# Never Admit You're Wrong

An episode of [Rose City Politics](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1247337855), 30 Oct 2026, 1 h 25 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/76086114/never_admit_you_re_wrong.mp3

Pat, Don, Kristen and Doug are joined by retired journalist Doug Schmidt for an election post-mortem.

## Transcript

[0:22] Speaker 1: Welcome to Rose City Politics, Windsor's Municipal Politics Podcast, where
[0:27] Speaker 1: we talk about the people, the politics, and the decisions
[0:30] Speaker 1: shaping the city. I'm Pat Papadias, here with Doug Sartori,
[0:34] Speaker 1: Don Merrifield, and Christian Siapis for Full House Politics. To
[0:38] Speaker 1: talk about the election, we have a new mayor. Voters
[0:42] Speaker 1: have chosen Fred Francis to replace Drew Dilkins at City Hall.
[0:47] Speaker 1: Before we get into what all that means, let's take
[0:50] Speaker 1: a quick look around the council results because there was
[0:53] Speaker 1: plenty happening beyond the mayor's race. In Ward 1, Darcy
[0:57] Speaker 1: Reno won with 40.2% of the vote in a seven-candidate race.
[1:02] Speaker 1: Fraser Fathers had a commanding re-election in Ward 2, taking
[1:06] Speaker 1: just over 80% of the vote. Ronaldo Agostino also won
[1:11] Speaker 1: comfortably in Ward 3 with almost 68% of the vote.
[1:15] Speaker 1: In Ward 4, Chris Holt returns to council, winning with 55.5%.
[1:18] Speaker 1: Ken Acton takes Ward 5 with 49%, while Jeremy Renault
[1:21] Speaker 1: won Ward 6 with 43%. Angelo Marinani was re-elected in
[1:30] Speaker 1: Ward 7 with 70% of the vote. Ward 8 was
[1:33] Speaker 1: one of the closest races of the night. Gary Kashuk
[1:36] Speaker 1: held onto his seat, beating Kevin Racine by just 163 votes.
[1:42] Speaker 1: Kieran McKenzie won another strong re-election in Ward 9 with 74.4%
[1:45] Speaker 1: of the vote. And in Ward 10, Mark Misanovic defeated
[1:51] Speaker 1: incumbent Jim Morrison in a four-way race, taking 37% of
[1:54] Speaker 1: the vote. So alongside the change at the top, we
[1:59] Speaker 1: have new representation in several wards and some very comfortable
[2:03] Speaker 1: victories for incumbents and a couple of races that were
[2:05] Speaker 1: much closer.
[2:07] Speaker 2: That's the scoreboard.
[2:08] Speaker 1: Now the question is what the results tell us and
[2:11] Speaker 1: what they don't. Tonight, we'll be looking at the mayoral result,
[2:15] Speaker 1: the ward races, the surprises, the stories behind those numbers
[2:19] Speaker 1: and the questions the new mayor and council will have
[2:23] Speaker 1: to answer. To help us unpack that all, We're joined
[2:27] Speaker 1: by retired journalist Doug Schmidt.
[2:30] Speaker 2: Doug has spent some.
[2:31] Speaker 1: Years reporting and editing at the Windsor Star. He's seen
[2:35] Speaker 1: plenty of political promises come and go. And we're looking
[2:39] Speaker 1: forward to his perspective on what happened Monday night and
[2:41] Speaker 1: what it means for Windsor.
[2:43] Speaker 2: And of course, we'll.
[2:44] Speaker 1: Revisit our own predictions. Some of us may have a
[2:47] Speaker 1: little explaining to do. But before we begin, a quick
[2:51] Speaker 1: thanks to Liuna625, whose support helps make Rose City Politics possible. So,
[2:57] Speaker 1: campaign is over, signs are coming down, and the test
[3:00] Speaker 1: now begins on what happens next at City Call. Doug Schmidt,
[3:05] Speaker 1: because there's two Dougs now, welcome to Rose City Politics.
[3:08] Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
[3:09] Speaker 3: Thanks for having me aboard.
[3:11] Speaker 2: Great.
[3:12] Speaker 1: So we've had a couple of days to digest the results.
[3:15] Speaker 1: Let's start with the big picture. We spent some weeks talking,
[3:18] Speaker 1: you know, about the candidates, the issues and the possible outcomes.
[3:22] Speaker 2: And on Monday night, the voters had their say. So
[3:25] Speaker 2: let's get some first reactions, Doug. Doug Schmidt. And I'm
[3:28] Speaker 2: going to have to say your last name all the time.
[3:31] Speaker 2: Guest Doug.
[3:34] Speaker 1: What do you think was the biggest surprise of election night?
[3:37] Speaker 1: Whether it's a race, the margin, overall pattern, what was
[3:43] Speaker 1: your biggest surprise of the night?
[3:45] Speaker 3: Well, the biggest surprise obviously is the new mayor. I've
[3:49] Speaker 3: been covering municipal politics for decades and it's very unusual
[3:55] Speaker 3: to see an incumbent tossed and especially a strong mayor,
[4:01] Speaker 3: because it's a fairly new phenomenon. So that really surprised me.
[4:06] Speaker 3: I thought it was a given that Drew was going
[4:08] Speaker 3: to be back. He had a lot of things in
[4:13] Speaker 3: his back pocket. We've got the Gordie Howe Bridge, we've
[4:15] Speaker 3: got the new hospital. Downtown seems to be finally getting
[4:23] Speaker 3: a little bit of traction in terms of its potential.
[4:27] Speaker 3: I've been here 35 years, and for 35 years, everybody's
[4:32] Speaker 3: been saying how the downtown has great potential, but never realized.
[4:38] Speaker 3: It's still a long ways to go for the health
[4:41] Speaker 3: of the downtown, but At least, and I'm telling you,
[4:46] Speaker 3: it's only the last couple of election cycles that everybody
[4:49] Speaker 3: was on board that downtown needed something. Even Fred Francis
[4:56] Speaker 3: and his earlier incarnations, you know, to him, downtown was
[5:00] Speaker 3: just one of 10 wards. His was an important ward, too.
[5:05] Speaker 3: But I think they... Politicians have certainly certainly the incumbent,
[5:11] Speaker 3: the outgoing council recognize that, you know, if you don't
[5:13] Speaker 3: have much of a downtown, you don't have much of
[5:16] Speaker 3: a city to brag about. And so I'm just so.
[5:20] Speaker 3: You know, it's heartwarming to see that that's finally dawning
[5:24] Speaker 3: on everyone. The other thing is all the newbies. Big
[5:29] Speaker 3: surprise there. Like, very progressive, knowledgeable, engaged. And by progressive,
[5:34] Speaker 3: I don't mean lefties. Although, you know, who knows? But
[5:38] Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. You know, we need progressive ideas implemented
[5:43] Speaker 3: in this town. And we've got some people with some
[5:46] Speaker 3: great progressive views and also with the background in the
[5:52] Speaker 3: middle to actually see those things go forward. I mean,
[5:58] Speaker 3: the big elephant in the room is just based on
[6:00] Speaker 3: the turnout for the mayor's election, less than a third
[6:03] Speaker 3: of eligible voters actually bothered to vote. A cynic might
[6:09] Speaker 3: say that everybody thinks Windsor is just everything's hunky-dory and
[6:12] Speaker 3: lovely and they didn't need to bother to vote. But
[6:16] Speaker 3: I think there's some underlying big concern there. That is
[6:22] Speaker 3: just an atrocious figure. How do you say that you
[6:29] Speaker 3: have a mandate when the vast majority of the eligible
[6:34] Speaker 3: voters couldn't be bothered? Those are good.
[6:40] Speaker 1: And I think we'll spend some time exploring some of
[6:42] Speaker 1: those some really good points there on on the surprise
[6:46] Speaker 1: at the top, but also some of the issues that
[6:48] Speaker 1: we saw that got more attention, the selection and of course,
[6:51] Speaker 1: voter turnout. Kristen, let me bring your voice into this.
[6:54] Speaker 1: What was the biggest surprise for you on Monday night?
[6:58] Speaker 4: Well, for anybody who's close to me or if you've
[7:00] Speaker 4: heard me, you know, in general, I hate being wrong.
[7:05] Speaker 4: And I'm very disappointed to say that I had to.
[7:09] Speaker 5: I felt I didn't want to make predictions. I didn't
[7:12] Speaker 5: want to make any endorsements last last episode. And then
[7:16] Speaker 5: I came out with all these thoughts and then.
[7:18] Speaker 4: I did not end up being as accurate as I
[7:21] Speaker 4: might have liked to hope.
[7:23] Speaker 5: I will stop short of saying I was wrong.
[7:25] Speaker 4: I was right in a lot of ways, but I
[7:29] Speaker 4: have to say, I mean, and I think hopefully it
[7:30] Speaker 4: comes across in our last episode. I might go back
[7:33] Speaker 4: and play it just to hear what nonsense I was spouting.
[7:35] Speaker 5: But I did want to see some change.
[7:38] Speaker 4: And I think some of it is the surprise, I
[7:42] Speaker 4: think maybe a lot of folks are feeling this, you know,
[7:44] Speaker 4: within some of the circles I've talked to, the surprise
[7:46] Speaker 4: that we may have actually gotten something close to what
[7:50] Speaker 4: we were hoping for, like looking around the table going.
[7:53] Speaker 5: Well, that's great.
[7:54] Speaker 4: We got a couple of people with new ideas. There
[7:56] Speaker 4: might be some new things put on the table. Fred
[7:59] Speaker 4: has promised not to use the strong mayor powers. He's
[8:02] Speaker 4: promised a very collaborative approach. Maybe there's hope that if somebody,
[8:06] Speaker 4: you know, who's a really strong urbanite or somebody who
[8:10] Speaker 4: wants to put forward like a real interesting evidence-based argument
[8:16] Speaker 4: for more robust transit, like some of those things that
[8:19] Speaker 4: were on my wishlist.
[8:20] Speaker 5: Are There may be a faint glimmer of hope in
[8:23] Speaker 5: the future.
[8:24] Speaker 4: I think that was the biggest surprise for me on
[8:27] Speaker 4: on Monday night was the feeling of hope, the feeling
[8:31] Speaker 4: of change and the sense that that might actually be
[8:34] Speaker 4: a reality for us. So, I mean, all the things
[8:37] Speaker 4: I don't think that there was any real turnover that
[8:39] Speaker 4: I was super shocked for before. I think that, that, uh,
[8:42] Speaker 4: Gary Kashak is probably holding his breath. I think he,
[8:48] Speaker 4: he felt a little, a little close, close to a
[8:50] Speaker 4: death's door on that night. I think it was a
[8:53] Speaker 4: little bit close for him and, uh, and him actually
[8:55] Speaker 4: coming through. I think that was, uh, that was a surprise, uh,
[9:00] Speaker 4: just from the beginning of the night to the end
[9:01] Speaker 4: of the night. I think that was a, that was
[9:03] Speaker 4: a surprise because it looked like Kevin Racine was coming
[9:05] Speaker 4: out ahead in that race. otherwise I want to say
[9:10] Speaker 4: not too many surprises it felt it felt like what
[9:12] Speaker 4: I predicted besides the mayoral race going you know I
[9:16] Speaker 4: truly wasn't expecting Fred to come out as strong as
[9:20] Speaker 4: he did and I know we're going to dig into
[9:21] Speaker 4: that a little bit that is the big story here
[9:24] Speaker 4: but it's to me the biggest question outstanding is what
[9:28] Speaker 4: happens next and I know we're going to get into
[9:30] Speaker 4: that but like Who is this council?
[9:33] Speaker 5: What are they going to do?
[9:34] Speaker 4: And how is that leadership going to challenge Fred Francis?
[9:37] Speaker 5: It's really exciting. It's an exciting position to be in,
[9:39] Speaker 5: for sure.
[9:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with Gary's warrant there, I think it
[9:46] Speaker 1: was like on the final poll. I think he was,
[9:48] Speaker 1: you know, Kevin Racine was ahead until the final poll.
[9:52] Speaker 1: So it's really interesting how, you know, how it works
[9:55] Speaker 1: with your hard beating until all the polls come in
[9:59] Speaker 1: when it's such a tight race.
[10:00] Speaker 2: John, let's bring you in.
[10:02] Speaker 1: Was there anything that happened that you genuinely didn't see
[10:04] Speaker 1: coming before Monday night?
[10:08] Speaker 6: Well, first of all, I'd just like to say about Gary,
[10:10] Speaker 6: he probably owes me a little bit of a thanks
[10:12] Speaker 6: because right at the end, I voted for him 164 times.
[10:16] Speaker 6: So that just put him right over the top and
[10:18] Speaker 6: finally got him back on council. I think that was
[10:23] Speaker 6: pretty funny. It made myself laugh. Especially since you don't
[10:27] Speaker 6: live in that ward. A hundred percent, which just makes
[10:29] Speaker 6: it even better. I think what Doug Schmidt said, I
[10:34] Speaker 6: kind of agree with. I was surprised. I thought Drew
[10:37] Speaker 6: was going to win and I didn't even really think
[10:39] Speaker 6: it was going to be super close to be honest
[10:40] Speaker 6: with you. It was funny after, you know, watching some coverage,
[10:44] Speaker 6: not just at Windsor, there seemed to be a feeling
[10:47] Speaker 6: out there among the electric that they were done with
[10:50] Speaker 6: everybody who was in office. Because a lot of mayors
[10:53] Speaker 6: who had been in various cities for a long time
[10:55] Speaker 6: actually lost. The guy in Sarnia was there for like
[10:58] Speaker 6: 35 years. He got the boot. Gary McNamara lost after 8,000 decades.
[11:02] Speaker 6: Andrea Horvath lost in Hamilton. And so I think there
[11:07] Speaker 6: was kind of a feel or just a desire after
[11:11] Speaker 6: COVID and obviously all the chaos we're going with now
[11:13] Speaker 6: that we're just sick of this whole lot of politicians
[11:16] Speaker 6: and we're going to try something else and see if
[11:18] Speaker 6: it changes anything. Uh, aside from that, uh, yeah, Gary, uh,
[11:22] Speaker 6: being that close, even with my 164 votes was, uh,
[11:26] Speaker 6: pretty shocking to me. I didn't, I didn't think that
[11:28] Speaker 6: it was going to be close at all. And Jim
[11:30] Speaker 6: Morrison and 10, I, I thought it would be close.
[11:33] Speaker 6: I knew Mark would have a good shot just because
[11:35] Speaker 6: he was so close, you know, when he ran last time,
[11:38] Speaker 6: but Jim ended up in third with like, what, 1100
[11:40] Speaker 6: votes or something like that. He got, he got kind
[11:42] Speaker 6: of wiped out and, I mean, I don't, Jim's always
[11:47] Speaker 6: kind of flown under the radar. He's not one of
[11:49] Speaker 6: those guys who's on social media a lot talking about,
[11:51] Speaker 6: you know, he's not like Kieran or Ronaldo or, you know,
[11:53] Speaker 6: all over the place all the time. So I don't
[11:56] Speaker 6: know how much effort and same with Gary. I don't
[11:59] Speaker 6: know how much effort those guys put into their campaign.
[12:01] Speaker 6: If they were actually out there running around a lot
[12:04] Speaker 6: or if they felt they were going to be a
[12:05] Speaker 6: pretty secure shot at getting back in. So yeah, Jim
[12:09] Speaker 6: losing handily probably was the most shocking thing to me. Uh,
[12:13] Speaker 6: and obviously drew, I actually thought drew had, like I say,
[12:16] Speaker 6: I thought drew was a lock. I didn't think there'd
[12:17] Speaker 6: be anything, but you know, Fred and drew in my
[12:21] Speaker 6: personal opinion, aren't very different. So if you just want
[12:23] Speaker 6: something to change, I mean, drew has been there for
[12:26] Speaker 6: a long time. We all know politicians were out there
[12:28] Speaker 6: welcome after a while, no matter how good or bad
[12:30] Speaker 6: they are. So maybe it was just a matter of
[12:31] Speaker 6: they want to change. And Fred was, you know, the least, uh,
[12:35] Speaker 6: the least worrisome change we could get. Cause I mean,
[12:37] Speaker 6: they're not that much different in my opinion.
[12:40] Speaker 2: Doug Sartori. I think I'm just going to call you
[12:42] Speaker 2: Sartori for the rest of the show.
[12:43] Speaker 7: Sounds good.
[12:45] Speaker 6: Call him Spanky. Just call him Spanky.
[12:50] Speaker 1: What are some of the pre-election assumptions you had that
[12:53] Speaker 1: held up, but then, you know, the ones that did not?
[12:58] Speaker 7: Well, you know, the big one, of course, is the
[13:01] Speaker 7: mayor's race. I thought that Drew Dilkins would hold on.
[13:05] Speaker 7: And I've been reflecting on that. Because, you know, I
[13:12] Speaker 7: think that there was a lot of signs in the air, actually,
[13:16] Speaker 7: for quite a long time that Drew Dilkin's time may
[13:19] Speaker 7: have come. And so I think, though, that in an
[13:23] Speaker 7: environment like this, like a municipal election where there's just
[13:29] Speaker 7: not a lot of hard data that you can lean on.
[13:33] Speaker 7: I think that we put a lot of stock as
[13:36] Speaker 7: human beings. We love stories. We love to build narratives.
[13:40] Speaker 7: We put a lot of stock into The narratives that
[13:43] Speaker 7: we develop about what's happening. And of course, that's one
[13:46] Speaker 7: of the reasons why campaigns want to control the message
[13:49] Speaker 7: and control the narrative, because it is powerful. But but
[13:52] Speaker 7: in this case, you know, I think that there was
[13:55] Speaker 7: a lot of people paid attention. too close attention to
[14:02] Speaker 7: the micro and not enough to the macro, you know,
[14:04] Speaker 7: and the micro being the quality of campaigns, which in
[14:08] Speaker 7: the grand scheme of things, it feels like it should
[14:12] Speaker 7: be the most critical piece, but it really is a
[14:14] Speaker 7: small component, I think, of people's decision-making. And this is
[14:18] Speaker 7: a great reminder of that. Drew was done, you know,
[14:23] Speaker 7: Drew was obviously done before, Anyone got there, put their
[14:28] Speaker 7: name in. And, you know, I really wonder, like, you
[14:31] Speaker 7: look at the performance of Cat Pasquatch and all due respect,
[14:34] Speaker 7: you know, we've all spent the last couple of weeks
[14:36] Speaker 7: singing her praises in terms of the quality of her
[14:39] Speaker 7: campaign and the good things that she was able to do.
[14:42] Speaker 7: But I also think that the the her strong result
[14:45] Speaker 7: indicates just how. you know, just how many votes were
[14:49] Speaker 7: out there floating around and just how many people were
[14:52] Speaker 7: willing to look in any direction if it was going
[14:56] Speaker 7: to be a move away from Drew Dilkens.
[15:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting points. Let's get into that mayor race just
[15:04] Speaker 2: a little bit more.
[15:05] Speaker 1: Like, you know, when we take a look at that result,
[15:07] Speaker 1: I mean, it's significantly going to shape the next four years,
[15:12] Speaker 1: despite how different Don thinks, you know, they're policies maybe
[15:17] Speaker 1: or style, I'm not really sure. We'll get into that
[15:19] Speaker 1: a little bit more because, you know, Fred Francis did
[15:22] Speaker 1: say he offered different things and we'll look at that.
[15:24] Speaker 1: But he won with 28,204 votes. So that's 47.6% of
[15:26] Speaker 1: the total. Drew Dilkins received 20,000, just over 20,000 votes
[15:27] Speaker 1: or 33.8%. That's a margin of over 8,000 votes between them, 8,183.
[15:29] Speaker 1: Cat Pasquatch finished third with A pretty surprising, we thought
[15:49] Speaker 1: she would do well, but I don't know who thought
[15:51] Speaker 1: she was going to do this well with 7,253 votes
[15:56] Speaker 1: or 12.2% of the share. So although Francis did not
[15:59] Speaker 1: win an outright majority of the votes cast, he did win,
[16:03] Speaker 1: you know, I think what we should say is a
[16:06] Speaker 1: substantial margin, you know, margin. And therefore, Drew Dilkin's 12
[16:11] Speaker 1: years at the mayor's chair is now done, come to
[16:14] Speaker 1: an end. I'm going to go to Kristen on this
[16:18] Speaker 1: one because we were around this issue before the election.
[16:23] Speaker 1: Was this a vote for Fred Francis? Was it a
[16:27] Speaker 1: vote against Drew Dilkins or some kind of combination of
[16:32] Speaker 1: the two?
[16:34] Speaker 5: So it's still a little early.
[16:37] Speaker 4: I think what I want to see is as we
[16:40] Speaker 4: drill down to some of these numbers, what I had
[16:43] Speaker 4: heard initially was, is that his numbers were very strong.
[16:47] Speaker 4: Fred Francis's numbers were very strong in ward two. They
[16:50] Speaker 4: were very strong in ward nine. And I'm interested in
[16:54] Speaker 4: breaking that down as we start to get into like
[16:57] Speaker 4: neighborhood by neighborhood ward by ward. And I don't have
[16:59] Speaker 4: those numbers readily available. I haven't broken them down, but,
[17:03] Speaker 4: but that would be my question about this is that
[17:05] Speaker 4: I think different voters were motivated in different ways. I
[17:09] Speaker 4: think cat pass squash brought a lot of new people
[17:12] Speaker 4: to the table and there were a lot of new voters.
[17:14] Speaker 4: We did see, I think we saw a surge in voters, another,
[17:20] Speaker 4: was it 7,000 or 8,000 people voted. Although the percentage
[17:25] Speaker 4: didn't change because our population has changed, of course, there
[17:28] Speaker 4: were definitely more people who were voting in this election.
[17:32] Speaker 4: And I wonder how many of those are new people
[17:35] Speaker 4: that skewed those numbers a little bit, like people who
[17:38] Speaker 4: hadn't voted before. I also think that there was good
[17:43] Speaker 4: reason for people to not want to vote Drew in
[17:47] Speaker 4: and to look for, like Ward 9 is an example
[17:50] Speaker 4: of that sort of the other South Windsor vote, that
[17:54] Speaker 4: if you're feeling like Drew is really not representing you well,
[17:58] Speaker 4: you want somebody who has similar values, similar promises that
[18:04] Speaker 4: they have to offer, But without a real dramatic change,
[18:10] Speaker 4: you're going to be very comfortably placing your vote with Fred.
[18:13] Speaker 4: I think that he also had some appeal in places
[18:15] Speaker 4: like Ward 2 where there are very strong footholds for
[18:19] Speaker 4: Brian Massey and having him as his campaign manager may
[18:22] Speaker 4: have successfully gotten him that.
[18:24] Speaker 5: Contingent of the vote.
[18:26] Speaker 4: And I think in areas like that, we are seeing
[18:28] Speaker 4: the not Drew vote and the pro-Fred vote sort of
[18:33] Speaker 4: alternately on both sides. And I think that, that Drew was,
[18:37] Speaker 4: was right in that campaign to stay solid. He can't
[18:41] Speaker 4: be anything other than what he is. And it's just
[18:44] Speaker 4: a test of that, that voter appetite for that status quo. He's,
[18:51] Speaker 4: he's got, I think he was right to go on
[18:53] Speaker 4: a strong status quo campaign and it just ended up
[18:56] Speaker 4: being not.
[18:57] Speaker 2: What people wanted at this time.
[18:59] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[19:00] Speaker 2: Doug, join us on this one.
[19:02] Speaker 1: Did Francis offer in your view, like a, a sufficiently
[19:05] Speaker 1: clear alternative, or was it really Drew Dilkin's record that
[19:10] Speaker 1: did much of the work for him, or if not
[19:13] Speaker 1: his record, his time perhaps on council?
[19:19] Speaker 3: I think it's more that people just said, okay, Drew's
[19:22] Speaker 3: been here for 12 years, that's enough. Certainly enough for
[19:26] Speaker 3: a lot of people I know. The issue I had was,
[19:31] Speaker 3: first of all, Fred, very dominant win, Those 8,000 voters,
[19:37] Speaker 3: that's a huge margin. Up until the last couple of years,
[19:44] Speaker 3: I didn't see much light between most of the policies
[19:47] Speaker 3: and positions. of Fred Francis and Jimmy Dilkins. They were
[19:53] Speaker 3: in sync on almost everything up until fairly recently. And
[19:58] Speaker 3: they diverged only in a few things. And I agree
[20:01] Speaker 3: with what Don and Doug were saying about, like, you know,
[20:05] Speaker 3: you'd really need to dig down into the weeds and
[20:08] Speaker 3: see what kind of ground games they had. I was
[20:12] Speaker 3: covering City Hall for the decade that Eddie Francis was mayor,
[20:16] Speaker 3: and we did manage to dig down into the weeds
[20:20] Speaker 3: somewhat then. And it might surprise people, but Eddie Francis just,
[20:26] Speaker 3: he had hundreds and hundreds of volunteers that just, you know,
[20:32] Speaker 3: they knocked on every door several times. Everybody who even
[20:37] Speaker 3: intimated that they might be willing to vote for him,
[20:39] Speaker 3: they had their name scribbled down. And on advance polls,
[20:42] Speaker 3: election days, there were hundreds of vehicles busing these people
[20:46] Speaker 3: to the polling stations. That's hard, hard work. And you
[20:52] Speaker 3: know what? Nothing to begrudge. I mean, it's good. If
[20:55] Speaker 3: you want to be the mayor or even a councillor,
[20:58] Speaker 3: you need to put in that extra work, that extra effort,
[21:01] Speaker 3: because that then shows. So, yeah, a big part of
[21:05] Speaker 3: that with Fred Francis, that could have been part of
[21:08] Speaker 3: it as well. But I guess later we're going to
[21:13] Speaker 3: talk a bit about Drew Dilkens and some of his weaknesses,
[21:15] Speaker 3: so I won't go there right now. But I love
[21:19] Speaker 3: that Kat got so many votes. Yes, she came in
[21:22] Speaker 3: third with 7,000 votes. 7,000 votes for a third place
[21:28] Speaker 3: candidate in this type of an election is huge. If
[21:32] Speaker 3: we're going to hold Fred to account, hopefully on his
[21:35] Speaker 3: community engagement promises, Kat came up with lots of ideas.
[21:40] Speaker 3: There's other candidates who didn't win, who came to the
[21:44] Speaker 3: table or came to doors with great new ideas. And
[21:49] Speaker 3: it would be lovely to see some of those ideas
[21:53] Speaker 3: sort of tackled. And just sneak in one of the
[21:57] Speaker 3: weaknesses of Drew Dilkens is there were so many– great
[22:02] Speaker 3: plans and ideas that people brought to his door that
[22:04] Speaker 3: he just ignored. That was a real downer to me
[22:09] Speaker 3: and to a lot of people. You know, there was
[22:13] Speaker 3: a lot of progressive things that eventually came to flourish
[22:17] Speaker 3: in Windsor, but it took many years of just batting
[22:21] Speaker 3: down the door at the mayor's office so um you
[22:25] Speaker 3: know super promising um you know what just because it
[22:28] Speaker 3: wasn't fred francis's idea and he came with a lot
[22:31] Speaker 3: of ideas but uh it would be nice to see
[22:34] Speaker 3: some of those other things especially what cat was saying
[22:37] Speaker 3: uh you know being uh sort of embraced or entertained
[22:42] Speaker 3: at least.
[22:43] Speaker 1: Well he did say he did say he was going
[22:45] Speaker 1: to listen i mean that's he really did his campaign
[22:49] Speaker 1: definitely took a different, took an approach that he would
[22:54] Speaker 1: be taking a different approach as mayor. And that's one
[22:57] Speaker 1: of the things that he knew was a weakness, or
[23:00] Speaker 1: at least perceived so by a lot of people in
[23:02] Speaker 1: terms of, you know, who Drew Dilkens was and the
[23:07] Speaker 1: style that he had in the kind of leadership that
[23:10] Speaker 1: he had. I want to go to Sartori for a
[23:12] Speaker 1: minute on the campaign philosophy. You know, I just find,
[23:18] Speaker 1: and I think this was true with Chris Holt's campaign
[23:21] Speaker 1: in the last run too, people who do want to
[23:24] Speaker 1: change and are not happy with the status quo have
[23:27] Speaker 1: a more motivated volunteer base, right? I think that it's
[23:33] Speaker 1: harder to sort of keep somebody in and get your
[23:36] Speaker 1: volunteers going to the door for the same guy who's
[23:40] Speaker 1: been there for 12 years. I think that there can
[23:42] Speaker 1: be passion on both sides. But there's something very special
[23:45] Speaker 1: about folks who really want to change and are fighting
[23:48] Speaker 1: for something.
[23:49] Speaker 2: Doug, thoughts on that?
[23:52] Speaker 7: I think you can look at the photos from the
[23:57] Speaker 7: launch of Fred's campaign. to get a sense of how
[24:01] Speaker 7: broad the interest was across the political spectrum in having
[24:07] Speaker 7: a change. And you can be cynical about that or
[24:11] Speaker 7: you can look at it a different way. And I
[24:13] Speaker 7: think that it's a blend of things. I think in
[24:16] Speaker 7: some cases... Folks had their kind of their finger in
[24:20] Speaker 7: the air and were thinking this is an opportunity for
[24:23] Speaker 7: change and I'm going to throw my weight behind that
[24:25] Speaker 7: opportunity for change. But I also think that, you know,
[24:30] Speaker 7: Fred Francis has credibility. He has the credibility even at
[24:35] Speaker 7: the outset of the campaign. It's, you know, he has
[24:39] Speaker 7: a name that has heft.
[24:40] Speaker 3: Right.
[24:41] Speaker 7: He has the 12 years of experience. This is this
[24:44] Speaker 7: is a campaign that people have been waiting for. You know,
[24:46] Speaker 7: people thought Fred was going to run in 22 and
[24:50] Speaker 7: maybe Fred thought he was going to run in 22.
[24:52] Speaker 7: And here and here he is, you know, this. this
[24:55] Speaker 7: long anticipated and long expected Francis campaign. And I think
[24:59] Speaker 7: that the surname doesn't hurt at all either. Um, you know,
[25:03] Speaker 7: all of those things together, um, I think did add
[25:06] Speaker 7: up to, um, more enthusiasm for Fred Francis or for
[25:11] Speaker 7: a campaign that could make a difference, you know, and,
[25:14] Speaker 7: and again, pointing to cat Pasquatch, like, I think she
[25:18] Speaker 7: proved something to people and some people felt that she
[25:22] Speaker 7: represented the kind of leadership that they wanted to see
[25:24] Speaker 7: and the kind of values that they wanted to see advanced.
[25:28] Speaker 7: And there was a lot of talk about potential vote
[25:31] Speaker 7: splitting in this election and a lot of talk about
[25:34] Speaker 7: the Pasquatch campaign being a.
[25:38] Speaker 3: Risk.
[25:39] Speaker 7: But I think what it actually turns out to be
[25:41] Speaker 7: is that the signs, the enthusiasm for her campaign that
[25:46] Speaker 7: we saw during the election, was in part an indication
[25:50] Speaker 7: of just how many people were ready for a change
[25:53] Speaker 7: and how many people were ready to look for something new,
[25:57] Speaker 7: you know. And anyway, that's kind of where I'm landing
[26:01] Speaker 7: on that.
[26:02] Speaker 1: I'm going to come back to the Fred and Drew
[26:05] Speaker 1: thing in a moment. But because you mentioned Kat, let's
[26:07] Speaker 1: just take a look at her. I mean, she finished,
[26:09] Speaker 1: as we know, with 12% of the vote. before election day,
[26:13] Speaker 1: there was speculation and folks were saying on social media,
[26:18] Speaker 1: whether she could influence the outcome by vote splitting. In
[26:22] Speaker 1: your view, Doug Sartori, is it fair to say that
[26:25] Speaker 1: she didn't split anyone's vote or rather that.
[26:27] Speaker 2: It didn't matter?
[26:30] Speaker 7: You know, I'm looking at the results of the 2014
[26:34] Speaker 7: municipal election right now. And, uh, Drew Dilkin's got 32,000 votes.
[26:39] Speaker 7: John Milson got 15,800. And Larry Horowitz got 12% of
[26:43] Speaker 7: the vote, 7,293. So I think actually there is something
[26:50] Speaker 7: structural in this result in that a viable three-way race
[26:54] Speaker 7: is going to land somewhere in this neighborhood.
[26:58] Speaker 2: I think....
[27:01] Speaker 7: If the election had been closer, the strong support for
[27:06] Speaker 7: Cat Pasquatch would absolutely have made a difference. I mean,
[27:09] Speaker 7: vote splitting is a reality. We see it every time
[27:12] Speaker 7: there is an open seat and we see 10, 11,
[27:14] Speaker 7: 12 candidates pile into a ward. you recognize how those
[27:20] Speaker 7: dynamics are going to impact the conduct of the race
[27:24] Speaker 7: and the outcome of the race because votes are getting
[27:26] Speaker 7: split every which way. And it's harder for the electorate
[27:30] Speaker 7: to read the signals and understand how to cast their
[27:33] Speaker 7: vote to get the outcome that they want. And, you know,
[27:36] Speaker 7: all of that is in play in a three-way race
[27:39] Speaker 7: for mayor. So it didn't turn out to be material
[27:43] Speaker 7: in the, you know, If your objective was to see
[27:45] Speaker 7: the end of Drew Dilkins, voting for Cat or Fred
[27:48] Speaker 7: did not make a difference in this case. But I
[27:51] Speaker 7: think that is more because it was, you know, his
[27:57] Speaker 7: time had come. Drew's time had come. And I have
[27:58] Speaker 7: a couple ideas on why the reasons for that. But
[28:01] Speaker 7: Drew's time had come and he was going to be gone,
[28:05] Speaker 7: whether there were two or one alternative that people considered.
[28:11] Speaker 2: I want to stay with Kat for a moment.
[28:12] Speaker 1: Kristen, you know, I think in my view, and I
[28:15] Speaker 1: don't know if you agree with me, that her vote
[28:17] Speaker 1: really seems to have been what I'm going to call
[28:20] Speaker 1: an independent expression of voter preference. Like she drew in
[28:24] Speaker 1: a vote that was not having anything that the other
[28:27] Speaker 1: two main candidates were bringing to the table.
[28:34] Speaker 2: If you agree with me, and I don't know that
[28:35] Speaker 2: you do, what do you.
[28:36] Speaker 1: Think that tells us about the appetite for actually an
[28:38] Speaker 1: alternative to what we saw in the two leading candidates?
[28:43] Speaker 4: Well, I'll stop short of saying that it's an accurate
[28:46] Speaker 4: reflection of appetite because I think that there was probably
[28:49] Speaker 4: a strong appetite for the things that Kat represented in
[28:56] Speaker 4: terms of values. The problem was, I think she had
[28:59] Speaker 4: like a right message, wrong time, right message, wrong candidate
[29:04] Speaker 4: kind of match where Kat She just didn't have the
[29:06] Speaker 4: political experience. She was very new. She appeared to be
[29:10] Speaker 4: a very risky candidate. She had sort of a refreshing
[29:15] Speaker 4: directness in her speech and in her presentation. But that
[29:22] Speaker 4: sometimes scares people off too. So I can see how
[29:26] Speaker 4: that would be, you know, she was certainly there to
[29:28] Speaker 4: shake things up and for people who are looking for that,
[29:31] Speaker 4: it can be very welcome. But I think that for
[29:34] Speaker 4: people who were looking for change, there were probably still
[29:37] Speaker 4: plenty that, and the numbers, appear to suggest that there
[29:41] Speaker 4: were still plenty who were looking for change, but not
[29:44] Speaker 4: that much change. And that's, I think that if she
[29:46] Speaker 4: had been, um, closer to a more, uh, experienced candidate,
[29:53] Speaker 4: a more, a more, um, I don't know, somebody whose
[29:57] Speaker 4: name was, was in, she was on council or she
[30:01] Speaker 4: was in the public eye a little bit more. We
[30:03] Speaker 4: might've seen some stronger numbers there. But I don't think
[30:07] Speaker 4: that it's an accurate reflection of that appetite because that,
[30:09] Speaker 4: that changed, a lot of those change votes went to Fred.
[30:12] Speaker 2: Interesting.
[30:13] Speaker 1: Getting back to those guys then, Dawn, bringing you in here,
[30:17] Speaker 1: because you said that was the biggest surprise of the
[30:19] Speaker 1: night and you not even, you didn't even think it
[30:21] Speaker 1: was really going to be close, but now using your
[30:23] Speaker 1: sort of, you know, a retrospective look now that you
[30:27] Speaker 1: know what happened. Was there, in your view, can you
[30:31] Speaker 1: look back at that campaign and think about was there
[30:34] Speaker 1: a moment in time where you feel that that election
[30:39] Speaker 1: took a shift given what the results were? Or somebody said,
[30:46] Speaker 1: and I'm not sure, it might have been Sartori, that
[30:49] Speaker 1: it was doomed from the beginning, really. didn't matter who,
[30:54] Speaker 1: any credible candidate could have come forward and offered, maybe
[30:59] Speaker 1: not as risky as a cat pasquatch and somebody who
[31:03] Speaker 1: didn't have experience, but generally it could have been one
[31:06] Speaker 1: of those other counselors or another former counselor, someone in
[31:10] Speaker 1: that vein that, or was it specifically Fred Francis?
[31:13] Speaker 2: Thoughts on that, Dawn?
[31:15] Speaker 6: Well, like Kristen had said earlier, I also don't like
[31:18] Speaker 6: to admit I was wrong. I just think of it
[31:19] Speaker 6: as alternate facts like the Trump administration uses. So I'm
[31:22] Speaker 6: going to stick with that argument. You know, and Kat,
[31:26] Speaker 6: you know, I think something Kat brought to the table,
[31:30] Speaker 6: which really hurt Drew that maybe a little bit is
[31:34] Speaker 6: flying under the radar. You know, I went to the
[31:36] Speaker 6: debate the chamber held, and that's really the first time
[31:39] Speaker 6: I'd heard anything from Kat. And just the way She
[31:43] Speaker 6: spoke about, she was going to be inclusive. She was
[31:46] Speaker 6: going to talk to people. She was going to talk
[31:47] Speaker 6: to the community. I know Fred was doing some of that,
[31:49] Speaker 6: but he's been there for a long time. He says
[31:51] Speaker 6: bullshit all the time, but she brought that up. And
[31:54] Speaker 6: I think what that really did is it reminded people
[31:59] Speaker 6: that Drew's, look, I voted for Drew every time he ran.
[32:03] Speaker 6: So I'm just going to put that out there right now. So,
[32:04] Speaker 6: you know, if he wants to fight me in the alley,
[32:06] Speaker 6: you know, that's fine. I think Drew's problem was, and
[32:10] Speaker 6: it finally came to a head in this election, and
[32:12] Speaker 6: with Cat running it, he didn't emphasize it a little
[32:15] Speaker 6: bit more, is really his personality, the way he handles objections. Like,
[32:20] Speaker 6: you know, Doug Schmidt was saying, you had to go
[32:22] Speaker 6: knock on his door 50 times and get through the
[32:24] Speaker 6: double doors because God knows everybody's, you know, coming at him.
[32:28] Speaker 6: I think it really crystallized just the style of politician
[32:32] Speaker 6: that Drew is. And I think people, even with, you know,
[32:36] Speaker 6: we can... Unfortunately, we associate way too much stuff with
[32:39] Speaker 6: the Trump world these days. But even on that level,
[32:41] Speaker 6: it's a little bit condescending. It's a, I'm right, you're wrong.
[32:45] Speaker 6: I'm the smartest guy in the room. That's a dumb idea.
[32:47] Speaker 6: I'm not even going to consider it. And I think
[32:50] Speaker 6: in this election, having Kat there, like I say, it
[32:54] Speaker 6: emphasized that. And I think it really hurt him. I
[32:57] Speaker 6: don't really feel like Drew's heart was 100% in this.
[33:02] Speaker 6: I didn't even think he was going to run, to
[33:03] Speaker 6: be honest. I didn't think he was going to run
[33:05] Speaker 6: last time. Cause you know, he said he was only
[33:07] Speaker 6: going to run for two terms or on term number four.
[33:10] Speaker 6: So I think I feel, I don't know, maybe he
[33:13] Speaker 6: just needed a job. I don't know. He didn't know
[33:16] Speaker 6: what else to do. I feel like he, you know,
[33:18] Speaker 6: he ran and he either thought he was going to
[33:20] Speaker 6: win handily like I thought he was. And, or he just,
[33:25] Speaker 6: you know, I'm doing this because really I don't really
[33:27] Speaker 6: have any other options right now. And you know, why
[33:30] Speaker 6: not stick around for another four years? So I think,
[33:32] Speaker 6: you know, The easy thing for the voters is if
[33:36] Speaker 6: you're not on the far left side where Kat would be,
[33:39] Speaker 6: and I will admit, I talked to my son afterwards and,
[33:42] Speaker 6: you know, he said he voted for, so I immediately
[33:44] Speaker 6: took him out of the will. If you didn't want
[33:46] Speaker 6: to go that far left and you still wanted to
[33:49] Speaker 6: kind of stay middle of the road, and maybe you
[33:50] Speaker 6: don't like Drew's personality, but you don't disagree with the
[33:53] Speaker 6: way he was doing things, you know, Fred was the
[33:56] Speaker 6: easy choice. So I think it's easy to jump over
[33:58] Speaker 6: and say, you know what, I'm going to vote for Fred.
[34:00] Speaker 6: And I think if Kat wasn't there, I think the
[34:01] Speaker 6: numbers in retrospect, I don't think Cat took any numbers
[34:05] Speaker 6: away from Fred. I actually think Fred would have won
[34:08] Speaker 6: even more handily if she wasn't in the race because
[34:11] Speaker 6: those votes for her, like my kid was not going
[34:14] Speaker 6: to vote for Drew. So they would have all shifted,
[34:16] Speaker 6: I think, to Fred. And I think Fred would have
[34:18] Speaker 6: won even bigger. So it's interesting. The outcome came out
[34:22] Speaker 6: like it is. And it just something this whole campaign
[34:24] Speaker 6: with the Drew campaign, to me personally, something felt off.
[34:27] Speaker 6: And I really can't describe what it is because I'm
[34:30] Speaker 6: not sure what it was.
[34:33] Speaker 1: I'd be interested to see what the demographic was for
[34:35] Speaker 1: Kat's vote because I spoke to a lot of young people,
[34:38] Speaker 1: I have to say, especially young women. In fact, I
[34:42] Speaker 1: don't know that I know personally any young women who didn't.
[34:45] Speaker 2: Vote for her.
[34:46] Speaker 1: She drew a very, very specific demographic in addition to,
[34:50] Speaker 1: and I'm also interested in whether some of them were
[34:53] Speaker 1: first-time voters. Doug, just a couple more questions on the
[34:56] Speaker 1: mayor race and then we'll move on to some of
[34:58] Speaker 1: the ward races as well. But, you know, every election
[35:02] Speaker 1: does produce a story about what voters were trying to say.
[35:05] Speaker 1: And sometimes I think we do confuse the result with
[35:08] Speaker 1: the explanation. You know, so if we take a look
[35:11] Speaker 1: at Dilkens' loss, do we automatically assume that voters rejected
[35:16] Speaker 1: his policies? Do we assume that it was Francis' policies
[35:21] Speaker 1: that people preferred?
[35:23] Speaker 2: And as you mentioned, it's very.
[35:25] Speaker 1: Difficult to see even what the distinction is, although I
[35:27] Speaker 1: know that their platforms did have certain things that were
[35:31] Speaker 1: different overall, you know, those first few years, they were
[35:35] Speaker 1: in lockstep and in alignment while they were, while Drew
[35:38] Speaker 1: was in the mayor's chair and Fred was on council.
[35:42] Speaker 1: I guess what I'm asking is, is this, was this
[35:46] Speaker 1: about issues specifically, perhaps a combination, or really was it
[35:51] Speaker 1: about perhaps governing style? We've referred to Drew and part of,
[35:57] Speaker 1: you know, how he's perceived by the electorate.
[36:01] Speaker 2: Was it about approach?
[36:08] Speaker 3: If you're asking me, absolutely. Approach was everything here. I
[36:13] Speaker 3: think a huge misstep from Drew was when he just
[36:19] Speaker 3: randomly threw out there about four units as a bright.
[36:25] Speaker 3: Just telling voters, challenge your candidates. Who's against four units
[36:30] Speaker 3: for right as I am? And then he doubled down
[36:33] Speaker 3: on something that's made people uncomfortable, which is the strong
[36:37] Speaker 3: mayor's powers that he's been using quite liberally, more so
[36:42] Speaker 3: than any other mayor in Ontario. That had some people
[36:47] Speaker 3: feeling uncomfortable. You know, the four units as of right.
[36:54] Speaker 3: where he said, well, if council does this, I'm going
[36:56] Speaker 3: to vote against it using my strong mayor powers. And
[37:00] Speaker 3: the proof was in the pudding with the tunnel bus.
[37:03] Speaker 3: Majority council, regardless of what you thought of it, majority
[37:06] Speaker 3: council said, let's keep the tunnel bus to Detroit. And
[37:10] Speaker 3: Drew made a very strong point that, OK, I'm vetoing this.
[37:14] Speaker 3: This is not going to happen. I think that made
[37:18] Speaker 3: people a little concerned. And then voting for Fred. I mean,
[37:23] Speaker 3: you're voting for Drew's policies just without the, you know,
[37:27] Speaker 3: that stormtrooper approach to getting things done. I think that
[37:32] Speaker 3: was just, I think Drew just came on a bit
[37:34] Speaker 3: too strong on that part. And that's what got people
[37:38] Speaker 3: a little nervous and concerned and said, okay, let's give
[37:43] Speaker 3: Fred a shot here.
[37:47] Speaker 7: You know, I think there are two things that I
[37:49] Speaker 7: point to, having considered this for a few days. One
[37:55] Speaker 7: is is the Drew Dilkens was looking for a job
[38:00] Speaker 7: in the last term. And, you know, that became public information.
[38:07] Speaker 7: And he indicated that he would have left the mayor's
[38:10] Speaker 7: chair to to pursue that job. And I think that's
[38:15] Speaker 7: one that, you know, you accumulate as a politician and
[38:19] Speaker 7: You accumulate so many different little items of baggage and,
[38:23] Speaker 7: you know, people say they, you know, they turn off
[38:25] Speaker 7: of you for this reason or that reason or the
[38:27] Speaker 7: other reason. And there is an infinite number of things happening.
[38:30] Speaker 7: that upset people. But I think that self-interest in a
[38:33] Speaker 7: politician is something that really turns people off. And so
[38:37] Speaker 7: I point to that, the, you know, the indication that
[38:40] Speaker 7: he was ready to leave the city in the lurch
[38:42] Speaker 7: halfway through the job because something better came along and
[38:46] Speaker 7: then it didn't materialize. So he stuck around and in
[38:48] Speaker 7: fact asked for another mandate. And also I think that
[38:52] Speaker 7: having a family member hired at the city in the
[38:55] Speaker 7: previous term was a bridge too far. I think you
[38:57] Speaker 7: put those two things together And, you know, there are
[39:03] Speaker 7: so many things that the average guy on the street
[39:06] Speaker 7: is not plugged into, is not necessarily thinking deeply about,
[39:09] Speaker 7: you know, this policy or that policy or what the,
[39:13] Speaker 7: you know, what the goings on, what time councils meetings
[39:16] Speaker 7: are or whatever. But those are two really simple things
[39:20] Speaker 7: that if you're paying attention to that extent that you
[39:23] Speaker 7: know both of those facts, does that make you feel
[39:26] Speaker 7: like this guy's in it for you and is in
[39:28] Speaker 7: it for the city or is he in it for himself?
[39:31] Speaker 1: You know i thought that when um it's interesting because
[39:34] Speaker 1: it's maybe not one thing right like anybody could be
[39:38] Speaker 1: i have friends who uh two two friends specifically who
[39:41] Speaker 1: their big thing they were voting for drew on the
[39:45] Speaker 1: basis of what happened in the firing of jason raynard
[39:48] Speaker 1: So if you take a look at a 12-year record, right,
[39:51] Speaker 1: and you can just sort of pick one thing that's
[39:55] Speaker 1: just unforgivable. And I think you're right. The hiring of
[39:59] Speaker 1: the spouse at City Hall was one that was broadly known.
[40:02] Speaker 1: I mean, some issues are more.
[40:06] Speaker 2: Picked up by people who are really watching.
[40:09] Speaker 1: I mean, most people, right, day in, day out, their
[40:11] Speaker 1: lives are not focused on, you know, who's in administration.
[40:17] Speaker 1: But I think the hiring of the mayor's wife is
[40:19] Speaker 1: something that resonated, you know, through the community. I always
[40:23] Speaker 1: get my information from my cab drivers. And I remember
[40:26] Speaker 1: once being in a cab and that was like the
[40:28] Speaker 1: topic of conversation. So like that, it's almost like the doors,
[40:31] Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, what's resonating with people.
[40:34] Speaker 1: So in my view, the other issue that to me
[40:38] Speaker 1: was a misstep, and I've mentioned it before, was during
[40:43] Speaker 1: the campaign when that video came out, and the words
[40:48] Speaker 1: were uttered, Freddie isn't ready. That to me was sort
[40:53] Speaker 1: of a bully approach to, you know, he doesn't go
[40:58] Speaker 1: by Freddie, first of all. So just that tactic was
[41:02] Speaker 1: a reminder of some of the things that people, even
[41:06] Speaker 1: if you were not convinced that you wanted to park
[41:09] Speaker 1: your vote with Fred and might be willing to say,
[41:13] Speaker 1: you know, the status quo is fine with Drew, it
[41:17] Speaker 1: brings back sort of, this is the thing that I
[41:19] Speaker 1: don't like, right? This is the thing that I don't like. Um,
[41:22] Speaker 1: somebody wanted to jump in here. I'm not sure who
[41:23] Speaker 1: laid their hand there.
[41:26] Speaker 4: I was going to say, I think it's, it's one
[41:28] Speaker 4: of the issues as well, uh, that, that really captured
[41:31] Speaker 4: people's attention was the, it was interesting to me that
[41:36] Speaker 4: we saw it on, on Drew's campaign material, as well as,
[41:39] Speaker 4: as Fred's was the idea of addressing some of the
[41:41] Speaker 4: problems that are downtown. And I wonder more so.
[41:47] Speaker 5: Than no, I think that that.
[41:50] Speaker 4: If those issues haven't been addressed yet, if those issues,
[41:54] Speaker 4: if you are a voter who has never cared about downtown,
[41:58] Speaker 4: but it's really getting to the point where you're like.
[42:00] Speaker 5: Geez, like I can't go two steps in this city.
[42:02] Speaker 4: Without tripping over somebody who's experiencing homelessness or in active
[42:06] Speaker 4: addiction or having a problem or like whatever it is,
[42:09] Speaker 4: if that has become to the point where that problem
[42:12] Speaker 4: has become so huge that it's at the point where
[42:13] Speaker 4: people who don't live in the core are really complaining
[42:17] Speaker 4: about it and noticing it, are those not also the
[42:20] Speaker 4: people who are going, yeah, but you've been here for
[42:22] Speaker 4: 12 years and it's only gotten worse. Like those people
[42:25] Speaker 4: have no patience for, for these long-term solutions. We all
[42:29] Speaker 4: know how complicated it is to try and solve this
[42:30] Speaker 4: problem and the various factors that have come into it.
[42:33] Speaker 5: And, and no matter how much money we.
[42:36] Speaker 4: Throw at strength in the core and whatever, we're not
[42:38] Speaker 4: actually getting to the core of the issue and it's
[42:40] Speaker 4: multiple levels of government and blah, blah, blah. But it
[42:43] Speaker 4: comes to the point where voters go, okay, well, you've
[42:46] Speaker 4: had your turn. I guess somebody else should have a
[42:48] Speaker 4: try at this. And I wonder if it's not, you know,
[42:50] Speaker 4: some of those issues that, that were issues 12 years
[42:54] Speaker 4: ago that have only gotten worse. And we're just going,
[42:57] Speaker 4: you know what, we're fed up with it now.
[43:00] Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, something I think that really happened in
[43:02] Speaker 6: this election on that topic is, you know, I live
[43:07] Speaker 6: not right downtown, but close enough where I can see
[43:09] Speaker 6: all the chaos and the horribleness that's down there. But
[43:13] Speaker 6: it's really spread throughout the city. I mean, my friends
[43:15] Speaker 6: who live on the East End, South Windsor friends, you know,
[43:18] Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera, they see it in their neighborhoods now.
[43:21] Speaker 6: And I think even, you know, I think Doug Schmidt
[43:24] Speaker 6: brought it up earlier that, you know, Fred really didn't
[43:26] Speaker 6: give a rat's ass about the downtown for a long time.
[43:28] Speaker 6: He just thought about it as another ward, as was said.
[43:31] Speaker 6: And now, you know, he doubled down on it this time,
[43:34] Speaker 6: like he's going to make a big deal out of
[43:36] Speaker 6: it and make change. But it's when it started showing
[43:39] Speaker 6: up in other neighborhoods, it became a bigger issue. So
[43:42] Speaker 6: I think that part resonated with all voters, not just,
[43:46] Speaker 6: you know, your people downtown who would have, you know,
[43:48] Speaker 6: been at the epicenter of the mess it's it's everywhere
[43:51] Speaker 6: now and that that changes things well that's.
[43:54] Speaker 1: Pretty sad because really you know people don't care unless
[43:57] Speaker 1: it hits my neighborhood is is what do we say
[44:01] Speaker 1: about that um i've always been the view that the
[44:04] Speaker 1: downtown is a heart of a community of a city
[44:07] Speaker 1: and is a reflection of the entire city of why
[44:09] Speaker 1: people would want to live there why people would want
[44:10] Speaker 1: to visit there etc so for me i'm okay with
[44:13] Speaker 1: somebody in ward 9 or ward 7 you know saying
[44:18] Speaker 1: um you know, I care about downtown because it's a
[44:21] Speaker 1: representative of my city and I care about the people
[44:23] Speaker 1: down there. It's another thing to say, well, now your
[44:26] Speaker 1: shit has come into my neighborhood. So now I care,
[44:28] Speaker 1: but okay. That's just my little rant for a moment.
[44:31] Speaker 2: Before we move on to the, to the ward candidates though,
[44:33] Speaker 2: I just want to pick up on this because I
[44:35] Speaker 2: find it ironic. I'll tell you this.
[44:37] Speaker 1: I pay close attention to their platforms on downtown because downtown,
[44:42] Speaker 1: whether you call it, you know, I think Fred called
[44:45] Speaker 1: it revitalization and, pretty prominently on his campaign literature.
[44:50] Speaker 2: And I live in, in war three.
[44:52] Speaker 1: So when I got the piece, I actually asked friends,
[44:54] Speaker 1: I said, did you get a piece where downtown revitalization
[44:58] Speaker 1: was like the first thing on the piece, or am I.
[45:00] Speaker 2: Getting a different, you know, targeted piece?
[45:04] Speaker 1: And if, you know, it was a big part of
[45:06] Speaker 1: his platform, but I want to come back to what
[45:08] Speaker 1: Doug said. He was not exactly, you know, there for
[45:12] Speaker 1: the solutions in the first most part of his, part
[45:17] Speaker 1: on council. So as much as we want to say
[45:19] Speaker 1: Drew wasn't able to solve the problems, by the way,
[45:21] Speaker 1: I don't think anybody can solve all the problems, but
[45:24] Speaker 1: in terms of giving the right attention in the first
[45:26] Speaker 1: 12 or the 12 years that he had there, you know,
[45:32] Speaker 1: we did also see a record, maybe didn't pay as
[45:35] Speaker 1: much attention to what Fred was saying about downtown. I
[45:39] Speaker 1: find it a little ironic because I found that the mayor,
[45:42] Speaker 1: Drew Dilkin's platform, incumbent mayor candidate was the strongest it
[45:48] Speaker 1: had ever been on downtown in this particular election um
[45:53] Speaker 1: i think to be honest with you it was he
[45:56] Speaker 1: finally kind of got it um and i guess too
[45:59] Speaker 1: little too late is is i guess what we can
[46:01] Speaker 1: say about that but before we wrap it up and
[46:02] Speaker 1: go to wards is there an issue right because we're
[46:07] Speaker 1: talking about approach and people what was resonating with fred
[46:11] Speaker 1: was there was going to be sort of a different
[46:13] Speaker 1: approach to how council is run and and what that
[46:16] Speaker 1: mayor's office looks like, were there any issues that Fred
[46:20] Speaker 1: put forward that differentiated him from Drew in such a
[46:24] Speaker 1: significant way that other than, or maybe including strong mayor powers,
[46:30] Speaker 1: that people are saying that's my policy issue and that's
[46:35] Speaker 1: why I voted?
[46:35] Speaker 3: Can I just, sorry, it's maybe a little tangential to
[46:41] Speaker 3: what you were just saying, but I'm looking at the clock.
[46:47] Speaker 3: When Fred and his campaign platforms, you know, a lot
[46:52] Speaker 3: of it's airy-fairy stuff like, you know, typical boilerplate for
[46:56] Speaker 3: any candidate for mayor. But, you know, when he says
[46:59] Speaker 3: he wants visible police patrols for every neighborhood in the city, well,
[47:03] Speaker 3: at the same time, he doesn't want to increase taxes.
[47:06] Speaker 3: Those two don't square. That doesn't happen. As a taxpayer
[47:11] Speaker 3: and as a resident and as a citizen here in Windsor,
[47:15] Speaker 3: I don't want police patrolling Pallet Village and Forest Glade
[47:21] Speaker 3: and Southwood Lakes. I want them patrolling the places that
[47:25] Speaker 3: are problem areas for crime. And like it or not, Fred,
[47:28] Speaker 3: that's downtown. You know, get over that. You know, the
[47:34] Speaker 3: downtown needs that kind of attention. And otherwise, just don't see,
[47:40] Speaker 3: you know, the police are the number one, you know,
[47:43] Speaker 3: money store. spending slice of the pie when it comes
[47:48] Speaker 3: to the budget, which is going to have to be
[47:49] Speaker 3: addressed soon. So there was that. Another piece of the
[47:53] Speaker 3: puzzle that I didn't get with him is when he
[47:56] Speaker 3: talks about no more costly legacy projects, but at the
[48:01] Speaker 3: same time, we're going to have to deal with a
[48:03] Speaker 3: new downtown library in the next term. Again, that doesn't square. Yeah,
[48:11] Speaker 3: I was just recently in Calgary for a long spell
[48:13] Speaker 3: and their library in their downtown is just dreamy. It
[48:19] Speaker 3: did cost a third of a billion dollars. Obviously, we're
[48:22] Speaker 3: not going to get there. But I do want a
[48:26] Speaker 3: library in the core of my city to be a
[48:29] Speaker 3: legacy project. I do want it to be something that's
[48:33] Speaker 3: iconic and I do want it to be a place
[48:35] Speaker 3: where people can gather, where the community gets together, where
[48:39] Speaker 3: the community launches arts and creativeness and just meeting. And
[48:45] Speaker 3: I worry that the current mayor, just like the departing mayor,
[48:51] Speaker 3: they see public gathering spots as hard things to avoid
[48:55] Speaker 3: because that's where all the druggies are going to hang out.
[48:59] Speaker 3: And so those two things are difficult for me to square.
[49:06] Speaker 3: But he's willing to listen to the community. That was
[49:08] Speaker 3: another of his pledges. So hopefully the community is going
[49:10] Speaker 3: to address some of those things. Anyway, that was my rant.
[49:15] Speaker 6: So Doug, I think, you know, the community has to
[49:17] Speaker 6: take responsibility for themselves because personally, I have four ex-Massad
[49:20] Speaker 6: agents around my house at 24 hours a day. So
[49:23] Speaker 6: I think really people should just take security into their
[49:25] Speaker 6: own hands at this point.
[49:28] Speaker 1: It's interesting what you said, Doug, about, as I just
[49:31] Speaker 1: totally ignored on, interesting what you said about that because
[49:35] Speaker 1: that is, it's interesting.
[49:37] Speaker 2: Here's what I find interesting about it. We hear the.
[49:40] Speaker 1: Concerns, perhaps people at the door knocking in other ridings
[49:45] Speaker 1: are concerned about maybe property crimes and certain things. And
[49:50] Speaker 1: so are indicating that, hey, we also need a police presence.
[49:55] Speaker 1: So this is, you know, this combination of I'm listening
[49:58] Speaker 1: to everybody and they feel like they would need to have,
[50:03] Speaker 1: police presence too. But then when you take a look
[50:06] Speaker 1: at what that looks like for the sake of.
[50:08] Speaker 2: Pleasing the.
[50:10] Speaker 1: Appearance of police presence in neighborhoods that are not needed
[50:13] Speaker 1: and actually maybe taking resources away for where they are,
[50:17] Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that I think at
[50:20] Speaker 1: some point when the maturity comes of having to govern
[50:24] Speaker 1: as opposed to putting something on a campaign platform or
[50:28] Speaker 1: speaking about it, we're going and maybe that's how we'll
[50:31] Speaker 1: wrap up the show a little bit about like what
[50:32] Speaker 1: comes next, you know, where are the trade-offs going to
[50:35] Speaker 1: be in some of these really big sort of promises
[50:39] Speaker 1: that are being made out there and, and not be
[50:43] Speaker 1: able to sort of put it all in a balanced
[50:45] Speaker 1: budget and without doing it without raising taxes and all,
[50:48] Speaker 1: all the things.
[50:49] Speaker 2: It's very interesting.
[50:50] Speaker 1: Anything anybody wants to add before we move on to
[50:52] Speaker 1: some council races here?
[50:55] Speaker 2: All right.
[50:55] Speaker 6: I was just going to say real quick. So a
[50:58] Speaker 6: friend of mine, I'm not going to bring up Mossad agents.
[51:02] Speaker 6: A friend of mine is a police officer and he
[51:03] Speaker 6: has the proposals that Fred has talked about. They've budgeted
[51:08] Speaker 6: for this stuff and they put proposals out for more
[51:10] Speaker 6: police downtown and it's millions and millions and millions of dollars.
[51:14] Speaker 6: So to go back to Mr. Schmidt's comment, and I
[51:17] Speaker 6: agree with him, like he put out some promises that
[51:19] Speaker 6: are expensive and I don't know how he's going to
[51:20] Speaker 6: cover them because they also said he's not going to
[51:22] Speaker 6: raise taxes. So it's not like these were unknown ideas
[51:25] Speaker 6: and unknown numbers.
[51:27] Speaker 3: Right.
[51:28] Speaker 2: The numbers on that particular one are very large. But anyway.
[51:32] Speaker 2: All right, let's go on.
[51:33] Speaker 3: Well, what bothers me about that is Fred knows that.
[51:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[51:38] Speaker 3: And yet he still threw that out there.
[51:41] Speaker 4: I want to throw something out there and maybe this
[51:43] Speaker 4: will be our transition to the council races conversation, but
[51:47] Speaker 4: there's a lot of wishes in, in Fred's platform. And,
[51:51] Speaker 4: and as we've said, like, there's not, not a great
[51:53] Speaker 4: match between like, I would love to provide all of
[51:56] Speaker 4: these things. Let me get you better transit and a
[51:58] Speaker 4: downtown library and all these things.
[51:59] Speaker 5: And I promise I won't raise any taxes.
[52:02] Speaker 4: I think there are counselors coming in and counselors that
[52:05] Speaker 4: are on, on council that, that give me hope in
[52:08] Speaker 4: this respect, because I, Look at somebody, I know I've
[52:13] Speaker 4: brought it up on this program before, but Fraser Fathers
[52:15] Speaker 4: has given us things to pick on. He created an
[52:18] Speaker 4: entirely costed platform. He created a costed housing platform. I
[52:23] Speaker 4: have faith in people like him, people like Darcy Renaud,
[52:26] Speaker 4: who are excellent with numbers, breaking down, not just coming
[52:30] Speaker 4: to the table with passion and with good ideas, but
[52:32] Speaker 4: the ability to break it down and cost it out.
[52:36] Speaker 4: People like Ken Acton, who have that kind of acumen
[52:39] Speaker 4: as well.
[52:40] Speaker 5: I have faith in.
[52:43] Speaker 4: Fred's ability to deliver some of these big wish items
[52:47] Speaker 4: because there are people who have the facility with budget needs.
[52:52] Speaker 4: renegotiation that may be able to strike a balance that
[52:56] Speaker 4: help us achieve some of those things. So, you know,
[52:58] Speaker 4: people who are clever enough to put together a budget
[53:01] Speaker 4: that can help us deliver those things. And maybe Fred's
[53:05] Speaker 4: optimism will actually have a home in some of these
[53:08] Speaker 4: new counselors that will provide support to this plan. So
[53:11] Speaker 4: I have, again, very rare feeling for me, political hope
[53:14] Speaker 4: that I felt on Monday night.
[53:16] Speaker 5: Maybe we're all experiencing that over the next few years.
[53:18] Speaker 3: I can only hope.
[53:24] Speaker 2: I should unmute. Okay, let's switch over to ward races
[53:28] Speaker 2: for a moment.
[53:28] Speaker 1: We'll start with sort of a big, you know, big
[53:30] Speaker 1: picture question on anything that surprised us or anything that
[53:34] Speaker 1: interests us from the ward races and get into a
[53:36] Speaker 1: little bit more specifics.
[53:37] Speaker 2: But, you know, yes, sure, there's change at the top.
[53:42] Speaker 1: But whether there was change at the top or not,
[53:44] Speaker 1: there's definitely change around the council table.
[53:47] Speaker 2: And I agree with Kristen, if.
[53:48] Speaker 1: That's excitement that I hear in your voice, I think
[53:50] Speaker 1: that there's some really exciting stuff. on the possibility of
[53:54] Speaker 1: what that dynamic would look like, it'll be interesting to
[53:57] Speaker 1: see because I think it's going to evolve over time.
[54:00] Speaker 1: And there's nothing that we can say today that's actually
[54:02] Speaker 1: going to predict that because there's just, there's so many
[54:05] Speaker 1: moving parts to what that is, particularly when there's positioning
[54:10] Speaker 1: around what people want to get for their wards. And
[54:12] Speaker 1: we can even have a bigger, broader discussion about, you know,
[54:15] Speaker 1: whether the model we have in this ward representation, everybody
[54:19] Speaker 1: having their turf other municipalities do it differently.
[54:24] Speaker 2: Is that better? Whatever. But here we are.
[54:27] Speaker 1: Four seats were open before the election, and Chris.
[54:31] Speaker 2: Holt returns to the table in one of them.
[54:33] Speaker 1: But we'll have five new councillors that weren't part of
[54:36] Speaker 1: the previous council at the end of last term, including,
[54:40] Speaker 1: of course, the turnover in Wharton with Jim Morrison not
[54:46] Speaker 1: being successful in that election. So Let's start with you, Don.
[54:49] Speaker 1: I'll start with you.
[54:50] Speaker 2: Pick a ward.
[54:52] Speaker 1: What interesting story do you have in terms of a
[54:56] Speaker 1: ward result?
[54:59] Speaker 6: Well, to piggyback on my friend Kristen in the middle
[55:03] Speaker 6: over there, I'm going to say Ward 1. Now, look,
[55:06] Speaker 6: if you've listened to this show for the last 12,
[55:10] Speaker 6: 15 years that I've been on it, or ever since
[55:12] Speaker 6: Darcy's been running, I've been a supporter of hers from
[55:15] Speaker 6: day one. I think she's probably going to be the
[55:18] Speaker 6: smartest person around that table, even more so than her
[55:22] Speaker 6: chunky boyfriend, Kieran McKenzie.
[55:25] Speaker 3: Very rude, very rude.
[55:26] Speaker 4: Kieran McKenzie, I will help you write the hate mail.
[55:28] Speaker 4: I just want you to know I support you.
[55:30] Speaker 6: He knows where I live. It's fine. Actually, to what
[55:35] Speaker 6: Chris said, I think with Frazier being there, and look,
[55:37] Speaker 6: we all know Frazier. We've known Frazier for years. Frazier's
[55:40] Speaker 6: a very smart guy. Whether you like his policies or not,
[55:42] Speaker 6: that's irrelevant. He has numbers. He has data. He knows
[55:45] Speaker 6: how You know, he knows the actual context of issues
[55:49] Speaker 6: that he's bringing up. But I think Darcy winning in
[55:51] Speaker 6: Ward 1 finally, I think she would have been better
[55:54] Speaker 6: than Fred four years ago and eight years ago, is
[55:57] Speaker 6: going to be a big plus for the entire council chamber.
[56:01] Speaker 6: It's going to be a big plus for the Ward
[56:03] Speaker 6: 1 people. And to be honest, I will already make
[56:07] Speaker 6: a prediction going forward. She will be the next mayor
[56:11] Speaker 6: of this city after Fred is done.
[56:14] Speaker 2: Wow.
[56:15] Speaker 6: Hear, hear, hear, hear.
[56:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of like where you're going with this.
[56:18] Speaker 1: I have also said to folks, very, very capable. You know,
[56:24] Speaker 1: there's time. She's going to have some learning curve, maybe
[56:28] Speaker 1: not as much as others just because of her, how
[56:31] Speaker 1: much she's followed counsel in the years. But I'm not
[56:34] Speaker 1: far off on what you're thinking, Don. I think there's
[56:36] Speaker 1: a real possibility that there's something very, very special about Darcy.
[56:41] Speaker 1: I want to ask Kristen about Darcy, though, for a moment.
[56:43] Speaker 1: not so much about Darcy, but the fact that she's
[56:45] Speaker 1: the only woman elected. Like, what do we need to
[56:49] Speaker 1: make of that? From your perspective, you know.
[56:51] Speaker 4: Oh, you mean the abject despair of there still only
[56:55] Speaker 4: being one woman on campus?
[56:57] Speaker 5: Is that what you're looking for? On council?
[56:58] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, yes.
[57:00] Speaker 5: Well, we've reached our quota of one woman.
[57:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[57:03] Speaker 3: There we are.
[57:04] Speaker 1: Like, what does it say about women's representation in Windsor
[57:06] Speaker 1: politics that, you know, only one woman gets elected?
[57:09] Speaker 3: Well.
[57:12] Speaker 4: What does it say about anybody's representation? Like, what does
[57:16] Speaker 4: representation mean in Windsor? Stand in that council room, even
[57:20] Speaker 4: the new council, and look around. Does that accurately reflect
[57:25] Speaker 4: Windsor's population in any way?
[57:28] Speaker 5: We talk about voter turnout. I'll tell you who the
[57:31] Speaker 5: other 70% are.
[57:33] Speaker 4: Every woman and person of color.
[57:37] Speaker 4: Who is not getting elected right now?
[57:40] Speaker 5: It is the people who are actually living in the
[57:42] Speaker 5: city of Windsor. I'm going to throw that out there.
[57:44] Speaker 4: Yes, it is absolutely abysmal that only one woman get elected.
[57:48] Speaker 4: We have I will leave it to our sisters over
[57:51] Speaker 4: at Wow Politics. And we often talk about them as
[57:54] Speaker 4: the other politics podcast. They dig in on a regular basis.
[57:58] Speaker 4: They do a fabulous job of it. Their whole mandate
[58:00] Speaker 4: is about getting women elected. more interested in politics and,
[58:04] Speaker 4: and more engaged and getting more women to the table.
[58:07] Speaker 4: They did a phenomenal job along with some other organizations
[58:09] Speaker 4: of bringing women to the table. We just had a
[58:12] Speaker 4: real hard time electing them. And part of it, you know,
[58:14] Speaker 4: you look at Kat, Kat, Kat may have been a
[58:17] Speaker 4: little bit green for the mayor's race, but, she was
[58:21] Speaker 4: sort of symbolic of every woman in every race. You're
[58:24] Speaker 4: always going to be a brand new fresh face coming
[58:27] Speaker 4: to the table because we don't elect women. It's like,
[58:29] Speaker 4: how do you get experience for a job that you
[58:31] Speaker 4: need experience to get?
[58:33] Speaker 5: It's impossible.
[58:34] Speaker 4: So it's a tough, tough fight. And I hope that
[58:39] Speaker 4: with Darcy's, uh, uh, resilience and her reliability that she
[58:44] Speaker 4: will take.
[58:45] Speaker 5: On the mandate.
[58:45] Speaker 4: Unfortunately, as the only woman, she now represents all women.
[58:49] Speaker 4: And I think she will serve us all. Well, I
[58:51] Speaker 4: think she will honestly, if I had to pick one
[58:54] Speaker 4: woman to serve on council, I picked Darcy. She did
[58:57] Speaker 4: a phenomenal job of her campaign. She's done a lot
[58:59] Speaker 4: of hard work. She will serve us all well across
[59:01] Speaker 4: the city, regardless of the ward. And so, um, alongside
[59:05] Speaker 4: that abject despair, I still hold a lot of hope
[59:08] Speaker 4: for the work that she's going to do. Sorry, Darcy,
[59:10] Speaker 4: no pressure. Like, I feel like if Darcy listens to this,
[59:12] Speaker 4: I'm like, you're the Messiah now, like of all women. Anyway,
[59:16] Speaker 4: but I do, yeah, I do have a lot of
[59:19] Speaker 4: faith in Darcy and I think it will go well
[59:21] Speaker 4: for all of us with her.
[59:22] Speaker 1: Doug, what ward did you find interesting, Doug Schmidt, in
[59:28] Speaker 1: terms of results and why?
[59:32] Speaker 3: I wasn't looking at individual awards, to be honest, but
[59:35] Speaker 3: in general, I just want to make a comment. You know,
[59:40] Speaker 3: senior administration dreads the period after an election when new
[59:46] Speaker 3: bodies come to council and then they need to train
[59:50] Speaker 3: them about how municipal politics works. And for some of them,
[59:53] Speaker 3: it's a revelation. It's a first time thing. What I
[59:57] Speaker 3: love about all the new folks that were elected elected,
[1:00:02] Speaker 3: including Chris Holt, but he's an old hand. But I
[1:00:09] Speaker 3: feel all of these new people are going to hit
[1:00:11] Speaker 3: the ground running. They all bring just incredible savviness, I find,
[1:00:18] Speaker 3: to Acton as an urban planner. I love the urban
[1:00:27] Speaker 3: focus of a lot of these people. Mark Masanovich, I
[1:00:32] Speaker 3: think they're going to do really well. I think they're
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: going to focus on the things that haven't been focused
[1:00:38] Speaker 3: on properly, in my view, over the past while. I'm
[1:00:45] Speaker 3: very hopeful about that. I totally agree. It's shocking. You know,
[1:00:54] Speaker 3: the whole the female content on Windsor City Council. But
[1:00:58] Speaker 3: something Rose City Politics can do is look at Kingsville.
[1:01:03] Speaker 3: They have a female mayor, female deputy mayor, female half
[1:01:08] Speaker 3: of council. Compare downtown Kingsville in four years to downtown
[1:01:13] Speaker 3: Windsor in four years. And I think, I guarantee you,
[1:01:17] Speaker 3: the result of that comparison will really encourage voters to say, Hey,
[1:01:24] Speaker 3: maybe we need some women too.
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: It's interesting. We're going to do that. We're going to,
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: we're going to, well, assuming we're still on.
[1:01:31] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:01:32] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:01:32] Speaker 6: Who said four years from now, we're still going to
[1:01:34] Speaker 6: be doing this.
[1:01:35] Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about that, Dawn. Doug Sartori, I want
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: to bring you in on this, not only to.
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: Talk about any other award that you, you found interesting
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: and ask your question, but just picking up from what
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: Doug Schmidt said in terms of, you know, new faces
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: hitting the ground running, but you know, there are, you know,
[1:01:52] Speaker 1: five is a, at least four, is.
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: A new sort of, you know, young, new.
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: Fresh faces that still will have to learn some of
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: the maneuvering that will have to go on, at least
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: for the first little while.
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: But then you've got some returning.
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: Counsellors, which are now, you know, senior counsellors, if you will,
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: in the pool. Which of the returning counsellors do you
[1:02:16] Speaker 1: think are likely to shape, or even some of the
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: new ones, you know, likely to really shape new council's
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: decisions Particularly given that we've got a new mayor who's
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: promised that he will be collaborative and working with everyone.
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: Where are the opportunities there for some of them?
[1:02:34] Speaker 7: You know, I want to go back to the 2014
[1:02:38] Speaker 7: term and the six to four dynamic that was, you know,
[1:02:42] Speaker 7: so famously talked about back then. In that council, we
[1:02:47] Speaker 7: had factions. We had really clear factions that I think
[1:02:52] Speaker 7: coalesced pretty quick after the election. You know, that's my
[1:02:57] Speaker 7: memory of it and lasted for a long time. And
[1:03:00] Speaker 7: in many ways, That kind of confrontation between factions dominated
[1:03:07] Speaker 7: politics in Windsor for a long time. And I think
[1:03:09] Speaker 7: that's what I'm really interested to see. You know, I
[1:03:13] Speaker 7: think it's really insightful that my fellow Doug pointed out
[1:03:18] Speaker 7: that there are, you know, a lot of the newbies
[1:03:20] Speaker 7: have their own kind of experience. You know, Darcy is
[1:03:24] Speaker 7: a former political staffer as well as a close watcher
[1:03:29] Speaker 7: of council. Mark Masanovich has worked in administration. You know,
[1:03:35] Speaker 7: Ken Acton is is an urban planner. So there are
[1:03:38] Speaker 7: like a lot of people bringing things to the table
[1:03:40] Speaker 7: that are more substantive than you might normally expect from
[1:03:46] Speaker 7: a new counselor. And I think that's an excellent insight.
[1:03:50] Speaker 7: How are they going to all gel together? What is
[1:03:54] Speaker 7: what is the you know, what are the are we
[1:03:57] Speaker 7: going to enter another period of factional voting? Are we
[1:04:00] Speaker 7: going to have a more fluid dynamic? Are people going
[1:04:03] Speaker 7: to coalesce around issues, which I think personally would be
[1:04:06] Speaker 7: a lot healthier? That's what I'm going to be looking for.
[1:04:09] Speaker 7: And that's what I'm kind of the most interested in.
[1:04:12] Speaker 7: But in terms of the newbies, I think that, you know,
[1:04:15] Speaker 7: the experience that we've had watching new counselors and speaking
[1:04:18] Speaker 7: to new counselors over the years is it takes time
[1:04:22] Speaker 7: to learn the ropes, no matter what you're bringing with you.
[1:04:26] Speaker 7: It's just something new, like that big package that you've
[1:04:29] Speaker 7: got to read and digest and understand who to talk
[1:04:32] Speaker 7: to to get things done and then learn about the
[1:04:36] Speaker 7: 10 times your big idea has been tried and failed
[1:04:38] Speaker 7: in the past, et cetera, et cetera. All that stuff
[1:04:42] Speaker 7: is going to take time, no matter what experience you
[1:04:45] Speaker 7: bring to the table as a new counselor. And for
[1:04:47] Speaker 7: that reason, I think, It's likely that Fred Francis is
[1:04:51] Speaker 7: going to be dictating the agenda for some time to come.
[1:04:56] Speaker 7: And I think that that's, you know, beyond his name
[1:05:00] Speaker 7: and beyond the appetite for change in the city and
[1:05:03] Speaker 7: the mandate that he has. I think the fact that
[1:05:05] Speaker 7: he really has an opportunity to shape this council is
[1:05:10] Speaker 7: is probably the one of the bigger things operating in
[1:05:13] Speaker 7: his favor and one of the bigger opportunities that we
[1:05:15] Speaker 7: will watch and see whether he capitalizes on it or not.
[1:05:26] Speaker 6: Pat left us, so I'll jump in. Carrying on with
[1:05:30] Speaker 6: the different award discussions, as far as the incumbents that won,
[1:05:36] Speaker 6: I think we talked about this on the show, that
[1:05:39] Speaker 6: we thought Angelo might be in a little bit of trouble,
[1:05:41] Speaker 6: and he won quite handily out there. Bethann Prince, I
[1:05:44] Speaker 6: think we all felt was going to do a little
[1:05:46] Speaker 6: bit better. Another woman who probably would have been a
[1:05:49] Speaker 6: good addition to council. And, I mean, I brought up Jim,
[1:05:52] Speaker 6: so I don't know if anyone wants to talk about the...
[1:05:55] Speaker 6: And obviously, Gary had his own fiasco out there, if
[1:05:59] Speaker 6: you want to call it that. Any of those ones,
[1:06:02] Speaker 6: anybody want to comment on?
[1:06:03] Speaker 7: I want to talk about the Kashak Ward 8 thing.
[1:06:09] Speaker 7: When Gary was first elected, it was a very similar dynamic.
[1:06:15] Speaker 7: To what has transpired with Kevin Racine in this election,
[1:06:19] Speaker 7: Kashak kind of came out of nowhere. He was quiet
[1:06:24] Speaker 7: in terms of seeking media attention, in terms of social media.
[1:06:28] Speaker 7: He didn't make a lot of noise in the campaign.
[1:06:30] Speaker 7: And we were all kind of like, oh, Gary Kashak
[1:06:32] Speaker 7: won this election. Holy moly. And I think Kevin Racine
[1:06:37] Speaker 7: has a similar dynamic, you know, and it's interesting to
[1:06:40] Speaker 7: me how that seems to have been consistent the last
[1:06:45] Speaker 7: couple of campaigns in Ward 8, where it really happens
[1:06:49] Speaker 7: on the ground there. It really is a ward where
[1:06:54] Speaker 7: conversations between neighbors seem to have a lot of impact
[1:06:58] Speaker 7: on the outcome of the race. And Gary Kashak got
[1:07:03] Speaker 7: the scare of a lifetime. And what I'm interested in is,
[1:07:07] Speaker 7: does he plan on running again? Is he thinking about
[1:07:10] Speaker 7: his political future? Or is he going to spend this
[1:07:13] Speaker 7: term building a bridge to to what is going to
[1:07:17] Speaker 7: come after. And that's something I think that counselors in
[1:07:24] Speaker 7: general struggle with in Windsor. In fact, I think it's
[1:07:27] Speaker 7: One of our big problems in Windsor is succession planning
[1:07:31] Speaker 7: and passing the torch and identifying the talent in your
[1:07:35] Speaker 7: ward or in your community that you can support and
[1:07:39] Speaker 7: help as you start to move towards the exit. And
[1:07:43] Speaker 7: also without rehashing an earlier discussion, I think you want
[1:07:49] Speaker 7: to look at the reasons why we don't see more
[1:07:53] Speaker 7: women running and winning is that those very talented women
[1:07:57] Speaker 7: in our community just are not nurtured in that way.
[1:08:01] Speaker 7: And there is a lack of development of leadership. And
[1:08:05] Speaker 7: I think that's a huge structural problem in Windsor in
[1:08:08] Speaker 7: general terms. And so, you know, bring it all back
[1:08:12] Speaker 7: to Gary since that's where this started. It'll be really interesting,
[1:08:16] Speaker 7: you know, to see how he handles the result that
[1:08:22] Speaker 7: happened and a strong competitor. And I'm interested to see
[1:08:27] Speaker 7: if the unwritten rule that no losing candidate gets to,
[1:08:32] Speaker 7: you know, gets to be a part of city committees or,
[1:08:36] Speaker 7: you know, that they all kind of They all kind
[1:08:38] Speaker 7: of have a solidarity and freeze out anybody who ran
[1:08:41] Speaker 7: and lost. If that's going to continue or if we're
[1:08:44] Speaker 7: going to see a more generous policy start to around
[1:08:48] Speaker 7: developing talent in this town.
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: My goodness, I'm just looking at the time.
[1:08:54] Speaker 1: I think we're going to have to focus more on
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: maybe next show or so.
[1:08:59] Speaker 2: I know it's up more.
[1:09:00] Speaker 1: Guests coming on and we'll probably bring on some of
[1:09:03] Speaker 1: the elected councillors and also some of the folks that
[1:09:06] Speaker 1: ran and hear their perspective. So I think we'll get
[1:09:08] Speaker 1: into ward issues that we may not have covered all
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: the ward results as in-depthly as we may have wanted
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: to on the show. Does anybody want to talk about
[1:09:18] Speaker 1: any other ward before we kind of look at big
[1:09:20] Speaker 1: picture and do.
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: some last minute thoughts on this? Any ward issue, any
[1:09:25] Speaker 2: ward campaigns that stand out?
[1:09:28] Speaker 4: I know we have some more that we were going
[1:09:30] Speaker 4: to talk about this. I think that there are some
[1:09:32] Speaker 4: words where I'm just going to say, we'll put a
[1:09:35] Speaker 4: pin in this for later, but I think there's some
[1:09:37] Speaker 4: words where I think it's really interesting to look at
[1:09:39] Speaker 4: who the runner up was and what they brought to
[1:09:42] Speaker 4: the table and, and whether or not that was, you know,
[1:09:45] Speaker 4: in the same way that we're doing this analysis of
[1:09:47] Speaker 4: the mayor's race, whether or not the runner up to
[1:09:51] Speaker 4: whoever went home with the seat had something that people
[1:09:55] Speaker 4: didn't want or they didn't do the work or they
[1:09:57] Speaker 4: didn't have their.
[1:09:58] Speaker 5: Messaging wasn't clear.
[1:09:59] Speaker 4: I like that idea because there's some of them that
[1:10:01] Speaker 4: were very strong candidates or had something really interesting to offer.
[1:10:07] Speaker 4: I'm thinking of like Rasha Zayed in four. I'm thinking
[1:10:11] Speaker 4: about Shane Potvin in five. And even, did not go
[1:10:16] Speaker 4: home with as many votes as I had thought, but
[1:10:18] Speaker 4: Nick Juergens in six versus Jeremy Reynolds. Like there's some
[1:10:21] Speaker 4: interesting campaigns out there that people just didn't key into,
[1:10:27] Speaker 4: that just didn't end up getting them the seat. It
[1:10:30] Speaker 4: didn't end up getting them enough votes, but they were
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: still very strong. And you compare some of those places
[1:10:35] Speaker 4: where there's bigger gaps to a race like the one
[1:10:38] Speaker 4: that Kevin Racine ran. which was so strong and so
[1:10:41] Speaker 4: close to Gary's. And, you know, what made that gap
[1:10:46] Speaker 4: so large in some places, like a much larger gap
[1:10:50] Speaker 4: in five than I expected between Shane and Ken, you know,
[1:10:53] Speaker 4: versus something that was so close between Kevin and Gary.
[1:10:57] Speaker 4: And anyway, that is, it is a deeper topic for
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: another day. But I think as we start to dig
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: into those numbers, it's really interesting.
[1:11:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a worthy topic.
[1:11:05] Speaker 1: And I think we should give sort of the ward
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: races more of a conversation that we may not have here.
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: So we'll promise to bring that back, I think, if
[1:11:15] Speaker 1: not on the next show, for sure, in the next
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: couple of shows. You know, one thing I do want
[1:11:20] Speaker 1: to point out, though, Kristen, that I think is worth
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: mentioning that's clear to me is that in all the
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: cases where someone won in an open seat, that person
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: had run before.
[1:11:34] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:11:35] Speaker 1: So you had Ken Acton, who had run before you
[1:11:37] Speaker 1: had Darcy Reno, who had run before you had Mark Misanovic,
[1:11:40] Speaker 1: who had run before. And even in the case of
[1:11:42] Speaker 1: War 10, unseating Jim Morrison.
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: Sorry, I already mentioned Mark. Who am I missing here?
[1:11:49] Speaker 6: Jeremy Reno ran before.
[1:11:50] Speaker 7: Right.
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: Jeremy Reno ran before.
[1:11:52] Speaker 1: And of course, Chris Holt returns later.
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: Returns to his, uh, vacated seat.
[1:11:59] Speaker 6: It's like the worst sequel movie I've ever heard in
[1:12:00] Speaker 6: my life.
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: Something to be said, and we've said it before, right?
[1:12:05] Speaker 1: Like sometimes you got to run, um, got to run,
[1:12:08] Speaker 1: even if, if, if it's not because you think you're
[1:12:11] Speaker 1: going to win.
[1:12:11] Speaker 2: At that time.
[1:12:12] Speaker 6: But, um, Hey, you know, you know, you know, the
[1:12:15] Speaker 6: people I think are going to be most negatively affected
[1:12:18] Speaker 6: by Fred Francis being the new, new, uh, mayor is
[1:12:21] Speaker 6: the neighbor's of cousin Tony Francis, who put that video
[1:12:26] Speaker 6: out endorsing Drew and basically just slagging off on Fred,
[1:12:31] Speaker 6: because I'm pretty sure that whole block is now going
[1:12:33] Speaker 6: to become a road construction debris depository for the next
[1:12:38] Speaker 6: four years. While Fred is mayor, he's not going to
[1:12:42] Speaker 6: get his garbage picked up. Their houses are going to
[1:12:44] Speaker 6: burn down. He put his neighbors in quite a position.
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: He did say, you know, during the speech, he did
[1:12:51] Speaker 1: say that he would work hard for the people who
[1:12:55] Speaker 1: voted for him and even the ones who didn't.
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: So, you know, maybe there will be some fences to
[1:13:00] Speaker 2: mend there.
[1:13:00] Speaker 6: Christmas is going to be fun at Grandma's house this year.
[1:13:03] Speaker 1: I want to ask Doug Schmidt, because, you know, after,
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: you know, years of covering local politics, did you see
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: anything in this campaign that that suggests that maybe the
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: political culture might be changing?
[1:13:17] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, political culture amongst the very, very few
[1:13:23] Speaker 3: who are engaged, it's tough. It's like, you know, I
[1:13:29] Speaker 3: just can't get my head around the fact that the
[1:13:31] Speaker 3: vast majority of people here just couldn't be bothered to vote.
[1:13:37] Speaker 3: I find it very, you know, I find it very annoying, frustrating.
[1:13:42] Speaker 3: I wanted to mention, though, that, you know, to those
[1:13:45] Speaker 3: who didn't run, I was going to mention what you
[1:13:48] Speaker 3: said as well. You know, everybody who won this time
[1:13:53] Speaker 3: had previously won a run and lost. And it's not
[1:13:58] Speaker 3: a zero-sum game either. If you have some great ideas
[1:14:03] Speaker 3: and you're out there going door to door, meeting your
[1:14:08] Speaker 3: neighbors in your neighborhood with great ideas. Those ideas, they
[1:14:13] Speaker 3: don't just disappear. So sometimes it's kind of like, you know,
[1:14:16] Speaker 3: the folks who vote for the Green Party. They know
[1:14:20] Speaker 3: the Green Party is not going to win, except for
[1:14:22] Speaker 3: the new mayor of Vancouver, who is a Green Party member. But,
[1:14:28] Speaker 3: you know, the Green Party gets out there because they
[1:14:30] Speaker 3: have message, they have messages, they have ideas that they
[1:14:34] Speaker 3: want to get percolating. You know, blue box curbside collection,
[1:14:40] Speaker 3: that was such a radical left conspiracy, just a crazy,
[1:14:45] Speaker 3: crazy idea. And now it's kind of like, you know,
[1:14:49] Speaker 3: it's just a given. That's how new ideas come in.
[1:14:54] Speaker 3: And so if you've got a great idea, you know,
[1:14:57] Speaker 3: don't be shy. Get out there. And if you lost
[1:15:00] Speaker 3: in this race, stick around. You know, if you found
[1:15:06] Speaker 3: it really thrilling and you weren't terribly annoying to anyone,
[1:15:11] Speaker 3: try again. Try, try again. Although it would be nice
[1:15:14] Speaker 3: to have more women trying.
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: So we could spend a lot more time on this
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: than we should. Thanks, thanks, Doug.
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: You know, what I want to ask as we sort
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: of head out, give everybody a chance to sort of
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: chime in here as we wrap up the show is,
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: you know, campaigns are about persuading people.
[1:15:33] Speaker 2: That you have the answers.
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: And of course, now governing is going to start where
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: people need to start making decisions. And that's where answers
[1:15:39] Speaker 1: get a little bit more complicated. As you mentioned, Doug,
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: you know, the money is limited. What's going to happen
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: when not everyone agrees? You know, we should always pull
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: out this quote. We've certainly haven't let him live down
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: and we haven't really mentioned it recently. But former War
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: Ten Councillor Paul Borrelli gave us a line we'll never forget.
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: campaigning is campaigning reality is reality so fred francis now
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: has to find out like what that means in practice
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: and and look at how he can turn his commitments
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: into decisions um you know barring anything weird happening you
[1:16:16] Speaker 1: know subject to the certification of the results november 15th
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: mayor elect francis and the new council will be formed
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: thoughts around the table on what he needs to do,
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: sort of out of the gate, what a first priority
[1:16:33] Speaker 1: should be for him, what should residents be watching for,
[1:16:38] Speaker 1: you know, and also if you're up to it, what does,
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: you know, this difference make for us, what will it
[1:16:45] Speaker 1: look like four years from now, or even a year
[1:16:48] Speaker 1: from now, that this election and the choices we made
[1:16:52] Speaker 1: mattered Just some overall thoughts. I know I threw a
[1:16:55] Speaker 1: bunch at you. Take it any way you like. Let
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: me start with Kristen.
[1:17:00] Speaker 5: I want to say we mentioned it already.
[1:17:01] Speaker 4: I think he's really lucky that he's going to be
[1:17:03] Speaker 4: able to hit the ground running from a mayoral perspective.
[1:17:07] Speaker 4: We talked about not having to bring up a lot
[1:17:09] Speaker 4: of people to speed. I think that's a great thing.
[1:17:12] Speaker 4: I also think that there's some really smart people around
[1:17:15] Speaker 4: the table. And we mentioned that before, you know, in
[1:17:18] Speaker 4: reference to having some people who are really great with
[1:17:21] Speaker 4: data and numbers and have the ability to kind of
[1:17:29] Speaker 4: not just bring ideas to the table, but bring them
[1:17:31] Speaker 4: evidence-based and costed. Like I, I just, that part of it,
[1:17:35] Speaker 4: progressive or no values, wherever they land, these conversations that
[1:17:38] Speaker 4: we're going to have over the next little bit are
[1:17:40] Speaker 4: going to be intelligent, well thought out, supported opinions for
[1:17:44] Speaker 4: the most part. And, and I think for those, those
[1:17:48] Speaker 4: counselors that we've seen who, who sit on the fence sometimes, or,
[1:17:52] Speaker 4: or who, who listen more than they act. I'm thinking
[1:17:55] Speaker 4: of people like Gary and Angelo and, Those people are
[1:17:58] Speaker 4: going to listen and they're going to be able to
[1:17:59] Speaker 4: take it. Even Ronaldo, a great listener, will always listen
[1:18:02] Speaker 4: to an expert and try and get that information. I
[1:18:05] Speaker 4: think we're bound to see some really well thought out decisions.
[1:18:09] Speaker 4: And even if you disagree with them, at least they're
[1:18:11] Speaker 4: going to be well supported. And that will work in
[1:18:14] Speaker 4: everybody's favor. Most certainly will be a support to Fred Francis,
[1:18:17] Speaker 4: who is committed to not using those strong mayor powers.
[1:18:20] Speaker 5: Maybe he won't have to.
[1:18:22] Speaker 2: Dawn?
[1:18:26] Speaker 6: Well, on that, I don't know if anybody else saw this,
[1:18:29] Speaker 6: but the day after the election, Fred was being interviewed
[1:18:33] Speaker 6: by CTV or somebody like that. And the one thing
[1:18:37] Speaker 6: that stood out to me right away is he said
[1:18:39] Speaker 6: he's immediately killing the Barn proposal. That's not going to happen.
[1:18:43] Speaker 6: He said that repeatedly in his campaign. And Drew was
[1:18:47] Speaker 6: obviously pushing that, that he was going to do that.
[1:18:50] Speaker 6: And then it took about half a millisecond for him
[1:18:53] Speaker 6: to catch himself. And then he goes, well, I am
[1:18:56] Speaker 6: going to listen to the will of counsel and see
[1:19:00] Speaker 6: what they say on this. But two seconds before that,
[1:19:02] Speaker 6: it's I'm killing it. It's over. Forget about it. So
[1:19:05] Speaker 6: I think what's going to be important for him is
[1:19:07] Speaker 6: if he really pounded the theme that he's not going
[1:19:12] Speaker 6: to be like Drew. He's going to have to make
[1:19:14] Speaker 6: sure he immediately sticks with that because his first slip
[1:19:18] Speaker 6: up was he was already basically using strong power, strong
[1:19:21] Speaker 6: mayor's power saying, I'm killing this and it's done.
[1:19:23] Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that, Don. I actually have
[1:19:26] Speaker 2: a bottle of scotch. I've got a bet going with someone.
[1:19:28] Speaker 2: They know who they are. They listen to the show.
[1:19:32] Speaker 1: And he said that he gave it six months to
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: that he thinks that Fred's going to use strong mayor powers,
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: and I said he wasn't. So I got a bottle
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: of scotch writing on that bed, Fred. Keep it cool
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: for six months at least.
[1:19:48] Speaker 2: Doug, over to you. Doug Sartori.
[1:19:51] Speaker 7: I think that this is a time of opportunity for
[1:19:54] Speaker 7: Fred Francis and for the city. New mandates, new council.
[1:20:02] Speaker 7: This is a time when I think a lot of
[1:20:04] Speaker 7: people are really eager for change. So there's a chance
[1:20:09] Speaker 7: to really, I think, build something here that is a
[1:20:14] Speaker 7: change in direction, if not a major upheaval in policy. And,
[1:20:19] Speaker 7: you know, one of the things that we criticized during
[1:20:21] Speaker 7: the campaign was that there was not a lot of
[1:20:25] Speaker 7: substantive sort of credible policy planks coming out of the
[1:20:31] Speaker 7: Fred Francis campaign. But the one thing that was loud
[1:20:34] Speaker 7: and clear and and this really the centerpiece of his
[1:20:38] Speaker 7: campaign is I'm going to do things different. I'm going
[1:20:42] Speaker 7: to be consultative. I'm going to listen. And I think
[1:20:46] Speaker 7: that that that Therein lies the opportunity for Fred Francis,
[1:20:51] Speaker 7: because I think that, you know, maybe it was a
[1:20:54] Speaker 7: maybe it was sincere. Maybe it was something that was
[1:20:57] Speaker 7: convenient for the campaign and something that was, you know,
[1:20:59] Speaker 7: the good thing to say in the moment. But but
[1:21:02] Speaker 7: I think that there's a real opportunity and that's that's
[1:21:05] Speaker 7: actually the path.
[1:21:08] Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure your cat just disagreed with you in
[1:21:10] Speaker 6: the background.
[1:21:11] Speaker 7: Yeah, he wants to come in.
[1:21:14] Speaker 2: Doug, final word over to you.
[1:21:17] Speaker 3: Fred doesn't have to be a strong mayor. The mayor
[1:21:22] Speaker 3: controls the agenda. The mayor decides what's going to be discussed,
[1:21:27] Speaker 3: what decisions are going to be made on. The mayor
[1:21:33] Speaker 3: controls the budget process, which is the number one thing.
[1:21:36] Speaker 3: This whole thing about strong mayor powers, well, Fred Francis
[1:21:42] Speaker 3: is the only full-time politician around that table. He spends
[1:21:47] Speaker 3: the entire day and evenings and weekends and nights just
[1:21:51] Speaker 3: doing nothing but. So that's going to be interesting. The
[1:21:57] Speaker 3: other thing is he, and as far as I know,
[1:21:59] Speaker 3: almost all the winning council candidates have pledged to keep
[1:22:07] Speaker 3: a lid on taxes. That's going to be really tough.
[1:22:11] Speaker 3: Because one thing, the beauty about being a municipal politician
[1:22:14] Speaker 3: is you get to spend other people's money. And there's
[1:22:18] Speaker 3: over a billion dollars of that each year in Windsor alone.
[1:22:24] Speaker 3: You can make all the promises you want. But where
[1:22:26] Speaker 3: it gets tough is if you're going to hold the
[1:22:28] Speaker 3: line on taxes, if you want to add something to
[1:22:32] Speaker 3: the spending ledger, you're going to have to come to
[1:22:35] Speaker 3: the table with suggestions on where you're going to chop.
[1:22:39] Speaker 3: And I'm sure everything that was previously approved for spending
[1:22:42] Speaker 3: was vitally important. So that's where, you know, the rubber
[1:22:47] Speaker 3: hits the road. The budget process. And they're not going
[1:22:51] Speaker 3: to have much time to get set because I think
[1:22:53] Speaker 3: the budget process starts immediately. Talk to Fraser Fathers about
[1:22:59] Speaker 3: him winning the by-election and then immediately getting into the
[1:23:02] Speaker 3: midst of the budget process. I still think of him
[1:23:04] Speaker 3: as a newbie. But again, like Kristen said these guys,
[1:23:10] Speaker 3: they're all, they come with great experience, knowledge. And what
[1:23:16] Speaker 3: I also love about these guys is they seem to
[1:23:18] Speaker 3: be very engaged in the community, which is something you
[1:23:23] Speaker 3: could not say about some of the council members who
[1:23:25] Speaker 3: are departed or departing. You know, they were just, it's
[1:23:31] Speaker 3: a good thing Drew lost because he lost some of
[1:23:33] Speaker 3: his most loyal lieutenants. along the way there. So anyways,
[1:23:39] Speaker 3: but I'm super hopeful. These are smart people. They'll make
[1:23:44] Speaker 3: some good decisions, I think.
[1:23:46] Speaker 2: Good. Yeah.
[1:23:47] Speaker 1: Well, it's definitely going to be a new era and
[1:23:50] Speaker 1: the trade-offs during budget talks and any other time is
[1:23:55] Speaker 1: going to be interesting to take a look at as
[1:23:58] Speaker 1: this new dynamic forms. Huge thank you, Doug Schmidt, for
[1:24:02] Speaker 1: joining us. and bringing your perspectives to the conversation. That's
[1:24:06] Speaker 1: our look at Windsor's 2026 municipal election. I should say
[1:24:10] Speaker 1: that's our first look at it. We didn't get to
[1:24:12] Speaker 1: all the things we wanted to talk about. I'm sure
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about them up ahead. You know,
[1:24:18] Speaker 1: when we brought the show back, we said we'd cover
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: the election and see how things went. It looks like
[1:24:23] Speaker 1: we got plenty more to talk about, so we'll be
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: continuing the show, I think, bringing in some of the
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: people who ran for office, new faces, returning councillors, and
[1:24:33] Speaker 1: the candidates who didn't win but still have plenty to
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: say about Windsor's future. I think those are interesting voices
[1:24:40] Speaker 1: to make sure we continue to hear about if they're
[1:24:42] Speaker 1: so willing. As always, thank you to Lioness625 for supporting
[1:24:46] Speaker 1: Rose City Politics.
[1:24:48] Speaker 2: So that's it. The campaign's over. Now the accountability part starts,
[1:24:52] Speaker 2: and we'll be here for it.
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: I'm Pat Papadias for Doug Sartori, Don Merrifield, Christian Siapas,
[1:24:58] Speaker 1: and everyone at Rose City Politics.
[1:25:00] Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Thank you.

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