# #702Openline– Politicians using church to campaign for elections.

An episode of [The Clement Manyathela Show](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1201147442), 19 Oct 2026, 48 min.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/5dcefa8e-00a9-4595-8ce1-a4ab0080f142/366c625b-e6db-4376-8e27-a6f300c8de6f/9aaa8391-f3e2-43c8-9f51-b4e80078ff3b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=4b2990fe-a25d-4dca-afbf-a6f300cfc2ae

On today's open line, Clement Manyathela and listeners discuss updates on various on developing stories, including reactions to Helen Zille's elections campaign gimmicks that include her appearing at her last rally in a Gusheshe this past weekend; and whether religious leaders are allowing political leaders to use their sacred spaces as a campaigning tool for elections when those politicians make grand appearances at churches. The Clement Manyathela Show is broadcast on 702, a Johannesburg based talk radio station, weekdays from 09:00 to 12:00 (SA Time). Clement Manyathela starts his show each weekday on 702 at 9 am taking your calls and voice notes on his Open Line. In the second hour of his show, he unpacks, explains, and makes sense of the news of the day. Clement has several features in his third hour from 11 am that provide you with information to help and guide you through your daily life. As your morning friend, he tackles the serious as well as the light-hearted, on your behalf. Thank you for listening to a podcast from The Clement Manyathela Show. Listen live on Primedia+ weekdays from 09:00 and 12:00 (SA Time) to The Clement Manyathela Show broadcast on 702 https://buff.ly/gk3y0Kj For more from the show go to https://buff.ly/XijPLtJ or find all the catch-up podcasts here https://buff.ly/p0gWuPE Subscribe to the 702 Daily and Weekly Newsletters https://buff.ly/v5mfetc Follow us on social media: 702 on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TalkRadio702 702 on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@talkradio702 702 on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkradio702/ 702 on X: https://x.com/Radio702 702 on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@radio702 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manatella on 702.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Let's walk the talk. Streaming on the Prime Media Plus app.
[0:10] Speaker 2: DSTV Channel 856. 92.7 and 106 FM. It's eight minutes
[1:08] Speaker 2: after nine o'clock. Happy, happy Monday. Welcome to the Clement
[1:13] Speaker 2: Manyatella show on this 19th day of October. I hope
[1:17] Speaker 2: you had a wonderful, wonderful weekend and that you're ready
[1:21] Speaker 2: for the week ahead. What did you get up to
[1:23] Speaker 2: this weekend? So I managed to go and watch the
[1:26] Speaker 2: play Ladies of Lavare on Friday. I actually found out
[1:32] Speaker 2: about it when Bongani was interviewing one of the cast
[1:36] Speaker 2: members and on Friday and I thought, oh my goodness,
[1:40] Speaker 2: I've always, always, always appreciated the artistry of Camilla Wildman.
[1:50] Speaker 2: And when I heard her say she's part of the play,
[1:53] Speaker 2: I thought, I mean, why not? So I watched Ladies
[1:56] Speaker 2: of Lavarra on Friday. If you watched it, please let
[1:58] Speaker 2: me know what you thought. It was at the theater
[2:02] Speaker 2: on the square and oh my goodness, What an incredible play.
[2:06] Speaker 2: It's a coming of old age comedy drama play starring
[2:10] Speaker 2: Camilla Wildman, whom we have had on the show before.
[2:14] Speaker 2: What a talent. And Shaleen Tobin. My goodness. I honestly
[2:19] Speaker 2: have not seen that level of talent, of artistic expression
[2:25] Speaker 2: and even consistency on the stage in a very long time.
[2:29] Speaker 2: So congratulations to them. Congratulations to Juliet Jenna as well,
[2:32] Speaker 2: whom I think directed the play. it is so funny. Um,
[2:37] Speaker 2: it touches on so many themes. The acting is just
[2:39] Speaker 2: on another, on another world. The last time, in fact,
[2:43] Speaker 2: that I was blown away by a play when I
[2:47] Speaker 2: was in theater was when I watched the book of Mormon. Um,
[2:51] Speaker 2: and I don't know if we've ever, if we ever
[2:53] Speaker 2: had a book of Mormon here, cause I had watched
[2:55] Speaker 2: it in London, I think about two or two years
[2:57] Speaker 2: or so ago, it was the best play I've ever
[2:59] Speaker 2: watched in my entire life. And now, On Friday, I
[3:03] Speaker 2: watched The Ladies of Lavarra and I can tell you
[3:05] Speaker 2: it's up there. Definitely top three of the best plays
[3:09] Speaker 2: I've ever watched. So that honestly made my weekend whole.
[3:13] Speaker 2: What made yours? What did you get up to on 011-883-0702?
[3:18] Speaker 2: And if you have watched this play, The Ladies of
[3:21] Speaker 2: Lavarra at the Theatre on the Square, let me know
[3:23] Speaker 2: how you found it. The WhatsApp line is 072-702-1702. I
[3:26] Speaker 2: also went to church yesterday. I went to the St.
[3:33] Speaker 2: Martin's Anglican Church in Rosebank because a good friend of
[3:37] Speaker 2: mine is now the rector there at the church, Reverend Motlakani,
[3:41] Speaker 2: and yesterday was his official first sermon since he was installed,
[3:45] Speaker 2: so that was quite special to me. I'm mentioning this
[3:50] Speaker 2: church thing because I kept thinking about something on my
[3:53] Speaker 2: way from church, something that honestly I have found to
[3:57] Speaker 2: be disturbing, slightly disturbing. And I want to know how
[4:03] Speaker 2: you feel about it. And this is just something that's
[4:05] Speaker 2: happening broadly now as we head over to the elections
[4:08] Speaker 2: in other churches that I've seen. Not particularly where I
[4:11] Speaker 2: went yesterday because it wasn't the case. As we get
[4:15] Speaker 2: closer and closer to elections, there are politicians who are,
[4:21] Speaker 2: of course, using every opportunity they can to get your vote.
[4:26] Speaker 2: And that includes going to churches. And I wonder if
[4:31] Speaker 2: you have had politicians come to your own church to campaign.
[4:36] Speaker 2: Because they're doing that a lot now. And if you
[4:39] Speaker 2: have not seen them in your church, you're likely to
[4:41] Speaker 2: see them in the coming two Sundays before the 4th
[4:43] Speaker 2: of November. So this past weekend, the ANC chairperson, Gwede Mantasha,
[4:50] Speaker 2: attended a service at, I think it's Life Changes International
[4:53] Speaker 2: Church in Bojanala, asking for prayers ahead of elections. The President,
[5:00] Speaker 2: Cyril Ramaphosa, addressed a packed gathering of congregants from the
[5:05] Speaker 2: Salvation Church of the Revival of Faith in Kailicha. And
[5:10] Speaker 2: I want to know how you feel about political parties
[5:13] Speaker 2: coming to your places of worship and being given an
[5:18] Speaker 2: opportunity to speak ahead of elections. What do you think
[5:22] Speaker 2: about the VIP treatment that they seem to get at
[5:27] Speaker 2: the church's ahead of elections when they're campaigning? And as
[5:30] Speaker 2: pastors or elders of the church, how do you balance that?
[5:35] Speaker 2: I think, well, this is my view, and I'm happy
[5:40] Speaker 2: to hear yours. I think churches are quite sacred. In fact,
[5:44] Speaker 2: any place of worship for that matter, any synagogue, I
[5:48] Speaker 2: think those are very sacred spaces for worship. And I
[5:52] Speaker 2: think it's okay for, of course, the president or the
[5:55] Speaker 2: leader of Action SA or EFF or DEA or whoever
[5:58] Speaker 2: to go and visit a church or to go be
[6:01] Speaker 2: part of the congregation and be prayed on, whatever, if
[6:05] Speaker 2: that's what they want. I think what I am a
[6:09] Speaker 2: little uncomfortable about sometimes is when there are churches that
[6:12] Speaker 2: even give the political leaders a platform to speak on stage.
[6:20] Speaker 2: I'm not sure how I feel about that because There's
[6:22] Speaker 2: no way that as a pastor you're going to tell me, oh,
[6:24] Speaker 2: I didn't know that Julius Malema was going to use
[6:27] Speaker 2: that opportunity to campaign, whether overtly or just indirectly. You
[6:33] Speaker 2: can't tell me as a pastor of the church when
[6:35] Speaker 2: the president says I'm coming or the leader of that
[6:38] Speaker 2: party says we're coming to visit that church and that, oh,
[6:40] Speaker 2: but I don't think they're campaigning. They're just here to
[6:44] Speaker 2: ask for prayers. And I worry what precedent that even sets.
[6:49] Speaker 2: What are we normalizing? about these sacred spaces. So are
[6:52] Speaker 2: we saying it's okay for, oh, just come to church
[6:55] Speaker 2: when you need us. When you just, because you've got
[6:58] Speaker 2: elections coming up, so you want the church people to
[7:00] Speaker 2: vote for you and you want suddenly this divine protection.
[7:05] Speaker 2: Is that what we're teaching congregants? Just go, be at home,
[7:10] Speaker 2: do your thing the whole year. But when you are
[7:12] Speaker 2: two weeks from the exam, come here. We'll give you
[7:15] Speaker 2: a platform and we'll pray for you and you'll get
[7:19] Speaker 2: divine knowledge and wisdom from God. So I just wonder
[7:26] Speaker 2: how we rationalize that. And yes, of course, there are
[7:29] Speaker 2: other pastors, I mean, political leaders who go to church
[7:31] Speaker 2: on Easter. In fact, I would argue that you'll see
[7:35] Speaker 2: them more at the church on the Easter of the
[7:38] Speaker 2: year where elections are taking place than any other Easter.
[7:43] Speaker 2: But some pastors are very, very, like some churches are
[7:46] Speaker 2: very cautious. So you can come, They will pray for
[7:49] Speaker 2: you or you'll be part of the congregation, but you're
[7:52] Speaker 2: not getting on the platform. For instance, ZCC. ZCC, they
[7:55] Speaker 2: don't speak there. I've never seen a leader of a
[7:57] Speaker 2: political party at a ZCC chat speaking because that's how
[8:00] Speaker 2: sacred they take that. Only the pastors at ZCC will speak.
[8:06] Speaker 2: If you're President Sol Ramaphosa, I know has been there.
[8:08] Speaker 2: I think Julius Malema has been there. Many other party
[8:11] Speaker 2: leaders have been there. But you can be there with
[8:15] Speaker 2: the pastor of the church, but you don't get to
[8:18] Speaker 2: take the mic and address the congregation. But that has
[8:22] Speaker 2: since changed. And I want to know how you feel
[8:24] Speaker 2: about that. I think sometimes we blur the lines. I
[8:29] Speaker 2: think we do. And I'm a little uncomfortable about being
[8:32] Speaker 2: in a church and a platform has been given to
[8:35] Speaker 2: a politician to campaign and ask for votes. I would
[8:38] Speaker 2: rather a pastor says, oh, we've got.
[8:43] Speaker 2: Our Gauteng Premier here with us. Or we've got the
[8:46] Speaker 2: leader of whoever visiting us. Let's clap for them. Thank
[8:49] Speaker 2: you for joining us. And then the church continues because
[8:51] Speaker 2: that's a place of worship. We're there to worship. We're
[8:55] Speaker 2: not here to hear a political party try and sell
[8:58] Speaker 2: us dreams or try to tell us what they're going
[9:01] Speaker 2: to do if we vote for them. I could be wrong,
[9:06] Speaker 2: but this is my view. I'm interested to hear what
[9:08] Speaker 2: yours is. And I want to hear from the pastors
[9:10] Speaker 2: as well because I know we've got pastors who listen
[9:12] Speaker 2: to the show. I'm not accusing you of anything. I
[9:14] Speaker 2: just want to know, as a pastor yourself, how do
[9:17] Speaker 2: you balance it? Because I do think that some pastors
[9:19] Speaker 2: are more strategic about it. So they're thinking, hey, next
[9:23] Speaker 2: time we're going to be wanting to expand our building,
[9:25] Speaker 2: we're going to need the mayor of Joburg, or we're
[9:26] Speaker 2: going to need, maybe let's have them come because then
[9:29] Speaker 2: next time they'll do us a favor. Is that it?
[9:33] Speaker 2: Is that a strategic decision? And if it's not a
[9:36] Speaker 2: strategic decision, then how do you rationalize it? Is it okay?
[9:40] Speaker 2: Because pastors are very, very, very protective over the podium.
[9:43] Speaker 2: And rightly so. Again, that's a sacred space. It's a
[9:47] Speaker 2: place of worship. The person who gets on that podium
[9:49] Speaker 2: is a person who must be called, who must be anointed, who,
[9:53] Speaker 2: you know, that must be their purpose and mission. They've
[9:55] Speaker 2: been chosen, quote unquote, by God. Isn't that what churches believe?
[9:59] Speaker 2: So if you're just going to bring in people on
[10:03] Speaker 2: the podium because you've got elections coming up, let me
[10:07] Speaker 2: know what you think. 011-883-0702. Speaking of elections and campaigns,
[10:14] Speaker 2: I see a lot of people have been debating Helen
[10:17] Speaker 2: Ziller's campaign strategy. I think she held her final rally
[10:22] Speaker 2: this weekend, if I'm not mistaken. And some people have
[10:24] Speaker 2: been talking about how, you know, she has been snorkeling
[10:28] Speaker 2: in water-filled potholes. Remember what happened in Douglasdale? Rowing a
[10:35] Speaker 2: boat down a flooded street in Soweto. She went ziplining
[10:40] Speaker 2: over a sinkhole and taking over a nightclub DJ booth, right?
[10:46] Speaker 2: And then, just this weekend, she arrived at the DA
[10:49] Speaker 2: rally in a spinning kusheshe. So Helen Ziller has clearly
[10:55] Speaker 2: found ways to keep a Johannesburg mayoral campaign in the headlines.
[11:00] Speaker 2: And I'm asking about her specifically because it seems she's
[11:02] Speaker 2: one person who has found a new way to campaign
[11:04] Speaker 2: and maybe it's because she's trying to reach young people.
[11:07] Speaker 2: And I can tell you she is getting popular among
[11:10] Speaker 2: young people. I often hear even when I'm talking to
[11:13] Speaker 2: my cousins or I see what the young people are
[11:15] Speaker 2: talking about, they like the gimmicks. They may not know
[11:18] Speaker 2: her as like, you know, the first female leader of
[11:21] Speaker 2: the DA. She was mayor of Cape Town. They probably
[11:24] Speaker 2: are being introduced to her now, but they're like, oh,
[11:26] Speaker 2: this Gogo is interesting. And when you look at the polls,
[11:32] Speaker 2: she seems to be leading in all the polls. Well,
[11:33] Speaker 2: at least from what I've seen. But what I'm asking is,
[11:37] Speaker 2: do you think those quote unquote gimmicks have worked for you?
[11:43] Speaker 2: What about your children or the young people in your family?
[11:47] Speaker 2: Because their campaign has been highly visible, whether you like
[11:50] Speaker 2: it or not. It has been humorous, whether you like
[11:53] Speaker 2: it or not. But it's also been sometimes controversial. So
[11:57] Speaker 2: there are supporters who argue that these stands, you know,
[12:00] Speaker 2: they shine a spotlight on the city's crumbling infrastructure in
[12:03] Speaker 2: a different way. They shine a spotlight on service delivery
[12:07] Speaker 2: in a different way. But critics disagree. On the other side,
[12:11] Speaker 2: they're questioning whether these gimmicks are offering real solutions or
[12:15] Speaker 2: they reduce serious problems that are affecting residents through social
[12:20] Speaker 2: media spectacle. And some even feel like they're a bit condescending,
[12:24] Speaker 2: some of the things that Helen Siller does. So does
[12:27] Speaker 2: visibility translate into votes? Because she's faring favorably in the polls,
[12:32] Speaker 2: but does that make her campaign, does that mean that
[12:36] Speaker 2: her campaign is connecting with the people whose votes she
[12:38] Speaker 2: needs to win? Jobeck, you tell me how you have
[12:42] Speaker 2: found Helen Ziller's campaign. Are the stunts clever ways of
[12:47] Speaker 2: holding the city accountable or are they more about grabbing attention?
[12:52] Speaker 2: Has she convinced you that she can run Johannesburg or
[12:55] Speaker 2: have the spectacles overshadowed the substance? Let's talk on 011-883-0702,
[13:01] Speaker 2: WhatsApp 072-702-1702. Clement Manatella, streaming on the Prime Media Plus app.
[13:10] Speaker 2: dearest tv channel 856.
[13:14] Speaker 4: 92.7 and 106 fm hey clement um my weekend was
[13:17] Speaker 4: good thank you so much i was in hazy view
[13:19] Speaker 4: a beautiful place but too hot what the politicians uh
[13:23] Speaker 4: come into churches they do come to our churches particularly
[13:26] Speaker 4: during our easter or september pilgrimage um but they don't
[13:32] Speaker 4: campaign right they just attend the sermon if anything if
[13:36] Speaker 4: there were to be given a speaker it would be
[13:38] Speaker 4: just to greet us baruch hodom And that's about it.
[13:42] Speaker 4: The church doesn't give them the platform to campaign.
[13:45] Speaker 5: Morning Clement, Evan from Benoni here. On the question of
[13:48] Speaker 5: politicians attending church services so close to elections, it becomes
[13:54] Speaker 5: very confusing when people like Carl Niehaus attend church services
[14:00] Speaker 5: but speak so vehemently and quite frankly aggressively against Israel
[14:08] Speaker 5: and Jewish people in general. when it is quite obvious
[14:13] Speaker 5: from a religious perspective that the Christian churches stand, in essence,
[14:20] Speaker 5: from a theological perspective, on the side of the Jewish people.
[14:24] Speaker 5: But then on a Sunday, Colony asks, is there shaking
[14:27] Speaker 5: hands and breaking bread with effectively people who would stand
[14:33] Speaker 5: against or on the side of the Jews?
[14:36] Speaker 6: Very interesting.
[14:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think the distinction is important there, right?
[14:41] Speaker 2: There are pastors I know, there are churches I know
[14:44] Speaker 2: who don't necessarily support what Israel is doing. And that
[14:47] Speaker 2: doesn't mean that those churches are against Israel or against
[14:50] Speaker 2: the Jewish people. And I think that distinction is important
[14:54] Speaker 2: because now we seem to have entered an era where
[14:58] Speaker 2: when you criticize Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime media... the prime
[15:07] Speaker 2: minister of israel and then you are seen as oh
[15:11] Speaker 2: you must be hating israel no so also this idea
[15:15] Speaker 2: that oh because there are some people who go blindly
[15:19] Speaker 2: i've played you clips before of um pastor chris was
[15:24] Speaker 2: it yeah pastor chris where he was telling his congregants
[15:28] Speaker 2: like basically he was saying and i'm paraphrasing whatever you
[15:30] Speaker 2: do we are with israel Like blindly. We don't care
[15:34] Speaker 2: anything else. We are with Israel. I think that's weird.
[15:38] Speaker 2: I think that's a fundamental weird principle to stand by.
[15:43] Speaker 2: Because you can't be with an institution or a country
[15:46] Speaker 2: or a person regardless of. Because, oh, Holy Scripture says.
[15:51] Speaker 2: So tomorrow if Israel says, okay, kill all the women. What,
[15:55] Speaker 2: you are with Israel? Even when they issue an instruction
[15:58] Speaker 2: like that, that fundamentally goes against people's human rights, people's
[16:04] Speaker 2: rights to live. It goes against the very principles of
[16:08] Speaker 2: your own Holy Scripture. So I find that a little
[16:11] Speaker 2: problematic and I think we're busy grouping churches together as
[16:14] Speaker 2: if churches can't sit and think rationally and separate between
[16:20] Speaker 2: politicians who are using their political power to hang on
[16:25] Speaker 2: to politics, including in the process violating human rights. We
[16:30] Speaker 2: can't distinguish between that and just Israel as a state
[16:37] Speaker 2: that has a right to exist like any other state
[16:42] Speaker 2: but that's a conversation for another day so I thought
[16:44] Speaker 2: that distinction must still be important so don't criticize Carl
[16:48] Speaker 2: Niehaus who goes to a church because Carl Niehaus outside
[16:52] Speaker 2: of a church he speaks against the actions of the
[16:54] Speaker 2: Israeli government I think the two can exist at the
[16:57] Speaker 2: same time Shadrach you are calling us from Soweto good morning.
[17:02] Speaker 7: Good morning, Clement, and thank you for taking my call.
[17:05] Speaker 6: Sure.
[17:06] Speaker 7: And I just want to congratulate you guys. You know
[17:08] Speaker 7: your topics are very interesting, very thought-provoking. Your topic this
[17:13] Speaker 7: morning is very interesting. The politicians will stop at nothing
[17:18] Speaker 7: in trying to get votes, particularly towards elections. They will
[17:22] Speaker 7: walk into the church, even if they might not verbally
[17:26] Speaker 7: ask to be given a platform, but the intentions, it's
[17:29] Speaker 7: that of trying to avail themselves and to display themselves
[17:33] Speaker 7: because they are garnering vote one way or the other,
[17:35] Speaker 7: directly or indirectly. So the church shouldn't be allowing that
[17:41] Speaker 7: to happen. Because really, look, as you mentioned, the podium
[17:46] Speaker 7: is sacrosanct. It's for anointed people, not for the politicians.
[17:50] Speaker 7: Why politicians will make themselves visible in the churches towards elections?
[17:55] Speaker 2: Because other than that, we'll never see that. Yes.
[18:00] Speaker 8: Yes.
[18:00] Speaker 2: No, I agree. So I was just saying, I agree
[18:02] Speaker 2: with you. Like I never see them. So it's always
[18:04] Speaker 2: like the year of the elections, that's when they start coming.
[18:08] Speaker 2: And I think that sends a wrong message, especially if
[18:11] Speaker 2: we give them the platform. But if, if there's a
[18:13] Speaker 2: pastor who's been like, if there's a political leader who's
[18:15] Speaker 2: been coming to church, you know, has been visiting the church,
[18:18] Speaker 2: then I get it that during, before elections, then we say, Oh,
[18:21] Speaker 2: let's pray for him. This is a fair. I'm just
[18:24] Speaker 2: worried about the message we send out when we, The
[18:28] Speaker 2: political leader has not even touched your ground ever since
[18:32] Speaker 2: your church existed, but they come two weeks before. I
[18:35] Speaker 2: think that's a bit weird. Definitely.
[18:38] Speaker 7: It's something to think of.
[18:39] Speaker 2: It's something to worry about.
[18:42] Speaker 7: Even if they don't, like we said, so let them
[18:45] Speaker 7: be visible at all times, not to us, because we
[18:47] Speaker 7: will assume, because we always assume things like, okay, now
[18:51] Speaker 7: it's about election time. If I see the politician walk
[18:53] Speaker 7: into my house now, Definitely, I will ask him what
[18:56] Speaker 7: it is that he's looking for. Yeah, Bogu, where have
[18:58] Speaker 7: you been?
[18:59] Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly.
[19:02] Speaker 7: Very interesting topic, Clement.
[19:04] Speaker 2: Thank you, Shadrach. Thank you for your thoughts. Let's hear
[19:06] Speaker 2: what other people think. And I do want to, especially
[19:08] Speaker 2: the people who come from churches where this exists and happens,
[19:12] Speaker 2: I want to know how you feel about that. And
[19:15] Speaker 2: I want to hear from the pastors as well. Please
[19:16] Speaker 2: let me know. Pastors, don't be shy. I'm not judging.
[19:20] Speaker 2: We're not judging. We just want to hear from your side.
[19:23] Speaker 2: Is it a more strategic decision you're taking? What is it?
[19:27] Speaker 2: Because I'm a little lost. More of your calls and
[19:31] Speaker 2: WhatsApps after the break. It's 27 after 9.
[19:33] Speaker 9: 9.33.
[19:33] Speaker 2: We continue with the calls on 011-883-0702 on the 702
[19:40] Speaker 2: open line. WhatsApps on 0. on 072-702-1702 Kustas you're calling
[19:53] Speaker 2: from Midland what do you want to say about Helen
[19:54] Speaker 2: good morning.
[19:55] Speaker 10: Ah morning morning morning Clement yeah Clement can we give
[19:58] Speaker 10: a credit where it is due Helenville ran a polished
[20:03] Speaker 10: campaign and remember she started a long time ago way.
[20:06] Speaker 2: Before everybody before anyone else yes And also, let.
[20:10] Speaker 10: Us forget, DA is a forever on a campaign mode machinery.
[20:15] Speaker 10: So everything was already prepared for her. And she has
[20:18] Speaker 10: done extremely well in the campaigning. However, Clement, it doesn't
[20:21] Speaker 10: change us that we want him in Mashaba Day. We
[20:23] Speaker 10: want him actually in SA Day. Simply because, not because
[20:27] Speaker 10: DA is a bad party, but by all means, no.
[20:30] Speaker 10: But is Helen Zille going to remain if she doesn't
[20:32] Speaker 10: get an heirship? Is she going to remain in Joburg?
[20:35] Speaker 10: Or is she going to go back? Does she really
[20:37] Speaker 10: have a house here? Or maybe she's staying with the sister.
[20:41] Speaker 10: Because between Konongubi and Nyati, they were arguing. The other
[20:46] Speaker 10: one says, no, this one is not going to remain
[20:47] Speaker 10: here if he doesn't get the seat.
[20:49] Speaker 2: Okay, but why does that matter, Kustas?
[20:51] Speaker 11: Why?
[20:52] Speaker 2: Do you want a commitment that, oh, if I fail,
[20:55] Speaker 2: then I'll stay in Joburg?
[20:57] Speaker 10: Here's the thing, Clement. We want someone who understands this city,
[21:01] Speaker 10: who lives here. When I say live here, not because
[21:05] Speaker 10: you are coming here to tell us that you live
[21:07] Speaker 10: here temporarily. If you don't get the job, you then
[21:09] Speaker 10: go back to where you belong. City of Johannesburg belongs
[21:12] Speaker 10: to the locals of Johannesburg. Therefore, I'm suggesting to you
[21:14] Speaker 10: to say that we want someone who's a local, who's
[21:17] Speaker 10: one of us, part of us, who wants to live
[21:19] Speaker 10: with us, who knows the.
[21:20] Speaker 2: Way that we live. Okay, then the issue then is
[21:22] Speaker 2: not so much what happens when she loses. The issue is,
[21:25] Speaker 2: has she actually been a resident of Johannesburg even before
[21:28] Speaker 2: she decided to campaign to be a mayor?
[21:31] Speaker 10: There you go. At the same time, what I comment
[21:33] Speaker 10: is that on the issue that affects the city of Tunisburg,
[21:35] Speaker 10: are they going to really take.
[21:39] Speaker 2: Say that again, Kustas?
[21:40] Speaker 12: This is the bylaws.
[21:42] Speaker 2: Sorry, we lost you there for a bit. So you
[21:44] Speaker 2: said on the issue, is that what?
[21:46] Speaker 13: Yes.
[21:46] Speaker 10: Whether they're going to tackle illegal buildings, those hijacked buildings
[21:49] Speaker 10: in the city of Tunisburg. Are they going to... Because
[21:52] Speaker 10: they're not talking about that. They're not talking about bylaws
[21:55] Speaker 10: that goes to, like Pretoria does.
[21:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, to be fair, they have, Kustas. I think maybe
[21:59] Speaker 2: you haven't heard that. In fact, even when we did
[22:01] Speaker 2: the debate, she did touch on those issues. But I
[22:05] Speaker 2: think I do get your point about, but you have
[22:08] Speaker 2: not been living here. So, and as a, if we
[22:11] Speaker 2: are going to vote for a mayor, you want someone
[22:13] Speaker 2: who's lived here. My question to you, though, Kustas, is, Kabelo,
[22:17] Speaker 2: how are you? How are you? Kabelo, how are you?
[22:23] Speaker 7: Yeah.
[22:25] Speaker 2: They lived in Johannesburg. What have they given you?
[22:28] Speaker 10: Now, it's important that we understand how this guy got there.
[22:33] Speaker 10: It was a very disappointment that a guy who could
[22:36] Speaker 10: not even make the top 100, whether in the ANC
[22:40] Speaker 10: or whether in the EFF, ends up becoming a mayor.
[22:43] Speaker 10: So they really betrayed us.
[22:44] Speaker 2: Well, this is coalition politics, Kustas. So that's probably going
[22:48] Speaker 2: to be the same dynamics that are going to be
[22:50] Speaker 2: at play after the 4th of November. I guess what I'm.
[22:54] Speaker 10: I like you raised that point, and let's not forget,
[22:56] Speaker 10: in order for Kwamanda to get in, it's because Democratic
[22:59] Speaker 10: Alliance was in a coalition.
[23:01] Speaker 2: And they left.
[23:02] Speaker 10: We gave them a chance to, they were a majority,
[23:05] Speaker 10: and they left. So what are the guarantees that they're
[23:07] Speaker 10: not going to leave another coalition this time around?
[23:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess what I was trying to demonstrate is
[23:12] Speaker 2: because of coalition politics, anybody from any party could be
[23:15] Speaker 2: a mayor. You just don't know. Even if you're the
[23:17] Speaker 2: largest party like the MK party in KZN, they're not
[23:20] Speaker 2: even in charge. There are other parties that are in charge.
[23:23] Speaker 2: So Anything is possible. And I'm asking, I mean, really,
[23:27] Speaker 2: you want someone who has lived in Johannesburg all their life?
[23:30] Speaker 2: And I'm saying there are many mayors who have lived here.
[23:32] Speaker 2: And how have they served Johannesburg? So I wonder if
[23:38] Speaker 2: that is actually quite a crucial thing to look at
[23:41] Speaker 2: as something that actually influences how you even vote. And
[23:43] Speaker 2: of course, you, Christos, you must decide how you decide. Myself,
[23:48] Speaker 2: I don't think someone not living in Joburg of course,
[23:53] Speaker 2: when someone does the job, I want them to be here.
[23:55] Speaker 2: But if they were going to bring me like, let's
[23:57] Speaker 2: say Simcha Balala had moved to, I just can't think
[24:02] Speaker 2: of anybody else. Let's say Simcha Balala or Nolita Fakuda,
[24:05] Speaker 2: for argument's sake, they've moved to the Cape Town. But
[24:09] Speaker 2: the ANC or any other party calls them to come,
[24:11] Speaker 2: come help us because we think you can help us
[24:13] Speaker 2: turn around Joburg. And they come live here and they say, okay,
[24:15] Speaker 2: we'll move back here. I would take that as long as,
[24:19] Speaker 2: They've got the qualities to lead. That's a point I'm raising.
[24:22] Speaker 2: I think when you're looking at, oh, but have you
[24:24] Speaker 2: lived here? There are many people that have lived here,
[24:26] Speaker 2: and I don't know if they'll give you what as
[24:29] Speaker 2: a voter you actually want. Thank you so much, Christos,
[24:32] Speaker 2: for your thoughts. Let's hear what the other listeners think. Vili,
[24:36] Speaker 2: you are in Olive Dale. You want to talk about
[24:38] Speaker 2: the issue of pastors visiting churches ahead of elections. What
[24:40] Speaker 2: do you think?
[24:42] Speaker 14: Hello, hello. I wonder will those old politicians... try to
[24:47] Speaker 14: attend their own churches where they go regularly to ask
[24:50] Speaker 14: for a platform. They don't do that because, remember, the
[24:53] Speaker 14: parishioners are people from different parties who can't give one
[24:57] Speaker 14: person from one political party a platform in church. I
[25:01] Speaker 14: don't know.
[25:02] Speaker 2: And that's why I'm saying they're allowing campaigning on the podium,
[25:06] Speaker 2: on the pulpit. Because if it wasn't then just campaigning
[25:10] Speaker 2: for a particular party, then they would be more strategic
[25:13] Speaker 2: about it as a church. Because some of these churches
[25:15] Speaker 2: are very organized. They can say, Let's make sure next
[25:18] Speaker 2: week it's the DA, next week it's ANC, the other
[25:21] Speaker 2: week it's the EFF. Because that way then it becomes
[25:24] Speaker 2: more organized. Like when we do our debates, our mayoral debates, right?
[25:28] Speaker 2: You know, I don't just bring the leader of the
[25:30] Speaker 2: EFF here or the leader of RISE.
[25:32] Speaker 14: I mean, the church is not like a radio station.
[25:37] Speaker 14: You don't mind, we'll ask you to come and do
[25:39] Speaker 14: the appointment. Because they pay for it, they pay for it.
[25:43] Speaker 14: Any political party can approach you and you won't say
[25:46] Speaker 14: no because they pay for a church. You know, there's
[25:50] Speaker 14: nothing wrong.
[25:51] Speaker 2: You said they pay for what? To be the church
[25:53] Speaker 2: or to be on our shows?
[25:55] Speaker 10: No, no, no, no.
[25:56] Speaker 14: I'm talking about political parties. If they try to come
[26:00] Speaker 14: to your show, I don't think you'll refuse them because
[26:03] Speaker 14: they pay for that slot.
[26:04] Speaker 2: No, they don't. They don't. No, they don't. What they
[26:09] Speaker 2: pay for when you hear.
[26:12] Speaker 14: To come and put their points in the church.
[26:14] Speaker 2: No, they don't. No, that would be unethical. No, they
[26:19] Speaker 2: don't even pay at the SABC. That would be unethical, really.
[26:23] Speaker 2: They don't. But when you hear their advert play on
[26:26] Speaker 2: the radio, that is what they pay for. Any other
[26:29] Speaker 2: party can put on their advert. That's why even on TV,
[26:31] Speaker 2: when you see an EFF campaign.
[26:33] Speaker 14: What I'm trying to say, Kip, is that in our churches,
[26:36] Speaker 14: we can pray. I mean, we always pray for our politicians.
[26:39] Speaker 14: We pray for them. But we don't give them a
[26:41] Speaker 14: platform in the church to come and put their point,
[26:44] Speaker 14: party's point of view.
[26:45] Speaker 2: Yes, and that's the point I'm making. Why must they
[26:47] Speaker 2: get the... Did I play the clips of Julius and
[26:53] Speaker 2: the President Ramaphos? No, I haven't. Okay, let's take a break.
[26:56] Speaker 2: After the break, I'll play you some of the clips.
[26:59] Speaker 2: The President was at a church yesterday. Julius Malema was
[27:01] Speaker 2: at another church not so long ago. Just to give
[27:05] Speaker 2: you a sense of what they even say when they
[27:06] Speaker 2: are on the podium. because they're smart. They know how
[27:09] Speaker 2: to say the right thing so that it doesn't come
[27:11] Speaker 2: across as campaigning, but they'll say enough things for it
[27:14] Speaker 2: to be clear what they're there for. And again, to
[27:18] Speaker 2: be clear, politicians don't pay for money to come and
[27:22] Speaker 2: be on our shows. We don't do that. If they
[27:26] Speaker 2: want to come and campaign, in fact, we're the ones
[27:28] Speaker 2: who reach out to the politicians. We don't normally just say, oh,
[27:32] Speaker 2: that politician wants to come here and you just give
[27:34] Speaker 2: them the platform. It's We always judge it against how
[27:37] Speaker 2: valuable is it for you as a listener. It's 19
[27:40] Speaker 2: minutes before 10. 15 minutes before 10 o'clock. Let's continue
[27:52] Speaker 2: with your calls on 011-883-0702. Yvonne, you want to comment
[27:56] Speaker 2: on what I was asking about Helen Zilla. Have the
[27:58] Speaker 2: gimmicks hit you?
[28:01] Speaker 12: Yeah, they've hit me. I have to take my... my
[28:05] Speaker 12: grandkids to school, and when I picked them up, then
[28:10] Speaker 12: Helen's gimmicks come up, and then the age difference. Granny,
[28:16] Speaker 12: why don't you do like Helen? Why don't you, let's
[28:20] Speaker 12: go clean up. So ever since she started, I have
[28:23] Speaker 12: to clean up places and do all sorts of things.
[28:27] Speaker 12: So basically, she's educated it. She's educating our children. She's
[28:32] Speaker 12: brought politics down to the level that kids can understand
[28:36] Speaker 12: that this is my suburb. I have to keep it clean.
[28:39] Speaker 12: They even are afraid of littering. And most of all,
[28:44] Speaker 12: what I love is that these gimmicks of hers have
[28:47] Speaker 12: got a theme behind it. I don't know if you
[28:50] Speaker 12: saw the one about where she fixed up a whole
[28:53] Speaker 12: water system for I don't know where at a tenth
[28:57] Speaker 12: of the price of what the tender was. And I
[29:00] Speaker 12: just want to go back to one of your callers.
[29:01] Speaker 12: One of your callers said that the DA is not visible.
[29:06] Speaker 12: I beg to disagree, but I'm a radio person. I
[29:09] Speaker 12: like to listen to the radio all the time. And
[29:11] Speaker 12: all the time, all the years I've known the DA,
[29:14] Speaker 12: they're always in court fighting this and fighting that, fighting
[29:19] Speaker 12: this decision and fighting that decision, and the biggest decision
[29:22] Speaker 12: of all was the budget. So they've been visible, but
[29:26] Speaker 12: she's made it in our face and in a beautiful way.
[29:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, look, and that's why I'm asking the question, is
[29:33] Speaker 2: she seems to be leading with many of the polls
[29:36] Speaker 2: we've discussed and the polls that have come out. She
[29:40] Speaker 2: seems to have had a unique campaign. And please correct
[29:43] Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong. If you've picked up something different,
[29:46] Speaker 2: I haven't seen any other person campaigning for mayor of
[29:49] Speaker 2: Johannesburg or in any other metro for that matter who
[29:53] Speaker 2: has come up with a unique campaign like that. That
[29:55] Speaker 2: was strategic from the beginning. Hence, I'm asking, has it
[29:58] Speaker 2: worked for you? Has it worked for your kids? Because
[30:01] Speaker 2: part of the strategy was to demonstrate the service delivery failures,
[30:05] Speaker 2: the infrastructure deterioration through these gimmicks, through the snorkeling or
[30:14] Speaker 2: zip lining because those things then they go viral. I
[30:19] Speaker 2: see how even young, well, 36, 40-year-olds, they find those
[30:26] Speaker 2: things funny. But I doubt if they would perhaps be
[30:29] Speaker 2: a convincing factor for them to vote for her. Whereas
[30:32] Speaker 2: for young people, it could very well be. And this
[30:35] Speaker 2: is the vote and the elections for young people. If
[30:37] Speaker 2: young people come out in their numbers and they vote,
[30:40] Speaker 2: they are the ones that are going to decide who
[30:42] Speaker 2: the next government is or who gets the majority of
[30:45] Speaker 2: votes in many of the metros. So has it worked
[30:47] Speaker 2: for you? Has it not? Let me know, please. Let's
[30:51] Speaker 2: go to some WhatsApps. on 072702 and 702. Comment. Mr.
[30:56] Speaker 8: Manasela say, hey, I'm not a fan of that, you know,
[31:02] Speaker 8: element where politicians are allowed to come to church and
[31:06] Speaker 8: start addressing us.
[31:09] Speaker 2: I think that sometimes.
[31:13] Speaker 11: By phone, they also make a mistake. But shout out
[31:16] Speaker 11: to people like SC Matibula, Hope Restoration Ministries. They created
[31:21] Speaker 11: a platform for the candidates to come and get prayed for. Yes,
[31:26] Speaker 11: they did address here and there, but many mayor candidates
[31:30] Speaker 11: were given the opportunity to do that, which is much
[31:32] Speaker 11: better than having one political party come through. But that
[31:35] Speaker 11: was not a church service on a Sunday. That was
[31:38] Speaker 11: a different service altogether. where people came through at their
[31:44] Speaker 11: own accord.
[31:46] Speaker 2: No, thank you. Thank you. And look, and I get that. So,
[31:49] Speaker 2: by the way, if I was at a church where,
[31:53] Speaker 2: you know, they brought in the mayor, you know, after
[31:57] Speaker 2: the mayor has been announced and they want to pray
[31:59] Speaker 2: for the mayor, I get it. But if I'm at
[32:01] Speaker 2: a church that just, I mean, I get Ekuruleni, for instance,
[32:04] Speaker 2: to use Pastor Matebula, whom I actually quite know well.
[32:08] Speaker 2: such a lovely person who cares about this country. If
[32:11] Speaker 2: we are in a kuruleni and there are mayoral candidates
[32:14] Speaker 2: in a kuruleni, that's fine. You can bring them up
[32:17] Speaker 2: because you're trying to also educate your churches about the
[32:21] Speaker 2: people that are on option to vote for, right? I
[32:24] Speaker 2: get that because the strategy there then is I'm helping
[32:27] Speaker 2: the congregation. But this thing of, oh, the president is
[32:31] Speaker 2: joining us, gets a mic. Oh, the leader of the EFF. Oh,
[32:35] Speaker 2: the leader of Action SA is here to join us. Yo,
[32:38] Speaker 2: the worst part for me is when they pretend like
[32:43] Speaker 2: they're having so much fun in the church or, you know,
[32:46] Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit is over them, if you will. You know,
[32:49] Speaker 2: if they go to a apostolic church, you know, the
[32:52] Speaker 2: apostolic church, then you see them by that thing. And
[32:55] Speaker 2: then they're singing the song. And I'm thinking, you have
[33:01] Speaker 2: not even done that ever in your life. And maybe
[33:04] Speaker 2: you're having fun. But these are politicians. That's why I
[33:08] Speaker 2: always say to you, politicians care about their political expediency.
[33:15] Speaker 2: You just happen to be a person who's got needs
[33:20] Speaker 2: and demands, and they're going to use those to get
[33:25] Speaker 2: to the next level. That's what politicians do inherently. Now
[33:29] Speaker 2: we see them at our churches. You see them raising
[33:31] Speaker 2: their hands. Now you think, oh, what a great leader.
[33:38] Speaker 12: All right.
[33:39] Speaker 2: Well, good luck. It's 11 minutes before 10. Eight minutes
[33:50] Speaker 2: before 10 o'clock. I got a message from someone who says, Clement,
[33:54] Speaker 2: at the RUCC ministries, they did something innovative in Imtata.
[34:00] Speaker 2: This is about pastors and leaders who go to churches.
[34:03] Speaker 2: And then this person says, instead of allowing leaders to
[34:05] Speaker 2: come and give speeches, et cetera, they organized a debate
[34:08] Speaker 2: moderated by one of the pastors on a Sunday afternoon
[34:11] Speaker 2: after church and invited all party mayoral candidates to participate.
[34:15] Speaker 2: I found that more fitting. You see, that's a creative way.
[34:20] Speaker 2: Pastor or youth pastor, how about you moderate a conversation
[34:24] Speaker 2: among these mayoral candidates? I think that's more structured and
[34:30] Speaker 2: less campaign-y, for lack of a better word. Let's go
[34:34] Speaker 2: to John, who's calling us from Senton. John, what do
[34:38] Speaker 2: you want to say about Helen's campaign?
[34:40] Speaker 3: Morning, Clement.
[34:41] Speaker 2: Yes, just two quick points.
[34:43] Speaker 3: The first point, your previous quarter was talking about Helens
[34:46] Speaker 3: that are living in Joburg and not having a house here,
[34:48] Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. On that point, companies and big
[34:52] Speaker 3: corporate companies want to turn the company around.
[34:54] Speaker 2: What do they do?
[34:55] Speaker 3: They employ a CEO. He could come from France, Norway, Sweden, America, wherever.
[35:01] Speaker 3: He will come in, he'll live in that town, he'll
[35:04] Speaker 3: turn the company around, and that'll be it. So it
[35:07] Speaker 3: holds no water when he says that she doesn't have
[35:10] Speaker 3: a house in Joburg, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[35:11] Speaker 3: That's the first point. Second point, just quickly, is without
[35:15] Speaker 3: being biased at all, voters must vote for a party
[35:19] Speaker 3: that has a track record. We have been spun in
[35:22] Speaker 3: this country for 30 years by every party of what
[35:25] Speaker 3: they're going to do and what they can do. The
[35:28] Speaker 3: bottom line is they've done nothing. So vote, not emotion.
[35:35] Speaker 3: Don't vote emotionally. Vote for a party that you honestly
[35:38] Speaker 3: feel is going to turn Joburg around. Joburg needs somebody
[35:43] Speaker 3: that is serious to turn this town around. And my
[35:46] Speaker 3: personal opinion is, without being biased, the DA are the
[35:49] Speaker 3: only person that have got a track record and that
[35:51] Speaker 3: can turn it around.
[35:53] Speaker 2: All right, John Incenton, thank you so much for your call. Yeah,
[35:56] Speaker 2: and guys, to be clear again, I wasn't really asking
[35:58] Speaker 2: about a track record, right? These are the conversations we've had.
[36:01] Speaker 2: We've spoken many times even to these leaders. I'm asking
[36:05] Speaker 2: about campaigns. And I don't want people who are part
[36:09] Speaker 2: of these parties to then call and, yeah, let's just
[36:14] Speaker 2: have a rational, like unstructured, unplanned conversation. So you don't
[36:19] Speaker 2: need to call to, you know, Fight for Helen. Yes,
[36:23] Speaker 2: let's vote for Helen because they have a track record.
[36:25] Speaker 2: I'm just asking a more strategic question. We've seen her
[36:28] Speaker 2: campaign differently this year. Whether you're a member of the
[36:31] Speaker 2: DA or not, I want to hear, has it worked
[36:33] Speaker 2: or not? It's not an opportunity to campaign for them.
[36:37] Speaker 2: It's what do you think? Has it worked or not
[36:40] Speaker 2: for you? If it's just gimmicks, tell me that. If
[36:42] Speaker 2: you think it's great, tell me why you think it's
[36:44] Speaker 2: been great. Because I think she's been targeting young people
[36:47] Speaker 2: and I wonder if it's been lending. That's why I'm
[36:49] Speaker 2: opening up the conversation much, much wider. What are your thoughts?
[36:56] Speaker 2: Good morning. Hi, Clement.
[36:58] Speaker 10: Morning. I'm startled.
[37:02] Speaker 9: Why did the DA not use the president's videoclip where
[37:07] Speaker 9: he was confessing that the best run municipalities are mostly
[37:11] Speaker 9: by the DA?
[37:12] Speaker 2: Well, we still have two weeks before elections. Why did
[37:14] Speaker 2: they not use that? They shouldn't.
[37:17] Speaker 10: No, they should have.
[37:18] Speaker 9: They should have. I hammered that into everyone's head, that
[37:21] Speaker 9: even the president of the ANC has confessed.
[37:25] Speaker 10: Come on.
[37:27] Speaker 2: I think it's so funny.
[37:29] Speaker 10: To me, it's a low-hanging fruit.
[37:31] Speaker 2: Do you throw out your best campaign messaging in the
[37:35] Speaker 2: beginning or towards the end? I think you do it
[37:39] Speaker 2: towards the end, and I think that's what you must
[37:40] Speaker 2: look out for. Look out for what these different, and
[37:44] Speaker 2: not just the DA, but the different political parties are
[37:46] Speaker 2: going to do. They leave the best of their messaging
[37:49] Speaker 2: last because they want you when you're still fresh and
[37:51] Speaker 2: you're thinking, Oh, it's two days to go. It's four days.
[37:54] Speaker 2: It's seven days to go. That's where they need you
[37:57] Speaker 2: because in those seven days you need to be thinking, Ooh,
[38:00] Speaker 2: that campaign they ran or that messaging or this and
[38:03] Speaker 2: this that they did. So I suspect it may be coming,
[38:05] Speaker 2: but I could be wrong. Okay.
[38:07] Speaker 9: I let's hope so.
[38:09] Speaker 2: All right. Thank you for your thoughts. Here's some WhatsApp
[38:11] Speaker 2: voice notes.
[38:14] Speaker 1: I don't see anything wrong with politicians coming to church. Um,
[38:18] Speaker 1: But it's wrong that when our pastors get a chance
[38:22] Speaker 1: to tell these politicians the truth, they don't tell them
[38:25] Speaker 1: the truth about what they've been doing. You know, a
[38:29] Speaker 1: proper reflection. They would rather be quiet, like people who
[38:34] Speaker 1: get bribes, you know. But for them to come to church,
[38:38] Speaker 1: it's a good thing, man. They need God, these people.
[38:40] Speaker 1: Anonymous in Matrosan.
[38:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, but when do they need God? Do they need
[38:44] Speaker 2: God only a month before elections? Or are we saying
[38:48] Speaker 2: they need God generally? And it's okay. If you think
[38:52] Speaker 2: they need God only when they're about to campaign, then
[38:54] Speaker 2: that's fine. I'll take that from you. I just think
[38:57] Speaker 2: it's weird because it's not a message that we're preaching
[39:00] Speaker 2: in church. In church, we preach you need God in
[39:04] Speaker 2: the lows and the highs. In church, we preach you
[39:08] Speaker 2: need God when you're passing your exams, when you're failing them.
[39:11] Speaker 2: You need God when you're writing your exams, when you're not.
[39:13] Speaker 2: You need God when you're struggling with unemployment and even
[39:16] Speaker 2: when you've got a job. I worry that the precedent
[39:20] Speaker 2: we're setting and the messaging that we're indirectly sending when
[39:24] Speaker 2: we give these political leaders platforms on the sacred pulpit.
[39:30] Speaker 2: we're suggesting to people that it's okay to come to
[39:34] Speaker 2: God at the last minute do you think President Cyril
[39:37] Speaker 2: Ramaphosa will be returning to the Salvation Church in the
[39:40] Speaker 2: next coming two months or in the next coming year
[39:43] Speaker 2: or two years do you think Julius Malema will be
[39:47] Speaker 2: going back to the Gospel Fire Church I need to
[39:49] Speaker 2: play you their clips. Let's be circumspect. And I understand
[39:55] Speaker 2: that there can be a strategic decision behind you as
[39:59] Speaker 2: a pastor or as the leadership of the church deciding
[40:02] Speaker 2: to give Julius or Ramaphosa or whoever, Helen Zilla or Akshinese, Rise,
[40:08] Speaker 2: a platform to campaign on your pulpit. But is that
[40:13] Speaker 2: in the benefit of your congregation really? Or is it
[40:16] Speaker 2: more strategic? It's a minute before 10. Welcome to the
[40:22] Speaker 2: second hour of the Clement Manya Teller show. It's great
[40:25] Speaker 2: to have you stay with us here on 702. And
[40:28] Speaker 2: thank you for your contributions on the 702 open line
[40:31] Speaker 2: through your calls, your WhatsApps, your tweets as well. In fact,
[40:35] Speaker 2: I do want to play some of your WhatsApps that
[40:38] Speaker 2: have come through because I took more calls than WhatsApps
[40:41] Speaker 2: in the previous hour. And there are some, I think,
[40:44] Speaker 2: important even text messages that have come through that I'd
[40:47] Speaker 2: like to read for you. But before I get there,
[40:50] Speaker 2: take a listen to what the president was saying yesterday.
[40:55] Speaker 2: In fact, this is just where he was at the,
[40:57] Speaker 2: I think it's the Salvation Church in Kailisha. This happened
[41:02] Speaker 2: over the weekend. Thank you.
[41:05] Speaker 6: Thank you. Thank you. Let's be seated, please. I'd like
[41:13] Speaker 6: to greet you all in the name of Of our
[41:17] Speaker 6: Lord Jesus Christ. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Let me. Thank you all.
[41:29] Speaker 6: For this very rare opportunity.
[41:32] Speaker 2: It is rare.
[41:34] Speaker 6: The apostle said that. He will. Give the state of.
[41:44] Speaker 6: What did he say?
[41:45] Speaker 13: State of.
[41:48] Speaker 6: No, no, no, no, no. He didn't say the nation.
[41:53] Speaker 6: He said, I should give the state of the nation,
[41:56] Speaker 6: but I want to give the state of the church.
[42:00] Speaker 2: That is what the president says. Yesterday in the church,
[42:04] Speaker 2: she was at the Salvation Church. And sometimes they're very
[42:09] Speaker 2: much received by the congregation, as you can imagine. I mean,
[42:12] Speaker 2: if I was sitting there, I've never met a president.
[42:14] Speaker 2: That's exciting, right? Here's what Julius Malema said. They call
[42:21] Speaker 2: it the Gospel Fire Church.
[42:23] Speaker 15: We thank you for this opportunity. We thank you for
[42:28] Speaker 15: this opportunity. Just before the election on that day, Arabelle,
[42:50] Speaker 15: all of us will be on the road and all
[42:53] Speaker 15: of us will be going for elections. We hope that
[42:58] Speaker 15: day to pray for peaceful election. And let people choose
[43:13] Speaker 15: any other party of their choice without any form of intimidation.
[43:19] Speaker 2: That's Julius Malema at the Gospel Fire Church. And I
[43:22] Speaker 2: could play you more and more clips of what has
[43:26] Speaker 2: happened in many different churches. I just think there's a
[43:30] Speaker 2: way here that we can still pray for our political
[43:36] Speaker 2: leaders and our political parties without them necessarily having to
[43:40] Speaker 2: take the mic and speak the podium and I see
[43:44] Speaker 2: some of you on the WhatsApp line are saying but
[43:46] Speaker 2: you can't separate church from politics the ANC as always
[43:49] Speaker 2: ANC in fact was born in a church yeah and
[43:51] Speaker 2: then what happens after it was born in a church
[43:53] Speaker 2: did it stay in the church precisely I just think
[43:59] Speaker 2: as congregants they're congregants that are uncomfortable about sitting there
[44:04] Speaker 2: and because it's two weeks before elections they must sit
[44:06] Speaker 2: and listen for an hour and listen to a politician
[44:10] Speaker 2: who's there campaigning in a place of worship, there's ways
[44:15] Speaker 2: we can still become active participants as congregants in our democracy.
[44:24] Speaker 2: But I think sometimes it's very obvious that the pastors
[44:27] Speaker 2: are just allowing political leaders to campaign in the church.
[44:35] Speaker 16: Good morning. No, I'm making a very big mistake. Remember,
[44:40] Speaker 16: these political parties survived through churches.
[44:44] Speaker 2: And in church, that's where we find.
[44:47] Speaker 16: Supposedly sober people, you know. So I think it is
[44:52] Speaker 16: very important for churches to give all political parties who
[44:56] Speaker 16: send a request to be coming to visit their churches.
[45:00] Speaker 16: their church and say it out loud that they are
[45:03] Speaker 16: going to have a word, you know, as part of
[45:06] Speaker 16: campaign trade. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
[45:09] Speaker 16: I mean, that's where the people are. That's where the
[45:12] Speaker 16: residents are. So allow them.
[45:16] Speaker 13: Good morning, Clemens. My name is Paul Francis. I pastor
[45:19] Speaker 13: a church in Benoni, Actonville. And yes, I had some
[45:23] Speaker 13: of these politicians wanting to use the church and wanting
[45:27] Speaker 13: to address, uh, my congregants, and I refuse.
[45:34] Speaker 2: You are so right.
[45:36] Speaker 13: That is the place, the house of God, and everyone
[45:42] Speaker 13: is welcome. Yes, Jesus says, my house shall be called
[45:44] Speaker 13: the house of prayer for all nations. Everyone is welcome
[45:48] Speaker 13: to come and pray with us and listen to the
[45:50] Speaker 13: word of God, but they will not use the pulpit
[45:54] Speaker 13: that God has just selected.
[45:56] Speaker 2: For the minister's.
[46:01] Speaker 13: Anointed ministers, appointed ministers, that is holy place, and it
[46:06] Speaker 13: would not be used for anything else but to preach, teach,
[46:10] Speaker 13: and equip the body of Christ.
[46:14] Speaker 2: So some of the WhatsApps that have come through, I
[46:18] Speaker 2: stopped believing in politicians coming to check the day South
[46:21] Speaker 2: Africa's president visited our church and went on stage, conducted
[46:25] Speaker 2: the church's choir, and it all went south from there. Recently,
[46:28] Speaker 2: we had the MK party also visiting our church. And
[46:30] Speaker 2: the congregation wasn't so welcoming. You could tell by the
[46:33] Speaker 2: clapping of hands that they are not impressed. Our bishop
[46:36] Speaker 2: even said that the church welcomes all parties. There are
[46:39] Speaker 2: no favorites. Another one says, Hi Clement, church leaders are
[46:42] Speaker 2: visiting churches for prayers ahead of election. It's not party politics.
[46:46] Speaker 2: The church is politics. Politics is the church. The church
[46:49] Speaker 2: helped defeat apartheid. That's a message from Arthur. Yeah, sure.
[46:54] Speaker 2: So the church has helped defeat apartheid. The political parties
[46:58] Speaker 2: have always been in church. Where are they, though, when
[47:01] Speaker 2: also the church would want to see better service delivery? Like,
[47:05] Speaker 2: have you ever seen a mayor who comes to account
[47:08] Speaker 2: to a church congregation when they've already been elected? It's
[47:13] Speaker 2: a similar thing to parties who come to you and
[47:16] Speaker 2: they'll come and go to a chesanyama with you, frying
[47:19] Speaker 2: vors together suddenly because it's two weeks before elections. They're
[47:22] Speaker 2: going to come and kiss your babies. They help you
[47:25] Speaker 2: with your laundry. Do you think that's normal? Two weeks
[47:29] Speaker 2: before elections? Three months before elections? But during that time,
[47:34] Speaker 2: once you've voted them in, do you still see them
[47:37] Speaker 2: come and be interested in hearing you and what you
[47:40] Speaker 2: are concerned about? And that's a similar thing with the church.
[47:45] Speaker 2: Most of these political leaders go there because there's something
[47:48] Speaker 2: in it for them. And I think then it's us
[47:51] Speaker 2: as churches who must ask ourselves, why are we allowing
[47:54] Speaker 2: this to go like this? Why are we allowing them
[47:58] Speaker 2: the platform to campaign like that. It's 14 after 10.

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