# Michael Shawn Dugar on Kenneth Walker, Offseason Finances, Back Deals

An episode of [Softy & Dick Interviews](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1245866571), 23 Oct 2026, 14 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/98a2599f-cd9b-4f2a-9be4-b22c00e585f2/907d6469-cef5-4bda-9f13-b2f100f49399/096ccc5b-3fc7-4e2e-88dc-b4ec0016cf80/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=26b16ce4-8fab-44ea-88d4-b2f100f493bc

Michael Shawn Dugar from The Athletic joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the off-season departure of Kenneth Walker, the finances for the Seahawks and if they could have paid both Walker and Rashid Shaheed, if the team will make a deal for another outside running back, Sam Darnold’s turnover issues, and his future in Seattle. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: All right, joining us right now in person, apparently we
[0:02] Speaker 1: have to go to a bar to get this guy
[0:04] Speaker 1: on the air.
[0:04] Speaker 2: He's a new father, is that right.
[0:06] Speaker 1: Michael Sean Dugar, with us on the radio show?
[0:09] Speaker 3: I'm up to two kids now.
[0:10] Speaker 2: Wow, you move fast. Holy moly.
[0:13] Speaker 3: No time to waste.
[0:13] Speaker 1: Well, it's no surprise that a guy with two kids
[0:16] Speaker 1: is hanging out at a bar, by the way.
[0:18] Speaker 2: Get away from the house. Come here, let me fix
[0:20] Speaker 2: that for you real quick. There you go, big guy.
[0:24] Speaker 2: Michael Sean Dugar, how are you, man? What's going on?
[0:26] Speaker 2: Doing good.
[0:26] Speaker 3: I had a babysitter right now.
[0:28] Speaker 2: I love it.
[0:28] Speaker 3: Both kids are my mother-in-laws.
[0:30] Speaker 2: Good for you.
[0:30] Speaker 3: Shout out to my mother-in-law, or mother-in-love is how she
[0:32] Speaker 3: likes to say it. And, yeah, I haven't had a
[0:35] Speaker 3: drink in a little bit, so this is great.
[0:36] Speaker 2: Well, you're about to.
[0:39] Speaker 1: Let's talk about, first of all, the situation that's getting
[0:42] Speaker 1: a lot of attention for the game on Sunday.
[0:44] Speaker 2: That's the Kenny Walker story.
[0:46] Speaker 3: Right?
[0:46] Speaker 1: Hawks offense is struggling on the ground. He's kicking ass
[0:49] Speaker 1: in Kansas City. He's on his way to maybe being
[0:51] Speaker 1: an MVP for crying out loud. What's your assessment of
[0:55] Speaker 1: the way this whole thing worked out? Criticisms, lack of criticisms,
[0:59] Speaker 1: who's at fault, who's not at fault, the whole picture.
[1:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of layers to it, which I
[1:03] Speaker 3: wrote about on The Athletic. Shameless plug there. There you go.
[1:06] Speaker 3: So I think the number one thing is the Seattle
[1:09] Speaker 3: Seahawks valuation of Ken Walker. Ken didn't want to be here,
[1:13] Speaker 3: but that's because of the circumstances. So it starts with
[1:17] Speaker 3: pulling him off the field on third downs. It starts
[1:19] Speaker 3: with pulling him off the field in the red zone
[1:21] Speaker 3: near the goal line. Ken's like, what am I doing
[1:23] Speaker 3: here with this? You have to give me the bag
[1:26] Speaker 3: to want to come back to this. So I think
[1:29] Speaker 3: that's important. It starts there for me. They just didn't
[1:31] Speaker 3: see Ken like, The Falcons see Bijon. They didn't see
[1:34] Speaker 3: him like the Lions see Gibbs or like the Eagles
[1:36] Speaker 3: see Saquon. You can just go down the list. Derrick Henry,
[1:39] Speaker 3: Christian McCaffrey, guys who are treated like you're the feature guy.
[1:41] Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you never come off the field. Derrick
[1:43] Speaker 3: Henry doesn't play third downs. Saquon, he's not their main
[1:46] Speaker 3: pass blocking guy either. Like every guy still has his
[1:49] Speaker 3: limitations in the times that he comes off the field.
[1:50] Speaker 3: But for Ken... He was like in a time share,
[1:54] Speaker 3: like a partnership with whoever it was, Zach, Alani. It
[1:58] Speaker 3: didn't matter, DJ Dallas, whatever. So I think that he
[2:01] Speaker 3: got to that point where you guys just don't see
[2:03] Speaker 3: me how I see myself. And that's not that unique.
[2:06] Speaker 3: You know, Gino got to that place. Russ got to
[2:08] Speaker 3: that place. Plenty of guys got to the place where
[2:10] Speaker 3: the team doesn't see me the way I see myself. Right.
[2:13] Speaker 3: And so money talks. And they were so far apart
[2:16] Speaker 3: that I don't even think they got to the point
[2:17] Speaker 3: of like, really hammering out, hey, how much can we
[2:20] Speaker 3: get you here?
[2:20] Speaker 4: It's like, no, they just didn't see eye to eye
[2:24] Speaker 4: in that way. Should they have? Because the names you're
[2:26] Speaker 4: throwing out are guys that are going to be wearing
[2:28] Speaker 4: gold jackets in 20 years.
[2:31] Speaker 2: Bijan and Jameer Gibbs.
[2:33] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think Ken Walker's wearing a gold
[2:35] Speaker 3: jacket in 20 years. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean,
[2:37] Speaker 3: you can go down the list, though. I mean, they
[2:39] Speaker 3: didn't see DJ Reed the same way. DJ Reed saw himself, right?
[2:42] Speaker 3: Should they have paid him? They didn't see Shaquille Griffin
[2:44] Speaker 3: the same way. You can go down and let guys who...
[2:47] Speaker 3: saw themselves as, I'm worth X amount of dollars, and
[2:50] Speaker 3: the Seahawks didn't. Boya Mafia just got $ 20 million from
[2:53] Speaker 3: the Bengals, right? I never get tweeted that the Seahawks
[2:56] Speaker 3: should have paid, you know, Boya Mafia instead of, like,
[2:58] Speaker 3: Derek Hall, for instance. So something like John's track record,
[3:00] Speaker 3: John Snyder, that is, it's pretty decent, so I don't
[3:03] Speaker 3: want to just slam him.
[3:04] Speaker 2: Sure, of course.
[3:04] Speaker 3: I do think it was a little arrogant. to bet
[3:07] Speaker 3: so much on the draft in trying to replace Ken.
[3:11] Speaker 3: I thought if you're going to try to replace Ken,
[3:13] Speaker 3: it wasn't just we'll get a rookie and then Zach's
[3:15] Speaker 3: knee will heal. It should be like we'll get a
[3:17] Speaker 3: rookie and also Tyler Alger. We'll get a rookie and
[3:20] Speaker 3: just insert decent free agent veteran.
[3:22] Speaker 2: Emmanuel Wilson was their answer.
[3:24] Speaker 3: See, I never liked that. That never made sense to me,
[3:27] Speaker 3: not because Emmanuel's a bad player, just square peg, round hole.
[3:29] Speaker 3: He's a heavy guy who runs forward. This is a
[3:31] Speaker 3: scheme that gets you to the perimeter. It just never
[3:33] Speaker 3: made sense. schematically, and there's a reason he was available
[3:36] Speaker 3: for the veteran minimum. So I think that's where the
[3:38] Speaker 3: arrogance went. Every player is replaceable. DiGino was, Russ was,
[3:41] Speaker 3: you know, but it's about what resources do you allocate
[3:44] Speaker 3: to that, and they basically said, Zach's knee will heal,
[3:46] Speaker 3: and we can get a rookie. That was way too
[3:48] Speaker 3: arrogant for me.
[3:48] Speaker 1: No, I'm totally with you, especially after the way Kenny
[3:50] Speaker 1: played in the final six games of the year where
[3:52] Speaker 1: he was just magnificent for the football team. What drives
[3:55] Speaker 1: me bananas, Mike, and Michael Sean Dugar from The Athletic
[3:58] Speaker 1: is joining us here from the 520 Barn Grill. is
[4:01] Speaker 1: that people say the Hawks had no choice. They had
[4:03] Speaker 1: plenty of choices. They could have played him more. They
[4:05] Speaker 1: could have evaluated him differently. They could have changed their
[4:08] Speaker 1: mind after the final six games of the year. So
[4:10] Speaker 1: that part is just driving me absolutely bananas. There's this
[4:14] Speaker 1: other idea, too, that it was between him and Rashid Shaheed,
[4:18] Speaker 1: that they had to pick one. And then some will say, well,
[4:21] Speaker 1: that's not the case. It wasn't between him and Rashid Shaheed.
[4:24] Speaker 1: Then the insinuation is that, well, they could have had both.
[4:27] Speaker 1: if they wanted to. Could they have had both if
[4:29] Speaker 1: they wanted to?
[4:30] Speaker 3: Absolutely, you can have both. That's why I said it
[4:32] Speaker 3: starts with evaluation. Put it this way. Let's play a scenario.
[4:35] Speaker 3: I'm Shahid's agent, and John reaches out and says, hey,
[4:38] Speaker 3: what's it going to cost to get your guy back?
[4:40] Speaker 3: And Shahid's agent says, probably somewhere in the realm of
[4:43] Speaker 3: like 15, 16, you know, tells him that off rip.
[4:45] Speaker 3: John says, okay, cool, I'll call Joey Lane, I think
[4:48] Speaker 3: is their salary cap guy. Let me call Joey. We'll
[4:50] Speaker 3: figure it out, you know? All right, now let's do
[4:52] Speaker 3: the scenario with Ken's agent. Ken's agent, John calls, say,
[4:54] Speaker 3: you know, what's it going to take maybe to get
[4:56] Speaker 3: your guy back? Maybe Ken's agent says, I don't know,
[4:59] Speaker 3: probably $ 11 million. There's something in that ballpark. John says, cool,
[5:03] Speaker 3: see you week seven. You know, that's just, I'm making
[5:07] Speaker 3: up a scenario, but that's why the valuation is important.
[5:09] Speaker 3: Because if Shahid's agent says that, and you say, cool,
[5:12] Speaker 3: let me go to the bank and check if I
[5:14] Speaker 3: have the money in my account, then that means I
[5:17] Speaker 3: value you a certain way. So I think that's probably
[5:20] Speaker 3: close to how it went. And so it's not really
[5:22] Speaker 3: about People who will tweet you guys, I'm sure, and
[5:24] Speaker 3: tweet me and show you screenshots of Ken. Ken didn't
[5:27] Speaker 3: want to be here. He decided in the middle of
[5:29] Speaker 3: the year that he wasn't going to come back. No,
[5:31] Speaker 3: there's always at least a talk. But if you're so
[5:34] Speaker 3: far apart that you can't even really talk like they
[5:36] Speaker 3: were with Geno, then it comes down to the team
[5:38] Speaker 3: not valuing the guy.
[5:39] Speaker 2: A certain way.
[5:40] Speaker 4: There are running backs out there. There is a Saquon
[5:44] Speaker 4: out there. There's a Jonathan Taylor out there. There's a
[5:46] Speaker 4: Tony Pollard out there. Would that be something that you
[5:49] Speaker 4: would think about, or do you think the Seahawks will
[5:52] Speaker 4: think about it at the trade deadline?
[5:54] Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. It's funny because I actually think running back
[5:57] Speaker 3: is John's favorite position. He was a running back in
[5:59] Speaker 3: high school. He was a running back in college for
[6:01] Speaker 3: a little bit, like a cup of coffee. I would
[6:03] Speaker 3: love to see tape on that, by the way.
[6:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would too. Oh, yeah.
[6:06] Speaker 3: I think, you know, the funny story when I did
[6:07] Speaker 3: a story on John, I think one of his old
[6:10] Speaker 3: classmates from either college or high school was telling me
[6:12] Speaker 3: one day they were reviewing film, I think of draft picks,
[6:15] Speaker 3: and they snuck in John's old film without John knowing.
[6:18] Speaker 4: Oh, God.
[6:19] Speaker 3: So he's looking up like, oh, my, that's me, you know,
[6:21] Speaker 3: from the 80s or 90s or whatever it was. But
[6:23] Speaker 3: that's his favorite position. He grew up idolizing Walter Payton,
[6:26] Speaker 3: wanted to be just like him. This is a kid
[6:27] Speaker 3: who grew up in Wisconsin, by the way, idolizing a
[6:30] Speaker 3: Bears legend. So I say that to say I think
[6:32] Speaker 3: John will always try to get the best running back.
[6:34] Speaker 3: He values running backs as much as I think anyone
[6:36] Speaker 3: in the league. So, yeah, he'll probably– call who's running
[6:39] Speaker 3: the Colts now, Ed Dodds, and say, hey, what would
[6:42] Speaker 3: it take for Jonathan Taylor? What would it take for
[6:43] Speaker 3: Tony Pollard? What would it take for Saquon? John and
[6:46] Speaker 3: Howie Roseman, the Eagles GM, are like best friends. So
[6:48] Speaker 3: I do think that is going to be part of
[6:50] Speaker 3: the conversations if they're having now or will have. But
[6:53] Speaker 3: my prediction is that they'll see how Zach looks on Sunday.
[6:56] Speaker 3: That's very important. Try to get Jadarian back. See how
[6:59] Speaker 3: he looks. Maybe that's against the Bears. Maybe that's against
[7:01] Speaker 3: the Cardinals, I think, is their next game. Right before
[7:04] Speaker 3: the trade deadline. See how that goes. And if it's
[7:06] Speaker 3: bad and you say, hey, Howie, hey, whoever's running the
[7:09] Speaker 3: Titans now, whoever's running the Colts and say, hey, we need.
[7:13] Speaker 3: Such and such. But I do think they'll give their
[7:15] Speaker 3: guys that they have a shot first. Right, yeah.
[7:17] Speaker 1: Well, he's crushed it three years in a row at
[7:18] Speaker 1: the deadline. I don't know if there's ever been a
[7:19] Speaker 1: Seahawk run like that with Leonard Williams, Ernest Jones, and
[7:23] Speaker 1: then Shahid for three seasons in a row at the deadline.
[7:25] Speaker 2: That's pretty damn good, Mike. Yeah, he had a... That's
[7:27] Speaker 2: a hell of a run.
[7:28] Speaker 3: He had a similar run from 2017 to 2020, where
[7:30] Speaker 3: in 2017 they got Dwayne Brown.
[7:30] Speaker 4: Right.
[7:31] Speaker 3: And in 2018, I don't think they did anything. But 2019,
[7:33] Speaker 3: he got Clowney. And then got Quandre at the deadline.
[7:39] Speaker 3: And in 2020, I believe, he got Carlos Dunlap at
[7:42] Speaker 3: the deadline.
[7:42] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[7:43] Speaker 3: He's been busy. Yeah. He has been busy. To his credit,
[7:46] Speaker 3: he's not afraid to address a deficiency, like just cut
[7:49] Speaker 3: your losses and go fix something. I like that about John.
[7:51] Speaker 1: But those guys that you talked about, Dunlap came here,
[7:53] Speaker 1: was great for it, but he wasn't re-signed.
[7:55] Speaker 2: Clowney wasn't re-signed, right? I mean, all these guys we're
[7:57] Speaker 2: talking about.
[7:57] Speaker 4: But we probably don't need to re-sign the guys.
[7:59] Speaker 1: But they were all brought back. Leonard Williams was brought back.
[8:02] Speaker 1: Ernest Jones was blocked back.
[8:04] Speaker 3: Quandre was, and Dwayne.
[8:05] Speaker 1: Quandre and Dwayne, right. But I'm saying three years in
[8:07] Speaker 1: a row. Stop being so damn argumentative right now.
[8:10] Speaker 4: All right?
[8:11] Speaker 1: I'm trying to compliment the guy, for God's sakes. Michael Shondugar. Okay,
[8:14] Speaker 1: how about Darnold? We had Mike on, Holmgren. Collinsworth was
[8:18] Speaker 1: on as well. Mike had a bit of a different
[8:20] Speaker 1: take than Chris did. Mike says, look, Darnold's my guy.
[8:23] Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm benching him, then... He's almost like done.
[8:26] Speaker 1: Like we're going to Drew Locke and he's going to
[8:27] Speaker 1: be the guy the rest of the week. Can't be flip-flopping.
[8:30] Speaker 1: Collinsworth said, oh, there's obviously a point in time where
[8:32] Speaker 1: you might consider making the change. Do you think that
[8:36] Speaker 1: they are even sniffing that finish line with Darnold where
[8:40] Speaker 1: he can play so poorly? where they would get him
[8:43] Speaker 1: off the field and give the offense back to Drew Larkin.
[8:45] Speaker 3: Is there a scenario where Sam plays poorly enough to
[8:47] Speaker 3: get benched? Absolutely.
[8:48] Speaker 2: For sure.
[8:49] Speaker 3: Do I think that they're near that? I don't even
[8:51] Speaker 3: think they're in the same realm of that right now.
[8:54] Speaker 3: They believe in Sam. And I also think Sam, Drew,
[8:58] Speaker 3: you can take it outside the league, Jalen Hurts, Jared Goff,
[9:01] Speaker 3: Kirk Cousins. There's a lot of guys who fall into
[9:03] Speaker 3: this bucket of, like, if everything around you is good,
[9:06] Speaker 3: your ceiling is actually really high. I actually felt this
[9:08] Speaker 3: way about Geno as well. And Sam, we just saw
[9:10] Speaker 3: that when he had a good O-line last year, a
[9:13] Speaker 3: good run game, the best receiver in the league. They
[9:15] Speaker 3: won the Super Bowl. Sam played really well, particularly in
[9:17] Speaker 3: high leverage situations. Sam's also in that bucket of when
[9:20] Speaker 3: the stuff around you starts to break down, you can
[9:22] Speaker 3: look unplayable. And there's been, I think now, on pretty
[9:26] Speaker 3: much every team Sam's been on and had a chance
[9:28] Speaker 3: to start, so let's scratch San Francisco, he's had a
[9:31] Speaker 3: stretch where he looked unplayable. He had a stretch in
[9:33] Speaker 3: Minnesota where he looked unplayable. He had a stretch in
[9:34] Speaker 3: Carolina where he looked unplayable. I guess with the Jets,
[9:37] Speaker 3: he obviously looked unplayable there. They got rid of him.
[9:40] Speaker 3: So this is who Sam is. He's going to have
[9:42] Speaker 3: stretches if you don't support him accordingly, where he looks unplayable.
[9:45] Speaker 3: The goal for you, organization, coaching staff, is to build
[9:49] Speaker 3: it around him. Give him a run game. Give him
[9:51] Speaker 3: a good play caller. That's an under-discussed, I think, part
[9:54] Speaker 3: of all this. A first-year play caller on a team
[9:56] Speaker 3: with high expectations. I thought that was a bad idea
[9:58] Speaker 3: as well. So I don't think they'll get... to a
[10:00] Speaker 3: point where they bench Sam because I actually am kind
[10:02] Speaker 3: of optimistic that when they get Jadarian back, when they
[10:04] Speaker 3: get Zach back, Fleury gets some more games under his belt,
[10:07] Speaker 3: the support system around Sam will look good enough where
[10:10] Speaker 3: he no longer, at the very least, looks unplayable, which
[10:12] Speaker 3: is how he's looked here for a little bit. How
[10:14] Speaker 3: about his extension?
[10:16] Speaker 4: I mean, will there be an extension at this point,
[10:18] Speaker 4: or do you think that right now, if Let's say
[10:20] Speaker 4: he plays better, but he doesn't play great the rest
[10:23] Speaker 4: of the year.
[10:23] Speaker 3: Do they just play him on.
[10:24] Speaker 4: That $ 41 million contract for the last year of his contract?
[10:28] Speaker 4: I would.
[10:29] Speaker 2: I would.
[10:29] Speaker 3: I would treat it just like, if I'm the Seahawks,
[10:31] Speaker 3: I would treat it just like they did Geno. Remember
[10:33] Speaker 3: that year, Geno's agent hit up John. I love doing
[10:36] Speaker 3: agent hit up John scenarios.
[10:37] Speaker 2: They're great.
[10:37] Speaker 3: He hit up John and was like, hey, you know,
[10:39] Speaker 3: how do we talk about my client in a new deal?
[10:41] Speaker 3: And he's like, no, absolutely not. Your client's going to
[10:46] Speaker 3: have to talk to us after the year maybe, which
[10:48] Speaker 3: to his credit, they did talk after the year. Very
[10:50] Speaker 3: brief convo gets shipped to Las Vegas. I think at
[10:53] Speaker 3: this rate, it would probably be very similar where Sam
[10:56] Speaker 3: plays okay. Like if he plays like he just did
[10:58] Speaker 3: last year, you get to the end of the year
[11:00] Speaker 3: and it's like, all right, you're making, what is he making, 33-ish?
[11:02] Speaker 2: 35, whatever.
[11:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, something in that realm. If you're Sam's agent, like
[11:06] Speaker 3: your Geno's, like, all right, our new number should start
[11:09] Speaker 3: with a five, right? And say, yeah, buddy, we will
[11:12] Speaker 3: see you at camp on that same deal.
[11:15] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you flat out. Do you think
[11:17] Speaker 1: Sam Darnold is the starting quarterback for this team?
[11:20] Speaker 2: Week one, 2028.
[11:21] Speaker 4: No!
[11:21] Speaker 2: 2028?
[11:24] Speaker 3: So two years from now.
[11:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, two years. Oh, no.
[11:27] Speaker 1: He's got one more year left on his current deal, correct,
[11:29] Speaker 1: next year. In 2028, is he the starting quarterback for
[11:33] Speaker 1: the Seahawks?
[11:34] Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I think Sam's going to
[11:36] Speaker 3: continue to be the guy that he is. He's a
[11:38] Speaker 3: good quarterback. I actually do think Sam is good, but
[11:41] Speaker 3: he turns the ball over. That's what he does. He
[11:42] Speaker 3: led the league in them last year. So the next
[11:45] Speaker 3: quarterback's in college right now. I wouldn't say that. I
[11:48] Speaker 3: wouldn't say that. John's also shown us that he loves veterans.
[11:51] Speaker 3: He went out and got Sam. He went out and
[11:53] Speaker 3: got Gino. He went out and paid Matt Flynn. So
[11:56] Speaker 3: I do think he'll do both. He'll continue to draft
[11:58] Speaker 3: and insert a guy who's on another team right now,
[12:01] Speaker 3: maybe down the line, he ends up coming here.
[12:04] Speaker 4: So the people that watched Hard Knocks probably thought Derek
[12:07] Speaker 4: Hall was some $ 45 million a year pass rusher from
[12:12] Speaker 4: how much he was featured in his rims and his.
[12:15] Speaker 2: Truck and his shorts.
[12:18] Speaker 3: I mean, he was like the star of the team.
[12:20] Speaker 3: He was a shadow box feature guy too.
[12:22] Speaker 2: So what's up with Derek Hall?
[12:25] Speaker 3: How many sacks does he have? I don't have it
[12:27] Speaker 3: in front of me.
[12:27] Speaker 2: I think it's two and a half.
[12:28] Speaker 3: Two and a half?
[12:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to look it up.
[12:29] Speaker 3: That's probably about as many as last year, actually, to
[12:33] Speaker 3: his credit. Here's why I'm not too concerned about Derrick, Chenna,
[12:37] Speaker 3: or the D-line in general. When you watch the tape,
[12:39] Speaker 3: this bears out as well. It's just not a lot
[12:42] Speaker 3: of opportunities for guys to get obvious pass rush situations.
[12:45] Speaker 3: It's third and six. It's you versus the tackle. Go win.
[12:48] Speaker 3: They just really don't get that. And you see it
[12:51] Speaker 3: without getting too into the weeds. Like on third and eight,
[12:53] Speaker 3: what do you guys see? You see seven guys at
[12:56] Speaker 3: the line. Maybe somebody's blitzing. Maybe half these guys are
[12:58] Speaker 3: dropping out. It's a rush by committee, so no one
[13:02] Speaker 3: guy gets to be Trey Hendrickson when he had 17
[13:04] Speaker 3: or 18 or whatever. or Micah Parsons or Max Crosby.
[13:07] Speaker 3: They're just not designed that way. I mean, the team
[13:10] Speaker 3: that went to the Super Bowl against them last year,
[13:11] Speaker 3: the Patriots, were designed similarly. Ooh, boy, I'm botching that.
[13:16] Speaker 2: That's good. We get it.
[13:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, they looked the same is my point. So I
[13:19] Speaker 3: think that you're never going to, in a Mike McDonald defense,
[13:22] Speaker 3: have an edge guy who does that. Even when the
[13:25] Speaker 3: Ravens had the number one defense in 2023, who was
[13:28] Speaker 3: their leading sack guy? I believe it was Matabuke. Like 12?
[13:31] Speaker 2: Justin, right. Yeah.
[13:32] Speaker 3: He's changed his name since then. I think it's Nnamdi now.
[13:35] Speaker 3: But either way, he was at like 12, which was
[13:37] Speaker 3: an outlier season for him. I don't think he had
[13:39] Speaker 3: even touched like five sacks before that. So I'm not
[13:41] Speaker 3: worried about Derek. His tape still looks good. I think
[13:43] Speaker 3: Seahawks fans just got to accept that their leading sack
[13:46] Speaker 3: guy is probably just going to be an interior rusher
[13:48] Speaker 3: with Mike McDonald here.
[13:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got two sacks on the year, but he's
[13:50] Speaker 1: on pace for about 120 more snaps than a year ago.
[13:53] Speaker 4: So.
[13:53] Speaker 2: At least he's playing more. Hey, good to see you, man.
[13:55] Speaker 2: Congrats on the kids. I appreciate it.
[13:57] Speaker 3: Enjoy the night out, man.
[13:58] Speaker 1: You ever want to drop him off with Softie and Dick?
[14:00] Speaker 1: We'll be your babysitter. We'll take care of it.
[14:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'll have my people call your people.
[14:04] Speaker 3: Softie needs the experience. I already got 16 years of
[14:08] Speaker 3: experience babysitting. I don't need any more. And you're coaching, too,
[14:10] Speaker 3: so you add to the time you're around the youth.
[14:12] Speaker 4: Absolutely.
[14:12] Speaker 2: I'm good to go. Mike, great to see you, man.
[14:14] Speaker 2: Thanks for doing this, buddy.
[14:15] Speaker 3: Thank you guys for having me.
[14:16] Speaker 2: Michael Sean Dugar from The Athletic with us.

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