# Minimalism with Kids (and Beyond) | Diane Boden

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 5 May 2026, 42 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/c69b4f5b-7904-4c2e-ae44-f2df5865795c/stream.mp3

This episode originally aired on the Millennial Minimalist podcast with host, Kelly Foss. -------------------------------------------- Today’s episode is a little bit different—and kind of fun for me to share. About a month ago, I had the opportunity to sit down as a guest on the Millennial Minimalist Podcast, which doesn’t happen all that often. I’m usually the one asking the questions, so it was refreshing (and honestly a little vulnerable) to be on the other side of the conversation. Kelly and I talked about something that I know so many of us are craving - how to feel less overwhelmed, both in our homes and in our minds. And what I love about this conversation is that it really applies whether you have kids or not. We get into the practical side of managing the constant influx of stuff, involving kids in the process, and navigating the mental load of parenting - but also the bigger picture of simplifying your environment, reducing distractions, and creating more calm in everyday life. If you’ve ever wondered what it sounds like when I’m the one being interviewed… this is it. I hope it feels like a helpful, honest conversation - and maybe even offers a fresh perspective on some of the things we talk about here regularly. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Today's episode is a little bit different and kind of fun for me to share.
[0:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: About a month ago, I had the opportunity to sit down as a guest on the Millennial Minimalist podcast.
[0:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm usually the one asking the questions, so it's always fun to be on the other side of the conversation.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Kelly and I talked about something that I know so many of us are craving, and likely why you show up here week after week.
[0:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How to feel less overwhelmed both in our homes and our minds?
[0:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what I love about this conversation is that it really applies whether you have kids or not.
[0:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We get into the practical side of managing the constant influx of stuff, involving kids in the process, and navigating the mental load of parenting.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But also the bigger picture of simplifying your environment, reducing distractions, and creating more calm and everyday life.
[0:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, if you've ever wondered what it sounds like when I'm the one being interviewed, this is it.
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I hope it feels like a helpful, honest conversation, and maybe even offers a fresh perspective on some things that we talk about here regularly.
[0:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, let's get to it.
[0:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hi, everyone.
[0:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Today, for a second time, I'm speaking with fame, minimalist thought leader, author, and the creator and host of the minimalist mom's podcast, Diane Bowden.
[1:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Back by popular demand, Diane is a minimalist and mom of three on a mission to help people simplify, feel less overwhelmed and live more intentionally.
[1:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And together, we dive into how to maintain a minimal lifestyle with kids, including how to manage the ongoing influx of clutter, how to get kids involved in decluttering and organizing, and how to decide what's enough when it comes to kids schedules and hobbies.
[1:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Plus, we discuss how to manage the mental load when it comes to parenting, and why even short moments of peace and self-care can make a big difference.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Plus, for those of you who are child-free, Diane and I also talk beyond minimalism in kids.
[1:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We discuss how this lifestyle helps us become more aware and better manage everyday distractions, how simplifying certain areas in our lives helps us find a sense of control amidst the chaos, and how some things just gotta give.
[1:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Be inspired to explore how minimalism can work for families, reduce stress at home and in your mind, and create more space for what matters most.
[2:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, it's so nice to have you back.
[2:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The last time we spoke was back in 2020.
[2:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Can you believe it?
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, man.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, 2020 feels in certain ways, like yesterday and then a lifetime ago.
[2:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So weird time.
[2:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, yeah.
[2:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I actually recently sent out a feedback survey to my listeners.
[2:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I said, who do you recommend to have on the podcast?
[2:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And overwhelming number of people is saying, the minimalist moms.
[2:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, golden.
[2:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was like, wow, I've actually interviewed her before.
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's just a really old episode, right?
[2:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So people don't realize.
[2:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, it's always good to have the refreshment listeners that didn't hear that first interview.
[2:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then also, I've grown so much in the past six years.
[2:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm sure it's fresh perspective for me as well.
[2:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'm so excited to speak with you today.
[2:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, so to start for our listeners who are new to you, could you share a little bit more about your background as a minimalist and a mom to three as well as how your podcast came to be and where you are today with this lifestyle.
[3:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, so I always like to share the story of how I began to pursue minimalism in a sense on my own, but also in in my marriage.
[3:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There was a moment where my husband and I were.
[3:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In my parents basement, we had been looking for something and he turned to me and said, look at all of these things that are now in boxes that were once your dad's harder and working hours.
[3:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it just struck me that at that point I had been spending money on clothes.
[3:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I always wanted to wear the same, I always wanted to have something different.
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I never wanted anyone to see me in the same outfit and just decorations just to kind of keep up with the
[3:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I had really nothing to show for it.
[3:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I had guilt for spending money.
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I had a ton of credit card debt and I was still feeling like I wanted more.
[3:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like it never was enough.
[3:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So anyways, I had all that Go on in my head just this light bulb moment.
[3:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Never really talked to my husband about it But I kind of just told myself from this moment on.
[4:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just want to start to live differently.
[4:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I had to stay out of stores
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just really had to get my mind clear on what it was that I wanted.
[4:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, flash for, I mean, that's how I've lived with our three kids.
[4:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say at this point, I'm maybe more frugal than even minimalist because three kids do have their own opinions.
[4:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They have their own autonomy to what they want to bring in.
[4:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I'm living a minimalist life specifically for myself and trying to, which I know we're going to be talking about today, like how it's applicable to kids, which I can't wait to get there.
[4:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, the podcast came about.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Geez, about 10 years ago, a girl and I had started it and she was living in 3,000 square feet at that time.
[4:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was in 800 square feet and yet we were still trying to pursue minimalism and so we're like this could be a really cool dynamic of conversation because
[4:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We are living very differently at pursuing the same path.
[4:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it started back then, she stepped away, maybe a year and a half into it, and I took it over and made it more interview-based, and I've been doing that since.
[4:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Wow, this is a great story, and it's similar to me and Lauren.
[5:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So Lauren, nice to have a podcast.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that's right.
[5:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then you took it over.
[5:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, recently.
[5:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[5:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And now I'm focused on interviews more, which is great.
[5:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yeah, Lauren and I we actually lived more similar lifestyles.
[5:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We've both started in 400 square foot apartments.
[5:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And we started living this way.
[5:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, she started living this way first and then she inspired me to adopt this lifestyles.
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a dynamic.
[5:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I also read online that I think it's your ninth year of running the podcast.
[5:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, I was, you say 9 or 10 years, and it's, it's interesting because before you and I had hit record, I was sharing how I always try to have every interview focused on speaking to some part of intentionality and intentional living and it's crazy that there's been this many conversations.
[5:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think I'm over 550 episodes at this point and the guests just keep bringing the information and it's been Really inspiring and insightful.
[5:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like I've grown so much in the last handful of years.
[5:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I know.
[6:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I totally understand.
[6:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I feel the exact same.
[6:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's been eight years for Lauren and I Lauren recently just stepped away to focus on a business that she built, that was inspired through the podcast, which is, oh, yeah, she helps people build 20 outfit wardrobe to reduce decision making in the morning.
[6:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She's become very passionate about that.
[6:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I've been very passionate about interviewing guests.
[6:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so,
[6:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm continuing with the podcast, so that's kind of the story.
[6:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I was reading about you online.
[6:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was like, oh, it was so much time.
[6:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're in similar ages as well.
[6:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I was like, oh, yeah, I thought so.
[6:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[6:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So like my I'm dead, Kendrick Spear, it's here.
[6:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really, it's interesting that we're going to be talking a lot about parenting and minimalism and children with all this stuff because I still don't feel like I'm perfect at all this.
[6:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So especially as my children have gotten older, I've struggled a little bit more.
[6:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm excited to kind of pick your brain while we have this chat.
[6:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, yes.
[6:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And as someone who doesn't have children yet, I also have genuine questions for you as well.
[6:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I find that over the past few years, like you, I love to geek out on minimalism.
[7:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I could talk about it for forever.
[7:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And sometimes when I'm approached by parents, they'll say, Oh, well, oh, that's great.
[7:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But that doesn't apply to me because I have kids.
[7:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm hoping you can start by clearing up that misconception.
[7:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say it's similar to minimalism in general that people have this idea of sterile white walls.
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can't own more than one cushion or a kit cushion pillow for your couch.
[7:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For me, it's never been like that minimalism has been a tool to get rid of what's superfluous in my life.
[7:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's somewhat the same way that I apply it towards towards my kids.
[7:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, I think, especially as I said earlier, their autonomous beings that I never want this to backfire with my children, like having them turn into hoarders or just really, well, really caring about their things.
[7:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I've tried to give limits within the boundaries of visual spaces for them.
[7:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think that I guess misconception is that you still don't have
[8:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: is that you don't have things.
[8:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You don't have toys.
[8:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You only have like wooden blocks and things from nature like no, we that's not my random minimalism.
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess I should say which has made it more accessible.
[8:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think for my kids and my friends that have implemented this lifestyle.
[8:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I always tell people it's about living a simpler, more intentional life, simplify all areas of life.
[8:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you love to paint and you want to art a studio and it's full of tons of brushes and paints, that's fine.
[8:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because you're intentional with that stuff.
[8:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, and then also because we do have fewer things, it gives them more excitement.
[8:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: towards the things that they do have.
[8:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think the people think that when you're a minimalist, it's like, oh, they'll get bored, but it's absolutely the opposite.
[8:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like we only have these few things.
[8:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we have to really figure out a way to engage and to be more creative.
[8:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I just think about the decision fatigue that you feel for example in a wardrobe and in closet.
[8:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When I have too many things, it's overwhelming.
[9:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think for the kids narrowing it down, it just helps them to be discerning about what they want to play.
[9:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So would you say that you kind of have limited the number of toys that you provided your children over the years?
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or I would say yes and no, that I don't put a specific number on it.
[9:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know some people will condense their wardrobe to a certain amount.
[9:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm sure that there are parents that only give a certain amount of toys.
[9:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't feel like I can fully control that.
[9:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I also think you release what you can.
[9:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What do I always say?
[9:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So especially for my 11 year old, I'm not going to be able to control those little details like I could in the boys rooms my sister all that that's a little bit easier, but I think I think again like control the things you can release the rest like this is these are my children's lives I want it to be fun I don't want to take anything away from them.
[9:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yet if we have those visual boundaries of you can fill this much space and then once it's filled it's time to start to let some things go.
[10:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then also just kind of allowing them to see when your space is really overwhelmed with things, with toys, it's hard to move about your room.
[10:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so when we get rid of some of the things, you can more easily access the things that you do have and enjoy this space.
[10:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So truly, it's in those little life lessons that they can see it, that you're not just describing something that's, I guess, out of reach or they can't really see.
[10:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[10:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I actually recently interviewed someone who travels the world with his children.
[10:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and they travel quite often.
[10:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So he'll say to his kids, okay, if you want this little trinket, it's going to have to fit in your carry-on bag.
[10:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It'll just fit in your carry-in bag.
[10:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You might have to get rid of something else.
[10:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's interesting so they understand, oh, I only have a limit of space to work with.
[10:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and again, you can always create more spaces.
[10:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think I'll say that to a woman listening and she's like, well, I'm going to go buy another shelf to put up and it's like don't just buy something to buy it.
[10:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's similarly to our house right now.
[11:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We moved into a bigger house than we've ever had and I'm just slowly taking my time to decorate and parts of the home.
[11:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We've left completely empty because it's just like I'm not going to fill this to fill a need.
[11:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: rid of things.
[11:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right, yeah, their rooms get bigger and they're like, oh, it looks a little empty.
[11:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, no, you can keep it that way.
[11:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It doesn't need to look stuff, right?
[11:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yeah, it's it's probably time to start decluttering if you feel the need to go buy more storage for the things that you have.
[11:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I know your kids are getting older now, but I'm curious when they were younger.
[11:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How did you have them help declutter or keep things organized?
[11:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Did you kind of set the standard to be like, hey, let's organize now or let's put this away.
[11:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What do you suggest that parents can do to help them get involved in the process of decluttering or organizing?
[11:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think it goes back to that empowerment rather than control.
[11:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I did, I, I forgot that I did with stuffy specifically.
[12:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I did put a number on that, so I remember when my daughter was younger.
[12:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was like, okay, these are the 10 that are your favorite.
[12:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now, who do you want to get rid of to pass off to a cousin or to donate?
[12:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And again, those things have such sentimental attachment, so I'm not suggesting that it's going to be easy to anyone that's listening.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think especially in the beginning, there's going to be a learning curve for your kids, but I think allowing them, like keep it simple, allowing them to come in and to sort a box of legos or box of blocks.
[12:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, you can do this with your three-year-old just having them sort what needs to go there and what doesn't.
[12:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But again, giving that them that authority over their space and just clearly defining that space for them.
[12:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's kind of how I got them involved.
[12:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, I forgot about that the stuffy specifically because those can just become
[12:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: completely out of control in your home.
[12:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, I think my biggest thing is I've always just wanted them to not like to not feel like I was forcing something on them as they were getting older.
[13:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is mom's thing, but I can see the benefit of why we do things even on us on a low level.
[13:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Do your children ever express that they see the benefit of you living with less?
[13:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think specifically my daughter dies.
[13:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She's a funny one.
[13:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, she definitely sees the benefit of it.
[13:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think my boys, their rooms are actually, I would say her room is probably a little bit more cluttered.
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She has more than they have.
[13:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I don't think, I don't know.
[13:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would just say what you don't know.
[13:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so if someone's listening and they have really little kids, I mean, if you're not going to friends houses that have a ton of stuff or the cousins, I mean, a lot of the play dates that we do even are not necessarily people's houses, but they're outside.
[13:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think if you're growing them in those environments and just seeing what the focus.
[13:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: should be on and is on.
[13:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think ignorance can be bliss.
[13:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mentioned to you before this recording that my mom owned a daycare at her home.
[13:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so growing up I had seven to nine kids all in my home all at once plus my sister and brother.
[14:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it was pretty much chaos.
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But there are moments where my mom would even just have three or four children and she would still say, oh, I can't keep up because they play with these toys and then they go to the next thing.
[14:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Then they play with these crafts and it's just, and so if a mom is listening or a mom or dad is listening and they're thinking, oh, you know, I can't keep up other either.
[14:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, they're overwhelmed.
[14:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They go onto the next thing.
[14:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What are some practices that they can put in place to help them inspire the children to
[14:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: see, so this is why I mentioned that I'm still struggling with some of this as well.
[14:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We've been snowed in for the last two and a half, three days.
[14:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I have found that this has been one of the issues my husband and I are running into.
[14:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I got up this morning and I was like, you guys, there is a puzzle out here.
[14:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Your legos are here, your magnetiles are here.
[14:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this is something that I'm still struggling with.
[14:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Specifically, I think probably with the boys, because they play off of one another.
[15:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we did, as we were trying to clean up today, it's kind of just like one thing at a time.
[15:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think cleaning up one thing at a time and then reminding them that moving forward, like let's just clean this thing up.
[15:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think with little kids, if you're trying to build that into them, again, I haven't always done this while.
[15:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like you're going to have to be a little bit more of a micromanager at first, and then you can slowly release the reins, and hopefully they'll learn those lessons.
[15:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sometimes I think it's just always going to be something that we are navigating.
[15:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that some things may always be a struggle.
[15:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's true even with the cluttering.
[15:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think there are things that we struggle to fully let go of.
[15:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's just the human experience.
[15:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's a parenting experience.
[15:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would just say, like, don't shame yourself.
[15:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: too much if you don't have every area of decluttering mastered, it's really the goal is to live with less than you can because you are capable of doing so and don't expect everything across the board to remain ideal.
[16:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I like that.
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[16:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't care.
[16:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't care.
[16:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't care.
[16:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's for meaning as we were talking about earlier intentionality, remaining intentional, like bringing it back to the prefrontal cortex, not being in our animal brain, but really gathering that intention towards whatever it is that you're doing in the current moment.
[16:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know near IL, he wrote a book indestructible and he talks about how truly you can only give your attention to one thing in the moment.
[16:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's like, this is the thing I'm doing right now in this moment.
[16:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But even for me right now, as we're having this interview, my kids are home for a snow day, and I know they're in the other room, and it is a bit of a struggle because I'm not fully, fully present.
[17:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have like 90% of my attention right now, but there is still a distraction, a distracted part of me.
[17:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that when we are doing these, when we're implementing these new habits, you truly have to have a hundred percent focus on what it is that you want the outcome to be, what you want the goal to be, and move to
[17:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: through it.
[17:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it is annoying.
[17:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We don't want to do that.
[17:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have so much to manage in our day-to-day life.
[17:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have jobs and school events, all the things.
[17:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think we have to be honest with ourselves about again what the end goal is, what we want long-term, and then that helps kind of give a boost of momentum in the direction that we want to take with that intentionality.
[17:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well said, I actually interviewed NRL as well, and I absolutely loved his book Indestructible for those who haven't read it yet.
[17:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's incredible.
[17:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And you know what, at the end of the day, it's all about minimalism and it's all about be more aware.
[17:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: NRL's book inspired me to be more aware of the distractions in my every day.
[18:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And even as we're talking right now, you're, I mean, your kids are in the other room.
[18:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, yeah, 10% of you is thinking about your kids.
[18:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And for me, I'm like, I didn't sleep last night very well.
[18:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so my head hurts, but I'm like, you know, I'm doing I'm doing the best I can you can just show up and do the best that you can you know, any means sometimes the days and isn't going to be perfect but you keep going and that's yeah and this what I also remind my listeners it's like I'm in perfect to you and I think that this this lifestyle is perfectly imperfect.
[18:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: or taking the small steps towards the life that you want.
[18:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you didn't end up here overnight too.
[18:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that my husband and I are like, oh, man, there's some bad habits our kids are in right now.
[18:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Maybe with even using too many potty words and it's like, well, we didn't necessarily address that at the onset of it.
[18:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so,
[18:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's taking a few.
[18:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Every time we take a step forward, we're taking a few steps back, but it's like, well, this is our parenting journey.
[18:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like we're here.
[18:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're on it.
[19:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's again, you're right.
[19:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not going to be perfect, but we're in it for the long haul.
[19:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would suggest with anything that you and I talk about today.
[19:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: again, what is the end goal, but you're going to be in it.
[19:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want to say you're in it for life, but it's like you can take a small step every single day for the rest of your life to get there.
[19:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I agree.
[19:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So when it comes to children, my mom said growing up that my sister and my brother and I, we had a lot of toys and sometimes, you know, she was like, oh, you know, you're not playing with that toy, so I'm all heighted.
[19:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, put it away and then don't need it.
[19:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Do you suggest doing something like that because a lot of the time kids have so much stuff, if they get so attached to their things, but if they don't know what's there anymore, they might forget.
[19:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So how can a parent start letting go of all that excess stuff that maybe they're not playing with anymore?
[19:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But if you show them, hey, I'm going to take this away.
[19:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They'd be like, no, you know, what are you doing there?
[19:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How to say it out of mind, right?
[19:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, no, I would say that was so much easier when they're under five, four or five.
[20:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If they're under four or five, I think you can get away with that a lot easier.
[20:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But again, as they get older, that's that is definitely a struggle and the outside out of mind thing is really helpful.
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if there's something that
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We'll say specifically to my voice, my six and my eight-year-old.
[20:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If I've noticed that they haven't been playing with it, I have a cabinet and that thing goes in the cabinet.
[20:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if I don't hear about it for three months, I don't need it.
[20:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, we can have that dialogue down the road if they happen to notice it on one random day.
[20:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I can have that conversation as honestly as possible.
[20:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, buddy, I had to move things out of the way that weren't really fitting in here anymore.
[20:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You didn't really ever play with it, making space for the new things to come in when they do.
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Again, I think you can have pretty rational conversations with your kids.
[20:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm sure someone's like, oh, well, you lied to them or you hit it as they get older.
[20:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think you don't do that as much.
[20:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I would say with my daughter, when she's done with something, she's kind of just done with it.
[20:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I don't know.
[20:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't micromanage her as much as I used to and she was younger, but she's pretty good at this point.
[20:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I have a sack over here from TJ Maxx that she was like filled up this bag and was like, I'm done with this.
[21:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want this in my room anymore.
[21:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So wow.
[21:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[21:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So again, I think that's not necessarily the norm and every person's different and maybe boys and girls are different in some of this as well.
[21:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, I think in regards to getting rid of things, I don't advocate for lying, but I think it's easier to just have things leave when they're younger.
[21:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Have you ever put together a donation bin with your children and said, okay, we're going to donate these items.
[21:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, we've done that too, and we've also done.
[21:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Specifically my youngest.
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He loves to give things to his cousin Catherine.
[21:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's kind of the same with him.
[21:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's kind of funny that they'll exchange different toys or we're a part of a nature group.
[21:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think you could do this with like a preschool class or a Sunday school class.
[21:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you have, if you know you have little friends there, not to push off our toys and our things on to others.
[21:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But sometimes they'll be like, oh, I want to give this to so-and-so, or oh, I want to get this box to so-and-so.
[22:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, yes, we've done the donations to Goodwill or film the blank, but we've also, it's been more fun.
[22:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think when they know that something's going to, like, their toy is going to someone else.
[22:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, have that second life with someone else.
[22:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mm-hmm, especially around holidays, you know, we like, oh, you know, instead of thinking about what you can add to your life or add to your Christmas list, like what is in your room that you're no longer playing with that you could give to another person, right?
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I mean, I wish we could do that in general as as a society, I wish we could be
[22:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We could normalize giving second hand gifts at a birthday because my kids get a second hand toy that's been gently loved.
[22:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, that makes so much more sense.
[22:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It would come back consumerism.
[22:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think we still have this mindset, more of a traditional mindset of that's kind of embarrassing.
[22:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, that's not proper.
[22:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's impolite.
[22:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I don't know, maybe it's our generation will change that and people will be more comfortable.
[22:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You're right, our generation doesn't accept that yet.
[22:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We buy second hand.
[23:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But we don't give second hand.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I do think that that could be really valuable.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I have however received gifts that were wrapped in old clothing or old materials from something else from second hand, which is kind of neat.
[23:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[23:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Our mom's night that we have for an age or group, I suggest the last year, maybe it's two years ago now, bring like a consumable or something gently used from your home that you're ready to get like, to like go of.
[23:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And everyone loved it.
[23:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We were all like, oh, this is so amazing.
[23:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And everyone's gifts were really awesome.
[23:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There was no weird gifts that showed up that day.
[23:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So,
[23:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: we should start the trends.
[23:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, we should start the trend.
[23:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So when it comes to mental loads, I want to talk about mental clutter because I'm sure you talk about mental access on your podcast all the time as well.
[23:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have some close friends I want to particularly that has a question.
[23:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So oftentimes she has two children, she's at home with her kids every day and she can feel so overwhelmed into the point where she just doesn't feel like herself.
[24:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's just curious like what you do to disconnect or what boundaries you have in place to kind of keep your mental sanity it's been a huge help to have my husband understand that I need to keep mental sanity and I need to have that time of independence I also give that to him as well I think that that has been a really good dynamic that we have so I would say maybe even starting there like if you are finding that you don't have time throughout the day to have that quiet time that reflective time.
[24:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: ask your partner and if you're a single mom listening, find another mom friend or a sister that you can maybe pass off the kids with and take a break even like once a month.
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're talking about the bare minimum needed to remain mentally well and I just see that when I guess I see the the opposite when I'm not taking care of my mind and myself and my rest.
[24:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's it's not good for anyone.
[24:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So
[25:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not selfish, it's truly to be the best that we can offer.
[25:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I mean, I don't need to go underneath the clichés, but like putting your mask on first, like everyone knows this.
[25:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just we don't make it a priority in our life.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We always come.
[25:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: second, third, fourth, if at all.
[25:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I would just say being deliberate about that time and literally writing on the calendar, confirming it.
[25:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My mom, I'll ask my mom for something six months in advance.
[25:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, I don't even know what I'm doing next month.
[25:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's like, well, I have to put this on the calendar to make sure that it happens or else it's not going to happen.
[25:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I'm kind of organized in that way, but then it's like, well, I get all my breaks in because I plan to head.
[25:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've gotten the person I've confirmed.
[25:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mm-hmm and you have something to look forward to.
[25:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That makes sense.
[25:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
[25:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And again, I know that everyone's circumstance is different, but I'm saying even if you take a Saturday and go on a walk at a park for 45 minute, like you just need that time away where you're not what?
[25:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, as individuals, we have all these identities, mom, wife, sister, the last sibling.
[26:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, you are not just a mother.
[26:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You are who you are.
[26:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You are Kelly.
[26:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I am Diane.
[26:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I think that we have to remember that and then again, root ourselves in that identity that we have all these hats.
[26:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And are there practices that you carry out each day that help you create that sense of peace and calm in your everyday?
[26:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think I'm in a season right now that's that kind of lens itself to having some more independence.
[26:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, granted a lot of the times I'm spending that time working on the podcast or one of the few side hustles that I have, but I mean, even just taking the first 15 minutes to go to a coffee has to work.
[26:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just kind of sit there and I'll just drink my coffee like slowly and you could do that in the morning when you wake up.
[26:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I also try to make sure I go to Plotty's a handful of times each week.
[26:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, I'm not the best about, like, oh, my morning routine looks like this in this in this.
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sometimes I'll be in bed at night.
[26:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I know I have a Plotty's class scheduled, and I'll cancel it at, like, 11, because I know, hey, if I get up at 5am, I'm, like, my sleep is more valuable to me than that.
[27:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, that's good.
[27:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[27:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I've been a lot better about Pratt.
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm really, I'm very protective over sleep in a way that I used to not be.
[27:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I also think that's a huge thing that contributes to our sanity.
[27:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: 100%.
[27:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I do the same thing.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I have class pass.
[27:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know if that you have a name.
[27:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's what I have to do.
[27:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay.
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I will wait to book my class until the morning, depending on how well I sleep.
[27:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm the same as you because I my sleep can be very unpredictable.
[27:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I'm like, okay, well, I rather have six seven hours sleep, then have five and go work out.
[27:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, because you're in a deficit anyways.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so yeah, and again, I think this looks different in the very
[27:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: seasons when I had young kids, my workouts were me walking to the end of our street and back.
[27:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, yeah, after I put the kids in bed, I would go out and just call a friend.
[27:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And honestly, I really, I really love that time.
[27:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I miss it.
[27:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think you just have to look at what's realistic of where you're at.
[28:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And
[28:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I always tell people, like, keep the blinders on.
[28:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's about everything that we're talking about, like, keep the blinders on what is that you're doing, look down and live your life.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is no one else's life.
[28:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They can listen to our input, but it's really about what they know to be true about their life, to be true about their life.
[28:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think go often people lie to themselves, and it's like, then you're just going to remain stuck.
[28:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So be true about the patterns, even the ones that you don't like and address them.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you're not fooling anyone, and you shouldn't fool yourself, like you're more likely to live life to the fullest if you are honest with yourself about the things that are even negative in your life and working through them.
[28:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh wow, you know, I'm not a mom yet, but I could see myself trying to become, you know, a being who I am today and being hyper aware where I'm studying my time energy attention.
[28:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and being hyper aware of when I need help and not being afraid to say, hey, I need help right now.
[28:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't do it all, you know, I need to help me hand.
[28:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: A lot of my closest friends are moms now, and I also am also very accommodating, because I understand their schedules.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They also plan way in advance.
[29:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And at first I was like, oh, you're playing a month though, you know, but then, you know, they, it's because they're busy.
[29:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I understand.
[29:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm, as someone who has more flexibility, I try to be as more as accommodating as I can.
[29:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yeah, I hope to be among one day, which would add a new dynamic to the podcast.
[29:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My, my former co-host Lauren will be still a guest on the podcast, and she's planning on having kids soon.
[29:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that'll be, that'll be a fun dynamic.
[29:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And,
[29:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and you know, having a mom who's been in daycare for forever, you know, the hardest job in the world.
[29:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know how she did it.
[29:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: She just loves, she just loves kids so much and I'm so lucky.
[29:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have a built in babysitter.
[29:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, but, but yeah, you know, it's not easy.
[29:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It has its amazing moments that, you know, it's not easy because, you know, you're always looking after other people.
[29:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you kind of sometimes end up in a situation where you're,
[29:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: your put second, right?
[29:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm trying to understand how many kids you have.
[30:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's not easy, but I'm curious how your relationship with this lifestyle minimalism has changed or evolved as your kids have grown.
[30:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I said, I would say that I'm the most, I'm the practicing minimalist here of the family.
[30:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say my husband was just kind of living that way in general, like a few
[30:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks, I don't know.
[30:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He wasn't, I guess he was, he doesn't really think that much about it, but he just just found himself living somewhat of a minimalist lifestyle.
[30:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But how is my relationship with it changed?
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think I've had to adapt a little bit more outside of my preferences, like I said, allowing for their preferences to also be heard, and it's not just about me, and I also think that minimalism
[30:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: when you're using it as a tool can become like a tool for control.
[30:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And like again, really wanting control and all and all facets of life.
[30:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I've had to recognize like I said earlier, control what you can and just release the rest of it.
[30:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It can become so rigid about the way that we want things to be that it's off putting for other people.
[31:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think it's okay to set a boundary.
[31:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: of this is the family room this is a shared space let's try and maintain it and keep it the way that we'd all like to come and join it but also that I think that we don't have to be so rigid in the boundaries about the rooms like sometimes my son's room is a total hurricane disaster and I'm like I'll help you eventually clean it up but this is this is what you want you like it like this and just kind of allowing for that anecdotal evidence of how maybe he wants
[31:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, I would just say, I become more adaptable in what it looks like and what it doesn't look like.
[31:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it doesn't look like the minimalist.
[31:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It doesn't look like a bachelor's pad.
[31:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, no, we have kids here and I'm going to be really sad when they're gone one day.
[31:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm going to be really sad when I'm going to be.
[31:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so I think just understanding the season, you're in and how you can just be more thoughtful about the things that you're
[32:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mm-hmm.
[32:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's so interesting, you're right, you know, sometimes with this lifestyle, it's like we, we want the best of everything, we want every area of our lives to be kind of perfected because we're hyper-aware of every area.
[32:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: However, I would say that since I got rid of all the excess and the distractions in my life, it's also helped me kind of,
[32:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: ease out a little bit and feel less rigid because I find that I've got things in place.
[32:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I feel more clarity every day.
[32:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I feel like I'm more present with the people in my life.
[32:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I've heard feedback from my friends are like, yeah, you're like, so easy going.
[32:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You're so calm and relaxed.
[32:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it's
[32:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: because I have this element of relaxation, it's easier for me to show up and if something happens, like everything's spilled milk to me, it's no big deal, right?
[32:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so over the years, that's really, really help, but I think they when I had so much access in my life, I was just like, it added so much stress, right?
[32:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I couldn't be as present and I wanted to control one area because my life felt out of control in other areas.
[33:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, no, for sure.
[33:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We were, I guess that's the story of my life, just seeking control in whatever area I can and it always, it becomes an obsession in a sense.
[33:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Truly, it has been with like fitness or eating too much, eating too little.
[33:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was with boys.
[33:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was was shopping.
[33:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was controlling my kids, controlling the things.
[33:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it's, it looks like all of the things in my life, but it is, it just comes back to wanting to control and you just can't.
[33:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can't control
[33:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's why I like minimalism for myself so much because in a sense, it's like, well, I know I can control my closet, but I can't control what this person's doing.
[33:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, for me, minimalism has just been a really cool thing because why wouldn't I take the control where I can?
[33:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't know, because you can't control the world when I step out my door, I can't control anything out there.
[33:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, you're being more mindful about the various areas of your life.
[33:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I said at the end of the day, minimalism is just being more hyper-aware so that you can get again spend your time energy attention in the areas that are most important to you.
[34:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's best as you can.
[34:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And again, it takes her made along the way.
[34:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I'm curious, what do you do when there's a lot of schedules and hobbies that your kids have?
[34:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Sure, we only have one child in a sport per season.
[34:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So right now, Benji is doing basketball, Martin did flag football last time around.
[34:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think Martin might be doing soccer in the spring, but Charlotte's a little bit different because I do home school her.
[34:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I do
[34:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: put a higher priority on the number of things that she's doing, but when it comes to the sport season, I don't want to be rushing from things that thing and all these practices and make the siblings go to all the practices and the games and so we have been really intentional about what we say yes to in that regard.
[34:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Outside of that, I have tried to be better about creating margin in our week so that if someone is
[35:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: wanting to go do something that I actually have time to be like oh yeah we could do it on the state we haven't filled up our entire week but I'm I think there's a healthy balance between structure and margin and I'm still not quite there but I'm I'm getting better at it.
[35:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: By Martin you mean white space right?
[35:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean yeah time to do nothing and I can definitely tell with my daughter I she was contemplating going to public school.
[35:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I had told her you would be at school for seven hours versus the time that we spent here doing school.
[35:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I was like, let's still your schedule to see what it would look like for you to be away from the home five days a week, like six, seven hours a day.
[35:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we did all these classes, all these co-ops.
[35:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she was like, wait, I have no time to be, like, to do my own thing.
[35:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was like, yeah, that is, again, not trying to dissuade her, uh, I think that's fine.
[35:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: her to go to public school, but she needed the margin.
[35:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She saw for herself like, no, I need a day where I can just be at home and do nothing and take it slow and I, I don't know, I think that even our kids do get it.
[36:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, they do.
[36:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a great example of how.
[36:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[36:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I saw that you ran a series called Clear Intentions.
[36:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm curious.
[36:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Did you start this show to show that minimalism goes beyond decluttering.
[36:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, and no, I was actually a rebrand.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I was I was trying to get rid of minimalist moms and.
[36:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: change the show's name to clear intentions.
[36:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was the same thing as minimalist moms just with a more inclusive name for people that weren't just moms to listen.
[36:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think people associate with the with the brand and a sense minimalist mom.
[36:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I ended up switching it back because it wasn't as well received.
[36:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yeah, I mean, what I was trying to do with that is just to show that you can be intentional about the way that you break up.
[36:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I had a guest on the angry therapist John Kim.
[36:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I love him.
[36:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He's one of my favorite cardcasters.
[36:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[36:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Great.
[36:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I had him on to talk about his breakup book and it was like these are the eight types of breakups you go through or whatever the number was and it was just like I think people should be more thoughtful about this.
[37:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know who's listening but I'm like this is so interesting and I'm trying to think of other people that I had on the show but it was really just about intentionality.
[37:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like what does it look like to cultivate an intentional life in this area?
[37:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's what minimalist moms is doing.
[37:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's just like I said I've been podcasting for
[37:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: like over 550 episodes at this time.
[37:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So minimalist moms just didn't seem inclusive of everyone but I wanted to include but I mean it's really for anyone that wants to pursue that kind of lifestyle.
[37:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, I hear you because we're called, well, millennial minimalist.
[37:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of listeners who are gen X, Gen Z.
[37:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They're they're across the board.
[37:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's just I happened to be a millennial speaking to any generation.
[37:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I hear you at the title change, but I I loved it because clear and tend to that is what minimalism is it's about getting clear.
[37:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: on the areas of your life that you want to be intentional about.
[37:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yeah, I know it's hard to sometimes re-rank so everybody knows you under the same name.
[38:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So to start to close our conversation, how has living a minimalist lifestyle impacted you in the most positive way?
[38:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And what is one piece of advice that you give to our listeners today, especially our parent listeners, who are moms and dads, who kind of want to create a little bit more ease in their everyday.
[38:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I would say in regards to the benefit for myself, I do think.
[38:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: are I do think the reason behind why we are consumers and why we bring so many things into our house is a really it's actually a spiritual thing for me and usually when I'm not honest with myself about what like where I think my value comes from that's when I start buying too much because it's like oh my value is in this really cool thing as I do like nice things I like quality of
[38:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think that for me, when I'm really honest with myself about where my value comes around, like as a Christian, my value does come from what God says about me, but also it's not rooted in the tangible things here, because like even if you're not spiritual, like you come into this world with nothing and you leave with nothing.
[39:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so if you're just like if we're just like focused on our soul and what it is that we bring to the table, it's like the things are just
[39:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: like an extra cherry on top, like they aren't the meaning of life.
[39:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I don't know, I can get really like woo-woo and maybe extra in a sense about all of that, but it was the last thing, oh, for parents that want to not be that maybe introspective.
[39:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would just say, as I think I said earlier, you can definitely live with us than you think, and you should.
[39:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that could be
[39:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: clearing the junk drawer, clearing the kitchen counter, doing the entryway of your house.
[39:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just do one tackle one area today.
[39:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm constantly posting things like that on my social media, like, hey, this is one area you could get rid of, something today.
[39:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's a small win.
[39:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That builds mode of motivation in momentum to getting something done tomorrow.
[39:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's the thousand small decisions you're making in the day to day, not the one overhaul.
[40:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: decision that is likely unsustainable.
[40:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Um, so I'll said, you know, this makes me think of Gretchen Ruben's one minute rule.
[40:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you can do it one minute or less, do it then.
[40:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, no 100%.
[40:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is, I live my life with that rule and I found it to be incredibly beneficial.
[40:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So to close our conversation today, where can our listeners find you?
[40:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, if they want to hear more, they can fall along at minimalist mom's podcast on Instagram.
[40:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm minimalist mom's podcast wherever you get your podcast.
[40:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My personal account is at Diane Bowdoin.
[40:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just sure the things that I'm doing and maybe with the way that simplicity in it's in Shnani looks like in the day today.
[40:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So check me out there and I think that's it.
[40:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I have a book minimalist mom is looking at the living and parenting.
[40:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: with simplicity that released in 2021, but just a great place to start with little mantras to get you through as you navigate minimalism.
[40:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, I was going to mention your book, Congratulations, because I haven't seen you since you wrote your book.
[40:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would say, yeah, yeah, I feel like that's probably when we would have touched base.
[41:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, no, thank you.
[41:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I, I think I have one in mind for the next book, but we shall see.
[41:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm excited to be a guest on your podcast and talk about everything minimalism, all the practicalities of minimalism.
[41:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'll be great.
[41:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, that should go live mid-February.
[41:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So whoever's listening, check out Kelly over on minimal swamps podcast.
[41:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: All right, thank you so much.
[41:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Thanks so much for having me.

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