# 279: Cathy Freeman - The Millionaires Club (Part A)

An episode of [The Howie Games](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1146329262), 29 Sep 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://enrichment.soundstack.com/4vjqq8/episode.flightcast.com/zzf8cu1vfzxmoxa3hqt18val.mp3

The Millionaires Club finale. And what a way to finish. One of our - and your - absolute Howie Games favourites. Ten years after our first chat, Cathy is all in on a conversation that has everything. Nostalgia, laughs, competition, life, Australia and some seriously emotional moments. Cathy takes us back to the Stawell Gift, 30 years on, and what it feels like to stand on the start line knowing you want to win. Then comes more memories of Sydney 2000… and an incredible description of what it felt like to be lifted by the Australian crowd on one of the biggest nights in our history. We talk about that feeling of unity, what it still means to Cathy today, and the incredible potential of Brisbane 2032. And, after 10 years of The Howie Games, this is a very special way to finish our Millionaires Club Anniversary Series. Cathy Freeman. One of Australia's greatest. One of our favourites. One hell of a conversation. *** Follow the Howie Games on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehowiegamespod/ Follow the Howie Games on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thehowiegames See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] A listener production.
[0:04] Okay, are you recording?
[0:11] Welcome, one and all, to the third and final instalment of the Millionaires Club, featuring the three guests over the last ten years whose original episodes have been downloaded by you legends over one million times.
[0:25] This is episode 279 of the Howie Guns Part A, featuring the one, the only, returning to the show, Cathy Freeman.
[0:34] Freeman has two gone, Freeman wins gone, Cathy's the winner, Australia the winner, and the
[0:40] Now, Cathy is a guest that needs no introduction, but I'm going to give her one anyway.
[0:45] This is a lady for mine that performed one of the greatest individual performances in Australian sporting history at the Sydney Games when she won the 400 metres 26 years ago.
[0:54] What a champion.
[0:59] Cathy, she is a truly delightful person, as you will shortly hear.
[1:02] She has a childlike enthusiasm for life, is forever smiling and laughing, and seems one of the few people that doesn't really seem to fully grasp the enormity of what she has achieved.
[1:13] She is a star.
[1:15] She's also a mum.
[1:16] Yes, this superstar deals with parenting situations that most of us do and can relate to apparently.
[1:23] Olympic gold medals don't really cut it with your child.
[1:26] Thanks to the truly great woman that is Sally Harris from TGI Sport for making this episode happen.
[1:32] And finally, the privilege of a couple of hours chatting to Cathy Freeman is not lost on me in any way, shape or form.
[1:41] I'm smiling now as I think back on it.
[1:44] Enjoy the continuing story of Catherine Astrid Salome Freeman.
[1:49] Simply the best.
[1:53] So when you search and then you find And know just where to go And thoughts that once used to cloud your mind You see clearly and now you know Mystery, what is to be revealed In King Selassie I Come on children, trod with me
[2:13] We want to reach Mount Zion.
[2:25] I cannot tell you how happy we are on the Howie Games to welcome to the second time to the show...
[2:32] Catherine Freeman, you've walked in here and filled me with joy already.
[2:37] How are you?
[2:37] You're just such a lovely person.
[2:40] You can be my friend.
[2:41] Can I be your friend any day?
[2:43] Any day of the week before we start.
[2:48] I think the love for you, we did this 10 years ago.
[2:52] I can't believe it.
[2:53] I just wanted to explain to you.
[2:56] So Cass, I'm now going to invite in.
[2:59] Cass has been with us for a year.
[3:01] Cass runs our social media and I said, how are you feeling about meeting Cathy Freeman?
[3:07] Cass, come over to the microphone.
[3:09] Cass is gorgeous.
[3:10] Cass is gorgeous.
[3:11] This is just to explain to people how people feel about you.
[3:14] Cass, I said, how are you feeling about meeting Catherine Freeman for the first time?
[3:18] So excited.
[3:19] Oh, my gosh.
[3:20] How much did you pay her?
[3:21] No.
[3:22] I have been going to science work since I was a kid and trying to run next to you.
[3:28] And I told my sister, who I had done that with, and I told her, get to me, happy friend of tomorrow.
[3:33] Oh, bless.
[3:34] She said, please tell her that we love her.
[3:35] Oh, my gosh.
[3:37] And you said to me about a photo.
[3:40] Yes.
[3:40] You said you've never asked her.
[3:42] I've never asked any of the Howie Games guests for a photo, but I would love to give you a photo.
[3:47] We'll do it after.
[3:47] We will do it after.
[3:49] Oh.
[3:49] Thank you, Cass.
[3:50] My head's just, you know, blown out.
[3:53] Perfect.
[3:55] So this is what it means still.
[3:58] Yeah, it's crazy.
[3:59] It's crazy.
[4:00] How much of that do you still get?
[4:04] I am leading a life where...
[4:10] A lot of things are occurring that I just was never, ever ready or could ever be prepared for.
[4:18] You know, I'm a five-year-old kid.
[4:21] I'm 53 now.
[4:23] And I want to run.
[4:25] And I love how it makes me feel.
[4:27] Oh, I am loving this.
[4:30] This is my everything.
[4:31] Oh, I'm enjoying myself.
[4:35] I evolve into a crazed, all-consumed, killer instinct, I hate losing, animal beast-like competitor, and that's all that I ever – I'm in my little bubble, and then the bubble bursts in retirement and boom, and it's like this spectacular array of just unexpected delights.
[5:05] And what are those delights like?
[5:08] Oh.
[5:08] How often is that your world daily?
[5:12] That's a great question, Howie.
[5:14] And you're so modest, but I presume wherever you go, that is your life.
[5:20] It's making me feel a bit emotional because I –
[5:23] It's been so long since my last race.
[5:29] And there's, you know, Aussies, we don't muck around, you know.
[5:31] We're very straight shooters and people in general.
[5:35] But Aussies especially, you know.
[5:38] You know what I'm saying.
[5:39] I do.
[5:40] So, yeah, it makes me feel very emotional.
[5:44] And I think it's age that's...
[5:47] You know, you get to a particular age and you look back and you go and then you take a good look around you in the now and it's like, what the heck is going on around here?
[5:58] I still have these moments where because my mother, you know, and my family of my mother, my father and his family, we're all just, I'm a wood dirt chick.
[6:13] I'm from...
[6:14] that sort of group of people.
[6:17] You know, I have, you know, I often talk about my ancestral lines.
[6:21] I've always been very proud of my Indigenousness and I'm proud of my immigrant, you know, ancestors as well, my connection.
[6:30] But, yeah, in Australia I'm a cookie, allergy, rainforest chick and a birugubby, you know,
[6:37] central Queensland bush girl.
[6:40] So it's like, you know, you do this one thing in life, Howie, and it just becomes this life that's just, you just can't dream about it.
[6:50] So you came on and explained this life in detail.
[6:54] On episode 25, I've written this down.
[6:58] I love that I've got so little notes for you today so we can just talk.
[7:01] So that was on the 23rd of July, 2017, which was 3,195 days ago.
[7:09] You blessed this show with your presence and took us to a whole another level with your – people can go back and listen to that episode and your descriptions of the Sydney – but it took this show to a whole another level because someone like Catherine Freeman came on the show.
[7:24] It's 3,195 days ago.
[7:28] What can I say?
[7:29] That's like to hear you say that is just, yeah, it's quite surreal really.
[7:38] Well, it was in a little studio and we shot a video at the end on a mobile phone about coming up on the show and that was on like an iPhone 2.
[7:48] Now we've got 4K cameras.
[7:50] We're like 250 episodes later.
[7:51] Incredible.
[7:53] Incredible.
[7:54] But to celebrate 10 years of the pod, we wanted to invite people back that had been our most popular episodes.
[8:02] So I am welcoming you to what we are calling, Catherine Freeman, the Millionaires Club.
[8:08] That's that your episode, amongst a few others, have had over a million people listen to them, which I find extraordinary.
[8:15] That is extraordinary.
[8:16] So welcome to the Millionaires Club.
[8:18] Oh, thank you.
[8:19] That's really amazing.
[8:21] There's no cash involved.
[8:22] There's no cash involved.
[8:24] But it's more the fact that folks take time out of their precious days to, you know, tune in and listen and want to even care about what you're going to say or thinking or sharing.
[8:38] So many people did with you.
[8:40] I didn't really – I told myself –
[8:44] We've done all the history of you and your races.
[8:47] We'll talk about a couple of races, but I thought just trust myself on the way up here today to just have a conversation with a woman who in many ways I idolize and the country idolizes.
[8:58] Gorgeous.
[8:58] Thank you.
[8:59] Well, we'll get to family and health and age and all that type of stuff.
[9:02] But you wandered in here and I had a hard relate because you've had quite the morning.
[9:06] Yeah.
[9:07] And I had a hard relate to what you were talking to about there.
[9:12] I just, it's the first week of term two.
[9:15] Yes.
[9:16] And, you know, a little bit rusty with this, you know, it's not all systems a go-go, it's a systems a slow, slow.
[9:25] And, yeah, we're sort of a bit heavy this week.
[9:30] And, you know, headphones are being forgotten.
[9:34] I've got to run them back to the school.
[9:36] She had to go into school an hour late.
[9:39] It just, and then, yeah, it's just, it's okay.
[9:43] You've got to pivot, right?
[9:45] You've got to pivot and just go with it and try and be laughing the whole way through it all.
[9:52] How old are you, little lady, now?
[9:54] Oh, 14.
[9:54] 14.
[9:55] Okay.
[9:55] So I've now got 13.
[9:56] Ah, yes.
[9:58] 14 and 16.
[9:59] Oh, you're in the- 14.
[10:00] So is it year nine for you?
[10:01] Yeah.
[10:02] Right.
[10:02] So like getting them off the back of school holidays- Yes.
[10:05] ... and getting them back in a state to attend an education facility, Catherine?
[10:12] Yeah.
[10:12] Near on impossible.
[10:13] It's, well, you know, it's, you know, you try and-
[10:18] You try to talk sensibly and, you know, you try to act sensibly.
[10:24] Well, I do anyway.
[10:25] I'm mindful of the kind of person I'm, you know, showing to, you know, we're all trying to be mindful of the sort of people we want our children to be.
[10:36] And, I mean, it's human, right, to sort of sleep in or the alarm doesn't go off or you forget something.
[10:42] It's all very human.
[10:43] So you kind of got to embrace the, you know,
[10:47] Moments where you're just being human.
[10:49] Well, let's talk about parenting.
[10:50] And to do that, I want to get you to put your headphones on because this show, you know, we've been going 10 years and back in the day, so I had when you came on –
[11:04] And this is as much for me, but I want to talk to you about it.
[11:08] The podcast has grown and my kids have grown with it.
[11:10] So when we started, they were four and six.
[11:12] When you came on, they were five and seven.
[11:16] So I listened back to your episode, and this is a promo of my 14 and 16-year-old who at that stage were five and seven.
[11:25] If you're a first-time listener to the Howe Games, well, you're a loser.
[11:32] Stick to the script, Penguin.
[11:34] I'm more of a natural orator.
[11:38] Off the cuff style.
[11:39] Sure you are.
[11:40] If you're a first time listener to the Howie Games, be sure to check out the back catalogue.
[11:46] It rocks.
[11:47] Check out Summers.
[11:49] So that's from your episode.
[11:52] As a father, now they're 14 and 16.
[11:57] And I plagiar that because I wanted to talk to you about parenting.
[12:01] How have you found the journey?
[12:04] This is not absent times, this conversation.
[12:07] This is real life stuff.
[12:09] If I could talk to that woman.
[12:12] you know, before I had my daughter.
[12:14] So if you could talk to yourself?
[12:16] Yeah, I would be saying to myself, hold on.
[12:18] Hold on, girl, hold on.
[12:22] And it's okay.
[12:23] And just know that...
[12:26] you're going to get through this and you've got this.
[12:32] Because there's so much more to life, you know, when you throw into the mix the ageing part and hopefully getting more, you know, just becoming more, you know, more gracious with life, you know.
[12:49] That's, I think, an art form in itself.
[12:51] So what type of mum have you tried to be?
[12:56] Oh, authentic without a doubt.
[12:58] And I always talk about being vulnerable, you know, with my child.
[13:06] And, yeah, it's, you know, Mum, why are you yelling at me?
[13:10] It's because I'm scared, you know.
[13:12] And when she realises, you know, it's not because I'm angry at her and she sees that, oh, Mum, oh, my gosh, she's really frightened.
[13:21] I think that changes the whole...
[13:24] dynamic completely.
[13:26] And it stays, it stays, it stays with her.
[13:29] I don't think you know fear until you have kids.
[13:32] Oh, yeah.
[13:33] You could talk about the fear and expectation of the nation on you, which we can't really relate to, but that's a certain type of fear.
[13:42] But...
[13:43] letting your kids go to kindy for the first time or go on the bus for the first time or catch public transport and go into the city with their friends for the first time or the physical acts, I think that's when we begin to understand what fear is, isn't it?
[13:55] Fear, like I think it's good to feel fear.
[13:59] It's very human to feel fear.
[14:00] I think it's necessary to feel fear.
[14:02] I always, you know, try and not always put a positive spin on every single thing
[14:11] you know, human emotion.
[14:12] But certainly, you know, I was...
[14:16] It's important to see that there is a silver lining in there somewhere.
[14:19] And what I mean by that is that there is a point where you have to go through it and hopefully just get a bit more resilient in it all.
[14:28] How big do you press that resilience lesson?
[14:32] Because it's... Good question.
[14:35] Well, I'll go off reservation a little bit here, Catherine.
[14:41] I'm not sure our kids are resilient as we were growing up because of the way they're schooled or the way people are treated.
[14:49] So I think it comes on the parents more, I reckon, to teach that resilience.
[14:53] Yeah.
[14:54] It is your job looking after your kids.
[14:56] I want to see...
[14:59] I believe in the youth of today.
[15:01] I believe in the future generations, you know.
[15:03] I think when I pass away, I want to be able to say that this world is going to – I want to leave it in a place where we've got strong individuals walking our streets and leading this world we're living in.
[15:19] So how do you try and ingratiate that in Ruby and your daughter?
[15:23] Yeah.
[15:24] I think authenticity, coming back to that being true to who you are and your vulnerabilities, those conversations that are real and rooted in complete authenticity and vulnerability.
[15:39] And that includes, for example, at her stage in life.
[15:42] You know, with the teachers, if you don't understand something, kid, put your hand up and use your voice.
[15:49] If, you know, you can talk to me about anything, you know, not everything.
[15:54] Obviously, that's not – I don't think anyone – any child talks to their parent about everything, but certainly anything, you know, that sort of –
[16:05] Just that simple leaning into, you know, being completely transparent.
[16:11] And how much?
[16:15] How much does Ruby, like she would see it daily when she's with you and people come up like Cass and say, so how's that for her?
[16:23] Because kids are into themselves, understandably so, as we were.
[16:26] Yes, yes.
[16:27] Like have you, before we get into the public sphere, have you sat down with her and watched your race?
[16:32] Has she watched it with you?
[16:34] I, under the tutelage of Shang-Guild actually, I, um,
[16:40] I knew I had to spend time with her some years ago, excuse me, and a piece of advice she gave me was, and this is obviously in Australia,
[16:50] reflection of her own raising her children.
[16:52] Yep.
[16:53] Shane Gould, Olympic swimmer, legend in the book.
[16:56] Thank you.
[16:56] Yes, apologies.
[16:57] Yes, she's just a truly lovely person.
[17:01] And she said, you've got to talk to Ruby about who you are, not just who you are as a mother, but just talk to her about all of who you are.
[17:08] And I've always sort of...
[17:12] you know what I'm like.
[17:13] I'm sort of not that person in the limelight of you splashing myself around all over the place.
[17:18] Which was unfortunate with the role you played, but yes.
[17:22] But it's important when with my own child to, you know, she needs to understand why...
[17:31] you know, when we are out and about, people have a particular reaction to me.
[17:34] Of course she does.
[17:35] So, and she, we talk about it and it's, at first it was a little bit tricky for me because I don't like talking about it to myself about it.
[17:45] I'd rather, yeah, I'm just, I've never been wholly, never been completely comfortable, you know, with this life.
[17:54] And, but I think you owe it to your child.
[17:59] you know, to talk openly.
[18:01] And like the reality is, Ruby, that, you know, I am a person who's easily recognised and people, you know, want to, you know, share their lives with.
[18:16] They want to come up and say, Cathy, that day in Sydney, this is what I was doing.
[18:21] I remember watching this.
[18:22] I remember that.
[18:23] But have you watched the race with her?
[18:26] Oh, yes.
[18:26] Apologies, yes.
[18:27] No, don't.
[18:28] Describe that.
[18:29] Like, is she asking you questions about, Mum, what's that suit you were wearing?
[18:33] Can you take me back to watching it with her?
[18:35] She actually does.
[18:38] Mum, do you get nervous?
[18:39] Mum, did you get scared?
[18:41] Great question.
[18:43] Yeah, Mum.
[18:46] Yeah.
[18:49] She, in her own way, will absolutely press me for what I went through, for sure, as an athlete.
[19:02] Sometimes I have to draw on my experience.
[19:06] I have to.
[19:06] Of course you do.
[19:07] What else is there to do?
[19:10] For example, there's a little bit of a hesitation of training myself.
[19:14] with an athlete who's better than her, who's faster than her.
[19:19] On paper, she's faster than her.
[19:21] And, you know, her father and I will, you know, her dad will try and you need to – can you try and have a word, you know?
[19:29] Because I was – There's no better person on the planet to have a word to than bloody you, Kath.
[19:36] Let's be honest.
[19:37] And, you know, I don't want to – you know, this pressurised situation, you have to let kids –
[19:43] They've got to take it up for themselves.
[19:45] You can't put it on them because they will just, God knows who knows what they could do, what their reaction is, if they're rebellious or scared or angry or whatever.
[19:56] But, yeah, I...
[19:59] I would have loved to have trained with Murray-Joy Parekh.
[20:02] I tend to use these anecdotes and I would have loved that opportunity to realise more about what I was capable of doing if I competed or trained with or spent more time with, training with and...
[20:16] learning from someone who's better than me.
[20:18] And can she separate, oh, mum, mum's telling me, as opposed to potentially the best athlete this country's ever produced telling her?
[20:28] Oh, I don't know if she sees me in that light.
[20:30] But it's interesting.
[20:32] She's learning about me more differently.
[20:36] Like if she was to spend a week with me sometimes or following me around, then it's often the energy that occurs in varying settings where she learns more about mum than me actually talking to her and sitting her down saying, right, kid.
[20:54] But, you know, but it's, yeah, it's...
[21:00] You kind of want to give the child a nudge.
[21:03] Well, that's the age eternal question that I talk about this with friends now.
[21:07] It's like, okay, how much do you, if your kid's enjoying something, how much do you push them or how much do you just let them go and live their life?
[21:14] I remember I had a similar conversation of all people with Jason Richardson.
[21:18] Right.
[21:18] And I don't know if you know this, but he and I...
[21:21] and another couple of guys, Kyle Vanderkaip, Cameron McKenzie, we trained together in 1997, and so there was a little laughter and all of this and that.
[21:29] So there's a lovely friendship there.
[21:32] And when I recently saw him at Stahl, you know, he's a Stahl GIF champion of the past.
[21:38] Yes.
[21:38] You know, we're talking about this exact same thing.
[21:41] And what did you come up with?
[21:42] And I think we're both still sitting here scratching our heads because you don't want to...
[21:49] you know, dwell on the past too much, the what ifs, could ifs, you know, could have, should have water.
[21:54] That's sort of not really that useful in this context, but, but it's more about, well, you know, you've got to, I mean, Richo's kids are a little bit older, they're gorgeous girls, but mine, ours, our ages, we can sort of still shape them and mold them somewhat, but,
[22:12] But, yeah, it's a fine line.
[22:16] And you have to be so attuned, don't you, to what your own feelings are and what your child's feelings are.
[22:21] And whether you're doing it for you or for your child.
[22:23] That's exactly it.
[22:25] That's exactly it.
[22:26] This is a shared experience by two old people like you and me that we are now.
[22:29] We'll get to age in a moment.
[22:31] Last question on your daughter.
[22:32] No worries.
[22:33] Because...
[22:36] I know you've kept it out of the spotlight and I can understand that.
[22:39] Thank you.
[22:40] The obvious, well, I can because of someone of your profile.
[22:43] And it's like Sachin Tendulkar's son, whether he wants to play cricket.
[22:48] I get that.
[22:49] But I don't want to talk about performance purely from what you said your daughter likes to run.
[22:55] She chooses to do it.
[22:57] And this is, yeah, I mean, I probably won't get more involved unless she said mum and she came to me and said mum.
[23:07] Or until she's an adult.
[23:11] I hope she comes to you and says mum.
[23:13] The way the rest of the country knows you, I hope she comes to you and says, Mum.
[23:18] But your kids don't.
[23:19] No.
[23:20] Your kids don't because you're Mum.
[23:22] Yeah.
[23:22] Oh, I'm always Mum.
[23:23] Yes.
[23:23] Oh, always.
[23:24] One and only.
[23:26] Forever and ever.
[23:26] Like, I am Mum.
[23:28] And that's the way I like it.
[23:30] I want it that way.
[23:32] More of Cathy in a moment.
[23:33] Okay.
[23:34] I'm excited about this because up next on the show, we are hitting the road.
[23:40] Come on.
[23:41] Let's go.
[23:42] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Johannesburg.
[23:46] You are invited along for a hugely anticipated test series as the Aussies and me, and therefore you, travel South Africa in a three-test series banger.
[23:58] And South Africa make history.
[24:01] The ultimate test.
[24:03] The biggest opposition in Australia.
[24:05] Class of 2025.
[24:07] And they are the ICC test champions.
[24:13] Last time Australia were in South Africa for test cricket, yeah, it ended in tears.
[24:19] Literally.
[24:19] Absolutely, the footage is damning enough.
[24:21] You can see that he's taking something out of his pocket, using it on the ball.
[24:25] I'll do everything I can to make up for my mistake.
[24:29] and the damage it's caused.
[24:32] This time, who knows what will happen, but the Howie Games will take you into the commentary box.
[24:38] One mic.
[24:38] We just need one mic.
[24:40] Talk to the players.
[24:41] Out onto the street.
[24:42] The only way to see a city is just to leave the hotel and head out and ask directions and off you go.
[24:47] Into the inner playing sanctum.
[24:49] Are you sure it's OK we come in with you?
[24:50] Yeah, let's go.
[24:51] If you love cricket, you'll understand how pumped I am to be out here at the moment.
[24:57] Your Access All Areas Pass to the Australian's Tour of South Africa.
[25:02] The South Africa Test Tour Diaries dropping in your Howie Games feed next week.
[25:11] Let's get back to Cathy.
[25:13] You mentioned stall.
[25:14] Yes.
[25:15] So you went back.
[25:17] Yes.
[25:17] 30 years since that incredible.
[25:20] Okay, I'll say it quietly.
[25:21] 30 years.
[25:21] We'll say it quietly.
[25:24] And obviously, Carrie Richardson was there and the hype and what she did off scratch and we'll get to what you did off scratch.
[25:31] But what was it like going back?
[25:34] to, you'd done a lot before Stahl, and obviously Atlanta was 96, but in many ways I think Stahl is when you burst onto the national consciousness, who is this person?
[25:44] So what was it like returning?
[25:46] It's hilarious.
[25:48] It's hilarious because I think it's a joke when I watch the replay of that 96.
[25:53] I think it's trickery.
[25:54] It looks like...
[25:55] Hang on.
[25:56] Nah, I wasn't that far away.
[25:58] Let's do it.
[25:59] Let's put the headphones on.
[26:00] Oh, okay.
[26:00] So we couldn't do this nine years ago because we didn't have the technology.
[26:04] Oh, my goodness.
[26:05] So you and I are going to sit here and watch, and listen, I'll get Tommy out there to stop at various points, but if people haven't watched Cathy Freeman 400 stall,
[26:18] Look at the video and watch along with us because how far?
[26:24] How far is the rest of the field in front of you before we start this?
[26:26] All I know is it was – I couldn't see them around the corner.
[26:31] Right.
[26:31] So you couldn't see them around the corner.
[26:33] So this is you on the start line.
[26:35] Take yourself back 30 years ago before we started.
[26:38] How?
[26:40] Are you able to actually run your own race?
[26:42] What are you thinking at this point?
[26:43] Because they're on the horizon.
[26:45] Well, they're sort of like around the corner because this oval at Stoll is not your traditional 400-meter track shape.
[26:53] So it's all very – it's like being, you know, at a circus ride because you just – it's all a bit unpredictable and it's – you get a bit of – dare I say, you get – you lose your bearings somewhat, you know?
[27:07] Do you think you can win?
[27:09] Oh, I never not think I – you know, I always think I can win.
[27:13] That's a – it's interesting thought, thinking, because you've got to think.
[27:19] You've got to think that way.
[27:20] I presume so.
[27:21] Howie, you've got to.
[27:22] Yeah.
[27:22] You have to.
[27:23] There's no other way.
[27:24] Well, let's roll a bit of it and let's just have a listen.
[27:26] Can you play it?
[27:27] Yeah.
[27:34] So let's stop it there, Tommy.
[27:45] You heard the commentary.
[27:47] Oh, yes.
[27:48] So we haven't.
[27:49] We've seen two, four, six runners.
[27:51] We haven't sighted you.
[27:53] So we're 100 metres in.
[27:55] You're not anywhere near in shot.
[27:58] 100 metres in the race.
[27:59] What are we thinking?
[27:59] Oh.
[28:00] I am not thinking, my friend.
[28:02] I think you just can't.
[28:05] You know, I've talked in the past about thinking can just be a bit, it can create too much, too much.
[28:14] It can even start to take your energy.
[28:17] So I kind of got to that start line and I think I just know I want to win this thing.
[28:23] And, you know, it's the most natural thought for me.
[28:25] It's the most natural setting for me.
[28:27] I'm like a duck on water, fish in water, whatever.
[28:31] And this is – I feel so – I'm in my element and it's a race.
[28:36] And so the elite athlete –
[28:40] wannabe champion is, you know, Olympic champion.
[28:43] It's the 96th year.
[28:44] Yes.
[28:45] I'm, come on now.
[28:47] Let's get this thing happening.
[28:49] I love the answer.
[28:50] Okay, let's watch a bit more.
[28:52] Let's watch it.
[28:53] I'll mention when we see you for the first time.
[28:54] Okay, so we're at 100 metres in now.
[28:58] Oh, there's Freeman.
[28:59] Slice is running a different race at this point.
[29:02] I reckon 60 metres behind.
[29:03] I think it's trickery.
[29:05] Is this footage real?
[29:06] And that's why I wanted you to watch it.
[29:09] I am.
[29:09] Okay, pause it there, Tommy.
[29:11] So this is the first time we see you.
[29:13] Now you're 40 metres.
[29:15] You're probably just over halfway through the race.
[29:18] You know what you're like?
[29:19] What?
[29:19] They're the rabbit.
[29:22] And you're the greyhound.
[29:23] That's what we're watching.
[29:25] You're trying to chase them down.
[29:26] Remember, I used to train at the greyhound track at that track opposite the old Olympic Park.
[29:31] Did you?
[29:31] Yeah.
[29:31] At the greyhound track?
[29:32] Yeah.
[29:32] Surely they didn't race the rubber round for you.
[29:35] So you're just purely trying to be in a flow state here.
[29:39] Oh, relaxation is key.
[29:41] But when you – and I learnt this in 1991 watching the likes of Carl Lewis and especially him, the more relaxed you are, the more composed one is, you know, and just things are just simpler.
[29:58] And it's – yeah, it's just, you know, things come with a bit more ease even though it goes against –
[30:07] really, you know, in the heat of competition.
[30:11] But it's a bit of a – it's a flow state.
[30:16] That's the only way I can describe it.
[30:18] Can I just stop you for one sec?
[30:19] So my first real Olympic memories are watching Kyle Lewis in 84.
[30:24] That's probably –
[30:25] before you came along that's burnt into my brain, the Coliseum, the sort of pastel colours, him in red, the four gold medals.
[30:32] Oh, yes.
[30:32] We'll put those back on a set.
[30:33] We'll get back to store.
[30:34] Hold store.
[30:34] Yeah.
[30:35] So you've met Carl Lewis?
[30:36] Yes.
[30:37] Tell me about – this is a conversation where we can talk about anything.
[30:40] Tell me about Carl Lewis because if I think about it, I remember having –
[30:46] photo, newspaper scrappings up on my wall.
[30:50] And I knew nothing about athletics or Carl Lewis, but he was just this, he had that flat top.
[30:54] He was just incredible.
[30:56] You know what I mean?
[30:56] Like he was the perfect specimen of a person.
[30:59] As a mover, as a runner, textbook, textbook.
[31:03] And if I can draw up a comparison, say, with Michael Johnson, he's not textbook.
[31:09] And if he was sitting here now, he would probably agree.
[31:11] The straight backer.
[31:12] And it looks like he's leaning back a little bit.
[31:15] Whereas, yeah, I mean, I don't know if Michael would enjoy this comparison.
[31:19] But if you'd never watched running in your life, you could watch Carl Lewis and understand within a minute, that's always meant to be that.
[31:26] Oh, such a beautiful mover.
[31:28] So what type of dude's Carl Lewis?
[31:30] Oh, he's, you know, once I, I'm not quite sure why he allowed me his time.
[31:40] And I can't remember.
[31:42] We met in, he won't remember, but I was a 15-year-old, 14-year-old.
[31:48] When you met Carl Lewis.
[31:49] Yeah, I was at boarding school in Queensland and I met him and the late florist Griffith Joyner.
[31:54] Right, right.
[31:55] And, you know, being, again, wannabe champions in track and field.
[32:00] Was this in Australia?
[32:01] In LA.
[32:02] In LA.
[32:02] In LA.
[32:03] I was part of a team that we were a whole pack of kids who were, you know, this talent group.
[32:09] And they took us across to the States and had us exposed to this environment that was once in a lifetime.
[32:17] You're 15.
[32:18] It's Carlos and Flo Jo.
[32:19] I'm younger than 15, yeah.
[32:20] And, oh, yeah.
[32:23] You know, it went all gaga.
[32:25] It was like me.
[32:26] Like Cass did with you moments ago.
[32:30] Oh, please.
[32:31] But, yeah, and it just, again, talk about burning a memory in my brain, meaning that day stayed with me.
[32:39] So cool.
[32:39] Right, let's get back to store.
[32:41] Right, we've got 200 to go.
[32:42] Freeman's in the frame here, in red.
[32:45] Okay, roll it, Tommy.
[32:47] I'm about to release from home.
[32:49] You're shaking your head.
[32:50] I'm reaching out to you.
[32:52] Oh, my.
[32:53] You look so powerful.
[32:55] So you've just caught the field.
[33:00] Stop it there.
[33:01] Stop it there.
[33:01] Stop.
[33:02] Now, who's Doris in green that gave you the Don't Argue elbow?
[33:05] Who would know who that is?
[33:08] I think that's Wendy.
[33:10] Okay.
[33:11] I take the apologies.
[33:13] Jackie, she gave you a fair shove.
[33:14] Just tell me about your sunnies, by the way.
[33:17] Oakley.
[33:19] Oakley, right.
[33:19] So this is a nice sponsorship deal.
[33:21] Exactly.
[33:22] So she's given you a shove.
[33:24] But now, well, you can see the leader.
[33:27] So Jackie, so we're on the home stretch here.
[33:30] You're just eating them up.
[33:31] Oh, I think as soon as you know, you always – it's like –
[33:42] It's such a strange feeling being that far behind.
[33:45] But then you never – it's like a target lock.
[33:48] It's like a target lock hour.
[33:50] You just have to –
[33:52] And it's like this energy between myself and the other competitors ahead of me.
[33:58] It's like a target lock and there's no separation.
[34:01] It's such a strange thing.
[34:03] And I'm sure footballers may have experienced it with their teammates when they're kicking the ball to each other or, you know, passing or, you know, in terms of target lock on the getting the ball through the post.
[34:14] I don't know.
[34:15] But it's like an energetic target lock.
[34:18] And so there's no separation.
[34:22] And I was strong.
[34:25] I was fit.
[34:26] I was young.
[34:26] I was poised.
[34:27] You look so strong.
[34:29] Ready for the 96 Olympics, getting ready, primed for the great Murray-Joh-Parek and
[34:37] And obviously, I don't think I was thinking beyond 96, but, yeah, I wasn't looking towards Sydney.
[34:44] But when you're young and hungry and fit and every day you make sure that the world knows that you want to do this and you're ready to do it, then it shows.
[34:56] It shows in performance.
[34:58] Let's watch the last part.
[34:58] Can you do it?
[34:59] Can you do it?
[35:00] Can you do it?
[35:01] Can you do it?
[35:03] Can you do it?
[35:13] It has to be said that I hated losing too.
[35:16] Well, so that's a 400-meter race.
[35:19] I reckon you're in front for 35 centimeters.
[35:24] But it's the 35 centimeters that counts, Catherine.
[35:30] Even my stepdad who was a, I don't know if I told you, he worked for Tommy Smith.
[35:36] Right, the horse trainer.
[35:37] Yeah, yeah.
[35:38] And he thought I looked like a horse.
[35:40] That's what got him interested in me being a runner.
[35:44] But then apparently I have a nose for the line like great horses do.
[35:49] Well, you did there.
[35:51] So we'll get to what was it like going back to store.
[35:54] But what does looking back, as I said, that's my first sort of,
[35:59] You know, there'd been Commonwealth Games and stuff, but what, if anything, did that race do for you and people's awareness of you in your just general life?
[36:08] Well, to me, the most important part of your question is how it affected me because I've lived my whole life on being so acutely aware of my own...
[36:20] in a world.
[36:22] But I understood that in this moment that we're looking at here on the screen that I was capable of doing things I may not have once thought.
[36:34] And that learning about my true nature of the hatred of losing life,
[36:39] That competitive instinct that, and even John Anderson once talks about this eye of the tiger, which that was an interesting comment because I just thought it was a song or something from Rocky.
[36:54] But yeah, this killer instinct and the eye of the tiger, which I think I know what he means by that.
[37:02] Where, yeah, it's just this killer instinct.
[37:04] Where you will not be beaten.
[37:06] I just hated losing.
[37:07] I have no interest in losing.
[37:10] So what was it like going back 30 years later to this historic race?
[37:15] Well, it feels odd because the person I was that we're looking at there is a bit of a different person now, even though I'm the same person.
[37:26] But it's lovely to know that that's part of my story.
[37:33] It's a nice feeling.
[37:35] Yes.
[37:35] It's a beautiful, I would imagine.
[37:38] It was great to see you on the news back there.
[37:40] So we're talking, that's 30 years ago.
[37:43] So the next question, something I have struggled with.
[37:46] Struggled.
[37:46] So we were born in the same year, but you're a little bit older than me.
[37:49] Oh, thanks, man.
[37:51] You're 53 and I'm 52.
[37:53] The aging, getting older, how are you going with it?
[37:58] Do you embrace it?
[37:59] Do you rebel against it?
[38:01] How do you feel about it?
[38:02] No, I embrace it.
[38:03] Good for you.
[38:05] I was recently speaking at an asthma foundation event in Canberra recently, and I declared, I am a menopausal woman.
[38:20] I mean, you know.
[38:21] It is what it is.
[38:22] It is.
[38:23] And it is what it is.
[38:26] And I'm probably just more comfortable in my own skin than I have ever been.
[38:34] That's a fantastic attitude.
[38:36] Thank you.
[38:37] That's so great to hear.
[38:38] Thank you.
[38:38] What does that mean?
[38:39] Like, what are you more comfortable with?
[38:41] Are you happy with who you are or where you are or what you've achieved or your position in life, your family?
[38:46] Oh.
[38:47] I think I'm always looking for some outlet where I can pull that sort of similar energy that you see on the screen into something else.
[38:56] Do you still have that energy?
[38:58] Oh, without a doubt.
[38:59] Do you?
[39:00] Yeah, absolutely.
[39:01] I mean, okay, let's take a state of the nation, so to speak.
[39:06] Let's.
[39:07] I'm carrying an injury, so it's quite a serious injury.
[39:12] So this time next year, I will be able to jog and run and do the things that I love to do.
[39:19] So you've got like a knee issue or an ankle issue?
[39:22] Oh, I ruptured completely my patella tendon.
[39:25] How did you do that?
[39:26] I just, um, my past life caught up with me.
[39:30] Right.
[39:30] Wear and tear.
[39:31] So it was a wear and tear.
[39:32] And plus I prepared for a marathon.
[39:34] I ran a marathon.
[39:36] I've got a second damn black belt in Taekwondo.
[39:40] And the body just said, after I turned 50, Freeman, that's it.
[39:43] When did you run the marathon?
[39:44] Yeah.
[39:45] I went Sandy Cyclone was over in New York City, so that would have been do the fact check.
[39:54] Since you've been on, since you've.
[39:55] Actually, Ruba was around, yeah, so she's, yeah, 12 years ago.
[40:00] Okay, 12 years ago.
[40:01] And then what did you say about Taekwondo?
[40:03] I have a second damn black belt in Taekwondo.
[40:06] Of course you do.
[40:08] So what's the knee preventing you doing and what are you going to do about it and then what are you looking forward to doing?
[40:14] So this is part of ageing.
[40:16] It is.
[40:17] It is because I've clearly punished my body and my body is just like you need to calm down and take a great big rest.
[40:26] And it's been over three years and my pace of movement is very slow
[40:34] But the silver lining is that I've – you can still – you know, you have to be really self-aware.
[40:44] Like, you know, there were days without a doubt where I had the blues and I was like, oh –
[40:49] wah-wah moments.
[40:50] Because you can't get out and do stuff.
[40:52] Yeah.
[40:52] Like, you know, little things, Howie.
[40:55] Like, you know, I couldn't keep up with saying, you know, rushing to say goodbye to my daughter before she went through the school because, you know, kids, they move fast when they're off to school to see their friends.
[41:07] Um, dancing is something I miss, but my mindset is one of just keep it moving each day.
[41:16] Just do something that adds up to what you want to, you know, to that final outcome.
[41:22] So you're going to have a knee operation of some form?
[41:24] Oh, okay.
[41:24] So I had a knee operation two days after I fell, after I ruptured.
[41:33] And I've been doing rehab and then I've changed the language to training, physiotherapy.
[41:39] Changed the language from rehab to training.
[41:40] I like that expression.
[41:42] Yeah, positive.
[41:43] It's, you know, glass half full type mindset.
[41:46] So do you want to be able to run again?
[41:48] Oh, yeah, not like that girl up there.
[41:50] Well, no, I'm not expecting you to run on a 400 stall on 48 flat.
[41:54] I know.
[41:55] Oh, jeez.
[41:56] No, I definitely can see myself jogging, jogging again, and maybe a canter in horse terms, not a gallop.
[42:04] Okay.
[42:05] And how much...
[42:09] Well, it was your profession to look after yourself, but the average person through the 20s and 30s, you can get away without looking after yourself.
[42:16] And then once you get to the 40s and you start to reap what you sow, don't you?
[42:21] Yeah, definitely.
[42:22] You reap what you sow.
[42:23] Yes.
[42:23] So how are you going about being conscious of looking after yourself physically?
[42:30] Oh, I definitely need more rest.
[42:34] I definitely, nutrition's important.
[42:37] Yep.
[42:39] I need space.
[42:40] I need space when I feel mentally a bit fatigued.
[42:44] What does space mean?
[42:46] Well, for me, it's whether it's staying at home, pottering.
[42:53] I like housework I find can be, I think, rejuvenating for me.
[42:57] We are opposed on that discussion.
[43:00] Like just domestic bliss.
[43:01] Right, right.
[43:02] I've never put the term domestic and bliss in the same sentence or housework and rejuvenating, but I'm glad you can, Catherine.
[43:09] Well, so that's my mindset though because I can't avoid it.
[43:13] But certainly I find it refreshing pace, change of pace, you know, because life can be quite different at times for someone like myself.
[43:24] Yeah.
[43:24] You know, so I like to pull it back and just be a mum and, you know, just go about my, you know, household duties.
[43:34] That is the end of Cathy Freeman Part A.
[43:36] More of Cathy coming in Part B.
[43:39] And trust me, it just gets better and better and better.

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