# Can Defense in Depth Work for AI? (with Adam Gleave)

An episode of [Future of Life Institute Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1170991978), 3 Oct 2025, 1 h 19 min.

Audio: https://media.transistor.fm/9ada1ade/0ed94484.mp3

Adam Gleave is co-founder and CEO of FAR.AI. In this cross-post from The Cognitive Revolution Podcast, he joins to discuss post-AGI scenarios and AI safety challenges. The conversation explores his three-tier framework for AI capabilities, gradual disempowerment concerns, defense-in-depth security, and research on training less deceptive models. Topics include timelines, interpretability limitations, scalable oversight techniques, and FAR.AI’s vertically integrated approach spanning technical research, policy advocacy, and field-building. LINKS: Adam Gleave - https://www.gleave.me FAR.AI - https://www.far.ai The Cognitive Revolution Podcast - https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) A Positive Post-AGI Vision (10:07) Surviving Gradual Disempowerment (16:34) Defining Powerful AIs (27:02) Solving Continual Learning (35:49) The Just-in-Time Safety Problem (42:14) Can Defense-in-Depth Work? (49:18) Fixing Alignment Problems (58:03) Safer Training Formulas (01:02:24) The Role of Interpretability (01:09:25) FAR.AI's Vertically Integrated Approach (01:14:14) Hiring at FAR.AI (01:16:02) The Future of Governance SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

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