# Sorting Through Grief: What Happens to the Stuff After a Spouse Dies | Lisa Woolery (EP457)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 29 Jul 2026, 30 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/44675ae8-74c5-422e-b981-b637ced12c48/stream.mp3

When Lisa Woolery unexpectedly lost her husband, Eric, she found herself navigating unimaginable grief while raising two children, managing overwhelming paperwork, and making countless decisions about the home and belongings they had built together. In this episode, Diane sits down with Lisa to discuss what it looks like to move forward after profound loss. Lisa shares how creating order in her home became part of her healing process - from sorting through sentimental possessions and setting boundaries around others' opinions to downsizing from a 6,700-square-foot home to a more manageable space. She offers compassionate encouragement for anyone facing loss, major life transitions, or the emotional weight of letting go. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Previous Episode: EP207: Swedish Death Cleaning: Morbid or Mandatory? with Emily McDermott • Previous Episode: Encouraging Your Aging Parents to Downsize: Secrets From a Senior Move Expert | Jeannine Bryant (EP384) • Kristen's Resource: Breville BDC650BSS Grind Control Coffee Maker With Grinder, Brushed Stainless Steel • Connect with Lisa • Website • The Widow’s Comeback 365 Day Grieving Calendar • Book: The Widow's Comeback About Lisa | After two decades as a public relations executive, Lisa was thrown into widowing without warning. Not ashamed of her many “hot messes,” she shares the challenges of rebuilding life after the desolation of losing her husband. Lisa writes with grit, humor, and raw honesty so other widows know they don’t have to be perfect in the face of grief. In The Widow’s Comeback, she dives into money, abandonment, parenting tweens, dating, self-forgiveness, and faith - offering companionship and hope for the road ahead. She lives in Kansas City, loving on her two teenagers while chasing after her three rapscallion dogs. For fun, she travels the world, plays pickleball, and reads in her cheetah-print recliner. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I also kind of felt like a lot of the memoirs didn't really show like the hot mess that one becomes when they're a widow, there's like a lot of pressure to be like perfect.
[0:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I have it handled we're okay, but.
[0:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't feel that in a lot of the memoirs I wrote, so I purposefully put in some super low points in my life because I didn't want other windows to feel like their low points in their life were.
[0:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: different or abnormal.
[0:36] \[SPEAKER_02\]: This is Diane Bowden and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: When Lisa Woolery unexpectedly lost her husband Eric, she found herself navigating unimaginable grief while raising two children managing overwhelming paperwork and making countless decisions about the home and belongings they've built together.
[0:54] \[SPEAKER_02\]: In today's episode, I sit down with Lisa to discuss what it looks like to move forward after profound loss, and Lisa shares how creating order in her home became a part of your healing process.
[1:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: From sorting through sentimental possessions and setting boundaries around others' opinions, to downsizing from a 6700 square foot home to a more manageable space.
[1:14] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you're someone that is currently facing loss, a major life transition, or the emotional weight of letting go, I hope that you walk away from this episode with some encouragement.
[1:23] \[SPEAKER_02\]: But quickly before we get there, I want to share a minimalist resource of the week with all of you.
[1:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And this is an Instagram post I found from the account, at with Ethan Lap, talking about turning the mundane into the spectacular and parenthood.
[1:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Listen to what he has to say.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I feel parenthood is just becoming really good at marketing ordinary life.
[1:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what I mean?
[1:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like you just try to turn the mundane into the spectacular.
[1:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like this morning, we wake up.
[1:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's Memorial Day.
[1:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No school.
[1:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it's pouring rain.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: 50 degrees, though.
[1:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Kids are all bummed because we can't go outside.
[1:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I said, no, no, no, no.
[1:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is actually a really good thing.
[1:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My oldest who's for is looking at me like, what are you talking about?
[1:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I said, this means we get to go do a comfy car ride.
[2:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And what's a comfy car?
[2:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I said, hold on.
[2:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You've never got a comfy car ride before as if I'm not the one that would have to do that for him.
[2:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But anyway, I said, a comfy car ride.
[2:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's where you and your sister get to go pick out your favorite blanket.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We get in the truck with no shoes on driving the rain to go get munchkins.
[2:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh my gosh, let's go!
[2:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They run, get their favorite blankets.
[2:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm carrying them up to the truck, one by one under the umbrella, getting them tucked in in the backseat, and I'm telling you, we drove around, listening to their favorite songs, they're eating their munchkins, and they just keep talking about how comfy they are.
[2:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, honestly, kids will let you turn anything into a core memory if you just commit.
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, and somewhere along the lines, like those normal moments, they become pretty spectacular to you, too.
[2:40] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I absolutely love this shift to perspective and reframing how we can take an ordinary moment and make it extraordinary for our kids if we just add a bit of whimsy.
[2:49] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So I'll be sure to include that post in the show notes if you want to listen again.
[2:52] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Then lastly, I always encourage you all if you have yet to leave a rating interview for the minimalist mom's podcast, be sure to pause, hit five stars.
[3:00] \[SPEAKER_02\]: And then if after listening, you think of a friend that could benefit from this encouragement, be sure to send it their way.
[3:05] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Thank you so much for being here.
[3:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I appreciate all of you that continue to show up week after week listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[3:11] \[SPEAKER_02\]: It's my hope that these conversations shift even something small on you to live a life with more purpose.
[3:16] \[SPEAKER_02\]: So with that said, let's get into this episode with Lisa.
[3:23] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Well, Lisa, it's wonderful to have you here.
[3:25] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I know we've been trying to connect for a while now.
[3:27] \[SPEAKER_03\]: We're going to be talking about the fact that you were unexpectedly thrown into widowhood and you had to deal with minimizing all the things and navigating the grief at the same time, everything that comes with that loss.
[3:42] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And so I'm excited to have you here to give encouragement to listeners today that might be walking through similar circumstances.
[3:48] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But before we get into it, I'd love for you just to introduce yourself.
[3:51] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You wrote a book called The Widows Come Back, but I'd love for you just to introduce yourself a little bit more.
[3:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Diane.
[3:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm excited to be here.
[4:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I became widowed very suddenly when I was 50.
[4:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like he wasn't sick or anything.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He just literally dropped dead while I was chopping broccoli for dinner.
[4:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Oh my word.
[4:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we have been married 28 years.
[4:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We had been together since I was 14.
[4:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we were each other's lives.
[4:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then when he died, I had two twins.
[4:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it was just complete shock.
[4:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I had all kinds of fun.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thanks to Tilda, like paperwork, which I am not good at.
[4:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But also his stuff.
[4:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He had so much stuff.
[4:41] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Well, so take me back to those first few days and weeks that you were going through this overwhelm.
[4:47] \[SPEAKER_03\]: How was that emotionally and physically for you?
[4:51] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Like you said with all the things we were navigating at that time.
[4:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, honestly, I don't remember, like there's so much that I don't remember.
[4:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was just such a surprise that suddenly Eric was dead.
[5:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was only 53.
[5:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then our kids were young, so we still had a couple more phases before I would be ready for widowhood.
[5:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I just know that everything was twirling and spinning.
[5:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And luckily I had some really terrific friends, one spent two weeks with me.
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and dropped me for a warm hand off at my husband's funeral to my other good friend who then took us home and helped me start the paperwork.
[5:34] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[5:35] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'm sorry.
[5:37] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's a jump from such a tragic circumstance into the decluttering.
[5:41] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I don't want to treat it lightly.
[5:42] \[SPEAKER_03\]: but you are here to encourage listeners that may be navigating similar circumstances or just as they mentally prepare to do this one day.
[5:50] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I think that I have a few episodes on downsizing and death cleaning and I think that we we just don't realize the burden of the things while we're trying to
[6:03] \[SPEAKER_03\]: in that your husband was more of a pack ride.
[6:06] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Did you feel like you were prepared to deal with this thing because you had less of an attachment to them?
[6:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Tell me about that experience.
[6:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[6:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, when we first got married we had a two bedroom apartment and it was really evident early on that he needed space for his things.
[6:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's sort of how our marriage grew is he had dedicated space where he could keep his things and then the rest of the house belonged to me.
[6:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: By the time he died, we had his 6,700 square foot house with these huge rooms in the basement where he kept a lot of his stuff.
[6:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He also had an office.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: He also had his own room.
[6:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We had our own room.
[6:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I was really used to having the family home be kind of normal and then his things be dedicated to his spaces.
[6:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And he was an elected official.
[7:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he had a lot of
[7:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: papers that he was always going through that kind of thing, but he was also a CPA.
[7:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So he have all these piles that nobody could really interpret.
[7:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But my best friend did go through and clean out all this stuff.
[7:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, it was kind of weird to actually go and see like a clean office and I'm like, what did you do with the things?
[7:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, well, I threw most of it away.
[7:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And as it turned out, I never needed any of that.
[7:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that was good.
[7:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so those first days and weeks, my best friend sort of attached herself to how I dealt with Eric's things.
[7:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't want it flooding my space.
[7:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then she sort of gave me permission and provided an example of these things are an important to me moving forward.
[7:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's okay to get rid of them.
[7:53] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'd love to just pause right here and ask you how clutter shows up after someone dies, just beyond the stuff.
[8:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we had moved from Southern California to Kansas City for a lifestyle change eight months before Eric died.
[8:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I quit corporate america and i was going to start writing and i had just this cute little office and pretty soon the office just became cluttered with death stuff like so much paperwork and then i had piles.
[8:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And folders and over the months as things became resolved, some of those things went away, but there are actually a couple things that I still haven't concluded and it's been six and a half years and
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So my little space where I had my happy fun writing just became like poisons with this new death paperwork clutter.
[8:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I actually just closed the doors and didn't go in there anymore.
[9:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'd say a year maybe if after he died maybe six, eight months.
[9:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know what the timeframe was.
[9:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I got this spark where I wanted to study memoirs and I wanted to maybe write my own memoir.
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so.
[9:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I took over another little space in the house and created my writing space there and my little cute office stayed closed for a long time and even after I opened it and cleaned out all of the death papers.
[9:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I had to like redo the room entirely so that I could find, I don't know, piece or fun sway or whatever in that place again.
[9:42] \[SPEAKER_03\]: When you think back to that season, outside of your office, that had become, I'll use the word tainted for lack of a better word with,
[9:50] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Again, all the grief that you're managing and everything that comes with sudden loss when you think back to that season was there a space in your home that felt especially hard to face and what helped you eventually approach it differently or let it go again outside of your office.
[10:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: While my husband's bedroom was tough, it was a big room with a big closet, a big bathroom, and immediately my son moved into there, and it just became a place that I could barely walk into, because first of all it had like,
[10:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the iced tea glass with the iced tea in it that my husband had been drinking the night before he died and his book that he had been reading was sitting there and then in and amongst all the things was my son and I just felt like
[10:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: for my own mental health.
[10:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I couldn't even walk in because it was just such a place of clutter.
[10:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I just wasn't sure what it was like for my son's mental health, but I do know that everyone is different.
[10:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like having the things around him was comforting to him.
[10:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For me, it was not comforting.
[11:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I did what any mom would do.
[11:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I started to clean it out while he was at school.
[11:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so just slowly, subtly like every day, I'd work for like 15 or 20 minutes.
[11:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And at one point, my son noticed, and he's like, mom wear a dot's clothes.
[11:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And actually like he had this wonderful
[11:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: collection of very expensive ties and I sold them because our assets were all frozen for three months.
[11:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I needed money.
[11:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I did take some of his things and sell him, but then I got some bins and I put them downstairs and one of Eric's rooms and I said, I'm putting dad things in here.
[11:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when you want them, you can have them, but for now we need to clean up.
[11:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I sold some shirts and some other things and then I kept some things and so that was that like the first hard thing that I tackled on my own.
[12:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Did you have a feel an internal or maybe external pressure to handle your husband's blogging the right way?
[12:07] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Because I think that there's there can be a lot of pressure from maybe his family members or again maybe your children.
[12:14] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Here's to how you navigated the decision to keep release or wait when letting things go.
[12:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, a lot of people have a lot of opinions and I had to learn early on that my opinion was the one that mattered and of course to take input from my kids and so at several times on our journey like one when I was doing his room and then when we moved later
[12:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My thing always became, we can't keep all of this stuff, but what do you want?
[12:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Go in there and take what you want.
[12:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So my daughter, she's still wear some of his t-shirts.
[12:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My son has some things of his that, like he wears his watch.
[12:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When my son got his first job, he signed his papers with his dad's pen.
[13:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So what I tried to do was like curate some things because they even say, I don't want that stuff yet.
[13:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't want to lose it.
[13:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Although occasionally I will say, do you want to go in the box and take something if they're having a really hard time?
[13:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I tried to just like curate beautiful things.
[13:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I took cuff links and I'd saved a couple ties.
[13:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I took some of his pens and just like things that would be special that somebody could use later in life and remember like this was my dad's.
[13:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I do have a couple of friends who kept shrines and that's fine for them, but I needed a tidy place and I needed to take some of the things away.
[13:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I wasn't seeing them every day and we could move forward.
[13:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that's why I kind of use the word curate.
[13:57] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Did the physical clutter contribute to feeling stuck in grief?
[14:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I mean, obviously, with a sudden loss or any loss, the grief is always remaining.
[14:06] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's just we build a life around it.
[14:09] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And so I'm just curious to know, again, how you begin to navigate your own grief aside from the things, but did the things contribute to keeping you stuck there?
[14:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The things did, well, I should say, certain things did like the way certain things were.
[14:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My husband loved to cook and he like had every single little extra appliance or extra special knife or whatever.
[14:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I remember like the maybe day after a couple days after he died, I was having trouble closing a drawer because he had all these silk pads that he is in baking.
[14:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was talking about and I just broom in the trash and got this big tantrum and then I look up and my best friend is sitting there watching me and she's like, wow, I bet you feel better now and I'm like, I do and I'm cleaning up this stuff.
[15:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I like went through the drawers and I cleaned out a lot of things.
[15:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it felt so much better to have a kitchen where the counters were available and the drawers weren't stopped and it was this went here and this went here and so.
[15:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It felt really good for me to just get rid of that and just have a more orderly life lifestyle.
[15:30] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Five years after your husband's death, you moved homes, how did that move change your relationship with his belongings and how does your home feel today compared to then?
[15:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, absolutely.
[15:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I have like a pot stand in my kitchen that has all of his locker says.
[15:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have on my book shelves.
[15:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have like some of his pens.
[15:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have the Preppy Handbook that was his favorite book in high school.
[15:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I have like his year books in mine like on the very top shelf stock.
[16:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So my kids can at any time go and like learn about
[16:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: us some weird kid.
[16:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'll use the word again.
[16:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I curated special things and they're all around the house and I love them and I see them and it makes me feel good, but I also don't feel like he's looming like because somebody could walk into my house and they wouldn't even really.
[16:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: see things of erics.
[16:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have a couple of his pictures up so they would notice that.
[16:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But they wouldn't notice that the pot stand.
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like sometimes I just look at it in smile and I and I love those days when he was using all those pots and sometimes I just I will get out one of his pens and like I edited my book with one of his pens.
[16:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So to me, I
[16:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's it's just little things that are around that make me smile and I don't feel like it brings a waves to my household like all these pictures of yesterday, kind of thing.
[17:08] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Before we get into your book, I'd love to just ask you for someone that feels overwhelmed by stuff right now, whether from loss, transition, or simply too much.
[17:17] \[SPEAKER_03\]: What would you say is a gentle first step that they can take to reclaim a little breathing room?
[17:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Go into a room and choose five things and take them out and put them somewhere safe.
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then get a friend to help you.
[17:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: with all of the things that you don't really ever need again.
[17:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the things that make it so clattery and the things that fill up your mind.
[17:45] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'm curious to know a little bit more about your move.
[17:47] \[SPEAKER_03\]: As you said, you were living in 6,000 square feet at the time and then flash forward, you've condensed to what, like, around 2,000 square feet.
[17:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: 2,000, well, we went from 6,700 to 2,700.
[18:00] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So yeah, I'd love for you to provide any tips on how to do that and how to decluttering, knowing how to narrow down what you wanted to take into this new space.
[18:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, so a lot of times the house becomes something that isn't positive anymore.
[18:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so a lot of widows or divorce people or people who are cleaning out someone's things have to find any space.
[18:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That could be really scary, but it's also very freeing.
[18:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we had just this ridiculously huge house and my husband had proper stuff and just so much stuff down in the basement.
[18:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I had cleared his stuff out by this time.
[18:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was five years.
[18:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it was just like all in those closet.
[18:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when we moved, I knew that I was gonna have to go through.
[19:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So my realtor helped me, but the kids' rooms had so much stuff that their dad had given them because they couldn't come home from the grocery store without a trinket.
[19:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I didn't want to take that with me and I didn't want them to have to have the burden of all of the stuff.
[19:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So what I did is I gave them each five boxes.
[19:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I said, hey, what you can fit in these boxes you can take and I knew I was going to be buying new socks for them or whatever, you know, it works really well.
[19:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They both so at the time they were like 15 and 17 and my son wasn't doing as boxes and I'm like, why and he's like, I don't know how so I went downstairs and
[19:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: we made piles.
[19:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We made a pile of, get rid of, we made a pile of maybe and then we made a pile of yes.
[19:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we took the yes things and put them in the boxes.
[19:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then the maybe things suddenly became not as important.
[20:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I also told them, you know, you've got your five boxes, but if you need more space, you can come and talk to me and we'll discuss it.
[20:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then my daughter was having some trouble with something she had these shelves with all of her little trinkets on it.
[20:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she's like, I don't want to throw anything away that daddy gave me.
[20:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I said, okay, well, let's talk about it.
[20:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we went through each trinket.
[20:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm like, what is this?
[20:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she would say what it was.
[20:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was like, is it important?
[20:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like,
[20:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: does it have a link to that or was it just on yourself?
[20:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we really weeded out a lot of junk that way.
[20:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So they've got some nice things, but I just really tried to give them some boundaries that were they were tough, but I also had love behind them.
[20:49] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Absolutely.
[20:50] \[SPEAKER_03\]: No, I know that that is again with the people that I've spoken to it is so hard to decide like what to keep and what to let go of.
[20:58] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And I always just come back to the item as a representation of a memory.
[21:03] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's not the memory itself.
[21:05] \[SPEAKER_03\]: and yet I do have little trinkets around my house that I'm like no but this item is so special to me.
[21:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So yeah, I'm nearing that down.
[21:11] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I just appreciate that advice because I know like I said someone's listening that is navigating this loss in their life as well and so I think that is really important for them to hear.
[21:30] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So shifting into your book, the widows come back.
[21:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Can you just give a brief overview of what the story is about?
[21:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, I wrote the widows come back.
[21:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a memoir of the first two years after my husband died.
[21:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm a reader.
[21:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when he died, I really looked for memoirs.
[21:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I could share in other people's stories and journeys.
[21:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I could know that I was going to be OK. And so that's why I wanted to write it.
[22:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: didn't really show like the hot mess that one becomes when they're a widow.
[22:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I felt like there's a lot of pressure to be like perfect.
[22:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, I have it handled.
[22:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We're okay, but
[22:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I didn't feel that in a lot of the memoirs I wrote.
[22:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I purposefully put in some super low points in my life because I didn't want other windows to feel like they their low points in their life were different or abnormal.
[22:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really tried to put in some funny things too and I want people to have like a mentor or to see somebody who survived this awful time and came out on the other end happy and okay so that's why I wrote the book and that's what it's about yeah well when you think about that for years now what did coming back look like for you maybe at home and your daily rhythms and in your mindset.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In my mindset a lot coming back to me meant finding a life that can be fulfilling and happy and that I can be like peaceful in my body and that my kids can be okay and how I did that is most days I took a step forward.
[23:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: pretty soon, you've gone so many steps.
[23:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I didn't try to just wake up one morning like you here, January 1st, new year, new me.
[23:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Instead, I tried to see something that I wanted to try, and I would try it, or I would see something that wasn't working, and I would do something else.
[23:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or I would just get up in the morning.
[23:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And tend to my kids and do life.
[23:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's what coming back really meant to me.
[23:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so now here I am six and a half years later, I get to write, I get to see my kids being successful.
[24:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I would have never thought I could get here in the beginning.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_03\]: absolutely.
[24:07] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I do think that showing real authentic grief the low moments is really important.
[24:14] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Like you said, you were searching for other people's stories to help you just feel not alone.
[24:20] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And I think it's so important that there are writers willing to put that on paper and put that out into the universe because it just is so necessary.
[24:29] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I have not personally experienced
[24:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: grief like that in my life though I know I know we all do but yeah just with any circumstance that's been heavy like finding other examples to lean into has been really helpful so I love that you have put this out.
[24:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Well, Lisa, did you have anything else that you wanted to share with the listeners before we wrap up, any word of encouragement?
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I, I'd actually do.
[24:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just remember this.
[24:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when you're cleaning up, you're going to find some things that are hard to let go of and I remember my husband's first briefcase.
[25:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I came to that and I saw it.
[25:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just set it aside and then the next day I was like, okay, we don't need this.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I took it out to the trash can and I said, Eric, do you remember this?
[25:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I told this funny joke, because it was a briefcase and he we used to wear
[25:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: briefs.
[25:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I put his briefs in it one day.
[25:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when he got to work, his underwear was in it.
[25:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I shared that memory with myself and with him.
[25:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I said it's time for this to go and then I threw away.
[25:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I did that with a couple of things that worked tough.
[25:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just decided that I would say goodbye to them.
[25:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I would have a memory with Eric.
[25:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that was a way that I could let go of something and some of the emotion too.
[25:51] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
[25:53] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Again, I can't imagine how hard that still is even in those moments.
[25:58] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Like it does give you some peace and self soothing to speak it out loud, and to Marie condo says, like we go through our homes and when we let go of things, like we thank them for what they have done for us, and then we let them go.
[26:12] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And I just think that that is how you interpreted that in that moment.
[26:16] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So thanks for sharing that.
[26:18] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah, well, Lisa, where can listeners connect with you if you're willing to share more with them on social media or where can they grab a copy of your book?
[26:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I'm on Amazon, so the widows come back or you can look up Lisa Willary.
[26:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I have a website called the widows come back.
[26:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I have resources there, and I do it newsletter, and I talk about decluttering sometimes, and I talk about other widow things.
[26:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then I'm on Facebook and Instagram at the widows come back.
[26:50] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Well, I'll be sure to link that all on the show notes.
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Again, thanks for sharing.
[26:53] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So, Vulnerably with the listeners, I know.
[26:55] \[SPEAKER_03\]: This is not easy sharing about it even six years later.
[26:58] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I can see by the emotion that you're experiencing right now.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So I do appreciate you sharing it with the listeners.
[27:03] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I know it will be an encouragement but quickly here before we wrap up.
[27:06] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'd love to just have you answer these two rapid fire questions at the end.
[27:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: First one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you would like to share with the listeners.
[27:14] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And this doesn't have to be in regards to what we talked about today.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Anything.
[27:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, well, I would say my Bible reading my Bible regularly puts me in touch with God who is like really the only source of power after my husband died.
[27:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't I no longer have someone to solve problems with or to be with so to be with God works.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Amen to that.
[27:41] \[SPEAKER_03\]: My last question for you is what is something that you can't stop talking about.
[27:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I can't stop talking about books like I'm a total biblio file.
[27:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm a basically a minimalist in my life, but I have so many books, but they're all neatly shoved.
[27:54] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, now you can see minor back behind me.
[27:58] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'm minimalist and when it comes to
[28:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: are you wanting to write again?
[28:03] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Are you writing to write me something else?
[28:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yes, I actually have a trilogy in the works.
[28:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's about three women whose husband's die in a plane crash and how they each walk their widow journey.
[28:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I finished the first book itself at the editors and I'm starting the next one next month.
[28:20] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Oh, really exciting.
[28:21] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Well, thank you.
[28:22] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You should send me an email when those are live.
[28:24] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'll go back and put those in the show notes for listeners.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I'll just update the show notes, but yeah Lisa, thanks so much for sharing again.
[28:30] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I really appreciate you being so transparent today.
[28:33] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So I appreciate it.
[28:35] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Thank you very much.
[28:37] \[SPEAKER_02\]: What did you think of the episode?
[28:39] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[28:41] \[SPEAKER_02\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[28:59] \[SPEAKER_02\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[29:12] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with plus.

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