# Leap Bridge

An episode of [Rose City Politics](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1247337855), 6 Jan 2024, 59 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/58219030/leap_bridge.mp3

Jon, Frazier and Doug discuss the new vacant property tax in the context of the boarded-up homes on the west end, a story about the irrationality of people progressives disagree with, and one of the greatest instances of turd polishing in Windsor history, plus community benefits. Rose City Politics is brought to you with the kind support of LiUNA Local 625: Building Better Communities. Support the show on Patreon.com/RoseCityPolitics. Read our stuff in Biz X Magazine or online at BixZMagazine.com and RoseCityPolitics.ca.

## Transcript

[0:24] Hey, everyone, welcome to Rose City Politics. It is January sixth,
[0:29] twoenty twenty four. A regular panel includes Doug Startry, Frasier Fathers and myself
[0:36] John Lidkey. Head to patreon dot com slash ros City Politics and you can
[0:40] support us for the first time in twenty twenty four. So nice in both
[0:44] of you to make yourselves available on a day like today on the January sixth.
[0:50] You know it's not easy. Now. The real question, though,
[0:53] is would both of you have been available on January sixth, twenty twenty one.
[0:58] That's my question. Well, you and I were available. We did
[1:02] a show. Okay, all right, all right, you're off, You're
[1:04] off the hook. Yeah, the question where is that is a good question
[1:08] was done on that show. I think he was. I would think though,
[1:12] that Don's not here right now because he did miss out on the original
[1:15] one. This is the first twenty twenty four, the first June January sixth,
[1:21] on a Saturday. Yeah, yeah, so I think you know the
[1:23] weekends here. He probably jumped on the bike and wanted to took the took
[1:26] the bike out of winter storage because it's just such a historic day. Could
[1:30] be, could be Maybe he's putting together a bit of his new Confederacy facts
[1:34] with Don and he went on a little road trip. Start things off.
[1:37] Okay, Cobby, Anyways, all of you are getting an episode of Rosity
[1:41] Politics today, which is crazy because all of our favorite podcasts aren't recording this
[1:44] week at all. They're still putting out their favorite episodes from last year.
[1:48] But it's like we've already heard those. Yeah, we did that a few
[1:51] times. I did. I put together clip shows of RCP and guys.
[1:56] I don't know if anybody ever listened to them, but it takes out full
[2:00] day to put together an RCP clip show. And then when I looked at
[2:02] the download stats after, I think the way we do it now is much
[2:06] better for me. So I think I listened to one of those, and
[2:08] then I've owed to never listen again. Right, this is not useful at
[2:14] all. It's not relevant or topical. Well mostly it was just like Boscario's
[2:20] funniest quips is the reason to listen. Well, maybe I'll go back and
[2:23] take a listen through. Anyways, we're glad that you're all tuning in.
[2:28] We are in print and biz X a new one just dropped, so go
[2:30] read that online everywhere band only somewhere and russbe politics able to broadcast live on
[2:36] tape thanks to the kind support of LEUNI six two five building Better Community as
[2:39] well. Again. Yeah, first episode of the new year, and it's
[2:43] a little bit of a light episode, but we're gonna have some fun with
[2:46] it. You know, when we say it's a light episode, those are
[2:47] usually the ones that do turn into Lifetime two hours. How did that happen?
[2:53] As is tradition, we're not going to go through what the topics are
[2:57] because maybe we get to them, maybe we won't, So let's just start
[2:59] things off. Windsor is closer to a resolution with the Bridge company and the
[3:02] derelict homes, those along Indian Road, particularly that have been boarded up,
[3:07] vacant and vandalized, most again owned by the Canadian Transit Company, which are
[3:13] the owners of the Ambassador Bridge, and those are for future bridge developments,
[3:16] although at this point it's hard to say if anything at all would be happening
[3:22] in that area except for the new exit plaza that they've built. We know
[3:30] there's not going to be a twin span. Those days have long past and
[3:32] now, but there is a by law in place that is preventing the demolition
[3:38] of those homes. Council has however, approved a three percent vacant home tax
[3:44] last November in an effort to encourage homeowners or of vacant properties to either sell
[3:49] or rent out the properties. And there's a list of exemptions including residential units
[3:53] that are under construction, renovation, redevelopment for sale or lease for a period
[3:57] up to a year, and residential units that are vacant up to two years
[4:00] through a hospitalization, long term care, or death. That by law took
[4:03] effect on January the first, and according though to the spokesperson from the Ministry
[4:13] of Finance, of which needs to give approval, they are still looking to
[4:18] consider it once they receive it. Currently, Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton have
[4:23] the authority to implement a vacant home tax. Counselor Mackenzie Kieran Mackenzie is hopeful
[4:27] that Windsor won't need to see it used to see any West End improvements.
[4:33] He feels that they're getting very close on the issue. Well, that'd be
[4:39] good. So there's a lot of stuff to talk about here, but what
[4:43] do we think it means. When Kieran says they're getting very close on the
[4:46] issue. Yeah, that's my first question, because these homes are a part
[4:49] of a much broader bridge plan, right, and so I can only you
[4:56] know, I live two blocks from there, like I live in the West
[4:59] End, and the things I hear in the neighborhood about what's the plan for
[5:02] that is pretty you know, it's these homes are just a pawn on a
[5:08] chessboard type of thing. And I think, you know, I don't know
[5:13] what Council Mcanzie really means by that. I think certainly I've always thought,
[5:17] let's be honest, the Bacon Holmes tax was always a tax for the Ambassador
[5:20] Bridge to try and force some action in the West End. But from what
[5:25] I've heard and what I've sort of heard anecdotally, the biggest hold ups are
[5:31] Bridge still needs to acquire two pieces of land, and pretty much from my
[5:35] understanding, by twenty thirty one, they need to have a new truck inspection
[5:39] plaza in place at the foot of the Ambassador Bridge because CBSA doesn't want trucks
[5:44] going down here on Church Road to their current secondary inspection plaza on Malden Road,
[5:47] and so they have to build a giant new truck inspection plaza in West
[5:53] windsor now most of those houses on Indian Road, some of the other houses
[5:57] on Bloomfield Road and things like that that are owned by the Bridge Company would
[6:00] probably not be a part of that. But what they are a part of,
[6:04] from my understanding, is attempted land swaps because one of the pieces of
[6:08] property is a City of Windsor owned utility hub and pumping station that's behind the
[6:13] McDonald's and getting that piece of land and move and getting access to move all
[6:18] of those utilities is like it's kind of like a little square in the middle
[6:23] of their future plaza that they have to get. And so you know,
[6:27] I've heard all sorts of crazy stuff, like they also want to buy the
[6:30] McDonald's, which is like, I guess, the most profitable McDonald's in Canada
[6:32] or something like that. So it's like they I've heard rumors of like a
[6:38] land swap with the university for like the LaBelle building, the old arts school
[6:42] that's where the McDonald's moves to. The bridge gets the McDonald's site. There's
[6:46] a big land swap with the city for like all the vacant houses for that
[6:48] little square of land or something there. So Counsor McKenzie needs to elaborate,
[6:55] in my opinion, as a resident of West Windsor, what does he mean
[6:57] by resolution? Because if a resolution is a assive truck plaza in my neighborhood
[7:01] and he's celebrating it, then there's a problem with that in my opinion,
[7:05] because that's the resolution the bridge wants. And so what is the resolution that
[7:11] he's talking about or is it just the city's going to make an extra three
[7:13] percent on a bunch of houses in West Windsor that's going to go into the
[7:16] tax roles and this mayor, using strong mayors, using his new budget process,
[7:21] is going to then you know, build buildings or build road somewhere else
[7:25] in the city. I don't know. It's almost like half a story is
[7:28] there, Like if you read that story, it's like half the story is
[7:30] there, and then there should be like another piece of that story almost there.
[7:36] Yeah, Dug's brain just turned off. Yeah it definitely is it definitely
[7:45] is? You know it just it seems to me that three percent is probably
[7:51] not going to be enough to move the Ambassador Bridge, right, like a
[7:56] punitive three percent, sir Atax. What those homes on Indian Road you know,
[8:01] looking at the going rate, what can the possible total number that their
[8:05] obligation to the city is for taxes two hundred grand a year for all of
[8:09] half a million a year. Yeah, it's not going to be like so
[8:13] you have to assume those homes are being assessed at just the land value,
[8:16] which is probably fifty one hundred thousand dollars just for the land. The current
[8:20] mill rate's like one point something, so you're like nineteen hundred fifteen hundred dollars
[8:26] per lot. Maybe you're adding three percent to that, so you're probably looking
[8:30] at four or five grand per lot times all of the lots. I just
[8:33] yeah, I just don't see that as being material. Like the Bridge company
[8:39] has put up with a lot more than a three percent sir tax in order
[8:43] to secure what they think are their best interests. Yeah, it's it's confounding
[8:48] that I guess even a story like this can be put into print, so
[8:52] to speak, without having the crux of it really there, Because I mean,
[8:56] all that Kieran says is that we've been having active discussions for many years.
[9:01] It's like, okay, well, yeah, we're all aware of this.
[9:03] I mean, it doesn't even feel like this is a story at all.
[9:07] Quite frankly, I other than we might end up using the vacant home
[9:11] tax. But he goes on to say, we hope that we won't.
[9:15] But why Yeah, Well, I think that that was what was confusing there,
[9:22] I think, And Counselor Mackenzie, if you're listening and want to correct
[9:26] this, please please feel free to. But I think that that was you
[9:30] know, we hope we don't have to in the same way that when when
[9:33] brutal new enforcement measures are introduced around you know, smoking, drink driving,
[9:41] speeding, we hope we never have to use these to like these punitive measures.
[9:46] Right. So I think that that he was going for some kind of
[9:48] like you know, swaggering, tough guy message. I just don't think it
[9:52] quite like landed. Yeah, and again like just at three percent, it's
[9:58] just they're of course they're going to eat it, like who cares, It's
[10:01] it's nothing for them, it's just a little I'm curious why Counselor Castante wasn't
[10:07] talked to for this story as well, Like I don't know, maybe he
[10:11] was tried. I it was over the holidays, you know, who knows.
[10:13] I'm not sure or he didn't write a press release. Yeah, I'm
[10:16] not sure. Like I'm not sure, but like I think certainly, you
[10:20] know, it's a little weird that it's not his, you know, it's
[10:24] Ward two counsel McKenzie's Ward nine and like I don't, I know, he's
[10:28] had a long history with the file and his time with Brian Massey's office and
[10:31] you know when he was you know, working in Windsor West and that is
[10:35] a major issue for uh, Brian Massey and West Windsor there along with the
[10:39] Gordy how Bridge. But like it just seems a little odd to me that
[10:43] like he's weighing in on this Ward to issue. Well, I think I
[10:48] think the analysis here like we're we're kind of I don't know, we lost
[10:52] our bite over the holidays. We got to give us a guest. We're
[10:56] meandering around the point here, which is that this is a nothing story.
[11:01] Yeah, right, this is a nothing story. It's just a kind of
[11:03] a process continues story, you know. And and the question about why Castante
[11:11] is not quoted is really interesting in that context. I think, Well,
[11:15] it's also why did the story come up? Right, So we were all
[11:18] talking around the bush before the holidays, about who's running for mayor in twenty
[11:22] six. Yeah, well, you know, it's a slow news week,
[11:24] as I think we can attest. I imagine that. You know, if
[11:28] this was a press release that went out from you know, counselor mackenzie,
[11:33] then it was you know, probably a good week that it would get picked
[11:35] up. And you know, it's again a process story, but it's a
[11:39] process story that he got solo airtime on YEP and from there, you know,
[11:46] let the race begin. If it is a press release, why don't
[11:48] we get the press releases from these people? They know who we are,
[11:52] guys, please send us your press release here was on the show, especially
[11:56] McKenzie. You know, I think I think this show still has a legal
[12:00] relationship with Karen McKenzie. We still get emails. Yeah, and the show
[12:05] going yesterday? Wait, is this who you've been banned from? Just the
[12:07] press releases like your baby? Well the place we've congratulations Fraser. It's one
[12:13] of the thing is it's a it's a prize that can be won by many
[12:16] because we're actually banned a lot of places. Yeah, so that's interesting,
[12:20] and and let me let me build on that here, Kieren, you're not
[12:24] Kieren you're a Frasier. Let me build on that Fraser by by pointing out
[12:30] that Kieran is what Kieren's doing if what he's doing is what we think he's
[12:35] doing. But I think that what he's doing is what we think he's doing.
[12:37] This is a great showing, John, come on, let me cook
[12:43] man. It always it doesn't always look we're building up here. When the
[12:46] ingredients go in the pot at first, they don't always look good. And
[12:50] you fucking took me off my train of thought completely. Karen's think you think
[12:54] he's doing. Yeah, Karen's doing what I think you think he's doing.
[12:56] What I'm saying is that Kieran is maintaining the option. It doesn't necessarily mean
[13:01] that he is that he is going to and bound and determined to run for
[13:07] mayor. However, I'll say this, in the last term, nobody did
[13:13] this. Nobody was doing this stuff, and or at least nobody that ended
[13:18] up running for mayor was doing any of this stuff. So so it is
[13:22] a sign that there is interest. It's a sign I think that the the
[13:26] the potential field sees an open seat or the possibility of an open seat.
[13:31] But following on from that, I think the more important piece is that is
[13:35] this a snub of mister Castante or is this the Is this actually the opposite
[13:43] conclusion that we should draw that Castante is not not positioning himself carefully to be
[13:48] in the forefront and get ink every time this is mentioned, Does that mean
[13:52] that he doesn't have those ambitions? Yeah, I don't know. I don't
[13:56] know. Those are like the fun speculats of things that happened on January sixth,
[14:01] projecting out two and a half years from now. The other thing,
[14:03] I guess, just from a media analysis, this could have been not the
[14:09] story, Like there might have been a different story that was being done or
[14:13] a different conversation and then this came up and they were like, oh,
[14:15] let's run with that for a second, and then putting together as a quick
[14:18] piece, shove it out. It's good content, and that's why it's lacking
[14:22] the the hook that I think we're all trying to find. I think that's
[14:24] an important piece of context. Is just like just like where we sat down
[14:30] today and we're like, how are we going to fill an hour when nobody's
[14:31] done anything for two weeks? Well, they don't know that we knew that
[14:35] they would be thinking that, which is why we've decided to do the spinning
[14:39] to get us from here to there. See there, and you thought this
[14:41] would be bad podcasting and now convoluted bullshit is the theme of the show.
[14:45] Keep it going, buddy, Oh do you really want me to? Okay?
[14:50] Well I got nothing now that was the end of it all. Who
[14:52] fell off? Yeah, so I don't know. It's we're pulling at strings
[14:58] here trying to keep this topic going. You got fifteen minutes out of it?
[15:01] Is that? Yeah? That's amazing, Thanks Jar and keep the rolling.
[15:07] Okay, Well, you know what, this one's going to be a
[15:09] lot quicker for sure. No, we'll see This is from our friends at
[15:13] CBC. Opposition to four plexes and Windsor is based on irrational fears, says
[15:20] Dorian Moore, an architect with the Archived Design Studio and Detroit who's also an
[15:24] instructor at the University of Windsor. He says that he understands the concerns counselors
[15:28] have, but he pointed to examples like Ontario Street between Gladstone and Lincoln and
[15:33] shows how multiplexes can be incorporated tastefully. And he says, however, though
[15:39] we do have some pretty bad examples, and the CBC article goes on to
[15:43] show a really, really good bad example of one on Richmond. I believe
[15:48] it's an old convenience store that very clearly still looks like an old convenience store
[15:54] that has just bricked in all of the glass windows. It is hideous,
[15:58] so he's look, I get why people are concerned about it. And then
[16:03] it goes on to talk about how we decided not to do the four plexes
[16:08] to get the housing accelerator funds, saying that you know, three plexes are
[16:15] as of right, and it goes on to talk about the reconsideration request that
[16:21] Counselor Mackenzie has called for counsel to revisit the issue, saying that there was
[16:26] more time to make a decision than originally thought. But Mary Dilkins is staying
[16:30] by his decision, saying that it would be disrespectful to winsor rights to allow
[16:37] four plexes by right. I think one of the top ten quotes that Mary
[16:44] Dilkins is going to end up with throughout his mantic quote machine, don't be
[16:47] so sure of that that's true. He is put a microphone in front of
[16:49] him and he will talk. So this is kind of the same or in
[16:52] a similar vein to the last story we talked about in that I was hoping
[16:56] there'd be another story. Nothing, it would be one story, right,
[17:02] there's nothing new here. This is the Dorian Moore interview that gives you a
[17:07] sort of a superstructure to put all the things that we already know about this
[17:11] file so that it can this story can live for another week. I you
[17:15] know, what else can we say about this? I don't think that aesthetics
[17:18] are the reason for the conflict. And I especially think that when when you
[17:25] are saying the people that disagree with me are ignorant, yes, there you
[17:30] you just like you just failed. You just failed the conversation because there is
[17:36] no persuasion happening there. And I would, I would suggest with the the
[17:41] kindest possible intent, that if you are saying my opponents are ignorant, then
[17:48] perhaps it is you who are ignorant of the interests that drive your opponent or
[17:52] you prefer not to see them, and that is just not how dialogue works.
[17:56] Yeah, I was going right there, right, you know. You
[18:00] know, generally speaking, Nimbi's being irrational is sort of like a water equals
[18:03] wet sort of thing. And if it wasn't the architectural thing, it would
[18:07] be parking, or it'd be they would have to cut down a tree on
[18:11] my street or whatever those things are. Fundamentally like, this does not move
[18:18] the issue the file forward, and it probably poisons the well for any sort
[18:22] of dialogue going forward. And I think that's the more damaging part of this.
[18:26] This story was not a story that actually helped, you know, move
[18:30] the idea forward. And I think also, you know, and maybe we
[18:36] have to add architecture to the list of things that Fraser hates. I don't
[18:40] know, but like you know, I struggle with the idea of you know,
[18:48] it's like, oh, if they were pretty or if it looked good,
[18:52] suddenly these would be acceptable right in the community. And yes, there
[18:56] are some great multiplexes across the city of windsor a lot of them and Walkerville.
[19:00] But let's do a little hypothetical scenario. Building burns down in Walkerville.
[19:04] No one's hurt. But now you have a vacant lot in the center of
[19:07] Old Walkerville and some developer wants to build there a four plex or a three
[19:11] plex. You know, let's even just say a three plex because it's now
[19:14] by right that's allowed by right, not even a four plex. The urban
[19:18] design guidelines in Walkerville to build that would make it cost prohibitive to make those
[19:23] units attainable or affordable, because you have to build it with brick to match
[19:26] the brick houses around. You have to put a you have to match the
[19:30] character the rest of name. Well, that means you have to put a
[19:32] big front porch on that house. And the big front porch is square footage,
[19:36] which is then not technically inside the house Liverpool area, but it counts
[19:40] against the building footprint of the house in some cases, especially if the front
[19:42] porch is like not a little deck in the back, but like a structural
[19:47] you know, one with a roof on it and pillars and like a nice
[19:49] graded front step in a front yard and things like that. You know,
[19:53] the cost of that is bored by then a developer who's going to pass it
[19:56] on to whoever is renting those spaces. And suddenly a high rent unit going
[20:00] into walker Now I'm sure someone would rent that high rent unit in Walkerville,
[20:04] but you know the city is allowed. And again coming from West Windsor there
[20:08] are lots of ugly fourplexes in West Windsor, right, And that's why people
[20:12] are terrified of these things, because the city is allowed under previous terms those
[20:17] things to be dropped down to California Street, Askin Street in you know,
[20:21] Brock Street and Sandwich Town. You know, they're all over West Windsor.
[20:25] And the challenge is now we have to scale this up. And the only
[20:27] way we're gonna get at our housing targets is if we do some of these
[20:30] things. But you know, simply saying that my opponent, the you know,
[20:34] people who are against this are irrational and not actually digging into the reasons
[20:40] for that irrational potential irrationality and the ability to actually tackle and solve some of
[20:45] those problems, like is a major issue in gap in the dialogue in our
[20:52] community. And so because of that, we're now back at square one,
[20:56] where the mayor is not going to bring back for delegation. I doubt reconsideration.
[21:00] I doubt any of his fellow counselors who supported his original motion are going
[21:06] to Councer Mackenzie can call for it, but he voted against, so he
[21:08] can't. I don't know how Counselor Castante's vote would count because he wasn't present.
[21:14] I assume he can't. But you know, we're where we were in
[21:18] square one, and all that's happened is there's been a round of dialogue.
[21:22] You just have to go look at like windsor Reddit or south windsor watch Facebook
[21:26] group and you can see how that dialogue has landed. Everybody who cares about
[21:30] the housing issue and Windsor has already solidified and cemented their views on the various
[21:37] politicians. And I don't, you know, I don't think that. I
[21:42] don't think there's a lot more ground to be gained by beating that drum in
[21:49] that quite that way. I think, like honestly though, what you know,
[21:56] and Dorian Moore is not a person who is unknown to this show.
[22:00] He's you know, he's a progressive and Windsor he's made his voice heard on
[22:04] many occasions, used to be on this Planning and Heritage Committee. Right,
[22:07] that's right too, you know, that is a voice that's worth listening to
[22:15] and worth hearing. But I think the real problem here is that any move
[22:22] towards a compromise has to come from Mayor Dilkins. Any move towards moderating and
[22:26] mitigating is going to his stance. The mayor's stance is going to have to
[22:32] come from him, which means it's going to have to come from pressure.
[22:36] And folks, Mayor Dilkins is not going to feel the pressure from Windsor progressives.
[22:44] He's not. He is only going to feel the pressure from the people
[22:48] that he counts as his supporters. So are you making arguments that are going
[22:52] to succeed in that direction? Because until twenty twenty seven, the only person
[22:57] who is going to be able to make any moves to change the picture on
[23:02] housing in Windsor is Drew Dilkins. We have two full years. Well that
[23:07] will be true. And I just don't think that that that, you know,
[23:11] trying to position yourself for twenty six indicates to me that you really think
[23:17] housing is a problem today. You know, if you think it's a crisis,
[23:19] there should be better solutions than scolding, right, So, like the
[23:22] crisis is this, Like I've been tracking the housing crisis on my blog and
[23:26] you know, last year and we're still missing November or December's data. But
[23:30] as of like the end of November, City of Windsors should have should be
[23:34] building about thirteen hundred units a year. We're like in the five hundred unit
[23:40] range for last year still December to come, there'll be probably a couple hundred
[23:42] maybe one hundred or whatever units will be added to that. You're getting thirty
[23:48] forty fifty percent of your provincial and federal targets. Right, So even some
[23:52] of those bonus dollars that people were talking about for you know, getting yourself
[23:55] from forty to seventy million, we're not at that place where like bonus dollars
[23:59] would be flow right now? Right is the idea though? That is the
[24:03] idea though that you would that you would get that eventually, like that that
[24:10] would develop on its own eventially in theory, like I suspect, like the
[24:14] hope would be, you know, targets were set over a ten year span,
[24:18] right, I would suspect the front end is going to be poorer performance
[24:21] in the back end will be better performance. But the question is are you
[24:23] building momentum year over years? Well are you maximizing? And right, are
[24:27] you maximizing in the early days because I think we're counting on Sandwich South to
[24:32] meet those targets, right, yes, and like but like I think in
[24:34] the flip side, and I tweeted about it this week the now new Howard
[24:38] South Bulford so Ford Secondary plan and LaSalle has twenty thousand new people and something
[24:45] like five thousand new units planned and that's going for approval in the end of
[24:48] January. So you know, if Don we're here, he'd be talking about,
[24:52] well, people will just go to the county. Well, people will
[24:53] just go to the county. And so I think, like there is you
[24:59] know, I think there's going back to your point though, Doug, I
[25:03] think, like what you have to do is you have to accept there's going
[25:06] to be some sunk costs here if you're progressive, and you have to put
[25:08] in some work with no like immediate eyes to return around like what is possible,
[25:17] right, Like go find a vacant lot, do some design, like
[25:21] get some students to go do some designs like or whatever, and like show
[25:25] like what could be possible. You know, there needs to be some sort
[25:26] of engagement and commentary in the community that's deeper than just whatever shows up in
[25:32] the media. Because it's a slow newsweek, and like I think, like
[25:36] that's the only way you're going to really start moving needles on this issue is
[25:38] like you know, no one's putting a pole in the field, so there's
[25:41] no data to actually point out like where does housing stand compared to every other
[25:45] issue and winsor essex. Sure there's probably some poles out there, but like
[25:49] they're not public, they're not being shared widely. No one's doing broad engagement
[25:53] right now, and right now you just have the sort of chess pieces being
[25:57] moved around the board, you know, during the holiday break when no one's
[26:02] really paying attention. I was actually gonna suggest something similar, the idea of,
[26:07] you know, release some designs for use, like not just to show,
[26:12] but like here's some architectural blueprints. Here are really nice multiplex four plexus
[26:18] like are available for public use. Our companies designed this, here's what we've
[26:22] done in the past. Here's what would look great on this lot here in
[26:26] South Windsor. You know, like is that acceptable to missus Smith and you
[26:30] know in South Windsor, I don't know, but like it changes the dialogue.
[26:34] And then like media could take design and go show a picture to someone
[26:37] in South Windsor and say, hey, how does this look and here's the
[26:41] price and here's the price. Yeah. So it's weird, right because we
[26:48] have this landscape of zoning regulations and rules that make it very difficult to just
[26:57] buy a piece of property and do whatever you want with And that's you know
[27:03] that there's obviously we don't want we don't want a glue factory next to the
[27:07] kindergarten. So there's there's some level there is some level of although it would
[27:14] be convenient for getting the you know, the glue to the kids for their
[27:17] their projects, but besides that, it would be a terrible thing. So
[27:18] don't do that. I was thinking about the kids going the other way into
[27:22] the fact. Well that's that's just I guess, or a workforce, you
[27:26] know, and who knows everything old is new again, rightild labor might be
[27:30] the next one. This is so much fun that I forgot my train of
[27:33] thought though, So you can't keep doing that, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[27:37] yeah thanks. So so is part of the problem that progressives have here
[27:42] that what we need is like to blanket remove huge swaths of regulation. Sometimes
[27:52] regulation sucks people, and like this is a this is a case where like
[27:56] I just see and and I don't know anything about how so maybe I'm completely
[28:00] wrong, but I just see that we have this problem that is seventy year
[28:04] old legislation in this city, and we have that problem that is eighty five
[28:07] year old legislation in that province. And we have this other problem, which
[28:11] is a rule that's existed for forty two years. And like, if we
[28:15] try to go into each of these with in detail and argue with the people
[28:22] who are getting some benefit from having control of their situation, well it'll be
[28:26] it'll be twenty two, twenty three before we get this stuff fixed up.
[28:30] So I just don't see a solution in terms of like, in terms of
[28:34] zoning reform other than top down federal or province. Right, Well, look
[28:41] at the three pet plex thing happened and the city of Windsor they had to
[28:45] chew it. They just had to eat it, like, Okay, this
[28:47] is a thing and it's going to be great, and it's not. Did
[28:48] you hear anything about dogs and cats living together with three plexes? No?
[28:52] And if the province, with all apologies to those who disagree with my assessment
[28:59] of Drew diill integrity, if the province had imposed four plexus, Drew Dilkins
[29:03] would be saying that was awesome, thank you, is good enough. You
[29:07] know we're now sat and like it won't be in every neighborhood. It'll just
[29:11] be you know, yeah you and again, like we have to be realistic.
[29:15] We're not going to have a triplex in on every street, right like
[29:18] these are going. And we had a whole show talking about this after that,
[29:22] you know, Accelerator fund vote, you know, and I wrote about
[29:26] it. But like I think the big piece of the puzzle is you just
[29:30] hit the nail on the head. It's like a lot of the things that
[29:33] like I think and this is a phraser eko one thing, but a lot
[29:37] of things that the progressives cling to, right, like you know, heritage,
[29:41] you know, style guidelines, architectural standards like those are in many ways
[29:45] redlining certain neighborhoods. You can't do stuff in Walkerville. And the whole condo
[29:52] development that got held up for two years just off of Vaudewa Street there it
[29:59] was a hot football and all election, Yeah, like that was part of
[30:02] it. While it doesn't conform to the neighborhood, it doesn't meet the standards,
[30:04] we don't you know, it's gonna cast shadows all of those sort of
[30:08] things. It was fine when it was a vacant church for ten years though.
[30:11] Yeah, and so it's like so the same arguments get made, right,
[30:15] Like the question is like, you know, and this is like that
[30:22] artistic sort of perspective, like are we at a point in the housing crisis?
[30:26] And I think we're getting there where you know, we're gonna have ten
[30:30] cities in this city soon at some point. Like so the question becomes,
[30:34] are we actually serious about building housing and I use that any type of housing
[30:41] to ensure that people have a safe, comfortable, relatively comfortable place to rest
[30:45] their head at night. Or do we care more about, you know,
[30:51] the status quo politically, we care more about the status quo. And I
[30:53] think there's a large sort of block that is quite happy with as long as
[30:57] it's not happening in my neighborhood. I don't care what happens in another neighborhood.
[31:02] It is just where when it comes into their neighborhood, there's a challenge
[31:03] with it. So I think, you know, but like the easiest way
[31:07] to do it is like go throw out design guidelines. Go you know,
[31:11] the city could go do that, right, like the minimum standards set by
[31:15] the province and then cities build off of those minimum standards. You could throw
[31:18] out every urban design guideline in the city and just go back to the minimum
[31:22] standards. It would save builders a lot. You get a lot of ugly
[31:25] buildings, probably in Walkerville that don't conform to you know, red brick building,
[31:30] some building with cheap siding, red brick building, which would be ugly
[31:33] to look at, probably to some people. But it's an affordable place for
[31:37] other people to live well. And then what is the what is the priority?
[31:41] Right? Are we worried more about the risk that somebody is going to
[31:45] like drop a shipping container home onto an empty lot in Russell Woods right or
[31:51] wherever? Or are we more concerned about people having a place to rest their
[31:53] heads? So on the shipping container example. So I don't know how public
[31:59] this story is, but like Family Service, Windsor Windsor Essex built youth transitional
[32:04] housing in sandwich Town using shipping containers. They were prefabricated Krame was supposed to
[32:07] bring them in and drop them on. It's a great little building. I
[32:10] forget what street it's on. But what they ran into during the process was
[32:15] the sandwich Town heritage guidelines. So they had a vacant lot. I think
[32:19] either they bought it or was given to them. They got some federal money
[32:22] to pay for the shipping containers, and then they had to pay hundreds of
[32:23] thousands of dollars extra to meet the guidelines for fire code. For like they
[32:32] needed to put a front porch with an artistically designed you know, sort of
[32:37] feature on the front to match the heritage characteristic of the surrounding neighborhoods, you
[32:42] know, parking spots. Even though this is a youth transitional housing, none
[32:45] of these youth are going to own a car in all likelihood, or if
[32:47] they own a car, they were probably living in the car and now they're
[32:51] living in actual housing. Like, this is what those guidelines did to them,
[32:54] and it cost them a lot of money, and like and you know,
[33:00] what's it? But what's the gain? What's the gain? What's the
[33:04] gain against that? Now? I guess the counter argument would be that almost
[33:07] all development is commercial. So you picked you picked out the example of a
[33:12] completely development Argua, that's the most egregious of examples, right, So we
[33:16] can work back from that. If you're going to hammer a nonprofit for hundreds
[33:21] of thousands of dollars of extra cost, then like, what are you doing
[33:24] for the for profit? And at the Dawn's normal point. Why would a
[33:28] developer do that, They're just going to go to the sal and build subdivisions.
[33:30] It's the point that I'm making is exactly that it's merely a byproduct of
[33:36] punishing developers for having the audacity to want to build something new in Sandwich Town.
[33:40] And and Family Service just got caught in the crossfire. They weren't being
[33:44] punished for doing something good. I don't know, I just got caught in
[33:49] the in the general punishment for trying to do something well. Just to go
[33:52] back to your tens city point that you brought up, I mean, it
[33:55] is, it's happening. I mean it's They're just not in one congregate right
[34:00] now. But I go for a lot of walks before eight am, and
[34:05] you walk downtown and you will find on long o Lette numerous tents that get
[34:08] set up and taken down walk along the river front, and if you look
[34:13] down the one the Gateway Park, there's a permanent large tent complex that's set
[34:19] up there in the grass areas there are And then if you go to city
[34:22] Hall every morning, there are tents that are set up at City Hall Square.
[34:28] I mean, it's a very real thing that's happening, and I don't
[34:31] know what time they decide to take it all down and throw it into the
[34:35] shopping cart and move away. But you know it's not there during the daytime
[34:37] hours, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And with you know
[34:40] the court rulings that we've had that you can't get rid of these things unless
[34:45] you have adequate housing, we're going to be seeing more and more of them,
[34:49] right, So the ultimate in unregulated housing, right, And that is
[34:53] the counter argument I think to all of the like the beauty and heritage and
[34:58] safety concerns that people have, Like these are real issues, and nobody wants
[35:01] to go back to the nineteenth century when you can build a fire trap,
[35:07] you know what I mean, Like nobody wants to nobody wants to go back
[35:09] to unsafe housing. I agree, But I also think like a lot of
[35:13] people idealize those nineteenth century building because it's a nice red brick building on the
[35:16] outside and it's a fire trap on the inside, right, Like so like
[35:20] that's that's like the thing, Like you know, when is and this is
[35:24] something I personally don't know when I struggle with, but like when is something
[35:28] of heritage value? Right? Like I know that there's like a whole profession
[35:34] who manages that. I'm not going to weigh in on that, but like
[35:37] you know, I was fortunate enough to go to Europe last year. Like
[35:39] the cathedrals in Europe have heritage value, they took two hundred years to build,
[35:44] and like tens of thousands of people, Like do I think that like
[35:47] some house built in the nineteen seventies here in Windsor has heritage value in some
[35:52] cases, but it's in the right neighborhood. Probably not. Well, it's
[35:54] like heritage is the stuff that survived. It's all the little mereracles that survived.
[36:00] Right, you got this like way amazing old thing that's still here.
[36:04] And and I don't know, like heritage designations is like cheating at the game,
[36:07] right, It's like we want our whole city to be the awesomely preserved,
[36:13] surprised gem that you find in some corner that that you know, one
[36:16] hundred years later that people go to great links to defend because it's worth something.
[36:21] Right, So to your to your point, like I think it is,
[36:23] it is an important category question and and to me, like making it
[36:30] heritage like like designated a building that is in use. This is going to
[36:35] be a heritage building, right, this is not like to me, like
[36:38] seeking that status out is is like you're missing the point, right, like
[36:44] we've you know if if anyway, I just think that like it's not it's
[36:50] not archaeology, if it's just the stuff that everybody still uses, you know.
[36:53] And that's so I think we we're like we value something that is valuable
[37:00] because of its uniqueness, and then you try to make it universal like I'm
[37:04] just so so I guess I'm questioning that whole enterprise of like heritage designation.
[37:09] But then again, if we didn't have that system, the Arcada Pizza sign
[37:14] might have been torn down by now, So what do I know? Well,
[37:16] and like the and to be fair, the heritage designation tools have been
[37:21] the tool that kept a lot of those houses in Sandwich Town and along Indian
[37:24] Road from being torn down for a long time. And the whole process.
[37:28] So we linked the first two storage. Hey, it took a while.
[37:30] Here we go, John slow with the segue. So we made one.
[37:34] It only took thirty seven minutes. We did it. Okay, Well,
[37:37] that'll bring us to our last story. This is the one I was waiting
[37:40] for you know what, I'm just gonna read it in full. I'm just
[37:44] gonna read this one in full. Not unexpected. That's how Windsor to come
[37:51] see mper because Marrichik reacted to the news that construction of the Gordi Howe International
[37:54] Bridge is now expected to be completed September twenty twenty five due to challenges will
[37:59] it. The pandemic supply and supply chain, which were identified by the Detroit
[38:04] Windsor Detroit Bridge Authority, is the reason for the delay. Kuzmritrik says the
[38:07] news is not surprising and says having a clear date now for the opening is
[38:10] good and he's looking at this as a positive for local workers. Quote.
[38:15] This just means more work for local workers, for skilled workers. You look
[38:19] at the fact that since construction began there have been eleven million worker hours on
[38:22] the bridge and on the ports of entry. This just means you're going to
[38:25] see more workers working longer, bringing in those good paychecks. End quote.
[38:30] While the two ends of the bridge between Windsor and Detroit will likely connect at
[38:34] some point in the next few months, there's still lots of work to be
[38:37] done. Kauz Meretrix says, this is the largest federal infrastructure project in Canada,
[38:39] and the bridge will take is one piece, but the port of entries
[38:43] are also important, will take time. Quote, I got a chance to
[38:47] see, I got a chance to your the port of entry on the US
[38:52] side, I think see And I've got to say I've never seen a construction
[38:54] site that big. It is beyond anything I've imagined. And it's complicated project
[38:58] to say the least. We know there's been some disruptions. We know there's
[39:00] been some supply chain challenges as well too, so again this was not unexpected,
[39:05] he says. With the amended timeline, they're looking at a situation where
[39:07] the bridge, the next Star battery plant, and the Ojibwe Urban National Urban
[39:12] Park will all be completed within months of each other. The cost of the
[39:15] project has gone up from five point seven billion to six point four but whose
[39:17] Meritrick says that money will be here in the community. Quote, You're going
[39:21] to have workers working on that bridge for the next year in change. They're
[39:23] going to be bringing home their paychecks and spending that money in the community.
[39:27] The same time, trade right now is going smoothly across the border. That's
[39:30] not being interrupted. Manufacturers are still getting their parts. Farmers are still getting
[39:34] their produce to market. End quote. Construction of the bridge was originally set
[39:38] to be completed November twenty twenty four. The Windsor Detroit Bridge Authority says the
[39:43] first vehicles are expected to cross fall twenty twenty five. The project started in
[39:46] eighteen. I just want to start out with I like that MPK who's Mericheck
[39:52] is talking about how all these workers are going to be bringing home their paychecks,
[39:55] like bring it home, this is bring it home, this is so.
[40:00] I love this so much, so I have I have a brilliant idea
[40:02] you guys, City of Windsor. What we should do is, in every
[40:07] contract, everything we put out for tender, right, every crew has to
[40:12] have one person on the crew whose job, whose designated job is to follow
[40:16] behind everybody else and undo what they did right. Because if we do that,
[40:21] not only will we create one job for that one person, but it's
[40:24] going to create additional work for all those hard working City of Windsor employees and
[40:30] contractors who you know, they need to bring paychecks home to their families.
[40:34] Look, everybody has to polish a turd at some point in their lives right
[40:38] in politics, you got to polish a lot of turds, and this one,
[40:42] Wow, did this one need a special extra code of polish? Like
[40:45] it's horrible? What can you say except this is absolutely horrible? Why not
[40:50] say nothing? I don't understand why this was a response like there's there's no
[40:54] need to talk on this story. There is just absolutely unless you like the
[41:00] only thing that you could say that like, it's not gonna take as long
[41:02] as it took the build the expressway right. This is one where mp because
[41:08] like this is it just a silly one that we're making a few jokes about,
[41:12] But honestly, this is one where Mpkismerichick should feel the you know,
[41:15] the the proverbial political bullet whizzing through the air near him, because you make
[41:20] a mistake like that on a file that is highly salient to people, and
[41:24] you're gonna suffer a lot. You're gonna suffer a lot. So I think
[41:28] there's two things that came to mind for me. One, the new timing
[41:31] fall twenty twenty five is right about the time the next federal elections, so
[41:36] I suspect you'll have the prime minister down and yours Marricheck standing in the middle
[41:39] of said bridge with a big ribbon and a big set of scissors, and
[41:44] you know, could be, could be. I think timing there lines up
[41:46] pretty well for something like that. All the bells and whistles of the first
[41:51] car and you know, building Canada back right, the ad rights itself.
[41:57] We should set these projects up to end a good times from the beginning.
[42:00] Now, I don't think I'm not I'm not implying that this is an intentional
[42:04] thing, but I just think it's a nice coincidence that it's lining up that
[42:07] way. I think the second thing is, and I don't know if it
[42:10] was in that story or another story, but the community benefits package is continuing
[42:14] with the bridge, which is a good thing. So another three million dollars,
[42:15] it's gonna be split one point five million between Sandwich Town and the del
[42:20] Rey community, which is good. I think again, the question that's out
[42:23] there around the community is it going to continue post construction? Right? That
[42:28] was one of the things that again when I did some of the community engagement
[42:30] work on that original package, and you know, it's I think it's lived
[42:36] up to expectation for the most part, and there's still some projects ongoing,
[42:38] and I think one of the you know, like the sandwich Town new Road
[42:43] through sandwich Town is now just starting to happen, and some of those other
[42:45] things. The observation platform at Malden Park is now in place, so some
[42:51] of those things are in place now. But I do think that there's a
[42:54] you know, it's great that there's gonna be another year of funds for the
[42:58] community coming out of the project, you know, But I guess the question
[43:01] is, like what's after that is really the question, because again going back
[43:06] to that original consultation, some sort of legacy fund where you know, if
[43:10] you look at the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls, I believe they're setup is
[43:16] like a fraction of every toll collected goes into a community pod every year and
[43:22] then gets distributed to local nonprofits, to community programs, to planting trees,
[43:28] all of those things going forward. And so like, what does that look
[43:31] like for the Gordi Hell Bridge or is it just going to be this giant
[43:34] bridge that's just making money for a P three proponent for fifty years and really
[43:38] not doing much else other than allowing people to easily access the four to oh
[43:43] one from a border crossing quite interesting. Do you think that Do you think
[43:52] that that should be a permanent feature of this kind of project that every piece
[43:55] of major infrastructure in Canada should have the associated and if it's a programmed for
[44:00] the local community, I think so, or at least again, the nature
[44:02] of the project can dictate what it is some projects, you know, but
[44:07] this is going to have a toll that's going to be collected for the next
[44:09] one hundred plus a year life span of this bridge. So putting a little
[44:14] penny aside to to mitigate the impacts of we don't know what, like the
[44:20] shifting of truck traffic for example, from here on Church to that bridge is
[44:23] going to have impacts on you know, air quality in west windsor because like
[44:28] it's going to shift where you know they are. You know, I don't
[44:30] know, Like there's a whole bunch of unforeseen things that twenty years from now,
[44:34] when hover cars are crossing the bridge or autonomous cars are crossing the bridge,
[44:37] there might be some unknown thing that like that sort of thing can mitigate
[44:42] I think, you know, they are common in natural resource projects, right
[44:45] any project like the Ring of Fire to get the cobalt and lithium out of
[44:50] the ground to supply our battery. Planned gonna have a massive community benefit project
[44:53] for indigenous communities in the Far North YEA, So like, why not every
[44:58] project of certain size? I get what you're saying, This is really interesting
[45:01] to me, and if it's not interesting to everybody else, we don't have
[45:05] to talk about it. But this is really interesting to me because so I
[45:08] look at the ring of fire stuff and just superficially, my first thought is,
[45:14] well, there are resources being extracted forever, so it makes sense that
[45:19] you are going to look at what the post extraction community might look like and
[45:23] think about how are we going to build up the resilience of that community so
[45:29] that post extraction, this community isn't devastated when the mining operation sees That to
[45:35] me makes sense, right, So I guess I guess what I'm hearing is
[45:40] that from you, is that every infrastructure project of a you know, significant
[45:45] size. We're not talking about like a you know, mill and paved community
[45:50] benefits or anything like that, right, but any every like a change in
[45:54] infrastructure in a location is going to have an impact on the the geography immediately
[46:00] around that location. But I just don't think that that is, I don't
[46:05] think that's something where the impacts are consistent. Like, I don't think you
[46:08] can have a formula based on the size of the project. Oh, I
[46:12] agree, like you have to, like you. So, going back in
[46:15] time, the federal government did have and this was in twenty sixteen seventeen,
[46:21] a Community Employment Benefit Agreement attached to the Canadian Infrastructure Fund. So that meant
[46:24] anytime any city or any province got a significant chunk of money at that fund,
[46:29] and they had a minimum threshold at least fifty million dollars, they had
[46:31] to show how many local people are they going to hire and train with these
[46:37] dollars to work on this project as well as just build your road, build
[46:39] your bridge, build your building, right, because they wanted to use the
[46:44] federal dollars to drive training programs to get more people into the skill trades.
[46:49] That was sort of the thing that was happening then. That program sort of
[46:52] I don't know where it's at now, but like that's an example of where
[46:55] like you're looking at, you know, there's an opportunity for training on this
[47:00] thing, there was opportunity and like the gordihell Bridge Community Benefit has done some
[47:04] of that it's funded training programs, it's funded reskilling programs for people in the
[47:07] community, particularly on the US side where they had some very targeted ones for
[47:12] veterans and black youth in sort of the in Detroit, sort of within one
[47:16] hundred kilometers of the Detroit sort of side of the bridge. So yes,
[47:21] you do have to take the scope of the project, the type of the
[47:22] project, because like depending on what it is. But there are light rail
[47:25] projects in Toronto right now with community benefit projects. There are subway projects with
[47:30] community benefit agreements attached to them, and those are things raging from you know,
[47:34] the Downsview Casino in Toronto. So this is a new casino in like
[47:37] the former racetrack in Toronto. Like one of the community benefits, they had
[47:42] to build a childcare center for the surrounding neighborhood next to the thing, so
[47:45] that not only the employees could have a place to drop off their kids while
[47:47] they're at work, but the neighborhood had affordable gamblers. Anyone whoever needs that
[47:53] childcare center could drop it. It really cut down on the parking lot nanny
[47:57] business. But like I'm sorry, no like these so like you can look
[48:00] at again, there's a threshold that you probably need to hit where there's like,
[48:05] is there a good enough return on investment? But we're just about to
[48:07] spend another seven hundred million dollars and three million dollars of that is going to
[48:12] the community. So you're in essence saying that, let's do some quick math
[48:16] here. You know that the Windsor general community benefit is worth point zero three
[48:22] to two point zero zero three two percent of that additional investment the other side
[48:29] of that. And I think it is, like, it is interesting because
[48:30] it is specifically sandwich Town. We're talking about no question in my mind that
[48:35] Windsor is better off with a bridge than without it, and we're better off
[48:37] with two bridges than we are without them. And we're talking like there's there's
[48:45] direct economic impact, but then there's also all the intangibles, right, And
[48:51] that's the piece that I'm kind of interested in because it's like money is one
[48:55] thing, and know, I think that we've just talked about excessive regulation.
[49:02] We just talked about the challenges that creates. And anytime we're talking about like
[49:07] atomizing dollars into communities, these special little funds that are now associated with infrastructure
[49:14] projects. But oh hey, there's this community a need that has no infrastructure
[49:17] project happening, absolutely right, all that stuff right, So I guess,
[49:22] like I wonder, is there a way to isolate out like negative impacts that
[49:29] may accrue to an infrastructure project and and think like I'm uncomfortable with, like,
[49:36] like we're gonna spit all this by sitting in a room and discussing how
[49:40] much worth there is to give to the community on this project versus that project.
[49:45] Like it almost seems like it could be sub discipline of economics, not
[49:51] not unlike not unlike the you know, the the subdiscipline of trying to determine
[49:58] how many dollars a nickel of tourists that gets spent in your community is worth.
[50:01] And it's four hundred million dollars per nickel apparently or whatever that formula is.
[50:05] So so there's precedent, like do you think that that's something that would
[50:07] happen, that we might end up with a process and a procedure for determining
[50:14] the long haul impacts of infrastructure on people. And by the way, John
[50:19] is the stand in for the entire audience who has switched this podcast. Yeah,
[50:22] he's on the phone. It's a great conversation, but we might as
[50:24] well just go to the coffee shop and have it. No. But so,
[50:29] yeah, there has to be some sort of framework, right and ideally
[50:30] there would be some sort of like federal framework which anytime federal dollars are going
[50:37] into a certain classification of project, you know that you then have a process
[50:40] that then kicks off. And I think you're sort of seeing something like that.
[50:44] But there of a national park, right like, there is a process
[50:47] now underway. It's not entirely clear all the pieces of that process, but
[50:51] there Parks Canada is doing some work consulting on the community and asking for what
[50:54] do you want to see, what you don't you want to call ball First
[50:58] Nation is doing some stuff around Indigenous history and indigenous sort of access to the
[51:01] site. You're friends of a Jibwe, you know, because they've been a
[51:05] long standing community partner. They're still doing everything that they do that with the
[51:08] park and stuff like that, and that's all going to create, you know,
[51:12] eventually a framework which I from my understanding, the University of Windsors Center
[51:15] for Cities is sort of saying like you're building a playbook. If here's how
[51:19] you should build these urban national parks going forward, Right, So you think
[51:22] we can generalize from that and take lessons from that, well, I think
[51:24] I think like you would have to categorize depending on the type of project a
[51:28] little bit. A bridge is different than a subway, is different than a
[51:30] mine, right, And I think like whatever the life span like, and
[51:34] I think things are like depends on lifespans and things like that as well.
[51:37] Right, you know, is the project just a one time thing or is
[51:40] it something where it's going to be lasting and impacting for a long period of
[51:44] time. I think there is a pathway to do that, and there's been
[51:45] some research on that. Vancouver and Toronto are probably the leading cities, unsurprisingly
[51:51] because they're big cities and they've experimented with these things at a municipal level.
[51:53] So City of Toronto has a municipal community benefit framework right where municipal dollars are
[52:00] being tracked where it's like they're refixing, they're fixing a community center pool.
[52:04] How many kids or youth out of the neighborhood are they hiring for summer jobs?
[52:07] You know, who are you know, black youth or newcomer youth giving
[52:10] them their first job, their first credential whatever. In Canada, how many
[52:15] trainees from apprenticeships partnerships with like Leuna and the Carpenters Union are working on those
[52:20] sites and they're tracking those things. Now there's a whole community Benefit unit at
[52:23] the City of Toronto that is actually doing that work on municipal projects. So
[52:29] work is being done in the space. I think it's early days. I
[52:31] think the British and the Americans are a lot further ahead. They've done things
[52:36] like this a lot more, partially because municipalities in those in the US have
[52:43] far more authority to write bylaws to actually enforce these things locally, which is
[52:46] why once Stolante has built an auto plant in Detroit, they had a community
[52:51] benefit agreement, but our ev plant here does not. And so, you
[52:54] know, I think there's opportunity for like you could use this as a model
[52:59] for more massive scale infrastructure projects. Again, we can quibble about what that
[53:04] threshold is, and sure there'll be some project that's going to be, you
[53:07] know, ninety nine cents under that threshold someday that someone will be pissed off
[53:09] about. But like, I think that there is certainly value in leveraging dollars
[53:15] you're spending anyways to get maximum benefit out of it rather than just oh,
[53:21] here's a big check to some P three proponent, right, and they just
[53:24] build the thing and go away after after they collect their bill. Sure,
[53:28] and you're leveraging some of the organizational capacity of the P three while they're well,
[53:32] the organization that is building that thing exists. It's interesting and it makes
[53:36] sense, and I appreciate you giving me that little like sort of potted history
[53:40] of where it's all at. So it's not that we, you know,
[53:44] we don't know how to do this, I guess because we just haven't done
[53:46] it enough. Yeah, okay, And like I think in smaller communities like
[53:50] Windsor, there isn't the nonprofit and community infrastructure capacity, like the social infrastructure
[53:55] of like who brings together all of the newcomer program agencies to create the job
[54:00] training program for the newcomer people who have just arrived in the community to pipeline
[54:05] them into these things. You know, you need some of that social infrastructure
[54:08] in order to like create the training pipelines and create the opportunity pipelines. So
[54:13] when the project appears, there's a framework in place, and there's a pipeline
[54:17] in place to actually get people onto those job sites. Okay, makes sense.
[54:22] I wrote a whole report on this. Can we can tell it?
[54:24] Is it available anywhere? Hey? There you go, Frazerfathers dot Com.
[54:30] Just kidding. Yeah, I go home and buy that. It's a race,
[54:36] buddy. Once I conceived it, it's got to happen. John,
[54:42] I know we we wandered away into the weeds of community benefits. Can I
[54:45] can I take thirty seconds to more to talk about turn polishing before we finish
[54:50] this topic of Okay, we we chuckled about Krismeerchick's lines here, and with
[54:59] good reason. It's at the edge. It's at the very edge of one
[55:02] like you can get away with it, all right. And this is not
[55:07] the throwshade on mister Kismetrik, because we like Eric as much as we like
[55:10] any other politician in this region, and everybody does this kind of stuff.
[55:15] It's certainly not isolated to one person. But what I wanted to talk about
[55:20] here, like specifically related to that, is that this is just the logical
[55:25] conclusion of rhetoric that gets used around these parts that I completely hate, Okay,
[55:32] And this is the zero sum rhetoric about how we are politicians are great
[55:37] because we're winning by screwing over the rest of the country and getting like a
[55:43] dollar ten back for our tax dollars. Screw those people in Nunea of it.
[55:47] They're getting ninety cents and the you know, the people in Orangeville are
[55:52] even worse off. We're getting a dollar ten It's terrible. This country is
[55:57] a community, this province is a community. The idea is for us to
[56:00] get what we need from the common fund so that we can pursue our individual
[56:07] destiny within the collective. It's not to screw over our partners and our neighbors
[56:10] and our fellow citizens. I hate this so much, and like this is
[56:15] just a completely naked expression of it. Right this, this bridge will be
[56:22] no more functional to Canada or the world ever. But we're going to take
[56:27] an extra year and spend seven hundred extra million dollars. And here's why that's
[56:31] awesome. With my winsor hat on. It sucks and we shouldn't do it.
[56:37] And it's not again not to pick on Eric. Every politician does this
[56:39] and it sucks. Can we just talk about this like we're not trying to
[56:43] rob the treasury? And again, this was a radio interview with Patty Handy
[56:47] Sides on an eight hundred. Sir, it was just a conversation, and
[56:51] like I can understand in a conversational format if you're not actually like you're sitting
[56:54] down and expecting, you know, a specific thing on a specific topic.
[56:59] Sure, what's good about this? But I mean to go to your point,
[57:02] like residents like Frasier, you get another year of having trucks driving through
[57:08] your neighborhood. Isn't this great? I mean there might be another blockade at
[57:13] some point and all the trucks will still be there, and the pre Big
[57:15] Bridge era we get another year of it, and that isn't that precious?
[57:19] Because it's finite. There will never be any more pre Bridge era. You
[57:23] know what. This is a leap year, so it's fitting that we're gaining
[57:28] a little bit of extra time with our bridge. This is maybe it's not
[57:31] all bad leap day Williams showed up yet again. So can we can we
[57:36] get the Gordi how International Bridge renamed the Leak Bridge? Oh, I don't
[57:39] know if the Leak Bridge that's probably a really bad name. That's the episode
[57:46] title, folks, This is Roast City Politics. I thought it was gonna
[57:50] be Roasty Insurrection. But uh yeah no, that's good. The leap day
[57:57] Bridge. I had to squeeze it in at the end just so we could
[57:59] have a show title. You guys at once every four years, There's an
[58:02] Amazing Day, Oh Folks. January sixth to twenty four. Regular pan include
[58:08] Doug Star, Tory Fraser, Fathers, Myself, John lydkey head to Patreon
[58:12] dot com, slash Roast City Politics, pick him a biz x, go
[58:14] online or find out where we're banned. And Roast City Politics able to broadcast
[58:17] live on tape thanks to the kind support of Luna six two five Building Better Communities

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.