# No More Mediocre: A Call to Reimagine Our Relationships | Laura Danger (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 15 Jul 2026, 37 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/4a0ef094-fbba-48f1-ab2c-0e8017b0d68b/stream.mp3

Why do so many moms still feel like they're carrying the weight of the household - even in relationships that strive to be equal? In this episode, Diane sits down with licensed educator and author Laura Danger to unpack the invisible labor that keeps so many families overwhelmed. From managing schedules and anticipating everyone's needs to carrying the mental and emotional load of a household, Laura explains why domestic inequality persists - even in modern, well-intentioned partnerships. Drawing from her upcoming book, No More Mediocre, Laura challenges common assumptions about fairness at home and offers practical ways couples can create healthier, more sustainable partnerships. Together, they discuss why care work is real work, how hidden relationship dynamics fuel resentment, and what it looks like to move from keeping score to sharing responsibility. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Connect with Laura • Website • Instagram • TikTok • Book: No More Mediocre: A Call to Reimagine Our Relationships and Demand More About Laura | Laura Danger is a licensed educator, experienced facilitator, and domestic equity advocate known for her clear-eyed take on household labor, care work, and relationship dynamics. With over a decade in education and a background in special education, she brings a practical, inclusive approach to rebalancing the invisible load at home. As the creator behind thatdarnchat and co-host of the podcast Time to Lean, Laura is a trusted voice for millions navigating modern partnerships, parenting, and burnout. She has worked closely with the Fair Play team and has been featured in HuffPost, InStyle, Business Insider, Wondermind, and more for her expertise on weaponized incompetence and inequity in relationships. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For those of you that are new around here, I released bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if this content is something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episodes that drop this week or join me back here next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's this weird sphere that happens and I call it sitcom syndrome because it's kind of this laugh track or this internal voice that tells you
[0:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: you're making a big deal out of nothing.
[0:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is fine.
[0:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Why are you stressed about it?
[0:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You have no humor.
[0:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's not that serious.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it is domestic inequity, the sort of fights that we have about these things has real costs to our wellbeing, our relationships, it's not funny.
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Why does so many moms still feel like they're carrying the weight of the household, even in relationships that strive to be equal?
[0:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's episode, I sit down with licensed educator and author, Laura Danger, to unpack the invisible labor that keeps so many families overwhelmed.
[1:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Drawing from her book, no more mediocre, Laura challenges common assumptions about fairness at home and offers practical ways that couples can create healthier, more sustainable relationships.
[1:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Together we discuss why care work is real work, how hidden relationship dynamics, fuel, resentment, and what it looks like to move from keeping score to sharing responsibility.
[1:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But quickly before we get there, if you have yet to leave a rating and review for the minimalist mom's podcast, I ask you to hit five stars, share your favorite episode, who your favorite guest has been.
[1:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is one of the best ways you can continue to support the show, so thank you, thank you.
[1:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And with that, let's get into this bonus episode with my
[1:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm super excited to talk to you today because we touch based on Instagram, and then we didn't realize we had already touched based on email, or maybe your publicist, or someone had touched based.
[2:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I was so excited to, I just, you be aligned, I guess.
[2:04] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, no, same.
[2:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm really excited to chat.
[2:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[2:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, Laura, before we get into it, why don't you go ahead, introduce yourself to listeners.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have this new book coming out.
[2:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's called no more mediocre.
[2:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A call to reimagine our relationships and demand more.
[2:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Awesome.
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Okay.
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I am Lord Angel.
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am a licensed educator.
[2:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I am an author of, as you said, no more mediocre.
[2:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I am a domestic equity expert.
[2:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think people would know me best as the person on TikTok who popularized the term weaponized incompetence.
[2:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that's, that's me.
[2:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, yes, yes, well, maybe let's start here because I'm not on TikTok and I didn't know that so weaponized say it again weaponized in competence yes weaponized incompetence.
[2:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What does that mean?
[2:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So weaponizing competence is essentially when someone fails on purpose or sabotages or does a bad job and then.
[3:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: has the other people in their lives compensate for them, or sometimes they throw a fit, sometimes they stomp their feet or give the silent treatment.
[3:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Basically, it is this behavior where your failure gets you out of being held accountable or gets you out of a responsibility.
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'm sure like it's a it's a it's something that is made fun of in popular media like sitcoms but it's also just kind of something that many of us have experienced whether it's at work or at home once you hear the term you like oh no I know what that is yes I'm familiar I I've definitely know people in my life that do such things I'm sure that I've done that at some point maybe maybe
[3:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: maybe not.
[4:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we're going to be talking about again, no more mediocre.
[4:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess we'll start here.
[4:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why did you start talking about relationships?
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, why did you feel like this was a book that you wanted to put out?
[4:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So my personal story mirrors a lot of people's story.
[4:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm a millennial mom.
[4:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When we went into the lockdowns in 2020, I had a three year old and a nine month old,
[4:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: My husband and I were both working full time and I was on social media just kind of desperate for connection with other people.
[4:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And at the same time, my life is kind of falling apart.
[4:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm so stressed out.
[4:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's no social safety net, no support happening.
[4:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You know, our child care has gone.
[4:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'm struggling.
[4:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The people in my life are struggling.
[4:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I'm seeing on my feed, these jokes.
[4:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: like these ha-ha-ha-ha-ha isn't it so funny that Mom is stressed out and Mom has COVID and is holding the baby while dad is like laid up in the other room and these jokes about inequity and imbalance and at the time in my personal life it was something I was really focused on, my partner and I were dealing with and the shift was happening and it still wasn't there
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But I saw my friends being pushed out of the workforce.
[5:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I felt even with the balance that was coming into my relationship.
[5:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like I was about to lose my sort of life I wanted or expected.
[5:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I just got really, I got mad.
[5:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I started talking about what I was going through.
[5:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I started talking about the low expectations and how it's joked about the culture around it.
[5:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it sort of snowballed from there.
[5:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I just kept on talking and really realized that this was something so many people felt very strongly about and had been brushed off for so long.
[6:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that's sort of where the idea of this book came from, because I had talked about it online and the internet only goes so far.
[6:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like you said, if you haven't heard of these terms, if because you're not on TikTok, then there's a gap in knowledge.
[6:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense.
[6:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want to go back to something you said.
[6:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you said that people were making jokes at the expense of something that was real going on in the home and in chapter two of your book, you call it sitcom syndrome, the hidden harms of laughing at it off.
[6:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'll let you maybe summarize that chapter, but also point out something that we may be missing when we choose to laugh it off and not notice, again, what may be actually going on.
[6:48] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, well, okay.
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So this is a loaded chapter.
[6:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm sure we've all seen it before the like really exaggerated satire.
[6:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I mean, I should use air quotes like the satire of like dad goes and hides in the bathroom for 45 minutes while mom has to get the kids packed up and out the door.
[7:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and it's like the caption will be like men, am I right, hash tag, couples, hash tag, funny, and it's like very clearly, it's supposed to be silly.
[7:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And to me, that's just kind of annoying.
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's just kind of a cheap joke that, you know, they were making that same joke in the
[7:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think more insidious stuff, and in fact, there's something right now that's trending called like cheater busters, it's a weird thing that's going on where people will make content that looks very candid and looks like, oh, I just captured this argument between my spouse and I, like, were one person's going, you don't do anything around the house, you
[8:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: and the other got like the other partner is like laughing and being, what's the big deal?
[8:07] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it kind, it looks eerily like a real clip.
[8:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if you've ever, all of us, I don't know a single person who has not argued about the dishes or the laundry.
[8:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We've all been there.
[8:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is a society full of burnout.
[8:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like we're stressed, so even if you think it's pretty balanced at home, you've argued about it.
[8:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So these videos that look really real get fed to us on our feeds in a super casual way where what we're consuming is it's seen as acceptable.
[8:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Generally, people aren't putting abuse online as something for us to consume.
[8:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's, you know, if somebody is putting a video on of their relationship that they are still in, we can presume that they think that this isn't okay way to be.
[9:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that, I think, is kind of in the same bucket of this is acceptable.
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is fine.
[9:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Maybe it's not great.
[9:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can laugh it off or we can, you know, just it's not that serious.
[9:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm just airing it out.
[9:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There is this weird sphere that happens.
[9:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I call it sitcom syndrome because it's kind of this laugh track or this internal voice that tells you
[9:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: you're making a big deal out of nothing.
[9:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is fine, why are you stressed about it?
[9:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You have no humor, it's not that serious.
[9:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it is, domestic inequity, the sort of fights that we have about these things has real costs to our well-being, our relationships, it's not funny.
[9:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, I would say the thesis of your book is that many of us are living in a mediocre domestic dynamic, but we should and can expect better and expect more and I will say here because I know.
[10:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have a wide variety perspective, listening to the show, and I always want to make sure, like, I love men.
[10:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not trying to suggest that there's anything inherently wrong with men, but I think the way that our culture has set up, I'll tell you my stories the other day.
[10:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, we have set up our society in such a way that typically both people do have to work, but it hasn't caught up in the home.
[10:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're trying to,
[10:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: be both things outside of the home, but we haven't yet.
[10:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If that's true, then we need to course correct in the home as well.
[10:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And again, maybe men and maybe women don't want to acknowledge that, but it's like, well, that's what we're at.
[10:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we got it.
[10:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have to make some changes.
[10:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Sorry, I said a lot.
[10:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, 100%, 100% and not only do we need to catch up in the equity in the home.
[11:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But having two adults working outside of the home, each for 40 hours a week is totally unsustainable and not doable.
[11:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so who is supposed to be taking care of the household and the kids and when do we eat a meal or rest or work out our bodies or take care of ourselves or each other?
[11:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The whole thing is really set up not only to like squeeze us and squeeze the energy out of us but blame us for being stressed out or blame each other for not doing enough.
[11:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's it's really it's a spiral of of being set up to lose.
[11:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.
[11:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So going back, you were talking about the beginning.
[11:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just had to know what the nice incompetence was there.
[11:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You also talk about the nag paradox.
[11:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So these are some things.
[11:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I can let you explain nag paradox.
[11:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But also, if someone is recognizing that there are these patterns in their homes, what's the first step that we can take to get back on the right course?
[12:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think I've worked with people one-on-one in workshops.
[12:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I've researched, I've really been in this work for a while.
[12:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if I had to boil it down to one thing, it's just intention.
[12:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So many of these dynamics that we fall into are things that we've inherited or cultural scripts.
[12:30] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I
[12:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, so the nag paradox is one of the worst, one of the worst ones.
[12:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's, I'm sure we're all familiar with like, just tell me how I can help.
[12:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, you know, give me a list, I will jump in just only what to do, how to do it.
[12:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it's this imbalance that is really the standard where taught is supposed to work.
[12:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: of one party is delegating and the other party is taking directions and if you look at it closer, what it is is one person making more of the decisions and managing more of the domestic engineering or mental load and the other party is being told what to do is waiting for directions, not taking
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: for this sense of defensiveness, decision fatigue, the sense of critique or criticism or even contempt.
[13:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So there are alternatives.
[13:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I go into that about what it looks like to be collaborative.
[13:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the might, yeah, like you said, like the thesis of this is that we can have better and with intention and when we confront it and when we imagine better, we can have that.
[13:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[13:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think a lot of my friends say I just want there to be a noticing taking place here.
[14:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just want them to notice.
[14:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want them to notice what needs done.
[14:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want to have to outsource it because I'm managing all of this other stuff.
[14:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, which it just stinks that that's the way that our society is at this point.
[14:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't like it.
[14:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I hate that we can't, if we want to stay home with our babies, that we don't live in a society that we can't opt into that.
[14:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't like that.
[14:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we are here.
[14:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So again, I'm just like, we have to move forward in a better way.
[14:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think if we have these conversations, so often it creates arguments.
[14:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So how do we have a healthy communication when pointing these things out?
[14:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, hey, we want to make changes in the home with the nag paradox and or just making us look like we're control freaks in the home.
[14:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, that's tricky, you know, we all have a part in this and to your point, this this is often a gendered issue because of how our society set up, but it's not a biological like this is this is not how we are built to be having these arguments it takes personal reflection and growth and buy in from all parties.
[15:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And if I'm being so honest, you cannot convince someone to participate in changing the dynamic if they aren't willing.
[15:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: However, you can make changes on your own.
[15:18] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It takes emotional.
[15:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's an emotional regulation and a emotional awareness that is a big part of these conversations.
[15:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And there's a logistical part.
[15:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So just for example, I have ADHD.
[15:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I lose stuff, I forget to do things, I leave stuff out.
[15:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I also get defensive when I am reminded or managed or told what to do, I don't like it.
[15:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So if I am consistently doing a behavior that bothers other people or maybe, like I leave stuff out on the counters all day and other people can't use the space, I could continue with the behavior where it bothers my partner and we just continue to have that little budding of heads battle or
[16:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because my behavior is the one that is impacting, I can sit down and say, hey, I'm feeling really defensive.
[16:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I want my stuff out so I can see it and use it.
[16:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I recognize that it is impacting other people.
[16:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Can we come up with a solution?
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And that takes a lot of like humility.
[16:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I mean my partner also to give me a little bit of grace
[16:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then hopefully we can sit down and say like, okay, Laura needs to see stuff or it disappears.
[16:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Like, if I don't see it, it's gone to me.
[16:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I need my projects out.
[16:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How can we carve out a part of the dining room where Laura can keep her stuff out?
[17:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But the kids can do their crafts, or we can still eat dinner.
[17:09] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It takes intention and it takes practice to do this repeatedly and learn that consistently we can have these conversations.
[17:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But when I've been with my partner for almost 20 years, like we have 20 years of bad habits.
[17:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so we need to start to build that trust and consistency that we can care for each other while having these conversations and seeing each other's humanity in it.
[17:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that this is so important to get this right and to course correct, especially if we have young kids because we're instilling these values and them to take into their relationships and their roommate relationships as well.
[18:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and I think that
[18:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, coming out of a different generation, there was a lot of work done that was mismatched.
[18:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There was a lot put on the mother or whoever was the parent at home.
[18:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like that all fell on that person and so it's yeah, we have to take some time and effort and intention like you said to course cracked and I think our kids will be so much better for it as well.
[18:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: definitely.
[18:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And okay, so you mentioned something interesting, which is it has been the set up of one party handles the home and the other party might feel responsible for other work.
[18:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That's cool, you know, like I want to be really explicit that that set up is not inherently bad.
[18:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: All work is work, regardless of if it's paid or not, and
[18:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think something that I hope we will confront is that the work that happens of caring for each other or making conscientious decisions or things like that, like even being able to take care of someone in their sick is the work of building a life.
[19:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So it is important that everybody participate in that work
[19:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I mean, just practically, if one party is out of commission, it is safe for everyone.
[19:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You are being a protector if you are aware enough to be able to jump in and care for other people or the people in your life.
[19:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So it is about like, do both, if there are two parents in the household or two adults in the household?
[19:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do you each have enough awareness to make safe
[19:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If the other party had to jump on a flight and go take care of a sick parent, will they need to, like, how hard will it be for them to get out the door?
[20:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just like, how can you make the other person feel like they have more autonomy?
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And you can still divide your work, however you wanna divide it.
[20:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's just a way of investing in each other that's really important.
[20:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mm-hmm.
[20:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[20:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can touch a little bit on burnout because I'm like, okay, so if we have an imbalance in the home, how is it interfering?
[20:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And even if you want to share some personal stories here, Laura, like, what did it look like?
[20:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You said you struggled with your mental health at that point in time and you were experiencing burnout.
[20:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, were there other things that kind of maybe motivated you to have these conversations?
[20:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, for sure.
[20:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: My career had actually a lot to do with why we started like so intentionally confronting domestic inequity in my household.
[20:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I was a full-time teacher and my position was cut the week that I gave birth to my second kid and I was in an absolute panic, our family relied
[21:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I was like, oh, I haven't till the end of the month, basically, to have this kid and figure out how to get another job, or I don't know.
[21:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Do we pay for Cobra, which is like $2,000?
[21:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But for the first time, I felt incredibly unsafe in my career.
[21:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because I thought, I thought I was set.
[21:32] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is a long-term career.
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: that made me feel very unsafe and then I now have a small child and I have two very small children.
[21:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I had to find a job, start a new job, there's all these, how do you make friends?
[21:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Who do you sit without lunch?
[21:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How do you manage pumping during the time we're supposed to have staff meetings?
[21:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I'm like, oh great, I am the exception now.
[22:03] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I was like pulling my hair out, stressed out.
[22:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I just realized, like this is, it was so unsustainable, far more unsustainable than I thought it would be on so many levels.
[22:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: My husband was stretched incredibly thin with his own career, and I had zero patients.
[22:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Not a single ounce of patients to ask him for help nicely or to remind him.
[22:35] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I was basically, you know, in the fall of 2019, is when all this happened.
[22:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then we were, we had a big serious talk.
[22:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Okay, we got to figure this out because I'm crushed.
[22:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I have, I'm running on fumes.
[22:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'm a shallow person.
[22:53] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then freaking COVID happens.
[22:58] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So, I mean, I really,
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I have diagnosed biological, my brain is wired a certain way for mental health struggles, but I know I'm not alone in that.
[23:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There are gut pulled out from underneath us.
[23:13] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is not what we thought we were gonna have in our life.
[23:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This was not what we signed up for.
[23:20] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Even with the incredible domestic equity that we have like six years later, I mean, it's so fabulous.
[23:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We're still both really, we're still stressed out.
[23:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's still really hard to keep up.
[23:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And now the job for us is like, how do we make our household more sustainable?
[23:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How do we get the help we need?
[23:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How do we trim the fat of things you don't need to do?
[23:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just really nice to be in it with someone.
[23:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We're on the same page.
[23:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, for sure, I'll just share quickly a conversation with my husband this morning that I do feel like I bought she called me and he was I might end up cutting this out.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'll see, but he called me because the boys are both in soccer this time around and we didn't know that our oldest child, his games are going to be 30 minutes from our house on Saturdays and my husband is coaching both teams.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So in the mornings he needs to be 30 minutes from our house at the soccer game coach and then come back.
[24:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so my husband's timing all this, and I was just kind of like, what do you want from me?
[24:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What do I need to do?
[24:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm happy.
[24:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm always happy to drive.
[24:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess I was stereotypically in the role of like, tell me what to do.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know what you're expecting.
[24:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because to me, I'm like, oh, this is stuff.
[24:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm juggling all the time.
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm juggling pivoting in the schedules, or like, this kid needs to be here.
[24:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This kid needs a birthday gift.
[24:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I guess I was not very empathetic
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, I don't know how I can you drop it and it's like, well, no, because this team is depending on me to coach it.
[24:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I guess I'm just like at a loss for words, because I'm like, well, you're taking on this responsibility, just I have to do that, too.
[25:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I felt bad.
[25:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I at the end of the conversation, I was like, I'm sorry.
[25:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I should have been more empathetic.
[25:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that is stressful.
[25:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not training to get your stress, but I'm like, also, I do this all the time.
[25:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: As that's how the good jerk, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[25:21] \[SPEAKER_02\]: No, it's, and that's, I think, so relatable.
[25:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In any scenario where you are used to figuring it out, and this goes for, like, whether it's a domestic scheduling issue or whether it's, like, at work or with family, cush this happens all the time.
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We all would ideally like to have a partner in crime who can have enough information to jump in and make a similar decision.
[25:51] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And a lot of times that's just not how it works because we are sometimes each managing a certain aspect of home life.
[26:02] \[SPEAKER_02\]: but when you are used to it, I think that that is a fair, sort of like defensive gut reaction and to that acknowledge that that was the gut reaction isn't that like the best we can do realistically.
[26:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, that's okay.
[26:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess I may or may not leave that in.
[26:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not trying to throw my husband in the bus, and it wasn't a moment that painted me in the best light, but also again, I just think that men at some points, again, not to throw men under the bus, but I think that men just don't understand this is just a lot of things that were regularly juggling like the snow days.
[26:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If my kids might get to know so many snow days this year, and it's like I have to cancel my entire day sometimes for the snow days.
[26:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: which is fine like I'm happy to do it.
[26:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm happy to mom.
[26:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm grateful for the time with my kids.
[26:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sometimes I'm tired and I don't want to but it's like it's fine.
[26:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it's just like this is my normal life.
[26:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know.
[26:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just that's sometimes I'm just like I don't know what to say.
[26:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So all that to say, we will have these moments come into play.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the kind of like disrupt or like put each gender maybe in a different role than they're usually in and you were talking about moving away from mediocrity to thriving.
[27:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So what does that look like moving from mediocrity to thriving in a relationship.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, it's, is there such a thing?
[27:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, yeah, I do think so.
[27:22] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Mediacritty, as I would define it, when I talk about in this book, is basically that we have been oversold.
[27:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Mediacritty, as we know it, is being oversold something and under delivered.
[27:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So adulthood, parenthood, the job.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This life of fulfillment, if we do the right thing, we will get it, we will accomplish or achieve this.
[27:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I think so many of us are realizing that's not necessarily how things shook out.
[27:55] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so I believe that to thrive is to live in a world where everyone has their needs met.
[28:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And we can do that in our household, we can do that in our communities.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And always having an eye out for how we can care for ourselves and others really can help drive that and shape that.
[28:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Always with the like what the question of what do I need?
[28:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: How can I get that?
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And so to your point, you are doing, you know, you make decisions about your household.
[28:31] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We like extracurriculars.
[28:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We like these are the things that we value.
[28:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is how much time for rest I need, this is how much time with family and friends I need.
[28:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It isn't in competition with the other people.
[28:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It doesn't, my needs don't, aren't, sorry.
[28:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: My needs are not in competition with other people's needs.
[28:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And thinking about it that way can help us get creative.
[29:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We can stop doing things that we feel pressured to do, and instead embrace the things that we do want to do.
[29:08] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you've ever told yourself, I shouldn't be getting food delivery.
[29:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: There's probably some like moral thing that's been pushed on you about that.
[29:19] \[SPEAKER_02\]: To me, I have had that guilt for getting delivery food, but realistically, we enjoy it.
[29:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We have less stress, we sit down and we laugh together instead of spending so much time cleaning up.
[29:34] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We have decided that there is a balance where we feel confident with it.
[29:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's just all of these like intentional, even micro shifts that sort of lock things into place where there's less stress, we feel more, we actually feel more fulfilled in a way that works for us.
[29:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's probably me that was making you feel bad.
[29:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just had a post go out that was where we're unnecessary expectations are it's like food at home.
[30:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Your nails people do not like when I come for their nail appointments or for their pre-cut fruits and vegetables.
[30:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just suggesting, hey, if you're trying to cut funds, here's where they and you know what, that's so fair.
[30:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And our fruit goes rotten, if we buy it, it like in its uncut form.
[30:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You'll actually eat it if we buy the pre-cut stuff.
[30:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So that was a logical, we had to think about that very intentionally for a second and we were like, oh, okay, this is actually not waste, this is actually a great investment of money.
[30:42] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So fair, I did not see that post and the good thing is that I would just take that be like, I know what she's saying and the pre-cut for it is for me.
[30:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It with anything that you and I are saying it's like take what resonates and leave the rest to the side and And that's I mean, I think anyone trying to influence or to have some kind of social media presence It's like you're not going to agree with everything I say and why I say it and if you've been in here long enough You know my heart and what I want like
[31:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: People know my heart and what I want for people.
[31:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want them to, as I say, think more and do with less.
[31:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can live with less than we think.
[31:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can be more intentional about our decisions that we're making.
[31:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's why you're here, Laura, because I think we can be more intentional in our marriages.
[31:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's what I would suggest for you.
[31:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like you are trying to encourage people.
[31:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: not to get divorced because it's like it's unbalanced here.
[31:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, no, you can have these conversations that may be difficult.
[31:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They may have some growing pains and some bumpy roads, some bumpy paths, but it's like, no, you can get to the other side of this and have a thriving relationship.
[31:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can.
[31:44] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And I love, like, I want to...
[31:47] \[SPEAKER_02\]: throw back to what you said about our kids and roommates and things like that.
[31:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Because the book isn't just for parents, it's not just for married people.
[31:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: The whole point is, yeah, we can do more with less.
[32:01] \[SPEAKER_02\]: We can have simplified and aligned lives and relationships of all kinds of all kinds.
[32:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
[32:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, Laura, as you're up up here, where can listeners grab a copy of your book and connect with
[32:17] \[SPEAKER_02\]: you can get a copy of my book anywhere where you get books and you can get the audio book, which I read and I've gotten great feedback from people really like it.
[32:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, cool, while I'll be sure to include everything in the show notes, say, and then just quickly as we wrap up, I always ask my guests to final questions here at the very end.
[32:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[32:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would say, okay, so it's my local gardening group.
[32:45] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Oh, it's so cool.
[32:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I think that most people in their communities have a gardening group and gardening groups are like the most welcoming spaces.
[32:56] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You learn so much.
[32:57] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You meet so many people.
[32:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I highly recommend Googling or going on, you know, go on Facebook, whatever it is, look for your local gardening group.
[33:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: are you giving each other suggestions or do you literally have a garden that you do together?
[33:15] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Both.
[33:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So my neighborhood gardening groups started off with things like I would grow a bunch of cucumber seedlings and my neighbor would grow a bunch of tomato seedlings and then we'd swap.
[33:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And it has grown to we now steward an entire community garden lot where it's we grow food and there's an educational part of the garden and it's weekly events all summer it's blossomed it's blossomed
[33:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, literally.
[33:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, that's so funny.
[33:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You said that because yesterday my husband and I were looking at our garden and the people that lived there before us I mean it was beautiful when we moved in and we have not I don't have the green thumb He does, but he just doesn't have a ton of time in the summer because he's teaching like summer school Anyways, all that say I was like wonder if we asked like some of our friends that have
[34:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That have a green thumb that would want to come tend to this garden like that could be a really cool thing and then we can have community there, so You said that we just said that yesterday.
[34:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, I love yeah cool.
[34:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, my last question for you is what is something you can't stop talking about and I know this is a broad question, but you can answer it how you want
[34:27] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I would say I hate that it's sort of a double up here, but getting involved locally, I cannot shut up enough about the internet as fabulous.
[34:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You find cool people like us.
[34:38] \[SPEAKER_02\]: You can learn a lot, there's a purpose for it, but there is nothing as incredible as knowing the people on your block or in your little city go to the neighborhood.
[34:50] \[SPEAKER_02\]: zoning events, sometimes they're online too if you can't actually make it in person, get involved locally and know with the names of the people in your community.
[35:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, that's so good.
[35:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I love being a part of our little town's discussion board on Facebook.
[35:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like one of the reasons I get on Facebook, that in Facebook Marketplace or why I still get on Facebook.
[35:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, it's just going to cool to see what's going on or someone needs some help or if you need a baby said, I don't know, it's I love that as well.
[35:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like that's not to say there isn't real life going on in here in this realm, but it's like, yeah, you need that face to face.
[35:24] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, 100%.
[35:25] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And what a great way to share resources.
[35:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: to buy less, to just be able to share, get hand me down.
[35:33] \[SPEAKER_02\]: People are so excited to share, and to learn from each other, just ask somebody about their garden, and you will have made a lifelong friend.
[35:43] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, totally, totally.
[35:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, Laura, thanks so much for your encouragement today.
[35:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know this is a topic.
[35:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A little bit different than what I normally talk about, but like you said, it all comes back to intention.
[35:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So thanks for sharing with us today.
[35:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you so much.
[35:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[36:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[36:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[36:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do, is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[36:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[36:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with plus.

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