# 272: Scott Miller (Part B)

An episode of [The Howie Games](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1146329262), 24 Jun 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/hxv513lbw2pv7tl0kbd2jrr2.mp3

This is one of the most extraordinary comeback stories ever told on The Howie Games. Olympic silver medallist Scott Miller opens up like never before, taking us from the heights of standing on the podium for Australia in Atlanta to the depths of addiction, prison and a life he says was spiralling towards death. In a confronting and deeply honest conversation, Scott reveals the surreal moment armed police arrested him with a gun pointed at his head, and why, despite everything, his overwhelming emotion was relief. He reflects on the silver medal that took 25 years to truly appreciate, the pressure and perfectionism that defined his swimming career, and why he couldn’t even watch the Olympics for decades after retiring. He also shares the unseen challenges of rebuilding after three years in jail. It’s a raw, emotional and ultimately hopeful conversation about redemption, perspective and finding purpose after losing everything. Don’t miss the compelling two-part ABC iview documentary charting Scott’s dramatic rise, devastating fall and ongoing fight to rebuild his life. Scott is an ambassador for ADA Australia, who are leaders in workplace mental health training and drugs and alcohol awareness training programs. If you or someone you know needs help with alcohol or drug problems, call lifeline on 13 11 14 *** Follow the Howie Games on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehowiegamespod/ Follow the Howie Games on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thehowiegames See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] A listener production.
[0:07] You are listening to episode 272 of the Howie Games Part B featuring Scott Miller.
[0:11] Do not forget to watch Scott's doco on the ABC Deep End, the Scott Miller story.
[0:17] You can watch episode one on ABC iview.
[0:20] Episode two is this Monday, June 29.
[0:22] On we go.
[0:25] So, Divya, you have questions to ask.
[0:27] How are we going here?
[0:28] You all right?
[0:28] We're going okay?
[0:30] Yeah.
[0:31] I think the great thing about this is there's a lot of light.
[0:34] There's a lot of sunshine at the end of your story.
[0:36] Yeah.
[0:37] But I guess we're in a pretty dark patch at the moment.
[0:39] It was a dark patch.
[0:39] It was a dark story.
[0:40] Yeah.
[0:41] So how does it, you know, you're in out of court a couple of times.
[0:46] Yeah.
[0:47] But what was the, yeah, what was the plan for the deal that ended you in prison?
[0:55] What was the plan?
[0:56] The plan was a 15 grand earn for me to drop the package.
[1:01] What was the package?
[1:02] The package had candles in it, yeah.
[1:05] Candles with methamphetamine.
[1:06] Right.
[1:06] It was all the candles, yeah.
[1:07] A disgraced Olympic swimmer now accused of being a drug mastermind.
[1:13] Scott Miller was arrested at his Sydney home this morning.
[1:16] A few weeks ago, police seized four kilograms of ice with a street value of $2 million hidden inside candles.
[1:25] For all intents and purposes, they looked like normal candles, but we know that they weren't.
[1:30] How much, like, street value, what are we talking?
[1:33] Oh, what the newspaper's saying, what's true are two different things.
[1:36] There was, they charged me for four kilos of methamphetamine.
[1:40] Right.
[1:40] But in New South Wales, police, they charge you on the mass of the weight.
[1:46] Yep.
[1:46] So the candles might have been four kilos, but inside each candle was only about 400 grams of...
[1:54] 350 grams of methamphetamine.
[1:56] So really, that's four kilos of ice at 35%.
[2:04] Right.
[2:05] So really, 100% of ice would be about 1.2 kilos.
[2:09] And you're doing that for $15,000?
[2:10] Yeah, yeah.
[2:12] And at the time, my trucking business was going under.
[2:16] So I had four trucking dogs on the road, then three, then two, then one.
[2:22] Payments, staff, fuel.
[2:25] It was all banking up.
[2:27] I was going to go under.
[2:28] And this opportunity came up and I just saw it as a way to stay afloat and not sink another company.
[2:35] So what happened?
[2:36] You were transporting it in a car?
[2:38] Yeah.
[2:39] And what happened?
[2:41] Well, I was using the Enom app, so the police were all over us.
[2:45] The Enom app.
[2:48] Yeah.
[2:48] Which was an encrypted app, which...
[2:50] It was designed by the FBI and the AFP.
[2:53] Which is the Australian Federal Police, but obviously the people using it for nefarious activities didn't realise that was the case.
[2:59] It was supposed to be like the phone for criminals.
[3:02] That's what the group handed out.
[3:03] That's what I was...
[3:04] told to use.
[3:05] And the coppers could read all that.
[3:06] They read everything.
[3:07] Every message was going straight to them.
[3:09] Yeah, so they knew what car to put the cameras in.
[3:11] They had four cameras and two tackers.
[3:13] In your car?
[3:13] In the car, yeah.
[3:14] They watched us the whole way.
[3:17] Yeah.
[3:17] It's like a movie.
[3:18] Yeah.
[3:19] So they're filming you, they're recording everything.
[3:21] Everything.
[3:22] So you dropped the drugs?
[3:24] Yep.
[3:24] You think it's all sweet?
[3:25] Just swapped cars.
[3:26] Just didn't have to touch the drugs.
[3:27] Just swapped cars halfway, and then the car that kept going with the drugs ended up getting in a police chase, and I'm thinking, oh, fucking hell, another bloody story.
[3:37] Oh, they got in a copper chase.
[3:38] Yeah, so they were going to...
[3:40] But...
[3:41] And then it was a month later before I got arrested for it.
[3:43] Did you think in that month someone was going to come knocking on my door or did you think it was okay?
[3:48] No, I knew something was wrong.
[3:49] Right.
[3:49] Had you been paid?
[3:51] No, no.
[3:52] Wrong.
[3:52] No, hadn't been.
[3:54] Because it hadn't, yeah, what needed to be done hadn't been done.
[3:59] Yeah, sometimes you see on the news where obviously police have worked in conjunction with media or whether it's police media themselves, but the amazing thing,
[4:09] you wouldn't find it amazing, but watching the doco is your arrest when they use that battering ram to bang into your door.
[4:16] It's all filmed.
[4:17] Scott Miller was arrested early this morning here at his Roselle apartment overlooking the water in relation to the large supply of ice.
[4:26] You hopefully can see some pictures.
[4:27] Police are still undertaking a search warrant inside his unit.
[4:31] Mate, I think I've stormed in.
[4:35] What were you doing when they stormed in?
[4:37] I was in bed naked.
[4:38] Right.
[4:38] Yeah.
[4:39] I had a machine gun at my head.
[4:41] I was up, hands on the wall, naked, with a machine gun at my head, with one of the Raptor guys whispering in my ear, can't have a new form far.
[4:50] Really?
[4:50] From Olympian champion to drug dealer.
[4:52] That's what he said.
[4:53] That's what he said.
[4:53] Whisper in my ear.
[4:56] Yep.
[4:58] So...
[5:00] Like, you're whacked in the back of a divvy van, as the song goes.
[5:05] What are you thinking at this point?
[5:07] Relief.
[5:08] Relief?
[5:09] Relief.
[5:09] That's a strange adjective.
[5:10] Why relief?
[5:12] Because it's finally over.
[5:13] I've been stopped.
[5:16] Finally.
[5:17] Huh.
[5:18] Finally, I've been stopped.
[5:20] I couldn't stop, but I've been stopped, thank God.
[5:23] It was either that or death.
[5:24] Yeah.
[5:25] Prisoner, I was going to die.
[5:27] So you think it saved your life being busted?
[5:28] I know they did.
[5:29] I'm a million percent sure it did.
[5:31] Talk me through the court process, the coming in and out, the cameras shoved in your face, you know, Olympic champion in downward spiral, Scotty, are you regretting what you've done?
[5:41] That whole court media thing.
[5:44] pandemonium.
[5:45] It's a bit different when you're, because I went straight in, I didn't go for bail, so I was straight in the system.
[5:50] So you remanded.
[5:51] Yeah.
[5:51] Straight in the remand and I refused, I didn't even bother going for bail.
[5:55] I knew I was gone.
[5:56] I didn't want to waste any time.
[5:57] I didn't want to waste a day out of jail that I have to spend this, I'm saying.
[6:02] So I didn't get to see that because when you go to court, you're in a prison in Kempsey, and it's not like the hell.
[6:09] So I'll go to a room like this, there'll be a screen, the judge will be there.
[6:12] Okay.
[6:13] And I'll just see you talking like I'm talking to you now.
[6:16] Yeah.
[6:16] So that's what it's like.
[6:17] It's weird.
[6:18] You don't see anyone.
[6:19] The quote that stuck with me.
[6:20] I'm going to read this back to you.
[6:25] Okay.
[6:27] It says Detective Superintendent John Watson from the New South Wales Police.
[6:31] Yeah.
[6:33] This hit me, but it's, I think it's important to read it because by in no way, shape or form is there any glory in what happened.
[6:41] So John Watson, Detective Superintendent, said, this was not a small operation.
[6:47] They were well organized and well financed.
[6:49] And they were intent on delivering death and misery right throughout the state.
[6:56] which there's no glossing over it, Scotty, delivering death and misery right throughout the state.
[7:03] I'm not sure that's what your intent is, but that's the repercussions of the actions.
[7:08] Yep.
[7:09] Pretty hard to hear that.
[7:11] Yep.
[7:11] That painful.
[7:12] Yep.
[7:12] Well, that's what I was going to ask you.
[7:14] That's why I've got to do what I'm doing now.
[7:16] Yep.
[7:18] I've got to square up with the community.
[7:21] Square up to them.
[7:24] Like that's a shit thing to read to you in a small room here in a podcast, but I guess that's what you're dealing with, isn't it?
[7:29] Yeah, yeah.
[7:34] I went through all this in prison when you get to the stage where you write your letter to the judge on sentencing.
[7:41] Okay.
[7:41] And what are you writing?
[7:43] Well, you've got to acknowledge this, what you just said.
[7:46] You've got to acknowledge the damage that you're doing, not to the families, to the users, to the community, the ripple effect.
[7:53] You've got to really understand.
[7:54] And is that a hard thing to understand?
[7:56] Well, if you've got a brain, it's not.
[7:59] Yeah.
[8:00] But a lot of them don't get it.
[8:02] Yeah.
[8:02] Yeah.
[8:03] And the judge will really read that letter.
[8:07] I can tell you some of the best letters have got some of the best results.
[8:10] Some of the worst letters have got the worst results.
[8:12] The letter is a lot more powerful than you think.
[8:14] If he thinks you're genuine and he sees genuine understanding of what you've done and how you acknowledge it and what you want to do to make yourself better and help the situation, it goes a long way.
[8:28] And how important is it coming to that realization that your actions are causing change?
[8:35] Death and misery, as he pulled out.
[8:37] Oh, no, it's fucking painful.
[8:39] Yeah.
[8:40] It's horrific.
[8:44] Prison?
[8:45] You know, the majority of us, our only experience with prison is reading about it, seeing it in movies.
[8:50] Oh, it is, Scotty.
[8:51] And, you know, I'm sure if I said to a 20-year-old you, you'd be in complete agreement.
[8:56] So you're in Kempsey?
[8:58] I was in Kempsey.
[8:58] In maximum security?
[8:59] Yeah.
[9:00] I was in Kempsey the whole time.
[9:01] How long are you in prison?
[9:02] I did three years, four months.
[9:05] Run me through a day in prison because it's not like the average day because I guess they're all the same.
[9:10] Depends what prison you're in.
[9:12] Kempsey, I was working in the buy-up unit and I was a clerk there.
[9:15] In the which?
[9:15] Buy-up.
[9:16] Right.
[9:16] What's that mean?
[9:17] Buy-up means it's like we're a special pod.
[9:20] We've got a factory behind our pod, which is like an IGA, which has got aisles of food, all stuff that you find in an IGA or a Coles, like a mini Coles.
[9:29] And for the five or six jails around Kempsey, we would distribute –
[9:35] Each inmate, each week, will get a buy-up for up to $100.
[9:38] So we do like 3,000 orders a week.
[9:41] Are the inmates paying for that?
[9:43] Yes, they pay for it, yeah.
[9:44] They pay for it.
[9:45] And we basically pick it and process it just like a chicken chick.
[9:49] Okay, right.
[9:49] So I was a clerk, so I used to run all of the stock take and all of the ordering and do all the reports on Pronto, work pretty closely with the screws there.
[9:56] So what's a sell?
[9:59] Yeah.
[10:01] Like, again, in my head, like, it's ridiculous, mate.
[10:04] It's like Escape from Alcatraz.
[10:06] I can't relate to it.
[10:07] So that's why I'm going to ask these obvious questions.
[10:09] Like, what's your cell?
[10:10] Okay, so your cell's about... Are you by yourself?
[10:12] Well, there's one out and there's two outs.
[10:14] I went mainly two out because... Yeah, so that's with another person.
[10:17] Yeah, the one outs were too small.
[10:19] But generally a two out would be about from here...
[10:23] There'll be a bed that side.
[10:24] Yep.
[10:24] There'll be a bed this side.
[10:25] There'll be a shower and a toilet.
[10:27] Okay.
[10:27] And a door.
[10:29] It was very small.
[10:30] Right.
[10:30] There's no cage around the toilet.
[10:33] Like, you're there.
[10:34] Right.
[10:35] It's happening.
[10:35] Yep.
[10:36] It stinks.
[10:37] But, you know, you've got some sort of rules between your cellmate trying to do it when they're out in the morning.
[10:43] Right.
[10:44] Yeah.
[10:45] Yeah.
[10:45] And what time do they, like, again, you don't have a question, like, what time they lock you in at night?
[10:51] Kempsey, we'll get locked in at 2.30 in the afternoon.
[10:53] Yeah.
[10:54] And we'll be up, because we work, we'll be up at 6.30, open morning.
[10:59] So from 2.30 to 6.30, you're locked in?
[11:03] 2.30 p.m. to 6.30 a.m.
[11:04] The next morning.
[11:05] We're locked in, yeah.
[11:06] Okay.
[11:06] What's the food like?
[11:08] Kempsey, terrible.
[11:09] Terrible.
[11:09] Yeah.
[11:09] What's breakfast?
[11:10] Yeah.
[11:11] a bit of bread and some cornflakes and some milk.
[11:15] But then for your buy-ups, you can get some better stuff and some better cereals, muesli and some yogurt and stuff.
[11:21] So yeah, maybe a bit of muesli, yogurt and some fruit.
[11:24] Yeah, it's hard to sort of get the protein you need.
[11:26] Yeah, well, I was going to ask you about that with training.
[11:28] So if you're in from 2.30 in the RV, when are you having dinner?
[11:31] Are you having that in your cell?
[11:32] We have it in our cell.
[11:33] When they close the door at 2.30, they give you dinner.
[11:36] Right.
[11:36] So dinner's 2.30.
[11:38] And how do you fill...
[11:41] for three and a half years from 2.30 p.m. to 6.30 the next morning?
[11:46] I just used to read, watch TV, play chess, play cards, think.
[11:53] A lot of thinking.
[11:54] Yep.
[11:54] Enormous amount of thinking.
[11:55] A lot of doodling.
[11:57] Right.
[11:57] Yeah.
[11:58] Is it a fearful place?
[12:02] When you go to a new jail, fresh.
[12:04] Walking into Kempstie for the first time, yeah.
[12:07] People know who you are?
[12:08] Yeah, some do.
[12:09] Yeah.
[12:10] So talk to me about the anxiety or the fear of walking in for the first time.
[12:13] I can't relate to this stuff.
[12:15] You've just got a thousand, the whole pods, like eyes are on you.
[12:17] So you might have 50 guys just staring at you and they fucking eyeball you when you're walking in.
[12:22] You just got to keep your chin up.
[12:25] Don't look at the ground and just...
[12:27] Don't look them in the eye either.
[12:28] Just don't break your stare.
[12:30] Just, yeah, be confident.
[12:33] What's the hardest thing about prison?
[12:35] The hardest thing is it's unpredictable.
[12:38] You've really got to be... You can't let your guard down.
[12:42] You can't face...
[12:46] Anyone that's been in prison will never...
[12:50] They're back to a door.
[12:52] See the doors there?
[12:53] Any room in prison, no one will have their back to the door.
[12:57] Really?
[12:57] Because they need to see who's coming in because that person could be coming in to attack.
[13:02] Yeah.
[13:03] Jeez.
[13:03] So there's little things like that that you've got to be aware of.
[13:07] Yeah.
[13:09] And then when the yard goes quiet and it's like you feel it, it's about to kick off.
[13:12] Yeah, that's a shit feeling.
[13:14] Yeah.
[13:15] Training.
[13:15] Tell me about training in prison and what it does for you.
[13:19] And my immediate thing is, well, how are you getting your protein in?
[13:22] I know that's a ridiculous question.
[13:23] Well, that's the answer.
[13:24] I was like, when I got sentenced for the first lot, because unfortunately I had to go through the system twice, they –
[13:31] I got to pick where I wanted to go.
[13:33] So the two new jails, new systems from America, one in Macquarie and one in Hunter, and that was a different type of jail.
[13:41] It was all open plan.
[13:43] You can walk in the yard at nine o'clock a night.
[13:45] You've got cafe buy-up.
[13:46] You've got meat buy-up, egg buy-up.
[13:48] There's a lot more things you can do.
[13:49] You can buy nice shoes.
[13:52] So everyone wanted to try to go there.
[13:54] So that's where I went.
[13:55] I went there too because it was an education program and I did my diploma of building construction management.
[14:02] And I, yeah, and then I was a gym sweeper at the gym there.
[14:06] So for the last 21 months, I'd do some study in the afternoons and I'd hang out at the gym for three or four hours, training different groups, eating good food because you've got egg and meat buy-ups.
[14:18] Yep.
[14:18] Yeah.
[14:19] So the protein was there and different quality of inmate too, more of a better behaved inmate.
[14:27] Yeah.
[14:27] A little bit older.
[14:29] We found a good group there.
[14:30] And how do you stop taking drugs?
[14:34] Well, that was a good way to start, by going in there.
[14:37] Yep.
[14:39] And then appreciating how you feel.
[14:42] And just knowing that that's the gateway to going downhill again.
[14:46] It's just can't, no, I can't risk it.
[14:49] I just don't want to do it anymore.
[14:50] I like feeling good.
[14:52] Yeah.
[14:53] And I don't feel like I need to numb myself anymore.
[14:55] I feel like I can, I want to feel.
[14:56] I don't want to not feel anymore.
[14:59] I'm happy to hear that.
[15:00] Last question on prison.
[15:04] Again, it's movies.
[15:05] You get a visiting day and you sit across the table from someone.
[15:09] Who comes to visit you and what's it like when you see, I don't know if it's your loved ones or someone that's coming in from freedom and you're there in captivity?
[15:17] Obviously, you're happy to see them.
[15:19] Yeah, it's great to get a visit.
[15:23] And then it's shattering when the ones that you think will visit, you never do.
[15:27] So that's a bit of a sharp, painful lesson.
[15:34] But you appreciate the visits you got.
[15:36] And I got some great visits, some great friends, family.
[15:41] Yeah, so I was happy.
[15:43] Yeah.
[15:44] So how do you find out that your sentence is coming to an end and what's the last...
[15:49] morning light before you walk out to freedom?
[15:52] Well, my situation was a bit funny because I did my second case and then the judge gave me...
[16:03] How it all worked out was an extra three months, but I was just under three months into that and it was like, well, I'm getting out next week.
[16:12] Right.
[16:12] But I couldn't get out next week because the process of getting out actually took a lot longer than a week.
[16:19] So I did a month of my parole in jail, so I should have been out a month earlier.
[16:23] Wow.
[16:24] But just because of the way the system works, yeah.
[16:27] Yeah.
[16:28] It was really, and I didn't even know till the day that I was getting out that day because there's so much paperwork to do and all these names and forms that I've never heard of.
[16:38] So someone just comes in, well, you can't knock on the door.
[16:40] Yeah.
[16:41] That bang on your cellar, you're out.
[16:42] Yeah, pretty much.
[16:43] Yeah.
[16:43] Yeah.
[16:44] Yeah.
[16:45] So you walk out, right?
[16:46] Yeah.
[16:49] Crazy.
[16:50] Well, yeah.
[16:51] Especially when you've been wearing greens for four years and then you've got to ring your family and say, bring something other than greens.
[16:57] Yeah.
[16:57] You don't want to walk out in greens.
[16:58] Yeah.
[16:59] It's like one of the things you can't do.
[17:01] So I got a blue tracksuit and white shirt and I walked out.
[17:05] And what was the first thing you did once you, you know, was it to go out and have a coffee or have dinner with your family or like?
[17:12] My dad and my wife were in the car and we went to...
[17:16] I only, because it's Cessnock where I got picked up from.
[17:18] Yeah.
[17:19] I went to the pub at Cessnock and had a steak.
[17:21] Right.
[17:21] Steak and salad and chips.
[17:23] Good steak?
[17:23] Yeah, and a beer.
[17:24] It was awesome.
[17:25] It was awesome.
[17:25] I can't tell you how good it was.
[17:27] Right.
[17:28] Yeah.
[17:29] So at what stage, I'm glad we're through some of the darkness now, like as we head towards the light a bit more, like...
[17:38] You always hear when people come out of prison that financially they can be in a difficult situation, relationships, structure, networks, and it's difficult to start again.
[17:49] How do you start again?
[17:51] Well, that's a good question because they really make it impossible.
[17:55] Yep.
[17:55] Because when you get out, you can go to Social Security and you get your doll, right?
[18:01] But to get your doll, you need a bank account.
[18:04] But try to find a bank that'll give you a bank account when you go to prison.
[18:09] I went through seven or eight different banks, and within two weeks of applying for a card, they'd write back, say, sorry, this clause, we can't help you.
[18:19] So I've just got a job too, driving a truck, so I've got to go tell my employer, give him a different bank account every second week, like five or six times, so embarrassing, because he'd been shut down.
[18:31] So it just doesn't make sense as to how you're supposed to start when that simple thing is so hard.
[18:39] So what's the hardest thing about reintegrating?
[18:44] The eyes, feeling like you're getting judged, feeling like, because mine was thrown around in the media a bit, so I thought...
[18:50] Everywhere, mate.
[18:50] Yeah.
[18:51] So I did feel like I was being looked at a lot and judged and sort of maybe going into a bit of a hole,
[19:00] And I can remember thinking after three months, I just wish I was back in, back in Hunsar, where I don't have to feel like this.
[19:07] It was a horrible feeling.
[19:09] And it really took me a lot of mental strength to sort of, you know, just get on with it, stop engine.
[19:14] And that's when I just got into the truck drive and I was just doing four big days a week and, and, uh...
[19:21] It got me through, yeah.
[19:23] And after those nine months, then mum got sick and then I had to move home up to mum and dad's place.
[19:31] And going into the caring role sort of was kind of cathartic for me because I was just back around my old home and my old friends from the area.
[19:42] And I just felt much more, felt like I was much more accepted, yeah.
[19:49] And what's the caring role being like?
[19:53] Because, again, people need to... All the details will put the links of where you can see the docker and when it's being shown on the ABC and iview, et cetera, but that was touching...
[20:05] the help you were giving your mum, but then you did say, like, it's not a walk in the park being a full-time carer.
[20:11] No, it's not.
[20:12] She's stubborn.
[20:13] Is she?
[20:14] Yeah.
[20:14] Right.
[20:15] Right.
[20:15] I love her to death, but I'll do anything for her.
[20:17] But she, yeah, she's a stubborn old thing and likes to do things her way and
[20:25] We have some words about that, but in the end, we'll come to an agreement and she knows that I've got her best interest at heart.
[20:35] She knows that she pisses me off and I know that I piss her off too, but we love each other and we're there for each other.
[20:41] And I'm there until the end, wherever that may be.
[20:45] She wants to die at home and I'm going to give her that wish.
[20:49] Back to Scott shortly.
[20:50] Next up on the show, a man of fire, of passion, of creativity, of humour, of life, a cracking operator, former NRL star, now radio star, also TV star, just a general star.
[21:02] You need to listen to this episode featuring Bo Ryan.
[21:07] Whoever the highest profile person was, I'd always just aim for them and take on their persona or personality.
[21:16] And people liked it, man.
[21:18] People like, because they don't watch the show for rugby league news.
[21:21] They watch it for entertainment.
[21:23] How did you deal with coaches, teammates?
[21:27] All of a sudden you're on the TV and now you're becoming a TV star, but your main job is to go out there and perform on the weekend.
[21:35] So I don't know, but I remember with Croft –
[21:39] He had a great game.
[21:40] Fantastic.
[21:41] You know, he's got – he's played brilliantly because he can relieve his mind by going and doing immediate performance.
[21:46] But then when he'd have a bad game, it's like, oh, hang on, hang on.
[21:49] This is taking away from his performance.
[21:51] Did you cop that?
[21:52] Did you deal with that?
[21:53] Yeah, I copped that, of course.
[21:54] I –
[21:56] The reason I could do it, Tim Shane's my coach at the time, said, look, because I did a couple without even telling him, like as in just appearing on the footy show.
[22:03] And after about a month, he said, mate, I heard you're on the footy show quite a bit.
[22:07] I said, yeah, yeah.
[22:08] Thanks for watching it.
[22:12] I said, oh, well, can I do it?
[22:13] Like, what's the issue?
[22:14] Because I'm just waiting to get shut down.
[22:16] That's all I was doing.
[22:16] Yep.
[22:17] And he said, you can do it.
[22:20] Just don't play shit.
[22:22] Bo Ryan, my type of can-do customer.
[22:25] If you want a lift and maybe a little nudge along in life, Bo is your man.
[22:33] Let's get back to the story of Scott Miller.
[22:36] You decided to get back into swimming, which is now we start to move into the light because you've come the full circle.
[22:43] So there's a scene where you tell your parents and your sister, your sister's name?
[22:48] Nicole.
[22:49] Beautiful lady, beautiful lady.
[22:52] And-
[22:55] It'd be like when you tell your family you're thinking about swimming again and your mum, the swim teacher, pops up, oh, the masters?
[23:01] You're like, yeah, maybe.
[23:02] And then she says, let's hope the Russian doesn't swim in the masters as only a mother could to which you replied.
[23:09] Let's hope he fucking does so he can get some revenge on you.
[23:14] Your mum was so deadpan.
[23:15] Let's hope the Russian doesn't swim in the masters.
[23:18] She's cold as.
[23:19] She was cold as ice, mate.
[23:20] She was as cold as, mate.
[23:22] But the great thing about it is it's your first time swimming again.
[23:28] And credit to the documentary makers that they were there.
[23:31] Yeah.
[23:32] What was it like getting back in the pool?
[23:35] It was fear.
[23:40] I did it to conquer the fear of the pool and not wanting to.
[23:43] Why?
[23:44] I had such a...
[23:46] why I had so much trauma attached to swimming and diving in the pool because I hadn't done it for so many years.
[23:51] I just never wanted to dive into the pool for 20 years.
[23:56] It was this thing in my head.
[23:59] And I wanted to get to the bottom of it.
[24:02] I wanted to know why and I wanted to keep doing it and see if that feeling went away and any type of enjoyment would come back.
[24:10] And that was my test for me.
[24:11] That's what I wanted to find out.
[24:13] And did you find out?
[24:14] I found out, yeah.
[24:15] What's the answer?
[24:16] The answer is I don't have a fear of the water anymore.
[24:19] I enjoy a swim.
[24:20] I don't like swimming too far.
[24:21] I don't like swimming too much.
[24:24] But I think I found the optimum thing for me, which would be like three sessions a week of about 1,500 to 2K.
[24:30] And I think I can swim good off that.
[24:33] I wouldn't want to do any more.
[24:35] But that's something that I think I'll carry on doing because –
[24:40] I've been swimming with a few good groups, some guys that have been to the Olympics before, a little bit older than me, in the city there.
[24:46] Community connections.
[24:47] Community connections.
[24:48] And it's great.
[24:50] We can have a beer and a parmigiana afterwards.
[24:55] Yeah, it's good.
[24:56] And you competed?
[24:57] I competed too, yeah.
[24:59] No Russian.
[25:00] He didn't turn up.
[25:00] Bangor Toph didn't turn up to the masters.
[25:02] He's 150 kilos.
[25:05] What was it like?
[25:07] There's so much that we haven't talked about just in the doco, so people can watch and find out how you went, but what was it like being back competitively on the blocks?
[25:20] It felt like I never left.
[25:22] Yeah.
[25:23] You said the blocks are different now.
[25:24] Are they?
[25:24] They've got the different stands.
[25:25] They've got the split stands.
[25:26] So trying to get used to that was a bit weird.
[25:29] I didn't do too many starts leading into it, and I was a little bit slow off the blocks, but I probably have to do a little bit more start and turn work.
[25:37] But I felt that my swimming was okay.
[25:40] It might have been a little bit too big still, but yeah, I don't know.
[25:45] I just, it was good.
[25:47] I got a lot of nice people came up and said a lot of kind things to me, which made me feel...
[25:56] appreciated.
[25:57] That's cool.
[25:57] Yeah.
[25:58] It's nice to be appreciated.
[25:59] Yeah, it was nice.
[26:01] And it's weird having a camera crew with you too.
[26:05] Yeah.
[26:05] Yep.
[26:05] But I knew it would be important for the doco for them to be there and for me to do what I had to do for them.
[26:14] But I just think it tells the whole story, doesn't it, really?
[26:18] Well, from a physical, like there's so many layers to your story, mate, but like purely from a physical standpoint, when you said bloke was whispering in your ear how far you've fallen, you don't see your face, you see your side eye and your jeans and you're not in the best of shape, to be fair.
[26:35] Yeah.
[26:36] And then we get to the end of it and that's how I started by saying,
[26:40] you're in unbelievable shape.
[26:42] Like, I don't want to draw too many bows here, mate, but probably too esoteric, but obviously your life's undergone a transformation, but that's been reflected in the transformation of your body.
[26:52] Yeah.
[26:53] It's just discipline.
[26:54] It's just knowing what works, what doesn't work, and being...
[26:57] Being consistent, yeah, and trying to enjoy what you're doing and routine and structure.
[27:02] And I still struggle with it, but I've got to do it.
[27:07] I've got to do it.
[27:07] Otherwise, I just go at it.
[27:10] I just go bad.
[27:12] I know I do, yeah.
[27:13] I don't have it.
[27:14] So how much discipline is required?
[27:16] Like how often do you hear...
[27:21] a message in your mind of drugs?
[27:25] Not often.
[27:26] Yeah.
[27:27] Nah, I don't at all.
[27:29] Yeah.
[27:29] That's good.
[27:30] Just got to watch the odd bad influence sort of friend that will sort of try to steer your left.
[27:38] Yep.
[27:39] But I'm all over that.
[27:40] So is that the main thing you need to watch out for, the people you're associating with, to continue on the positive path?
[27:46] Yeah, of course.
[27:47] Yeah.
[27:47] Yep.
[27:48] Definitely.
[27:50] So...
[27:53] it's too basic a question, Scotty, to say why shouldn't people take drugs?
[27:59] But, okay, I'll flip it the other way before we get to that point.
[28:04] Yeah.
[28:05] If people are listening to this and they are struggling themselves or they're struggling with a loved one that's going down a path that can end up where you ended up, like what do you say?
[28:18] What can you say?
[28:19] What can you?
[28:19] They've got to be ready.
[28:20] They've got to want to change.
[28:21] They've got to have enough.
[28:24] And if they give into it, then you sort of take them away.
[28:28] You've got to take them out of the environment, put them into a facility, find a good facility.
[28:32] There's some good ones down here, some good ones everywhere.
[28:35] And you've got to be away from these people for a good period of time.
[28:39] I'm talking like minimum three to six months.
[28:41] If you want to beat it, you know.
[28:42] You can get away for three, four weeks, do these detox things that the government have, but they're not going to work.
[28:48] You need three to six months just to get reprogrammed.
[28:52] and just be fucking clean for that long.
[28:55] And then you start working on what you want to do when you get out and where you're going to live.
[28:59] You can't go back to where you were.
[29:00] You're working somewhere else.
[29:01] You've got to change your number.
[29:02] You've just got to chop off all of the temptation.
[29:08] You don't want temptation because you're coming off a... You're an addict that's been trying to be reformed.
[29:15] So why have temptations in your hand?
[29:16] You can't be in contact with these people that are...
[29:20] Very, very important.
[29:22] So what have you learnt from this whole journey you've been on and touch wood or out the other side of, mate?
[29:30] Structure and routine.
[29:32] Yep.
[29:32] And it's the key to everything for me.
[29:42] I'm finally in a space where I can help people that there's not a lot of help for.
[29:48] I've lived a pretty wild life and I've got the scars to prove it.
[29:54] And I've got a few good ideas and a few good theories on how to navigate these areas.
[30:03] And that's where I think I've got a lot to offer because traditional psychiatrists, psychologists, I don't think they can communicate with an addict properly, if you know what I mean.
[30:16] Sometimes you can...
[30:17] When you've been one, you can talk to them.
[30:19] Well, if you've lived it.
[30:20] You can talk to them on another level.
[30:21] Hey, mate, I know exactly what you're feeling.
[30:24] This is what worked for me.
[30:26] This is what didn't work for me.
[30:27] Yeah.
[30:28] So if you think you're going to go do this, I tried that five times.
[30:30] That didn't work.
[30:31] Didn't work once for me.
[30:33] But this, believe it or not.
[30:35] Do you know what I mean?
[30:36] I made it 100%.
[30:37] If you look at...
[30:39] You know, look at the majority of, let's say, AFL coaches.
[30:42] They've played at the top level so they can relate to the player.
[30:45] That's what you're talking about.
[30:46] But do you have a grasp of how much of a positive influence you can now have?
[30:55] Like, you know, it was hard to read that out to you, what the superintendent said, but to flip that on its head, do you have a grasp?
[31:02] of what talking and meeting and the trade union and the young blokes and people listening to this podcast and the speech you're going to do this afternoon.
[31:09] Do you fully grasp, mate, how much positivity you can now inject in the community?
[31:13] Yeah.
[31:13] Like it's a great gift you've got to give.
[31:15] That's it.
[31:16] And that's me giving back for what I've done.
[31:19] And I'll continue to do that.
[31:21] Yeah.
[31:21] So what's the next 10 years in Tarl?
[31:23] If I said to you, we sat down in 10 years, what's blue sky for you, Scotty?
[31:26] I could be doing this for 10 years.
[31:28] Right.
[31:28] I hope to be.
[31:29] Yeah.
[31:29] And growing it, spreading the message.
[31:32] Yeah.
[31:33] And when someone comes up to you and says, I heard what you said and this is where I was and now as a result I'm here, what does that mean to you?
[31:41] It means it worked.
[31:43] Yeah.
[31:44] It means I've helped someone save themselves.
[31:51] And that's a pretty bloody good feeling, let me tell you.
[31:53] Well, it...
[31:54] I've had it a couple of times since I've been out.
[31:56] Yeah.
[31:56] Yeah.
[31:57] Give me an example before I get to your final question.
[32:00] Give me an example.
[32:02] Okay.
[32:04] Okay, so just a friend from the area.
[32:08] Yeah.
[32:09] His son is going down a similar route to me.
[32:15] So I've been having a few dinners with the father and the son and...
[32:21] And he's been really honest.
[32:23] He's not shirting away from what he's done, the situation he's in.
[32:28] But he's early days.
[32:29] He's only 20.
[32:31] But I just feel like I communicate with him on another level.
[32:36] I explain to him what's going to happen next.
[32:39] This is where you're going to go next.
[32:41] And then you're going to go here.
[32:42] And then once you're in jail, you're young, you're white.
[32:45] You're going to have problems because you're kind of big.
[32:48] As you're strong, you're going to be a target.
[32:50] And you're coming in on drug charges, you're going to be a bigger target.
[32:55] And basically just told him exactly what was going to happen to him if he kept on going down this path.
[33:01] I said, is this what you want?
[33:03] He goes, no, I don't want it.
[33:04] I said, what are you doing it for?
[33:05] And he explained to me, it was just the respect, the power.
[33:08] I said, man, you're a smart kid.
[33:10] You've got brains.
[33:11] You can work out another way to make money.
[33:13] It doesn't have to be doing this.
[33:14] Hmm.
[33:15] And he's gone back and thought about it.
[33:18] I think there's some good progression there.
[33:21] I've got to have another meeting with him next week.
[33:23] But, yeah, this is a very good friend of mine reaching out to help his son.
[33:27] And I expect some more to be coming along the way soon.
[33:33] I enjoy that.
[33:34] If I can keep him in a jail and keep him from not going down that route that I went down, because I said to him, mate, it's not pretty.
[33:41] You think it's pretty now.
[33:42] You think it's cool.
[33:43] It's fucking ugly.
[33:44] It sounds ugly.
[33:45] It's ugly, mate.
[33:46] Yeah.
[33:47] So a lot of people will hear this.
[33:50] Are you setting up a situation where people can get in touch with you?
[33:55] Like as we said, you talk to the young apprentices.
[33:58] How do people – people will listen to this in their organisation and they want to hear from you or have the experience of listening to you.
[34:05] How do people go about doing that now?
[34:07] Good question.
[34:08] Yeah.
[34:09] I do.
[34:10] I'm going on a Magic Gift website.
[34:13] It's like a platform for seminars and for groups.
[34:16] Magic Gift?
[34:17] It's called magicgift.com.
[34:18] Okay, we'll put a link to it.
[34:20] Yeah.
[34:20] This is a friend of mine who started this site and I'm...
[34:25] A very good friend of mine, and she's more in the medium type sort of areas, but she said there's no reason why you can't do stuff for incarcerated people recently released from being incarcerated and struggling to reintegrate into the community.
[34:41] That for me was the hardest thing, and I know that there's no support groups for that out there.
[34:47] Yeah.
[34:47] So I offered my services to a group for that.
[34:50] If there's parents and kids and people that have been in prison or family members have a loved one that's been in prison and you see them struggling.
[34:58] That's a highly valuable resource that you can provide.
[35:01] Yeah.
[35:02] So along with the drug addiction and the...
[35:06] huge personal loss and final sort of area would be transitioning, athletes transitioning from sport into their normal life.
[35:14] Like I'm no expert at it, but I do know what not to do.
[35:20] Yeah.
[35:20] Yeah.
[35:21] Which is as much as value as what to do.
[35:23] Yeah.
[35:24] Yeah.
[35:24] Yeah.
[35:25] So I'm sort of offering small groups of people to sort of want to sit in and we just talk about, and that's a bit nervous for me to be able to do it.
[35:36] I'm not sure how I'll go, but I know I can help.
[35:39] I know people just don't have answers.
[35:40] Yeah.
[35:41] And there's no one you can ring to get answers.
[35:43] Yeah.
[35:44] I do my stuff with Ada as well.
[35:45] Yeah.
[35:45] I'm still doing that.
[35:46] So how do people get in touch with that?
[35:48] Just ring Darren or Anth at Ada.
[35:51] We'll get some details on the show notes.
[35:53] People can check it out.
[35:54] ADA Australia.
[35:56] Yeah.
[35:56] We'll make that easily accessible.
[35:58] Yeah.
[35:59] We always finish the same way.
[36:01] And this question always starts by saying, you've had so much success in your life.
[36:07] What lessons have you learned for the young people out there that they can take on?
[36:10] But obviously with your story before I ask you that,
[36:14] Let's start by saying for those people listening that are on a path that isn't going to take them to success, what advice would you have for them?
[36:29] If you're serious about changing your life, you've got to put your hand up.
[36:33] You've got to figure it out.
[36:35] You've got to get in.
[36:36] You've just got to say, help.
[36:39] Put your hand up and say, help.
[36:41] I need help.
[36:42] That's what you've got to do.
[36:44] I'll come running.
[36:45] I'll come running.
[36:47] That's a great answer.
[36:48] The flip side of that is you are an Olympic silver medalist.
[36:53] And in us mortal's eyes, you've achieved extraordinary success in the sporting field.
[36:59] So the flip side of that, which we normally finish with for those that are wanting to achieve success in their field, what have you learned about what it takes, what's required to succeed?
[37:10] You need discipline and you need structure and routine and you need accountability.
[37:17] And you need good people around you.
[37:19] No antisocial personalities.
[37:21] You need people that really genuinely like you.
[37:24] genuinely like you and disassociate with those people and your family and just keep it, keep it tight.
[37:27] Yeah.
[37:28] Keep it, keep the circle small and tight and intimate.
[37:29] Yeah.
[37:29] Don't be around too many people.
[37:30] You never know who the sharks are.
[37:31] The sharks are out there, they'll bring you down and you won't know where they come from.
[37:34] Yeah.
[37:34] Keep your circle tight and just be really, really disciplined.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:37] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:38] Yeah.
[37:39] Yeah.
[37:39] Yeah.
[37:39] Yeah.
[37:39] Yeah.
[37:39] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:40] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:41] Yeah.
[37:42] Yeah.
[37:42] Yeah.
[37:42] Yeah.
[37:42] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:45] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:46] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:47] Yeah.
[37:49] I've seen a lot of sports docos in this job, mate.
[37:51] Congratulations to you and the entire team at JAM.
[37:54] As I said, it had me in tears.
[37:57] I appreciate you coming in here for a really...
[38:02] in-depth conversation that was difficult to ask the questions at times.
[38:05] I'm not sure who was more awkward at times, you or me, but I think.
[38:08] I think we're 50-50.
[38:10] Yeah.
[38:10] I think we got there, mate, and I appreciate you shedding the light on your story, and I hope you continue to swim and sunlight shines on you, mate.
[38:20] Thanks for joining me.
[38:20] On you, Howie.
[38:21] You're a legend.
[38:22] Thanks, mate.
[38:22] Well done, mate.
[38:26] I didn't want to influence you at the start of this episode with my thoughts on Scott, but it was an intense scene in the studio.
[38:34] There's obviously a lot of emotion, and I wish him nothing but success.
[38:38] As you heard, Scott is fully aware of the pain his actions have inflicted on the community.
[38:43] He seems fully committed to righting some of his past wrongs as much as he can.
[38:47] I hope he succeeds with that aim.
[38:50] Until next Monday, with our big five Australian sporting performances...
[38:55] Week after that, Bo Ryan, all coming your way on the Howie Games.
[38:59] Thanks for listening.
[39:00] Peace and love.
[39:02] And we can do it if we try, try, try.
[39:09] If we try, try, try.
[39:14] If we try, try, try.

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