaker 4: myself of that, and that's what I'm representing.
[1:39] Speaker 3: And so that's how I manage.
[1:42] Speaker 4: You know, I walk into a room to sell new business, right,
[1:47] Speaker 4: and I know I have four generations of ancestors right
[1:51] Speaker 4: there with me.
[1:52] Speaker 3: Uh, you know, cheering me on.
[1:55] Speaker 4: Uh.
[1:57] Speaker 2: I look at you, and there's a lot of hard
[1:59] Speaker 2: on this. You know. I'm listening to you, and.
[2:01] Speaker 1: I'm just trying to build my little resume of my
[2:03] Speaker 1: little companies I can qualify for an R and P,
[2:06] Speaker 1: which is in some company to give me a shot.
[2:10] Speaker 2: You have.
[2:12] Speaker 3: Centuries, centuries and thirty years to be exactly.
[2:18] Speaker 2: Of a resume. That's impressive because I don't want to.
[2:23] Speaker 1: You know, I read your book, you know, The Black
[2:24] Speaker 1: Family of Built America, a really amazing read for me
[2:29] Speaker 1: because my last name is McDonald.
[2:30] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[2:31] Speaker 1: McDonald's doesn't mean anything to me. The kiss ex that
[2:36] Speaker 1: means something, starting with the slave owner, that the name
[2:41] Speaker 1: you guys are caring today that is now tied to
[2:45] Speaker 1: which was a burden, which was a sense of tragedy
[2:50] Speaker 1: when your relative was brought over by force and enslave.
[2:56] Speaker 1: But now it's recognized as a uplifting, motivational, powerful name.
[3:05] Speaker 2: Talk to us about that.
[3:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, that is kind of interesting that we've taken on
[3:09] Speaker 4: the slave master's name and it's now become our name
[3:13] Speaker 4: and our brands, right, and so you know, it's kind
[3:17] Speaker 4: of like reverse discrimination.
[3:18] Speaker 3: I mean, it's something in there that.
[3:20] Speaker 2: I'm reading the book.
[3:22] Speaker 3: I kept trying to wrap my head around this. I go,
[3:25] Speaker 3: but that's a good thing.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Rashond, this is a good thing, right, mckissics in mcissicks right.
[3:30] Speaker 1: But then when you read the book, you realize that
[3:32] Speaker 1: William McKissick, which is the slave owner in North Carolina
[3:36] Speaker 1: and gave a great great great grandfather the name Moses,
[3:43] Speaker 1: that would name his name, right, And they come from
[3:45] Speaker 1: a Chante, which is this powerful African tribe on West Africa,
[3:49] Speaker 1: And you guys in the book are trying to figure out, well,
[3:51] Speaker 1: if he comes from a powerful African tribe, how did
[3:54] Speaker 1: he get caught?
[3:54] Speaker 2: How did he get his slave?
[3:56] Speaker 1: So there's a journey that I've only experienced in my
[3:59] Speaker 1: life life through roots, Okay, the roots, and so this
[4:04] Speaker 1: book is kind of like a modern version of Roots
[4:07] Speaker 1: to me, but with a much more powerful and enduring
[4:11] Speaker 1: and growing legacy.
[4:13] Speaker 3: Well, I totally agree with you.
[4:15] Speaker 4: You know, it takes roots and then overlaps business and
[4:22] Speaker 4: the ability to overcome slavery and Jim Crow and all
[4:28] Speaker 4: of the racism that took place in the South. And
[4:32] Speaker 4: how can you overcome all of that and still build
[4:37] Speaker 4: a business that lasts today? I mean, you know, one
[4:41] Speaker 4: out of five businesses failed the first year, right, okay,
[4:44] Speaker 4: Only forty percent make it to the second generation, eighteen
[4:48] Speaker 4: to the third, and three percent.
[4:51] Speaker 3: To the fourth.
[4:51] Speaker 4: And here we are the fifth generation, and we're black
[4:54] Speaker 4: in America.
[4:56] Speaker 1: The name of the book again, the Black family who
[4:59] Speaker 1: built a arca the mckisstics two centuries of daring, pioneer, pioneer.
[5:04] Speaker 1: It was written by you and Nick Choell Childs, Childsick
[5:07] Speaker 1: Childs pulla ter winning Yeah right, okay, yeah, Now, you know,
[5:12] Speaker 1: when I'm reading this book, you know, I always admire
[5:18] Speaker 1: the journey of everybody Martin Luther King who experiences racism
[5:23] Speaker 1: to those of the prominent names. But then when I
[5:25] Speaker 1: look at Moses and his brother who were licensed I
[5:29] Speaker 1: think in nineteen twenty two sports tartified in the state
[5:32] Speaker 1: of Tennessee, I go how.
[5:39] Speaker 3: And so that's very interesting.
[5:40] Speaker 4: It was Moses mckiswic the third in Calvin incorporated US
[5:46] Speaker 4: in nineteen oh five. But that was the second mckisic business,
[5:49] Speaker 4: because the first one was with Moses mckiswick. The second
[5:53] Speaker 4: right after emancipation. But in nineteen oh five, the state
[5:57] Speaker 4: of Tennessee didn't have architectural license lows that adn't come
[6:01] Speaker 4: into effect until the twenties, and so for them to
[6:05] Speaker 4: even stay in business, they had to have these licensees.
[6:09] Speaker 3: So first they had.
[6:09] Speaker 4: To go to the school through correspondence and receive their degrees,
[6:14] Speaker 4: and then you know, go apply to take the exam.
[6:18] Speaker 4: And of course the entire board was white and they
[6:21] Speaker 4: did not want my grandfather and my great uncle to
[6:25] Speaker 4: take this exam.
[6:27] Speaker 3: But they were able to lobby the board. And when you're.
[6:31] Speaker 4: Talking about business, think about the fact that they had
[6:35] Speaker 4: this characteristic that they could lobby the board and get one,
[6:39] Speaker 4: just one board member to say, okay, we should not
[6:43] Speaker 4: prevent these two gentlemen from taking this exam, and he
[6:47] Speaker 4: had to use the excuse they're not going to pass anyway,
[6:52] Speaker 4: and so they took the exam they passed the first time,
[6:57] Speaker 4: and you know then the board's like, well, we don't
[6:59] Speaker 4: really want to get these Now we're stuck, like what
[7:02] Speaker 4: do we do?
[7:03] Speaker 3: But the same board member went back and so I
[7:06] Speaker 3: don't know who.
[7:06] Speaker 4: Was the most clever in this, the mcusics or the
[7:09] Speaker 4: board member where they working together. I mean to have
[7:12] Speaker 4: this strategy that they use for the mcasics to get
[7:15] Speaker 4: their license, but they had to give it to them.
[7:18] Speaker 4: And then they became the first black license architects in
[7:21] Speaker 4: America with license one seventeen and one eighteen. And because
[7:25] Speaker 4: of that, the Tennessee Licensing Board now gets all this
[7:28] Speaker 4: notoriety because they have licensed the first black men in
[7:33] Speaker 4: America and as a result of that, they have a
[7:37] Speaker 4: reversal in their stands on whether they should be licensed
[7:41] Speaker 4: or not, and they decide they should be licensed and
[7:45] Speaker 4: help them to get licensed in twenty two other states.
[7:49] Speaker 1: Wow, you know what, I'm gonna stutter a little bit
[7:53] Speaker 1: because I'm like, because what I do? I read the
[7:56] Speaker 1: books the day of the interview, So all this stuff
[7:59] Speaker 1: is framed in my mind, and so so I react
[8:02] Speaker 1: and I'm like, people, go, man, you know a lot
[8:04] Speaker 1: us because I read the book today up and so
[8:07] Speaker 1: you know we're talking Pulaski, Tennessee.
[8:09] Speaker 2: Okay. And then you guys moved to Nashville. Okay. When
[8:12] Speaker 2: I say you guys, but that.
[8:14] Speaker 1: Story right there so reminded me of your situation when
[8:18] Speaker 1: it came to the Barclay Center. Okay, it felt so parallel.
[8:23] Speaker 1: And because you were lobbying, you were hustling. I'm use
[8:27] Speaker 1: the word hustling because you had to go here, go
[8:30] Speaker 1: here to you know, I do it, I do it
[8:32] Speaker 1: raising your hand. You know, megistics are doing gistics are
[8:36] Speaker 1: doing it right, like on the front row of high school.
[8:40] Speaker 2: You know, I always want that attention. That's what you were, Seki.
[8:43] Speaker 1: And when I go back in the twenties and I
[8:45] Speaker 1: look at that story, that's all they were trying to do.
[8:47] Speaker 1: They kept raising their hands and they could do it
[8:49] Speaker 1: no matter what. But they had to show they were qualified.
[8:54] Speaker 1: They had to keep telling everybody they can do the job,
[8:58] Speaker 1: just give us a shot. So with me sending the
[9:00] Speaker 1: tone Sheryl, you so if it was written based on
[9:04] Speaker 1: that parallel. Talk about that experience that you just talked
[9:08] Speaker 1: about with Moses and Calvin getting certified in the state
[9:13] Speaker 1: of Tennessee way back in the twenties, even though they
[9:18] Speaker 1: have been doing businesses in nineteen oh five to today,
[9:23] Speaker 1: when the opportunity of the Nets coming to town want
[9:27] Speaker 1: to build a new arena, and the things.
[9:29] Speaker 2: You had to do were not giving away too much
[9:31] Speaker 2: of the book.
[9:32] Speaker 3: Okay, you know it's very interested.
[9:34] Speaker 4: I did not know I was reliving exactly what they relived.
[9:40] Speaker 4: And I love that you're bringing up this parallel because
[9:43] Speaker 4: it's true because I talk about it all the time
[9:45] Speaker 4: that we still have the people with the same mindset
[9:48] Speaker 4: that they had in nineteen twenty two today in twenty
[9:52] Speaker 4: twenty five. But like them, I knew that I needed
[9:56] Speaker 4: to get to the right people to make sure that
[9:59] Speaker 4: MkIS it was a part of this.
[10:01] Speaker 3: Now. Just think I'm looking at TV.
[10:03] Speaker 4: I seen Bruce Brady by the Nets and he ain't
[10:08] Speaker 4: even bottom yet.
[10:09] Speaker 3: But I knew a new arena was coming with it.
[10:12] Speaker 2: As I'm talking about the hustling.
[10:17] Speaker 3: And so you know, like, how am I going to
[10:19] Speaker 3: be a part of it?
[10:21] Speaker 4: And so you know, I begin to think, Okay, a
[10:24] Speaker 4: third of the population in Brooklyn, at least the third is.
[10:28] Speaker 3: Black, you know.
[10:29] Speaker 4: But it's it's a diaspora, absolutely, because it's gone all
[10:33] Speaker 4: you know.
[10:34] Speaker 3: It's Caribbean black, okay.
[10:37] Speaker 4: Mixed in with blacks from the South like me, and
[10:40] Speaker 4: getting us.
[10:40] Speaker 3: All rowing together is not easy. But I made sure
[10:45] Speaker 3: that I made.
[10:46] Speaker 4: A list of all the black organizations, all the black
[10:50] Speaker 4: influencers and political people, and I went to see them,
[10:53] Speaker 4: and I went and told them my story, and I
[10:56] Speaker 4: appealed to whatever they needed to hear.
[11:00] Speaker 3: Or whatever they need. But this is amazing because she's.
[11:07] Speaker 1: Gonna give away the book, and I want you to
[11:10] Speaker 1: buy this book because of the fact that it's like
[11:14] Speaker 1: she sees something on TV, she sees an opportunity. She
[11:18] Speaker 1: is just going, oh, that'll never be my opportunity. She
[11:21] Speaker 1: figured out a way to how do I get in
[11:23] Speaker 1: front of it? How do I not only get in
[11:25] Speaker 1: front of it, become a recognized participant of it. And
[11:29] Speaker 1: as African Americans, we so often say I can't take it.
[11:34] Speaker 2: That's not me.
[11:35] Speaker 3: It's not gonna happen.
[11:36] Speaker 2: It's not going to happen to me. That's the exact
[11:38] Speaker 2: right that we used. Absolutely and That's why I was
[11:41] Speaker 2: important that I bring that up, because if I.
[11:43] Speaker 1: Go back to Moses and Calvin, black people saying that
[11:48] Speaker 1: back then, that didn't never happen for you guys.
[11:50] Speaker 4: And that's not true. You know, you have to say
[11:53] Speaker 4: the opposite to yourself, and you have to put one
[11:56] Speaker 4: foot in front of the other and do what's on
[11:59] Speaker 4: your mind and whatever your do list strategy is today.
[12:03] Speaker 4: And I believe in God's economy, nothing goes to waste,
[12:06] Speaker 4: and if you put the energy in.
[12:08] Speaker 3: It's going to come back to you.
[12:10] Speaker 4: And so I knew that if I could just go
[12:13] Speaker 4: out and meet all these various people, that it was
[12:16] Speaker 4: going to come together. Now when I began to study
[12:19] Speaker 4: Calvin and Moses, Moses, you know, they had persistence, they
[12:24] Speaker 4: were prepared, as you talked about, you know, they persevered,
[12:29] Speaker 4: and they were on purpose right, and even fearless and
[12:32] Speaker 4: they were feelings, well, yes, they were fearless.
[12:35] Speaker 3: I'm telling you they had fearless.
[12:36] Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, I'm Cheryl, You're fearless.
[12:39] Speaker 1: Tell you you feel I read the you know, I
[12:42] Speaker 1: interviewed Cheryl back in twenty seventeen, but you know, I
[12:44] Speaker 1: was just starting money making conversations.
[12:46] Speaker 2: She was gracious to allow me to interview her.
[12:49] Speaker 5: Now, I like to believe that I've risen up a
[12:52] Speaker 5: little bit and becoming there are great But you know
[12:56] Speaker 5: that for the and I was interesting.
[12:59] Speaker 2: And let me just tell you all little bit.
[13:00] Speaker 1: Let me ratle off some of some things about her brand,
[13:03] Speaker 1: the mckissics and mckissicks firm, AMTRAKT Atlanta Yard Atlantic Yards
[13:10] Speaker 1: Central Terminal building replacements at LaGuardia Airport, JFK International Airport
[13:16] Speaker 1: at Terminal want. I said that in the intro m
[13:18] Speaker 1: t A New Penn Station, New Jersey Transit, US Airways
[13:25] Speaker 1: Commuter Terminal, alf US air Raids International Terminal, you need
[13:31] Speaker 1: to stop.
[13:32] Speaker 2: Girl. You a hustler with like ste arts.
[13:39] Speaker 1: That's great, congratulations, but then you're not gonna stop though.
[13:43] Speaker 4: No, I mean, thank you so much for that. You know,
[13:47] Speaker 4: I think I learned in Philadelphia that there's always a
[13:51] Speaker 4: technical buyer and there is a political buyer, right. I
[13:55] Speaker 4: feel in Philadelphia I got baptized by fire where I
[13:58] Speaker 4: came to politics, and so I think it's important when
[14:02] Speaker 4: you're looking at any type of pursuit to understand that
[14:07] Speaker 4: you know the technical buyer is.
[14:09] Speaker 3: Going to look at, you know, four.
[14:11] Speaker 4: Or five dissent firms and see if they can check
[14:15] Speaker 4: all of the experience.
[14:16] Speaker 3: And you know, you know.
[14:17] Speaker 4: The knowledge and the type of staff that you're putting
[14:20] Speaker 4: on the job, but the political buyer is very different.
[14:23] Speaker 1: But that's the game that you've learned to understand is
[14:27] Speaker 1: equally as important as your academia, your resume, and the relationship.
[14:35] Speaker 3: You better have that relationship before you need it.
[14:37] Speaker 1: Okay, absolutely, it's some questions I want to bring up
[14:41] Speaker 1: because I want you to drop some gems on my audience,
[14:45] Speaker 1: Like the five p's of family resilience.
[14:48] Speaker 2: Can you talk about that?
[14:49] Speaker 4: Well, those are the five p's I gave you earlier.
[14:52] Speaker 4: It's perseverance, persistence, preparedness. You've got to be prepared to
[14:58] Speaker 4: deliver quality work, and then you got to be on purpose.
[15:03] Speaker 4: Now the fifth PI ad it and that's prayer. Because
[15:06] Speaker 4: sometimes you do get up in the morning and you say,
[15:09] Speaker 4: it's not for me. I'm not going to make it,
[15:11] Speaker 4: I'm not going to get there. It's just not for me.
[15:13] Speaker 4: You cannot ever let that enter your mind. You have
[15:16] Speaker 4: to come back and meditate on the fact that you're
[15:20] Speaker 4: a winner.
[15:21] Speaker 6: Don't go anywhere we will be right back with more
[15:23] Speaker 6: insights from Money Making Conversation mastic Class. Welcome back to
[15:31] Speaker 6: money Making Conversation mastic Lass with me, Rashaun McDonald.
[15:35] Speaker 1: Why is it important that you write this book now, Cheryl.
[15:39] Speaker 3: Oh, good question.
[15:41] Speaker 4: This is the time that this book should be out because.
[15:45] Speaker 3: They are trying to do away with our history.
[15:50] Speaker 4: I'm so happy to get rid of the Smithsonian Institute.
[15:54] Speaker 4: On Sunday in the Times, New York Times, they're talking
[15:59] Speaker 4: about the President trying to embrace anything around slavery.
[16:03] Speaker 3: Yes, D E and I programs, which.
[16:06] Speaker 4: You know, I built my business on D E and
[16:08] Speaker 4: I programs.
[16:09] Speaker 3: When I first arrived in New York with a.
[16:13] Speaker 4: Company with almost two hundred years of experience, right I
[16:18] Speaker 4: still needed a DEI program.
[16:21] Speaker 3: And so this.
[16:22] Speaker 4: Book right here is a receipt to say we are around,
[16:26] Speaker 4: we have a foundation. We're not going anywhere. You may
[16:30] Speaker 4: not have known about black excellence, you just ignored it.
[16:32] Speaker 3: But we exist. And that is why this book is
[16:36] Speaker 3: important right now.
[16:37] Speaker 1: This book, this book, this book, I'm saying the name again,
[16:41] Speaker 1: keep saying that for audio purposes and visual purposes. If
[16:44] Speaker 1: you get to see this on YouTube on the television
[16:47] Speaker 1: show the black family who built America. When I read that,
[16:52] Speaker 1: now went the black family who Why did.
[16:54] Speaker 2: You say that like that? Why did you say that
[16:57] Speaker 2: like that? Show?
[16:58] Speaker 3: Well, we did.
[16:59] Speaker 2: Know that's the reason how you.
[17:01] Speaker 4: Think now, Yes, it has a lot of connotations behind it.
[17:07] Speaker 4: First of all, we did want to capture people's attention.
[17:11] Speaker 4: But black people built America. And that's the point we're
[17:15] Speaker 4: making here, right.
[17:16] Speaker 1: That's why it's so timely, Yes, because of the fact
[17:19] Speaker 1: that we need to tell our stories and our roles,
[17:23] Speaker 1: because so often black people are a stereotyped as needing
[17:29] Speaker 1: a help in hand, or always wanting something and not
[17:32] Speaker 1: giving something.
[17:34] Speaker 2: And we have a black family that is at the
[17:37] Speaker 2: forefront of.
[17:38] Speaker 1: High level construction, yes, decision making and rewriting the infrastructure
[17:45] Speaker 1: of our daily lives. I would tell my staff CHERYLD,
[17:50] Speaker 1: I tell them that we impact somebody's life every day.
[17:55] Speaker 2: I tell them that, and I.
[17:56] Speaker 1: Say that that's why I'm always talking about control. Now,
[18:03] Speaker 1: I'm just in the audio game. You in the building game, Cheryl.
[18:08] Speaker 1: I mean if a brick's not right, cheap ce met
[18:14] Speaker 1: or talk about that amount of responsibility because people are
[18:19] Speaker 1: walking in these buildings, people are living in these buildings.
[18:23] Speaker 2: People are flying into these buildings. There's a lot of pressure, Cheryl.
[18:27] Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, and but we've been doing it for
[18:31] Speaker 4: so long. You know, it's in our wheelhouse. And you know,
[18:35] Speaker 4: I would have to say the business you're in is
[18:38] Speaker 4: one that we need to concentrate on because it's the
[18:41] Speaker 4: images that we show people that create their perception.
[18:46] Speaker 3: Of who we are.
[18:48] Speaker 4: You know, in my book, we talk about Birth of
[18:51] Speaker 4: a Nation, the film that came out in nineteen fifteen,
[18:56] Speaker 4: right when black people were beginning to thrive outside of
[19:01] Speaker 4: you know, right after emancipation, and they had a lot
[19:05] Speaker 4: of white patriots, you know, but when this movie came
[19:09] Speaker 4: out and it was a.
[19:11] Speaker 3: Black blustered success. Okay, the President showed it in his.
[19:18] Speaker 4: In the White House, but it depicted black people as
[19:23] Speaker 4: as killers, as sexual molesters, I mean, as thieves, and
[19:28] Speaker 4: sub human and it also scolded white people who wanted
[19:34] Speaker 4: to actually patronize and embrace us and bring us into
[19:38] Speaker 4: the fold. That movie showed them, no, you do not
[19:42] Speaker 4: need to do that. That would be a big mistake.
[19:44] Speaker 4: And of course the ones who wanted who hated us,
[19:46] Speaker 4: who wanted to kill us, it gave them license to kill, right,
[19:49] Speaker 4: and that is the importance of image. So I was
[19:53] Speaker 4: justin Martha's vineyard at the Black Filmfest and.
[19:58] Speaker 3: That was my.
[20:00] Speaker 4: They came from a book tour, and this is exactly
[20:04] Speaker 4: what I talked about, because where are we now one
[20:06] Speaker 4: hundred years later? Black people are showing us on film.
[20:11] Speaker 4: But it's not sanitized, it's not censored, right, It's who
[20:15] Speaker 4: we are, who really are, and you know, I hope
[20:19] Speaker 4: that we continue to do that.
[20:21] Speaker 1: My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
[20:25] Speaker 1: and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
[20:30] Speaker 1: have been left all across the United States, spanning from
[20:33] Speaker 1: reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Morris Memorial Building,
[20:39] Speaker 1: kper cm Church, John F. Kennedy International Airport in Philadelphia's
[20:45] Speaker 1: Lincoln Financial Fiel your book, Cherild, I keep bringing up
[20:50] Speaker 1: the black family who built America. Now let's talk about you,
[20:54] Speaker 1: because you talk about yourself in this book a little bit.
[20:57] Speaker 2: Getting my life right, you know what, I'm saying, a
[20:59] Speaker 2: little drink to be claiming myself.
[21:04] Speaker 1: And I'm laughing at that because I think that sometimes
[21:07] Speaker 1: because I always talk about this about my show about
[21:10] Speaker 1: finding Yourself, and I always say that between the ages
[21:14] Speaker 1: of eighteen and twenty two, we as individuals are unstoppable,
[21:20] Speaker 1: and sometimes when we get out of that twenty two,
[21:22] Speaker 1: we change, or either marriage can take in their direction
[21:26] Speaker 1: of lifestyle or children can take in that direction. And
[21:30] Speaker 1: in this book, you changed, but you had to get
[21:34] Speaker 1: yourself back. And it's discussing this book and that's why
[21:39] Speaker 1: it's important that you tell my listeners or viewers why
[21:43] Speaker 1: it's important to sustain who you are despite many level
[21:48] Speaker 1: of success or being in a relationship.
[21:51] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's important that you are true to yourself, but
[21:56] Speaker 4: there are situations in life that will take you out
[21:59] Speaker 4: of that, and sometimes you might need to go down
[22:02] Speaker 4: that path just so you can understand how detrimental it
[22:06] Speaker 4: is not to be yourself. And you know, I do
[22:09] Speaker 4: talk about that in my book. For me, it happened
[22:12] Speaker 4: to be a marriage that really took me out of
[22:15] Speaker 4: who I am and finding my way back was a
[22:20] Speaker 4: lot of fun.
[22:20] Speaker 5: Though, keep going, continue because I don't keep cracking, because
[22:27] Speaker 5: I've read this book as fresh in my mind and
[22:30] Speaker 5: we'll be laughing and you go, what.
[22:32] Speaker 2: Need to be about? You stayed, continue your process.
[22:36] Speaker 4: I just had no idea that I was so far
[22:39] Speaker 4: off course, and you know mine was my relationship with alcohol.
[22:45] Speaker 3: And you know, growing up early on, I tell the
[22:49] Speaker 3: story about the first time.
[22:51] Speaker 4: My father said, Okay, you all are going to have
[22:53] Speaker 4: a drink today and I'm going to be the first
[22:56] Speaker 4: man to get you drunk.
[22:58] Speaker 3: And were sent.
[22:58] Speaker 4: At his bar and he hoard us these big glasses
[23:01] Speaker 4: of Jack daniels. My twin sister and I both drinking,
[23:05] Speaker 4: and our mother comes around the corner right when we
[23:08] Speaker 4: are finishing and about to fall out the.
[23:09] Speaker 2: Chair, right.
[23:10] Speaker 4: So you know, our family grew up where you know,
[23:14] Speaker 4: we'd have wine for dinner and all that kind of stuff.
[23:17] Speaker 4: And then I meet this man who doesn't want me
[23:19] Speaker 4: to drink anymore, and I completely.
[23:22] Speaker 3: Cut it off. But it just it made me not
[23:27] Speaker 3: who I really was, and I.
[23:29] Speaker 4: Ended up, you know, at my doctor's office stressed, stressed
[23:34] Speaker 4: out completely, young kids not understanding you know why I
[23:39] Speaker 4: could not get settled. And I'm not saying alcohol truly
[23:44] Speaker 4: settles you, but being yourself well.
[23:46] Speaker 1: Bisions is what we were talking about, right, And guess
[23:49] Speaker 1: what the word stress was introduced to you now? Everybody
[23:52] Speaker 1: talk about stress nowadays, you know, mental health is a
[23:55] Speaker 1: part of everybody's conversation, and black people don't even want
[23:59] Speaker 1: to talk about it, even though it's still popular or
[24:01] Speaker 1: it's popularized that you should realize that there are issues
[24:04] Speaker 1: that you have to deal with on a daily and
[24:06] Speaker 1: ongoing basis. Now, when it was being brought to you
[24:10] Speaker 1: about stress, how did you deal with that and how
[24:12] Speaker 1: did you comprehend that was something or reality that you
[24:16] Speaker 1: were living.
[24:17] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the stress would grow over time because
[24:20] Speaker 4: when you are building a business, you know, you're the
[24:25] Speaker 4: chief bottle.
[24:26] Speaker 3: Washer, cook and everything else. There's a period of time
[24:30] Speaker 3: of that.
[24:30] Speaker 4: There's a period of time of just going out into
[24:33] Speaker 4: the world and trying to you know, bring in new
[24:36] Speaker 4: business and increase your revenues, and so all of that
[24:41] Speaker 4: creates stress.
[24:42] Speaker 3: And you're working around the clock.
[24:44] Speaker 4: I remember catching you know, six o'clock trains out of
[24:48] Speaker 4: Penn Station to go to Philly and then come back
[24:51] Speaker 4: home and get back to New York at like ten
[24:54] Speaker 4: o'clock at night and still having to drive back home.
[24:57] Speaker 3: You know, all of that create stress.
[25:01] Speaker 4: You know, you're meeting people at events at night, you're
[25:06] Speaker 4: having a dinner in an event, and it just it
[25:08] Speaker 4: never ends. And so that along with personal stress, you
[25:13] Speaker 4: can begin to lose who you are, and so I
[25:19] Speaker 4: deal with stress very differently today.
[25:22] Speaker 3: First of all, I recognize it.
[25:24] Speaker 4: I recognize that I am currently feeling stressed out. So
[25:28] Speaker 4: what do I need to do? And I usually will
[25:31] Speaker 4: go meditate. We have a meditation room in our office
[25:35] Speaker 4: and I can barely get in there most days because
[25:37] Speaker 4: everybody's in there right right.
[25:40] Speaker 3: And I'm like knocking on the door, It's my turn.
[25:46] Speaker 4: But there is something about calming yourself and being in
[25:49] Speaker 4: the moment. I did that this morning in this beautiful
[25:53] Speaker 4: airbnb we have here in Atlanta, with the trees around,
[25:57] Speaker 4: and I said, no cell phone, just sit here, just try.
[26:01] Speaker 4: You know, ten fifteen minutes of this, I swear it'll
[26:04] Speaker 4: change your world.
[26:05] Speaker 3: But not only that.
[26:07] Speaker 4: You begin to get all these thoughts, all these creative,
[26:11] Speaker 4: innovative thoughts that give you your next steps to take
[26:15] Speaker 4: the stress off of you.
[26:17] Speaker 1: It's important that in your book I bring up your
[26:20] Speaker 1: mom opes.
[26:21] Speaker 2: I love her, you know, because of the fact that again, as.
[26:26] Speaker 1: A black woman, a woman of African American descent, you know,
[26:30] Speaker 1: stay of tennessee your father talk about her and her resilience,
[26:36] Speaker 1: talk about some of the things she had to overcome
[26:39] Speaker 1: when it continue the legacy that you're driving forth.
[26:44] Speaker 2: Now.
[26:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, Mom is a dynamo. You know. She had been
[26:52] Speaker 3: supporting my father for many, many years and she's.
[26:55] Speaker 2: Still in Nashville.
[26:56] Speaker 3: And she's still in Nashville.
[26:57] Speaker 4: She turned ninety five in July, and so she was
[27:03] Speaker 4: on the periphery of the company because she would tell
[27:06] Speaker 4: my father, well, instead of taking your clients out to dinner,
[27:09] Speaker 4: bring them home. And she would have these lavish meals
[27:13] Speaker 4: with the best china and wine and appetizers, entrede dessert
[27:19] Speaker 4: and she would make all of that. But she's sitting
[27:21] Speaker 4: there listening as well. So when my father had his
[27:26] Speaker 4: massive stroke and she had to step in and take
[27:29] Speaker 4: over the business, she only knew the telephone number to
[27:33] Speaker 4: the office at that time, but she knew deep inside
[27:38] Speaker 4: that she wanted to hold on for the fifth generation.
[27:42] Speaker 3: The city of Nashville.
[27:44] Speaker 4: Other architectural firms and construction firms at the time approached
[27:48] Speaker 4: her and told her, you're a woman. You can't run
[27:52] Speaker 4: this business. You're not an architect, you're not an engineer.
[27:56] Speaker 4: Can we just buy your firm? And it would have
[27:59] Speaker 4: been easy for her just to sell, but she's like, no,
[28:03] Speaker 4: I am going to keep this firm alive for my
[28:07] Speaker 4: three daughters, just in case one of them wants to
[28:10] Speaker 4: come back and join it. She had a master's degree
[28:14] Speaker 4: in psychology. She's a teacher, right, She was a teacher,
[28:18] Speaker 4: a very good teacher. I've met a lot of her
[28:21] Speaker 4: students over the years, and we like to say, at
[28:25] Speaker 4: least I like to say that her masters agree in psychology,
[28:29] Speaker 4: helped her to deal with the manias and phobias of men.
[28:32] Speaker 3: Who couldn't understand a woman could run a business.
[28:35] Speaker 4: So, this is the eighties. She could not borrow money.
[28:39] Speaker 4: Women period could not borrow money. Their sons, their uncles,
[28:43] Speaker 4: everybody else could if you were a man. It wasn't
[28:46] Speaker 4: until nineteen ninety at the Women's Business Act that was
[28:49] Speaker 4: passed by Congress that she could begin to borrow money.
[28:53] Speaker 4: So she had to overcome that obstacle, but she was
[28:58] Speaker 4: masterful at it at selling business. We went to Tuskegee University.
[29:05] Speaker 4: We met with doctor Peyton and she was opening up
[29:09] Speaker 4: a new building that we had designed. And doctor Peyton
[29:14] Speaker 4: came over to her and it's like, you know, Lee,
[29:16] Speaker 4: when I've told you from the very beginning, this is
[29:19] Speaker 4: the South. It gets hot down here I need operable windows.
[29:26] Speaker 3: And Mom said they're not operable. He said, not one
[29:30] Speaker 3: she's she said, okay, She's like, you know.
[29:34] Speaker 4: What, I'm going to change out every window and I'm
[29:38] Speaker 4: going to pay for it.
[29:39] Speaker 2: Wow.
[29:41] Speaker 4: So now we're walking through the campus and she looks
[29:44] Speaker 4: over and she sees this old, dilapidated building. They're literally
[29:49] Speaker 4: storing lawn equipment there. She says to doctor Peyton, I
[29:53] Speaker 4: see you living there. And I'm thinking to myself, is
[29:56] Speaker 4: mom has she lost? And he's taking the same thing.
[30:00] Speaker 4: She said, no, let's go over there. It's this beautiful,
[30:03] Speaker 4: stately building that was just in disrepair, beautiful couple at
[30:09] Speaker 4: the top. He commissioned her to redesign that building and
[30:14] Speaker 4: renovate it and make it his home.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Wow.
[30:17] Speaker 4: And it's called Great Columns and it's still standing on
[30:20] Speaker 4: tuskyu's campus. So she fixed one problem and got another.
[30:28] Speaker 1: For a hustle pain from mom and daughter. Come on, now,
[30:36] Speaker 1: you know it's such a beautiful story. And again reading
[30:40] Speaker 1: your book, geryld, I know you keep going. He did
[30:43] Speaker 1: read it.
[30:48] Speaker 3: Let you know you didn't read it. You didn't read it.
[30:50] Speaker 1: Yes, he's a you know hidden figures really popular movies.
[30:55] Speaker 1: Uh to Rogi p Henson started in it, and oftentimes
[31:00] Speaker 1: your family legacy has been tied to like the hidden
[31:03] Speaker 1: figures of construction.
[31:05] Speaker 2: Talk about that.
[31:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's very interesting that people walk in
[31:10] Speaker 4: the structures all day long.
[31:13] Speaker 3: I don't care.
[31:14] Speaker 4: If it's their grocery store, their school, their hospital, you know,
[31:18] Speaker 4: the airport, train station. They're walking into some establishment every day.
[31:25] Speaker 4: But they never think of who built this, right, And
[31:28] Speaker 4: you know, so we're trying to elevate this profession and
[31:33] Speaker 4: to brand it as a profession that can build wealth.
[31:37] Speaker 4: And you know, it's another alternative for our young people
[31:41] Speaker 4: to consider when they think about a career. And so
[31:46] Speaker 4: when you think about the hidden figures of the world,
[31:49] Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't until we heard that story did
[31:53] Speaker 4: we even know there were computer people acting as computers.
[31:59] Speaker 3: But they were black women.
[32:01] Speaker 4: And it's the same with our story. You never think
[32:03] Speaker 4: about who's building something. But then when you look further
[32:07] Speaker 4: and deeper into it, not only are the people who
[32:10] Speaker 4: are building it, you know, majority or whatever, they're black people, right,
[32:16] Speaker 4: And so that's how to me, you know, that is
[32:19] Speaker 4: the corel that's why they correlate between those two examples
[32:24] Speaker 4: that you just gave.
[32:25] Speaker 1: Well, you know the amazing thing. First of all, thank
[32:28] Speaker 1: you for giving me the time to talk to you
[32:30] Speaker 1: in this forum. Cheryl. You know, the book is about
[32:35] Speaker 1: history repeat itself. It's about motivation, resiliency, overcoming the odds,
[32:43] Speaker 1: uplift relationships. That because I'm talking to small business owners,
[32:48] Speaker 1: I'm talking to nonprofits, I'm talking about entrepreneurs. And this
[32:52] Speaker 1: book is really a must read in my eyes, yes,
[32:58] Speaker 1: because it's so many lessons to be learned and to
[33:01] Speaker 1: be told. As we close out this interview, we've discussed
[33:05] Speaker 1: a lot of amazing stories that are coming out of
[33:08] Speaker 1: this book. Just a small part of your legacy that
[33:11] Speaker 1: you continue today with your super hustle.
[33:17] Speaker 2: Super Hustle that's a nickname.
[33:21] Speaker 1: Because your family super hustles back then Moses and Calvin,
[33:26] Speaker 1: back in the day Moses when he's giving the first
[33:28] Speaker 1: opportunity and they were being allowed to travel in the
[33:32] Speaker 1: state of North Carolina with notes. That's the only way
[33:35] Speaker 1: slaves could get around. They would have to get a
[33:37] Speaker 1: note to travel from place.
[33:38] Speaker 2: To place to justify the read it and so but that,
[33:47] Speaker 2: But the.
[33:48] Speaker 1: Legacy of Meckissic and mckissic was William mckissicks was a
[33:53] Speaker 1: slave owner who purchased Moses when he was eleven years old,
[33:58] Speaker 1: and that started the legacy that were and today your
[34:01] Speaker 1: final thoughts.
[34:03] Speaker 4: My final thoughts, especially for the small businesses, the nonprofits
[34:09] Speaker 4: and all of that. Like this book does talk about entrepreneurship,
[34:13] Speaker 4: and that's the beginning, but let's talk about sustainability. How
[34:19] Speaker 4: to keep it sustainable in perpetuity, you know, posterity.
[34:25] Speaker 3: Let's talk about what do you need to do for that?
[34:28] Speaker 4: And you know I always tell business owners, you got
[34:33] Speaker 4: to think about your exit.
[34:34] Speaker 3: You got to think about your end game because it's common,
[34:38] Speaker 3: whether you're wanted to or not.
[34:39] Speaker 4: Succession is important, yes, and so I just want to
[34:44] Speaker 4: make sure people are really understanding that they need to
[34:49] Speaker 4: plan a succession and don't think you can do it
[34:53] Speaker 4: like the last two years that you want to work
[34:55] Speaker 4: before you retire, but this is something that takes ten
[34:58] Speaker 4: years to plan. In our world, we're creating and have
[35:03] Speaker 4: created a very strong management team. So the company now
[35:08] Speaker 4: can run with more than just me managing and telling
[35:13] Speaker 4: everyone what to do. Matter of fact, it runs without
[35:16] Speaker 4: me right now. And I don't plan to retire or
[35:21] Speaker 4: step back until twenty thirty.
[35:23] Speaker 3: So I'm giving my plan many.
[35:26] Speaker 4: Years to work out all the kinks while I'm still around,
[35:31] Speaker 4: and that is what I want to say. Also want
[35:34] Speaker 4: to tell people to start doing a family tree, to
[35:37] Speaker 4: start writing down what they do.
[35:39] Speaker 3: Know about their families.
[35:41] Speaker 4: You know, you have to know at least two generations
[35:48] Speaker 4: at least too.
[35:49] Speaker 2: You stop that I thought to go back to Streetport
[35:52] Speaker 2: Louis stuff like that.
[35:55] Speaker 3: You'd be surprised.
[35:57] Speaker 1: I know, I'm I'm not surprised is the person I'm
[36:00] Speaker 1: talking to today. I am so proud of you, and
[36:05] Speaker 1: I say that with great sincerity. I'm so proud when
[36:08] Speaker 1: I'm able to talk to I.
[36:10] Speaker 2: Like to believe living legends.
[36:13] Speaker 3: Oh thank you.
[36:14] Speaker 1: You've established a legacy with your family and you're not stopping,
[36:19] Speaker 1: and your kids are not going to stop. You won't
[36:21] Speaker 1: let them stop because you know there's history and it's
[36:25] Speaker 1: not going to die on the vine while you're alive.
[36:28] Speaker 2: And so twenty thirty is coming, But that doesn't mean
[36:31] Speaker 2: twenty thirty one. You don't have nothing to say.
[36:34] Speaker 3: That's right, You've got.
[36:37] Speaker 2: What you're doing working on.
[36:43] Speaker 3: See my mother.
[36:45] Speaker 2: Yes, you amazing, Thank you sir for coming to my show.
[36:48] Speaker 1: In your book my Black family who built America, The Mechistics,
[36:52] Speaker 1: two centuries of daring pioneers, Sarah mckistics, Daniel with Nick Childs. Yes,
[36:58] Speaker 1: thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation.
[37:00] Speaker 3: My pleasure.
[37:02] Speaker 1: This has been another edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass
[37:07] Speaker 1: hosted by me Rashaan McDonald. Thank you to our guests
[37:10] Speaker 1: on the show today and thank you our listening audience. Now,
[37:14] Speaker 1: if you want to listen to any episode I want
[37:17] Speaker 1: to register to be a guest on my show, visit
[37:20] Speaker 1: Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversations.
[37:26] Speaker 2: Join us next week and remember to always leave with
[37:29] Speaker 2: your gifts. Keep winning,

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