# Knights Templar - Best of Coast to Coast AM - 9/29/26

An episode of [The Best of Coast to Coast AM](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1206175991), 30 Sep 2026, 20 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/61c1535a-56bb-431a-ad6b-ae2b00350f5c/03b63d9e-3ac0-4f81-9b0c-b4d5009d893b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=b95f0c24-c199-4939-b52c-ae2b00350f65

George Noory and author Kathleen Ball discuss her efforts to find the treasures of the medieval group of warriors the Knights Templar, how they helped influence society during the Dark Ages, and why the group went underground but could still secretly be operating today. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
[0:05] Speaker 2: And welcome back. George Norrie with you.
[0:07] Speaker 3: Kathleen Ball back with us, a researcher, author, documentary filmmaker,
[0:11] Speaker 3: best known for her discovery of a Knights Templar cave
[0:14] Speaker 3: in Brazil. Her ongoing boots-on-the-ground research, which has resulted in
[0:19] Speaker 3: her documentary series, currently involves the Templars' secret agenda. She
[0:24] Speaker 3: is currently in the UK exploring Templar strongholds and caves.
[0:28] Speaker 3: Very secret caves indeed.
[0:31] Speaker 2: Kathleen, welcome. How are you?
[0:34] Speaker 4: Well, hi. It's good to see you.
[0:36] Speaker 5: Good to talk to you, I guess I should say.
[0:38] Speaker 2: We can see you, though. What's new? You're in the
[0:41] Speaker 2: United Kingdom tonight, aren't you?
[0:44] Speaker 4: Yes, I'm currently in the UK right now. I'm in Scotland.
[0:47] Speaker 5: I'm in Roslyn, just about two blocks from the Roslyn Chapel.
[0:53] Speaker 5: I've been doing research here for about a week now.
[0:57] Speaker 5: And I'm getting ready to go into Portugal for about
[1:02] Speaker 5: a week. Then I'm coming back and I'm going into
[1:04] Speaker 5: the Weimus Caves, which have become a pretty big deal.
[1:10] Speaker 5: The Weimus Caves are where the Templars hid treasure before
[1:14] Speaker 5: it was transported over to North America and then eventually
[1:18] Speaker 5: used for the War of Independence.
[1:20] Speaker 4: So I'm going to be going over.
[1:22] Speaker 5: I'm really excited about this particular trip. Into the Weemis Caves,
[1:28] Speaker 5: and then I'll also be going to see the castle,
[1:32] Speaker 5: the Sinclair Castle down in that area and investigate, see
[1:37] Speaker 5: if there's anything there, you know, that at least I
[1:39] Speaker 5: can get some great photos of the site as well
[1:43] Speaker 5: and get a sense of, you know, just how broad
[1:46] Speaker 5: their territory was during the time of the Templars.
[1:50] Speaker 2: What got you interested in the Templars?
[1:55] Speaker 1: Oh, God.
[1:58] Speaker 5: I just have been studying the Templars for so long now.
[2:01] Speaker 4: I can't even really remember.
[2:03] Speaker 5: It was sort of one thing led to the next,
[2:05] Speaker 5: you know, I had been researching and I had been,
[2:08] Speaker 5: you know, studying Leonardo da Vinci's works for years.
[2:11] Speaker 4: And eventually that led me into.
[2:13] Speaker 5: Secret societies and secret societies, you know, led me to
[2:17] Speaker 5: the Templars eventually. Sometime in the 1990s, that transition took
[2:24] Speaker 5: place and, You know, then it really sort of jump-started
[2:28] Speaker 5: in 2009 when I went into Dome, France, and was
[2:32] Speaker 5: handed the keys to the dungeon where the Templars were
[2:35] Speaker 5: held from 1307 to 1310.
[2:38] Speaker 4: And that really jump-started things.
[2:39] Speaker 5: And then, of course, when I discovered the Templar cave
[2:42] Speaker 5: in Brazil in.
[2:45] Speaker 4: 2015, things really took off.
[2:48] Speaker 5: And, you know, ever since then, I've been backtracking the
[2:51] Speaker 5: Templar's and have discovered what their secret agenda was. I've
[2:56] Speaker 5: also uncovered.
[2:58] Speaker 4: A secret port in Portugal.
[3:01] Speaker 5: That was condoned and actually known about by the kings
[3:06] Speaker 5: of Portugal for several hundred years that the Templars were
[3:10] Speaker 5: traveling in and.
[3:11] Speaker 4: Out of quite frequently.
[3:12] Speaker 5: It's just opened up so much information. The research just
[3:19] Speaker 5: keeps leading me to more and more facts that are
[3:24] Speaker 5: not well-known history. There's very little known actually about the
[3:29] Speaker 5: Templars in Portugal, other than the fact that they founded
[3:34] Speaker 5: the country and that they dominated the country.
[3:38] Speaker 4: It literally was a Templar development.
[3:42] Speaker 5: It really was a template, I believe, that they had
[3:46] Speaker 5: intended to carry out that same ideal that they built
[3:52] Speaker 5: Portugal on, which was a country built on freedom and equality,
[3:57] Speaker 5: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, et cetera, which we
[4:01] Speaker 5: know eventually happened in the United States of America. And
[4:05] Speaker 5: it was definitely related to their inspiration as I've uncovered
[4:12] Speaker 5: their link to the.
[4:15] Speaker 4: Magna Carta, which later, of course.
[4:18] Speaker 5: Became a foundation or a template that was used for
[4:22] Speaker 5: the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. So
[4:26] Speaker 5: this agenda that they had started, I believe, long before
[4:31] Speaker 5: they ever.
[4:31] Speaker 4: Organized in 1118 in the Holy Land.
[4:35] Speaker 5: I believe that this agenda went much further back, hundreds,
[4:41] Speaker 5: possibly thousands of years from a time that the Templars
[4:48] Speaker 5: actually investigated and researched from 1040 to 1090. They were
[4:54] Speaker 5: investigating secret sites and sacred initiation practices by more ancient
[5:02] Speaker 5: civilizations and cultures with the idea of bringing about a
[5:08] Speaker 5: raising of consciousness for mankind at some point. And I
[5:12] Speaker 5: think this was the core of their actual agenda. was
[5:16] Speaker 5: bringing about, you know, peace for humanity, equality for humanity.
[5:23] Speaker 5: And they certainly did that in Portugal. You know, Portugal
[5:27] Speaker 5: was made up of probably one of the diverse, most diverse,
[5:33] Speaker 5: it was the most diverse country in all of Europe,
[5:36] Speaker 5: including the UK, which of course was Scotland and England
[5:39] Speaker 5: at that time. But they had Christians, they had Catholics,
[5:43] Speaker 5: they had Jews, they had Moors, they had Cathars, they
[5:47] Speaker 5: had Celts. They had every nationality, every religious background and
[5:51] Speaker 5: cultural background that existed at that time was all living
[5:56] Speaker 5: in Portugal.
[5:58] Speaker 2: They all got along, didn't they?
[6:01] Speaker 6: Pardon?
[6:02] Speaker 2: Did they all get along?
[6:04] Speaker 5: Well, you know, not everybody always gets along. You know,
[6:07] Speaker 5: I mean, that's just humanity. That's just part of reality.
[6:12] Speaker 5: But they did a pretty good job of being able
[6:16] Speaker 5: to live with each other and being tolerant of each
[6:19] Speaker 5: other's differences and belief systems for, you know, that went
[6:24] Speaker 5: from what, 11, probably the early 12th century all the
[6:29] Speaker 5: way up until, the Inquisition made their way into Portugal
[6:34] Speaker 5: in the 16th century. So that's, you know, we're talking
[6:38] Speaker 5: about 400 or 500 years. So I think they were
[6:41] Speaker 5: doing a pretty good job. And, you know, Portugal is
[6:43] Speaker 5: still made up of all these different nationalities and cultures
[6:47] Speaker 5: and religious belief systems, although it is dominated by the
[6:50] Speaker 5: Catholic Church as far as religious beliefs. It's still very
[6:55] Speaker 5: tolerant of other belief systems.
[6:59] Speaker 3: Kathleen, tell us who the Knights Templars were and what
[7:02] Speaker 3: they were doing.
[7:06] Speaker 5: Well, the Templars, in the beginning, nine Knights organized with
[7:13] Speaker 5: this ideal that I've just spoken about. And when they
[7:17] Speaker 5: went into the Holy Land, and of course, they were
[7:19] Speaker 5: given this stamp of approval by the Catholic Church.
[7:23] Speaker 4: You know, there was actually.
[7:27] Speaker 5: It was the brainchild of Bernard de Claveau, who was
[7:31] Speaker 5: a Cistercian monk and a very powerful man at that time.
[7:34] Speaker 4: He was a mover and a shaker.
[7:36] Speaker 5: And at that point, the Templars just actually expanded exponentially
[7:46] Speaker 5: after that happened. And it drew thousands of members. And
[7:53] Speaker 5: so they had to protect their inner circle. And in
[7:59] Speaker 5: the beginning of the 13th century, in a small town
[8:05] Speaker 5: called Guisels, France, there was actually a schism and a
[8:08] Speaker 5: decision was made at that time amongst the Templars that
[8:12] Speaker 5: they would protect their inner circle. And that inner circle
[8:16] Speaker 5: was to continue with this ideal, with this agenda to
[8:22] Speaker 5: establish a world which was a big deal at that time,
[8:28] Speaker 5: of harmony and equality and religious freedom.
[8:33] Speaker 4: And we know that, of.
[8:35] Speaker 5: Course, that was stopped, that they were, you know, that
[8:40] Speaker 5: was all interrupted in 1307 when everything fell apart in
[8:44] Speaker 5: France and they were rounded up. But even that experience,
[8:49] Speaker 5: even that that was going on in France, Jacques de
[8:52] Speaker 5: Molay had.
[8:54] Speaker 4: Spies everywhere. They knew that was happening. They knew that
[8:56] Speaker 4: was going to happen.
[8:58] Speaker 5: And there were not, there was only a couple hundred
[9:02] Speaker 5: Templars that were rounded up in France.
[9:04] Speaker 4: The rest of them were already in Portugal and already
[9:07] Speaker 4: in Scotland.
[9:07] Speaker 5: And they had a ship that they took all the
[9:10] Speaker 5: treasure out. They were well aware that that was coming,
[9:14] Speaker 5: that that was happening, that that was coming, that King
[9:18] Speaker 5: Philip the Fair was going to attempt to destroy them.
[9:21] Speaker 4: They were well aware of that.
[9:23] Speaker 5: So at that point, I think, you know, that their agenda,
[9:27] Speaker 5: they took their agenda underground. It never ceased. I've discovered
[9:33] Speaker 5: churches dedicated to the Templars, to St. John the Baptist,
[9:37] Speaker 5: to Mary Magdalene.
[9:39] Speaker 4: To St.
[9:40] Speaker 5: Michael, all throughout Europe that were still functioning under the
[9:46] Speaker 5: rug with Templars all throughout that time.
[9:52] Speaker 4: You know, all throughout the 1300s, the 1400s. And I know.
[9:55] Speaker 7: You're going to want some after hearing this. This is
[9:57] Speaker 7: an amazing story.
[9:58] Speaker 6: We've got Stephen and Malachi.
[10:00] Speaker 1: Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.
[10:03] Speaker 7: I understand that Malachi, who's eight, almost nine years old now,
[10:06] Speaker 7: was suffering with not just one or two warts, but
[10:09] Speaker 7: I mean, a significant outbreak of warts all over his body.
[10:12] Speaker 7: So significant, it impacted his ability to to really function.
[10:16] Speaker 8: Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to write.
[10:19] Speaker 8: It was Ty's book actually that got me thinking about it.
[10:22] Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.
[10:23] Speaker 6: It is an amazing immunomodulator. And so I can see
[10:26] Speaker 6: that it would work.
[10:28] Speaker 7: And so at what point did you see that there
[10:31] Speaker 7: was actually improvement is really going to work?
[10:33] Speaker 8: Well, look, we really started to notice it around 12 weeks.
[10:36] Speaker 8: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller
[10:40] Speaker 8: and then going down to the where they're just little
[10:42] Speaker 8: red marks, the whole things are gone. And we're talking
[10:45] Speaker 8: about one the size.
[10:46] Speaker 6: Of a walnut. I thought, no way that's going to.
[10:48] Speaker 5: Wow.
[10:49] Speaker 6: It's just been miraculous to see him get into a
[10:52] Speaker 6: pair of shoes.
[10:52] Speaker 1: Yes.
[10:54] Speaker 7: How wonderful.
[10:55] Speaker 6: It's great to see him so happy and confident.
[10:57] Speaker 7: Absolutely wonderful.
[10:59] Speaker 6: Our friends that have seen it, they're just blown away.
[11:00] Speaker 2: Ty, this is awesome.
[11:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, this is awesome.
[11:03] Speaker 2: Another amazing story.
[11:04] Speaker 4: Why?
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[11:25] Speaker 2: Were they fighters, Kathleen?
[11:27] Speaker 5: Well, there's a small church in France, in Ambroise, France,
[11:31] Speaker 5: which was the first one that gave me, you know,
[11:34] Speaker 5: this idea that made me aware of it. And it
[11:37] Speaker 5: was not very far from where Leonardo da Vinci's chateau
[11:41] Speaker 5: was in Ambroise, France. And this was a church dedicated
[11:45] Speaker 5: to St. John the Baptist, which was open and functioning
[11:49] Speaker 5: during the time that Leonardo lived there. Of course, we
[11:52] Speaker 5: know he was born in the middle of the 15th
[11:54] Speaker 5: century all the way up until the 16th century. It
[11:57] Speaker 5: was when he was, you know, when he was alive
[12:00] Speaker 5: and he was in Ambroise for about the last 20
[12:03] Speaker 5: years of his life. And this chapel dedicated to St.
[12:08] Speaker 5: John was within walking.
[12:10] Speaker 4: Distance, a very short walking distance from of his chateau.
[12:15] Speaker 5: There was also another one that I discovered in Sainte-Messe, France,
[12:19] Speaker 5: that was functioning, and the Templars were still there. So
[12:23] Speaker 5: even in France, this order was still continuing on, and
[12:29] Speaker 5: I believe that they were still attempting to further their
[12:32] Speaker 5: agenda and put the pieces in place to further that agenda.
[12:37] Speaker 4: How many of them were there? How many of them survived?
[12:44] Speaker 2: How many members were they?
[12:48] Speaker 5: Oh, God, that's really hard to pinpoint because there were
[12:54] Speaker 5: members in every single country. They were embedded in every
[12:57] Speaker 5: country in Europe. I would venture to guess there were
[13:03] Speaker 5: somewhere in the hundreds of thousands of members.
[13:06] Speaker 4: Before the fall.
[13:09] Speaker 2: Who financed them?
[13:11] Speaker 5: They financed themselves through donations from churches, from monarchs, from
[13:19] Speaker 5: nobles in every single country.
[13:23] Speaker 4: Again, the way that they were set up, the way.
[13:26] Speaker 5: That Bernard de Clavel was brilliant in setting up the
[13:31] Speaker 5: Templars and presenting it to the Catholic Church, this was
[13:34] Speaker 5: the first time in history that a monk was also
[13:39] Speaker 5: considered a crusader.
[13:41] Speaker 4: A soldier.
[13:43] Speaker 5: And they were also given absolution by the church. So
[13:47] Speaker 5: if you became a Templar during that time in history,
[13:51] Speaker 5: you had an automatic ticket to heaven.
[13:54] Speaker 4: And this is the way they presented it.
[13:56] Speaker 5: So it drew, it just drew overnight, it drew hundreds
[14:01] Speaker 5: and hundreds and thousands of members. So before the demise
[14:06] Speaker 5: of the Templars in 1314, when they were, you know,
[14:09] Speaker 5: legally disbanded, There were probably several hundred thousand Templars.
[14:16] Speaker 2: Were they fighters?
[14:19] Speaker 4: Yes. Well, most of them were.
[14:21] Speaker 5: But then you had your inner circle of members that
[14:25] Speaker 5: I'm sure were capable soldiers, but they were more involved
[14:30] Speaker 5: in the initiation processes and the administration of the order.
[14:35] Speaker 5: And in France was, of course, their stronghold for a
[14:39] Speaker 5: long time. But I think that transferred to Portugal and
[14:44] Speaker 5: Scotland after 1307.
[14:46] Speaker 3: Now, was this individual that you mentioned the leader of
[14:54] Speaker 3: the Templars?
[14:57] Speaker 5: Well, yeah, Jacques de Molay, of course, at the end,
[15:01] Speaker 5: you know, was their leader. But I believe that at
[15:06] Speaker 5: that time when he was arrested with several hundred Templars,
[15:12] Speaker 5: the Templars that were arrested with him, I do not
[15:16] Speaker 5: believe were of the inner order because of the fact
[15:20] Speaker 5: that they did not know the reason that they didn't
[15:23] Speaker 5: divulge anything under extreme torture and pressure because they didn't
[15:28] Speaker 5: know anything.
[15:29] Speaker 4: I think that they.
[15:30] Speaker 5: You know, the initial, the inner order, the inner circle
[15:35] Speaker 5: was made up of members that were in Portugal and
[15:38] Speaker 5: and that were in Scotland. And we don't even see
[15:41] Speaker 5: any initiation relics or anything discovered in Scotland, but we have,
[15:46] Speaker 5: you know, of course.
[15:47] Speaker 4: Hamilton White's amazing cache of relics.
[15:53] Speaker 5: And most of them are indicative of initiatory practice. And
[15:58] Speaker 5: those were all discovered, and they were dug up in Tomar, Portugal,
[16:02] Speaker 5: which was, of course, the stronghold of the Templar.
[16:06] Speaker 4: Order in Portugal. And, I mean, I've seen these relics myself.
[16:11] Speaker 4: I've handled them. I've held them.
[16:14] Speaker 5: They're just, they're absolutely amazing. And they are proof, they're
[16:18] Speaker 5: absolute proof, without a doubt, that the Templars were not
[16:23] Speaker 5: a Christian sect. They were not necessarily strictly Christian. They
[16:27] Speaker 5: accepted all religions, but they were more towards a Gnostic order.
[16:34] Speaker 4: They were not... You know, they were not Catholics, practicing Catholics.
[16:41] Speaker 5: They practiced initiatory, actually several initiations to get to what
[16:50] Speaker 5: we now see as like sort of a 33rd degree,
[16:54] Speaker 5: we could compare it to a 33rd degree Mason. The
[16:56] Speaker 5: Mason's initiatory steps in becoming a 33rd degree Mason were
[17:02] Speaker 5: based on the Templar initiatory steps. Same thing with the Rosicrucians.
[17:08] Speaker 5: They were based on the Templars' initiatory steps. And the
[17:14] Speaker 5: symbols that I discovered in my cave, which I also
[17:18] Speaker 5: found in San Leonardo Church in Portugal, and I found
[17:22] Speaker 5: them in Royston, and I found them in Dome, France,
[17:26] Speaker 5: in the dungeon in Chinon, and several other places, Istanbul, Now,
[17:32] Speaker 5: these were all initiatory symbols of different levels of initiation. So,
[17:40] Speaker 5: you know, these and some of them match perfectly with
[17:44] Speaker 5: the relics that Hamilton White has, which I found very interesting.
[17:49] Speaker 5: So we know that the inner order was practicing initiatory initiations.
[17:58] Speaker 2: When you talk about they were arrested, what were they
[18:00] Speaker 2: arrested for?
[18:03] Speaker 5: Well, they were arrested for Gnostic beliefs, basically.
[18:10] Speaker 4: They were arrested for several things.
[18:12] Speaker 5: They were accused of spitting on Christ. They were accused
[18:19] Speaker 5: of worshipping a head. They were accused of sexual deviation.
[18:29] Speaker 5: They were accused of homosexuality. They were accused of worshipping
[18:34] Speaker 5: the devil.
[18:35] Speaker 4: It went on and on. There was a list, a
[18:39] Speaker 4: very long.
[18:40] Speaker 5: List of things that they were accused of. And interesting enough,
[18:44] Speaker 5: some of these things that they were accused of were
[18:48] Speaker 5: based in Gnostic principles. So, you know, some of the
[18:53] Speaker 5: things were not off the mark.
[18:56] Speaker 4: Well, of course, some of the more.
[19:02] Speaker 5: Dastardly deeds, I guess you could call them, they were
[19:06] Speaker 5: not guilty of. But, you know, they were just included
[19:10] Speaker 5: for good measure because you have to remember the King
[19:14] Speaker 5: Philip the Fair at that time, his intention and what
[19:19] Speaker 5: he originally approached Jacques Dumoulin with was the idea that
[19:24] Speaker 5: he become the Grand Master of the Order, but he
[19:29] Speaker 5: also wanted them to combine the Knights Templar with the Hospitallers.
[19:37] Speaker 4: And they did not get along. In fact, they actually
[19:41] Speaker 4: had a battle.
[19:42] Speaker 5: In the Holy Land between the Knights Templar and the Hospitallers.
[19:46] Speaker 4: They were not by any means friends. with each other.
[19:51] Speaker 5: So Jacques de Molay turned him down. He said, absolutely not.
[19:56] Speaker 5: You know, I'm not going to join my order with
[19:59] Speaker 5: the Hospitallers and turn everything over to you.
[20:02] Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
[20:05] Speaker 1: 1 a.m. Eastern and go to coasttocoastam.com for more.

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