# Trump’s Obsession with Retribution with Jonathan Karl

An episode of [Next Question with Katie Couric](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1134154895), 6 Nov 2025, 57 min.

Audio: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/69f9fea5a6ade25592fc8239/e/9a3d17a6-760b-4da0-a145-b38c012e235d/media.mp3

ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl has spent nearly a decade chronicling Trump–and being attacked by him. Trump has called him “a third-rate reporter,” “a real scumbag,” and worse. But he also keeps picking up Karl's calls. Karl joins Katie to talk about his new book Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America and shares sharp, insider insight into Trump's fixation on revenge, his loyalty-first Cabinet, and how his second term has reshaped the presidency… and the country. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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