# Raising Boys with Purpose: What Your Son Needs Most Before Age 10 | Molly DeFrank (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 29 Jul 2026, 31 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/9a28f5db-39e7-4c51-b49d-7fa40001ad8b/stream.mp3

For those who are new here, I occasionally release bonus episodes designed for a specific part of my audience. I have listeners from all kinds of faith backgrounds, and this episode is shared from a Christian perspective. If that’s not quite what you’re looking for today, feel free to explore the other episodes released this week - or join me back here next Tuesday for a conversation you won’t want to miss! ------------------ Raising boys in today's culture can feel both rewarding and overwhelming. As parents navigate conversations around identity, character, confidence, and faith, many are asking the same question: What do our sons need most from us during these formative years? In this episode, Diane sits down with author and mom of six, Molly DeFrank, to discuss her book, Mothering Boys: 8 Things Your Son Needs from You Before He Turns 10. Together, they explore the unique role mothers play in shaping their sons' hearts, helping them develop resilience, courage, emotional strength, and a strong biblical foundation. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Book: Digital Detox by Molly DeFrank • Podcast Episode: Masculinity Debate: Are Dating Apps Creating A Generation Of Incels?! Lonely Men Are More Dangerous Than Ever! • Connect with Molly • Website • Instagram • Book: Mothering Boys: 8 Things Your Son Needs from You Before He Turns 10 About Molly | Molly DeFrank is also the author of Digital Detox: The Two-Week Tech Reset for Kids. Molly graduated with a degree in International Relations from the University of California, Davis, where she met her wonderful husband, David. Molly is a mom of six, three boys and three girls, ages six to thirteen. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For those of you that are new around here, I release bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This episode is coming from a Christian perspective, so if that's not something you're interested in, check out one of the other episodes that dropped this week or joining back to your next week for episodes that you don't wanna miss.
[0:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And here's the kicker.
[0:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: John Newton was six years old when his mother died of tuberculosis.
[0:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that world altering impact that his mother made on his life was all done before he turned six years old.
[0:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if your mom and your listening, you are making such a huge consequential impact on your boy.
[0:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: on all your kids by showing up, by teaching them about God, by, you know, living out a robust faith, you are changing his life and you're changing the future.
[0:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is Diane Vodin and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Raising boys in today's culture can feel both rewarding and overwhelming.
[1:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: As parents navigate conversations around identity, character, confidence, and faith, many are asking the same question.
[1:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are our sons need most from us during these formative years?
[1:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In today's episode, I sit down with author and mom of six, Molly DeFranck to discuss her book, Mothering Boys, eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10.
[1:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Together we explore why the first 10 years are so foundational in a boy's life,
[1:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: With the unique influence mothers have on their son's development, building a deep sense of longing and emotional security, and raising sons with purpose rather than parenting with fear, along with so much more, but quickly before we get there, if you've been enjoying the minimalist mom's podcast and have yet to leave a rating in review, be sure to hit five stars, tell me your favorite guest or your favorite episode, and if you find this content beneficial today, make sure you share it with a friend who could also use the encouragement.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And with all that said, let's get into this conversation with Molly DeFrink.
[1:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you have this book, it's called Mothering Boys, eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10.
[2:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: While I was the subject of boys, something that you wanted to write about.
[2:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Great question.
[2:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My first book was Digital Detox, the two-week tech reset for kids.
[2:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And in researching that book, and just watching what's going on in the world, I noticed something kind of crazy was happening with our kids.
[2:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and specifically with boys.
[2:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I noticed that kids are not growing up, like they used to, they are just inundated with digital entertainment, and we hear a lot about how social media is impacting girls negatively.
[2:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But the fact of the matter is, our kids' devices are really hurting them and our boys too.
[2:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We don't talk about this enough.
[2:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Boys growing up today are
[2:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: kids, boys are two and a half times more likely to be suspended or expelled from school.
[2:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They account for half of the kids in the top 10% of graduating classes and twice as many kids in the bottom 10% of graduating classes are less likely to graduate high school, go to college, get a master's degree, they're struggling.
[3:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And
[3:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just saw this place for moms to really step it up and I know you talked so much about being intentional and that's really what this book is about.
[3:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's simple ways for moms to intentionally build up our boys and encourage them in ways that will really protect them and empower them to go out into the world and live the lives they're meant to live.
[3:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You have boys yourself, right?
[3:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I have three boys and three girls.
[3:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[3:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh my gosh, you have six kids.
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[3:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you have half of your children are boys.
[3:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yeah, I think I guess there are parts of mothering boys that do seem a little bit daunting for me.
[3:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't grow up around boys.
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They are very different than girls.
[3:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yet to me, I'm like, what an opportunity we have.
[3:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just look at my own life experience to help correct maybe some bad behavior we've seen too, but nonetheless, it does feel daunting.
[4:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, it is so important to acknowledge that boys and girls can be so different.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think that in our culture today, you know, we've watched, if you look back the last several decades, you'll see there's so much confusion about men and women and the differences and is it bad and is it good?
[4:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And, you know, for me, I based my life on my faith in God and what does he say about it?
[4:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So,
[4:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: that's where I just go back to.
[4:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What does the Bible say?
[4:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it looks like God designed differences between male and female, and those differences are blessing and they're good.
[4:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I think the time is ripe for moms, especially to kind of reframe that narrative that culture has been spewing at our boys, they're telling our boys the future's female.
[4:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And your masculinity is toxic and all of these messaging or messages that sort of tell them there's no place for them.
[4:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And moms, meanwhile, have this incredible opportunity.
[4:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's a bonus study out that says a child's worldview is primarily formed by the time he's 13 years old.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that's us moms.
[5:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're up like it's that's our turn to really pour in and form that worldview with little intentionality to really be mindful of what are those voices influencing our boys the average kid today is spending 40 hours a week on a device being influenced by whatever youtuber like who even knows is on the other side of that screen.
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's time to take that influence back and with a little simple intentionality we can really get in front of this and help our kids.
[5:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, there was a podcast episode that I had shared as my minimalist resource of the week, but it's on one of my favorite podcasts called Diary of a CEO and the episode aired on March 31st.
[5:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's called masculinity debate and it was a male and female both debating about loneliness and a lot of the things that you're saying, but it was truly, it was one of the best podcasts and debates that I've heard in quite some time and really encouraging.
[5:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But again, nonetheless,
[5:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: it feels like there's a lot of work to be done here to change society.
[6:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And to make it more balanced, I think you're right, this whole idea of future a female, I'm not opposed to females having a role in the future, but that doesn't mean that we exclude men in that future.
[6:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think that, yeah, there's this pendulum that I think we were trying to course correct, and it's like we went too far.
[6:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There needs to be a balance here.
[6:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, definitely, exactly, and obviously people will step out of bounds and harm others.
[6:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And you see examples of that that are to be condemned.
[6:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, you know, as far as strength and, you know, protection and providing and all of these great things that men can do, they should be empowered to do those things.
[6:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And we should really unleash that and help support our boys and speak life into them.
[6:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's just this huge opportunity moms have to do that.
[6:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[6:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so again, your book talks about the eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10.
[6:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would like to go through on a very broad level of these eight things.
[7:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So let's get into the first one and then we'll move through.
[7:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[7:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So the first thing you talk about is belonging.
[7:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like I mentioned, boys are lonely are than ever.
[7:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: A big chunk of Americans think it's like 20 or 25% of Americans are so lonely that they've it's basically eating them up inside.
[7:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's the same health hazard is smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Loneliness is an epidemic.
[7:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So teaching our sons that they belong from day one, I'm giving them that solid foundation.
[7:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's the first one
[7:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And really, very simple ways to instill this like family dinner is the simplest way to really teach our boys they always have a place.
[7:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If they've got a horrible day, if they had a great day and they want to celebrate, we're going to be here at the end of the day over spaghettiOs or fancy gourmet dinner, we're here, you're one of us, we're family.
[8:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: wired to, we're a little more relational.
[8:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Men don't tend to be quite as relational as women, so this is a great opportunity for moms to expand our young sense capacity for a relationship, and that includes eye contact, how to be a great conversationalist, how to really focus on self-forgetfulness, highlighting other people, you know, not being a me monster, those people who will only talk about themselves.
[8:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, you
[8:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you probably don't have to think very hard to call the mind an adult, like a grown human, who is like, can't do the back and forth of conversation.
[8:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, they're just always talking about themselves.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So we can teach our boys how to do that when they're young.
[8:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then just to continue skipping a rock through the eight things we've got authority teaching our boys to respect,
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: authority.
[8:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you ask teachers today, they'll tell you so much has changed.
[8:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Kids are not as respectful as they used to be and that starts with teaching our kids to respect their mom and dad.
[8:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Also respecting women, especially for our boys, your relationship with your boys and them understand each respect you as their mom is just a foundation for how they're going to treat women the rest of their life.
[9:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's really important teaching them about natural consequences
[9:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: today.
[9:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They just numb out on a device.
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But it's our job to teach them that.
[9:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How to have fun.
[9:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There are some powerful aspects to teaching your kids to laugh and even educating their sense of humor.
[9:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you're listening and you're thinking, gosh, my boy is only laugh at like potty humor.
[9:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't think that's very funny.
[9:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well,
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: it's your job to teach them like what is great humor, what are things that we laugh at, what are words that only belong in the bathroom, those kinds of things, and really being able to bring in laughter in a sense of humor to hardship, it improves resilience and improves your mental health.
[9:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So these are very great things, also bravery.
[9:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think Jonathan Heights said that we, this generation of parents, we are overprotecting our kids in the real world and underprotecting them online.
[9:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just give lots of tips for how moms can put their boys in situation to take those kinds of risks that actually do build up their self confidence, build up grit and then the Just a few more things tenderness teaching them to have a sense of wonder about the world and giving grace to other people what is grace, how do they extend that just really teaching them to how to be a well rounded person.
[10:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: how to get creative, getting outside, and then emotional durability, so they're not falling apart.
[10:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're not enslaved to their emotions, but they're not stuff in me there.
[10:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So really, those are the 10 things, and the book is all kinds of details about how to achieve those things when you got a two year old, who, as I talk about, is dump and syrup all over the kitchen and stomping around, and you're like, really, you want me to teach my kids those things when I got this mess.
[10:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, and you can, and it's simpler than you think, so that's what the book is.
[10:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, no.
[10:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's also good.
[10:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's so, yes, there's so much to pull from.
[10:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You gave us a lot to think about there.
[10:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm sure people are digesting that right now.
[10:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's just talk about you quickly and what a day might look like in the ways that you implement this in your household.
[11:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Obviously, again, you have six kids of varying ages, but how are you intentional in building up your kids in the day today?
[11:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, you've given us some practical examples throughout what you just shared, but let's dive a little bit deeper.
[11:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, definitely.
[11:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: One place that I've found to be really fruitful in being intentional with my kids is the car rides to school.
[11:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We have about 10 or 12 minutes and I'll turn off a radio and I'll keep like a devotional book, just tucked in the car and whoever finishes scarf in their bagel first, they're up and they'll read that day or whoever's sitting in the front seat, they'll read that daily devotional or I'll if I don't have that book, we'll read a proverb,
[11:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And if I didn't bring my Bible, pull it up on my phone and we'll talk about it.
[11:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it's really great.
[11:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And just to encourage you if you're listening, you're like, gosh, that sounds super, I don't know, not what we're doing right now.
[11:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just want to let you know that oftentimes these attempts fall flat and kids are fighting or they're yelling or they're annoyed at each other or whatever.
[12:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But other times, it doesn't.
[12:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It lands and they're really listening
[12:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I would just say part of my rhythm is just trying and trying and trying again.
[12:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Another way to be really intentional with my kids is just going for a walk.
[12:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: A couple mornings ago, one of my kids was up early and I was kind of looking forward, honestly, to going for a walk or a little jog by myself.
[12:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But it didn't go that way, and so I invited this kiddo on a walk, and it was actually a really sweet time, and we got to talk together, and I think there's something really powerful about just that physical, doing something physical together, and these habits catch on.
[12:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Also, you know, I'd read a while ago that kids today, I think this was from Andy Crouch, that unlike previous previous generations, they're not really observing their parents, like taking on long-term projects.
[12:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: physical things in the home and then watching their parents kind of come to like make something that's finished and really admiring that work.
[13:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's probably something like Amish family's do really well, you know, but in our current day and age, our kids, they're looking at a device where their parents are doing their work on the computer and the kids don't really know what's going on.
[13:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So there's something really powerful if you're listening, you're thinking,
[13:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, what can I bring my kid on in with me to do, like cooking dinner, making banana bread.
[13:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You got a couple of browning bananas on the countertop, ask a kid to join you and help measure and pour and it's really in those in between moments that your planting seeds and you're having some of the best conversation.
[13:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And unfortunately, I think our generation is allergic to downtime and in between time.
[13:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But
[13:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's where the gold is.
[13:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's where the magic happened.
[13:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I just really encourage you to kind of tune in and look for those opportunities.
[13:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and again, with six kids, I'm sure that you're you are having to be really intentional about your time because you're not going to be able to spend in our with every child each day, so I think even 15 minutes of that quality over quantity is still important.
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've talked about that before on the podcast with various guests, but okay, I don't know how to phrase this question, but it's something that I'm thinking like.
[14:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Where, I guess, where are we going wrong in parenting boys?
[14:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, what are some mistakes that you have seen that contribute to some of these?
[14:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't even want to call them bad habits, but just some of these problems that we're starting to notice in the culture.
[14:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[14:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think we are failing to give them a vision of what good true masculinity is and can look like and how beneficial it is for society and I think in that empty space.
[14:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: that's just getting filled in by whatever's kind of coming in through YouTube or just kind of whatever floats through TV shows, you know, whatever comes in our, you know, our kids are being discipled by something.
[15:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Is it you as you're either being taught and trained?
[15:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Is it their parents?
[15:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Or is it whatever is around them?
[15:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Is it the people on the school bus?
[15:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I really think that's it is
[15:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: just intentionally pouring into our kids.
[15:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I just do encourage you to like, I hurts a nugget that I hold on to that, you know, to see parenting is not as little tiny conversations, but as like one really long conversation, so that if part of it is, doesn't go the way you wanted it to, or it kind of falls flat, that
[15:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you got a long time to kind of try again and try again and try again.
[15:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm not to really feel like you're feeling, but to just seize the next opportunity.
[15:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, I think just connecting, helping our boys define what good masculinity is, what their calling is, what their purpose is.
[15:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's wild to me.
[15:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: how much our kids are struggling with purposelessness when you know we live in this world they're so we have so much we have more wealth and more access to each other and to every book under this I mean literacy rates today are
[16:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Astronomically high compared to what they have been historically and kids aren't spending that time reading or learning.
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're they're numbing out and they're getting bored and the reason why is because we're wired as human beings to interact with each other to connect in relationship and we're wired to use our gifts.
[16:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if we're not doing those things, we're going to feel lonely and sad and it's up to us as parents to kind of push through when our kids say, oh, that's boring.
[16:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't want to go knock on the neighbor's door or, you know, I don't want to go play outside.
[16:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't want to create or make.
[16:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Um, you know, it's up to us as parents to kind of nudge our kids through that with a good attitude and and show them really what their purpose in calling is in life to help them identify their gifts like what are they good at and so yeah, those are just some idiots.
[17:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's a couple more things I want to make sure that we touch on.
[17:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: a couple more things that I want to make sure we touch on before we wrap up.
[17:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: One thing I want to talk about is discipline.
[17:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like we haven't touched on that.
[17:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we are going to have these moments in times of correction.
[17:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But how can we do that and navigate that in a way that shapes character rather than just the behavior?
[17:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My frustration with my kids sometimes is like, oh, you're just doing this so you don't get in trouble.
[17:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not, you're not changing your heart.
[17:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And to me, I'm like, that's where we build the character.
[17:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So do you have any tips for how to navigate that?
[17:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[17:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think one of the most powerful tools is natural consequences.
[17:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I know there's a lot of parenting books that talk about that, but that's something I really hold on to.
[17:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I find to be very helpful because it makes it less personal when your kids are making poor decisions.
[18:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, well,
[18:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was your choice and so now this is what happened as a result and it kind of removes you from it.
[18:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I have a chapter in there about that which really helps with mom's mental health too.
[18:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think it's so easy to take it personally, but yeah, I think there's really two components to that and one is
[18:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: one is calling our kids up to respect us as their authority and really requiring that of them.
[18:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that to me is falls into the category of our faithfulness to God and our faithfulness to our calling as raising our kids because one of the commandments on one of God's commands is to honor your mother and father.
[18:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, I need to teach my kids that and that way I am obeying God too.
[18:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, I'm accountable to God in that.
[18:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But then also, I want my kids to obey not just like you were saying because they don't want to get a consequence, but because in their heart they want to do the right thing.
[19:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So,
[19:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think that's just a long, that's like a long road.
[19:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a long runway, a long road.
[19:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And the fact of the matter is, I can't change my kids' hearts.
[19:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can require them to obey and provide the natural consequences for them, but that's where probably some of my best parenting is done in prayer.
[19:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Just remembering to God saying, hey,
[19:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I see this in this kid.
[19:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm trying to be faithful to you.
[19:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know I'm accountable for how I steward this time with my kids and my authority over them.
[19:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But man, I'm not reaching this part and that's a part of their heart that only you can reach Lord, please help.
[19:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that's a prayer of mine a lot.
[19:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I also think there's a lot of freedom for parents and knowing
[19:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hey, we're accountable for what we can control and what God has called us to.
[19:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I don't want to let it slide when my kids are, you know, disobeying my authority because that's God's calling on my life right now in the season, but also being at peace with knowing that he's sovereign over all of it anyway, eventually.
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's kind of like the
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's where I think parents can take comfort in knowing, you know, it's good that I don't control everything because sometimes we, or at least we think we do.
[20:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that's what stresses us out is when we think like, oh, it's my job to make sure their heart is posture towards God in this way, but no, they're going to, that's on them and my job is to kind of stick for the world there.
[20:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've told my daughter this in regards to her friends that aren't believers.
[20:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, all you have to do is lead by example, share the great things that God's doing in your life, and then those seeds, like, God will water them.
[20:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: God is faithful, but all that to say.
[20:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, I do think that it's those seeds that are planted and we don't know what long-term that might turn into.
[20:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think that that was me some piece to say like yes, I'm not I'm not in control of it.
[21:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not in control of their hearts.
[21:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I can do the best I can.
[21:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think the biggest tip for me and people have heard this, but I for I apologize to them.
[21:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: whenever I've made a mistake in the way that my tone has been towards them, my position has been towards them just making sure that I apologize and we talked about forgiveness.
[21:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just think that that is a huge part in all of this as well because we are going to make mistakes and also having them know that I am a safe person to come to because I think for me and growing up
[21:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know.
[21:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know why I felt like my parents weren't safe to tell things too, but I got myself into some trouble because I guess I could have pulled myself out of some of the trouble that I found myself in from time to time.
[21:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If I had just been more transparent honest, but knowing that my parents weren't going to, I guess, not judge me, but just there was an element of fear there that I don't want to cultivate in my kids.
[21:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't have to make sense.
[21:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that totally makes sense.
[21:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think there is research out there that talks about, you know, kids raised in homes where they're going to church regularly.
[22:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And parents have an authentic and robust faith.
[22:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're just more likely to stay in the church.
[22:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that is sort of duh.
[22:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But at the same time, it's like,
[22:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, yeah, that's what they are, they're little disciples.
[22:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're going to become like, what you're like.
[22:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if you're going to own your your junk and you're going to apologize and walk out real authentic true faith in humility, then so will they.
[22:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I always think of the example, you know, parents get frustrated.
[22:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're like, how do I make my kids love God or how do I make my kids?
[22:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, live honestly are all these things and it's like, they are getting so much out of how you live your life.
[22:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, you don't need to look any further than like, what, what, what football team does your family root for?
[22:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's probably all the same.
[22:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I would bet most of the time it's all the same and it's because
[22:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: your kids like what you like and they watch you and they're like, I want to do that, too.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that's beautiful that you're, you know, if you're owning your junk and and repenting of your sin, like they're going to, they're going to do that, too.
[23:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think that's, that's the best way to be.
[23:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, in that same vein of being that witness to our children as well, it's, you must consider we're all hypocrites, but to really take note of where you might have some hypocrisy in the way that you're parenting them and telling them what to do and then you're behaving in the same way.
[23:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's, if I see my kids yelling at one another and then I'm yelling at them to stop yelling, it's like, oh my gosh, get off your high horse.
[23:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are you doing?
[23:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You got to calm down.
[23:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: not aggressive, but don't be so firm in what you're saying, if you're doing the opposite, that just I think the hypocrisy can really hurt your witness to them, not just in faith, but in what they want to cultivate their own lives totally.
[23:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's spot on.
[23:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It actually went to that chapter.
[23:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have in the book about being able to accurately appraise yourself and really kind of look in the mirror and assess yourself and own your junk.
[24:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, I love that.
[24:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[24:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, just like one more thing before we wrap up.
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that there might be a lot of moms listening and they're not in the same page with their partners, their husbands.
[24:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess what advice, what wisdom do you have to share with them?
[24:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because I know that can be a really big struggle.
[24:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I would say never underestimate the power of a faithful mother and a faithful wife.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I would say pray, pray for your husband, pray for your kids, pray for their hearts, and maybe I'll end with this really powerful story that I love so much.
[24:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I put this in the book, you know the guy, John Newton that wrote Amazing Grace, you know what song?
[24:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Amazing Grace, the classic him.
[24:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh yeah.
[24:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So he was a slave trader
[25:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Part took in all of these slave trading atrocities way back when and then he after years and years of living like that doing all these horrible things, he came to faith eventually.
[25:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And he actually, and he renounced his old life of doing these horrible things.
[25:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And at the end of the day, he credited his mother.
[25:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He said, you know, the reason why I eventually came to faith was because my mom, when I was little, she taught me about God and she taught me what was true.
[25:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And even though when I became a teenager, I really just
[25:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: didn't listen to any of it.
[25:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like I just went my own way.
[25:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was totally wavered.
[25:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I always had that nudge of God's word and knowing what is right and what is wrong.
[25:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it always nudged me and it eventually brought me back.
[25:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was really this anchor.
[25:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And here's the kicker.
[25:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: John Newton was six years old when his mother died of tuberculosis.
[25:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that world-altering impact that his mother made on his life was all done before he turned six years old.
[26:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if you're mom and you're listening,
[26:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you are making such a huge consequential impact on your boy, on all your kids, by showing up, by teaching them about God, by, you know, living out a robust faith, you are changing his life, and you're changing the future.
[26:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I would just encourage you to say the course and really put your faith first and pray for your kid.
[26:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is such a good word of encouragement.
[26:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But Molly, where can listeners find more about you and your book if they want to grab a copy?
[26:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, definitely.
[26:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You can find me at MollyDeframE.com.
[26:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You can buy the book, mothering boys.
[26:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Anywhere books are sold, Amazon, ChristianBOOK.com, Barnes & Noble.
[26:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think it's on Target Online.
[26:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'd love to hear from you.
[26:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I just want to encourage you if you're listening.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You've got this.
[27:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yeah, thanks for having me, Dan.
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Perfect.
[27:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, before we wrap things up here, I'm just going to ask you to quick rapid fire questions.
[27:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I asked all my guests and the first one is what's been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[27:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Ooh.
[27:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Honestly, audible.
[27:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love audible.
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love listening to books when I drive around or go for walks.
[27:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like feel so productive.
[27:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that definitely is a good one.
[27:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I used to have audible and I recently switched over to Spotify premium because it was slightly cheaper and you can stream a lot of new books for free.
[27:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You only get 15 hours a month to stream, but I felt like it was way worth it.
[27:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because sometimes I want to listen to a little bit of a book, especially nonfiction and see if I like it.
[27:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I really enjoyed that, but I'm a big audience.
[27:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know.
[27:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[27:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Alright, my last question for you is what is something that you can't stop talking about?
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What is the thing?
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He has something to tell you about.
[28:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Probably.
[28:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Let's just say food.
[28:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I like, I love food.
[28:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm always planning like what I'm gonna eat next and like where we're gonna eat.
[28:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My husband and I are, we're real big on date nights.
[28:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We have to go once a week.
[28:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like.
[28:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Very important to us, but I love thinking about it like a couple days ahead of time and like finding the menu of where we're going to eat and just picking it apart and figuring out what I'm going to get and looking at the pictures on yelp of the dishes that I want to eat.
[28:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just I love food.
[28:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm my parents were like foodie people and I'm just like I'm so.
[28:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And where are you again?
[28:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are you in an area that has good restaurants and good to?
[28:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so I live in Central California.
[28:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I grew up in Southern California like just outside of LA and then I went to school Northern California and I live in Central California.
[28:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And our food scene has actually really stepped it up probably over the last decade here in Fresno.
[28:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We've got incredible restaurants and it's so good.
[28:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We love to travel around California too.
[28:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Some of the coastal cities and just good food.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, I always talk about food.
[29:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, no California has.
[29:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think California has better food than New York City.
[29:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know some people may not have that opinion.
[29:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think I've only been to New York twice, but that's interesting, I've got to hear that.
[29:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really, it just seems, it's so fresh.
[29:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Everything just seems so fresh and grown there.
[29:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I just really like it.
[29:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I can't stop talking about Poodee.
[29:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're, I'm actually about to go eat dinner.
[29:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm six, it's seven, 14 here.
[29:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know it's like four, 14 where you are right now.
[29:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, right.
[29:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[29:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Look at my hope you enjoyed the dinner.
[29:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining me.
[29:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hope this was helpful to people.
[29:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know it's been an encouragement to me.
[29:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And again, to dive deeper into everything that we were talking about today.
[29:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just encourage listeners to follow you and pick up your books.
[29:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So thanks for joining me.
[29:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Thank you so much for having me.
[29:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What did you think of the episode?
[29:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[29:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[30:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[30:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[30:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.

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