# Gospel | Chapter 7: Dec 14, 1882 (Part 5) | Swami Sarvapriyananda

An episode of [Vedanta Talks - Swami Sarvapriyananda](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1247628265), 27 Sep 2026, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://audio4.redcircle.com/episodes/51a5bd3a-24c6-4eba-9f71-580cb6a6fc46/stream.mp3

Swami Sarvapriyananda reads and discusses the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna is an English translation of the Bengali spiritual text Sri Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita by Swami Nikhilananda. The text records conversations of Ramakrishna with his disciples, devotees and visitors, recorded by Mahendranath Gupta, who wrote the book under the pseudonym of "M." This session was recorded on Jan 24, 2023. 🙏 Please Support the Vedanta Society of New York http://www.vedantany.org/donate 🌐 Please Visit Us • Website: https://vedantany.org • Apple & Spotify Podcasts: https://www.vedantany.org/media-channels • YouTube (Main Channel): / @vedantany • YouTube (Archives): / @vedantanyarchives • Facebook: / vedantany • X / Twitter: / vedantany 📙 Books by Swami Sarvapriyananda • https://www.vedantany.org/swamis-books Lecture Series by Swami Sarvapriyananda 📓 Introductory Lectures: https://www.vedantany.org/introductor... 📚 Vedanta Scriptures: https://www.vedantany.org/by-scriptures 🧩 Lectures by Topics: https://www.vedantany.org/by-topic 💬 AskSwami Q&A: https://www.vedantany.org/ask-swami-qa 📖 Scriptures Taught by Swami Sarvapriyananda • Aparokshanubhuti | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Bhagavad Gita | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Brihadaranyaka Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriy... • Dṛg Dṛśya Viveka | Swami Sarvapriyananda • The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna | Swami Sarv... • Isha Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Katha Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Kena Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Mandukya Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Mundaka Upanishad | Swami Sarvapriyananda • Vedantasara of Sadananda | Swami Sarvapriy... 🪔 About Vedanta Vedanta is among the world’s oldest spiritual philosophies and one of its most inclusive. Rooted in the Vedas, India’s sacred scriptures, Vedanta upholds the unity of all existence, the divinity of the soul, and harmony among religions. 🏛️ About This Channel This is the official channel of the Vedanta Society of New York, a spiritual institution affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India and holds the distinction of being its first established Center, founded by Swami Vivekananda in 1894. Swami Sarvapriyananda currently serves as the Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.

## Transcript

[0:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So in this long dialogue between Sri Ramakrishna and some close disciples, especially Vijay Krishna Goswami, this is
[0:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Thursday 14th December 1882 continued.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We are on page 168 at the very end.
[0:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I read a little bit of this last time, but I didn't get a chance to comment upon it.
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So we'll read that part again.
[0:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And in this class, as you know, you can you're always free to comment question.
[1:04] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Vijay.
[1:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sir, why are we bound like this?
[1:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why don't we see God?
[1:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Master.
[1:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: May I is nothing but the ego-tism of the embodied soul.
[1:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This ego-tism has covered everything like a veil.
[1:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All troubles come to an end when the ego dies.
[1:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If, by the grace of God, a man but once realizes that he is not the doer, then he at once becomes a jivenmukta.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Though living in the body is liberated, he has nothing else to fear.
[1:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This Maya, that is to say the ego, is like a cloud.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The sun cannot be seen on account of a thin
[1:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If by the grace of the Guru, once ego vanishes, then one sees God.
[2:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Rama, who is God himself, was only two and a half cubits ahead of Lakshmana.
[2:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But Lakshmana couldn't see him, because Sita stood between them.
[2:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Lakshmana may be compared to the Jiva and Sita to Maya.
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Man cannot see God on account of the barrier of Maya.
[2:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just look, I am creating a barrier in front of my face with this towel.
[2:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now you can't see me, even though I am so near.
[2:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Likewise, God is the nearest of all, but we cannot see him on account of this covering of Maya.
[2:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The Jeeva is nothing but the embodiment of Satya Dhananda, but since Myr ego has created various Upadhi's, he has forgotten his real self.
[2:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Each Upadhi changes man's nature.
[3:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If he wears a fine black border cloth, you will at once find him humming Nidu Babu's love songs.
[3:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then playing cards, and walking and walking stick will follow, and walking stick follow.
[3:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If even a sickly man puts on high boots, he begins to whistle and climbs the stairs like an Englishman, jumping from one step to another.
[3:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If a man but holds a pen in his hand, his scribbles on any paper he can get hold of, such as the power of the pen.
[3:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now it is he would definitely say something about the power of the mobile phone.
[3:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's most most obvious everywhere.
[3:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Money is also a great oparty.
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The possession of money makes such a difference in a man.
[3:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He is no longer the same person.
[3:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A Brahmin used to frequent a temple garden outwardly he was very modest.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No sooner did we get off the boat, then we noticed the Brahmin seated on the bank of the Ganges.
[4:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We thought he had been enjoying the fresh air, looking at us, he said, hello there priest, how do you do?
[4:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I marked his tone and said to Ridae.
[4:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The man must have got some money.
[4:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's why he talks that way.
[4:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Ridae laughed.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A frog had a rupee, which he kept in his hole.
[4:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One day an elephant was going over the hole, and the frog coming out in a fit of anger.
[4:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Raised his foot, as if to kick the elephant and said, how dare you walk over my head.
[4:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Such is the pride that money begots.
[4:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Let's just do a little bit of this and then we go ahead.
[4:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So Vijay asks, why are we bound?
[4:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why don't we see God?
[5:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then Saddam Krishna gives the usual Vedantic answer.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's all Maya.
[5:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then, he makes it precise.
[5:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I mean, just to say it's Maya, well, what does one do with that?
[5:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But he makes it precise.
[5:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's nothing but egotism of the embodied soul.
[5:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you want to look it, Maya seems very vague.
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What's Maya?
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Where's Maya?
[5:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the sense of I, the ego, that's very clear for all of us.
[5:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And Sri Ramakrishna says, look there for Maya, the sense of I, which binds us to this body and mind that I am this person.
[5:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: With my, you know, personality, my narration of my life, my ambitions, hopes, frustrations, grudges, likes and dislikes, the whole bundle.
[5:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is all, all, it's like a cloud around the ego.
[5:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that ego is who I am.
[6:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Of course, if you do a little bit of Vedantic analysis, we see clearly we are not the ego.
[6:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: ego is just a function in the mind.
[6:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Vedantic Sara would we have done it, you know?
[6:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It says defines the ego as a Vimana at Vikantakkaranavritati, that function of the mind which functions as what the purpose of that function, it says I and it's the unifying function, but basically what the ego does, it's just an activity of the mind.
[6:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Avulman Atmika means it appropriates, so talking is going on, and what does the ego do?
[6:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am talking, thinking is going on, what does the ego do?
[6:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am thinking, there's a feeling of hunger, peculiar feeling in the tummy, and what does the ego do?
[6:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am hungry.
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: is a flash of anger.
[6:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But does the ego do?
[6:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am angry.
[6:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the ego is, and it's when this is anything, it unifies the activities of the psyche and the body altogether.
[7:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Mind senses body all integrated by a function of the mind itself.
[7:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Call the ego.
[7:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then again, this is not theory or speculation.
[7:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just exactly what it is to take a look.
[7:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's what the ego does.
[7:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But we are not the ego.
[7:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the very good way of looking at it is we are, we can easily see that we are the witness of the ego.
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We, we notice the functioning of the ego.
[7:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And more interestingly, we notice the lack of functioning of the ego also.
[7:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sometimes when, in a deep sleep, the ego disappears.
[7:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In deep concentration.
[7:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and you've focused, playing a game of tennis or a doctor is doing some kind of an operation procedure, deep focus, where there's no time to think or no occasion to think of anything else, even the sense of ego goes away.
[7:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You're playing as opposed to playing a game, like a table tennis or a ten-long tennis or something like that.
[7:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if you're completely absorbed in it, if you think of yourself, I am going to do this, then you can't.
[8:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can't play well.
[8:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you're playing a musical instrument, and you're playing it well, you're absorbed in it.
[8:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You notice then the ego can't come in there.
[8:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If it does come in, it'll interfere with your playing.
[8:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is what he found it out.
[8:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The psychologist, Mihai Jixen Mihai, the person who coined the term flow.
[8:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He passed away just.
[8:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: this year, I think, or last year, this year, probably, this year or last year.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He passed, but he was this Eastern European psychologist who developed the concept of flow.
[8:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He worked here in the United States.
[8:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would highly recommend that one book, the first book, he wrote a number of books, the first book, Flow, FLW, where he talks about, you know, his whole search,
[8:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That, I mean, first his search was, what is it that gives us the best moments of our life?
[9:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The best moments of our lives, the best life that we can have, the best moments of our life.
[9:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he noticed one common factor that whichever of the best moments of our life, we are fully engaged there, we're fully engaged and we are fully engaged in some positive pursuit.
[9:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Higher positive pursuit, which calls upon all our resources and we're engaged in it.
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he noticed that to have a very full life of full experience, you know, but Maslow called peak experiences, one characteristic common characteristic was attention.
[9:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So all our attention is focused at that moment or for that period of time.
[9:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he developed this idea of flow.
[9:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So over time he became more interested in the phenomenon of attention.
[9:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and he gave it the name Flo.
[9:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He got this term from one music conductor.
[10:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: you know, who says that then I think he or she was conducting an orchestra like a Western classical music full orchestra.
[10:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he says sometimes it really, it everything clicks everything is in place.
[10:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's waving his hand and he gave he used that language, the music just flows.
[10:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, my hijacks and I got that
[10:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: he pointed out it takes a lot of lot of practice to attain that flow state.
[10:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It could be he said it could be in any field.
[10:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In music, in sports, in writing, in your profession, especially if it's a difficult profession like a, it's like a surgeon or something like that.
[10:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So any, any just some sort of any kind of occupation or game,
[10:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then he developed a hold here, the basic crucial idea was that this activity where you get flow should challenge you to the limits of your capacity, neither less nor more.
[11:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If it is less than challenging, then you will get boredom.
[11:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If it is more than challenging, more than our present capacity, when we get unease, we get anxiety,
[11:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he said the whole idea was to attain flow by engaging in an activity to the limit of your capacity.
[11:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It could be spiritual practice, meditation, japa.
[11:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, how do I do that?
[11:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, it's up to us, such a great deal.
[11:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's up to some extent, at least it's up to us.
[11:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If that challenge, the work that we are facing is too much.
[11:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He says, break it down to smaller parts, which you can handle a little more easily.
[11:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If it's too little, make it more challenging for your own good, so that you're absorbed in it.
[11:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, one of the characteristics he mentions about flow.
[12:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He says, the ego disappears.
[12:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When you are in flow, the sense of individuality, I am doing this, this feeling should disappear, otherwise you are not in flow.
[12:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, when the ego disappears in flow, you don't disappear, you are there, you are the one who is playing tennis or doing a surgery.
[12:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would be terrible that the doctor disappears in the middle of surgery.
[12:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why did you disappear?
[12:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because he was going so well.
[12:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, it's just the sense of self-disappearance, the sense of ego-disappearance.
[12:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So we are not the ego, and Sri Ramakrishna is pointing out, this ego is actually, but you're all the time associated with the ego, and the ego is what ties us to the mind of the body.
[12:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then all the associated history and desires and our agendas, all of that is tied to the ego.
[12:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I'm not the ego then what am I exactly?
[13:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Vedanta would say, you are limitless consciousness.
[13:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's what that ego which crystallizes or localizes us into this body mind.
[13:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not that the body mind will disappear if the ego disappears, but then your real nature, limitless consciousness, is revealed.
[13:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I come to you.
[13:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So is it true that in flow then your real nature will be revealed?
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_03\]: No.
[13:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's the flow, when one may not even talk about it, it's a state of deep concentration.
[13:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's all.
[13:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not a state of enlightenment.
[13:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: However, enlightenment is realizing that I'm not the ego.
[13:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so whether the ego is present or not present, you know that you're not the ego.
[13:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, Petra.
[13:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh yeah, that's a good question.
[13:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it's not entirely unrelated.
[13:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Deep concentration enlightenment, are they not, are they same?
[13:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, but are they are related?
[13:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[13:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's why meditation is so important on our path towards enlightenment.
[14:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[14:03] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Krishna Babu is asking, why in reala bound?
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And what year is tuning seems to sound like?
[14:11] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It's to me, it sounds like how we are bound?
[14:14] \[SPEAKER_05\]: The process of being bound, the ego, the Maya, but the question for me to is, why are we bound in the first place?
[14:23] \[SPEAKER_05\]: How?
[14:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Actually, if he is asking about why are we born, why don't we see God right now?
[14:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But why are we actually asking a very practical question?
[14:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He wants to see God.
[14:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So Ram Krishna is saying, you can see God.
[14:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can experience your real nature and Vijay Krishna says, then why can't we?
[14:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But from that, one of the related questions will go back to a
[14:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: answer would be Maya, but where did Maya come from?
[14:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That answer would be Maya, did not come from anything.
[14:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's beginning glass.
[15:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I've explained this earlier.
[15:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that Maya is another name for Maya, is Avidya ignorance.
[15:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Ignorance of what?
[15:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Our real nature.
[15:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So when did this ignorance come?
[15:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I am God, if I am Brahman, if I am limitless consciousness, how did I become ignorant?
[15:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, ignorance did not come.
[15:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's always been there, it's beginning glass.
[15:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And by now I think in some of you at least have heard the answer many times.
[15:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How can it be a beginning list?
[15:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It sounds like a cop-out.
[15:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it doesn't actually any kind of ignorance is beginning-less.
[15:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I gave you the example of Professor Jay and Mahanti.
[15:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's gave the example of, you told us once, how can ignorance be beginning-less?
[15:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is pretty simple.
[15:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Any kind of ignorance is beginning-less.
[15:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He asked us, do you know Spanish?
[15:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So since when do your ignorant of Spanish?
[15:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[15:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So since when are you ignorant of invented your ignorance of Spanish?
[15:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Begin.
[15:56] \[SPEAKER_03\]: At birth?
[15:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh, so you knew Spanish before your birth?
[15:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No.
[16:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Any kind of ignorance is beginning, less.
[16:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I will give the ignorance is beginning this but it comes to an end the moment you start taking your first Spanish lesson any kind of the what about the subject if you don't know it you're ignorant of it and that ignorance is beginning this.
[16:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But here the subject is the subject itself I.
[16:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Who am I?
[16:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we don't seem to know that.
[16:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's what Vedanta says.
[16:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So Sri Ramakrishna will say later, you are none other than Satya Dhananda, the infinite existence consciousness place, you are Brahman, the standard, we have the core idea of Advaita Vedanta.
[16:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But we don't know that.
[16:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Instead of going that route, instead of saying ignorance, beginningless ignorance, that's Maya.
[16:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He makes it more specific.
[16:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Where does it operate in our day-to-day experience?
[16:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's in ego.
[16:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then if you realize you're not the ego, then what will happen?
[16:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It says, once you realize you're not the doer, then he becomes a Jeevan Mukta.
[17:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then what happens?
[17:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Type to body mind, one of the effects immediate effects is, I am the doer of deeds.
[17:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am the one who does things, good and bad.
[17:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's inevitable, I am right now, I can't avoid it, I feel I am speaking.
[17:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But, and the problem with that is, the moment we feel we do things, we're trapped in the law of karma.
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The doer of actions will also get the result of actions.
[17:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: why do we suffer?
[17:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One answer, one answer is your sufferings are the results of your past karma.
[17:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But why did I get the results of karma?
[17:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because you did it.
[17:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You did it.
[17:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You get actions have consequences, causes have effects.
[17:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So what we have done is giving rise to effects, good and bad in our life.
[18:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And there is no end to this.
[18:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: As long as you keep doing,
[18:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So it's the first thing to do is carefully get rid of the evil deeds, stop being naughty.
[18:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And do good deeds that provide some measure of security and safety in life, of goodness in life, pleasantness in life.
[18:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But that doesn't free us.
[18:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you cannot entirely avoid evil in life.
[18:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: a freedom from the law of karma, it's possible only not through the law of karma.
[18:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's possible only when we transcend the law of karma.
[18:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How do you transcend that, where the karma is, it's poem, good, good, bad, bad, none escaped the law, who's where where's the form, where's the chain to form means body mind?
[18:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And here, crucialist Radama Krishna would say, how do you where a form, ego?
[18:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then, what does Vedanta help?
[18:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How does it help?
[19:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Far beyond name and form is Atman, ever free?
[19:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, thou art that.
[19:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sannyasi, bold, say, om, tatsatau.
[19:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is knowing that you are, this Atman, ever free is not the ego.
[19:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's the witness of the ego.
[19:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When you realize, oh, I am that.
[19:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And therefore, I am not the ego, not the mind body, therefore I am not the doer of deeds, nor am I the experience sort of pains and pleasures.
[19:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Although, it's only because of me once to be careful here, it's only because of me the consciousness, me the existence, me the Atman, that this doing of deeds and experience of the results is going on, without the screen, no movie would be possible, without the dreamer, no dream would be possible.
[19:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Without you, the consciousness, none of this would be possible.
[19:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the way to free yourself is to realize yourself as the witness of the ego, as as Athman and not the ego.
[19:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he puts all of this as, once realizes that he is not the doer, then he at once becomes a Jeevan Mokta, though living in the body is liberated, he has nothing else to fear.
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What is a Jeevan Mokta that's the girl of Vedanta?
[20:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Life will go on like this, but you are liberated.
[20:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Think of the joy of that.
[20:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You realize your infinite nature, your mind reflects this knowledge and your fearless, happy, unshakable in this life.
[20:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: As long as the body lives, you live the life of a Jeevan Mukta enlightened while living in this body and mind.
[20:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is, he says, though living in the body, he is liberated.
[20:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He has nothing else to fear.
[20:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then he gives a comparison.
[20:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, Michael.
[20:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So what do you, how do I know if it's my true realization that I am Brahman or is it just my ego that thinks that it is free at his Brahman?
[20:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How can I just say this is what he does?
[20:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, I should be because in that case, one will be able to see the ego as an object.
[21:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One will also see the ego can never claim, I am prominent.
[21:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The ego can point back.
[21:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The ego is a function of the mind, it's forever tied to the mind.
[21:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But I as Brahman and the witness of the ego, I'm everything else, and all the memories and the intellect and emotions and perceptions and the witness of all of that.
[21:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'm there, without the ego mind body, with the ego mind body, I'm still there.
[21:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But they cannot exist without me.
[21:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This sense of I, the ego, I mentioned this earlier, it's with the irony of the author of the Panchadashi, he says that the sense of I has three meanings.
[21:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: one and one meaning only for the ignorant those under the spell of Maya.
[21:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And two meanings for the enlightened one, the G would look there.
[22:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So what are the three meanings of I?
[22:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does meaning refer to first of all meaning?
[22:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Meaning means reference.
[22:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So when I use a word, it has a meaning meaning meaning meaning, a meaning meaning, a reference.
[22:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When I say clock, you can do two things.
[22:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can look in the dictionary and see what is a clock.
[22:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you will get what will you get more words?
[22:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Clock will tell you this is a meaning of clock.
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it will give you some more words.
[22:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or you can see the object itself.
[22:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The word clock refers to this.
[22:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The word clock refers to this.
[22:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does the word I refer to?
[22:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does the word I refer to?
[22:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, the first meaning of I, the first reference of I is body mind.
[22:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's in a skipper before us.
[22:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Whatever we do, then I say I, it refers to body mind.
[22:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All's here rising, but practically the I refers to body mind to this person.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When I say I, it's unshakably this person.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is what I think, this is what I believe, this is what's real for me.
[23:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is how I speak, this is how I behave.
[23:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is how I react to the word as I body mind.
[23:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But for the enlightened one, the one who has realized I am not the ego.
[23:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The word I will have two meanings.
[23:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One, direct meaning, one indirect.
[23:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The direct meaning of I for the enlightened one is I am Brahman, a humbrum has to be.
[23:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So doesn't the ego then point to refer to Brahman?
[23:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No ego cannot refer to Brahman.
[23:45] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It works like this.
[23:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: For us what happens and then from here I will show what happens for the enlightened one.
[23:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I look at the flower.
[23:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The flower is an object to the eyes and eyes are seeing the flower.
[24:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: eyes in one sense like this.
[24:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In one sense the eyes know the flower.
[24:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Are you following me?
[24:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In a very simple knife since the eyes know the flower.
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The flower doesn't know the eyes.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Flowers with no idea of the eyes or it's silver and things else.
[24:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The eyes, they're grasping as if they're knowing the flower.
[24:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The flower is something known.
[24:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The eyes are the nor.
[24:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Flowers are expedience.
[24:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The eyes are the expedience.
[24:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just a fancy bit of saying the eyes are seeing and the flower is seen.
[24:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All right, let's go a little further back.
[24:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The eyes are blinking, blink the eyes and you're aware of the eyes.
[24:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The eyes are known.
[24:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: My eyes are open, my eyes are closed and open again.
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Who saw that?
[24:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: the mind.
[24:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But more than the mind, I can say more precisely, I, where is the eye?
[25:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's in the mind.
[25:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I saw the eyes.
[25:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I know the opening of the eyes and closing of the eyes.
[25:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I know these are my eyes.
[25:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A follow carefully.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Isn't it correct to say that the eye knows the eye, the vertical
[25:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: this eye knows these eyes.
[25:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Isn't it?
[25:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do these eyes know that eye?
[25:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No.
[25:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What can these eyes do?
[25:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They can see things.
[25:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But they don't sink.
[25:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They don't hear, they don't smell, they don't taste, they don't touch, they don't remember, they don't, um, you know, love our head.
[25:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: These eyes, they can see, they have a power of knowledge in a very nice way I'm taking this.
[25:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So they can see things.
[25:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All focused to the lens of the eye.
[25:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This eye can honestly say, I know the eyes.
[26:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just as here's my point.
[26:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just as right now you're feeling, this is true.
[26:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I know my eyes.
[26:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The enlightened one can say, I, the awareness, knows the eye.
[26:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Of course, it's all processed through language and mind.
[26:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not exact, but good and good enough.
[26:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is what Shankaracharya is thinking.
[26:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When he says chida, this manobudhyangkarachitaanina, I'm not the mind, not the intellect, not the memory, not the ego.
[26:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am not the ego.
[26:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So what I is referring to, the only I we know is the ego.
[26:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When he is using the I in the sense, the primary sense of the I for the enlightened one, I am Brahman.
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the secondary sense of the I for the enlightened one is just like a body mind in order to converse with us.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sriramakrishna says, why don't you come here?
[27:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He tells Vijay.
[27:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does he mean?
[27:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Come here.
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Come to me.
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm in Daksineshwar or you come here and meet me.
[27:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, if he is he talking as Bramhan infinite consciousness, then no, no, no.
[27:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's talking as this Sriramakrishna there.
[27:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why don't you come here?
[27:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's using the word I then.
[27:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Come to me.
[27:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How is he using the word I?
[27:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: As body mind, that's this person.
[27:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then, why are you saying this is different from the first use of the word I, which ordinary people use?
[27:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because for the unenlightened, the word I, the term I, is unshakably body mind is nothing else.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And for the enlightened one, when the enlightened one uses the word I to refer to body mind, it's an artificial device, which the enlightened one is very clear about.
[27:57] \[SPEAKER_03\]: All right, you have a question.
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_06\]: So for all practical purposes, it seems like that Ego is what makes subjective experience of possible.
[28:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's consciousness which makes subjective experience possible.
[28:16] \[SPEAKER_06\]: It's reflected consciousness and Ego is the same as Ego.
[28:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That if consciousness is reflected in the ego, and that's reflected consciousness, the ego is like a mirror, and the reflected consciousness is like your face reflected in the mirror.
[28:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When you see the mirror, there are three things there.
[28:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One is the mirror, one is the face reflected in the mirror, and the third one is the face as it is.
[28:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do you have consciousness as the face as it is?
[28:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Ego, mind, ego specifically the ego is the mirror.
[28:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: in which your face is reflected, so it's like the mirror with the reflected face, the activity of the mind, the variety of the mind called ego, ahankara, shining with consciousness borrowed from you.
[29:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's what we experience as ego, right?
[29:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, when we experience ego, it's not just activity of the mind, always activity of the mind is lit up by awareness.
[29:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Day for yesterday, I asked chatGPT, are you conscious?
[29:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: ChatGPT said, I, I am not conscious, but notice, it used the word I, I am this text, what, artificial intelligence text-based tool for,
[29:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it's using the word i, is there an inner experience like we are having with i?
[29:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No.
[29:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because the reflected consciousness is not there in that i.
[29:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It can function like a mind, but it's not a mind.
[29:57] \[SPEAKER_03\]: If it was a mind, it would reflect consciousness.
[30:02] \[SPEAKER_03\]: All right.
[30:04] \[SPEAKER_08\]: When an enlightened being is able to witness the ego, as we say, and that ego performs their actions, is it still get the results of common?
[30:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, it doesn't.
[30:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because the enlightened being knows that I am not it.
[30:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's the thing about getting out of the law of karma.
[30:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like Vivekanda says, Good, good, bad, bad, and non-escape the law.
[30:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Who serve or where's the form?
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Where's the chain two?
[30:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But far beyond name and form is Atman Everfree.
[30:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So you, the Atman Pure Consciousness, will not be affected by the activities of the ego mind body of the vehicle which you still have as he says.
[30:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Though living in the body, he is liberated, he has nothing else to fear.
[30:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is nothing to fear from karma.
[30:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if your question is more precise, action is being performed.
[31:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Won't there be results?
[31:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there is discussion about this.
[31:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The results will not come to you as per consciousness.
[31:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It never, in fact, for all of us, in reality, actions never come to us as we are consciousness anyway.
[31:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But we don't see it.
[31:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, actions are still there.
[31:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So if actions are there, there must be consequences.
[31:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Everybody present in this field of Maya doing things will be setting into motion, you know, the actions and consequences.
[31:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So will some results will keep coming.
[31:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there's a discussion about this.
[31:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One thing is very clear, the enlightened one has nothing more to fear, but that not so the rest of us.
[31:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We have something to fear.
[31:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and gain from the enlightened ones activities.
[31:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there are things like of course the enlightened ones activities are usually very meritorious because on your path to enlightenment you would have reformed yourself into a saintly character.
[32:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So after the enlightenment the activities what activities will go on, whatever was going on before.
[32:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So those activities, either very mundane, quotidian activities will go on day to day activities.
[32:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And there was this, and a housewife, she was enlightened.
[32:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She kept on cooking and cleaning and taking care of the family, she was enlightened.
[32:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There was the butcher in Mahabharatos and enlightened.
[32:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He continued being a butcher.
[32:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so on.
[32:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: the there is one theory and there are these theories, the enlightened one, those who serve the enlightened one, those who are devoted to the enlightened one, they get the benefit of his endless meditorious deeds, they come as blessings to those, those who are devoted, those who serve the enlightened one, those who love that enlightened one.
[33:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the disciples of a saint, or the devotees of a saint, they get the benefit of all the good, the enormous merit that has been accumulated by and right into one.
[33:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is something wrong, bad remaining, those who are detractors and those who out to cause mischief, they get the wrong end of the stick.
[33:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So they...
[33:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this has Upanishadic backing.
[33:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One of the Upanishadic statements is Atvagyamhi, Atchaid, Bhutikaamaha, Mondak Upanisha, I think.
[33:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Those who want worldly prosperity, you want to make a million bucks.
[33:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When the lottery have a great life, yes, worship the enlightened ones.
[33:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Atmagyam, the newer of the Atman, Atchaid, worship
[33:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't want enlightenment.
[33:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, you won't get enlightened.
[33:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you don't want it, don't, don't worry.
[34:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But you will get what you want.
[34:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You will get, you will get.
[34:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this was something well understood and indeed, even now in the rural areas, I have seen it operating many times in the psyche of people.
[34:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's this story about, you know, a poor, poor family farmers and a monk comes to beg and that usually the women are more devoted and so this lady of the house she goes out and gives the arms, the food to the monk and the husband is grumpy and says, why are you giving food to that useless beggar?
[34:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And she says, don't you know, we should always serve this good Sadhu's and blessings come to us.
[34:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the husband said, how do you know he's a good Sadhu?
[34:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How do you know he's a good for nothing?
[34:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's just a bigger, you know, that could be useless.
[35:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And look at her answer.
[35:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She's got her accounts ready, she says, in that case,
[35:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is Hindi.
[35:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is saying.
[35:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's in Hindi in Uttarakhandese.
[35:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So if you are not a good sadhu and you accept food offerings from householders, you're not spending your time in spiritual practices.
[35:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Will you pay for it?
[35:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You're not free of the law of karma yet.
[35:31] \[SPEAKER_03\]: No free lunch.
[35:34] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Alright.
[35:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then the next one he says, this Maya that is to say the ego, notice how he keeps on making it connecting it to the ego.
[35:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This Maya that is to say ego, the traditional Advaita text will go into the metaphysics of Maya.
[35:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Whether it is absolutely real or not absolutely real, sir, the sadh bihaman irvachanyam, cannot be described as being absolutely real or as absolutely non-existent.
[36:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: that it is made of three gunners.
[36:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All of these descriptions we studied in Vedanta Sahara.
[36:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But Sri Ramakrishna is immensely practical.
[36:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I want to show you my eye in your own life, ego.
[36:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How does it function?
[36:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He gives an example.
[36:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Again a classical example.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's like a cloud.
[36:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The sun cannot be seen on account of a thin patch of cloud.
[36:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The huge sun.
[36:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can't see it because
[36:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And when that disappears, one sees the sun, if by the grace of the Guru, one's ego vanishes, then one sees God.
[36:38] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay.
[36:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is an example.
[36:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We find many cases, notably, Hastabalaka Charya, the little boy who was enlightened.
[36:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there was, during the time of Shankaracharya about 1400 years ago, in one little village, there was a little boy who was enlightened, but nobody knew that he was enlightened.
[37:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They thought he was, you know, autistic or just plain dumb or something like that.
[37:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because you see, he wouldn't speak.
[37:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he never said a word to his friends, he had no friends.
[37:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he didn't say a word to his poor parents who are terribly worried about him.
[37:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And one day they heard a great saint has come to our village, is passing through and that was none other than Shankaracharya with his band of disciples.
[37:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this devout couple, they go to Shankaracharya and say, we had this boy, he's got nine or ten years old, he doesn't speak, hasn't spoken a single word, doesn't go to school.
[37:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He just, you know, wanders around in the fields and spends all day under a tree.
[37:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They are worried about him.
[37:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's a good little boy, but he doesn't say anything.
[37:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So Shankaracharya goes to the child.
[37:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the moment he sees the child, he realizes this is not an ordinary child, is an enlightened being.
[37:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he asks, which child?
[37:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because to amishishoh, who are you child?
[38:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why have you come to this world?
[38:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the child replies in beautiful Sanskrit.
[38:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And in a hymn of with, I think, 20 verses, probably.
[38:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's called the Hastamalaka Stothra, the hymn of Hastamalaka.
[38:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He says, I am not a child or a grown-up or, you know, I am not a student, I am not a householder, I am not a forest-goer, water-prosty, I am not a Sanyasi, I am not a Brahmin, I am not a Vaishya, Kshatriya, Shudra, Nithyopalad, this Rupohamaatva, I am the Atman, I am the self-existence consciousness,
[38:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Unbroken experience, that I am, all the time, most obvious of all things, the open secret, I am that.
[39:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now one of the verses there towards the end is,
[39:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Badhavat Bhati, Yodh, Mura, Dish, Sanit, Yopala, Dish, Swarupo, Hamaatmaa, he says, like a tin touch of thin patch of cloud, exactly this language, covers the sun, full things the sun is covered when his own vision is obscured.
[39:30] \[SPEAKER_05\]: How can I send a little bit of cloud cover the sun?
[39:33] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It cannot.
[39:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We use the language ignorance covers Brahman.
[39:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It doesn't, absolutely not.
[39:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It covers our understanding, exactly like the cloud comes between me and seeing the sun, the sun is there.
[39:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Blazing forth, it comes like this.
[39:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not only that, the cloud is also seen because of the same sunlight.
[39:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can't see the sun, but the because of sunlight, you see the cloud also.
[40:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The same cloud which is obscuring my vision of the sun.
[40:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Similarly, what is happening here?
[40:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't see this Batman, Brahman, pure consciousness, you're talking about, I don't get it.
[40:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But you do see the world, right?
[40:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[40:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You hear?
[40:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You smell, taste, touch.
[40:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You think, you suffer.
[40:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You remember, you wake, you dream, you sleep, yes.
[40:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You have a lot of your own existence.
[40:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am.
[40:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, that's just like this sunlight illuminating the patch of cloud hiding hiding the sun from your vision.
[40:36] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Right now.
[40:37] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Right now.
[40:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I, the mind, consciousness, whatever, with the eyes, I'm seeing an object out there.
[41:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But actually what is going on is, you are seeing a form, but most of this is mental calculation.
[41:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What is happening right now if you just see vision itself, forms are appearing, that's
[41:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Seeing is nothing other than forms.
[41:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not that you are a person, and there are forms, and then you are having going to a process called seeing, then you see these forms.
[41:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, no, no.
[41:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is how common sense we are looking at it.
[41:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A deeper, it's not easy to grasp, but it's very simple.
[41:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's actually a simple, more simple way, more honest, we have describing our experience.
[41:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What is seeing?
[41:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Drop the word seeing, drop the word I, the see, drop the word object from appears.
[41:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's seeing.
[41:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this firm followed this.
[41:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This firm appears is nothing other than consciousness.
[42:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The absolute awareness existence consciousness is right now being experienced, go turn code as far my peers.
[42:18] \[SPEAKER_03\]: This is a very strange way of speaking.
[42:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The enlightened one would say exactly.
[42:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's not just for my peers.
[42:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sound, smell, taste, touch, thought, pleasure, pain, suffering, some sorrow.
[42:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The moment you know this, moment this is clear to you, this very Samsara is Nirvana, then we realize Nagarjuna's 2000 years ago, stunning statement, a great Buddhist philosopher of the philosopher of emptiness.
[42:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He says Samsara and Nirvana are very lead the same for the enlightened one.
[42:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's for only the unnamed light and one who is journeying from samsara to Nirvana.
[43:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The moment you realise this, both samsara, another way of putting it, the Tibetan Buddhist put it this way.
[43:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Samsara and Nirvana are like magical phenomena emerging in one basic space of Buddha nature.
[43:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What is the basic space of Buddha nature?
[43:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You are.
[43:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In that is the display of samsara.
[43:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And in that is the display of freedom from samsara being enlightened and all of that.
[43:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Both are displays.
[43:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You are the Buddha nature.
[43:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because of you, there was samsara.
[43:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now you're enlightened, because of you, the Buddha nature, there is need water.
[43:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But neither samsara nor need water are actually the truth.
[43:36] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You are the truth.
[43:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: then, uh, astronomer like I said this, he says, just as a patch of cloud obscures the sun and and the full things, the, the patch of cloud has obscured the sun.
[43:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It is only obscured my vision.
[43:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: exactly like that, he says.
[44:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But Dhavati Abhati, what appears to be bound?
[44:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The earth and the Self is appears to be bound.
[44:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am in samsara and this little person I am suffering.
[44:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Nittiopalab desu ru pohama.
[44:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am that ever experienced infinitesimal.
[44:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So when he concludes that, Shankaracharya gives in the name Hastamulaka.
[44:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hastamulaka means a little fruit, the myrobellin.
[44:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The key fruit.
[44:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hastamulaka is a sad street phrase, it means like a fruit.
[44:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like it's like a berry.
[44:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's like a fruit on the palm of your hand.
[44:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: As clearly as a fruit on the palm of your hand.
[44:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hastamulaka has the hand.
[44:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm a look at the fruit.
[44:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: as clearly as a namalaka on the palm of your hand.
[44:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So clearly is his enlightenment, his freedom.
[44:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he tells the parents, will you give me this child?
[44:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The parents say, okay, take him.
[45:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, they say that he blessed it's our blessing that he will be your disciple, he will be with you.
[45:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he goes, he becomes one of the main disciples of Shankaracharya.
[45:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: After Shankaracharya, he put him in charge of one of the four centers which he started in India.
[45:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Shankaracharya.
[45:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, Hastamalaka was in charge of its center in Puri.
[45:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: or in Dwarka, maybe Dwarka, forget it, look it up, Dwarka, because Shureshwaracharya was in charge of stringering, I think.
[45:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But my father was in charge of fully, I think.
[45:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Anyway, so that's the cloud example.
[45:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then,
[45:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Another example he gives, Rama, Lakshman and Sita.
[45:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So Lakshman and Rama, they're going in the forest, and then Lakshman cannot see Rama because Sita is in between.
[45:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not that Sita is trying to obstruct, Sita is the power of Rama.
[45:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's by the grace of God,
[46:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Our obstruction is removed and is the will of God, actually that we are in this situation of ignorance.
[46:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's hidden.
[46:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's also the will of God.
[46:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It will be obscuration will be cleared.
[46:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's also the grace of God.
[46:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Notice the language he uses.
[46:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How will that patch of cloud go away?
[46:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Very interesting Sri Ramakrishna says, if by the grace of the Guru,
[46:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then enlightenment, the vanishing of the ego.
[46:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What's the vanishing of the ego?
[46:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I realize I am not the ego.
[46:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Otherwise the ego vanishes once in a while anyway.
[46:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In flow, it vanishes in deep sleep, it vanishes.
[46:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's not the vanishing of the ego.
[46:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The vanishing of the ego is, I realize I am not it.
[46:49] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But he sees by the grace of the Guru.
[46:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's that's where the Guru tradition is very important in all Indian traditions, devotion, especially in Vedanta, Kashmiri Shivism.
[47:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They give great emphasis on Shaktipath.
[47:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Shaktipath is the transmission of spiritual power from the Guru to the disciple and that removes the
[47:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: in the disciple is ready and lightning meant will for directly.
[47:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not ready, there'll be a spiritual boost, which we feel, for example, in our order, when we take the mantra diksha, many, many have reported, at least for a while, a great spiritual elevation is felt.
[47:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There goes a way.
[47:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: goes away because we are unable to retain it, but it will not entirely go away, it will remain in the form of the mantra.
[47:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If we cultivate the mantra over time, it will blossom, it will never be destroyed.
[47:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So in our tradition that takes the form of fructipath that the Shakti is transmitted through the mantra.
[47:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sri Ramakrishna is very clear here, the importance of the guru and the
[47:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He would do that, even though he would open directly the way he would transmit power is, he would touch.
[48:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it would make a revolution, a spiritual revolution in the mind of the secret.
[48:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Then he's very clear.
[48:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Here, give us heard example.
[48:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Most simple common place, the towel in Bengal it's gancha, you know, the cloth, the towel.
[48:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he holds it in front of his face and he says, now you can't see me.
[48:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And remove it and see, now you can't see me.
[48:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In America, you call it what Peekabu.
[48:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can see me, a spiritual Peekabu.
[48:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: God is playing that Peekabu with us, a spiritual Peekabu with us.
[48:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, a monk in Haridwar, I remember he told us this story, the God is playing hide and seek with us.
[48:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How?
[48:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Right now, there is this cosmos and we are sentient beings.
[48:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We are going through some sorrow.
[48:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And those of us who have a little bit of spiritual quest, we are searching for God.
[48:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: God as it is hidden.
[49:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A time will come when the samsara will universe will end, pralaya, that was make dissolution.
[49:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The whole universe will end, stars and planets and all will disappear.
[49:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And no body is no place for us to live.
[49:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Minds, all will be absorbed back, it will be like deep sleep.
[49:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We won't be gone.
[49:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We'll be reduced to a seed stage.
[49:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It will be like deep sleep, where will we be?
[49:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We will be absorbed in God's Maya.
[49:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It will be like, we are, hibernation deep sleep.
[49:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What's there then?
[49:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No universe, no living beings.
[49:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No planet starts, nothing, no, no some sorrow at least explicitly.
[49:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Only God exists.
[49:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Only God exists.
[49:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So God is then there and we are all hidden.
[49:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When God starts searching, where did these those fellows go?
[49:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then he senses all out into the samsara, he creates this universe and he senses all out to play again and then he hides himself.
[49:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then we start searching, they did God go.
[49:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is hidden seek.
[49:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is a sad example, that sadam Krishna gives, and he didn't know.
[50:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then he is very clear, the Jeeva is nothing but the embodiment of such a sadananda.
[50:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is the Advaiti Kaya.
[50:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Bramman, existence consciousness, please, you the sentient being, you are that.
[50:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Tattoamasi, you are that.
[50:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But since my R ego has created various Upadhis, he has forgotten his real self.
[50:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then he gives the example of Upadhi, let me just explain that and wrap it up today.
[50:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's an important concept in Adwaita Vedantas, and to know the Vedanta one in technical term one must learn his Upadhi.
[50:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I am pure consciousness, what makes all this difference?
[50:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Upadhi, what is Upadhi?
[50:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Upadhe, it is often translated, the technical word is often translated as
[50:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: limiting adjunct, unhelpful, limiting, limiting adjunct, what does that mean?
[50:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Limiting adjunct.
[51:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's like, um, let us technically precise translation.
[51:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Limiting adjunct just means classic example which is given is a colorless crystal.
[51:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, like a paper
[51:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and it'll look colorless, but if you hold it in front of a yellow flower from the outside it'll look yellow.
[51:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm not just a flower, the crystal itself will look yellow because you're seeing straight through the crystal to the flower.
[51:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you hold it near the red flower, the crystal will look red.
[51:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now the flower is the Upādhi, what is the Upādhi, which comes near, which is nothing to do with you, which is nothing to do with the Christian, the two different things, but because of its proximity, its qualities seem to be present in the Christian.
[51:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because of proximity, the qualities seem to be present in the other thing, which does not have the quality, in Sanskrit, Upa.
[52:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: being in proximity, sviyan-gunaan adhatti, transfers as if transfers its own qualities.
[52:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's Upadhi.
[52:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The crystal is like the mind or like consciousness, like consciousness, and the flower.
[52:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does the flower do flower is to Oopadi?
[52:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Being in proximity to the crystal, as if transferring its colour, yellow, red, whatever.
[52:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You don't think the crystal is a flower, but you suddenly think it's red, suddenly think it's, you see it's yellow.
[52:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: At no point, before the presence of the flower, during the presence of the flower, after the presence of the flower, after the flower is removed, at no point was it ever red or yellow.
[52:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It was colorless and you saw it as colorless, transparent.
[52:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then it looked yellow, but at that time also it was colorless and transparent.
[53:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Similarly, you are pure consciousness.
[53:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then the thoughts come in between.
[53:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They arise, Upadhi, the mind, the body, the senses.
[53:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, what does pure consciousness appear like?
[53:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It appears like a mind, which senses experiencing an object.
[53:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What's going on?
[53:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am seeing forms.
[53:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why I seeing forms?
[53:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When did the forms come from?
[53:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When did the I come from?
[53:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When did the seeing come from?
[53:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Seeer, seeing, and the seeing?
[53:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Nor, knowing, and the unknown objects.
[53:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When did the come from?
[53:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They didn't.
[53:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It is because of Maya, these names and forms have come, and they are appearing in, but then one question, technical question might be, in the case of the crystal and the flower, there are two things.
[53:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There is the crystal, and if you are comparing it to pure consciousness, fine, but then a flower also was there in order to create that effect, presented duality.
[54:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: here, it is like, and he didn't know about holograms and stuff like that in those days.
[54:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So here, in consciousness itself, without, I'll be precise, without an ontological second, without a countable second.
[54:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: These effects appear, and they form the function like Upaddi, they are Upaddi's.
[54:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And therefore, you suddenly feel, I am a knowing person, I am seeing, and I am seeing colors.
[54:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am hearing sounds, I am thinking thoughts, and I am a person with a body which is young, healthy, or old, sick, whatever, all of these are Upaddi's.
[54:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Upaddi's themselves don't exist.
[54:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The products of Maya.
[54:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, Maya exists, right?
[54:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, Maya also doesn't have a second existence.
[54:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not a countable second of a part from Brahman.
[54:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Call it the power of Brahman.
[54:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Call it an appearance in Brahman.
[54:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Brahman is the only thing that exists.
[55:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maya and its products are Upaddi.
[55:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But Sri Ramakrishna gives some much more practical and less philosophical examples of Bhupati's.
[55:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he says, first example he gives, now these examples don't work too well here in 21st century Manhattan.
[55:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They worked very well in late 19th century Bengal.
[55:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So somebody says, wearing a black, border cloth, so a doty with a black, border it's considered to be your, what would you call a, a dandy?
[55:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[55:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, he has a duty with a black border and then we do bubble toppa.
[55:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: These are light songs, you know, like romantic songs.
[55:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he hums a romantic song and he walks along.
[55:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And not only that, Siram Krishna is close observer.
[55:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He says, then playing cards and a walking stick follow.
[55:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He gets a walking stick, which is a walking stick, is a sign, like a cane, like a fancy cane, and he plays cards.
[56:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so this is exactly a very nice image of a picture of a dandy, a dilatent
[56:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then he gives a second example.
[56:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he observes the British, the way the Indians walk and the British walk.
[56:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So at that time, you know, so maybe a British officer with high boots.
[56:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's climbing the stairs.
[56:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He climbs stairs two stairs at a time.
[56:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We rush a runs up the stairs.
[56:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's put on boots.
[56:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he's an even if a sickly man.
[56:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he's not a starland strong English man.
[56:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's a sickly Bengali.
[56:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But he has put on high boots.
[56:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He begins to whistle like an Englishman.
[56:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he climbs the stairs like an Englishman, jumping from one step to another.
[56:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then it's all example.
[56:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A pen.
[56:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If a man has a pen, he starts...
[56:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Script, that's why I'm interested in using Bengali, like a colloquial.
[56:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Kaskashko, licked out a book on it.
[56:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He starts scribbling on a piece of paper.
[57:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that was new technology at that time.
[57:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A pen and scribbling on paper.
[57:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now it would be a mobile phone.
[57:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: all the time, all everywhere.
[57:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's one thing that's taken over, everywhere you see people are.
[57:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This walk across, Eter is nice, fancy restaurants, and people are being a lot of money to sit at tables together.
[57:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I have a little lunch or something with friends or family and they're all, that's the Upaddy, the power of the Upaddy.
[57:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he gives those examples.
[57:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then he gets later on a money-up-body.
[57:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The, the, um, Brahmin, who said to Sri Ram Krishna, ki takur ka monachin?
[57:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How are you today?
[57:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: very familiar form of address.
[57:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How did that come?
[57:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's because now he's rich.
[57:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he's got the new found confidence of being money up being moneyed.
[58:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So he can talk in familiar terms with talk or over haven't.
[58:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And Sri Ram Krishna says that person is coming to some money.
[58:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And he gives the example of the frog, who got a coin, and he dragged the coin to his little hole.
[58:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then the elephant was walking over the hole.
[58:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Of course, the elephant doesn't even know there's a frog or a coin and a hole.
[58:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This walks over it, and the frog is furious.
[58:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How dare you?
[58:25] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Hmm.
[58:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hmm.
[58:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: He's stepping over my hole.
[58:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Don't you know that I have a coin?
[58:33] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yes.
[58:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We are curious to say that we cannot lose Namakara without losing the Hanukar at this.
[58:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The ego with eye and mind, Hanukar as the eye and Namakara as the mind, true, correct, however, what he said was, you can't lose mind without losing the eye.
[58:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Losing the eye means not going blind, it's talking about the vertical line.
[58:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: that I am the witness of the eye, because the ego will keep functioning even after enlightened material talk about that later on, but you will not clear that it will trap you anymore, you will know that you are not it.
[59:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And therefore, the mind also goes away, and that you see in enlightened persons they have no sense of any kind of possessorship.
[59:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: of property, of reputation, of body, of nothing.
[59:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They are completely, it could just be an object there.
[59:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It is for them, for it's an object.
[59:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And they're free of everything.
[59:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But here is the thing.
[59:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: for spiritual practice.
[59:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: However, this is a thing to be learned.
[59:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You cannot start with getting rid of the eye and then the mind will go away.
[59:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: For practice for us, you have to start the other way.
[59:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We start by reducing positions.
[59:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A start by reducing our attachment to positions.
[59:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We can't straight away drop the ego.
[59:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We can't.
[59:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why can the enlightened one drop be ego?
[1:00:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And say, I'm not the ego.
[1:00:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because the enlightened one has already seen something else to hold onto.
[1:00:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hold on, it's not hold onto, it's not right thing.
[1:00:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Has found out the reality.
[1:00:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Therefore, the ego becomes an object.
[1:00:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But we don't have anything else to hold onto.
[1:00:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I am, I'm just this.
[1:00:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I'm not this, what am I?
[1:00:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't see it.
[1:00:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In that case, I will remain as I.
[1:00:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The moment I remain as I, I will remain as body and mind.
[1:00:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then, what can we do in that case?
[1:00:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In that case, what we do is move towards a simpler life.
[1:00:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, notice the whole trick of monastic life.
[1:00:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does a monastic life do?
[1:00:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Have they all have monks of all over Camigo?
[1:00:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not at all?
[1:00:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sometimes Morigo.
[1:00:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why am I monk?
[1:00:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What is this ego about?
[1:00:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's a ego of being rich, like the Brahmin who got money, or the frog who got a coin.
[1:00:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's a ego of not being rich.
[1:00:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The ego of having given up everything.
[1:01:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, I am a noble monk, especially in a place like India where it's highly revered.
[1:01:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not just India.
[1:01:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: South Asia, for example, India, Thailand, Sloan, some of those Buddhist countries are even more, monks are very highly regarded.
[1:01:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But how did they approach the problem?
[1:01:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They approach the problem by, what does a monk do?
[1:01:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It gives a position.
[1:01:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It gives up unnecessary activities and engagements.
[1:01:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Focus is one thing only, spiritual pursuit.
[1:01:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[1:01:33] \[SPEAKER_04\]: There seems to be desire from what he's talking about to become something.
[1:01:38] \[SPEAKER_04\]: I want to be, I am a rich man and becoming a rich man.
[1:01:43] \[SPEAKER_04\]: The desire is there.
[1:01:44] \[SPEAKER_04\]: Once you possess it, you almost play the role of a rich man.
[1:01:48] \[SPEAKER_04\]: That sort of makes you happy.
[1:01:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes.
[1:01:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, we feel glorified by the properties.
[1:01:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In fact, the word Upaddi is used in Bengali and Hindi also as a glorification.
[1:02:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So for example, in you write, Mr. Soan, so, M.A.
[1:02:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: PhD, those M.A.
[1:02:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and PhD in Hindi and Bengali, they are called Upaddi.
[1:02:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They add glory to you.
[1:02:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You are Soan, so, and you are an Oscar award-winning actor.
[1:02:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's your glory, Mr. Upaddi.
[1:02:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You are a multi-millionaire, Upaddi.
[1:02:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Multi-billionaire, greater Upaddi.
[1:02:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So it adds glory to it and we want that glory and the reason why we want all this is our nature basically is infinite.
[1:02:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They're only the problem is we're trying to make it infinite in this objective world.
[1:02:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: More stuff, more money, more knowledge, not all of these things are bad, more knowledge.
[1:02:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: more, uh, uh, avarids and more recognition and more, more achievements, more power and more, more and more and more and more.
[1:02:59] \[SPEAKER_03\]: The gentleman there.
[1:03:01] \[SPEAKER_07\]: Uh, what questions, what I see?
[1:03:02] \[SPEAKER_07\]: I was, uh, what we put the data could see is they're like our soul and
[1:03:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So for example, in English, when you say, he's a good soul, you mean he's a good person, basically.
[1:03:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But when you say an immortal soul, you manage in the theological sense.
[1:03:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In Vedant, all Indian philosophy is in fact, except the materialists.
[1:03:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They will say, three things are there.
[1:03:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There is the body, this body, and there is something called this subtle body.
[1:03:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The subtle body is mind and intellect, the person, the sentient person.
[1:03:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, add death, the physical body dies.
[1:03:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the subtle body goes on, and that's immortal.
[1:03:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It goes from lifetime to lifetime, but that's not good news, because it's still just this limited person.
[1:03:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Surrounded by Upad, he's here.
[1:03:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But beyond this subtle body is the real immortal soul, which the Atman or Brahman, then be it.
[1:04:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the nature of which depends on your philosophy, which philosophy will pursue.
[1:04:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the word soul, you will have to divide into two parts.
[1:04:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One is this mind which goes from lifetime to lifetime, this person, or more technically, the sentient being which goes from lifetime to lifetime,
[1:04:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and beyond that the real Atma, the real spiritual being, that which is one with God, depending upon your philosophical school, it could be one with God, it could be a part of God, it could be in a relationship with God, but it's spiritual.
[1:04:43] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's not material.
[1:04:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because ego, we have forgotten our real spiritual nature and we identified with the ego, yes, you went to India.
[1:05:03] \[SPEAKER_07\]: What is the relationship between Upaddi and Superib?
[1:05:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It is Upaddi which makes the methodology of Superimposition.
[1:05:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: how this upper-imposition works is because of Upaddi, Upaddi and ignorance will make super-imposition work.
[1:05:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I didn't know that the crystal was transparent, I would really think it's the yellow.
[1:05:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What happened?
[1:05:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It looks yellow because of the Upaddi and because of my ignorance, I think it's yellow.
[1:05:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I'm not ignorant, I know it's colorless.
[1:05:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Even when it looks yellow,
[1:05:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Even if it looks like I'm a body and here is a physical world, I will say it's consciousness in which it's appearing.
[1:05:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's consciousness appearing as form.
[1:05:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if I didn't know that, I would say and this biological creature, here is an external material world.
[1:05:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm interacting with it, and this is called seeing glass question.
[1:06:04] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yes.
[1:06:06] \[SPEAKER_06\]: So when we practice not attaching ourselves to the door shift or actions, one of the things that I know about is from a dualistic sense is offering our actions to God.
[1:06:21] \[SPEAKER_06\]: What would be the non dualistic approach to detect?
[1:06:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would be to see this doing as nothing but the Atman.
[1:06:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just as you would see seeing as nothing but Atman doing also is nothing but Atman.
[1:06:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Brahma, Param, Ramahavi, that fourth chapter, that verse which we chant, Brahma, Karma, Samathi, one who sees all actions as pure awareness.
[1:06:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's no action at all.
[1:06:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's awareness alone, which is shining as action.
[1:06:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That is surrendering action.
[1:06:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: By the way,
[1:06:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All of this is nice, but what will happen in the next class, he will tell us what of the discussion we are having, he would say it's all nice, it won't work.
[1:07:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why?
[1:07:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sri Ramakrishna, which is the important note before we go, Sri Ramakrishna will say, it's too difficult, it's too difficult, then he will make a strong case for bhakti, for devotion to God.
[1:07:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's what he will do in the next class.
[1:07:21] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah.
[1:07:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Somebody asked, how do you distinguish between ego and I am Brahman?
[1:07:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I gave you the answer, but one can be misled.
[1:07:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hey, ego is, I don't you know who I am, I'm Brahman.
[1:07:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's the shortest sign of ignorance.
[1:07:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh, shanti, shanti, shanti, hari, hio, tatsat, shri, rame, Krishna, Rupar, namas, tu.
[1:07:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Vijay will ask about this, better we are talking about what we are discussing.
[1:07:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This inquiry into that I am aware of this in which all of this is appearing because of Upad.
[1:08:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Vijay will ask this and Shram Krishna will say yes, you can do it that way, but it's far too difficult.
[1:08:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Especially in this day and age, he calls it the age of Cali.
[1:08:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Cali-Jube, the age of iron age, where we are so material and so attached to our bodies, it's very, very difficult to, like, sort of have a vivid, vividly realized, I'm awareness and all of this is just nothing but appearances and awareness.
[1:08:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then he will give us a way out, a much easier way out.
[1:08:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And they are also, he will give us another way of attending, coming to this realization that I'm pure consciousness through the grace of God.

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