# How to Make Work Less Like Junior High (A Tale of 2 Jasons) 5 | 10

An episode of [Radical Candor: Communication at Work](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1188489488), 17 May 2023, 45 min.

Audio: https://op3.dev/e/mgln.ai/e/p931447/traffic.megaphone.fm/RC9281034937.mp3?updated=1751616579

Clean escalation dictates managers not allow people to talk about one another to them behind each other’s backs and not engage in office gossip. Kim, Amy and Jason discuss how to make work less like junior high by implementing something Fred Kofman's clean escalation. The opposite of clean escalation is Manipulative Insincerity — talking about people instead of talking to them. When you triangulate, you end up creating politics. Each side becomes suspicious that you’re talking behind their back (which you are). The two begin to distrust each other and a toxic relationship develops. Read the show notes >> Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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