# Episode 122: UFOs & The Hat Man with Heidi Hollis

An episode of [The Best of Coast to Coast AM](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1206175991), 19 Sep 2026, 40 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/01226d1c-c708-4abc-b06e-b15b00fe3849/bc12b068-f71f-434a-87ec-b4ca01343a68/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=b95f0c24-c199-4939-b52c-ae2b00350f65

Join Captain Ron and his guest Author Heidi Hollis as they discuss he lifelong exposure the world of UFOs, and her discovery of the truth about The Hat Man. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
[0:04] Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
[0:09] Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
[0:13] Speaker 1: Captain Ron.
[0:21] Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
[0:24] Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
[0:29] Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartRadio. iHeartRadio, Coast to
[0:34] Speaker 2: Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors and associates.
[0:39] Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own
[0:42] Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
[0:56] Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond Contact,
[1:01] Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
[1:04] Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
[1:08] Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
[1:13] Speaker 4: Hi, and welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and
[1:15] Speaker 4: today we're speaking with Heidi Hollis. Heidi is a researcher, lecturer, experiencer,
[1:20] Speaker 4: and author of 10 books. She spent the last three
[1:23] Speaker 4: decades investigating some of the stranger aspects of the paranormal
[1:27] Speaker 4: and extraterrestrial contact phenomenon. She is perhaps best known for
[1:31] Speaker 4: bringing widespread attention to the phenomenon known as shadow people
[1:35] Speaker 4: and the hat man. Her work also extends deeply into
[1:39] Speaker 4: the UFO and alien contact fields as well, having spent
[1:43] Speaker 4: many years communicating with people who report encounters with UFOs,
[1:47] Speaker 4: non-human entities, and other unexplained phenomena. Hi, Heidi. Welcome to
[1:51] Speaker 4: the show. How are you doing?
[1:53] Speaker 5: Thank you for having me on here, Captain Ron. It's awesome.
[1:56] Speaker 4: Absolutely, my dear. Listen, you've been at this a long
[1:59] Speaker 4: time now. Wow, 30 years. 30 years ago, your first
[2:03] Speaker 4: book came out called The Secret War, a true story
[2:07] Speaker 4: about real alien war and shadow people. Heidi, that's about
[2:12] Speaker 4: as provocative a title as I've ever heard. Tell me
[2:16] Speaker 4: what you mean by a real alien war, and how
[2:19] Speaker 4: do these shadow people fit into this alien phenomenon?
[2:22] Speaker 5: Yeah, they always did, and I think A lot of
[2:26] Speaker 5: people tend to forget because they didn't know me on
[2:28] Speaker 5: a grand scale back then. I had a UFO discussion
[2:32] Speaker 5: group for 15 years. And during that time, I was
[2:37] Speaker 5: experiencing a lot of strange things. I grew up in
[2:39] Speaker 5: a haunted house. I saw somebody who had something going
[2:43] Speaker 5: on and I didn't realize how bad of a problem
[2:46] Speaker 5: they had. And it kind of jumped onto me and
[2:48] Speaker 5: that was shadow people. And so I was having to
[2:50] Speaker 5: deal with this thing. And, and, but I always came
[2:52] Speaker 5: at it from the perspective of somebody that was in
[2:55] Speaker 5: the UFO field. It wasn't something, uh, that I was
[2:59] Speaker 5: on a ghost hunter. I wasn't any of those things. And,
[3:01] Speaker 5: you know, there was a lovely time when the ghost
[3:03] Speaker 5: hunters would bash us UFO people. And, you know, I'm like,
[3:06] Speaker 5: hold on, I've experienced both of them. What is the deal?
[3:09] Speaker 4: You know? So, yeah.
[3:11] Speaker 5: So it's just always kind of been, um, this conversation piece.
[3:15] Speaker 5: And still to this day, I get people think they're
[3:18] Speaker 5: going to drop a bombshell on me. It's like, guess what, Heidi?
[3:20] Speaker 5: The paranormal is connected to UFOs. I'm like, no, it's
[3:27] Speaker 5: ridiculous sometimes. But, you know, I'm glad and I welcome
[3:30] Speaker 5: people into the fold that are pulling the pieces together.
[3:33] Speaker 5: But yeah, I was a college student. I had where
[3:37] Speaker 5: I grew up to as a kid. I'd seen UFOs.
[3:39] Speaker 5: They followed me. It seemed to be something that I
[3:43] Speaker 5: just kind of got used to. And I lived out
[3:45] Speaker 5: in the country and I'd go walking such long distances.
[3:48] Speaker 5: And right when you really need a street light, I
[3:50] Speaker 5: would go out, you know, like, and then I've seen
[3:53] Speaker 5: the lights in the sky. And, you know, when I
[3:56] Speaker 5: went to visit one of my friends in another state,
[4:01] Speaker 5: that's when I saw the shadow being following her. And
[4:04] Speaker 5: then I suddenly started having these weird nightmares. I thought
[4:07] Speaker 5: were nightmares, mostly dreams. giant shadowy spiders coming at me
[4:13] Speaker 5: like man eater size. I'd wake up and it's filling
[4:17] Speaker 5: my entire ceiling, you know, and it would drop off
[4:19] Speaker 5: the ceiling. It just grows. Yeah.
[4:22] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[4:22] Speaker 5: And just start walking and wake me up. And I'm like,
[4:25] Speaker 5: I'm awake. I was dreaming. I was on the ceiling.
[4:27] Speaker 5: I open my eyes and it is on the ceiling
[4:29] Speaker 5: and then it drops down. Like, what kind of madness
[4:32] Speaker 5: is this? I had no idea what I was dealing with.
[4:34] Speaker 5: And then it became this whole thing where, you know,
[4:38] Speaker 5: I'm still experiencing the UFO things. The UFOs are responding.
[4:42] Speaker 5: And I'm not talking about just a light in the sky,
[4:44] Speaker 5: it's outright craft. I had a situation that I still,
[4:50] Speaker 5: I remember having the realization when I first had these
[4:53] Speaker 5: shadow people encounters, right? And I was staying at my
[4:57] Speaker 5: friend's family's home and they're very religious and they're like, oh,
[5:00] Speaker 5: you're into that demonic stuff. And I went into this
[5:03] Speaker 5: big empty lot behind her family's home and I just
[5:06] Speaker 5: looked up to the stars and I said, you know what?
[5:09] Speaker 5: If you have anything to do with anything evil, I
[5:12] Speaker 5: am done right now unless you show up right this moment.
[5:16] Speaker 5: And I saw the typical zigzags in the sky. And
[5:18] Speaker 5: I was so ticked, Ron. I was like, and that's
[5:21] Speaker 5: not good enough. And that's when this craft just appeared
[5:26] Speaker 5: right there. It was probably a couple of stories up.
[5:29] Speaker 5: I don't know, a few stories up. It lit up
[5:32] Speaker 5: the end of this lot and just streaked and just
[5:35] Speaker 5: lit up that entire lot. It looked like daylight all
[5:38] Speaker 5: of a sudden. I don't even know how to put
[5:40] Speaker 5: into words that recognition of they heard me first off.
[5:46] Speaker 5: And then to have that feeling I got that they
[5:50] Speaker 5: were there and they were there to support me in
[5:53] Speaker 5: some manner. And I was just like, you know, automatic tears.
[5:56] Speaker 5: I'm not a person that cries like that.
[5:58] Speaker 4: And I'm like, wow, you know.
[6:00] Speaker 5: But it was an outright connection, right? But I had
[6:03] Speaker 5: other instances too, where it was like, I'd seen so
[6:07] Speaker 5: many UFOs, like I lost track of them, right? And
[6:11] Speaker 5: I went with a group of friends. We were up
[6:13] Speaker 5: in Massachusetts somewhere and we all got out of the car.
[6:16] Speaker 5: There's like six of us. And we looked up into
[6:18] Speaker 5: the night sky and it looked like Star Wars. There
[6:21] Speaker 5: were dozens of crap in the sky, but there were,
[6:24] Speaker 5: you know, dots pretty high up. And they were like
[6:27] Speaker 5: shooting rays of light at each other. And we're like,
[6:31] Speaker 5: are we seeing what we're seeing? You know, I'm like,
[6:33] Speaker 5: I think so. Now, I'm standing right next to the
[6:37] Speaker 5: van that we all traveled in. My camera's right there.
[6:40] Speaker 5: But we're so mesmerized, like nobody wanted to take their
[6:43] Speaker 5: eyes off from what we're looking at. And then I
[6:45] Speaker 5: said something silly. I said, well, since you guys are
[6:48] Speaker 5: in the area, I have never seen a triangular shaped craft.
[6:52] Speaker 5: So if only you have a minute, a run, you
[6:55] Speaker 5: could have counted to three. This craft just completely dropped
[6:59] Speaker 5: out of the sky, like a couple stories up so quick.
[7:04] Speaker 5: We hit the dirt. Our faces are in the dirt.
[7:07] Speaker 5: And the craft is over my head and it's tilting
[7:10] Speaker 5: on its side. Like, you wanted to see this? You
[7:12] Speaker 5: wanted to see this? How about this side? And my
[7:14] Speaker 5: friend who's on the ground next to me is hitting me.
[7:17] Speaker 5: You asked for this thing? Tell it to go away. Like,
[7:20] Speaker 5: we didn't even want to stand up to grab our
[7:22] Speaker 5: cameras because we didn't know, was it going to smush us,
[7:24] Speaker 5: you know? How hard? It was just a couple of
[7:27] Speaker 5: stories above our heads. It wasn't that hard. I had
[7:30] Speaker 5: to say, I'm like, thank you very much. You can
[7:33] Speaker 5: go now. And just like that, went straight up.
[7:36] Speaker 4: That's crazy that twice you had direct, immediate response to
[7:42] Speaker 4: a request that you made to the sky. That's incredible.
[7:45] Speaker 4: Now let's go back to that original question and tell
[7:48] Speaker 4: me what you mean by this real alien war.
[7:51] Speaker 5: Yes. When it comes to this conflict and alien contact,
[7:55] Speaker 5: I'd had what I felt were positive interactions with an
[7:59] Speaker 5: unknown alien. of some sort in these crafts. I didn't
[8:02] Speaker 5: know what I was quite dealing with. And when I
[8:05] Speaker 5: started having some of the more direct interactions with an
[8:09] Speaker 5: alien being, with my college roommate, that's when things came
[8:12] Speaker 5: into picture to understand that what I had seen... As
[8:18] Speaker 5: far as these craft appearing was them, this more positive
[8:21] Speaker 5: being that presented himself. And he directly addressed a threat
[8:26] Speaker 5: going on and how we need to know better about it.
[8:30] Speaker 5: And he said, you call them shadow people. We call
[8:34] Speaker 5: them shadows. Blew my mind and went into this whole
[8:39] Speaker 5: storyline of there being essentially a force that had a
[8:44] Speaker 5: dark source that it came from. This was not the
[8:47] Speaker 5: first planet this type of thing has happened to. We
[8:50] Speaker 5: just happened to be next in line. But this dark
[8:53] Speaker 5: source had essentially impressed upon other dimensions, other planets. different
[8:59] Speaker 5: beings to turn on each other. And I was essentially
[9:03] Speaker 5: directed to understand that, you know, we wonder like the
[9:06] Speaker 5: gray alien beings, the reptilians, the praying mantis, what do
[9:10] Speaker 5: they have in common? You know, do kind of similar things,
[9:12] Speaker 5: but they do things differently. You don't always see them
[9:14] Speaker 5: in the same room with each other, but Nordics and grays.
[9:17] Speaker 5: And I was essentially told that when this dark source
[9:21] Speaker 5: is able to infiltrate a society and It will get
[9:25] Speaker 5: into the psyche of the beings that live there and
[9:28] Speaker 5: get them to essentially turn on each other, brother against brother.
[9:32] Speaker 5: I wasn't able to grasp as clear as I had
[9:35] Speaker 5: hoped initially, but it was made clear to me that
[9:38] Speaker 5: we were talking about possessed alien beings. That were conquered beings.
[9:43] Speaker 5: And they use that word. These are conquered beings that
[9:46] Speaker 5: don't quite answer or work together coherently, but they answer
[9:51] Speaker 5: to the same commanding source. Here I am. I'm a
[9:55] Speaker 5: college student. I don't know what on earth is going here.
[9:58] Speaker 5: All I know is I'm being absolutely blown away. away
[10:00] Speaker 5: with these horrific nightmares of something I've never seen before.
[10:03] Speaker 5: I know what ghosts look like. I know what ghosts
[10:05] Speaker 5: feel like. This presence felt very threatening, very nosy, very infiltrating.
[10:11] Speaker 5: And then to get this explanation from a being that
[10:14] Speaker 5: wasn't very, very forthcoming, like we had to know the
[10:17] Speaker 5: right questions to ask in order to get the right answers,
[10:20] Speaker 5: myself and my college roommates. And when it led to
[10:23] Speaker 5: talking about a source of darkness that was impressing upon
[10:28] Speaker 5: different beings to turn against each other and how this
[10:31] Speaker 5: was happening here, it was something that I just never
[10:33] Speaker 5: would have anticipated.
[10:34] Speaker 4: That is a lot to swallow. Let's take a break right.
[10:38] Speaker 3: Here, Heidi.
[10:38] Speaker 4: We'll come right back. Bad enough we've got the aliens coming,
[10:41] Speaker 4: now they're being attacked by these shadow beings apparently. You'll
[10:46] Speaker 4: see Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
[10:50] Speaker 4: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Okay, we're back on Beyond Contact
[11:05] Speaker 4: speaking with Heidi Hollis. Heidi, the shadow people not only
[11:09] Speaker 4: affect human beings, but they can affect alien races as well?
[11:13] Speaker 5: And they have, and this is part of their agenda.
[11:17] Speaker 5: I'm kind of mushing a whole lot in there because
[11:19] Speaker 5: this is many books in, you know, I'm like pushing
[11:22] Speaker 5: a lot in here and not explaining it fully. But yeah,
[11:26] Speaker 5: it's something that personally, I I had a hard time with.
[11:31] Speaker 5: I had a lot of questions, myself and my college roommate, Samantha,
[11:34] Speaker 5: just trying to let it sink in our heads. And
[11:37] Speaker 5: what I could understand from this infiltration of this source
[11:43] Speaker 5: of a kind, if we can acknowledge that people can
[11:46] Speaker 5: become possessed and levitate in the most demonic scenarios, this
[11:51] Speaker 5: is what we're talking about. There is something pulling the
[11:53] Speaker 5: strings of some of these beings that makes them more
[11:57] Speaker 5: of a coherent army of sorts that are here to
[12:01] Speaker 5: push upon us their will, their desires.
[12:04] Speaker 4: It sounds like some sort of demonic force or something
[12:07] Speaker 4: that you're referring to.
[12:08] Speaker 5: Exactly. And let me tell you, at the time, I
[12:10] Speaker 5: was somebody that had stepped away from the church. I
[12:13] Speaker 5: was not looking for this. I'm like, look, I've seen aliens.
[12:16] Speaker 5: I've seen angelic things. I've seen so many odd things
[12:19] Speaker 5: that I really had a hard time being schooled by
[12:23] Speaker 5: a being that was not human that I'd seen talking
[12:27] Speaker 5: about the battle of good and evil, essentially. And this
[12:31] Speaker 5: non-human being actually taught us how to keep the more
[12:35] Speaker 5: negative types away.
[12:37] Speaker 4: You seem to have an actual dialogue with this being.
[12:41] Speaker 4: He seemed very open, he or she, whatever. You refer
[12:45] Speaker 4: to it as an alien, though, or non-human. Did it
[12:48] Speaker 4: say what it was or where it's from or anything
[12:51] Speaker 4: give you any indication?
[12:52] Speaker 3: No.
[12:52] Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. We first were met with this being.
[12:56] Speaker 5: It started speaking through my college roommate who was Pentecostal,
[13:00] Speaker 5: super religious. Don't talk to me about your demon aliens.
[13:03] Speaker 5: I don't want anything to do with it. A lot
[13:05] Speaker 5: of my friends took that stance, you know, in college.
[13:08] Speaker 5: It's a being that was kind of a gelatinous, sparkly
[13:12] Speaker 5: being attached itself to the windshield of her car. and
[13:15] Speaker 5: started speaking to her initially, right? When it did this,
[13:19] Speaker 5: she said it had a really calming effect to it
[13:22] Speaker 5: where she was at ease. She started speaking to this
[13:25] Speaker 5: being and when it went to answer her back, she's like,
[13:28] Speaker 5: my mouth went numb and this voice started coming forward.
[13:32] Speaker 5: I met up with her immediately after school. Like, what
[13:34] Speaker 5: do you mean? What happened? And as she's telling me
[13:37] Speaker 5: this story, like the coolest story, finally one of my
[13:39] Speaker 5: friends is into the UFO topic. She was Puerto Rican
[13:43] Speaker 5: and she had a speech impediment. She had a very
[13:44] Speaker 5: strong accent. She's like telling me this story. She's like,
[13:47] Speaker 5: you know what? I need to meditate.
[13:49] Speaker 4: Give me a minute.
[13:50] Speaker 5: And I'm like, meditate?
[13:51] Speaker 4: Hold on.
[13:52] Speaker 5: I'm getting this really good story out of you. She
[13:54] Speaker 5: closes her eyes and this voice comes from her with
[13:58] Speaker 5: such a reduced accent and starts talking about DNA and,
[14:03] Speaker 5: and how it was very anxious to meet me. And
[14:05] Speaker 5: I'm like, what, what is going on? And it says,
[14:09] Speaker 5: I'm what you would call an alien being. And I'm like,
[14:11] Speaker 5: is she pulling my leg? You know what's going on here?
[14:14] Speaker 5: And then I said, okay, alien, where, where's your ship?
[14:17] Speaker 4: You know?
[14:18] Speaker 5: And he said, uh, Well, I can't come down as
[14:20] Speaker 5: low as I used to because your governments now know
[14:23] Speaker 5: how to shoot us out of the sky. And I'm like, oh, OK.
[14:26] Speaker 5: And I didn't even get to really respond.
[14:30] Speaker 4: Well, what's interesting, Heidi, as you know, we've heard that. Oh, yes. Yeah.
[14:33] Speaker 5: And this is 1996, 97.
[14:36] Speaker 3: Right.
[14:36] Speaker 5: And I'm like, you know, thinking like, well, of course,
[14:39] Speaker 5: you can't show your ship. I'm thinking it's like and
[14:41] Speaker 5: he offers. Yeah, but I think I'm close enough to
[14:44] Speaker 5: project an image of myself. And I'm like, come again, you.
[14:47] Speaker 4: Know, better than a ship. Yeah.
[14:49] Speaker 5: I was like, hold on. What are we talking about here?
[14:51] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[14:53] Speaker 5: The car was sitting in my car and the car
[14:55] Speaker 5: starts humming.
[14:56] Speaker 4: Right.
[14:56] Speaker 5: And this tiny little creature that kind of looked like
[15:01] Speaker 5: a child. pink, fleshy looking being. And I mean, I'm
[15:06] Speaker 5: pinning myself up against the side of the car. I'm like, OK,
[15:09] Speaker 5: I believe you. I see if I see you like
[15:11] Speaker 5: you can stop now type of thing. And it just
[15:13] Speaker 5: fades away. And I'm like, so now I know it's real.
[15:17] Speaker 5: I know that she's not playing with me.
[15:19] Speaker 4: You both saw this appear in the car.
[15:21] Speaker 5: She had her eyes closed, but she did describe him.
[15:24] Speaker 5: And she's actually drawn. I have an image here behind me.
[15:27] Speaker 5: And she did draw him exactly as I seen him.
[15:30] Speaker 5: So she'd seen him. Yeah. And, you know, right after
[15:34] Speaker 5: she'd had her explosion of I want to learn everything,
[15:36] Speaker 5: we're sitting there this the same evening and are like,
[15:39] Speaker 5: I think you.
[15:39] Speaker 4: Could do it again.
[15:40] Speaker 5: You know, can you reach out again? You know, and
[15:43] Speaker 5: we're college kids. So what do you think we ask, Ron?
[15:46] Speaker 5: What are the lottery numbers?
[15:47] Speaker 4: Right.
[15:49] Speaker 5: We're totally asking the stupid questions. He would say it
[15:53] Speaker 5: would not benefit you to know that.
[15:55] Speaker 4: Just give it to me. I'm worried about that. Yeah.
[15:58] Speaker 5: I'm like, what planet are you from? If I told
[16:00] Speaker 5: you what planet I was from, you wouldn't understand where
[16:02] Speaker 5: it is. And I'm like, OK, you got me there.
[16:04] Speaker 5: So it was always a blocked response. So, no, I
[16:07] Speaker 5: didn't get any information there. And I'm like, well, what
[16:10] Speaker 5: the heck? What's the point? And now this happened trial
[16:13] Speaker 5: after trial, you know, many times over. And I'm like, well,
[16:16] Speaker 5: this isn't fun anymore. You know, I'm like, he's not
[16:18] Speaker 5: answering anything. I know he's real, but why is he
[16:21] Speaker 5: not talking? And it wasn't until I had shared this
[16:25] Speaker 5: very vivid dream I had that it was not common
[16:28] Speaker 5: for me to have. And what I saw was the
[16:30] Speaker 5: moon coming towards the earth to destroy it. But then
[16:33] Speaker 5: a ship, a UFO, appeared alongside of it. and started
[16:37] Speaker 5: pulling the moon so it didn't absolutely kill us. So
[16:40] Speaker 5: I bring this up. I'm like, I don't know. I
[16:42] Speaker 5: had a weird dream. You know anything about dreams, you know?
[16:45] Speaker 5: And he goes, oh, I don't do dreams, but I'll
[16:47] Speaker 5: tell you what it was. The darkness in your planet
[16:50] Speaker 5: was pulling the moon towards the earth We saw it,
[16:53] Speaker 5: we intervened, and we stopped it. And that's when he said,
[16:56] Speaker 5: you call them shadow people, we call them shadows. And
[16:59] Speaker 5: that was the beginning of the explanation of this whole
[17:03] Speaker 5: conversation when it comes to hat man and shadow people.
[17:06] Speaker 5: People think I went and researched this. I'm like, how?
[17:10] Speaker 5: I'm a therapist now. I was on a really difficult program.
[17:13] Speaker 5: I was working multiple jobs. I didn't know anybody had
[17:15] Speaker 5: experienced these outside myself and the one friend at another state.
[17:19] Speaker 5: I had nothing to go on. I was told about
[17:22] Speaker 5: how there are after people's souls on and on and on.
[17:25] Speaker 5: And I'm like, is this the battle of all battles?
[17:28] Speaker 5: And this went on for a long period of time,
[17:31] Speaker 5: talking to this being for years.
[17:33] Speaker 4: For years you had visitation from this being? The same
[17:37] Speaker 4: physical way he did that first time?
[17:39] Speaker 5: No, he would speak through my friend who would never
[17:43] Speaker 5: call it channeling. She would never. She was like, I
[17:46] Speaker 5: happen to meditate and they happen to meet me there.
[17:49] Speaker 5: But I also had these types of interactions on a
[17:54] Speaker 5: more interdimensional level. Like I would remember being on board
[17:58] Speaker 5: their ship, going through their hallways and talking and stuff
[18:02] Speaker 5: with so many different beings. I just don't even know
[18:05] Speaker 5: how many to count. So it's like I didn't have
[18:08] Speaker 5: that kind of questioning. You know what I mean? Like, well,
[18:10] Speaker 5: this can't be real. And at the time, I was
[18:14] Speaker 5: going to another UFO group at the time. And then
[18:16] Speaker 5: when that ended, I started my own that lasted for
[18:18] Speaker 5: 15 years. But the one that I was going to,
[18:21] Speaker 5: it was all made up of people who have been
[18:23] Speaker 5: abducted and absolutely violated and slept with guns and knives
[18:27] Speaker 5: in their rooms, you know? So here I come having
[18:30] Speaker 5: craft appear on demand and communicating. And then I'm talking
[18:34] Speaker 5: about a friendly being who's talking about how to protect
[18:37] Speaker 5: yourself against these more infiltrating beings, which were shadow people,
[18:42] Speaker 5: negative abducting alien beings, any type that was abusing people.
[18:47] Speaker 5: And now this is the part, Ron, that really blew
[18:49] Speaker 5: my mind because, again, I had stepped away from beliefs
[18:52] Speaker 5: of the church. Like I'm experiencing something that is a
[18:55] Speaker 5: lot more real to me. And this being says to myself,
[18:59] Speaker 5: why did you stop praying?
[19:01] Speaker 4: Wow. Wow. He knows that even is crazy.
[19:06] Speaker 5: That he knew that. And then he said, we take
[19:09] Speaker 5: our order straight from Christ. And he is who he
[19:12] Speaker 5: says he is. It shook up everything because I was
[19:16] Speaker 5: a big critic. people who said, you know, back then, oh,
[19:19] Speaker 5: Jesus is in my piece of toast. He's in a
[19:22] Speaker 5: tree trunk. I'm like, give me a break. I put
[19:25] Speaker 5: a whole chapter in my book, The Secret War, bashing
[19:28] Speaker 5: that idea that people were seeing Christ because I'm like,
[19:31] Speaker 5: I'd seen angelic like beings. And I'm like, well, obviously
[19:34] Speaker 5: they were mistaken. You know, I was totally critical. And
[19:38] Speaker 5: just before I put that book out, I had my
[19:40] Speaker 5: first encounter with Christ that changed everything for me. And,
[19:44] Speaker 5: you know, If I weren't somebody that trusts themselves, I
[19:48] Speaker 5: trust myself. I know myself. I didn't have any kind
[19:53] Speaker 5: of thought to ever doubt that what I'd seen was true.
[19:57] Speaker 5: And it's something that the being had told me the first, gosh,
[20:02] Speaker 5: I don't know, first year, I think, that we had
[20:04] Speaker 5: the contact with him is we had helped in essentially
[20:09] Speaker 5: making you different so your soul would remain in that body. Well,
[20:13] Speaker 5: that's a weird thing to say. What was that?
[20:16] Speaker 4: You've never heard anything like that, no.
[20:18] Speaker 5: No, and it's in the book. And I said, well,
[20:21] Speaker 5: how different? And he said something. You were made different
[20:24] Speaker 5: through timing. I couldn't understand that either. Even though I'm
[20:30] Speaker 5: in the medical field, it just didn't dawn on me.
[20:33] Speaker 5: But now today, and speaking about the new book, Indeed,
[20:38] Speaker 5: I was made different through timing, meaning the different stages
[20:42] Speaker 5: of your development as an embryo. Something changed at every stage.
[20:48] Speaker 4: Wow. Crazy. All right, Heidi. When we come back, we're
[20:51] Speaker 4: going to go deeper into what Heidi thinks these intelligences
[20:55] Speaker 4: actually are and whether UFOs, consciousness, spirituality, all the different
[21:00] Speaker 4: paranormal elements may be different pieces of the same puzzle.
[21:04] Speaker 4: Who knows? You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
[21:07] Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
[21:23] Speaker 6: We are back and we're speaking with Heidi Hollis. One
[21:27] Speaker 6: thing that runs through a lot of these experiences, just
[21:31] Speaker 6: us talking the last 20 minutes here, seems that there's
[21:34] Speaker 6: some spiritual elements to this. There's UFO encounters, paranormal experiences.
[21:39] Speaker 6: Even these ideas about the afterlife seem to tie in
[21:43] Speaker 6: or overlap. Whitley Strieber and some others have mentioned it.
[21:47] Speaker 6: You've mentioned it tonight. Do you believe they're connected? And
[21:51] Speaker 6: if so, how do you think they're connected?
[21:53] Speaker 5: I know for certain that they're connected. And it's been
[21:55] Speaker 5: my stance for all these years, these decades I've been
[21:58] Speaker 5: working on this, that matters of the soul are of
[22:03] Speaker 5: big importance to these different beings as well as it
[22:06] Speaker 5: is for ourselves. You know, religion and beliefs here has
[22:10] Speaker 5: fueled a lot of wars, needless to say.
[22:12] Speaker 4: They even say that they come here to get our
[22:15] Speaker 4: souls because that's something we hear.
[22:18] Speaker 5: Absolutely. And, you know, imagine way back then, and I
[22:21] Speaker 5: was stepping forward saying that, and it's like, well, who's
[22:24] Speaker 5: this girl talking about? You know, the book was called
[22:27] Speaker 5: The Secret War, The Heavens Speak of the Battle. That
[22:30] Speaker 5: was the first subtitle. And they're like, the heavens? Why
[22:33] Speaker 5: do you want to speak at a UFO conference? You know,
[22:36] Speaker 5: it was so like, you believe in God or you
[22:38] Speaker 5: believe in the aliens? And I'm like, they both can exist.
[22:41] Speaker 5: And here I was being told by a non-human being
[22:45] Speaker 5: that if you want to protect yourself from beings that
[22:48] Speaker 5: you don't want in your space, you use the name
[22:50] Speaker 5: of Christ and they will leave. And here I am,
[22:54] Speaker 5: you know, putting my little self-published book. I had sent
[22:57] Speaker 5: it out all over the place, by the way, before
[23:00] Speaker 5: I could get a publisher. It took me two months
[23:02] Speaker 5: to write it, Ron, in 1997, four years to finally
[23:05] Speaker 5: get it published.
[23:06] Speaker 4: Oh my God.
[23:07] Speaker 5: I had sent it to all these other people who
[23:09] Speaker 5: wrote books like me because they were the ones publishing
[23:13] Speaker 5: stuff like this.
[23:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[23:14] Speaker 5: I'm like, if other people had mentioned shadow people, they
[23:17] Speaker 5: probably had a copy of my book because I sent
[23:19] Speaker 5: it to them. I was trying anything to get it published. And,
[23:23] Speaker 5: you know, to finally take that step forward and start
[23:25] Speaker 5: talking about this, it was really a lot of wrinkled
[23:29] Speaker 5: foreheads going, pew, science fiction. And then the ghost hunters
[23:34] Speaker 5: came at me. They're like, you're talking about the shadows
[23:37] Speaker 5: of ghosts. And I'm like, then you haven't seen a
[23:39] Speaker 5: shadow being, you know. It took a lot to convince people.
[23:43] Speaker 5: that what it was that I was talking about was real.
[23:45] Speaker 5: And I'm like, are you having non-human beings infiltrating your
[23:49] Speaker 5: space that you don't want there? Use the name of
[23:51] Speaker 5: Jesus to see what happens. And slowly people are like,
[23:54] Speaker 5: oh my gosh, that's working, you know? And now I'm
[23:57] Speaker 5: hearing of studies of this. I'm like, yay, you know?
[23:59] Speaker 4: Well, I definitely heard first person accounts where people said
[24:02] Speaker 4: they invoked the name of Jesus, even with like an
[24:05] Speaker 4: alien gray encounter. And that can shut it down sometimes.
[24:09] Speaker 5: This is supposed to be a blanket thing to do
[24:11] Speaker 5: against any of these beings, reptilians, greys, shadow beings, hat man.
[24:16] Speaker 5: And it's so very important and it's been so very
[24:19] Speaker 5: useful because a lot of people feel defenseless. They're being victimized.
[24:24] Speaker 5: And I tell people, you know, if they question, oh,
[24:26] Speaker 5: shadow people, aliens are totally separate. And I'm like, well,
[24:29] Speaker 5: think about they generally do come at night. Not always.
[24:33] Speaker 5: They wait to go to sleep. Then they paralyze you.
[24:37] Speaker 5: And then they give you bad dreams. And then they say,
[24:39] Speaker 5: gotcha now. And sometimes they'll take your soul right out
[24:43] Speaker 5: of your body. I'm like, they got a whole lot
[24:45] Speaker 5: in common. This is such a parallel like experience to
[24:49] Speaker 5: think that these beings that greys or reptilians or whatever,
[24:53] Speaker 5: might be directly responding and working for the same source
[24:59] Speaker 5: as shadow people and hat men. Hello, something kind of
[25:04] Speaker 5: wild to me, like just about four years ago, somebody
[25:07] Speaker 5: sent me this image of a bust of an alien being, right?
[25:11] Speaker 5: And I'm like, this is amazing. I'm like, who did
[25:14] Speaker 5: the perfect rendition of hat man's true face? And my
[25:17] Speaker 5: friend who sent it to me was like, what the heck, Heidi?
[25:20] Speaker 5: That is called Ahriman. And I was like, who's Ahriman?
[25:24] Speaker 5: And said that that is something that Rudolf Steiner, the
[25:28] Speaker 5: founder of Anthroposophy, created 100 years ago. And he said,
[25:32] Speaker 5: 100 years from now, this creature, Ahriman, would be coming
[25:37] Speaker 5: forward into society. And here I am, you know, being
[25:41] Speaker 5: the only person who's ever discovered, named, defined Ahriman. and
[25:45] Speaker 5: warned the world and even trademarked two phenomena, shadow people
[25:50] Speaker 5: and hat man. And I tell you, it's been quite
[25:53] Speaker 5: a haul because there's a lot of people that have
[25:56] Speaker 5: their certain ideas. And I got to remind people that
[25:59] Speaker 5: these were not my ideas. This was dictated from a being,
[26:03] Speaker 5: I've held true to that this whole time, who has
[26:07] Speaker 5: said and spoke the name of Christ. And with this
[26:11] Speaker 5: being said this, right, I heard them, but it hadn't
[26:14] Speaker 5: really quite sunk in for myself. How would that actually work?
[26:19] Speaker 5: But I was experiencing a lot of shadow people and
[26:22] Speaker 5: shadow spiders at the time. And I did, and it
[26:26] Speaker 5: did work. But when I said, the way you're talking
[26:30] Speaker 5: about this, I mean, this sounds like biblical stuff. Like,
[26:33] Speaker 5: are you telling me you're an angel or something? And
[26:36] Speaker 5: he said... We've been called a lot of things throughout history,
[26:40] Speaker 5: but there is only one true God and Christ is
[26:43] Speaker 5: who we are commanded by. And that just, you know,
[26:46] Speaker 5: a lot of times that that's a part that people
[26:48] Speaker 5: would cut off from my whole dialogue that I've been
[26:51] Speaker 5: talking about all these decades. Like, oh, that's just too
[26:54] Speaker 5: far fetched, Heidi. You know, I'm like, I said, you know,
[26:56] Speaker 5: I just got to be true to it and be
[26:58] Speaker 5: honest about it. And I'm glad that I did because
[27:01] Speaker 5: it's brought me full circle to where I am now
[27:04] Speaker 5: with my new book, The Anomalies and Understanding. Others were watching.
[27:09] Speaker 5: This is something that on a very high levels, Vatican connections,
[27:13] Speaker 5: CIA connections, and they actually helped me to better understand
[27:18] Speaker 5: the bigger picture that they already knew about. I was
[27:22] Speaker 5: putting together myself. I got my memories back spontaneously about
[27:28] Speaker 5: what I was supposed to be doing here in this
[27:30] Speaker 5: lifetime and different things. But it really drives it home
[27:35] Speaker 5: when you have government people making sure you got the message. Right.
[27:39] Speaker 4: And the fact that they even know about this and
[27:42] Speaker 4: are willing to talk to you about it is incredible. Yeah. Well,
[27:45] Speaker 4: seeing that across the board, Chris Bledsoe, as I mentioned,
[27:49] Speaker 4: recently talked about that. Other people have said that they've
[27:52] Speaker 4: interacted with people in the government. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's
[27:55] Speaker 4: a change we're seeing.
[27:57] Speaker 5: It is. You know, there's a bit of anger for
[28:01] Speaker 5: myself because I have seen people lose their jobs, lose
[28:04] Speaker 5: their spouse, lose their minds, their sense of peace as
[28:08] Speaker 5: our government and others in the know just let it
[28:11] Speaker 5: happen or even threaten them, did the little men in
[28:14] Speaker 5: black type of situation on them. And it's infuriating because
[28:19] Speaker 5: I don't know what, what they're thinking, but I do
[28:22] Speaker 5: understand that. And I've said it from the start when
[28:25] Speaker 5: this disclosure started, I'm like, I'm glad they're talking about it,
[28:29] Speaker 5: but I don't believe they'll ever give the goods up because, uh,
[28:32] Speaker 5: A lot of them would go to prison. They're not
[28:34] Speaker 5: going to do that.
[28:35] Speaker 4: I absolutely stick to my they're not going to disclose.
[28:39] Speaker 4: What they're giving us is nonsense. But I do like it,
[28:41] Speaker 4: I'll be honest, Heidi, because the fact that they're talking
[28:44] Speaker 4: about UFOs and the government's talking about it, that makes
[28:47] Speaker 4: people outside of our community take this topic more serious,
[28:51] Speaker 4: maybe ask questions, maybe be more aware, and maybe start
[28:54] Speaker 4: to think that, you know what, there might be something
[28:56] Speaker 4: to this. And I like that.
[28:58] Speaker 3: I do.
[28:58] Speaker 5: I do love that. I'm glad the conversation is happening,
[29:01] Speaker 5: but people are placing their bets and pausing their lives.
[29:05] Speaker 5: Here it comes, everybody. And I'm like, you know what?
[29:08] Speaker 5: We stand on the shoulders of a lot of great
[29:09] Speaker 5: people in this field who really put everything into it
[29:13] Speaker 5: and sometimes lost their lives to it. We have to
[29:17] Speaker 5: trust each other sometime and don't think that we're all
[29:20] Speaker 5: aiming to pull the wool over each other's eyes. Like
[29:22] Speaker 5: there has to be a level of trust and less competition,
[29:27] Speaker 5: less bashing of each other. And, you know, just go
[29:31] Speaker 5: from there.
[29:31] Speaker 4: I despise all of that. I can't even stand how
[29:34] Speaker 4: we even have that in this. community. Yeah. But, you know,
[29:37] Speaker 4: nobody really knows what the hell is going on. We
[29:39] Speaker 4: all have ideas and we all have different stories. And
[29:43] Speaker 4: nobody really knows definitively. So it's hard to be critical
[29:47] Speaker 4: of the other ones.
[29:48] Speaker 5: It truly is. I think that if we continue that route,
[29:53] Speaker 5: we're going to really go downhill. We have to just...
[29:56] Speaker 5: go the route of leaning on each other and making
[29:58] Speaker 5: the disclosure among ourselves, you know?
[30:01] Speaker 4: That's what's got to happen, and I think that will
[30:03] Speaker 4: happen as more and more people are coming forward, which
[30:06] Speaker 4: I think is great. We need to take another quick
[30:08] Speaker 4: break here, Heidi. When we come back, we're going to
[30:10] Speaker 4: ask you more about this phenomenon, which you're probably best
[30:14] Speaker 4: known for, of course, which is shadow people and the
[30:16] Speaker 4: hat man, and find out whether these non-human entities might
[30:20] Speaker 4: ultimately tell us something much larger about the nature of
[30:24] Speaker 4: reality itself. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
[30:27] Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We are
[30:40] Speaker 4: back on Beyond Context speaking with Heidi Hollis. Heidi, you're
[30:43] Speaker 4: credited with popularizing the term shadow people and coining the
[30:47] Speaker 4: hat man. For somebody who's never encountered one, and I
[30:53] Speaker 4: don't want to, what exactly is a shadow person that distinguishes?
[30:58] Speaker 4: And then the hat man, how does that separate from
[31:01] Speaker 4: shadow people and from other types of non-human intelligences?
[31:05] Speaker 5: Yeah, so shadow beings are essentially minions for the hat man.
[31:09] Speaker 5: They are shapeshifters. They can take on a variety of forms.
[31:13] Speaker 5: You'll think there's, you know, something just flew past you
[31:15] Speaker 5: really quickly or you see something luminous over you, you know, hanging.
[31:20] Speaker 5: You know, it's this horrible feeling that you tend to get.
[31:24] Speaker 5: Sometimes they have slanted, glowing red eyes. They growl. They whisper.
[31:29] Speaker 5: But generally, if you spot them, they'll either bum rush
[31:33] Speaker 5: you or they'll scatter as fast as they can. Hat Man,
[31:37] Speaker 5: he is a form of evil to its fullest extent.
[31:41] Speaker 5: Let's put it that way. I had once categorized him
[31:44] Speaker 5: as being another form that shadow people took, but I
[31:47] Speaker 5: was mistaken because, yeah, he could blend in with shadows
[31:50] Speaker 5: and wearing often a wide brim hat or a top
[31:54] Speaker 5: hat or no hat at all. But you'll see a
[31:56] Speaker 5: three-piece suit. trench coat or a cape. Sometimes people see
[32:01] Speaker 5: a watch on his hip, but he'll blend into the
[32:04] Speaker 5: shadows and then he'll also step out of the shadows.
[32:07] Speaker 5: And if you see his skin, generally his eyes are
[32:09] Speaker 5: solid black. If you don't, if he shows his eyes
[32:12] Speaker 5: and he's more in shadow form, you'll see glowing red.
[32:15] Speaker 5: He loves to talk. He loves to threaten. He loves
[32:19] Speaker 5: to beat people. He loves to abuse them in every
[32:23] Speaker 5: form that you can imagine.
[32:25] Speaker 4: What do you mean beat people? You mean people have
[32:26] Speaker 4: physically been assaulted by the hat man?
[32:28] Speaker 5: Absolutely. Absolutely. He likes to cause people a lot of
[32:32] Speaker 5: stress and havoc. And I've had so many people that
[32:36] Speaker 5: are like, hold on, I've never seen anything weird in
[32:38] Speaker 5: my life. But my dad died a day after he
[32:40] Speaker 5: showed up, you know, or I saw this guy on
[32:43] Speaker 5: the side of the road. All of a sudden a
[32:45] Speaker 5: tree fell on my car. You know, they notice the patterns.
[32:48] Speaker 5: I was first put his image up on my website.
[32:51] Speaker 5: So all those years ago, people started saying, who is he?
[32:54] Speaker 5: He's the devil, isn't he? Like they started answering that outright.
[32:58] Speaker 5: And then he started telling people I'm the devil himself.
[33:01] Speaker 4: I am.
[33:01] Speaker 5: My name is Scratch, the old Norse term. So many
[33:04] Speaker 5: horrific stories. I think probably the worst are the near
[33:08] Speaker 5: killing of oneself type of scenarios. He is good for that.
[33:14] Speaker 5: One of the reasons people ask, why did you trademark it?
[33:16] Speaker 5: I'm like, well, ask Stan Lee why he trademarked Spider-Man.
[33:19] Speaker 5: But I did it for a reason to try to
[33:21] Speaker 5: control the narrative because there's people who are pushing the
[33:24] Speaker 5: idea that's nothing to worry about here. And then there's
[33:27] Speaker 5: these odd challenges to try to conjure these things. And
[33:31] Speaker 5: people have died, quite literally. And I'm beyond that with
[33:37] Speaker 5: anger because it's just so much. But this being.
[33:42] Speaker 5: I tell people that it's not just a possibility and
[33:46] Speaker 5: his minions, it's a threat. And that was something that
[33:49] Speaker 5: was made very clear to me by these alien beings
[33:51] Speaker 5: that I had the contact with. They told me the
[33:54] Speaker 5: different stages of things that were going to be coming.
[33:56] Speaker 5: And I put it in the book and they've all
[33:58] Speaker 5: been following to play here. They told me there would
[34:01] Speaker 5: be a time of change and that these shadow and
[34:04] Speaker 5: hat man beings would be coming more into the forefront
[34:07] Speaker 5: to such a level. You'll know that that time is
[34:09] Speaker 5: coming close. And then they gave this hint, Ron, of
[34:13] Speaker 5: when they discover a new color. You know we've discovered
[34:17] Speaker 5: a new color, right?
[34:19] Speaker 4: No, I'm unaware of anything in the world. When did
[34:22] Speaker 4: that happen?
[34:23] Speaker 5: Oh, gosh, there's been actually a couple of them in
[34:25] Speaker 5: the past year or so. And I believe it's like
[34:28] Speaker 5: some kind of a tint of blue.
[34:30] Speaker 4: It wasn't blue, was it?
[34:32] Speaker 5: Bluish green or something. Yeah, I can't remember the name
[34:34] Speaker 5: they gave it. But yeah, and they've absolutely done that.
[34:38] Speaker 5: Anything that has like a horrible negative vibe to it,
[34:42] Speaker 5: like during COVID, people getting sick. Oh, there was an earthquake.
[34:46] Speaker 5: It rises because people are distressed. And when we are
[34:49] Speaker 5: most vulnerable, that's when these things actually come more to
[34:52] Speaker 5: the surface. You know, people are like, I feel something's
[34:55] Speaker 5: going to happen. they almost seem anxious for this end
[34:58] Speaker 5: of the world scenario. And I'm like, we.
[35:00] Speaker 4: Have gone throughout history. People, there's people that feel that way. What,
[35:05] Speaker 4: what do you think convinces you that these are actually
[35:08] Speaker 4: external entities of some kind, some sort of alien presence
[35:14] Speaker 4: or whatever, rather than just something like sleep paralysis or.
[35:18] Speaker 4: Oh boy. Or neurological phenomenon. What makes you convinced that
[35:23] Speaker 4: it's an actual being?
[35:25] Speaker 5: In my schooling, they taught us about sleep paralysis. This
[35:28] Speaker 5: is not sleep paralysis that wears a hat and has
[35:31] Speaker 5: conversations about taking your soul. That conversation got popular when
[35:35] Speaker 5: somebody essentially ripped off my material and did a film
[35:39] Speaker 5: and spoke to somebody like a lot of people are
[35:41] Speaker 5: experiencing this. What is it? And they gave that title
[35:44] Speaker 5: to it. And now everybody's like, I have sleep paralysis.
[35:47] Speaker 5: I'm like, no, this and this is not a medical opinion.
[35:51] Speaker 5: I'm just sharing. I think that the scientific community had
[35:55] Speaker 5: to put people at ease and threw that on there
[35:58] Speaker 5: so they could give them something to sleep through the
[36:00] Speaker 5: night better. And it's, it scares me because I know
[36:04] Speaker 5: what happens on the other end of that. And unfortunately, uh,
[36:08] Speaker 5: There's a lot of work to be done in that arena.
[36:09] Speaker 5: But yeah, the hat man himself, like I was saying,
[36:13] Speaker 5: this image of this guy is not him. It looks
[36:16] Speaker 5: like a bigger, like, gray alien being. I have it
[36:19] Speaker 5: on my main website, HeidiHallis.com, on the first page. You'll
[36:22] Speaker 5: see what he looks like.
[36:24] Speaker 4: Like you said, it does look like an alien being
[36:26] Speaker 4: to people. Do you think some of these different categories,
[36:30] Speaker 4: let's say aliens, shadow people, jinn, angels, demons, spirits, other
[36:35] Speaker 4: beings associated with the afterlife and other realms, could they
[36:38] Speaker 4: actually be different time and cultural interpretations of different intelligences,
[36:44] Speaker 4: but they're maybe originating from the same larger reality? Oh, yeah.
[36:48] Speaker 5: I think some things even exist without having a title
[36:51] Speaker 5: to it. So, yeah, I think we use our words
[36:53] Speaker 5: differently in different cultures and it's all the same thing.
[36:56] Speaker 5: I tell people, and this is something that was important,
[36:59] Speaker 5: the alien beings indicated to myself, well, how can you
[37:02] Speaker 5: decipher what's in front of you? And they said, God
[37:04] Speaker 5: gave you this gut to be able to decipher what's
[37:07] Speaker 5: in front of you. And because it can shapeshift, it
[37:10] Speaker 5: could cause conflict and alien contact where you don't know
[37:12] Speaker 5: if that's a good guy or the bad guy from
[37:14] Speaker 5: the other night. You don't know. They said to close
[37:16] Speaker 5: your eyes and feel what's in front of you and
[37:19] Speaker 5: use Christ's name to know for certain because they can't
[37:22] Speaker 5: handle his name.
[37:23] Speaker 4: Wow. Hey, we're almost out of time here. Tell me
[37:26] Speaker 4: about this Anomalies, your latest book that just came out.
[37:29] Speaker 5: Yeah, the book, The Anomalies, that involved learning from Vatican
[37:34] Speaker 5: consultants that essentially the timing that I mentioned has formed
[37:39] Speaker 5: what patterns to be what's seen on the Shroud of Turin.
[37:42] Speaker 5: I wouldn't have never gone there. It's something that I
[37:45] Speaker 5: really have a hard time understanding and accepting and took
[37:49] Speaker 5: five years to try to disprove what the Vatican was
[37:52] Speaker 5: trying to indicate to me until the CIA forensic scientists
[37:56] Speaker 5: came forward and helped confirm that this is something not
[38:01] Speaker 5: seen before that. the Vatican was accurate in calling it
[38:05] Speaker 5: a form of stigmata never seen before. And I'm Methodist.
[38:09] Speaker 5: I wasn't raised to understand ideas of the Catholics. I'd
[38:12] Speaker 5: seen the horror movie Stigmata. I didn't know what they
[38:15] Speaker 5: were really referencing. But it's been coming full circle. And actually,
[38:20] Speaker 5: it's difficult even speaking on it right now because I'm
[38:24] Speaker 5: rather new to it. And it's something that I just
[38:27] Speaker 5: I'm learning to approach and it's been interesting. You know,
[38:31] Speaker 5: there are things that are here and there are volunteers
[38:34] Speaker 5: and I just call myself a volunteer because I do
[38:37] Speaker 5: remember before I was born and I've been talking about
[38:40] Speaker 5: that since the beginning. And I remember agreeing to be
[38:42] Speaker 5: born here to introduce these demonic things, how to protect
[38:46] Speaker 5: yourself against them and just kind of going forward and
[38:49] Speaker 5: then to get scientific evidence that proves it. It's just
[38:52] Speaker 5: mind blowing and has brought everything kind of full circle
[38:55] Speaker 5: and just kind of doing my best.
[38:57] Speaker 4: Those are big things to get your head around. Heidi,
[39:00] Speaker 4: thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. Guys,
[39:03] Speaker 4: you can find her books and more information about her
[39:06] Speaker 4: work at HeidiHollis.com. Also, please check out Ancient Mysteries Conference
[39:10] Speaker 4: at EdgarCasey.org. I'm going to be there this October. It's
[39:14] Speaker 4: going to be an incredible event. You can use Beyond
[39:16] Speaker 4: 50 to save $ 50. You can also find me on
[39:19] Speaker 4: X on Instagram at CITB underscore Captain Ron and stay
[39:22] Speaker 4: connected with everything we're doing here at ContactInTheDesert.com. Stay open-minded
[39:27] Speaker 4: and rational as we explore the unknown right here on
[39:30] Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio and Postal Code AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
[39:50] Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
[39:52] Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
[39:55] Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
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