# Healing Yourself While Raising Your Kids: Breaking Cycles Without Perfection | Eli Harwood (Bonus Episode)

An episode of [Minimalist Moms Podcast | Purposeful Life & Parenting Tips](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1159498258), 26 May 2026, 38 min.

Audio: https://prefix.up.audio/s/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/clrtpod.com/m/mgln.ai/e/35/audio2.redcircle.com/episodes/9daefa37-12f5-4886-a461-b35b10dde2e6/stream.mp3

What if the goal of parenting isn’t perfection - but repair? In this episode, I’m joined by Eli Harwood, therapist, mother of three, and author of How to Heal Your So Your Kids Don’t Have To: An Encyclopedia for Ditching Your Emotional Baggage. Together, we explore the messy but meaningful work of breaking cycles, building secure attachment, and learning how to parent with greater emotional awareness. Eli shares why attachment is far more flexible than many parents realize and how repair — not getting everything right the first time — is often what builds the deepest trust and connection. We also discuss practical ways to navigate anger, defensiveness, control habits, jealousy, blame, and body image struggles, while examining the deeper emotional needs often underneath these reactions. This conversation is a compassionate reminder that intentional parenting isn’t about becoming flawless. It’s about learning to stay present, take accountability, and create relationships rooted in empathy, responsiveness, and repair. Links Discussed in This Episode | • Checkout the podcast storefront for recommendations from Diane. • Subscribe to the Minimalist Moms Youtube Channel • Connect with Eli: • Website • Instagram • Podcast: How To Deal • Book: How to Deal with Your ____ So Your Kids Don't Have to: An Encyclopedia for Ditching Your Emotional Baggage About Eli | Eli Harwood is a licensed therapist, creator of Attachment Nerd, and author of the books "Securely Attached", "Raising Securely Attached Kids," and “How to Deal with Your (__) So Your Kids Don’t Have to”. She has over 19 years of clinical experience, over 1.5 million followers across her social media platforms, and is on a mission to make the world a more secure place one attachment relationship at a time. Eli has three children, one husband, two cats, a gaggle of chickens, and an extraordinary number of high maintenance plants! Episode Sponsors | The Minimalist Moms Podcast would not be possible without the support of weekly sponsors. Choosing brands that I believe in is important to me. I only want to recommend brands that I believe may help you in your daily life. As always, never feel pressured into buying anything. Remember: if you don't need it, it's not a good deal! Enjoy the Podcast? Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your fellow mothers so that they can be inspired to think more and do with less. Order (or review) my book, Minimalist Moms: Living & Parenting With Simplicity. You can contact me through my website, find me on Instagram, Pinterest or like The Minimalist Moms Page on Facebook. Our Sponsors: * Check out BetterHelp and use my code betterhelp.com for a great deal: https://www.betterhelp.com * Check out Cure Hydration and use my code MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://www.curehydration.com * Check out DeleteMe and use my code joindeleteme.com/MINIMALIST for a great deal: https://joindeleteme.com * Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: For those of you that are new around here, I released bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience.
[0:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So if this content is something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episodes that drop this week or join me back here next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
[0:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think it's really important that we really separate apologizing and asking for forgiveness from actual repair.
[0:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because I think as a culture sometimes we think, okay, if I say I'm sorry, then you should forgive me.
[0:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or if I have come back around
[0:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: then that's the end of the repair.
[0:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But real repair is about being able to sense that someone else actually cares about the impact that they made on you and can hear it without crumbling or getting to fence it.
[0:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So one of my favorite tips for myself is when I am very aware that I've been too harsh, I've been distracted.
[0:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like I misunderstood a lot of my kids.
[0:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Before I try to repair with them, I forgive myself.
[0:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Which sounds a little backwards because we're like, well, what if they don't want to forgive you?
[1:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You should forgive yourself first.
[1:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, but that really helps me come to them in a way that is more available to what they need instead of what I need So if I don't forgive myself first, then I'm I'm looking for forgiveness often instead of having the capacity to create repair
[1:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
[1:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What if the goal of parenting isn't perfection but repair?
[1:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In today's episode, I'm joined by Eli Harwood, therapist, mother of three, and author of How to Deal with Your Feet, so your kids don't have to, and encyclopedia for ditching your emotional baggage.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Together we explore the messy but meaningful work of breaking cycles, building secure attachment, and learning how to parent with greater emotional awareness.
[1:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Eli shares why attachment is far more flexible than many parents realize and how repair is often what builds the deepest, trusting connection.
[1:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We also discuss practical ways to navigate anger, defensiveness, control habits, jealousy, blame and body image struggles while examining the deeper emotional needs often underneath these reactions.
[2:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This conversation is a compassionate reminder that intentional parenting isn't about becoming flawless.
[2:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's about learning to stay present, take accountability, and create relationships rooted in empathy, responsiveness, and repair.
[2:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you've been enjoying the minimalist mom's podcast, make sure you hit five stars or share this episode with a friend that could benefit.
[2:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And with that, let's get into my conversation with Eli.
[2:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, Eli, I am so excited to talk today.
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There are very few people at this point that I reach out to specifically on social media, but I had been listening to your book on audible, and I thought it would be a great one to share with my listeners, so I'm really glad they heard today.
[2:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm so honored, about such a crazy honor, thank you.
[2:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, well, I'd love for you to go ahead and introduce yourself to the listeners and tell me how this book came to be.
[2:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, so I'm Eli, and I have three children.
[2:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I am a therapist, I'm a mom of three, and I am an author and I started writing books about five years ago, three or four years ago, I guess, is really what I started.
[3:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because after years and years and years of sitting with clients, it was very obvious to me that people didn't have all the tools that they deserved to have when it comes to knowing what matters and what doesn't matter in parenthood.
[3:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And my mom was the OG Cyclebreaker in my family.
[3:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when I was nine, she was in a real bad place.
[3:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she was in a real bad place for zero to nine of my life.
[3:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: When I was nine, she was like, maybe the world would be better off without me.
[3:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And thank goodness.
[3:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She got the guts to open the yellow pages.
[3:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How baller is this?
[3:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: To open the yellow pages and be like psychiatric help.
[3:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She literally just found a psychiatric hospital, called them, and was like, I'm checking myself in.
[3:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm not doing well.
[3:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And she started this path in my family of acknowledging generational crap, and she started making sounds of why she felt so painfully insecure and why she had such intense depression and Gremland's going on in her head.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so her journey was sort of this middle movement in our family system because I still had a lot of trauma.
[4:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Zero to nine.
[4:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, it won't be pretty.
[4:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But
[4:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: She also showed me that you can step out of that and change.
[4:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that's kind of the legacy I come from.
[4:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I feel like in some ways I had no choice but to become a therapist.
[4:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was like written in the stars.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But in practicing with people, my role is helping people heal from things.
[4:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I just heard this point where I was like, I want to help people prevent this stuff.
[4:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, like, I don't want you and your kids in therapy for decades.
[4:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want you learning how to truly repair so that stuff that happens between you and your kids in the moment can be addressed in the moment.
[4:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so just later on.
[4:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I would say the bulk of this book is...
[4:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the spirit of my mom going, we don't have to continue what happened to us.
[5:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then my clinical experience is a therapist going like, okay, well, but what?
[5:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And how?
[5:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And how do we make this tangible so that someone can pick up a book and and see, oh, yeah, that's the stuff I need to work on.
[5:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Instead of kids having to tell you later on, like, mom, you're such a people pleaser.
[5:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not people, what do you mean?
[5:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want you to be able to open it up and be like, ooh, yeah, I'm doing that.
[5:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, that's how it's gonna affect my kids.
[5:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, that's why they don't wanna come to me about certain things.
[5:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, what can I do?
[5:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what are the other resources if it's not a simple fix?
[5:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Cause it's not always a simple fix.
[5:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, certainly not.
[5:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I think a lot of people have this idea.
[5:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They do want to break the cycles from their parents or even their parents parents.
[5:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I guess what do you think people mean when they say that?
[5:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Are they just trying to provide emotional security as that really what it comes down to?
[5:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think when people say that in general, they're starting from the place of knowing that what happened for them was really painful.
[6:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they're saying, I don't want that same kind of pain for my kids.
[6:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But I think the nuances of like so then what do you want for your kids is it's really complex.
[6:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think the average cycle breaking parent knows they don't want their kids to feel like they did, but doesn't know that it's still gonna be messy.
[6:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: that there's no you don't like come to a secure place and then all of a sudden you never have conflict with your kids or you always do everything right or you never raise your voice.
[6:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Ultimately it is about creating secure attachment with your kids but knowing what that looks like that's what I am like passionate about helping parents.
[6:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So
[6:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What's interesting is that one of my biggest struggles in early adulthood, I've said this numerous time.
[6:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just really struggled with eating disorders and body image, body dysmorphia.
[6:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I knock on wood, my daughter's 11.
[6:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're not even really in the midst of it yet, but I feel as though we have done a very decent job not commenting on people's bodies.
[6:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's amazing.
[6:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I feel like I'm pretty.
[7:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: aware of that.
[7:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: However, I didn't realize that what all of that was rooted in is something else and it continues to morph.
[7:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so actually the body image issue, it's like, oh yeah, I kind of feel like I have this together because that actually wasn't the issue.
[7:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's deeper than that.
[7:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so it's like, why does that make sense?
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, yes.
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Going deeper into what it actually is.
[7:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And again, this book is really helpful in what you lay out.
[7:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I'm going to say just a few of them anger, anxiousness, at odds with our children's body, discuss defensiveness, jealous of our children.
[7:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was a great one.
[7:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Judge, lonely, powerless, regretful.
[7:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think that that's the hard thing for a lot of us is that we think that we know why we are repeating the cycle, but maybe we actually don't.
[7:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's superficial or surface level.
[7:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, what's interesting about us is that we are storytellers.
[7:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Human beings are intrinsically narrative and based.
[7:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so we tell ourselves a story about why we're doing what we're doing.
[7:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And if we aren't truly reflective on that, we can dilute ourselves.
[8:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, so a lot of a very simple common story that people have about their childhoods are like, everything was fine.
[8:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It might be that it was fine, but fine does not equal secure fine does not equal good and fine does not equal the absence of pain.
[8:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: right?
[8:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It means you were able to endure it.
[8:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so like, you know, the story at the surface of body discussed is like, I don't like my body.
[8:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have, you might be like, I have that phobia.
[8:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have like, you could even say all those things.
[8:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But we really have to pause and be like, what, what is the deeper story here?
[8:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And what, what did it come from?
[8:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Where did the discuss start?
[8:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that, you know, could be personal experiences of abuse and harm, that can be a family culture.
[8:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, that absolutely can come from a family that everyone they look at, they go, it grows.
[9:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, she needs to lose some weight.
[9:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It can come from that.
[9:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so whenever we're telling ourselves a story about our emotional world, it's so important to pause and be like, okay.
[9:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So this is the story I'm telling myself.
[9:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Is this story potentially protecting me from a deeper story that hurts more that I don't want to face?
[9:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, because I think for me a lot of the body stuff came down to perfectionism and people pleasing and accept it.
[9:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You want to put in.
[9:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, when you start pulling back the layers of the onion, that's when.
[9:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: some of the work, you can go deeper into the work of healing.
[9:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I guess healing doesn't look like perfection.
[9:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So what's the difference between self-awareness and fully being healed if there is a difference?
[9:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, okay, so let's even, let's even mess with the word healed, you know, because it's such, it's got such a grandiose nature to it like, now I'm healed and I've arrived, you know, I think it's more, that's why I love the word
[10:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: we can be secure and still be human and still have stuff, you know, you can be generally secure with your body and be like, yeah, and I, you know, I still struggle from time to time with feeling negative feelings about my body, but I'm able to talk myself with compassion through that experience.
[10:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But so I would say perfectionism is anxiety, all dressed up at a fancy gown,
[10:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so if you are approaching your growth process or your developmental process as a person or what we would call a healing process, if you're approaching that with like, I gotta get rid of this stuff, I gotta get better, my gosh, I gotta, I gotta, like that just doesn't work because the very thing is just giving it your anxiety a stage.
[10:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So it's really about learning how to be connected with other people and accepting of yourself and compassionate of yourself,
[10:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: pausing in your body and going like, I belong here.
[11:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm here.
[11:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm here.
[11:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm here.
[11:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm here.
[11:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm here.
[11:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm human.
[11:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I deserve the space to be human like every other human does instead of I'm going to clean myself up and be good for my kids so that they don't have to deal with masses.
[11:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is this is a different spirit.
[11:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Curiosity versus self judgment, yes, yeah, when you come to it, even in a neutral, like this is not good or bad, but it's something I want to work on.
[11:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's the same with if you have any kind of goals.
[11:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, when you start beating yourself up about not achieving your goal, usually like you to spiral into.
[11:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, yes, yes, you get stuck and what's so tricky about this is that if you didn't have that secure mirroring experience where like there was adults, multiple adults, or one adult in your life, who could reflect back to you that you're I'm here with you, you're okay, you're safe, I got you, then you adapted to those
[12:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: in adequate environments and you adapted to them by hoping through things like perfectionism or you know there's a numbing habit chapter in there like just learning to not be all and those adaptations were the best choices you could make in a situation where there was no one to care for you.
[12:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But as a grown-up now, you can go seek out new groups of people, a new spaces, a new places to be seen held and understood so that your body can start to learn.
[12:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Ah, I'm safe enough to be known.
[12:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that, you know, is easier to then done, obviously.
[12:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, for sure.
[12:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, okay, let's see if this is the right question to ask or how I can ask this question.
[12:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you have all these topics in your book.
[12:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I'm wondering, we can definitely pick a few of them and go through just some of your practicals in some of those areas.
[13:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I am curious for someone that
[13:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: can a lot that aligns with one of the areas, which every listener will find an area that they align with.
[13:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But what is a practical way that someone can build emotional security within their child without narrowing in and focusing in on one of those things?
[13:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Does that make sense?
[13:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm telling you.
[13:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And just like how can we actually build emotional security with our children?
[13:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, this is, we have lots of data on this.
[13:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So high responsiveness.
[13:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So responsiveness means when we see our children in an emotional state.
[13:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we have to be able to attune.
[13:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It doesn't mean that they're grouchy and they're like, give me a, go give me an orange juice mom.
[13:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they're like, oh, okay, I'll get you an orange juice.
[13:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's not the responsiveness we're talking about.
[13:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's their tender, they're melting down, they're feeling overwhelmed that we are empathetically responsive to them.
[13:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just sad, come here, or you wish that you could have an orange shoes, but you can't have orange shoes because that's I'm close to bedtime.
[13:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or, you know, they're bigger kids and they come home and they're grouching, you're like, you're okay, good?
[14:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they're like, I'm fine.
[14:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you give them a little minute.
[14:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You let them go to their homework, and then you come over and you go rough day.
[14:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You are attending to the emotional world that they're experiencing.
[14:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And when we do that, when we are highly empathetically responsive to our kids, they learn to use our relationship as a place for soothing and regulation.
[14:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, you know, part of what is tricky about that is, again, the our body states will affect how effective that is.
[14:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if we're responsive, but we come in hot and anxious, they won't feel better in our presence.
[14:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: They'll feel like, I don't need your anxiety on top of my own mom.
[14:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Back off, you'd feel like, what's wrong?
[14:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's wrong?
[14:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: No, I know something's wrong.
[14:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know it is.
[14:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: an attachment repair be just a significant as if we got it right the first time around.
[15:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Does that make sense?
[15:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes, so two things to know about attachment.
[15:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: One, it is very flexible.
[15:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We can feel really secure with someone even in the reality of conflict.
[15:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I can be in a fight with you and still feel secure with you.
[15:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And,
[15:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Life is too complicated for us to know how to get ahead of every single thing and need.
[15:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that built-in protection in the attachment dynamic is that if we aren't able to initially respond with compassion or empathy or to notice what's happening, but then we are able to repair and acknowledge it.
[15:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Not only does it
[15:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: sort of fit the bill for security.
[15:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It actually develops more intimacy.
[15:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you know this in your relationship.
[15:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you have a relationship where you can get off the tracks and get back on the tracks, that is going to feel so much more secure than a relationship that's never been off the tracks.
[15:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: because inside your brain, you're like, whoa, what if we do get it?
[16:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, like can this handle that?
[16:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like what happens when I'm mad at this person or they're mad at me?
[16:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So in a secure parent-child relationship, there is a deep sense of, we get messy.
[16:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We clean up the mess, we return to connection.
[16:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And then we get messy again and we clean up the mess, we return to connection.
[16:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And the key of course is the volume of the mess, the size of the mess, the length of the mess.
[16:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's not like, oh, okay, you can just like walk your kid over the head and then no big deal repair it.
[16:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, there is a realm of safety that still has to exist within the mess.
[16:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But that does involve, you know, you're like exhausted and you've had a long day at work
[16:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, like, that didn't just traumatize your kids for life and reduce their ability to rely on you, they're like, oh, harsh.
[16:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What's up, harsh mom, you know, and then you then you might need to take a break, eat something come back and the room later and say, So sorry, I lost my marbles.
[17:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just there to a lot going on and I just really was not able to stay calm with everyone asking me for things.
[17:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, and you have the stop signs of behavior in the book, alerting the reader to when a behavior does start to cross the line where you might want to see additional help from someone.
[17:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, because if you grew up in an abusive situation as a child, it is going to be harder for you to stay within the safety zone of relationship, because you didn't experience the safety zone, you experienced a much wider, more disorienting relational reality.
[17:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you might need help and that's okay, no shame in that.
[17:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's how cycles get broken as we ask people for help, like my mom did.
[17:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, but so here's a couple of other thoughts on repair, though, too.
[17:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think it's really important that we really separate apologizing and asking for forgiveness from actual repair.
[17:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because I think as a culture sometimes we think, okay, if I say I'm sorry, then you should forgive me.
[17:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or if I, if I
[18:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: have come back around and acknowledge that I did something wrong, then that's the end of the repair.
[18:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But real repair is about being able to sense that someone else actually cares about the impact that they made on you and can hear it without crumbling or getting defensive.
[18:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So one of my favorite tips for myself is when I am very aware that I've been too harsh, I've been distracted, like I misunderstood one of my kids.
[18:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Before I try to repair with them, I forgive myself.
[18:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Which sounds a little backwards because you're like, well, what if they don't want to forgive you?
[18:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, you should forgive yourself first.
[18:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But that really helps me come to them in a way that is more available to what they need instead of what I need.
[18:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if I don't forgive myself first, then I'm looking for forgiveness often instead of having the capacity to create repair.
[18:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that's great advice.
[18:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, great advice.
[19:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I would love to go through just a handful of these that you have in there.
[19:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Let's start with anger.
[19:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's the first in your book.
[19:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This one really spoke to me because it's been something that I've struggled with on and off.
[19:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not just with my kids, but with my husband as well.
[19:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So.
[19:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I guess just a few words to the wise in regards to anger and had it out.
[19:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think, I think, Ingres is one of the most misrepresented and misjudged to the motions.
[19:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The way that I have come to understand it through research and time is that it is ultimately an emotional state that arises when we feel either violated in some way by somebody or something, or we feel desperate about some other underlying need.
[19:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you probably or people say Ingres is secondary emotion.
[19:42] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think that is some times true.
[19:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I think if you're sad in a relationship or you film neglected in a relationship, over and over and over and over again, anger can come in as a secondary emotion and be like, what the hell?
[19:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How can you don't take care of me?
[19:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But what's really underneath it is feeling neglected or feeling hurt.
[20:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I said I should.
[20:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it also arises when we feel like someone has treated us unfairly or unjustly.
[20:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so what I want everyone to know about anger is you're going to feel angry as a parent.
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That doesn't make you bad mean, horrible, and it doesn't mean you're just like your parents.
[20:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Your kids are going to feel angry in their bodies.
[20:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That doesn't mean they're entitled or they're misbehaving.
[20:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We do tend to treat anger as misbehavior.
[20:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like talk to me with a different tone if you want me to hear you.
[20:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: right, instead of being able to go, whoa, you really need me to hear this, you know, so we try to intervene with anger by shutting it down instead of by giving an empathy and it actually is so much more effective with empathy.
[20:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, yeah, I mean, think about something you're mad about in your life.
[20:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If someone in your life has to come to you and go, that makes so much sense that you feel that way, tell me more.
[20:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: all of a sudden you don't need the anger anymore.
[20:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now you can get into the nitty gritties of the needs and what's happening.
[20:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think learning to make peace with the fact that anger is a helper in our nervous systems and there are obviously ways that it can be misused and it can I say it gets caught up with bad, bad set of characters.
[21:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like entitled men or abusive behaviors, but if it is understood properly, it's incredibly helpful tool in our bodies to point us towards the things we need.
[21:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hmm, okay, so good.
[21:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What about body discussed?
[21:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We've mentioned a little bit about that with my stories.
[21:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, just curious to how to deal with that feeling.
[21:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, one of my favorite ways to get at body discuss is ask yourself the question, who benefits from me hating my body?
[21:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Who benefits or what system benefits from me hating my body?
[21:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because it's a really great way to distract people from gaining empowerment and from gaining positions in their communities, leadership positions, is to have them obsessed with what they look like instead of connected to the space they can take up in the world.
[21:54] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So who benefits from me hating my body?
[21:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And in that, I say the opposite of hating our bodies
[22:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It is believing that our presence is more powerful than our appearance.
[22:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So connecting to that deeper truth, that it is a distraction.
[22:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This idea that our bodies should be free of hair and free of lumps and a certain size, I always find it interesting that in a patriarchy, women are focused and on taking up as little space as possible and men are focused on taking up as much space as possible.
[22:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the bigger your muscles as a man, the more positive you're gonna feel about your body and the smaller your body is a woman.
[22:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What does that do?
[22:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think just being curious about it and my favorite, my favorite favorite hack around this is when you are in a place of body discussed.
[22:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Instead of trying to like how you look, take a minute and do a gratitude practice with every single random piece of body you can think of for what it is doing to keep you alive and well.
[23:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like, I will thank my eyes for letting me see, although I am at that point now where I need reading glasses and distance glasses.
[23:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But they still, I still can see things.
[23:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I will thank my fingers for sensation and touch.
[23:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And, you know, this is powerful because our bodies are all different.
[23:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, you may have a part of your body that doesn't work or a part of your body that you've lost.
[23:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can still have gratitude for all the other parts of your body that are still there and with you.
[23:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So walking through that and shifting from, I wish I looked a certain way into, I'm going to really radically ally with my body for all the ways it supports me because my bodies are crazy.
[23:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, miraculous, for sure, for sure.
[23:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay, I would love to talk about defensiveness.
[23:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Mm-hmm, yes.
[23:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay.
[23:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, then I do this.
[23:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nobody does.
[23:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Nobody, not us.
[23:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's your best said to say less.
[23:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's just they like, I don't know if that's always helpful, but we need to feel defensive.
[23:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, I think that's very smart.
[24:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So
[24:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: our bodies have a reactive system that is designed to protect us when we're in danger.
[24:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How cool?
[24:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's so great.
[24:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That system can get activated in situations where it's not appropriate, right?
[24:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if someone is like really trying to do harm to me, I want my body to feel defensive.
[24:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I want to go into that reactive state.
[24:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if someone in my life is trying to get me feedback, because they want to be closer to me than they are right now,
[24:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Defensiveness backfires.
[24:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when it comes up in your body, it's almost like notice it as like, I like to think of mine as sort of like a beefy body, guard that's coming up.
[24:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's like, you want me to get this?
[24:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You want me to take care of this for you?
[24:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that there are times when I'm like, oh, thank you so much, but I'm okay.
[24:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And other times when I'm like, yeah, actually I do.
[24:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This feels dangerous and unsafe getting out of here.
[24:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was once held at night point at train station and Spain, like thing goodness that my body went into defense mode.
[24:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: but when, you know, my husband or my kids are saying something about my stress levels, that's not going to serve me or them to react from a place of self-protection.
[25:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So when that pops up, being able to go, oh, okay, thank you, bodyguard, for trying to protect me.
[25:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But actually, I know these people.
[25:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And their intent is not to hurt me.
[25:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I think the state, that's where that sale is quite brilliant is let your body come down from that a little bit.
[25:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm just saying, okay, a great phrase to use if relationally you're feeling defensive with your kids with your partner than anyone is, I'm trying really hard to hear you and I'm feeling overwhelmed.
[25:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I'm gonna take a minute to kind of breathe and then can you repeat what you're saying because I really wanna know what you're trying to get me down to our stand.
[25:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's almost like you're acknowledging that there's a part of your brain that is adhering someone properly, it's hearing it as a threat, it's hearing it as a critique instead of as an invitation to be closer.
[26:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so good.
[26:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's a couple more, sorry, now I'm like three in a row.
[26:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I really think that the one about being jealous of our children is something that I think a lot of people never consider, but it's something that happens, so I'd love for you to share how to deal with that.
[26:16] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[26:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, jealous is like a strange cocktail of emotions.
[26:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's really not just one emotion.
[26:23] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I don't think it usually comes with some panic, some anger.
[26:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: There's like an uneasiness to it.
[26:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But it's this feeling of
[26:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: someone has something that I don't have, and that's a threat to my survival somehow.
[26:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so, you know, not to split here as too much, but we tend to look at jealousy as about other people's connections and envy about other people's status or things.
[26:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So you could feel jealous or envious of your children.
[26:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: For example,
[26:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you might feel jealous that your child has a really close relationship with your partner.
[26:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so they have a really positive, you know, mother or father figure, and you didn't have that.
[27:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that pops up, or your child might not know the pains of hunger or of trauma.
[27:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so you have some envy that they are experiencing the world from a viewpoint that you never got to.
[27:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Or I don't know, like you're getting older and your children have youth.
[27:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Actually, that's a very common form of parent child jealousy that I think we should just start talking about more because
[27:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And this goes back to Patrear, he again, women are often told that you matter only within your child bearing youth.
[27:36] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so as you age, you are less beautiful, you are less important, you are less relevant.
[27:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so then as a parent, you're watching your children become relevant at the same time, you become irrelevant.
[27:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That can be a painful experience.
[27:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if you're talking about that actively with peers and with wise people in your community, what you begin to realize is like, wait, the problem here isn't that my child has something I don't have.
[27:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The problem here is this distortion of how we value girls and women, and it's a problem, like my child isn't valuable because they can be attracted to someone, right?
[28:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So yeah, in generational trauma breaking, we give our kids the things we've never had, so it makes sense that those feelings come up.
[28:14] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so the goal is just to be able to acknowledge that with other adults, and that it's grief underneath that, right?
[28:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if I'm jealous that my child
[28:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's an invitation for me to grieve.
[28:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: My dad was not someone who could be really, emotionally available.
[28:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so to let that grief out so that I can continue to move forward in what I do have in my life.
[28:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so good.
[28:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Now let's just talk about a few of the habits.
[28:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then I'll roll out things up here.
[28:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I would love for you to talk about how to deal with a control habit, another one that I'm putting out on today's struggles.
[28:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, that's the whole point of the book.
[28:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, just so people know, I didn't write this book because I am like evolved in all these things.
[28:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I read this book because I was like, reminder, note to self, note to self, note to self.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So a control habit is a relational pattern that we developed likely because we either grew up in situations that were high control, so it was modeled for us, or had some level of chaos.
[29:15] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So there's a craving for order or craving for control.
[29:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: when we are relating to our children through control, that is related to anxiety, perfectionism, it has other little tentacles, so the other topics in here, but we break a control habit by learning to tolerate our emotional states.
[29:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, if I can feel anxious and notice it in my body and not react to it, I'm less likely to pound down on my kids in a moment, the triggers may anxiety, right?
[29:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that same with my anger, like if I can tolerate anger in my body without blowing up or shutting down, then when my kid does something I don't like, I'm less likely to go into punitive, like, I'm gonna punish you, I'm gonna threaten you, like all of that comes from this knee jerk reaction
[30:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so really, it's a substitute for emotion regulation.
[30:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If I don't know how to regulate my emotions, I'm much more likely to try and regulate the environment around me by trying to control it.
[30:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And therefore, trying to control my kids, which is the saddest thing ever because kids are so smart and they know that that's what our intent is is to make ourselves feel better.
[30:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And they will not let us in on their little tender hearts if that's the way we relate to them in general.
[30:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Now, if we do it every once in a while, everyone does it every once in a while.
[30:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But if it's the pattern, we really want to break it.
[30:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[30:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You mentioned numbing earlier.
[30:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Overproductive rescue habit might be a little bit more along the lines of control, so maybe we skipped that line.
[30:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Any of the other ones that you're like, oh, we should really speak to that.
[30:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, let's talk about a blaming habit, because I think that's very common in parenthood.
[30:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: A lot of us were raised in families where when conflict arose, the question was, who's fault is it?
[31:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Who started it?
[31:04] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Who intended it, right?
[31:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like was it an accident?
[31:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was an on purpose.
[31:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: their mentality around blame is connected to a control habit, but it's very particular in terms of conflict.
[31:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if you find yourself in conflict with other people or when your kids are in conflict with each other or with you looking for the convict, who is going to be held accountable for this, that's a really important habit to break because it does not create accountability,
[31:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the more that a blame habit enters a family environment, the less authentically connected that environment is.
[31:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Because everyone is trying to get out of the way at the blame instead of being authentic with each other through the messiness of relationships.
[31:56] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So if my kids are fighting, I want my message to be, hey, what's going on?
[32:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What happened?
[32:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Not who did it, who started it, who's at fault?
[32:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What happened for you?
[32:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What happened for you?
[32:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Both of you matter, what is it you need?
[32:12] \[SPEAKER_01\]: What is it you need?
[32:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: How can I help you feel here and understand each other?
[32:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that you can learn to take better care of each other and moving forward.
[32:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so that's, I mean, it's easier so than done.
[32:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But yes, that's an important one.
[32:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I think that parenting is just a lot of work.
[32:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think, oh my gosh, yes.
[32:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And we just discount on how much work to do it really well.
[32:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And again, we're going to fail.
[32:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're going to mess up the repair piece is so important.
[32:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But to discount how much work it actually is to do it well.
[32:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then,
[32:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I do think that if we put in the work on the front ends, we'll see the benefit and not have them.
[32:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know, maybe I just just wishful thinking.
[32:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm like, maybe we won't have to work as hard in their teenage years.
[32:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know.
[32:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't think that's what's so thinking.
[32:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I think we have data on that.
[32:57] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The more trust you create with your child now, the easier you will be able to repair and connect and produce love for them later on.
[33:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It doesn't matter.
[33:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you're listening to this in your kids are 19,
[33:11] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you're still going to benefit your relationship with them when they're 30 by working on trust now, you know, so it's always worth the early investment.
[33:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, no, so good.
[33:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, is there a final word you want to leave with listeners as we wrap things up here you lie?
[33:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just your job is to be a good enough parent.
[33:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's what we're trying to do, and a good enough parent makes mistakes, owns the mistakes, and centers connection and relationship over control and appearance.
[33:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And you got this.
[33:43] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's in you.
[33:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's innately in you.
[33:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You just maybe need permission to do that.
[33:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So I hope the book is so helpful because
[33:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's hard to find good help.
[33:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Just this.
[33:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, and it is.
[33:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And like I said at the beginning, it's so easily digestible each chapter, and you can kind of pick, I mean, I think reading the whole thing could give some insight into cabinets you didn't even know you struggled with, but even if you just pick a few of the ones that you're currently struggling with and try and work through those, I think it could be, it was really helpful to me for sure.
[34:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, all that to say, where can listeners grab a copy and connect with you online if they want to hear and learn more?
[34:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Okay, so books are everywhere you buy books, so Amazon, books a million, Barnes and Noble, all those places.
[34:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: If you want to connect with me directly, attachmentner.com is my website.
[34:29] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have a secure parent program there for if you grow up at with rills hard stuff and you're like, I literally don't know what to do here.
[34:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I really need some help figuring out with the relational pattern looks like.
[34:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: you can sign up for the secure parent program there, and then I run my mouth for free on the internet on Instagram and Facebook at attachment nerd.
[34:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So, I'd love to see you there, too.
[34:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Perfect.
[34:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, quickly, it's wrap things up.
[34:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I always ask my final, my final two questions here at the end.
[34:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The first one is, what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners?
[34:58] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Hmm, gosh, there's like seven million benefit resources.
[35:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's always very broad.
[35:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mm-hmm.
[35:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Let me think about it.
[35:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Let me think about it.
[35:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay.
[35:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I got one.
[35:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's totally off all of these topics, but it's what came to my mind.
[35:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So the author of the Danish Way of Parenting, Jessica Joelle Alexander, she has made a resource called Raising Digital Citizens, and it is this deck of cards that you use to have conversations with your kids to help equip them for competent digital use, and her model is like, hey,
[35:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We don't, we don't teach a kid to drive without first equipping them to drive.
[35:30] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And so it's really well done.
[35:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it's great conversations.
[35:33] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And honestly, it's good for just building trust in your relationship, even outside of that topic.
[35:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So that's a great resource.
[35:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I just pulled it up.
[35:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: These look amazing.
[35:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What a wonderful resource.
[35:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Thanks so much for sharing.
[35:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'll be sure to include that in the show notes for sure.
[35:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: All right, last question.
[35:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What is something you can't stop talking about?
[35:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Paige, you're a key.
[35:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I've been thinking, I've never said that, but I'm sure a lot of people probably see all that way.
[35:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I just think how much, how much the abuse of women has harmed attachment over the generations and made it harder for kids to get what they need.
[36:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I just feel really passionate about empowering women and figure out ways for us to make the world more relational and less about dominance and control.
[36:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Absolutely.
[36:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's a lot of work to do.
[36:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's a lot of work that's been done, but a lot of work does still do, so yeah, for sure.
[36:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[36:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, thank you again so much for drawing me.
[36:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I love your book and I'm so glad that we were able to chat today.
[36:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So good to be with you.
[36:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you so much for having me.
[36:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What did you think of the episode?
[36:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
[36:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
[36:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[37:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
[37:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with us.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.