# When "Don’t Be Anxious" Isn’t Helping: A Faith-Filled Approach to Finding Peace | Melissa Fisher (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 17 Jun 2026, 25 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/5df56df9-867d-4bf7-a820-69d55068209c/stream.mp3

Do you ever find yourself replaying conversations long after they end, carrying guilt that may not belong to you, or feeling unable to quiet your mind no matter how hard you pray? In this conversation, I sit down with licensed mental health counselor Melissa Fisher to explore a question many Christians quietly wrestle with: What if anxiety isn't simply a faith problem? Drawing from both neuroscience and Scripture, Melissa unpacks why our minds and bodies respond the way they do to stress, worry, and relational tension. We discuss the hidden patterns that keep us stuck, the surprising role our thoughts play in shaping our emotions, and how faith and practical tools can work together rather than compete with one another. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Melissa's Resource: The Bible Recap • Connect with Melissa • Website • LinkedIn • Substack • Book: Jesus for the Anxious: 8 Weeks of Practicing Peace to Calm Your Worry and Fear About Melissa | Melissa Fisher is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Vancouver, Washington, working with trauma and anxiety. She has two decades of experience in Christian youth, women's, military, and young adult ministries, as well as personal work in spiritual formation. Melissa has contributed to Karen Whiting and Jocelyn Greene's Battlefields and Blessings. She and her husband, a retired military officer, enjoy traveling with their adult children and hiking in the mountains. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: For those of you that are new around here, I release bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This episode is coming from a Christian perspective.
[0:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if that's not something you're interested in, check out one of the other episodes that dropped this week or joining back to your next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
[0:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It can be very dismissive of the, just pray more or don't feel that way, which let's be real.
[0:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If we could just not feel some way, we would do that.
[0:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Everyone would be happy, I'd be out of the job and it'd be great, but that's not possible.
[0:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, I think first, she was recognizing that there is a real struggle happening for this person and just acknowledging how they feel like I'm so sorry that you're struggling with this because there's any way I can help, or it's a way I can, that we can find help together.
[0:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist moms podcast.
[0:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Do you tend to overthink the simple things?
[0:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Does relational conflict cause worry or even unnecessary guilt?
[0:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Do you have difficulty controlling your thoughts or relaxing your body?
[0:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's conversation, I sit down with licensed mental health counselor, Melissa Fisher to discuss the intersection of faith, psychology, and neuroscience when it comes to anxiety.
[1:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Drawing from both her professional experience and personal journey, Melissa shares why anxiety is not simply something we can turn off through willpower or faith alone.
[1:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We explore the difference between situational and ongoing anxiety, how our thought patterns shape our emotional experiences, and why practical skills can be just as important as spiritual practices.
[1:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I have to say, Melissa also offers a refreshing perspective on what scripture says about anxiety, helping us move away from the shame and toward a deeper understanding of God's presence in our struggles.
[1:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Quickly before we get there, if you have been enjoying the content on the minimalist mom's podcast, whether it's a regular episode, a bonus episode, one of the going deeper episode, anything at all, I'd love for you to hit five stars and be sure to subscribe to the show so that you never miss an episode.
[1:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know there's quite a bit of content that I'm putting out these days, hopefully something for everyone, so if you've been enjoying the content here, I'd love for you to hit five stars, it's a simple way to support the show, but it means so much, so thank you, thank you.
[2:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And with that, let's get into this conversation with Melissa.
[2:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We will be speaking a lot to Christians today because your book is coming from a Christian perspective.
[2:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think a lot of Christians believe that anxiety is just an internal heart habit.
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We can just pray it away.
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: How do you respond to that?
[2:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And what does scripture actually say about that?
[2:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a great question, and it's one I get frequently.
[2:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It is anxiety, sin.
[2:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The Bible says don't be anxious.
[2:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It also says don't be angry.
[2:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so recognizing that when the Bible addresses emotions, emotional content, what we should be doing instead.
[2:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, for example, it says don't be angry.
[2:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: God obviously got angry and he can't sin.
[2:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we have to assume anger's not a sin.
[2:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we just see, you just get anxious in the end times, as he times in towards the cross, as he's in that garden of get set of me.
[2:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The motions are never freeze distance in the Bible so I don't want to put something around that that doesn't exist in the Bible But they are given as context for especially with Paul like you're gonna be anxious
[3:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He says, don't be anxious, but then he begins this long list of things we can do prayer for sure.
[3:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we don't ever want to minimize the necessity for prayer.
[3:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I do mean necessity for prayer.
[3:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're giving and bringing those petitions to God.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then he gives us this great thing list of things to think about, which is important because what we think about impacts our emotions.
[3:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so phrasing anxiety is as sin, just is it biblical?
[3:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it also misses the point.
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that's what Satan wants is you want us to feel stuck in it so that we don't overcome it and what Charles especially does is he says actually these are some things you can do in it.
[3:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm really glad you clarify that because I do feel like
[3:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I do feel like there's a lot more room for that conversation than maybe there was even 10 years ago.
[3:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It felt like more of a critical examination of anxiety versus the mercy and grace that is fully accessible through Christ.
[4:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Mm-hmm.
[4:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There is, and there is a shift right now that we're staying in the church of offering more grace towards emotional issues in general, and that's definitely not an accepting of life.
[4:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is how it should always be.
[4:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We certainly don't want to encourage people to stay in their anger or their anxiety or their depression, but we want to encourage them that they're a ways to get out.
[4:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, I think we're just seeing, probably because of the internet and social media and connectivity and disconnectivity face to face, this is something that we actually have to deal with.
[4:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is a big problem, emotional, dysregulation and mental dysregulation.
[4:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is just where we're at as a society.
[4:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think if you call it maybe some of it stems from sin, but it in itself is not a sin.
[4:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And not even a sin, but just that we live in a broken world that is always going to, we're just always going to struggle.
[4:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, and so to say it stems from sin isn't
[4:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: purely in after it because sin behaviors are what lead to some of the traumas that we experience and therefore we have either trauma or anxiety depression or something like that.
[5:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so yes, but it kind of oversimplifies something and it actually points in the wrong direction of it because the emotion itself isn't the sin and if we continue to phrase it like that, we will continue to be held back and not just our emotional growth but our spiritual growth as well.
[5:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's what we're trying to help people release is moving into spiritual growth.
[5:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: in connection with very emotional growth.
[5:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[5:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I think it's important to recognize, which you do this while in your book, you blend faith in neuroscience and psychology together, as opposed to just saying, oh, just keep praying, just pray it away.
[5:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So how did you figure out how to make those all work cohesively?
[5:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, you know, if we go back to this basic, basic idea and foundation that God created everything, it's not that hard to recognize that our our sciences that we have in today's world are just informing us of what God
[6:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, psychology setting the mind, mirror science is setting really the brain more specifically.
[6:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so recognizing that these are things that God created, we can then look into those and see, okay, so then what are they informing us of?
[6:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then how does that align with what typically we already know?
[6:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How can we use this information that we're learning now in order to support and grow ourselves for the purpose of serving God, loving Him?
[6:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, proclaiming his love to others, all of that is for that purpose.
[6:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, absolutely.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think it's important to point out that there are some people that struggle with perpetual anxiety and others that just have circumstantial anxiety or situational anxiety.
[6:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Can you walk us through maybe a couple of examples for both and then why it matters and how we approach healing?
[7:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, so when you talk about a situational anxiety, really what you're talking about is a life stressor.
[7:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Something that pops up and it's something that nine out of ten people are going to feel anxious about this.
[7:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, if you think about it, it might even be ten out of ten people, but some people don't feel anxious about anything, and that's all other conditions.
[7:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But reality is, there are some things in life that all of us are going to feel anxious about,
[7:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's situational anxiety.
[7:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The situation goes away and we're able to feel better.
[7:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's how you know.
[7:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we're all gonna have those moments.
[7:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what I believe Jesus was experiencing in that garden as he was experiencing the situation of all that was about to come going into the cross.
[7:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I don't think Jesus had perpetual anxiety.
[7:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think he had situational anxiety.
[7:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That perpetual anxiety is when it becomes problematic.
[7:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so it's usually in a couple different ways, either the anxiety is more intense and it should be given a situation.
[8:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So let's say somebody cut you off on the freeway.
[8:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're going to be jumping at first, like, oh my gosh, okay, we're good.
[8:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, we're going to move on.
[8:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Wow, that was kind of scary.
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, and you get to work or somebody makes it, oh my gosh, get the complete panic attack half the pull over.
[8:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That anxiety is is a bit more extreme than necessary for that moment.
[8:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we're looking at intensity, we're looking at duration, meaning how long is that anxiety last?
[8:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so is it going beyond when that stressors we moved?
[8:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is it lasting all day long?
[8:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or you can do that all day long?
[8:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then break when sea kind of plays into that.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How often is this coming up?
[8:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Are you constantly fighting about things?
[8:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or is it just only when it comes to mind?
[8:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because someone else has talked to you.
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so you're looking at those types of symptomatic presentations in terms of that intensity, that frequency and that duration, how much it's interfering with your life, that would be problematic or what I refer to as perpetual anxiety.
[8:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I've talked to a handful of people on here recently and sometimes I just do believe until the day of Christ Jesus that we always will struggle, but we can decrease the intensity.
[9:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, so we're going to always struggle, I guess in the sense of there are always be things in this world that cause us emotional distress.
[9:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that's just the nature of like you said earlier, being in a simple world, right?
[9:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so what we can do and what I want people to have hope for is the fact that it doesn't have to completely take over your life.
[9:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's what happens when we integrate newer habits.
[9:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if we have perpetual anxiety, we have anxiety habits.
[9:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: we're used to shallow breathing.
[9:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We don't do this consciously by the way, but we shallow breathe naturally, and we get panicked easily, and we often go to those anxious thoughts, and we let them ruminate in our minds all day long.
[9:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if you think about a language I'm using, those are all habits.
[9:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so a lot of this work is re-learning habits, learning healthier ways, doing some deep breathing, healthier thoughts, like Paul Point II, and Philippians, right?
[10:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thinking about things that are true, lovely, and noble, and replacing relationship habits even and rebating healthier.
[10:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: As you build those habits in, when a future life starts to come in, it's less likely a tip over your whole life.
[10:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You'll now have some tools to get through it and recognize, okay, this is just going to be a really hard time.
[10:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have some things I can fall back on.
[10:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, not as debilitating.
[10:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In your book, you talk about rebuilding the dark, replacing what you call wooden beams with steel beams of God's truth.
[10:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love you explain that to listeners.
[10:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, I love this analogy because I think it shows how some of us end up anxiety in the first place.
[10:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: especially for those of us in first-world countries, we have way more resources than the rest of the world.
[10:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And these resources are beneficial, but they can also be problematic because we can become reliant upon them.
[11:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when we just naturally have these resources out of disposal, we don't recognize how much we're relying on them.
[11:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So then when the world tries to take away let's say our finances or our community or our education, something that we're just
[11:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We freak out way more than somebody who didn't have those resources to begin and we start to feel as if our entire world is crumbling and often comes from having
[11:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: build our dog on those foundations of things that were never met to last into heaven.
[11:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Right?
[11:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, so if I have built my dog on these wooden beams of finances or community or even marriage, which is a good thing that not not designed to be my god.
[11:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So these beams are anything that's become an idol to us where maybe without realizing it, we just set our foundation on it.
[11:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And as we remove these, the doc shakes and we feel like we're going to fall into the ocean.
[11:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But when we realize that we are actually, as we're growing in Christ, we're placing those with the steel beams of pulleys and how can you use us?
[12:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Those like problems can come.
[12:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The storm can completely overshower that deck, that dog, and so does that we want to see.
[12:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We won't feel like our cold world is falling.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's so good.
[12:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm curious to know your opinion on how our friends and the church can support someone that is struggle with struggling with anxiety.
[12:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you for asking this question.
[12:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that sometimes there's a few different responses that the church will give.
[12:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It can be very dismissive of the just praymore or don't feel that way,
[12:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Let's be real.
[12:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If we could just not feel some way, we would do that.
[12:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Everyone would be happy.
[12:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'd be out of the job and it'd be great.
[12:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But that's not possible.
[12:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: First, she was recognizing that that there is a real struggle happening for this person and just acknowledging how they feel like I'm so sorry that you're struggling with this.
[13:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like is there any way I can help?
[13:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or is there where I can, that we can find help together?
[13:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then, from the church, is starting to ask the questions about this and recognizing that
[13:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Believe it or not, the church does the church meaning the community.
[13:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: has a lot of power in this.
[13:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so just coming alongside with someone and being with them and engaging with them on a regular basis, all of that creates community.
[13:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm telling you as a therapist when I do assessments and we ask about a current support system.
[13:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I hear the client talking about the people they're connected with, the more people they're connected with.
[13:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And in real ways, I automatically know, okay, this process is going to be a lot easier than when someone has no connections.
[13:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That makes the costs much, much longer.
[13:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So,
[13:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Community, connection, and then finding a good referral base for therapy is really helpful too.
[13:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'm so glad that you spoke that.
[14:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: in a marriage relationship or one partner struggles with anxiety.
[14:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think sometimes that can, if we don't set a firm boundary with that, that can debilitate us as well.
[14:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You mean the other partner?
[14:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'm just thinking of some circumstances where someone struggles with anxiety, perpetual anxiety.
[14:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that kind of bleeds into the other person feeling anxious and like how to handle anxiety from one partner to another in a relationship.
[14:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Does that make sense?
[14:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, it does.
[14:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what you're referencing there has to do with the nervous system and the way that it interacts with other children.
[14:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, so first we have to understand that we're created by a tribe God, like three and one, right?
[14:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're created in his image.
[14:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he's already somehow relationship with each other.
[14:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't, I understand it, I just, you know, it's true.
[14:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that means we're created as relational beings.
[14:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the way God hardwired our brain was that it thrives
[14:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: depends, survives on human interaction.
[15:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So for babies who don't get that human interaction, they actually don't develop the way they should, even if all of their physical needs are met.
[15:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so knowing that, it doesn't stop as adults.
[15:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We still need to have the interaction because what happens is if there's a parent and a child, and that child becomes a step that parent ideally can con their own nervous system to the point where they can help con their child.
[15:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if somebody grows up without that interaction and out that state, they don't know how to regulate their own nervous system.
[15:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So another adult can actually trigger their nervous system.
[15:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So in those cases, both probably need a little bit of help trying to figure out how to calm their nervous system in the presence of somebody else being upset because they're just going to end up feeding off of each other.
[15:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would argue in those situations both need to do a little bit of their own more to learn to calm their nervous systems.
[15:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: that's so funny you said that because yesterday my son needed stitches he was on a log and a branch went into the side of his head so he's okay it was it was five stitches but all that to say I didn't even know when it first happened because he didn't cry he didn't really have her response he wanted to keep playing so he went to children's hospital and at the heat ended up the numb I swear I have a point here the numb being cream that was supposed to be on his head kind of fell and we didn't notice it and so they
[16:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They said we had to hit inject it and I was like oh my gosh, we're gonna have to get a shot That's a nomam and I was just in my head.
[16:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was worried and anxious But he did so good.
[16:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, it obviously did not feel good But I told the man that I was so surprised that he wasn't crying with his head being
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: being open like that.
[16:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And he was like, well, you've been so calm.
[16:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And he's like, usually the kids that are in here that have a big reaction, their parents are equally having a reaction.
[16:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So he's like, you've been very common.
[16:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm like, Oh, well, thanks.
[16:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then I just was not calm later on.
[16:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we did the appropriate right, because you still need to have a great downtime of like a mom thing, you know, my gosh, my child, but being able to be calm to
[17:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: extremely become in his presence.
[17:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That helps him, and so he's obviously picked that up from you of like, okay, Mom's come, I can be called.
[17:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, and again, I share that story just because it's curious that that was told to me yesterday in regards to the nervous system, but yeah, I think we do have to really protect we do have to protect our nervous system because we don't understand sometimes what a deficit we might be in when we're not taking care.
[17:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Even the anxiety, it's like the anxiety can just bleed into so many areas and it's not the way what you're intended to function.
[17:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're not our best selves for our kids, for our friends, for our partners.
[17:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's right.
[17:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Unfortunately, we don't get to decide where it starts and stops.
[17:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, if we are physical beings, if we are emotional mental beings, if we are relational and spiritual beings, it doesn't matter where the anxiety starts, it's going to overflow at all of areas.
[17:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, and we need to be checking all of those areas and seeing where it may be impacting at how we can make some changes.
[17:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: your book emphasizes doing over learning.
[18:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You actually say the journey prioritizes practice above information.
[18:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So how do you get readers to actually do the work?
[18:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, so each day involves a practice.
[18:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So every day that someone is reading, especially in the first few weeks, they're often at times doing more practice than they are reading.
[18:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, and that's super important, and obviously that I wanted that in there, because I know if people are just going to read something and they're going to walk away from it, the chances that they're making will change their pre-slamant.
[18:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if I could integrate that somehow, I'm going to, as a part of the reading journey process,
[18:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: then they would be able to walk away with actually having built habits over that eight weeks.
[18:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the beauty is that you don't get done with the book and then have to go do this, you get done with the book and you've spent eight weeks building new habits.
[18:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so good and so important.
[18:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's so many of us that I think can relate to taking in a non-fiction book and then just leaving it as information in our head without action.
[19:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that's super important that you included that there.
[19:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Another thing you suggest is therapy and not every author necessarily recommends that, especially I think sometimes in the Christian community, we just have this idea of like I said earlier praying it away.
[19:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So why do you think that therapy can be such an important piece to this.
[19:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it can for some, and part of it is because we don't all have the same stories and at the end of the day a book cannot replace therapy therapy is at its core of relationship and any of even from day one of training when I was doing my master's program over a decade ago.
[19:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: everything talked about how it's about the relationship between the therapist and the client.
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can do CBT, DBT, any of these multi-letter types of therapies.
[19:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And actually, there's the research I've shown over and over that it really doesn't matter what type of therapy you practice.
[19:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's how well you can connect with people because referencing our earlier conversation, the brain thrives on the person thrives on being able to connect with
[20:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is the healing part of therapy.
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can't connect with a book.
[20:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's no brain.
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's no human being there.
[20:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so at times that's a part of the human journey that we need.
[20:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when I think of recommending therapy, usually I'm referencing if there's I'm borrowing from a coworker but risk function and stuffness.
[20:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so if there's risk to themselves or the others and not even end up like risk sometimes it's just
[20:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: personal risk to themself about others as time for therapy if their level of functioning is a level where they're struggling to function in all their areas of life well It's probably time for therapy and then even if those things are in players that maybe they just feel stuck that can be a great time for therapy as well Absolutely
[20:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: As we said, in this life, we are going to struggle, where you're going to suffer, we're also going to have joy, but I think for something for someone that does struggle with anxiety after reading your book or after going through some of these processes, what does it look like to come out on the other side.
[21:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Great question.
[21:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So.
[21:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: After eight weeks of practicing this, you're going to find that you don't just have tools.
[21:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have new habits.
[21:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have a connection with Jesus along every single step, and you're going to have hope for tomorrow.
[21:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So very true.
[21:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well Melissa, where can listeners connect with you if they want to learn more and grab a copy of your book?
[21:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so it's on the major retailers is through Baker Publishing Group and Amazon and I have my website, which is Melissa FisherConsoling.com and I do have a sub-stack five minutes with Melissa, the new role five minutes with Melissa, I only first things once a month by able with those resources.
[21:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, I'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes.
[22:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then quickly as we wrap up here, I always ask my guests to final questions here at the end.
[22:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And the first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[22:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Currently, I'm using the Bible recap by Terri Lee Kabul.
[22:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's such a helpful book.
[22:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I like to reference it whenever I'm confused by something, especially right now.
[22:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm reading easy kills, so I reference it a lot.
[22:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I love that book.
[22:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's great.
[22:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, it's funny.
[22:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'll ask you, there's the devotional.
[22:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then there's the scripture.
[22:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And sometimes I'll read the scripture first and then I'll listen to the devotional and sometimes I'll listen to the devotional.
[22:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then read the scripture.
[22:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Have you found a pattern that you like?
[22:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I have the physical book, and so I made the scripture first, and the way I'm assuming you're referencing new version.
[22:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yeah, you version all that up, where you always read the devotional before the scripture, that's just the way the platform works.
[22:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But personally, I prefer to read for some of the first of like three chapters, and then I'll re-script her for a few days, and then go back to her.
[22:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I think sometimes, depending on what book you're in, yeah, I'm like, I need a little bit of an explanation here, so I kind of have an overview of what I'm reading.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, I'm going to ask him right in the Gospel of it.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he's going to know, I need to read a little bit first of where.
[23:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's the goal for us to say?
[23:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, I hear you.
[23:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: All right, well, my last question for you is what is something you can't stop talking about.
[23:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Right now, it's about the fact that we all need a village, and that certainly plays into the conversation of anxiety, but even beyond that how we were created for a village, we were created to thrive in a village, we were created to serve a village, and so my hope is that as mental health conversations continue to increase and become less shamed in our culture that people were
[23:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Melissa, I really appreciate the encouragement here.
[23:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know that a lot of people listening, gosh, what was it my pastor said?
[23:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I want to share this here at the end.
[23:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He was talking about just different struggles that we each have and he was saying that anxiety isn't a bad thing.
[23:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You just are really thoughtful and sometimes you're overthinking and so
[23:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: don't lean into the bad of that, like reframing the way that we perceive anxiety.
[24:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like we just need to hone this for good, but it is good to be thoughtful and considerate and using that anxiety in a beneficial way.
[24:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I just appreciate your wisdom as well and for joining me today.
[24:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you, Diane.
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[24:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[24:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.

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