# Why Habit Consistency Looks Different for Women | Monica Packer (EP453)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 28 May 2026, 37 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/f043a41d-9a5f-4219-b84d-ec29434b824e/stream.mp3

What if consistency has less to do with perfection and more to do with learning how to keep showing up in sustainable ways? In this episode, I’m joined again by Monica Packer, habits and identity coach and host of About Progress, to discuss habits, procrastination, and why women often need a more flexible approach to personal growth. We talk about mental load, all-or-nothing thinking, and the importance of creating “baseline habits” for hard days. Monica also shares practical strategies for overcoming procrastination, building momentum through small actions, and creating habits that support the life and identity you actually want to cultivate. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Diane's Resource: Instagram Post • Previous Episode: Finally Get Control of Those Unwanted Habits: Understanding the Roots of Bad Habits (EP324) • Previous Episode: Small Shifts (& A More Effective) Approach to Bad Habits (EP255) • Monica's Resource: Libby • Monica Can't Stop Talking About: Project Hail Mary | Violette Lip Stain • Connect with Monica • Website • Instagram • Podcast • Book: Sticky Habits: A Woman's Guide to Reclaim Happiness, Ditch Perfectionism, and Create Habits that Last About Monica| Monica Packer is a recovering perfectionist who uncovered the truest model to lasting growth: it's progress made practical. As a writer, podcaster, and coach, she guides women to find sustainable growth by adopting progress over perfection. Monica’s popular podcast, About Progress is a top-rated show with millions of downloads. She has served thousands of women online as a certified habits and identity coach. Her book, Sticky Habits: A Woman’s Guide to Reclaim Happiness, Ditch Perfectionism, and Create Habits That Last, will be traditionally published Fall of 2026. Monica is a mom of 5, former middle school teacher, sourdough obsessor, and beginning gardener. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One of the things we fall into very easily with habit formation is that we fall for the prescriptions that are just in the ether about habits that we should have and the ways are supposed to look exercise is one of those I find predominantly for a woman that they write a way or like oh here are all the ways I'm supposed to exercise and this is only kind of exercise at counts and this is the only frequency that counts and I want you to really think of if habits are supposed to be helpers.
[0:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If there only purposes to support me, and if I really do want to exercise, how can I do that in a way that it actually does help me?
[0:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What would actually make that qualification?
[0:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So we can make your own on prescriptions, which is really, really important.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Instead of following the prescriptions of others, you get to make your own, and that will help have it be far stickier.
[0:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then if you're just following whatever you think you are supposed to do.
[0:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What if consistency has less to do with perfection and more to do with learning how to keep showing up in sustainable ways?
[0:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In today's episode, I'm joined again by Monica Packer, Habits an Identity Coach and host of about progress to discuss habits, procrastination, and why women often need a more flexible approach to personal growth.
[1:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We talk about the mental load, all are nothing thinking, and the importance of creating
[1:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you're looking to shift your habits this summer or if you'd like to start thinking about the habits you'd like to implement once the new school year begins, this episode is definitely for you.
[1:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But quickly before we get there, I want to share a minimalist resource with all of you.
[1:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know I keep sharing content from Instagram, but sometimes these insights are super powerful and worth sharing here.
[1:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I stumbled upon a recent Instagram reel regarding optimization culture and how it's killing us.
[1:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This man who I'll be sure to link in the show notes can explain it a little bit better than me, so here it is.
[1:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Optimization culture has gone too far, and it is spiritually killing us.
[1:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Steven Martin posted a video, and he had a few glasses of wine, and at ruin the next three days of his life, his sleep score was off, he ate poorly, and couldn't go to the gym.
[1:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Now, take it from me, a reformed optimizer.
[1:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I log my activity for three years straight, when I woke, when I drank, whether I exercised, I tell you this up at the end of the year, but for what?
[2:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: a moral superiority that I drank less or that I exercised five and a half days a week.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We needed 90 sleep score, 10,000 steps a day, a bed cool to 68 degrees, 6 miles on Strava, all for us to be better at sending emails or talking on a podcast.
[2:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We have gummies for sleep, supplements for stress, nicotine for focus.
[2:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: All done for the promise of a better, happier self.
[2:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We've been optimizing for years, yet somehow we are more isolated, more anxious and less happy.
[2:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So maybe what we need is three glasses of wine with our friends, a conversation of economically unproductive laps, and a slice of 2 AM.
[2:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Maybe we need to sleep in the dead, Mr. Jim, so that we can remember what it feels like to feel both dead and alive, because ultimately life is felt through contrast.
[2:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We have surrendered ourselves to the tyranny of measurement and forgotten what it means to live.
[2:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have surrendered ourselves to the tyranny of measurement and forgotten what it means to live.
[3:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: As someone who tracked her steps and tracked her calories and tracked her macros and her sleep at different points of my life, I get it.
[3:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's exciting to see those numbers in the green.
[3:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's validating to know that you're doing a quote unquote good job, but it what expense?
[3:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think some people can get so hyper-focused.
[3:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, this has been me in the past, so I don't mean to be critical.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But as he said, we have forgotten what it means to live.
[3:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A couple of drinks with friends, or donuts with our kids on the weekend, or savoring your favorite pizza at a friend's birthday.
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why do we automatically consider that in the red, or negative, that we were bad, that we had fallen off the wagon?
[3:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Some are along the way.
[3:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have forgotten that all of our best experience in life have nothing to do with optimization.
[3:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, nothing wrong with tracking for a season, but when it becomes your whole life and so much of your identity is rooted there, it might be time to take a step back and get perspective.
[3:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's one thing to prioritize your health and a whole different one when it becomes a tool to control.
[4:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'll be sure to link this man's post in the show notes.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, I thought this was such a powerful message that needed to be shared far and wide.
[4:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then lastly, we can't get to the episode without me reminding you if you have been listening to the Minimum's Bumps podcast for a while now but you have yet to leave a reading or a review.
[4:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are you doing?
[4:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It takes 30 seconds or less and we are eight reviews away from a thousand.
[4:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is one of the best ways you can support the show and it carries such a big impact.
[4:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So thank you for taking the time to do that.
[4:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And with all that said, it's time to get into the episode with Monica.
[4:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Monica, it's so great to chat again.
[4:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks for joining me for the third time, for the third time.
[4:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I know.
[4:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, thank you for having me for a third time.
[4:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's truly an honor to be back with your community.
[4:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know today we had talked about.
[4:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We will do a little bit of a refresher on habits.
[4:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I will be shuddling those previous episodes in the show notes.
[4:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're going to be talking about procrastination today.
[4:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, building habits.
[4:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But quickly before we get there, why don't you go ahead and reintroduce yourself to the listeners?
[5:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Hello to the amazing listeners here.
[5:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm Monica Packard.
[5:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm primarily known online as a podcaster with about progress I'm a habits that I didn't even coach and I live in Salt Lake with my five kids and husband and I'm mostly a state home mom actually This is a part-time work for me and so I feel like I'm very much
[5:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: in two worlds of knowing what it's like to try to live a life where you're trying to progress, but still actually have a ton of responsibilities that you can't just ignore.
[5:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Absolutely.
[5:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I will say, I want to say here at the beginning, I think it was the first conversation we had where you were talking about how you were living a certain way and then you had family pictures taken and we had been taken again a year later after you started shifting your habits
[5:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it wasn't necessarily about vanity, but you just had this realization of, oh, I looked tired.
[5:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I looked worn down like I wasn't my best self at that time.
[6:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm not kidding.
[6:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That has stuck with me ever since we had that conversation.
[6:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like I've been prioritizing sleep more.
[6:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm prioritizing all of these many habits, I guess.
[6:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it was a turning point for me.
[6:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So thank you.
[6:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: that's huge.
[6:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know it's one of those things I kind of hate that story but it's so true and real that vanity kind of pushed me to realize oh I am really not taking care of myself and it's it's so deep it's visible and I had to start yeah yeah absolutely so you say that there is a number one reason why women must do habits differently I believe we did slightly cover this in the past but let's start there why must we do our habits differently how are we
[6:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sure, well, I think it always helps to zoom out a little bit before we talk about that specifically because the self-help world is largely a very toxic positivity maximum-bound place.
[6:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if you actually look at who leads this demographic, I guess you could say online, it's predominantly men.
[7:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And there's nothing wrong with them like there's
[7:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's great men out there.
[7:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They have great concepts and teachings.
[7:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But what they fail to do in our teachings is acknowledge that women's lives are different from men's lives.
[7:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is a fact.
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not just an anecdotal.
[7:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh, my life is different than my husband's in my personal life.
[7:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This has been a decades-long topic of research by sociologists, economists, and I mean, every field you can think of, and it's invisible labor.
[7:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Let me say what invisible labor is.
[7:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Actually, invisible labor is, labor that is often unseen, underpaid, or undervalued, or all of those of, you know, all three.
[7:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's work that is very important, it's extremely valuable.
[7:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In fact, if it weren't happening, all of our economies across a world would come to a grinding
[7:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That happened in Iceland actually in the 70s and when women were like nope, we're not doing this for a whole day, and it's an it's important work, but it's also makes our life a lot different than the men's in our lives and not because they're again bad men is just
[8:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: effect.
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this has, you know, changed over time a bit, but still there's a marked difference between what men and women do at the home primarily with caretaking work.
[8:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And also at work, ask who does your work parties predominantly, who makes sure the kitchen is stocked and, you know, birthdays are accounted for and celebrated and all that stuff.
[8:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But caretaking work at home, it's also the mental load that goes with that.
[8:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's an important part of it.
[8:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not just what you see on the outside.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But
[8:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: what they can account for is that women in the U.S. alone do double the amount at home that men do and again we're not saying well men are the worst like we're here to just bash them and have like an angry pity party it's more to just acknowledge what we see in the self-help world is taught as gendered neutral and we simply don't have the same amount of time, energy, and support as our male counterparts and that means we have to do habits differently.
[9:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think for a lot of people, they want to change their habits.
[9:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They've read a ton of habits or they have read some type of self-help book in the past, again, a lot of them written by men, but they're struggling to find consistency.
[9:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't know if that due to, as you said, the invisible labor and the things that we're managing, but I'd love for you to speak to how we can stay consistent in the various seasons of life or the things that we're all juggling.
[9:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so, with habit formation in particular, like we don't throw the baby out with a bath water, just because we're like women at lives are different.
[9:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We're not just going to throw away all the principles that were taught by men or even study by men, but we have to apply them differently.
[9:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So habits still live and die by consistency.
[9:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Consistency really matters.
[9:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: but not in the way that we often so easily come to mind or define it.
[9:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think a lot of us think of consistency as perfect rigidity.
[9:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You do the exact same habit and the exact same way day after day.
[10:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And with that standard, a lot of women will find it impossible to uphold in that kind of way.
[10:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: we get interrupted a lot more because of invisible labor.
[10:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Our energy is not as dependent.
[10:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that's also true for those who are our ministry, right?
[10:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like hormones alone account for a lot of our energy levels.
[10:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So instead of defining consistency in this rigid way, consistency is doing your best, most of the time, over time.
[10:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And your best is allowed to change.
[10:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and over time is the big target here.
[10:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: With consistency, your whole goal is more times than not.
[10:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not, I did that perfectly in the exact same way.
[10:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And for women, one of the ways that we are consistent is that we actually are more flexible.
[10:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Flexibility is what makes consistency possible.
[10:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They are complementary, not contradictory principles.
[10:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the way we do that with habits and I'm giving you the natural version here is instead of insisting on the same habit,
[11:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: in the same way, day after day.
[11:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We have a different version of it called the baseline.
[11:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's the smallest and simplest version of our ideal, the kind that we could do on our list and ideal days, on our worst of days.
[11:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And when we have that baseline, that's built in flexibility that helps us be able to do the same habit and get the support we need from it, but in a different way for that day, or even for that particular season, both figurative and literal.
[11:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that will give us the consistency we need.
[11:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: in order to feel supported.
[11:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because at the end of the day, habits whole purpose is to be helpers, to help us feel like ourselves, to be like ourselves, to show up as ourselves.
[11:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[11:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think so many women struggle, oh, it's my men struggle with the all or nothing mindset.
[11:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's on or off.
[11:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you're saying that it's doing your best most of the time over time.
[11:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It defeats that all or nothing mentality because you are, I don't want to say mess up, but you are going to just be human and have something come up.
[12:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I guess
[12:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What would you say to the listeners that do have that arm, nothing mindset, you've spoken a little bit to it.
[12:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think that is just so much of a sticking point for a lot of people nowadays.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, this is another one of these maximums for the self-help industry about, I mean, they don't really say it, but it's all about perfection.
[12:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, and just like motivation and grit and just decide, today's your day, and you're gonna do it, and you wake up and you're the only one in charge of your life, and you determine it, and you've lost so much that couldn't be helpful or inspiring, you know, when you have baseball season, and you're a one-car family.
[12:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: speaking from experience, things get a little nutty or when you're postpartum or when you're having a depressive episode, which can happen too, or when you just have kids at home and they're just interrupting you all the time.
[13:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So those who are scared of it, I would say, how is the all-or-nothing model working for you?
[13:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and I think if people really took stock of it and this is coming from someone who is was a hell-bent perfectionist for much of her life.
[13:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if they really took stock, I think they would see that either they are paying a price for their perfectionism, that all are nothing model, or they are on the sidelines.
[13:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: they're waiting, they're waiting for the right time, they're right amount of energy, the right season.
[13:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we need help now, we need support right now.
[13:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So take an honest look at that and decide, like, actually does this help?
[13:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah.
[13:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I want to talk about procrastination and what is really going on beneath the surface when we're struggling with procrastinating?
[13:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, I think it has a lot in common with perfectionists and I think a lot of people who tend to procrastinate often wouldn't quantify themselves as a perfectionist because I think no, I look at me, I'm just like delaying things or avoiding things or getting other things done because there's productive procrastination for sure.
[14:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you know, perfectionism is a spectrum.
[14:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's still based on not all or nothing model.
[14:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And a lot of people who wouldn't describe themselves as perfectionists actually are because they're on that nothing side of the pendulum swing maybe they paid a price that was too steep before and and they've gone to the other end or maybe they tended to live in that fear zone of knowing like I'm going to fail I'm going to mess up it's not going to be good so if we talk about procrastination specifically and how that relates to both habits and perfectionism there's so many crossovers and I would just start by first saying if we're going to lead with compassion because perfectionists are very shame driven.
[14:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The compassionate view and the true view of procrastination is that it's a human tendency.
[14:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's something we all do.
[14:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Even the most evolved, informed, professional, expert person struggles with this tendency from time to time in different ways.
[15:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And to different extents and intensity and intensities.
[15:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So let's just start with owning this as a human tendency.
[15:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We as humans often have a bad day or life is too much and we're trying to just cope with life in front of us and procrastination is one of those ways that we do that.
[15:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Procassination is an avoidant behavior.
[15:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We are either waiting for the motivation to come up so we're avoiding the feelings that we're feeling in the meantime and just waiting for that motivation and the desire to come along.
[15:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But most often we are avoiding the emotions we are
[15:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: or the goal, or the dream that we want to pursue.
[15:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So think about what those emotions may be.
[15:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I know for me, when I think of something simple like a task, like one of the tasks I always know, I want to do a need to do as scrapbooky, but I tend to procrastinate it until it really builds up.
[16:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if I look at that, I know what actually, what I'm avoiding is not the actual task.
[16:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm avoiding the overwhelm.
[16:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I associate with that, or the stress.
[16:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: but it could also go way deeper.
[16:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like if you've been avoiding a goal, like maybe going back to school and getting neck deep in all those applications, you are thinking of everything that goes with those tasks and you are maybe thinking about, I'm gonna fail.
[16:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm not gonna get in.
[16:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You're having a lot of that fear.
[16:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: drive the procrastination.
[16:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So you might find yourself numbing out as a way of procrastinating or doing a whole lot of other things like I could be organizing the whole pantry instead of going through the papers I need to or writing that email or making that call to insurance.
[16:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because I have, you know, kids' special needs that have required me to talk to insurance quite a lot over the years.
[16:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's a task I avoid.
[16:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So think about what emotions I may actually avoid.
[16:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What am I afraid of?
[16:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And also how am I waiting for the motivation to come and how is that actually making it so it doesn't come because motivation is really hard thing to rely on to make us do the things we want to do.
[17:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are there habit shifts we can implement that will help us with procrastination?
[17:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would say there are principles that cross over with habit for patiently, so the way I teach them.
[17:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think the first here is we talked about the baseline actually.
[17:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Okay, the small, simple way to do a habit.
[17:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If we carry on that same principle and we're thinking about a task or a big project, maybe going back to school.
[17:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: as another one week we can come back to you.
[17:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So let's imagine you're thinking about going back to school and you are focused on the ending and all the work and the many many tasks and hours that go into officially applying to school.
[17:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When you're focused on the ending, it is really hard to start because it's just the share amount of tasks in front of you and the motivation is going to flee like right away.
[17:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like you may have felt motivated on January 1st, but by February 1st, that motivation is going to be gone because now the reality is sitting in what that's all going to entail.
[18:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I had that with, I used to teach piano on this cute little seven-year-old came for her first lesson and she was just bubbling over with excitement and motivation.
[18:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: we had a couple great lessons but by the third or fourth lesson I mean she came and in the middle of the lesson she slammed her little fingers against the keyboard and broke into sobs and like what's wrong Katie and she was like it's not fun anymore you know so she the motivation was gone even though it had been there so strongly we experienced that with these tasks so what I would encourage people to do instead of focusing on the ending focus on the starting
[18:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the way you can do that is to do something to start.
[18:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's where the baseline comes in.
[18:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Figure out the first step that you need to do.
[18:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maybe in applying, it's opening up a couple programs that are very interested in and just trying to Google what programs you'd even be interested in and having a couple tabs and your computers at different programs that you want to look into more.
[19:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maybe it's calling a friend that you know did this program in the past and be like hey can I talk to you about the program?
[19:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I often would say go with the easiest first step and that gets a ball rolling.
[19:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I had a guest on my show years ago, her name is Gabrielle Blair, her family moved to France years ago.
[19:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She is six kids, so it's like a big ordeal to like move to a foreign country, right?
[19:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so when she looked at the ending, it was just
[19:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: beyond her comprehension of how many things would go into that move, including like selling their house, and packing up their bonding, and selling things, and getting it across waters, like international waters, all of that.
[19:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And she said the actual thing she did to get the whole ball rolling on this was to look up the place where they needed to get their passports.
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was the first step.
[19:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is actually what creates motivation instead of waiting for motivation actually we can create momentum and that can feel motivating as you get that ball rolling.
[19:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just kind of those laws of physics, a ball in motion stays in motion and so do something to start and by focusing on the start and even the smallest simplest way to start, you're going to get that momentum going and the motivation will come along and if it doesn't
[20:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: All right, I really want to make sure that we cover procrastination in all of its many facets.
[20:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you have any other words of wisdom to offer listeners, because again, I know that this has been such a sticking point for me.
[20:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And as you're speaking, I was kind of trying to think about why it is that I procrastinate.
[20:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think for me, it has always been,
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Even in college when I wrote a paper the day or two before I didn't want to start it because I think I didn't want to be I didn't want to face that I might not know how and to face my own and suficiencies or lack of knowledge and so that made me It didn't make me feel great.
[20:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, I'm just kind of practicing as we're having this conversation, but yes,
[20:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: any other words of wisdom to share regarding procrastination or super helpful.
[21:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Of course, I mean, and this is something I can talk about a lot of things that really to perfectionism for hours, but let's give you two more practical tips.
[21:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The first I would say is when you are then embarking on that first task, or you're bringing down a bigger task to or project or goal dream into smaller tasks and you're trying to start, set limits.
[21:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: either a time limit so a short time limit or a number like a you try to limit the amount of minutes you want to put to something or actually that's the same thing maybe even that amount of tasks that you're going to do so let's say the papers like a lot of people have this huge stack of papers they have to go through on the counter right we have or or wherever we have in our mud room or garage so a way to apply that to set limits is you can either say I'm just going to go through the papers for ten minutes
[21:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm just going to work on the paper for 10 minutes.
[21:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's a time limit.
[21:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or you can say, I'm going to go through 20 papers.
[21:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's the number limit.
[21:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Having that way of limiting it actually helps you do something to start.
[22:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that's a good practical tip.
[22:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And also what the baseline tip as well.
[22:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then the third thing I would do is to try to make the task enjoyable either while you're doing the task right after.
[22:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is something that we do a lot with habit
[22:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the way I like to do this with procrastination is you pair a blog task, like setting it just feels like that with that dread or blah, like I don't want to do this, like I don't, I'm not motivated at all to do this task.
[22:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You pair a blog task with a yay feeling.
[22:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So in the moment you can blast that podcast or that book or even that show that you can always have in the background and then you know how to like sit and watch it.
[22:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I like to suck on a piece of dark chocolate if it's something I really hate to do.
[22:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If I'm on hold with insurance forever for example, just pop that piece of dark chocolate and it gets to me through it.
[22:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or you can also have a reward after and it can be like a literal reward that you give yourself whether it's I get to go and walk outside after this or I get to take myself out to lunch or call a friend you get to decide.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But that will trick your brain into being willing to do the
[23:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: a lot of habit formation is brain hacking.
[23:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We're working with a really stubborn brain that has all these neural pathways that are pretty set.
[23:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if we're trying to change our habits or to add a new one, we have to trick our brain.
[23:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And one of the ways we can do that through behavior design is to make it feel a lot better than our brains thinks it's gonna feel.
[23:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Great tips.
[23:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I mean, sometimes for me, it's not necessarily one task.
[23:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say at this point, it's kind of just like, oh, looking at my schedule for the week,
[23:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I feel like if I can have something on Friday evening or Saturday morning to look forward to, it's like I'm gonna lean into the difficult now and the tasks that must be done.
[23:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I know that I get that reward of a friend, coffee date or a drink sale, or even just like time with my husband, that is just a really nice thing to look forward to.
[24:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, so you're living this out and that's what I think a lot of people will notice like, oh, I actually do this for this type of thing.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so you can apply that copy and paste to another task that you tend to avoid or even that bigger life goal that you may be avoiding and wanting to look into.
[24:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Actually, I'll just give you a quick example.
[24:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's happened quite recently.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I did theater all through high school.
[24:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I tried out for this really big musical theater group at
[24:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and I mean, it was like, oh, I'm bad at this and then I just quit.
[24:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now my kids are starting to get in their teens and twins.
[24:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I still have a three year old too, but we kind of have a spread.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I've been trying to get my kids into theater.
[24:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's a great place to make friends and they tend to be pretty nice kids.
[24:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And, you know, not doing bad things in general, at least where we've been.
[24:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And as I've been doing that, I've been thinking, for years, I thought, oh, I wish I could do that still, or I wish I
[24:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I have been on so many lists for local theaters and their auditions, I've even applied to audition and then canceled last minute countless times, you know, and then just earlier last week, there was an audition deadline for a local community play.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I was like, okay, my almost a turn on, let's hurry and record your video because it's doing like two hours because I didn't even know the deadline was coming up.
[25:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I did that for another kid and
[25:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm just going to record it too.
[25:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I just did something to start.
[25:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I just put the phone camera up.
[25:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I didn't even think twice.
[25:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I just tried to record something bad.
[25:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, and that was a kind of limit.
[25:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I had for myself, like, just see how it feels.
[25:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I ended up submitting it.
[25:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I got a call.
[25:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this weekend, I was working on my callback for this lead middle-aged woman in filler on the roof.
[25:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm like, I can play a weathered mom.
[25:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I can play a weathered mom really well because that's my life.
[25:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I don't know how it will turn out.
[25:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I may not make it, but I'm just really proud of myself.
[25:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: For finally,
[25:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: doing the thing that I have said I wanted to do.
[25:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And even if I don't get the role, I'm sure I'll be in the background somewhere.
[25:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it'll be fun to do that with my kids.
[26:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'll finally say, after 22 years, I'm finally doing something that I wanted to do.
[26:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that feels really good.
[26:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, that's such a great story.
[26:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I love that.
[26:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[26:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, times going to pass regardless so why not go for the things that we want, right?
[26:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, exactly.
[26:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I, you know, face a lot of my inner perfectionist too, even in doing that and now on the call back, too.
[26:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But it's kind of been funded challenging in a different way, because before when it was challenged, I just quit.
[26:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now I'm saying you're allowed to be not great at this.
[26:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So let's do what a shot.
[26:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: absolutely.
[26:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we can't wrap up without talking about your book, you have a book coming out in the fall, sticky habits, a woman's guide to reclaim happiness, ditch perfectionism, and create habits that last.
[26:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would love to as we wrap up talk about the proven method you have to make any habits sticky, just a few words of wisdom here to wrap up with.
[26:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, again, I could talk about this for hours, given, in fact, this is our third conversation.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think you know that, too.
[27:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But what I'll say is a lot of it is what we've talked about.
[27:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But there's obviously going to be so much more in the book like multiple hundreds of pages in there.
[27:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if we're going to give you a nutshell today, I would start with an order to make a habit sticky.
[27:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There needs to be a deeper purpose to your habit.
[27:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One of the things we fall into very easily with habit formation is that we fall for the prescriptions that are just in the ether about habits that we should have and the ways are supposed to look exercise is one of those I find predominantly for a woman that they write a way or like, oh here are all the ways I'm supposed to exercise and this is the only kind of exercise at counts and this is the only frequency that counts and I want you to really think of if habits are supposed to be helpers, if they're only purposes to support me,
[27:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if I really do want to exercise, how can I do that in a way that it actually does help me?
[27:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What would actually meet that qualification?
[27:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So we can make your own, your own prescriptions, which is really, really important.
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Instead of following the prescriptions of others to get to make your own, and that will help have it be far stickier than if you're just following whatever you think you are supposed to do.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then the second way I would say that can help make a habit sticky is to actually have a habit plan before you even start.
[28:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: A habit plan is not too complicated.
[28:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You start with the ideal version.
[28:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So let's say let's go to exercise example.
[28:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Let's say the women decides, you know, exercise really would support me.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But if I know I get to decide, what would actually help me during this season, maybe they're going through a really tough season right now.
[28:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: They think I just want to go on a walk three days a week.
[28:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I want to go on a walk around my neighborhood because that would help me have the clarity I need.
[28:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would help me process my thoughts.
[28:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It would give me time and peace.
[28:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's the way I want to exercise.
[28:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm not going to do hard 70, whatever you're that's called how 70 hard.
[28:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's not my season right now.
[28:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Maybe it would be a season for later.
[28:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But she decides that.
[28:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So now she has the ideal version of mine.
[28:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: For even the season, three days a week, maybe 30 minute walk.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And for some person, that may sound like,
[29:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: too much and another person that may be like way too little, but how about it's our subjective too, but that's her ideal version right now.
[29:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: To make it have a plan now, she needs to come up with the baseline version, and that's what we talked about, the smallest and simplest version of that.
[29:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So let's say she's not feeling well, or she has a meeting, she has to go to a PTA meeting or a game that she has to help like help with, or whatever it may be.
[29:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What could she do on that kind of day where the time is really limited or her energy is
[29:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or I can go on a walker on the block or up and down my block.
[29:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it has to be that kind of small and simple.
[29:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And because of that, she has a baseline now.
[29:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then with that, she needs to create an actual habit plan.
[29:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is where we can get into the weeds with this, but I would simply say it's habit stacking.
[29:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She needs to attach the new habit to an already existing one.
[29:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I call that the one then pairing.
[29:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So maybe she knows she's always going to walk after she finishes cleaning the kitchen after dinner.
[30:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And maybe her husband's home, he's going to watch a kid.
[30:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: She's going to go on that walk.
[30:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And she always knows she's done with cleaning the kitchen up after dinner because she starts the dishwasher.
[30:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that's her one.
[30:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When I start the dishwasher, then I'll go for my walk.
[30:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And on a baseline day, or anything, a between it could be her five minute walk or her walk around the block.
[30:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And the last part here is really important and this is where we go into brain hacking.
[30:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's a third step to this habit plan.
[30:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So we have the when, we have the then.
[30:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When is the old habit, then is the new habit?
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We also haven't after.
[30:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is where we train our brains to make a real, a habit really sticky by inserting all the feel good chemicals we can.
[30:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We talked about that with the hack for procrastination to make it feel good.
[30:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's the same thing.
[30:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can make the habit of self-filled good by maybe she's listening to her favorite true crime podcast or blasting the the backstreet boys on her AirPods or maybe after she gives herself a high five or she gets to watch her favorite show or it can be as simple as her telling herself I did it.
[31:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what a so awesome as a science shows, even if you can only say something to yourself like, good job, and give yourself like a high fiverr, kind of create that emotion for yourself.
[31:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's as good as a literal reward.
[31:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And when you do that, you're not just making this habit really sticky.
[31:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Another part of this is you are creating the identity of someone who does the habit, too.
[31:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so a lot of my clients in the past have done a simple maximum in it, that's like me.
[31:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This comes from Lani Bashimi, and he's an Olympic coach, and he does how he trained his athletes to say, that's like me every time they didn't anything right, anything right.
[31:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And a mindset is a big part of it.
[31:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So when you are done walking, because say, that's like me, I did it.
[31:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Or I keep promises to myself, like that's like me.
[31:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I follow through.
[31:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that's the A part after.
[31:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that WTA is going to be your babbap plan, and that's how you start a habit, and that's how you make it sticky, too.
[31:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, just reinforcing that.
[31:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, yeah, that's really good.
[31:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't think you shared that last time.
[32:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So thanks for, yeah, yeah.
[32:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, for listeners that want to grab a copy of your book or connect with you online to dive deeper and depression, have it stacking, habits, and general, where can they connect with you?
[32:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, they're interested in the book.
[32:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We have some pre-order bonuses going on right now.
[32:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's officially publishing September 8th, but right now they can pre-order the book.
[32:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what's great about that is several places honors the lowest price on Pub Day, which is really nice.
[32:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So just go to stickyhabitsbook.com, and you'll see it there, and you'll also see the bonuses.
[32:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then if you want to follow along with me, listen first, I'm a podcast or primarily, so come and listen to ways we practically work on progress, everything we share is deep and practical at about progress, just go to any, you know, search about progress and I'm also an Instagram by that same monochrome.
[32:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes.
[32:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I absolutely recommend your podcast and all of your work.
[32:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I said, those podcasts episodes we did in the past were really incredibly helpful to me personally.
[32:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I will be sure to link those as they said in the show notes.
[33:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But just quickly as we wrap things up here, I ask my guests to wrap it fire questions.
[33:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know if you remember this from last time.
[33:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just to get to know you a little bit better.
[33:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[33:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: a beneficial resource for me.
[33:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this actually is a little bit more surface level.
[33:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just having the Libby app on my phone.
[33:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: One of the biggest ways that I'm able to.
[33:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Prioritized tasks I hate, and I tend to press Hasnate like putting away the laundry, as I listen to a lot of audio books.
[33:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So if someone doesn't know how to get your library books on your phone for free, you can read books on your Kindle with Libby, and you can listen to books.
[33:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's such a fantastic resource.
[33:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's helping me in so many ways, and it's also brought back a big part of my life, which is for years I was a bookworm, and then I had kids and I stopped reading for back.
[33:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: 10 years.
[33:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So now I read a ton thanks to audio books and now more physical books like you see I have a little challenge for myself to do that more too.
[33:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So yeah, we'll be yeah.
[34:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I drive quite a bit We moved out of Columbus like 30 minutes out, but I'm driving to the city you pretty often and to me I know people are like, why do you waste all this time driving and I'm like that's actually my downtime when I have Our books and then it home.
[34:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm usually trying to be somewhat productive.
[34:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm like, yeah, I look forward to my book
[34:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: love that.
[34:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Alright, my final question is what is something that you can't stop talking about?
[34:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, gosh, there's, there's, this game is all more practical stuff, but I really loved Hill Mary.
[34:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Project Hill Mary.
[34:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I just been thinking about it constantly since reading that book, and then I haven't gone to the movie yet.
[34:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I, my, I was sent to go on Friday night, but my kids went with my husband instead for a whole, like, another kid was sick.
[34:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I had to stay back.
[34:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, Project Hill Mary was really, really good, but also, if I, I like lipstick.
[34:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there's this company called, and I always say it wrong because it's French.
[34:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think it's Biele or Violet.
[35:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: However, I...
[35:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: V-I-O-L-E-T-T-E is how it's spelled, and they kind of have these lip glosses that leave a stain on your lips, or they have like this matte one that kind of stays all day.
[35:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I really, I really love those, and I keep passing them on to all my friends.
[35:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So those are two, again, more superficial takes, but you also know I'm here for the deep stuff, too.
[35:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That I can't, yeah, those things?
[35:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah.
[35:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes.
[35:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, the whole episode was insightful and intellectual.
[35:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I love to just kind of get to pick people's brains here.
[35:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's not actually a sightseeing right now.
[35:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yes, absolutely.
[35:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, you are always welcome back on the show to share whatever you have going on, whatever you have been bringing to your audience as well.
[35:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So thank you so much and good luck with this book clonch.
[35:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know it's going to be really successful.
[35:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Thank you for your support.
[35:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It has meant so much to have it.
[35:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'm so anxious for this book to come out in the world.
[35:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's been literally years in the making.
[35:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I really appreciate your support.
[36:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Thank you.
[36:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What did you think of the episode?
[36:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[36:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[36:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[36:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with us.

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