# From Worry to Wholeness | Nichole J. Suvar (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 27 May 2026, 31 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/d0aa4444-8bb0-4ca8-a926-4e9446dab88d/stream.mp3

Note: I have listeners of all faith backgrounds that listen to the podcast. This episode is coming from a christian perspective so if that’s something that doesn’t fit what you’re looking for, check out the other episode that dropped this week or join me back here next Tuesday for a conversation that you don’t want to miss! --------------------------------------- After spending more than 30 years living with undiagnosed anxiety, Nicole J. Suvar spent much of her life searching for peace through perfectionism, control, and constant activity - only to find those efforts deepened her unrest. In this episode, Nicole shares how shame and “good Christian” expectations delayed her from seeking help, especially within motherhood and seasons of uncertainty. The conversation explores the difference between stewarding responsibilities and trying to control outcomes, along with practical ways to create more peace through prayer, Sabbath rest, boundaries, and simple daily rhythms that help reset the mind and body. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Nichole's Resource: Merlin Bird ID App • Connect with Nichole • Website • Instagram • Book: I Don't Have to Hold It All Together: Cultivating the Peace of Eden When Feeling Overwhelmed About Nicole| Nichole J. Suvar is a writer, speaker, and intentional living coach on a mission to help overwhelmed women embrace God’s design for mental wellness. She's the author I Don't Have to Hold it All Together: Cultivating the Peace of Eden When Feeling Overwhelmed. Nichole partners with several nonprofit organizations, locally and nationwide, to promote mental wellness and faith through meaningful conversations. She and her husband, Paul, live in Indiana with their three teens. You can find Nichole trying in vain to keep the cupboards stocked for her always-hungry teens, hiking a new trail and soaking in the quiet with her husband, or savoring cheddar cheese with pickles like a gourmet meal. Connect with her at LiveWithIntent.org. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: For those of you that are new around here, I release bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This episode is coming from a Christian perspective, so if that's not something you're interested in, check out one of the other episodes that dropped this week or joining back to your next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
[0:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I realized, oh no, I've actually been very anxious this whole time.
[0:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just when they were younger, I had control.
[0:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think that there's others out there that maybe don't realize how anxious they are with things because they're so good at controlling.
[0:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're environment controlling, they're people controlling the things, the schedules.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowdann, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: After spending more than 30 years living with undiagnosed anxiety, Nicole J. Subar spent much of her life searching for peace through perfection, control, and constant activity, only to find those efforts deep into her unrest.
[0:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's episode, I speak to Nicole about her new book, I don't have to hold it all together, and the journey toward experiencing peace in a more honest, sustainable way.
[1:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Nicole shares how shame and, quote unquote, good Christian expectations delayed her from seeking help, especially within motherhood and seasons of uncertainty.
[1:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The conversation explores the difference between stewarding responsibilities and trying to control outcomes, along with practical ways to create more peace through prayer, Sabbath rest, boundaries, and simple daily rhythms that help reset the mind and body.
[1:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you've been enjoying the bonus content here on the minimalist mom's podcast, or any of the content here for that matter, make sure to hit five stars and make sure you're subscribed so you never miss a guest.
[1:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm super intentional about who I choose to bring on the podcast, and Nicole really blew me out of the water with this conversation.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's so much goodness here and ways to think about anxiety that I never had thought up before.
[1:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So with that, let's get into the conversation with Nicole.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well Nicole, it's so great to have you here.
[1:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't wait to jump into our conversation today, but before we get there why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the listeners and tell me a little bit more about what it is that you do.
[1:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, my name is Nicole Subar.
[2:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I am a speaker and an author.
[2:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My ministry revolves around mental wellness, more specifically, God's design, for mental wellness.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that stems from my own experience of living with anxiety pretty much my entire life.
[2:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I live in the Midwest with my high school sweetheart, married to him for 24 years.
[2:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we have,
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Three teenagers.
[2:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have a 1918 and 16 year old.
[2:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we are right in the middle of all of that.
[2:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm curious to know what prompted this line of work for you.
[2:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like you said, you were struggling with anxiety, but why was this something that you wanted to pursue as a career?
[2:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so I, like I said, I've known anxiety my whole life, but I, for most of it, I didn't know that's what it was.
[2:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have memories going back to like third grade having panic attacks and not knowing what that exactly was.
[2:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just knew that.
[3:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I couldn't hardly function, and so I would go and tell my teacher, and what my language would be like, I'm worried about something, and so it was always, oh, don't worry about it.
[3:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, that's not that big a deal.
[3:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I would get the same answers from my parents, and I don't blame any of them because back in the 90s, like there wasn't a whole lot of language around that stuff.
[3:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I also, I just was always telling them I was really worried, and so I don't think people really knew the depths of how much that anxiety was affecting me.
[3:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it wasn't until I was 36 years old that I got a diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder and major depression.
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's because for most of my life I was just trying to hold on and do better.
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was trying to not worry about it to just forget about it and that it's not that big of a deal.
[3:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was trying to function with it.
[3:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And
[3:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and think part of the language or part of what revolved around is the fact that I was a Christian, I became a Christian, and I was like 14, and there became the shame that I attached to the fact that I could not get rid of this worry, because I thought it's a good Christian, I shouldn't worry, and I couldn't get rid of it, and
[4:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I kept telling people and their answers were, again, the don't worry about it, it's not the big deal, but then also have you prayed about it, are you reading your Bible?
[4:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was doing all those things, but I could not get past it.
[4:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I just put it back on myself that in my must be the problem.
[4:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so when I finally got a diagnosis and it started getting answers, it started getting help through counseling and medication, realizing that there are more people out there.
[4:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was already writing and there was an article that I wrote for my blog that I for the first time, I spoke out about my struggle with anxiety and the amount of people that responded to that saying like me too or this is how I've experienced it.
[4:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: realizing that I need to keep sharing this and letting people know that they're not alone.
[4:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that there are people that are finding out earlier than 36 years old that it is okay to struggle with these things and still love Jesus and that He still takes you and that you are still useful and able to be His hands and be in the kingdom even though you've got this thing that just keeps coming at you.
[5:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, I do think it's interesting that we feel like we have to have it completely together as Christians because obviously we know we're not going to be perfect until the day of Christ Jesus we're told that in scripture and yet we feel like we have to have it completely together or you said quote unquote we hear like we have to be the good Christian like that just this good Christian equals this and it means we won't have struggles, but I think even outside of anxiety like we wouldn't judge someone that has fill in the blank.
[5:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: struggles.
[5:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think sometimes when it's, when it's our struggle, it obviously feels heavier than maybe what someone else is going through.
[5:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like easier to move through, um, like maybe we should have an easier time moving through it.
[5:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think we get wrapped up in the mental side of this too, like, and we're in our own heads about how to solve it.
[5:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I love how in your new book, kind of switching into your new book, you have a book called, I don't have to hold it all together, cultivating the peace of Eden when feeling overwhelmed.
[5:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I really love that you're going back to
[6:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and feeling like we're enough.
[6:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm curious to know why you chose to start there.
[6:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, Eden, you think about the Garden of Eden, where it started, there was peace, there was comfort.
[6:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was all under control.
[6:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It because like, God was the creator and he was there and he was in it.
[6:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think often like that is what our image of someone says like, Garden of Eden, we picture that perfection.
[6:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And as someone who struggles with anxiety, like a part of, there's often, if you know an anxious person, there's generally something about them that they struggle with perfection.
[6:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because maybe they wouldn't even realize that they are perfectionist, but what is at the root of it is the fact that we like control?
[6:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because when we are anxious,
[6:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the best ways that we feel like we need to address it is to start getting things under control.
[7:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like that is our comfort is just knowing where everything is at and how it is happening and what the outcome is going to be.
[7:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what that ends up doing is we are building our own Eden by making our own control in our own comfort.
[7:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But the problem is when we build our own garden of Eden
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're in charge of maintaining it.
[7:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If we're the ones that created it, we are the ones who maintain it.
[7:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So instead thinking about the garden, the true garden that God created, he is the one who created it.
[7:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He is the one to maintain it.
[7:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And even though the fall has happened, there are still parts of Eden that are here today that God has left us as gifts to still access that part of him that
[7:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that's so good.
[7:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I, truly, I've never heard it articulated in such a way, and again, just yearning, we do yearning for that piece in that time and looking back to how things were, and obviously we only have a glimpse of that through Scripture, but just even like building it up in our imagination, just how lovely it would be, you describe anxiety as a part of a misdirected search for peace.
[8:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm curious to know how you see that playing out for women, specifically mothers, even.
[8:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I stick it for my own experience of just thinking of like when my kids were younger, there was a, I knew I worried a lot.
[8:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, that was before I had a diagnosis.
[8:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I didn't even know I had this disorder going on that was that needed more than just trying harder.
[8:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I just thought I was just worried that per warrior person, but when my children were younger, that was the one area that I was like, I don't think I'm a warrior about my kids like that's the one area I feel good about everything else in my life.
[8:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I worry about, but it wasn't until they hit the teen years and I got less control with them.
[9:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I realized, oh, no, I've actually been very anxious this whole time.
[9:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just when they were younger, I had control.
[9:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think that there's others out there that maybe don't realize how anxious they are with things because they're so good at controlling their environment controlling their people controlling the things the schedules and there's no
[9:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: problem with maintaining what we've been given.
[9:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The problem is like understanding what was been given to us to steward and what are the things that actually belong to God and we need to trust him for those outcomes for the fruit, for the provision instead of us being the ones that are trying to hold it all and hold it all together.
[9:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: absolutely.
[9:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I could see that happening for myself because I do have control tendencies, which are control, I guess are control anxiety.
[9:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In worry, they all seem to be somewhat connected.
[9:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, yeah, I feel like when my daughter starts driving, it's not even that I'm concerned as much about her as I am other people that I can't control.
[10:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like I can't control the others influence or if they're looking at their phones or hurt their drunk or if they're driving crazily.
[10:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, me feeling at a control.
[10:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I could see that happening a lot more, but yeah, it's connected to worry.
[10:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's connected to all of these things.
[10:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes.
[10:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we, okay, so I'm my youngest, just turn 16.
[10:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're going any day now to go to the BMV to get her driver's license.
[10:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this is like third one and last one to go through this.
[10:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's not any easier.
[10:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sorry out there.
[10:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: as we get, go through each one, but what I'm finding is like the anxiety does, if I sit and I start dwelling on it, I can get start getting very anxious about the fact that any of them are on the road.
[10:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so what we want to do is we want to control some of it or we want to be in it so we pull up our app and we're watching them on the road.
[10:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we're wanting to know when they leave a place and when they get there and and they're it's okay again to be informed.
[11:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I've had to like watch myself and be like, you know, I'm not gonna open that app and see where my child is at.
[11:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know that there needs to be a level of trust that I need to start building even in myself, not only for my child, but I need to trust God, that he cares for my child more than I do.
[11:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And maybe I need to have an app to like watch them at all times, but who am I?
[11:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When am I going to do when I'm sitting here on the couch, worrying and worrying and worrying?
[11:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How about instead I shut that phone off?
[11:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I, with open hands say, Lord, you can see her so much better where she's at on this road right now.
[11:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and trusting him to be the one, again, that's holding this whole situation together.
[11:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's the one holding them on the road.
[11:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I just, if I start getting anxious, I just turn it over to him a prayer and I just say, like, Lord, go before her, behind her, beside her, protect wherever she is at.
[11:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I need to, it's, I mean, it's not a one and done, but it has to be a constant like letting go and trusting him.
[11:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, he's holding it all together, the situation, and trusting that he loves and cares for our children more than we do.
[12:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I want to say I have peace in the facts that what will be will be, and truly are only, and a sense our only form of control is intercessionary prayer.
[12:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like maybe that is truly the only I have control.
[12:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: When I feel like I don't have control, any control, it's like, well, you're prayer.
[12:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think that's scary because if the outcome isn't what I want it to be.
[12:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Ooh, then you have to start of re- are you re-evaluating your faith?
[12:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It got failure, and it has this whole spiral that you can kind of have.
[12:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I do think I have a sense of peace of like, whatever will be will be.
[12:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and I think that the overwhelm is tied to the fact that we're trying to control outcomes.
[12:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when we are looking ahead to like, and we're looking towards the future, like how we want things to turn out, what how do we want this outcome to be?
[12:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we're here instead of staying present and where we're at here in the situation.
[12:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then trusting God, who's already in the future, like that becomes the part where we start getting overwhelmed.
[13:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because we're taking on more than what we're that we were supposed to be.
[13:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[13:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I feel like I've said this on the podcast, but it's been maybe a year or so now maybe a couple of years since I last set it, but I think also if you're more of a doomsday or pessimist, if you take whatever it is you're worrying about the very worst thing that can happen will I still be okay will I still be loved will I still be cared for.
[13:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It doesn't mean there's not going to be grief for suffering or pain in the midst of what will happen.
[13:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not even specifically speaking, like a car crash or something.
[13:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm talking about even if we lost our job or we lost a friend or we're endorsing, whatever it is, it's like what will still be true here, even if my world's also part.
[13:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think that is like relying and leaning into the promise that God is always good.
[13:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that when we start obsessing or getting anxious again about like a future thing that we do need to stop ourselves and ask, like, do I believe that God is good?
[14:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if I truly believe that He is good, then I know that whatever is ahead, like even if it feels bad to me, even if it is a terrible situation that brings grief,
[14:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I want to talk about this idea of false Edens.
[14:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And what are some of the common ones that you see women building today?
[14:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think just the comfort and control that I talk about in my book, how in Eden, even Adam and Eve were given control.
[14:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, before the fall,
[14:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: God gave them that purpose of stewarding.
[14:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That was a bit of control right there.
[14:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They were given the garden, they were given the animals, they were given the time that they were there.
[14:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the people, the places, the things that they were given to steward, that is good, that was before the fall, that was in Eden.
[15:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But then the fall has twisted that.
[15:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we've taken the steward ship that God is like here placing this in our hands, that these are the things I'm asking for you to steward,
[15:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to bring me glory and bring others closer to me.
[15:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But instead, we have taken whatever he's given us to stewward and we're like, what else can I take on?
[15:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, what else can I add to this?
[15:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, not only am I going to just
[15:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: take care and steward what's right here in front of me but I'm going to start managing and trying to manage the future and trying to hedge my bets and I'm so we've taken the stewardship and turned it into control and then not only so control could be our comfort but then we're also going to other things for comfort versus God and what he's given us so I mean we're just we dissociate by looking at screens we go to alcohol we there's nothing wrong with comfy pants
[15:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm a fan of sweatshirts and buddies.
[15:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, I do that when I get home, but there is a point where we go so much for comfort and we surround ourselves with all of this comfort that whenever we come up against something that is uncomfortable, we shy away, we don't want to do it.
[16:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But true growth, our spiritual growth happens when we get into the uncomfortable.
[16:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we stunt ourselves even in that.
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the fact that we're just trying to insulate ourselves with comfort.
[16:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we try to control all of that.
[16:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Those are those false eat-ins that we're building.
[16:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, but it feels so convincing.
[16:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It feels so convincing that we don't recognize that we're still overwhelmed.
[16:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We don't realize we're exhausted.
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes.
[16:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are we going to for comfort?
[16:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if the root is in things that are of this world, it's going to be a temporary piece.
[16:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if the root of that comfort is bringing us closer to our father, like those are the things that we need to pursue.
[16:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's the cultivation, the intentional movement that we're taking to pursue the comfort that he offers that is so good and so lasting.
[17:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so very true.
[17:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I also want to touch on rest because again, original design like having seven day on the seven days we rested and we've gotten so far from that and it's like no wonder we feel overwhelmed and anxious and worry some it's because we're not letting our nervous system calm down.
[17:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I would just love you for you to speak to rest and God's original design for us.
[17:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think at the root of rest because God didn't have to.
[17:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He wasn't tired.
[17:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, he did that to show us what is the better way.
[17:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when we choose to rest, we are communicating to God that we trust him.
[17:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because so much of our movement and our productivity,
[17:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, like we're not thinking it out loud, we're not communicating.
[17:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We don't even realize it.
[17:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But again, at the root of the productivity is believing that my worth is connected to how much I'm getting done to what I do versus who I am.
[18:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we are afraid that when we stop, we no longer become someone.
[18:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We no longer are worth anything.
[18:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if our work, the purpose that has given us, if the things that we've been given
[18:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: we are stewarding them and we're working for again for him and for his glory so that when we rest, we believe we're communicating and we're trusting him to keep working even when we are not because these things are all his.
[18:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he wants to he invites us into it because that brings even us more growth too.
[18:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But then there is a limit to us.
[18:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that is when we stop and with that's communicating.
[18:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, Lord, I've done my part.
[18:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm trusting you to carry this forward.
[18:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I am stopping and I am resting.
[19:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[19:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love for you to speak to, obviously on the show, I talk about minimalism and into charity.
[19:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I am curious to just hear your perspective on God being a God of order and not chaos and how our mindset or our mental health is connected to maybe the chaos that we create in our homes and in our environments and how we can start to let some of that go.
[19:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Love minimalist.
[19:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would love to just clear my brain feels like it thinks better when all of the surfaces are clean Let's just get rid of all the surface clutter, but that's not always reality
[19:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And especially if you've got kids, like the things that stack up, it's like it's a magnet, a clear counter is a magnet to all the things.
[19:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so instead of even though like a clear counter helps me mentally, there are times when we can't get there.
[19:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So instead of like having that be a hurdle like I cannot be
[20:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: less anxious or I cannot be calm until this counter is clear or until I set up all these expectations for myself instead of
[20:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, going back to the source of peace is I think we start having all these should's like a good mom should do this and that my how should look like this and when it looks like this, then I'll feel better.
[20:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And but the fact that like relationships and being in a family and living in a home, there is going to be some chaos.
[20:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we're needing to decide which part of those things can be addressed and which part of the things do we need to let go because it may
[20:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'd be kind of do this opposite thing that we're like, all of these things need to be managed and then I'll feel better.
[20:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But trying to manage all the things is what's overwhelming us to begin with.
[20:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think like prioritizing a little bit and understanding like what are the things that I can address like for me, just practically the kitchen.
[21:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just know that when I go to bed, the sink needs to be clean.
[21:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The dishwasher needs to be running and the coffee is set up for the morning.
[21:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I could turn around in the living room is still not super great in that kitchen counter on the other side.
[21:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The island is covered in things that need addressed, but I have this one area that I know has been, has been managed, and then like that's, I've had to start sending boundaries for myself, or I was, I was just forever cleaning up after people and feeling overwhelmed.
[21:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and I love that you speak to boundaries in the book as well, which we won't go into that today.
[21:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But kind of as we wrap up here, I'm sure that there are the majority of my listeners that are listening to this episode are likely faithful spiritual people or Christians.
[21:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: However, some of us do feel distant and I'm curious to know,
[21:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What's a gentle step that you would suggest they take in order to just connect back to God?
[22:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And especially if they're struggling in a season of worry and anxiety.
[22:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, yes, in my book, the very first attribute of Eden is communion with God.
[22:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And not not just acknowledging that he is God and that
[22:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: know, he's there, but actually communion is a deep relationship with someone.
[22:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They are with you.
[22:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They are beside you.
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You are connected and seeing our relationship with God is a much deeper level.
[22:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the fact that he's with us at all times.
[22:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so one practical thing that I do,
[22:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: is I set my watch for alarms.
[22:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have an alarm at 8 a.m. 12 p.m. and 4 p.m.
[22:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So three times a day, my alarm goes off.
[22:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when that happens, I just do a mental checklist, kind of a mental reset.
[22:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's checking to say, like, okay, because my 8 a.m.
[22:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've already been up for like three and a half hours.
[22:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, what have I started my day well?
[22:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Have I connected with God?
[23:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Have I prioritized what actually needs to get done today?
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or have I already derailed it off of this little thing over here that I think I need to manage right now?
[23:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I try to re-align myself.
[23:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I spend a little time in prayer.
[23:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'd actually do the Lord's prayer at all three of those times and really think through what I'm praying, not just like a wrote there it's done.
[23:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I actually think about the words.
[23:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so then again at noon, it's kind of like that reset of like, okay, halfway through the day, how is the morning?
[23:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Have I totally gone off the rails again where I'm just trying to manage and do my thing or am I actually walking at the pace of God?
[23:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then again, at 4 p.m. because that's kind of like a crazy hour when like, you know, school is out or you're trying to run kids to places or you're trying to be like, okay, what in the roles for dinner, like that could be such a chaotic time, but then to pause in the middle of it.
[23:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And again, like bring God back into that, like Lord, I need you in the middle of this, hold me together, hold this together.
[23:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and then moving on from there.
[23:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's just something like it doesn't take a ton of time, but it's just again bringing our mind back to the fact that the Lord is here and He's present with us.
[24:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And inviting like He's always there, but it's the fact that we're almost inviting our mind to remember that He's there with us.
[24:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's so good.
[24:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love checking in throughout the day.
[24:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I mean, I think that's prayer without ceasing, right?
[24:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's what God knows too.
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes.
[24:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, Nicole, Azure App things up.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'd love for you to share with listeners where they connect with you online or where they can grab a copy of your book.
[24:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes.
[24:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They can find me online at my website, livewithintent.org.
[24:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And on there, there's even a
[24:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: link to go to the book page where you can find my book and you also can get a pre-order bonus.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's available until June 2nd.
[24:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that will be going away pretty soon.
[24:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But at any time, they can get my book from my website, but they also can go to Amazon and get it there.
[24:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm also post-quite off-daughter Instagram.
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Generally, I'm posting encouragement and just some practical tips for God's Way for mental wellness.
[24:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I also share on sub-stack like once a week I send out an intentional devotional where I had given intentional thought, a prayer, an intentional moment.
[25:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so this is another place that they can connect with me and subscribe.
[25:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's perfect.
[25:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I knew we were like minded when it came to intentionality and just going to be honest back.
[25:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I love that.
[25:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Just as we got things up here, I always ask my guests to find out questions as they are leaving.
[25:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And the first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[25:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Beneficial resource.
[25:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have to think for a second of anything.
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so this one maybe feels a little silly because it doesn't help with time management or organizing anything I when you say resources that's what I think of first, but I actually love this app and it's called the Merlin.
[25:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Apple.
[25:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, is that the bird app?
[25:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes.
[25:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know.
[25:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know how many people know about this, but I think with the being spring, I'm even more aware of it, but I have it on my phone at all times.
[26:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I love this app because when I go for walks, I will, I don't listen to any sound or like music or podcast or anything.
[26:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just want to take go for a walk, but I take my phone merely so that if I happen to hear something I'm not familiar with, I'll open that app and listen for a bird.
[26:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I love that.
[26:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't believe I haven't downloaded that because birds are my probably my favorite animal.
[26:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I I'm yes right now I love yeah I also love birds for the fact like just a scripture how it just reminds us like that God cares for them so much more that he does care for us and I think like that's another part of when we're feeling anxious and we are thinking too far ahead we're outside ourselves going for a walk where you're just noticing what's around you.
[26:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I have this internal dialogue with the Lord about it, where I'm just like, this is the thing I noticed, God, this is so cool.
[26:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I like that was a bird I hadn't heard before.
[26:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or, oh, look, there's a cardinal.
[27:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just noticing all of these things like he has created.
[27:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's helping us realize and remember that he is holding everything together.
[27:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if he's holding this huge role together, so much sort, so can he hold us?
[27:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: 100%, absolutely.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Last question is, what is something you can't stop talking about?
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, right now in this season, it is my book, but I'm feeling like even as I'm going through the season with my book, I'm noticing more and more how people are talking about overwhelm and how overwhelmed people were.
[27:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When when I wrote this book, I knew I was overwhelmed, but I'm realizing how many more people are.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And there's something that I've seen more and more online, and I don't know if it's just my algorithm, but there's this talk about the mental
[27:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And mental load is very real.
[27:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I want to, what I'm wanting to speak into people is like acknowledging that the mental load is a real thing.
[27:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we also need to get at the root of why we have this mental load, and maybe it's because some of this that we have put on ourselves that actually belongs to someone else, or it's something that we started carrying that God never asked us to.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think just maybe going back through, like mental load, dump it all onto paper, and really take it to the Lord and ask him
[28:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, so good.
[28:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yes, I do think we're all overwhelmed.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think a huge piece of it is if we can just look to one day a week to take us to Abbots, I think we'd be surprised how much it can overhaul our business.
[28:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, when you do.
[28:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've started doing like I've always I grew up like with the commandment keep the Sabbath day holy so we didn't work we didn't even know our grass But there was more of like a rule that you had to follow so wasn't until it was actually before 2020 but 2020 really solidified it because we were home so much that I really
[28:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: again taking Sunday as the Sabbath day and I taken it seriously in the fact that I truly rested.
[29:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Then I went to church.
[29:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We spent time with friends with family.
[29:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We did things that that were feeding our soul the whole day and I didn't do anything that was making any kind of productivity.
[29:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I set things aside.
[29:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I turned off the screens and it's amazing how a complete day
[29:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: totally.
[29:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, Nicole, you gave us so much to think about.
[29:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I really love speaking to these topics that again, we don't realize how debilitating some of the stuff can be, but I think you gave us a lot of practical goals on how to move through it and work towards wholeness, enoughness, healing.
[29:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I really appreciate you.
[29:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Thanks for joining me.
[29:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, this has been so good.
[29:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks, Dan.
[29:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[29:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[29:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[30:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[30:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[30:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.

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