# Teaching Kids to Trust Their Voice: Boundaries, Safety & Hard Conversations | Dr. Bronwen Carroll (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 17 Apr 2026, 28 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/77a5f469-0833-47df-9d79-1b72f732a42d/stream.mp3

In this episode, Diane sits down with pediatric emergency medicine physician and sexual abuse prevention advocate Dr. Bronwyn Carroll to talk about how parents can approach safety conversations with clarity and confidence. Dr. Carroll explains why these discussions should be treated as standard injury prevention - no different than seatbelts or smoke detectors - and how building a family culture of open communication helps children trust their instincts and speak up when something feels off. This episode offers a straightforward framework for helping kids understand boundaries, build confidence, and stay safe. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Previous Episode: A Proactive Approach to Talking with Your Teen About Pornography | Parker Hymas (EP15) • Previous Episode: Good Pictures Bad Pictures | Kristen Jenson (EP14) • Previous Episode: Online Safety for Families: Expert Advice from a Former NSA Cybersecurity Pro | Ben Gillenwater (EP410) • Article: Doctor's Orders: Your Kids Don't Have to Hug Anyone • Connect with Dr. Carroll: • Website • Instagram About Dr. Bronwen Carroll| Dr. Bronwen Carroll is a pediatric emergency medicine physician at Boston Medical Center and Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at Boston University Chobanian and Avedisian School of Medicine. She is a mother of four and the author of the forthcoming book, We Need To Be Talking About This(anticipated in fall 2027), which provides families with guidance about how to talk to our kids about preventing sexual abuse. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: For those of you that are new around here, I release bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, if this content is not what you're looking for, check out the other episode that dropped this week, or join me back here next week for an episode you don't want to miss.
[0:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I just wanted to give a little warning here at the beginning of this episode.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This conversation specifically with Dr. Brownman Carroll does contain content that might not be best for little years.
[0:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you might want to save this one for a later if kiddos are on.
[0:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And with that, let's get into the episode, and what conversational scaffolding is, is it's creating structure for future conversations, just like real scaffolding, it creates structure and it creates support, and it creates something for kids to turn back to.
[0:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the example that I like to use is pornography.
[0:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you've never had any conversation about pornography in your home, and your child is on an iPad and some video pops up.
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: First of all, if they don't have any idea that something like this could happen, that experience is likely to be even more confusing and upsetting than it's going to be at baseline.
[0:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But also, if there's never been a conversation about this, then your child is unlikely to know how to approach you, to know what words to use your child might not even know that you know that content like this exists.
[1:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[1:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Today's guest reframes a conversation that many parents feel unsure how to approach, and makes the case that it doesn't have to feel overwhelming or fear-based.
[1:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Instead, she encourages us to think about these topics as a form of everyday safety.
[1:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No different than teaching our kids to wear seatbelt or to look both ways before crossing the street.
[1:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Bronwyn Carroll, a pediatric emergency medicine physician and sexual abuse prevention advocate to talk about how we can normalize age-appropriate conversations with our kids around boundaries, consent, and safety.
[1:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We discuss what she calls conversational scaffolding, creating an environment where no topic is off limits, so kids feel comfortable coming to us even when something is confusing or uncomfortable.
[1:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She also shares very practical shifts we can use in our home that can have a lasting impact on how children understand their own boundaries.
[2:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This conversation is clear, grounded, and incredibly useful for any parent who wants to approach these topics with more confidence.
[2:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you enjoy this episode, make sure you hit five stars or leave a review and don't forget to share it with a friend that can benefit from listening along.
[2:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And with that, let's get into this conversation with Dr.
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But before we get into our conversation, why don't you go ahead briefly, and introduce yourself and what it is that you do?
[2:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sure, so I am a pediatric emergency medicine position, which means that I seek kids from birth to age 22 in the emergency department, but also I'm a sexual abuse prevention act.
[2:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, cool.
[2:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you've spent years in pediatric emergency medicine in child protection.
[2:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What have you seen that you think has most shaped how you think about keeping kids safe?
[2:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, the funny thing about this is that while I have seen kids who have experienced sexual abuse throughout my entire career, I didn't really begin my advocacy work until my daughter's teacher was arrested for possession of child sexual abuse materials.
[3:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: After that event, I was asked to speak at a community forum aimed at teachers and parents to help them understand the best way to approach this with their children.
[3:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what I learned from this experience is that despite the fact that sexual abuse is overwhelmingly the most common really bad thing to happen to children, parents and educators and just adults who care about kids weren't getting guidance on what they need to be speaking to their kids
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that's really what spurred my work.
[3:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, absolutely.
[3:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I definitely want to set the scene for parents or just give them, I know a lot of them are listening and this can be a conversation with a lot of fear or apprehension around it.
[3:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I would love for you just doing power parents here at the beginning and knowing that they're confident in having these discussions.
[3:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[4:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, talking to kids about sexual abuse prevention is intimidating at first.
[4:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think that parents feel a lot of barriers.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The first one is is that they worry that these conversations are going to be talking about the nitty-gritty of what sexual assault looks like, and that isn't it at all.
[4:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is going to be talking about concepts like listening to your inner voice and secrets and things like that.
[4:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And another thing that I think parents worry about a lot is causing their children anxiety, making their kids nervous or anxious based speaking about these topics.
[4:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so I think that the way that we approach it is we frame this as just another part of injury prevention.
[4:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We speak to kids about all kinds of things.
[4:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the way that I like to frame it is I say something like, even though I don't expect us to be in a car accident.
[4:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I always make you wear seat belts in the car or sit in your car seat and we live in a home that has smoked detectors even though I don't expect there to be a fire.
[4:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Along in the same lines, I want to speak to you about tricky adults and how to keep your body safe.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, I have never ever heard a parent say something like, you know, I really, we have a swimming pool but we don't really have any rules around that and I don't want to talk to my kids about drowning because I don't want
[5:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if we couldn't somebody say something like that, it would sound a little crazy.
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the problem is is that because sexual abuse prevention feels intimidating, we think of it that way.
[5:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if really, it really doesn't have to be, we need to normalize these conversations.
[5:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[5:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You believe that a family culture of openness in the home and that new topic is off-limit.
[5:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So how did this actually look like in your day-to-day life?
[5:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, so I think that what it is important, you know, every family has a culture.
[5:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: With that family culture, is of course going to look different for other families, you know, maybe it's based on an ethnic heritage or religious beliefs, maybe your family is really into camping.
[6:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It doesn't matter, family culture is everything that makes your family unique to you.
[6:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But one thing that we should all strive for is having open communication be part of our family culture and there are many reasons for this.
[6:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But by having open conversations with your kids, you're creating what I term conversational scaffolding.
[6:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what conversational scaffolding is, is it creating structure for future conversations.
[6:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just like real scaffolding, it creates structure and it creates support and it creates something for kids to turn back to.
[6:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the example that I like to use is pornography.
[6:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you've never had any conversation about pornography in your home, and your child is on an iPad and some video pops up.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: First of all, if they don't have any idea that something like this could happen that experience is likely to be even more confusing and upsetting than it's going to be at baseline.
[6:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But also, if there's never been a conversation about this, then your child is unlikely to know how to approach you, to know what words to use your child might not even know that you know that content like this exists.
[7:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if you've had some sort of conversation, then your child can say, hey mom, hey dad, do you remember that time you told me about videos that sometimes pop up on the internet with people not wearing clothes?
[7:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think that happened to me today.
[7:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So by having open conversations, starting when your kids are really, really young, it makes it a natural part of how your family communicates.
[7:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: that's important because it leaves open doors for your children to come to you.
[7:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's important because when it becomes a standard part of your family culture, as your kids get older, these conversations don't feel special or different or awkward.
[7:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They just feel like any other conversation.
[7:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'm so glad that you're speaking to these things because I do think my parents generation didn't speak these things and they left the door closed for a lot of these conversations.
[8:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: At least it felt like the door closed.
[8:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm sure that with my parents, the door would have been open.
[8:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It just they never signaled to me that that would be something being comfortable talked about because it wasn't that it was uncomfortable
[8:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: in general it's just that they were uncomfortable and they didn't know how to have those conversations so it could be a generational thing but I think teaching our kids that we are safe people and comfortable people to have these conversations with we are ultimately like building connection which is what our goal and desire is to be as parents.
[8:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: completely, and I agree with you about the generational thing.
[8:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I do think that most of us grew up in homes where these sorts of topics weren't discussed.
[8:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think that there has been a real cultural shift.
[8:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think that our generation of parents is just more comfortable talking about things generally in terms of the own mistakes we're making and mental health and all kinds of things.
[8:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so I think there's a shift in that way.
[8:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then additionally, I think that
[8:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: endless news cycles of stories of child exploitation have led a lot of people to feel like enough and to really want to be part of making a difference and so my goal with my work and my book is just giving families the tools to know how.
[9:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[9:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have a couple of episodes where I spoke about teaching kids about pornography, like how to have this conversation.
[9:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'll be sure to link those in the show notes, but I do want to talk about you emphasized helping kids trust their inner voice.
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think that can look different at four years old versus maybe at 10 years old.
[9:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'd love for you to explain that.
[9:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Absolutely.
[9:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So starting, you know, the easiest things to do with very young kids.
[9:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the first thing I say is that it's important to teach kids their anatomy.
[9:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That is the part of it that I actually think that parents are the most comfortable with and parents are most frequently doing.
[9:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it's important to remember to kids bodies or just bodies.
[9:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, all of the shame and uncomfortable with a comfortable nest that comes later, that comes from us.
[10:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That doesn't lie within them.
[10:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so teaching your kids are on an enemy is important for a few reasons.
[10:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's important because we teach kids the proper words for every other form of vocabulary.
[10:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so by not with this, it's creating some sort of shame like
[10:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: these things are so terrible that they can't even be spoken of, which is just not healthy.
[10:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then it's important for kids to have the proper word so that they can share if there's a problem.
[10:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Just if any form, it's, you know, they're in pain or to be able to communicate with doctors, but also childhood predators.
[10:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: tend to steer away from children who use proper anatomic terms and the reason why is because that signals that there are adults at home who are having open and honest conversations without shame and that feels threatening to a predator.
[10:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So by just teaching your kids their anatomy, you are providing them with a tool that's very easy.
[10:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But then the other thing that you were referring to with younger kids is
[10:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's so important to teach them to listen to their inner voice.
[11:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When you start looking for this, we so and frequently tell young children that what they're feeling is incorrect and can't be trusted.
[11:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we don't do it intentionally.
[11:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We, in fact, are well-intended, but a young child falls on the playground and we say, oh you're okay!
[11:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: but they're crying because they don't feel low.
[11:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what we're trying to communicate is I don't think you're seriously injured.
[11:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But we don't say that.
[11:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so, a much better thing is to acknowledge that hurt, your crying is that hurt or that felt scared.
[11:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think you're going to be okay.
[11:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Let me hold you until you're feeling better.
[11:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Is a way that you can communicate the same message while also acknowledging their feelings.
[11:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We do this with kids and fear all the time.
[11:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We tell them that there's nothing to be afraid of.
[11:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You see this especially with kids who are afraid of dogs.
[11:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you frequently have well-intended dog owners telling children that their dogs are friendly.
[12:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: which completely misses the point that the child is afraid.
[12:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We don't tell adults who are afraid of flying that planes are safe and expect that to fix their anxiety.
[12:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And yet children who have fewer coping skills and fewer life experience, we just tell them that their anxiety is wrong instead of acknowledging.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so we need to start teaching kids that what they feel is true and that we want them to feel confident listening to that.
[12:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the reason why is because that inner voice is the same inner voice as they get older that's going to say to them, leave the party, get out of the car.
[12:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: don't take the drink and the day.
[12:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We want kids to feel confident listening to that little voice inside that we all have that sends us messages.
[12:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Those are self-protecting instincts so we want to encourage them.
[12:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: so good.
[12:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I want to pause here and talk about boundaries.
[12:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think a lot of people are really well-intentioned in telling their child how grandpa goodbye are give and marry a kiss and it goes against a lot of what you're saying about this intuitive nature that maybe I don't want to and I'm feeling forced.
[13:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Absolutely, I publish an article on exactly that, and say, right around the holidays, saying that this holiday season, where we end that.
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Again, exactly, that's listening to your inner voice.
[13:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So the last thing that we want to give our children is the message that they are expected to show it also, affection on demand, or maybe even worse, that they need to show physical affection to keep adults happy.
[13:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Obviously, those things are not their job and those are dangerous lessons.
[13:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is a great way to encourage kids to listen to their inner voice.
[13:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Now, I think parents can feel uncomfortable in these situations, particularly in families, where there can be a lot of judgment.
[13:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because they don't want their relatives to be offended.
[13:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They don't want people to perceive their children as unfriendly or ungrateful or whatever it is.
[14:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think that's something the parents just have to get past and you can simultaneously acknowledge your children's feelings while being respectful of relatives.
[14:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so you can save your child.
[14:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It seems like you don't feel like giving a hug right now.
[14:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maybe you want to give a little wave.
[14:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maybe they do, maybe they don't, either way, you accepted and you move on and that way you've signal to your relatives, you're not forcing affection, but probably more importantly, you're signaling to your child that you're picking up on their cues, you respect their inner voice and you're supporting them and listening to that.
[14:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I mean, this is a great conversation to have around consent in general and like when it's appropriate to touch someone.
[14:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was just having that with my sexual the other day.
[14:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think all of this is connected.
[14:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And as you said, they start listening to that inner sense of self.
[15:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They know to get out of the car.
[15:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They know to not take the drink.
[15:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so having these conversations when the stakes are low and when
[15:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Again, age appropriately, it just seems like it's not as titillating for them if we're introducing these things much earlier.
[15:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Of course, this is the same thing with boundaries.
[15:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So my advice to families is ideally, you start having these conversations when your kids are babies.
[15:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the point of that is not to benefit the baby.
[15:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The point of that is to give parents practice and to weave these conversations into your family culture.
[15:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I like that time.
[15:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can check a lot of boxes in about time.
[15:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One of them is anatomy, you're washing all the parts, head to toe.
[15:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The other part of it can be saying,
[15:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: because I'm your mom and I'm helping you keep your body clean.
[15:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the parts of your body covered by evading suit are for you.
[15:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think parents are pretty good at this part.
[15:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I like to say, you are your own body boss.
[15:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And as boss of your own body, you decide who's touching you.
[16:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and who you touch.
[16:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think the who you touch part is the part that currents aren't always doing the second half.
[16:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So what I like to say is when I say the parts of your body covered by a bidding suit or private, no adult needs to be touching those parts of your body.
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'll say, you know,
[16:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Daddy or I, or caretakers, you know, may help you in the bath tub or help you in the bathroom, but other than that, the parts of your body covered by a bathing suit or private, and no adults need to be touching those parts of your body.
[16:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The second part, which is maybe more important is, and also, no adults need to be showing you those parts of their grown-up bodies, or having to do touch those parts of their grown-up bodies.
[16:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that piece of it often gets lost and is equally important part of the message.
[16:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Are there signs that we should look out for early guidance with our kiddos if they are acting like two touching feeling with the friend should we step in or is that normal?
[17:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think what it's useful to encourage kids to do in you reference this before is all that this is about concept and so and not necessarily in terms of sexual touch just I mean of course with sexual touch but just with general touch and so with preschoolers or even you know younger like I might I can remember once one of my daughters when they were quite young was like poking another kid in the face it wasn't
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: violent per se, but probably nobody wants to be hooked in the face, right?
[17:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because that just is an aversive stimulus.
[17:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so hey, let's check in with our friend and see if she wants you doing that to her body.
[17:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because just like you're the boss of your body, she's the boss of her body.
[17:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so just sort of emphasizing the chipping in and it's not even just with touch, it's also with playing, you know, is that are you having fun?
[17:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do you like this activity?
[18:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Does this feel fun for you?
[18:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, maybe a game feel scary for another child.
[18:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: feels scared, you know, sometimes at the playground, like going too high.
[18:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so this pointing out these cues to kids, the different people enjoy different things, different people feel differently about different things.
[18:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's super important to check in with people who you care about, get your friends, get your siblings, that is whatever you're doing, how are they?
[18:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Are they good?
[18:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that's good.
[18:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's good.
[18:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know that I've had similar conversations that you and I are having my little group of my sister, my cousin, and my sister, and I'll have these conversations, and we all have different perspectives obviously, but I've heard in that group, I don't want to take it with my child's innocence by explaining these things to young.
[19:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How would you respond to that?
[19:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would say at least 10
[19:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so if you want to talk about taking away in a sense, that takes away in a sense.
[19:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, a lot of parenting is about choosing your heart, right?
[19:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Choosing between heart things, sleep training as hard.
[19:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Having a baby who won't sleep as hard.
[19:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Introducing new foods and not having them, having a child even try them, that feels hard.
[19:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But having a child who only eat two things, that's hard to, right?
[19:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so, what I would say is that in this case, having as conversations can feel hard at first, but without question, having a child sexually abused is going to be harder.
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's going to be harder for you, but much more importantly, it's going to be harder for the child.
[19:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then the other thing that I would say on that topic is a little bit of how we started off, which is that I think in the beginning, these conversations don't necessarily have to be anything that's taking away innocence.
[20:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The best message that you can give your kids is that adults don't ask kids to keep secrets.
[20:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: a secret from a suppress.
[20:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So with a surprise, the person is expected to find out and is expected to be happy.
[20:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A surprise is making grandma a cake for her birthday.
[20:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She's going to get the cake we expect her to like it.
[20:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A secret from her.
[20:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if you just teach children that adults never ask kids to keep secrets,
[20:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if an adult ever asks you to keep a secret.
[20:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Even if they say that something that is going to happen if you tell, that isn't true, and you should talk to us about it.
[20:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we will protect you.
[20:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We will keep you safe.
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Some secrets are really important.
[20:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Some secrets might not be a big deal, but we'll work through that part together.
[20:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So conversations like that protect against sexual abuse, and I don't think are particularly stealing of innocence.
[20:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then one, you know, so for child predators to what child predators required to abuse a child as three things, they need access to the child, they need compliance from the child and they need secrecy.
[21:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that addresses the secrecy piece right there.
[21:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Compliances achieved through grooming.
[21:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And by the time kids are school aged or even younger, they shouldn't know what grooming behaviors
[21:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But again, I think that you frame at as part of injury prevention, just like carcy, just like drowning, just like what to do in a fire, we're going to talk about what to do if you see these behaviors that can be signs of an adult who wants to have unhealthy interactions with kids.
[21:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so good.
[21:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Another conversation or another thought that I hear when I'm with that group is oh, I've waited too long.
[21:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My child is already this age getting close to the teenage years.
[21:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Are they already probably no, I simply can't go back.
[21:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How do they have that conversation just to like, make sure even?
[21:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, I think that's a great question.
[21:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think going into the teenage years, there are all sorts of slightly different but equivalent risks.
[22:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so that conversation might look like as you're getting older, it is completely normal and healthy to come interested in romantic relationships and to be curious about sex.
[22:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that is all fine.
[22:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I want you to know that we can have these conversations,
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Explain to kids that both in real life and online it is never okay for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a kid
[22:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then you can backtrack and talk about what compliance and what grooming looks like because while it's different in younger kids, maybe kids who are in grade school, the exact same thing happens in adolescence.
[22:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is what's happening with, you know, there are so many stories, teenagers having inappropriate relationships and they're not relationships like romantic relationships, but the kids think they are.
[23:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They don't, you know, the way that these things start out is top predators are very smart.
[23:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so with older kids with teenagers, they frame at us love.
[23:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so these kids genuinely think that their teachers are in love with them.
[23:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When really, you know, in these situations, they're being manipulated.
[23:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so it's the same conversation.
[23:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just framed differently with older kids.
[23:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
[23:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, kind of as we wrap things up here, if there was one message that you won't want, a listener to instill in their child that that child knew about themselves and their confidence, like a core belief, what would you want that to be?
[23:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That I am a competent person going through the world, and I know how to keep myself safe.
[23:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, the way in terms of anxiety and all of these things not wanting to rob kids
[23:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think I'm sad that we want to establish with kids is that the world is not only a safe place.
[24:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There are so many people looking out for them, be them people who love them, who are keeping them safe, and just people whose job it is to be helpers who are keeping them safe.
[24:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But that in addition, they can have tools to keep them self-safe, because knowledge is a superpower, and we want them to have knowledge
[24:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: so good.
[24:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, Dr. Carol, if listeners want to connect, hear more from you, find more of your articles that you've written.
[24:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I found the one on psychology today, so I'll be sure to link that in the show notes.
[24:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But where can they find you online?
[24:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Absolutely.
[24:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I have a website.
[24:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's Bronwyncarellmd.com.
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am newly on social media.
[24:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Although it's been interesting because Instagram is sort of censoring me.
[24:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: fascinating from a cultural perspective because if you actually listen to what I'm saying as a professional person, there's insulation about it.
[25:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But anyway, you have to look for me on Instagram to find me, but I'm there and I don't have many, many reals that are just sort of short versions of this kind of content and TikTok too.
[25:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Perfect.
[25:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, as your app things up here, I always ask my guests just to final rapid fire questions at the end to get to know you a little bit better.
[25:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know that was kind of a heavy topic, so we can just breathe a little bit listeners.
[25:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think just here before we get in those, I'm just really grateful like I said for the empowerment here that we can confidently step into these conversations with our kids, they're going to be better for it.
[25:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We'll have a better connection with them, so I really do appreciate your work here.
[25:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But my final two questions are, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The fact that my parents instilled in me when I was young, that it's okay to not go with the crowd.
[25:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's okay to listen to your inner voice and to do things differently and to not worry about what everybody else is doing, but just to be confident in your own.
[25:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[25:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's great advice.
[25:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Final question is what is one thing you can't stop talking about?
[26:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I can't stop talking about how we are not talking about sexual abuse.
[26:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I really can't because it is crazy, I so I work with an academic medical center so I work with residents who are learning to be doctors.
[26:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and that way, could you imagine if aliens came to Earth and they wanted to learn about pediatrics and what we do?
[26:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we would say, well, you know, kids can get seconds, so we give them this medicine and we do these injury prevention things.
[26:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we do this that in the next thing.
[26:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And, oh, the most common really bad thing to happen to kids.
[26:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, nobody talks about that here.
[26:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's crazy.
[26:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and it's crazy, and like I said, unfortunately, I do think it was a disservice done to if it was a generational thing to not have these conversations and it put us my generation your generation in
[26:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: in circumstances that we maybe could have been removed from had we had had some of these conversations.
[26:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So again just leaning into the empowerment, getting comfortable with the things that make us feel uncomfortable, questioning that and putting that back on ourselves and saying like this is not uncomfortable for them.
[27:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Why am I so uncomfortable?
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Maybe even getting to the root of that I think is so important and a huge help with some of these conversations.
[27:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So again I just appreciate the work that you're doing then this area and hopefully this was helpful to people.
[27:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Absolutely thanks for having me.
[27:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[27:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[27:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.

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