# Your Brain Is Designed to Regain Weight - Here’s How to Outsmart It | Susan Peirce Thompson (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 18 May 2026, 33 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/46c745ec-3bea-4e3b-aa29-cabd1ca8c38d/stream.mp3

What if lasting health has less to do with willpower - and more to do with identity, environment, and the systems we create around ourselves? In today's episode, I’m joined by Susan Peirce Thompson to discuss her new book, Maintain: The Three Identity Shifts that Turn Temporary Weight Loss into Lasting Freedom, and the deeper realities behind lasting behavior change. Susan shares her personal history with addiction, obesity, and creating Bright Line Eating, while explaining why long-term weight struggles are often rooted more in brain chemistry and hormones than willpower alone. Together, we explore food addiction, habit formation, emotional coping, the overstimulation of modern life, and the three identity shifts Susan believes are necessary for sustainable freedom. We also discuss the role of ultra-processed foods, leptin resistance, GLP-1 medications, and what it looks like to pursue health from a place of intention rather than obsession. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Susan's Resource: FocusMate | Stickk Contract • Connect with Susan: • Website • Bright Line Eating • Instagram • Book: Maintain: The Three Identity Shifts that Turn Temporary Weight Loss into Lasting Freedom About Dr. Susan Peirce Thompson| Susan Peirce Thompson, Ph.D. is an expert in the psychology of eating and a recovering addict herself, bringing personal insight and lived experience to the field of Food Addiction. Her own journey through addiction — first to drugs and alcohol, and later to food - has profoundly shaped her life’s work. Dr. Thompson holds a Ph.D. in Brain and Cognitive Sciences from the University of Rochester, where she focuses her research on the neuroscience of self-regulation, weight loss, and Food Addiction. She also has a strong academic background in cognitive psychology, having taught at the university level for many years. Professionally, Susan is best known as the founder and CEO of Bright Line Eating®, a global movement that has helped hundreds of thousands of people achieve sustainable weight loss and food freedom. Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: For those of you that are new around here, I released bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience, so if this content is something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episodes that drop this week or join me back here next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can't actually outsmart the brain.
[0:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If the brain is decided that you need to weigh 250 pounds, you can't actually outsmart the brain.
[0:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you've got to figure out how to get on the hook, essentially, to trick your brain or to coax your brain into allowing you to lose that weight.
[0:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[0:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What if lasting health has less to do with willpower and more to do with identity, environment, and the systems we create around ourselves?
[0:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's episode, I'm joined by Susan Pierce Thompson to discuss her new book, Maintain, the three identity shifts that turn temporary weight loss into lasting freedom, and the deeper realities behind lasting behavior change.
[0:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Susan shares her personal history with addiction, obesity, and creating bright-line eating, while explaining why long-term weight struggles are often rooted more in brain chemistry and hormones than will power alone.
[1:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Together we explore food addiction, habit formation, emotional coping, the overstimulation and modern life, and the three identity shifts that Susan believes are necessary for sustainable freedom.
[1:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We also discussed the role of ultra-process foods, leptin resistance, GLP1 medications, and what it looks like to pursue health from a place of intention, rather than obsession.
[1:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Quickly before we get there, if you've been enjoying the minimalist mom's podcast, make sure you hit five stars, tell me your favorite episode, or your favorite guest.
[1:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And as always, share the episode with a friend that could benefit.
[1:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I appreciate your support in all areas, especially showing up here week after week.
[1:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So thank you, thank you.
[1:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And with that, let's get into this bonus episode with my guest, Dr. Susan Pierce Thompson.
[1:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're going to be talking about your new book, maintain the three identity shifts that turn temporary weight loss into lasting freedom.
[2:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Quickly before we get there, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the listeners?
[2:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, yeah, hi, everybody.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm Dr. Susan Pierce Thompson.
[2:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, oh, I mean, I don't know how deep into it to go, but I ended up in this profession because I struggled with my weight myself.
[2:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And before I struggled with my weight, I struggled with drugs.
[2:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So my background is actually addiction.
[2:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I started using drugs when I was 14.
[2:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Got really addicted, dropped out of high school, turned to prostitution, ended up on crack cocaine.
[2:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I got clean and sober when I was 20.
[2:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and haven't had a drink or a drug in 31 years.
[2:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And my addiction jumped right over to food.
[2:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I started eating addictively gaining weight by my mid-20s.
[2:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was struggling with clinical obesity.
[2:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, but professionally and academically, after I stopped using drugs, I was able to function much better.
[2:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I went to community college and then transferred to UC Berkeley and did great there and started studying the mind and the brain, got a PhD in brain and cognitive sciences, and became a psychology professor.
[3:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when I was 28 years old, I did end up losing all my excess weight.
[3:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I learned kind of a pretty different way to eat and it worked for me.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I started unpacking the psychology and neuroscience of that and how that worked.
[3:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that turned into the program called Brightline Eating that I started in 2014.
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so that's basically my story.
[3:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Wow, I'm sure we could take many different paths through your story.
[3:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's all just very fascinating.
[3:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I do think that it's pretty common.
[3:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm sure that you've seen this in your studies to take one addiction and just put it into the next thing.
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because for me personally, I feel like I've had all of the above.
[3:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just look back over my life.
[3:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm like, oh, this just turned into that and that just turned into this.
[3:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: from you with eating, it was restricting, and then benching.
[4:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's called cross addiction, and when you strip some dopamine away from the brain, it tries to find it somewhere else.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that makes sense.
[4:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, we're going to be talking about how will power isn't necessarily the problem here when it comes to weight loss.
[4:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You say that most people don't regain weight because they quote unquote fell off their wagon.
[4:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They regain it because their brains are doing exactly what they're evolved to do.
[4:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So what are you suggesting that we're getting wrong about weight loss?
[4:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So many things.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, the willpower issue is really interesting.
[4:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The brain does not support willpower on call.
[4:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It just doesn't.
[4:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The part of the brain that allows us to reign in temptations.
[4:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's called the anterior singular cortex.
[4:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it is a part of the brain that is taxed by modern living, by making decisions, checking email, driving in traffic, and getting emotionally, you know,
[4:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: sort of taxed and also little kids or any age kids really like the being a mom and having kids is frustrating sometimes and there's a lot of restraint that happens not lashing out of them the way that our you know minds might want us to and that taxes the inter-singulate cortex and now suddenly we're ordering a pizza when we know
[5:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: will power won't show up for us consistently.
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we have to find a way of eating that will work even without consistent willpower on call.
[5:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the solution is to automate your eating.
[5:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So in the same way that we will often brush our teeth before bed, even if we're in a mood, even if we're sick, even if our kids are getting on our last nerve or it was especially hard getting them through their bedtime routine will still brush our teeth.
[5:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That actually isn't
[5:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: an automaticity and routine because that's just what we do before bed and you can actually set up your eating so that you're eating that way too so that you're you know instead of ordering a pizza you're just you know frustrated but you're pulling out the salad ingredients and you're throwing it into the bowl and you're getting things together to eat the meal that you eat routinely the same way you would brush your teeth.
[6:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: for someone that feels like they failed over and over again, how might that reframe bring a sense of relief to them and motivation that they can lose weight?
[6:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, people are failing over and over again because their brain is hijacked by the modern food environment.
[6:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I mean literally taken over, taken over.
[6:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And in the same way that you couldn't succeed through effort, if the task was to hold your breath,
[6:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: while running up 100 flights of stairs.
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's no amount of wanting to be able to do that that would make you successful.
[6:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can't actually outsmart the brain.
[6:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If the brain is decided that you need to weigh 250 pounds, you can't actually outsmart the brain.
[7:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, you've got to figure out how to get unhooked, essentially, to trick your brain or to coax your brain into allowing you to lose that weight.
[7:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: GLP ones will help with that, and Brayline Eating will help with that as well.
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a hormonal thing.
[7:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a set point thing.
[7:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, you know, there's things going on in the brain like leptin resistance, where, you know, the signal to the brain that you've got enough fat on you, enough adipose tissue to survive, comes from leptin, as your fat cells get a little fatter, they release this hormone called leptin, leptin actually means thin.
[7:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's leptose, which is Greek for thin.
[7:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It is the hormone that keeps animals thin.
[7:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's the reason that you don't see deer in the wild ever fat.
[7:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: ever, ever, ever, ever.
[7:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You've never seen a fat deer.
[7:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, that's because leptin is as soon as they get a little bit fat, like 1% the increase in leptin comes back, circulates back to the brain to shut off the desire to eat anymore after that.
[8:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it keeps them at a perfect.
[8:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: weight.
[8:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And our leptin is working in the sense that as we get fatter, our cells are releasing more leptin, that's working.
[8:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's not working is that the brain can't see it anymore.
[8:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's being blocked at the brain.
[8:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when the brain thinks there's no leptin, it thinks that you're amaciated, and it thinks that you're starving to death.
[8:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's going to drive you to eat.
[8:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is why we've got this weird kind of
[8:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: phenomenon where people are eating a full dinner and then sitting down on the couch eating more food.
[8:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now they're eating popcorn.
[8:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now they're eating ice cream.
[8:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This insatiable hunger is the hallmark of leptin resistance.
[8:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you're not going to be able to convince a brain to let you starve to death.
[8:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It won't work.
[8:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It won't just like you can't hold your breath and run up a hundred flights of stairs.
[8:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you've got to solve that leptin resistance.
[8:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the only way to solve left-in resistance is to get your blood work right, essentially, to get your insulin down, your triglycerides down, and your inflammation down.
[9:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Those are the three things that are causing the blockage at the brain of left-in, the left-in resistance.
[9:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Insulin triglycerides and inflammation.
[9:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when you start to do something like bright line eating,
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: which is a program that I created.
[9:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You eat in such a way that you correct that.
[9:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now suddenly the brain knows that you're not starving to death and it's not driving you to eat that way.
[9:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's one of the things that was really helpful to me to cut down at nighttime snacking was to make sure that I had a sufficient amount of protein at dinner to where I truly feel so full.
[9:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm kind of at the mindset, I'm six feet tall, so I try to do like 2,000 to 2,500 calories a day, roughly like in my head, I can kind of know.
[9:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I try to do like 800 calorie meals twice a day, maybe with one snack.
[9:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm really getting full, and then I'm at hungry after dinner.
[9:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: opting into what you're suggesting regarding the way our brain takes in the nutrition?
[10:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think you are a bit.
[10:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, I think that for one thing, protein, adequate, like a good amount of protein is one of the things that convinces the brain to lower the adiposity set point, to allow you to not carry so much excess weight.
[10:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The other one that is a big deal is actually the reward value of your diet overall.
[10:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And by reward value, I mean kind of how sexy it is right if you think of like a burger and fries in a milkshake has a way higher reward value than a bowl of brown rice and broccoli and tofu right especially without sauce
[10:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So reward value is the higher the processing, the sugar, the flour, the fat, the grease, the more of that stuff, the higher the reward value.
[10:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the high reward value of our modern food environment is driving up the out of possibly set point of our bodies for sure.
[11:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So what I teach people to do is to strip the sugar and the flour out of their diet.
[11:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you strip out sugar and flour, you pretty much
[11:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: reduce the reward value by 90 percent.
[11:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You lower it way down.
[11:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The data says that across long-term weight loss studies, over 80% of lost weight is regained within five years.
[11:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Again, you say this isn't a willpower problem, but how can we better keep that off?
[11:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Are there tangible things that we can do?
[11:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Obviously, your book has three identity shifts that turn that temporary weight loss into lasting freedom.
[11:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not sure if you want to take this time to just briefly explain those three shifts.
[11:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm going to leave some mystery for the listeners to grab a copy of your book,
[11:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I'm happy to explain the three chefs.
[11:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want people to know about them.
[11:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that, you know, it's a service to help people understand that the way we think about maintenance is not real or helpful or productive at all.
[11:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's very much, I say this in the introduction to the book.
[12:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's very much akin to how,
[12:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: romantic comedy movies, uh, train us to think about love and romance and marriage, right?
[12:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: As if, you know, the hard part is scouring the earth for the right person and there's some reason that you can't quite get together, but then you meet in the train station and you kiss and then the credits roll as if it's going to just be easy after that.
[12:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: right you haven't even gotten married and lived a life together and raised kids together right it's not just going to be easy after that the marriage is the hard part the marriage is the real part the courtship is fine and it's fun but it's in the same way we have this.
[12:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: romantic notion about weight loss that the hard part is to lose the weight and then you'll just be fine after that that maintenance is not a thing that after that you're just going to go back it you can get down to go away and go have a nice cream sunday to celebrate and you'll be fine after that no actually maintenance is is the harder part not that it's harder but it's a
[13:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And in the same way that anyone who's been married, you know, 10, 20 or 30 years knows that staying married is a thing, keeping that weight off as a thing.
[13:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So let's talk about it.
[13:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Identity was first and foremost, the first identity shift is you've got to be devoted, devoted.
[13:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're not dieting, right?
[13:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're like a vegetarian, someone who has the identity of someone who doesn't eat meat.
[13:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Whatever your plan is, whether it's Weight Watchers and CrossFit or a GLP1 plus tracking your protein and my fitness pal, plus yoga, plus whatever your program is, you've got to become like you said.
[13:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Your plan is like two meals a day, plus a stack, lots of protein, you know, you have a plan.
[13:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You've got to be devoted to it.
[13:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that means you're not starting over on January 1st.
[13:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you're not dieting, there's nothing short-term about this, and you're also not completely abandoning it on a Disney cruise or something, right?
[14:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You actually are someone who eats this way, right?
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's the first identity shift.
[14:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, you know, I think it's important to recognize how predictable your brain is when it comes to food, food addictive foods and to factor that in.
[14:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There might be some foods that aren't going to work in your plan if you can't ever eat them in moderate quantities, right?
[14:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The second shift is about, okay, well, as you try to become devoted to eating a certain way, you're going to really quickly come up against things you used to eat over.
[14:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Emotions, right, celebratory occasions, the Disney crews, right, all these things, right?
[14:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So now you have to be a resource.
[14:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You have to be someone who does their inner work.
[14:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Someone who has coping tools and strategies beyond food for when life gets really lifey.
[14:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: right you've got to be resourced and that might mean okay now you have a meditation practice it might mean you do a gratitude list at night it might mean you're in therapy right it might mean all kinds of things there's lots of ways to be resourced both in you know a sort of micro way did a day what
[15:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What are you going to do right now instead of eat and yell it yell at your partner right like you've got to have something else to do in there and then also the bigger thing of like how are you processing your lifetime trauma how are you actually grappling with your emotional world writ large right the big part.
[15:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's, you've got to become resource because people are using food using food to celebrate, to deal with boredom, to deal with stress, right?
[15:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so when you stop doing that, you've got to have other things to do.
[15:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then the third one is really interesting.
[15:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You would think that people who've been dieting their whole life have had a weight struggle or a food struggle their whole life would be so glad to walk off into the sunset and leave it behind.
[16:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But actually what I've found,
[16:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: working with literally tens of thousands of people around the world, is that, you know, bright-line eating works really well.
[16:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I can solve this problem for them, and they will take it back.
[16:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They will take it back.
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Why?
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well.
[16:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It turns out that if someone's had a chronic food struggle, they are often spending 50 to 70% of their focus on life energy on their food and their weight and their exercise and what they've eaten or not eaten and whether they're on their plan or off their plan.
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the losing weight in the regaining of the weight is a whole cycle that they've done so many times.
[16:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They may not even realize how much of the real estate of their mental bandwidth that has taken over, but it has, right, a lot of it.
[16:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now, the people who are liberated, who literally have solved that problem, left it behind to their embryo and eating or they're doing whatever they're on a, they're on a GLP one and doing whatever, whatever it is that they're doing.
[17:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Their program is now taking 15, 20% of their focus and bandwidth.
[17:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So 50% to 70% versus 15 to 20% is a big difference.
[17:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you might think, well, that's awesome.
[17:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would love to have all that time and focus back.
[17:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But actually, if deep down your scared that if you really looked at your marriage, you might find that you needed to leave deep down if you know that you never developed a career
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: full fills and satisfies your capacities and yournings, right?
[17:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you've got adult kids that you're estranged from now and that's really painful for you, whatever it is that, you know, food has numb due from, right?
[17:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It actually might be easier to keep the food and weight problem alive.
[17:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And some people do that even after losing a hundred hundred and fifty pounds,
[17:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: they just keep the last 10 pounds alive, right?
[17:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so their focus can be, oh, I ate a big restaurant meal.
[17:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm two pounds up.
[18:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now I need to spend the week losing it, you know, and they're tinkering and obsessing with their food and their weight still in this last little bandwidth, or they're literally gaining their weight back and then needing to lose it again as a whole project.
[18:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the third identity shift is to actually be liberated.
[18:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to leave the food in the waste struggle behind, to move on with your life, and let grocery shopping and food prep take 15% of your focus and no more.
[18:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I struggled with any sort of it may have even started like it's 17 years old in a sense because I was just eating in such abundance and not being intentional about it.
[18:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I say it's my biggest regret in life and I've made some mistakes and I still look back and I feel like it was such wasted energy that was focused on self.
[18:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think a big part of it is looking in the mirror and saying, am I going to continue to have exert all this energy on myself when there's work to be done with my marriage and my relationships with my kids, in my career, in my hobbies and my passion, it just seems like such a waste.
[19:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so if you can even reframe it in that way of like, what am I going to
[19:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What could a better productive use of my time that isn't so self-indulgent?
[19:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was really helpful to me because I didn't want to be that way.
[19:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't want to be consumed with self.
[19:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I under, I get it.
[19:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is coming from someone truly for 12 years that struggled in a such a way.
[19:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, I don't know if you want to speak to that.
[19:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I think that's so wise and true and right and I have felt the same way.
[19:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have given enough of my life to food and weight like I'm done.
[19:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm done giving it my life.
[19:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No.
[19:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[19:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I never thought I could be someone that eats to fuel my body.
[19:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I will say I did want to push back a little bit or just play devil's advocate with you because for someone that did struggle with restriction, taking something like a bullest spaghetti off the table, I might throw some mushrooms in there and some more ground beef in there for me.
[19:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But that used to be like an off limit, food for me for such a long time.
[19:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So now it's like, I'm not so much all or nothing.
[20:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I am curious to know for people that have struggled with that restrictive mentality, if it's okay to have things that are completely off the table.
[20:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think that's an important question, Dan, and it's a really, really nuanced one.
[20:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I actually published a paper in Frontiers and Psychiatry this year last year, recently, in the last six months, that is about,
[20:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the nuances of using the concept of abstinence, in treatment for people with a history of eating disorders or a current eating disorder, because it doesn't work for some people, it does work for others, it works in certain ways, at certain times for others, it's very, very nuanced.
[20:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And,
[20:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, I think that really knowing ourselves deeply and well and honoring ourselves is such an important lifetime journey.
[20:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think it's really, gosh, it's one of the lynchpins and abstinence from certain things.
[21:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: is really empowering for certain people at certain times, right?
[21:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, you know, you're smoking two packs a day.
[21:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The lung cancer diagnosis comes in.
[21:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You might really want to have a zero puffs of zero cigarettes policy as opposed to some sort of nicotine moderation plan, right?
[21:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And for me, my relationship with sugar is like that.
[21:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I do not eat sugar.
[21:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's not a disempowering stance.
[21:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's an empowering stance, right?
[21:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I feel freer when I don't eat sugar.
[21:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel enslaved when I eat sugar.
[21:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That is not everyone's story, and that is not everyone's experience, nor everyone's path.
[21:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that, um, you know, for someone who's had an eating disorder, whether to engage with any foods with a bright line, a clear boundary that you just don't cross, is going to be a very, very personal choice.
[22:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But the last thing I'll say about this is that I really have learned a lot about the human psyche through internal family systems.
[22:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't know if you know about that approach to the to psychology.
[22:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it's an approach that talks about the human psyche as a cluster of parts parts of us, so like like a wounded in our child part, right?
[22:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[22:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now in the development of eating disorders, some very distinct and extreme parts come up, right?
[22:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A food controller part that says you don't get any of that food, that food is off limits, right?
[22:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: and then a food indulger part that might fight against that and say oh yeah I'm going to go have a little of this you know like we deserve a little of this we earned a little of this this will help you know this will be good and that war can be very intense right so what I would say is if you are going to engage in a bright line and a healthy empowered way it's important to work with that food controller part of you and not have it coming from that place.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: have it coming from a grounded, clear, calm, confident place of, I actually do better and thrive more when I don't eat this food.
[23:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's an experiment I don't want to run anymore.
[23:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm tired of overeating pasta.
[23:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, I'm tired of feeling sick at night because I eat too much pasta.
[23:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How many times have I succeeded in eating a moderate amount of pasta?
[23:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: In the last 43 times,
[23:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Am I done running this experiment?
[23:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is it a choice I want to make to not do it anymore?
[23:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You see what I'm saying?
[23:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's just a very individual thing.
[23:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I am so not the bright line food police, you know, do what gives you peace, do what works for you.
[23:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And bright lines are typically the last resort.
[23:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They're not like a first line of defense.
[23:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's something you do after you've really, really tried to eat foods in moderation for a very long time.
[23:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, Christian Rubin talks about that in her book about moderators and abstainers and I think for the most part I am an abstainer.
[24:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It feels easier for me just to say no than to have a little bit, but I've also recognized that if I take one bite, that was enough because I understand dopamine well enough to know like, oh, your brain is just really happy about the sugar right now because it's like cocaine to your brain.
[24:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so I think that I have enough rationality and removal from that period of my life that I can be a little bit more of a moderator, but I totally get what you're saying about abstaining.
[24:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I do want to talk here before we wrap up about GLP-1s, obviously people are seeing great success in taking these, you're not condemning them and saying that they're bad, but even after they lose all this weight, they do gain it back within
[24:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: like two years.
[24:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know if there's anything else you want to say in regards to GLP ones, obviously everything that you've just stated for the last 20 minutes applies to maintaining, but anything else you want to say here.
[24:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I have so many things to say about GOP ones.
[24:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I definitely don't condemn them.
[24:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think they're amazing.
[24:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think they're amazing.
[24:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I think that they're also complicated.
[25:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They impact different people different ways.
[25:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Some people can't tolerate them at all.
[25:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Some people won't take a formal collogical solution.
[25:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say ICOBcity,
[25:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: diabetes and food addiction as brain-based diseases.
[25:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And just like I support my friends who have bipolar disorder and taking their meds as they also go to therapy and do all the things they need to do in their lives to lead balance lives, I support people in taking meds for the conditions that they have.
[25:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so I'm very pro-choice about the medications, but they're also not quite the silver bullet that for most people that the brain acclimates to them.
[25:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And most people are not getting all the way down to go away on them without partnering them with behavioral interventions as well.
[25:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: People who really get down to go away on them typically are partnering them with other things.
[26:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, what else do I want to say about about GLP ones?
[26:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I bright line eating produces the same weight loss results as Wagovi and Ozempix.
[26:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we have a behavioral approach that creates some of the same hormonal changes in the brain, but naturally, but I think partnering them together is an even stronger approach for a lot of people.
[26:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that GLP ones are the antidote in a lot of ways, the pharmacological antidote to the high dopamine environment we've created food and otherwise.
[26:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean people are drinking less coffee and drinking less alcohol and smoking fewer cigarettes.
[26:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And
[26:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the way the drugs work is not just by slowing down digestion and affecting appetite, but also by modulating dopamine in the nucleus of humans so that the spikes don't happen.
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You still have the baseline dopamine there, but the hit doesn't come.
[26:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the things that used to go to for a hit, you're like, eh, it just doesn't actually do it anymore.
[27:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you stop.
[27:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's, uh, yeah, they're
[27:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, I'm watching all the data come in very closely.
[27:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I don't even know that I think that they're on healthy.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, on balance.
[27:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They do some things like they raise heart rate and stuff.
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they do some things that are not healthy.
[27:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But on balance, they seem to actually be causing also a lot of health protective benefits.
[27:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, you know,
[27:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It seems really like, hmm, you know, I mean, I don't know, kind of like met foreman does a lot for people in addition to helping with with diabetes.
[27:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think they're interesting medications.
[27:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really do.
[27:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, I appreciate you speaking to that.
[27:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think without anything, it's a teeter totter of balance.
[27:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like it may affect one area negatively with this other area.
[27:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, where's
[27:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Whereas if you have a stronger benefit as to manage diabetes and or weight loss, it's going to cause a ton of other issues long term like then have at it.
[28:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And also like there's something to be said about your mental health when it comes to how you feel about yourself.
[28:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, I'm just glad to have a professional speaking to it.
[28:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm a pretty neutral person when it comes to those drugs.
[28:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But my final question for you as we wrap up is
[28:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Slowly start to step into their weight loss journey.
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What is the main thing that you would want them to change today?
[28:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Is it just that mindset of regarding their maintaining and motivation?
[28:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I would say the first thing is learn how a dictively susceptible your brain is when it comes to food because the weight loss approach that's going to work for you is going to hinge on that.
[28:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So there's a quiz you can take at foodaddictionquiz.com.
[28:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It takes 30 seconds.
[28:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's so short.
[28:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Foodaddictionquiz.com.
[28:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's only five quick, multiple choice questions, and it'll give you a number on a scale from 1 to 10.
[29:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you end up being like a 7, 8, 9, or 10, that's highly susceptible to foodaddiction, you're going to need to probably look into something like bright line eating or a 12-step food program or something like that.
[29:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: in order to be successful.
[29:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A GLP1 might help you lower that a bit.
[29:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But, you know, if you have a lower score, then it's an issue of habits and behavior and not addiction.
[29:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would say that's the first piece of information you need.
[29:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, where can listeners grab a copy of your new book and connect with you online if they want to hear more and I'll be sure to link that in the show notes for listeners as well.
[29:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, totally.
[29:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, here's the new book maintained.
[29:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They can get it anywhere books are sold and we have a website at join the maintenance movement calm where people can get.
[29:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: a bundle of bonuses for ordering the book anywhere.
[29:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then, um, brightlineeating.com.
[29:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if people want to try brightlineeating, we have a 14 day challenge.
[29:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, and I would say take the quiz, foodaddictionquist.com.
[30:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Perfect.
[30:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, really quick, as we wrap things up, I'm going to ask you the final two questions that I ask every guest.
[30:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: These are just more wrap but fire to get to know you a little bit better.
[30:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[30:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Uh, well, I'm all about habits and behavior change and productivity and stuff.
[30:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I'm going to say, uh, focus me if people don't know about focus me.
[30:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, focus me.com.
[30:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's, uh, it's like a work sharing screen.
[30:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you set up an hour to get some work done and then someone pops up on a video screen.
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you say, hey, I'm Susan, and I'm going to write.
[30:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm going to edit chapter four on my book.
[30:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they say, hey, I'm Jose, I'm in Spain.
[30:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I'm going to, you know, debug two sheets of code.
[30:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And we say great, I'll see in 50 minutes, and it's a 50 minute hour, it's so cool.
[30:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then the other one is stick, a stick contract, STICKK, and you can create a behavioral contract with yourself that you will do or not do, whatever it is, you need to do or not do.
[30:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you can even set stakes like that some amount of money will go to a political party.
[31:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You would never want to donate to or something if you fail.
[31:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: to really keep you keep you on track.
[31:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I use those tools all the time.
[31:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I'll be sure to include both those in the show notes.
[31:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's so fun.
[31:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I might have to do this.
[31:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love it.
[31:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay.
[31:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[31:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My final question for you is what is something you can't stop talking about?
[31:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, I would say GLP once.
[31:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Everybody wants to talk about them and I'm a weight loss expert.
[31:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the data keep unfolding.
[31:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And my opinions keep changing and rolling and more
[31:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, no, for sure.
[31:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I have been all kind of all over, like I said, I'm more neutral at this point, but yeah, it is interesting as we learn more.
[31:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's just been insightful.
[31:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I appreciate you sharing all of this.
[31:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I wish I had this in my early 20s this book and you as a resource.
[31:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think it's going to do some good work and help help people.
[31:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I appreciate you joining and sharing with my audience today.
[31:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, thanks, Dan.
[31:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's been great to be with you.
[32:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[32:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[32:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[32:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[32:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[32:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.

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