# "Them With a Heart of Who" (w/ Bobby Finger + Lindsey Weber)

An episode of [Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1092361338), 28 Oct 2026, 1 h 47 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/f6816727-c503-47ac-a7ac-ae2700391b1e/6118e568-9268-48b8-b756-b4e9016c206b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=935c500f-8bb0-436b-ba7f-ae2700391b49

Who? Them? With us? Yes! It’s the podcasting event of the century for a very specific type of person as the hosts of the iconic and hilarious Who Weekly? — Bobby Finger and Lindsey Weber — finally join Matt + Bowen to talk about their fantastic new book I Want To Be Famous: When Everybody and Nobody is a Celebrity. The group discuss what it feels like to have started their podcasting at the same time ten years ago and arrive wherever we all are now, the concept of “Who-dom” and “Them-dom” and why both are important in a pop culture eco-system, and Rita Ora. Also, VH1, “I Love the 80’s” and its equally formative spinoffs, and Lacey Chabert. All this, Waterworld, the Girls revival, and Bethenny Frankel. You MUST get this book. Reader? We mean it. Xo! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's me, Matt, and my tour is on
[0:03] Speaker 1: sale now. This time, it's really Christmas. You can go
[0:05] Speaker 1: to www.mattrogersofficial.com. Podcasts are a visual medium. If you're not
[0:11] Speaker 1: watching me right now, I am holding in my hands
[0:13] Speaker 1: my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The
[0:16] Speaker 1: answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's
[0:19] Speaker 1: really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country and in
[0:23] Speaker 1: London and in Canada. That makes it a world tour.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Harry Styles, you're on burn notice. I'll see you soon.
[0:32] Speaker 2: I'm gonna mix up cottage cheese in a blender, and
[0:34] Speaker 2: I'm gonna say that it's cheesecake. That's not what that is.
[0:37] Speaker 2: It's offensive, it's gaslighting, it's making a costume out of cuisine.
[0:43] Speaker 2: Drag balons and gay bars not on my plate.
[0:45] Speaker 1: Look, man. Oh, I see. Bowen, look over there. Wow,
[0:49] Speaker 1: is that culture? Oh my goodness. Las Culturistas. Ding dong,
[0:56] Speaker 1: Las Culturistas calling. Did you hear what I heard before
[0:59] Speaker 1: while we were changing to get ready for this episode?
[1:03] Speaker 1: Rachel has never tried Diet Coke.
[1:04] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you guys, don't worry about it. Leave her alone.
[1:07] Speaker 1: Wait, Rachel, head of photo, has never tried Diet Coke?
[1:11] Speaker 1: What does head of photo have to do with it?
[1:13] Speaker 1: I'm just saying.
[1:15] Speaker 3: What do you think?
[1:15] Speaker 1: What did you think? It was okay. She doesn't drink coffee.
[1:21] Speaker 3: That's great.
[1:21] Speaker 1: Okay, so was it bullying that got you there?
[1:24] Speaker 3: Is there something about caffeine just as a molecule that
[1:30] Speaker 3: is tough? Oh, my God.
[1:36] Speaker 1: This is what I thought it would be. Can I
[1:39] Speaker 1: ask you something? Let me tell you something. This actually
[1:42] Speaker 1: speaks to a larger issue, which is this is why
[1:44] Speaker 1: you don't follow up on a podcast. This is why
[1:47] Speaker 1: when you have someone come on the podcast, you just
[1:49] Speaker 1: let them say whatever and you don't follow up because
[1:51] Speaker 1: you don't know what you could be uncovering. Someone could
[1:53] Speaker 1: have a heart problem.
[1:56] Speaker 3: There's reasons why. There's always a reason. She was not
[2:00] Speaker 3: avoiding it out of spite.
[2:02] Speaker 2: No.
[2:03] Speaker 1: And I hope you guys feel a lot of shame
[2:05] Speaker 1: for what you've done. And you love it. Sense and sensibility,
[2:13] Speaker 1: I'm telling you. That's what it is in play right now.
[2:16] Speaker 3: She has a heart problem and sense and sensibility.
[2:17] Speaker 1: One of them is like, I shan't... Yeah, exactly. That's
[2:20] Speaker 1: what the movie is about. I shan't try Diet Coke because...
[2:24] Speaker 1: You have to act within reason. One must not sip caffeine.
[2:28] Speaker 1: One must be all together.
[2:30] Speaker 3: You love one must culture. You are so one must.
[2:35] Speaker 1: I have never heard you call out my love and
[2:37] Speaker 1: lust for One must.
[2:40] Speaker 3: Matt, Matt, Matt dips into this sort of register. He loves,
[2:45] Speaker 3: he loves to play like a woman. No, I'm just
[2:47] Speaker 3: going to say a woman telling, being didactic, being like,
[2:51] Speaker 3: thank you. We were trying, we were trying to come
[2:52] Speaker 3: up with a genre of film and maybe, maybe our
[2:54] Speaker 3: guests can help with this because. I'm just going to say.
[2:56] Speaker 1: They know it all.
[2:57] Speaker 3: Well, before we bring our guests in, everyone calm down
[3:00] Speaker 3: because they think... Everyone, our listeners, people beyond our listenership
[3:05] Speaker 3: think that we are trying to be actual cultural critics
[3:08] Speaker 3: and have any salient cultural thought. The premise of this
[3:13] Speaker 3: podcast is that we don't and that we are not
[3:16] Speaker 3: qualified to talk about it. I don't know.
[3:17] Speaker 1: I think I give really salient takes.
[3:19] Speaker 3: Okay. But... Um, we were, Matt and I were trying
[3:23] Speaker 3: to come up with the genre of film last night
[3:26] Speaker 3: with a fellow podcaster, Amy Poehler, because she was like,
[3:29] Speaker 3: what is it called when it's notes on a scandal?
[3:32] Speaker 3: It's doubt when like, um, like, you know, uh, a woman.
[3:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[3:38] Speaker 3: Sort of like a buttoned up woman is wagging her
[3:40] Speaker 3: finger going, I see what's going on here.
[3:42] Speaker 1: A finger film. We called it a finger drama. Finger drama.
[3:45] Speaker 1: A finger drama. A finger drama. One where it's like,
[3:47] Speaker 1: you are not young. It's like, that's a finger drama.
[3:52] Speaker 1: Wherein Dame Judi Dench type waves a finger.
[3:55] Speaker 3: And then what happens is that woman gets a finger
[3:59] Speaker 3: waved in her face by the end of the movie.
[4:01] Speaker 1: By society and culture.
[4:02] Speaker 3: By society and culture, for sure.
[4:04] Speaker 1: Think about that.
[4:05] Speaker 3: Think about that.
[4:06] Speaker 1: So anyway, we're all jacked up on caffeine behind and
[4:09] Speaker 1: in front of the camera. And we're so excited because
[4:13] Speaker 1: I wonder if this has ever been said to them before.
[4:16] Speaker 1: Your favorite podcast, favorite podcast, in the words of true them,
[4:21] Speaker 1: Chapel Roan. Based on themmy drag queen, Sasha Colby's original,
[4:27] Speaker 1: your favorite drag queen's favorite drag queen. She being a
[4:30] Speaker 1: who to maybe some of you. Katie's out there.
[4:34] Speaker 3: But a them to... I would say Sasha is a
[4:36] Speaker 3: them to thems.
[4:37] Speaker 1: She was a them to Chapel Roan, and that's all
[4:39] Speaker 1: that really mattered at the end.
[4:40] Speaker 3: Of the day. There you go. They host Two Weekly,
[4:43] Speaker 3: the podcast where you learn everything about the celebrities you don't.
[4:47] Speaker 3: True legends. True... True beautiful minds. Authors. Very authors now.
[4:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, show it.
[4:57] Speaker 3: This is... I want to be famous.
[4:59] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[5:02] Speaker 3: Um, I want to be famous when everybody and nobody's
[5:04] Speaker 3: a celebrity.
[5:05] Speaker 4: That's exactly how you read it.
[5:06] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[5:07] Speaker 3: Nope. That's it.
[5:08] Speaker 1: I love chapter six.
[5:10] Speaker 4: That's how you do it.
[5:11] Speaker 1: I actually opened to chapter 10. Um, okay. Um, it
[5:14] Speaker 1: all jokes aside.
[5:15] Speaker 3: This is, I, as Matt and I are writing our
[5:18] Speaker 3: own book, We go, oh, this is how you're supposed
[5:21] Speaker 3: to do that.
[5:22] Speaker 1: Bowen goes, I think we have to stop and like
[5:25] Speaker 1: write the book better. And I was like, huh. No,
[5:30] Speaker 1: not that we're not doing.
[5:31] Speaker 3: No, I'm just, I just, I read this book and
[5:34] Speaker 3: it's honestly, it's inspiring and motivating in the sense that
[5:37] Speaker 3: I'm just like, right. Like we owe it to ourselves
[5:40] Speaker 3: to write like a great book like this. Yes.
[5:44] Speaker 2: And.
[5:45] Speaker 1: The reason we're inspired by it is because it is
[5:47] Speaker 1: not only funny, it's super smart. It's exhaustive. I mean,
[5:50] Speaker 1: it's sourced. This is really, I mean, it's the pop
[5:53] Speaker 1: culture book of the year in terms of my, what
[5:56] Speaker 1: I think and my culture critic brain. Who the fuck
[6:00] Speaker 1: am I?
[6:00] Speaker 3: Hey, but you know what I mean?
[6:02] Speaker 1: Who them? He refuses to accept that he's a them.
[6:06] Speaker 1: And I need you guys.
[6:07] Speaker 3: I don't think our guests would say that I'm a them.
[6:09] Speaker 1: Well, let's bring them in. You're a lucky day.
[6:12] Speaker 3: Everyone, please welcome, alphabetically, Bobby Finger and Lindsey Weber.
[6:17] Speaker 4: And you're kind of a them.
[6:19] Speaker 1: He's a full them.
[6:20] Speaker 4: But you know what that means? We can't talk about
[6:22] Speaker 4: you on the podcast.
[6:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't.
[6:23] Speaker 1: Yes, it's over.
[6:24] Speaker 3: And that's so beautiful. No, no, no. I think this
[6:26] Speaker 3: is what I want to present to you guys. And
[6:29] Speaker 3: I've read it by man, by the people in this room.
[6:31] Speaker 3: I might be... A them to who's and a who's
[6:37] Speaker 3: to them's. And you guys have explored this.
[6:39] Speaker 4: A them to who's and a who to them's.
[6:42] Speaker 3: To who's I am a them, maybe, and to them's
[6:44] Speaker 3: I am a who.
[6:46] Speaker 4: Interesting. You've come across them's in which you are a
[6:48] Speaker 4: who in those situations?
[6:50] Speaker 1: Never. He has never come across a them. Reese Witherspoon
[6:54] Speaker 1: flagged him down at the Emmys.
[6:56] Speaker 2: You were with Amy Poehler last night, you said.
[6:58] Speaker 3: Both of us were. Amy Poehler, I think, would call
[7:00] Speaker 3: you a them. Because we had the same job. You
[7:03] Speaker 3: know what I mean?
[7:04] Speaker 1: And your job was what? What was the job?
[7:09] Speaker 3: Being a podcaster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[7:12] Speaker 1: It is an interesting phenomenon, though, to be in the position.
[7:16] Speaker 1: And by the way, can you just break down what's
[7:18] Speaker 1: a them and what's a who for those who have
[7:20] Speaker 1: not been able to read it?
[7:22] Speaker 3: But you guys, you guys go ahead.
[7:23] Speaker 2: OK, we kind of use a dated metaphor at this point, but.
[7:26] Speaker 2: Picture it. You're at the grocery store in, let's say, 2001. Yes.
[7:28] Speaker 4: Or you're at a Hudson News in the airport.
[7:30] Speaker 2: A Hudson News in the airport.
[7:31] Speaker 1: Today, in 2026. They have more magazines.
[7:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[7:33] Speaker 2: You're getting a $ 10 bag of Gardettos or Chex Mix.
[7:37] Speaker 1: Yes.
[7:38] Speaker 2: And to your left, you see a wall of magazines.
[7:42] Speaker 2: On the cover of those magazines are celebrities. The celebrities
[7:46] Speaker 2: that you go, oh, them, like Denzel Washington. Jennifer Garner,
[7:50] Speaker 2: Bowen Yang. Those are them.
[7:53] Speaker 3: Oh, I know who that is. I love them.
[7:55] Speaker 2: Most of the celebrities, though, you will not recognize, and
[7:58] Speaker 2: those are the who's. Those are the ones that make
[7:59] Speaker 2: you go, who's that?
[8:00] Speaker 4: They're clearly prominent. It is obviously relative. It's obviously an
[8:04] Speaker 4: answer to kind of our splintered celebrity landscape. Again, people
[8:08] Speaker 4: will think you're them who pay attention to the stuff
[8:10] Speaker 4: that you do. But then sometimes you break out of them-dom,
[8:13] Speaker 4: and you're Tom Cruise, and everyone knows who you are.
[8:16] Speaker 1: Or you're Jesus.
[8:17] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[8:18] Speaker 1: I think it's them.
[8:19] Speaker 3: It's them. Jesus, Beyonce, Taylor Swift.
[8:21] Speaker 1: Jesus, Beyonce, Taylor Swift are basically the them-iest them.
[8:24] Speaker 3: Kind of.
[8:25] Speaker 1: And so my argument was that Bo and Yang, like
[8:28] Speaker 1: he in several ways is now firmly a them, but
[8:33] Speaker 1: it is interesting because there's a self-consciousness that comes with
[8:36] Speaker 1: that that I think is based on your humility. But
[8:39] Speaker 1: it is interesting because it is inarguable that you have
[8:42] Speaker 1: crossed that threshold into them.
[8:44] Speaker 3: Whether or not that's true, I think this is what
[8:46] Speaker 3: maybe I would say to you. To all three of you,
[8:49] Speaker 3: which is, and I wouldn't even say, to call it
[8:52] Speaker 3: imposter syndrome feels too simplistic. It's like, if it is true,
[8:58] Speaker 3: let's say I am a them, I will always think
[9:02] Speaker 3: of myself as a who.
[9:03] Speaker 4: Yes, and I think that's why we're obsessed with seeing
[9:07] Speaker 4: like your Tina Fey moment or kind of these little
[9:10] Speaker 4: things like Owen Teal on the plane. Like fascinating moments
[9:15] Speaker 4: where obviously the person is like, I'm fun, I'm still
[9:19] Speaker 4: talking to the people, I'm normal. But then everyone else
[9:22] Speaker 4: is like, you can't just say Andrew Garfield's on the plane.
[9:26] Speaker 4: You're too famous for that because now so many people
[9:28] Speaker 4: are seeing that and it's a little weird. And it's like, yeah,
[9:32] Speaker 4: but you're at this space where you're kind of like
[9:34] Speaker 4: in between. You're just trying to be yourself. And that's why.
[9:36] Speaker 3: But in that moment for Owen, I think that kind
[9:38] Speaker 3: of shot him into like a little bit up the
[9:40] Speaker 3: them ladder. Totally.
[9:41] Speaker 4: Because I think he realized like, oh God, I am
[9:43] Speaker 4: in the headlines. I'm in the headline now.
[9:45] Speaker 1: I have the ability to create culture by doing something.
[9:50] Speaker 4: Doing literally nothing.
[9:52] Speaker 3: Existing. Existing.
[9:53] Speaker 4: Being like, the plane came down, here I am.
[9:55] Speaker 1: And it didn't crash. It's funny because it's like, a
[9:58] Speaker 1: lot of, I think, our generation just because of like
[10:02] Speaker 1: exactly what you write about, the way the attention economy works,
[10:06] Speaker 1: the way that media works, et cetera, we all sort
[10:09] Speaker 1: of cut our teeth looking at the thems and sort
[10:12] Speaker 1: of pointing at the thems. And then in doing that,
[10:15] Speaker 1: because that medium became very popular, you sort of become
[10:20] Speaker 1: the thing where something odd will happen sometimes where we'll
[10:24] Speaker 1: say something on this podcast. There's never been a hooier
[10:27] Speaker 1: thing than this. I said I auditioned for It Ends
[10:30] Speaker 1: With Us. And I said it was a weird audition
[10:37] Speaker 1: for me because I had to cry and be straight.
[10:41] Speaker 4: Yeah, that was so funny.
[10:42] Speaker 1: For Blake Lively, because I was reading for, it's the
[10:46] Speaker 1: who who plays the guy who's the lead of the
[10:48] Speaker 1: movie that's not Justin Baldoni.
[10:50] Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
[10:51] Speaker 4: Oh, the other guy, Brendan, Brendan, Brendan.
[10:53] Speaker 1: Splenor. Splenor.
[10:55] Speaker 4: Very hot.
[10:55] Speaker 1: Right, so this is the who-iest thing I've ever heard. So,
[10:59] Speaker 1: and I said that. I would love this for you.
[11:01] Speaker 1: And People Magazine. My God. People Magazine said, Matt Rogers
[11:06] Speaker 1: said he had to cry and be straight for It
[11:09] Speaker 1: Ends With Us audition.
[11:09] Speaker 4: Incredible headline.
[11:10] Speaker 1: And I was so. Yeah. It bummed me out. I'm sorry.
[11:14] Speaker 3: Because it's deliberate.
[11:15] Speaker 1: It bummed me out because it called out a who-iness
[11:19] Speaker 1: which was unbecoming for me and it embarrassed me. So
[11:23] Speaker 1: I understand when you say, God, don't put me in
[11:26] Speaker 1: that position of being perceived because it's so much more
[11:29] Speaker 1: comfortable to be on this side of it when the
[11:32] Speaker 1: perception was not what you wanted. What you wanted was
[11:35] Speaker 1: to entertain people.
[11:36] Speaker 4: And then suddenly- Yes, and the story you told was
[11:38] Speaker 4: very funny.
[11:39] Speaker 3: Right.
[11:40] Speaker 4: Relatable, maybe for some.
[11:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
[11:44] Speaker 4: And of course, now unfortunately your show is being watched
[11:47] Speaker 4: on 1.8 speed.
[11:49] Speaker 1: Yes.
[11:50] Speaker 4: By people magazine writers.
[11:51] Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
[11:52] Speaker 4: And that's kind of a privilege.
[11:53] Speaker 1: Hunting.
[11:54] Speaker 4: And a responsibility.
[11:55] Speaker 3: Oh, they're transcribing. They're not, they're using AI. They're not,
[11:58] Speaker 3: they're not listening.
[11:59] Speaker 4: Remember when they used to have to watch two speed?
[12:01] Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
[12:01] Speaker 4: And like really, I used to do that.
[12:03] Speaker 2: I used to have to do that. The only thing
[12:04] Speaker 2: better than being a who, because we do both I
[12:06] Speaker 2: think firmly believe that as the like peak of celebrity.
[12:08] Speaker 3: Totally.
[12:09] Speaker 2: It's the most freeing you can be as a famous person.
[12:12] Speaker 2: but the only thing better is being a them with
[12:14] Speaker 2: a heart of who.
[12:15] Speaker 3: Yeah. With a heart of who.
[12:16] Speaker 2: If you have a heart of who, I think that
[12:18] Speaker 2: that's like still very good. Title of that, them with
[12:20] Speaker 2: a heart of who.
[12:21] Speaker 1: Oh my God.
[12:22] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[12:23] Speaker 3: Well, what's brilliant about the binary of them and who
[12:27] Speaker 3: is that it is like a grim index as to like,
[12:31] Speaker 3: They're not being a middle class anymore in entertainment.
[12:33] Speaker 1: Literally. Yes.
[12:35] Speaker 3: Like, fuck.
[12:36] Speaker 1: It is.
[12:37] Speaker 4: Okay, but the positive is that because everybody is a
[12:40] Speaker 4: them to somebody, so many more people can work in entertainment.
[12:46] Speaker 1: Yes.
[12:46] Speaker 3: Absolutely.
[12:48] Speaker 2: Us.
[12:48] Speaker 1: All of us here. Anyone.
[12:49] Speaker 3: All of us here.
[12:49] Speaker 4: You know, right? So you... can create your own audience forever.
[12:54] Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
[12:55] Speaker 2: They'll follow you.
[12:56] Speaker 4: And do whatever you want to do.
[12:57] Speaker 1: It's just, I really love, and when I say exhaustive,
[13:01] Speaker 1: I do mean that because I feel like we know
[13:03] Speaker 1: a lot about pop culture, but I hadn't really thought
[13:06] Speaker 1: about the advent of the tabloid industry. You know what
[13:10] Speaker 1: I mean?
[13:11] Speaker 3: As it dates back to Luella Parsons and Hedda Hopper.
[13:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, Hedda Hopper and the fact that they... Quiz us
[13:16] Speaker 1: on the book. No, I can tell you read it.
[13:18] Speaker 4: I can tell you read it.
[13:21] Speaker 1: I can tell.
[13:22] Speaker 2: Yes!
[13:22] Speaker 1: I mean, we're scholars of this now. But when I
[13:26] Speaker 1: watched Feud, and obviously I understood a little bit more
[13:29] Speaker 1: through that seminal text, but it was really interesting to
[13:33] Speaker 1: think about it as something that was not... There was
[13:36] Speaker 1: no shame in it. You know what I mean? Because
[13:39] Speaker 1: it was a necessity. Whereas now, because it's become what
[13:45] Speaker 1: it's become, there's a lot of shame in it and
[13:47] Speaker 1: the shamelessness of a who. is, I had never heard
[13:53] Speaker 1: it like you did in this book, like it was respected.
[13:56] Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
[13:57] Speaker 4: Yeah, like our culture has kind of just folded in
[14:00] Speaker 4: on itself where we're now like, get the bag. And
[14:02] Speaker 4: we don't really care necessarily as much. I mean, also
[14:06] Speaker 4: more famous celebrities are doing more shameless things because they're
[14:11] Speaker 4: making less money elsewhere or they're seeing influencers take their
[14:14] Speaker 4: jobs and they're like, no, sweetie, I'm selling the coffee.
[14:17] Speaker 4: You are not doing that.
[14:20] Speaker 2: I'll go eat the chicken.
[14:21] Speaker 3: Totally.
[14:21] Speaker 2: The chicken was beneath them 20 years ago. Now they're like,
[14:23] Speaker 2: I can't get enough chicken.
[14:24] Speaker 1: Viola Davis is eating the chicken.
[14:26] Speaker 4: Everyone is eating the chicken.
[14:28] Speaker 3: You ate the chicken. I ate the chicken, but unless
[14:30] Speaker 3: I got a lot of flack for it.
[14:31] Speaker 1: And I did the Who version of chicken, which is
[14:33] Speaker 1: chicken versus.
[14:34] Speaker 3: Okay.
[14:36] Speaker 1: They won't even let you eat the main chicken no
[14:38] Speaker 1: he was kind enough to so he did the themmy
[14:40] Speaker 1: chicken chicken moment organic chicken.
[14:42] Speaker 3: Because someone dropped out at the last minute is that actually.
[14:45] Speaker 1: True well I don't know was it someone from Wicked
[14:49] Speaker 1: no oh okay I just.
[14:51] Speaker 4: The chicken, we've talked about this recently, but the chicken
[14:53] Speaker 4: thing has really turned for me. And I don't mean
[14:55] Speaker 4: like it's gone rotten, but although that's a pretty good, whatever.
[14:59] Speaker 4: It used to be like, I'm so delighted by the chicken.
[15:01] Speaker 4: We're seeing a new side to celebrities. Now I'm like,
[15:03] Speaker 4: we're torturing them. We're torturing them because we cannot get
[15:07] Speaker 4: them to say anything or do anything anymore. No profiles,
[15:10] Speaker 4: all that stuff, all the fun stuff we used to love.
[15:12] Speaker 4: Now we have to put them on a show in
[15:13] Speaker 4: which we torture them. Until their defenses are down and
[15:17] Speaker 4: they're choking.
[15:17] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[15:18] Speaker 4: And then they maybe say something.
[15:19] Speaker 3: Do we think that the pendulum has swung back the
[15:21] Speaker 3: other way so hard in that podcast like this or
[15:25] Speaker 3: like friendly spaces for celebrities to come and not be
[15:28] Speaker 3: asked hard ball questions?
[15:29] Speaker 2: I think so.
[15:29] Speaker 3: Like, I think, like, and maybe it'll just keep, like,
[15:32] Speaker 3: just swinging back and forth. Yeah. Anyway, I think now,
[15:36] Speaker 3: you guys start off the book by saying, you know,
[15:39] Speaker 3: 2010's killed the cover star, right?
[15:40] Speaker 1: That's chapter two.
[15:41] Speaker 3: No, you passed it. Chapter two.
[15:42] Speaker 4: One, we're talking about Meghan Markle.
[15:44] Speaker 3: That's right. Oh, fabulous.
[15:44] Speaker 1: Which is, again, your bookends to, you know, Meghan and
[15:49] Speaker 1: Rita are just perfect. Two icons.
[15:50] Speaker 2: Well, you have the permanent who at the end, Rita. Yeah.
[15:53] Speaker 2: And then you have the most... I think, iconic and
[15:56] Speaker 2: notable and recognizable story of someone that went from who
[15:59] Speaker 2: to them in an instant, right? In a span of
[16:03] Speaker 2: like two months.
[16:03] Speaker 3: That's right. And then, I don't know, on this day, October,
[16:07] Speaker 3: what is it, 20th? Yeah. 2026, it's like, I was
[16:10] Speaker 3: thinking about this, it's like, well, is Meghan Markle like
[16:15] Speaker 3: straddling the line a little bit? No, I think she's big.
[16:20] Speaker 2: She's royal.
[16:21] Speaker 3: She's royal. But I think people have.
[16:23] Speaker 4: A lot to say about what she chooses to do.
[16:25] Speaker 3: That's right.
[16:26] Speaker 4: And that is kind of the who, them thing that
[16:28] Speaker 4: we're obsessed with.
[16:29] Speaker 1: Yes.
[16:30] Speaker 4: Like, is she, like, is she too themmy to do this?
[16:33] Speaker 2: Right.
[16:33] Speaker 4: And it's like, she's got to do what every other
[16:35] Speaker 4: celebrity's got to do.
[16:36] Speaker 3: That's right. But just, I think we can index the things, like,
[16:39] Speaker 3: her little, like, bag moments where you're just like, oh, well,
[16:42] Speaker 3: she's choosing, like, edible flowers. You know what I mean? Like,
[16:45] Speaker 3: that's what, like, now we're getting, like, we're drilling down into, like, Well,
[16:48] Speaker 3: does the thing, does the commodity that's being pushed, is
[16:51] Speaker 3: that hooey or is that dummy?
[16:53] Speaker 4: Right, it's not even just doing spawn, it's what is
[16:55] Speaker 4: the spawn for?
[16:56] Speaker 3: Exactly.
[16:56] Speaker 2: And why is this, like, why are you selling me
[16:58] Speaker 2: edible flowers? Why am I trusting you that these flowers
[17:01] Speaker 2: are indeed edible? You know?
[17:03] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:04] Speaker 2: I have a lot of faith in her.
[17:05] Speaker 4: You don't believe that flowers are edible?
[17:06] Speaker 2: I do, but then I find myself wondering, why do
[17:09] Speaker 2: I believe that?
[17:09] Speaker 1: Yeah. And why am I thinking about this at all?
[17:12] Speaker 1: And why am I thinking about it? I feel like
[17:14] Speaker 1: that's another thing that speaks to, I think, theminess and
[17:17] Speaker 1: the thems is usually it is 90% conjecture about them
[17:22] Speaker 1: because they exist in our minds already. It's like once
[17:29] Speaker 1: you become a them, you become a part of someone's brain.
[17:33] Speaker 1: And I think that the thing with Meghan Markle is
[17:35] Speaker 1: she's now a part of our brain. Like you could
[17:37] Speaker 1: say her name out on the streets and like 15,
[17:40] Speaker 1: 20 people around you would turn around. And so, because
[17:44] Speaker 1: they all have ideas about what that might mean. And
[17:46] Speaker 1: so there's a lot of like projecting. There's a ton
[17:50] Speaker 1: of projecting on Taylor Swift. There's a ton of projecting
[17:52] Speaker 1: on Beyonce. There's a ton of projecting on Jesus.
[17:55] Speaker 4: Totally.
[17:56] Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Whereas like with Who's, they're
[18:00] Speaker 1: constantly trying to give you information.
[18:02] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[18:03] Speaker 1: Yes.
[18:03] Speaker 4: And that's, you know, why we love them. That's because
[18:06] Speaker 4: that's who we're stuck with in terms of like the
[18:09] Speaker 4: celebrity ecosphere that we love from our youth, like the
[18:12] Speaker 4: magazines and like the profiles and like.
[18:14] Speaker 1: The fun stuff. Yeah.
[18:16] Speaker 4: Like we're obsessed with that.
[18:17] Speaker 3: So with chapter two, it's like, I think the magazine
[18:20] Speaker 3: cover and the profile is the function that it's serving
[18:23] Speaker 3: is is that it's just a trophy for the person
[18:28] Speaker 3: and not necessarily the vehicle for like more press or more,
[18:31] Speaker 3: or for them to be more knowable. It's not like
[18:34] Speaker 3: developmental for this person as a star. It's like, well,
[18:36] Speaker 3: Tom Cruise is on the cover of GQ for Digger,
[18:39] Speaker 3: but it's already like, what do we not know about
[18:41] Speaker 3: Tom Cruise? You know what I mean?
[18:42] Speaker 4: Well, he's also not going to give anything.
[18:44] Speaker 3: Exactly.
[18:44] Speaker 2: And he doesn't.
[18:44] Speaker 4: In that way.
[18:45] Speaker 1: And what he gave ultimately that became the narrative was
[18:48] Speaker 1: the picture.
[18:49] Speaker 3: Right.
[18:49] Speaker 2: A very strange picture.
[18:50] Speaker 1: A very strange picture. And so it's almost like, okay,
[18:54] Speaker 1: now we have this, it's almost like when a celebrity,
[18:57] Speaker 1: like you talk about Denzel giving advice to Michael B.
[19:01] Speaker 2: Jordan. Yeah.
[19:01] Speaker 1: It's like when a huge, massive celebrity of that time
[19:06] Speaker 1: gives advice, whether it's just by, you know, like symbolically,
[19:13] Speaker 1: we glean everything from the Tom Cruise picture, which is
[19:15] Speaker 1: kind of like showing people, he's showing people how to be,
[19:17] Speaker 1: he thinks.
[19:18] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
[19:19] Speaker 1: And Denzel is literally telling this younger, you know, generational
[19:23] Speaker 1: talent that he sees himself in, like, this is my advice. Meanwhile,
[19:27] Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know. Would it be better for
[19:29] Speaker 1: Michael B. Jordan to only appear in acting? Maybe he
[19:32] Speaker 1: is an exception to the rule. Maybe he is now
[19:34] Speaker 1: in his Oscar winning era, box office marquee era. Maybe
[19:38] Speaker 1: he can still do that and live the Denzel way
[19:42] Speaker 1: and do the Denzel version of fame. But, I think
[19:45] Speaker 1: that what's so clear is that that's disappearing. I mean,
[19:49] Speaker 1: you could probably list on one hand now the actual
[19:53] Speaker 1: people that all of our parents would know. that's under 30.
[19:59] Speaker 1: I don't even know if my dad would know who
[20:01] Speaker 1: Sidney Sweeney is. And she's kind of made for him.
[20:04] Speaker 4: Long Island, right? Yeah. It would have to be like, oh,
[20:13] Speaker 4: we do watch The Diplomat.
[20:15] Speaker 1: Right.
[20:15] Speaker 4: We love Carrie.
[20:16] Speaker 3: Yes.
[20:17] Speaker 2: Carrie Russell.
[20:18] Speaker 4: Carrie Russell.
[20:19] Speaker 2: My parents know Carrie Russell.
[20:20] Speaker 4: And I think that's the thing where it's like, you know,
[20:22] Speaker 4: my dad also surprises me. But then I realize he's
[20:25] Speaker 4: watching every Apple TV show and I'm like, oh, I
[20:27] Speaker 4: know exactly who he knows.
[20:28] Speaker 1: But that is.
[20:29] Speaker 4: Kind of weirdly this like little silo, Apple TV show,
[20:34] Speaker 4: that I don't watch.
[20:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, who did?
[20:36] Speaker 4: My dad.
[20:36] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[20:37] Speaker 4: Like that's... his knowledge base, right? That's who he considers
[20:41] Speaker 4: to be famous or whatever. We also have a gajillion
[20:44] Speaker 4: TV shows now, right? That's also kind of the problem
[20:47] Speaker 4: or whatever.
[20:48] Speaker 3: Is it a little scary to like assign who and
[20:53] Speaker 3: them to like, let's say, a platform? Because you go,
[20:55] Speaker 3: because Apple TV has all of the thems. Yeah. But
[20:58] Speaker 3: no one wants, but all the shows are who's.
[21:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
[21:01] Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
[21:01] Speaker 2: Yes.
[21:02] Speaker 3: Like is that, is this a bridge too far?
[21:04] Speaker 4: Well, it's like prestige-y, right? Like being prestige is like them.
[21:07] Speaker 2: Prestige who is like, a great place to be. An
[21:11] Speaker 2: Apple TV prestige shoe platform.
[21:12] Speaker 1: Yes, 100%. Because it's like, it's all the thems in
[21:17] Speaker 1: shows you've never heard about.
[21:18] Speaker 2: It's like Jennifer Connelly is in, I think, 100 seasons
[21:20] Speaker 2: of a show that I have never watched, and that's crazy.
[21:22] Speaker 1: That's crazy. You know what's been on for a really
[21:25] Speaker 1: long time and gets critical acclaim up its ass, and
[21:28] Speaker 1: the people that love it love it, and maybe not
[21:31] Speaker 1: even everyone in this room knows what it is, Slow Horses.
[21:34] Speaker 2: I knew you were going to say Slow Horses. I
[21:35] Speaker 2: love Slow Horses so much.
[21:36] Speaker 1: Work. So it's a them show to you. To me,
[21:39] Speaker 1: it's a them show, but that's the thing. But it's
[21:41] Speaker 1: on the Who platform.
[21:42] Speaker 2: You talk about, you enter a room and you say,
[21:45] Speaker 2: who's watched Slow Horses? They look at you like you're
[21:46] Speaker 2: a psycho.
[21:47] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[21:48] Speaker 2: And it's like, I just want to talk about how
[21:49] Speaker 2: good Jack Loudon is this season, but I have no
[21:52] Speaker 2: one to discuss it with.
[21:53] Speaker 4: Right.
[21:53] Speaker 2: You know?
[21:53] Speaker 3: And that was what, and yeah, as we're all like
[21:55] Speaker 3: culture lovers, like that was, that's what I miss the
[21:58] Speaker 3: most is like literally. Yeah. If I had known you
[22:01] Speaker 3: back during peak Grey's Anatomy, we would have, we, that.
[22:05] Speaker 1: Would have been a podcast.
[22:06] Speaker 3: I know. And yet there's just not, there isn't that
[22:09] Speaker 3: ubiquity anymore where it's just like.
[22:11] Speaker 1: Like we, one of our first performances we ever did
[22:13] Speaker 1: together was called Grey's Anatomy Drag. And it was Grey's
[22:16] Speaker 1: Anatomy Improv.
[22:17] Speaker 4: So you were doing like hospital words?
[22:19] Speaker 3: So I was Christina and he was Meredith and we
[22:21] Speaker 3: were just doing.
[22:21] Speaker 1: Christina and Meredith, he was in like a curly black
[22:24] Speaker 1: wig and I was in my blonde wig. It really
[22:26] Speaker 1: was giving more Izzy, but that Izzy, Christina wasn't legible
[22:31] Speaker 1: like Meredith and Christina. So we did bad improv to it.
[22:35] Speaker 1: And I think that we got away with how bad
[22:37] Speaker 1: it was-ish because people could at least recognize the concept.
[22:40] Speaker 1: Whereas now it's like, what from television do you say
[22:44] Speaker 1: is outside of heated rivalry?
[22:46] Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
[22:47] Speaker 4: I mean, housewives, it's different hubs, right? Like it is,
[22:51] Speaker 4: there is enough housewives, obviously there are enough housewives people
[22:54] Speaker 4: to do anything involving that and people will show up, right?
[22:56] Speaker 4: Like that's true. What's gagging me right now is the
[23:00] Speaker 4: Nathan Fielder of it all.
[23:01] Speaker 3: I know.
[23:01] Speaker 4: Is this guy the most famous guy on the planet?
[23:03] Speaker 4: Like it's crazy.
[23:04] Speaker 1: He's such a them now. What happened?
[23:06] Speaker 4: I mean, it's incredible to see Like, that's the conversation
[23:10] Speaker 4: right now.
[23:10] Speaker 3: Yes. Did you guys see the movie? Oh, yeah. We
[23:13] Speaker 3: had to tell Trevor to walk out of the room
[23:14] Speaker 3: because we discussed it earlier, but I'd avoid spoilers.
[23:16] Speaker 4: Trevor, you're going to love it.
[23:18] Speaker 3: No, he's going to love it. It's made for Trevor.
[23:19] Speaker 3: You're going to love it, Trevor. The way that Sidney
[23:20] Speaker 3: Sweeney is made for Matt's dad is the same. I
[23:23] Speaker 3: love the rehearsal. Of course.
[23:26] Speaker 1: You know what? I'm going to text my dad right now.
[23:28] Speaker 3: If he knows who Sidney Sweeney is.
[23:30] Speaker 1: Okay, great.
[23:31] Speaker 2: Great exercise.
[23:31] Speaker 1: I hope he does. I hope he does. Because now
[23:34] Speaker 1: it's sort of a thing. I'm just going to say, Dad.
[23:36] Speaker 1: She's kind of like a... dad do you kind.
[23:39] Speaker 4: Of represents a lot too she might you know.
[23:41] Speaker 3: Of course she does yeah she.
[23:43] Speaker 4: Kind of is in our culture in a very specific
[23:45] Speaker 4: way yes aside from what she's in and she was such.
[23:48] Speaker 2: A who in white lotus yeah but i always forget
[23:51] Speaker 2: that she was in it yeah yeah but now i
[23:53] Speaker 2: think she's like she's were you saying that she's a
[23:56] Speaker 2: them like i think of her as a them in
[23:59] Speaker 2: a sort of expansive like It goes back in time.
[24:03] Speaker 3: It's like an Anne Margaret all the way up to
[24:05] Speaker 3: like a Pamela Anderson.
[24:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a Lindsay Lohan.
[24:09] Speaker 3: It's a them.
[24:10] Speaker 2: I mean, she is quite prolific and like, I love
[24:13] Speaker 2: the housemaid. But she's more a them in that she
[24:17] Speaker 2: causes so much conversation, broad conversation across networks, across like
[24:23] Speaker 2: information silos than she is a them because of her work.
[24:25] Speaker 2: And that's no disrespect to the work. But it's like,
[24:28] Speaker 2: she does anything, and Fox News is like, we have
[24:31] Speaker 2: to spend an hour talking about this.
[24:32] Speaker 1: Right.
[24:32] Speaker 3: You know? Right. That's our girl.
[24:34] Speaker 1: This is our girl. Whatever she did.
[24:36] Speaker 2: You know, it's ridiculous.
[24:40] Speaker 3: This ad is sponsored by Veve Healthcare.
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[25:18] Speaker 3: Basically, talk to your doctor. Have the conversation. Ask the questions.
[25:23] Speaker 3: Be a little nosy about your own health.
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[25:38] Speaker 1: Do you think that there's an intrinsic controversiality in being
[25:43] Speaker 1: a them? Like, do you think it requires a bit
[25:46] Speaker 1: of polarization?
[25:48] Speaker 4: People have to have a preconceived notion of who you
[25:50] Speaker 4: are and they're going to narrow it down to who
[25:53] Speaker 4: that is to them.
[25:55] Speaker 1: So I think that's, like, the scary part of it
[25:57] Speaker 1: that people don't realize. Like, in reading the book as
[26:01] Speaker 1: a who, I was sort of, like, thinking to myself, like,
[26:05] Speaker 1: all the things that make me uncomfortable about the ways
[26:07] Speaker 1: in which my life has changed all have to do
[26:09] Speaker 1: with unwanted attention and perception. And so as I was reading,
[26:13] Speaker 1: and I know that we've talked about this, too, like, that's, like,
[26:15] Speaker 1: something that's been uncomfortable for me. for you as well,
[26:18] Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It's not fun. And I wonder,
[26:23] Speaker 1: in reading it, it sort of feels like a little
[26:25] Speaker 1: bit of a weird trap, because it's like, you know
[26:27] Speaker 1: you have to participate in order to do the thing
[26:30] Speaker 1: you want to do, which is entertain more people and
[26:34] Speaker 1: do the thing that you love, however, it comes with
[26:38] Speaker 1: these side effects that you know are coming, but don't
[26:41] Speaker 1: understand are coming. You know what I mean? And then it's,
[26:45] Speaker 1: and so it was like a real mind fuck reading it.
[26:48] Speaker 1: As someone who like, you know, has been in a
[26:51] Speaker 1: picture with my Bravo star ex with the cut down
[26:55] Speaker 1: the middle. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's like,
[26:57] Speaker 1: it's like that felt really crazy to me because it's like,
[27:00] Speaker 1: that's something I would make fun of. And yet I
[27:02] Speaker 1: have to go on. Right.
[27:04] Speaker 4: Cause you're culture lovers. So you grew up like seeing
[27:07] Speaker 4: that rip photo with people who were really famous to you.
[27:11] Speaker 1: And then it's And then you've been ripped. And then
[27:13] Speaker 1: it's you and it feels like it cheapens the whole thing.
[27:16] Speaker 3: Of course it does. You know what I mean?
[27:18] Speaker 1: It's like suddenly when it's you, it's kind of like,
[27:20] Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's me. Oh, this isn't real.
[27:25] Speaker 4: Okay, question. Does that make you enjoy culture less? Celebrity culture?
[27:30] Speaker 1: Probably. You know what?
[27:31] Speaker 4: Which sucks. It sucks.
[27:34] Speaker 1: So that's an interesting question. I feel like.
[27:37] Speaker 4: Are you gossiping about celebrities?
[27:39] Speaker 3: That part of it, it makes me enjoy less. So yeah,
[27:42] Speaker 3: I think we just do it less because... And I
[27:46] Speaker 3: think our listenership kind of might take issue with this.
[27:48] Speaker 3: Like we sometimes will... You have to meet them. Humanize
[27:52] Speaker 3: them in a way that is God forbid. No, that's good.
[27:56] Speaker 1: No, that's good.
[27:57] Speaker 4: I mean, I think how we.
[27:59] Speaker 3: And meet them, of course. Yeah, whatever.
[28:01] Speaker 4: How we deal with this... we're not famous, but like you,
[28:04] Speaker 4: but whatever. What I'm saying, how we deal with this
[28:08] Speaker 4: is that to us, a lot of the who mechanisms
[28:12] Speaker 4: are people who want press. They want attention. They seek
[28:14] Speaker 4: it out for their work. And when they get it,
[28:17] Speaker 4: it actually helps them make more money, do more projects, whatever, whatever.
[28:21] Speaker 4: So in our mind, that's why we cover who's and
[28:25] Speaker 4: not them's. And that, I think, is something that we also,
[28:28] Speaker 4: I can't speak for you, but I feel like because
[28:30] Speaker 4: we're obsessed with the media of it all, a lot
[28:32] Speaker 4: of the times we're trying to figure out what's being reported,
[28:35] Speaker 4: why it's being reported, why it's being reported that way.
[28:37] Speaker 4: Is the person being taken out of context? Is the
[28:40] Speaker 4: person on a podcast and they're just blabbing because they're
[28:44] Speaker 4: just too comfortable?
[28:45] Speaker 3: Right.
[28:46] Speaker 4: You know? We call that podcast mouth. Like that's like
[28:49] Speaker 4: these symptoms of like new media.
[28:51] Speaker 2: But from early on, like I think it was by
[28:53] Speaker 2: no means the goal initially, but then we realized it
[28:56] Speaker 2: was sort of our way out because we are not
[28:57] Speaker 2: in the business of breaking gossip. People sometimes send us stuff,
[29:01] Speaker 2: but we're not going to talk about it. Like we
[29:03] Speaker 2: just want to talk about stuff that is being talked about,
[29:05] Speaker 2: why it's being talked about, and also about people who
[29:07] Speaker 2: want the attention. It really is not, it's kind of
[29:10] Speaker 2: to your point. It's like, it's less fun to talk
[29:12] Speaker 2: about people who are shutting down and don't want the attention.
[29:15] Speaker 3: Exactly.
[29:15] Speaker 2: You want to talk about the person that's like, Jesse
[29:17] Speaker 2: James Ecker yesterday was like, I'm partnering with Fresh Express
[29:20] Speaker 2: and I have to talk to you about bagged salads.
[29:22] Speaker 2: I'm like, I have to listen and I have to
[29:24] Speaker 2: regurgitate it. That's so funny. It's like, it is so
[29:27] Speaker 2: much more joyful to talk about people who are taking
[29:29] Speaker 2: joy in the stupidest stuff imaginable, right? Like, it's not
[29:34] Speaker 2: fun to air kind of dirty laundry.
[29:36] Speaker 1: Yeah. It is interesting because I find I do like
[29:41] Speaker 1: the press part of it. I like the performance element
[29:49] Speaker 1: of all of it. It's like the unwanted, ugly social
[29:52] Speaker 1: media stuff, which is a symptom of recent stuff. And
[29:56] Speaker 1: also when people are just wrong and they get to
[29:59] Speaker 1: say whatever they want.
[30:00] Speaker 3: You like the agreed upon terms.
[30:01] Speaker 1: Exactly, and I think that that's, it's off the table.
[30:06] Speaker 3: It's out the window.
[30:07] Speaker 4: It's out the window.
[30:08] Speaker 2: Are you still in a place, both of you actually,
[30:11] Speaker 2: are you still in a place where you like a
[30:13] Speaker 2: sidewalk hello? Yeah. Like that hasn't started to bother you yet, right?
[30:18] Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
[30:18] Speaker 2: I think that's like such a good.
[30:20] Speaker 1: Also like a.
[30:21] Speaker 4: Free drink at a bar. I'm just like, these are
[30:23] Speaker 4: the cool perks. It's like someone comes up to you
[30:26] Speaker 4: and says, love what you do.
[30:27] Speaker 3: Yes.
[30:28] Speaker 1: Awesome.
[30:29] Speaker 4: That's so nice.
[30:30] Speaker 1: I love feeling like nice interactions from people because here's
[30:35] Speaker 1: another aspect of it, which is I think you talk
[30:38] Speaker 1: about it, but also it's really felt when it's you.
[30:43] Speaker 1: The vitriol from online that doesn't match the energy in
[30:48] Speaker 1: real life.
[30:48] Speaker 3: Oh, sure.
[30:49] Speaker 1: And that's very story of your life. You know what
[30:51] Speaker 1: I mean? It's like when you are– when what they
[30:55] Speaker 1: have to say about you is like, I don't know
[30:57] Speaker 1: what the fuck he thinks he's doing. He's not even like,
[31:01] Speaker 1: we don't care. And then you're like, ah, maybe people
[31:03] Speaker 1: don't care. And then you go out to the streets
[31:05] Speaker 1: and people care. It's like, that's the part that's like
[31:08] Speaker 1: a little mind fucky. So it's almost like, as a who,
[31:13] Speaker 1: I would imagine there's a lot of like, not death
[31:16] Speaker 1: march towards themdom, but it's like, what's this all for
[31:18] Speaker 1: if I don't become a them? You know what I mean? Like,
[31:21] Speaker 1: if I'm existing in this middle place of wholeness, where
[31:24] Speaker 1: people aren't really sure what to think of me, and
[31:27] Speaker 1: so I'm not, shouldn't I just march forward into themdom
[31:31] Speaker 1: or just go fully back to nah?
[31:33] Speaker 2: No, and I think that joy- Not anymore. This goes
[31:37] Speaker 2: back to them at the heart of who? I think
[31:39] Speaker 2: the moment you are a them, Lindsay, correct me if
[31:44] Speaker 2: I'm wrong.
[31:44] Speaker 1: Never.
[31:45] Speaker 2: The moment you are a them, it's sort of like
[31:47] Speaker 2: this weird paradox because then you are reduced to... to
[31:51] Speaker 2: like one thing. You are firmly in a lane. Everyone
[31:54] Speaker 2: recognizes you in the specific lane. When you're a who,
[31:57] Speaker 2: you can do whatever the hell you want. You can
[31:59] Speaker 2: be all sorts of things and you can make decisions
[32:01] Speaker 2: on the fly.
[32:01] Speaker 4: I think also more celebrities are doing more things.
[32:04] Speaker 3: They do whatever. Rita Ora.
[32:06] Speaker 4: She does everything.
[32:07] Speaker 1: Who is your patron saint of the podcast and the
[32:09] Speaker 1: subject of the final chapter of this book and I
[32:12] Speaker 1: have always been obsessed with her.
[32:14] Speaker 4: That was our favorite chapter. That's my favorite chapter.
[32:16] Speaker 2: It was definitely my favorite chapter.
[32:17] Speaker 4: Because it was something we were always going to write
[32:19] Speaker 4: and we weren't sure how we were going to write
[32:21] Speaker 4: it but ultimately like we've been covering her for 10
[32:24] Speaker 4: years so we are the ultimate Rita Ora fans you.
[32:27] Speaker 3: Are like it's crazy has she reached out ever?
[32:30] Speaker 4: No, and that's kind of our beautiful relationship. We're like, no,
[32:34] Speaker 4: I'm serious.
[32:35] Speaker 1: No, I agree. I think she probably gets it.
[32:38] Speaker 4: I think that means she gets it because I think
[32:40] Speaker 4: she knows, because she's a genius about this stuff, and
[32:43] Speaker 4: her PR people are too, that it ruins the ecosystem.
[32:50] Speaker 4: To let us do our thing is the best gift
[32:52] Speaker 4: that she could give us.
[32:53] Speaker 2: If I ever found out that she was upset about it,
[32:55] Speaker 2: first of all, we would know by now. But if
[32:57] Speaker 2: I ever did find out that she found it very hurtful...
[33:00] Speaker 2: I would dig a hole and crawl in it. You know,
[33:02] Speaker 2: like I would feel terrible.
[33:04] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[33:05] Speaker 2: But I do think that she either knows it exists
[33:08] Speaker 2: and just ignores it and says whatever.
[33:09] Speaker 1: But you know what?
[33:10] Speaker 2: Or she knows it exists and thinks, that's kind of charming.
[33:12] Speaker 4: That's what makes her the perfect who because she is
[33:14] Speaker 4: able to ignore stuff like us. I think that's why
[33:17] Speaker 4: she lives in this perfect place of doing whatever the
[33:19] Speaker 4: hell she wants because she knows that she can always
[33:22] Speaker 4: get a job. She's supremely talented.
[33:25] Speaker 1: On multiple levels. The industry likes her.
[33:27] Speaker 4: Children are obsessed with her.
[33:29] Speaker 3: Yes. Oh, Descendants. Because of Descendants. And Detective Pikachu.
[33:33] Speaker 4: Literally, where she played a scientist, incredible role.
[33:36] Speaker 1: She passed.
[33:36] Speaker 3: She dies.
[33:37] Speaker 2: She blows up or something?
[33:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, she blows up. You haven't seen Detective Pikachu?
[33:40] Speaker 4: She blows up.
[33:41] Speaker 3: I'm a Pokemon mega fan. It's good. I have these
[33:44] Speaker 3: cultural blind spots within the Pokemon ecosphere.
[33:47] Speaker 4: We saw it because of Rita and I was really pleased.
[33:49] Speaker 2: I was like, damn, it's really nice.
[33:50] Speaker 1: She's not in it for a long time, but she
[33:52] Speaker 1: is in it for a good time.
[33:53] Speaker 3: Which is kind of how she lives her life.
[33:55] Speaker 1: 100%. I mean, her function in the movie is crucial. Yeah.
[33:59] Speaker 4: Wait, you gotta have her on the pod.
[34:00] Speaker 1: I feel as though she is a perfect person I
[34:04] Speaker 1: would love to have on the pod.
[34:05] Speaker 4: She would be so fun.
[34:06] Speaker 3: Just the way you guys write that final chapter is triumphant. No,
[34:10] Speaker 3: I mean it.
[34:11] Speaker 4: I know, that's really nice.
[34:13] Speaker 3: Because you know what I was thinking? I think you
[34:15] Speaker 3: guys do call her like a bon vivant. Bon vivant.
[34:17] Speaker 1: She is.
[34:19] Speaker 3: Literally was out on the town with our friend Dave
[34:21] Speaker 3: a couple weeks ago.
[34:22] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I saw that. So friends of ours went
[34:25] Speaker 1: out to dinner with her because, and literally it was
[34:27] Speaker 1: so funny, they said they met up through a friend
[34:29] Speaker 1: and they were all supposed to have dinner together with
[34:31] Speaker 1: a friend and the friend had to bail. And they
[34:34] Speaker 1: texted Rita and were like, hey, friend had to bail,
[34:37] Speaker 1: if you want to do it another night. No, no, no,
[34:38] Speaker 1: I'm coming for sure. Hung out with her for hours,
[34:40] Speaker 1: she was a jam. And they had the best time
[34:43] Speaker 1: with her. They texted us after like, Rita Ora should
[34:45] Speaker 1: become a part of our permanent friend group.
[34:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[34:47] Speaker 4: And you know what? She would love that.
[34:50] Speaker 1: Apparently.
[34:51] Speaker 3: And then Jared was with her at the Emmys last year.
[34:54] Speaker 3: And then Jared FaceTimed me from the Chateau. This is
[34:58] Speaker 3: the most L.A. sentence.
[34:59] Speaker 4: If anyone had a negative thing to say about Rita Ora.
[35:01] Speaker 1: It would have been.
[35:03] Speaker 3: Guess who they'd call.
[35:05] Speaker 2: Me.
[35:06] Speaker 3: And I would have to grapple.
[35:07] Speaker 4: Not once. Not once have we ever heard a. negative
[35:13] Speaker 4: thing about that woman.
[35:14] Speaker 2: And do you know, like, you think about celebrities and
[35:16] Speaker 2: it's mostly, I think, aligned with Taylor Swift, but you
[35:18] Speaker 2: think about celebrities like Big Them's where they have their
[35:20] Speaker 2: famous friends.
[35:21] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[35:21] Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, they're a famous friend with this
[35:23] Speaker 2: person for a year and then they kind of go
[35:26] Speaker 2: away and then they have a new famous friend. I
[35:28] Speaker 2: can't think of someone who's like, I love Rita, who
[35:31] Speaker 2: is then sort of MIA in her life.
[35:33] Speaker 3: Right.
[35:33] Speaker 4: She keeps her friends sticky.
[35:35] Speaker 2: And I think that that says a lot.
[35:36] Speaker 3: You know?
[35:37] Speaker 4: We cite an article where CharlieXCX says, Rita is a
[35:41] Speaker 4: great time.
[35:42] Speaker 2: Yep.
[35:42] Speaker 4: And I believe it. And I'm like, she would know.
[35:45] Speaker 3: She's been in a loving marriage for four years now.
[35:48] Speaker 1: I have to say, also, thank you for really... Incredible.
[35:51] Speaker 1: Thank you for shouting out the catalog of songs because
[35:56] Speaker 1: I really feel like it has to move beyond gay
[35:59] Speaker 1: guys and women who get it, who love Rita. I'm
[36:03] Speaker 1: telling you, I'm waiting for.
[36:05] Speaker 3: The last time for you. Hey!
[36:08] Speaker 1: No, literally.
[36:09] Speaker 2: May he rest.
[36:10] Speaker 3: May he, I am.
[36:11] Speaker 1: Oh my God, it's so devastating. But what's not devastating
[36:14] Speaker 1: is the music. No, seriously.
[36:17] Speaker 3: Stream Phoenix.
[36:18] Speaker 1: Stream Phoenix. Also, I Will Never Let You Down is
[36:20] Speaker 1: truly a Bob. It's incredible. How we do Parentheses Party,
[36:23] Speaker 1: that was where it all started.
[36:25] Speaker 4: She has songs. And also, she still will put out
[36:28] Speaker 4: good songs kind of randomly.
[36:30] Speaker 3: Yeah. Just to give you a gorgeous song.
[36:32] Speaker 1: Well, she's an amazing singer.
[36:34] Speaker 2: Yes.
[36:34] Speaker 1: Like, and that's, I think sometimes, well, and we were saying,
[36:38] Speaker 1: what did you say?
[36:39] Speaker 3: I was just saying quickly, and we all know this,
[36:40] Speaker 3: but the reason why Rita Ora is so, why we're
[36:43] Speaker 3: all talking about her in such an enthusiastic way is
[36:45] Speaker 3: because she is not beholden to any of the bullshit.
[36:48] Speaker 3: of modern fame, go. She can release a song for
[36:50] Speaker 3: the Descendants, she can release a pop, it doesn't matter.
[36:52] Speaker 3: It will work no matter what.
[36:53] Speaker 4: I agree.
[36:54] Speaker 1: And the other thing is, I actually think that she's
[36:58] Speaker 1: reaching a point where culture is gonna meet her, because
[37:03] Speaker 1: I believe this whole narrative about the Kia Asylum.
[37:06] Speaker 3: Kia, which you guys pronounce correctly on the audio.
[37:09] Speaker 1: The Kia Asylum, of course. But what I think happened is,
[37:13] Speaker 1: in 2024, that was Charlie. In 2025, it was Zara.
[37:20] Speaker 1: In 2026, it was Tinashe. I think that it all
[37:26] Speaker 1: shuts down for good. In 2027, when Rita Ora breaks
[37:30] Speaker 1: out of the asylum and is an A-lister them.
[37:33] Speaker 4: But the asylum is like this irrelevant thing to us
[37:37] Speaker 4: because it's like, it's about siloed, like Tinashe, Zara, who'd
[37:42] Speaker 4: you say before?
[37:42] Speaker 3: Charlie.
[37:43] Speaker 4: Charlie all had incredible.
[37:45] Speaker 1: Incredible careers. Yes, Sabrina was fully in there.
[37:47] Speaker 4: A slew of fans putting out albums, whatever, going on tour,
[37:52] Speaker 4: no problem. Like before we, when we were saying they're
[37:55] Speaker 4: in the asylum. So the idea that like, and honestly,
[37:58] Speaker 4: maybe their lives and their well-being was better before. when
[38:02] Speaker 4: they were in the asylum. Now, it's like, they get
[38:05] Speaker 4: to receive all this them attention. We're like, yeah, you
[38:08] Speaker 4: made it out of the asylum, whatever, we're so proud
[38:10] Speaker 4: of you. And I'm like, do they really want to
[38:11] Speaker 4: make it out of the asylum?
[38:12] Speaker 1: That's what music, fashion, film is like about.
[38:14] Speaker 3: Totally.
[38:14] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
[38:15] Speaker 1: It's about how the end of that album, with it
[38:18] Speaker 1: just kind of devolving into nothing lasts forever, nothing lasts forever.
[38:21] Speaker 1: Like that's, it's scary. It's haunting. And you can tell
[38:25] Speaker 1: it's like.
[38:26] Speaker 4: Charlie is one of the great scholars of the who
[38:29] Speaker 4: to them.
[38:29] Speaker 2: She's so self-aware.
[38:30] Speaker 1: She projected so much onto them.
[38:32] Speaker 4: Very interesting.
[38:33] Speaker 1: The them of it all. And then she very much
[38:37] Speaker 1: became a them. And now it's like you get a
[38:40] Speaker 1: sense that there's like a little bit of paralysis in there,
[38:43] Speaker 1: which she is like really sort of like, you know,
[38:45] Speaker 1: in a very Charlie way trying to dive into. But
[38:48] Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's like when you've done the thing where
[38:50] Speaker 1: you fought through the wholeness because you were positive that
[38:53] Speaker 1: the answer was to become them. it creates this other dimension.
[38:57] Speaker 4: Also, she's so thoughtful. She's so thoughtful, she's so smart,
[39:00] Speaker 4: and she's thinking about all these things that we're talking
[39:03] Speaker 4: about and having to process that within her own life,
[39:06] Speaker 4: which I'm like, I can't imagine that's fun or easy.
[39:09] Speaker 1: No.
[39:10] Speaker 3: I mean, it's wanting them while not understanding the emotional
[39:16] Speaker 3: reality of it. I mean, yeah, this is all quite obvious.
[39:21] Speaker 3: I was going to say, the book is, I mean,
[39:23] Speaker 3: it just came out a few weeks ago. um i
[39:26] Speaker 3: was kind of just like i was amazed at how
[39:29] Speaker 3: like modern it was i just i just felt like
[39:31] Speaker 3: the references were so up to date and i like
[39:34] Speaker 3: like when did you what was like the deadline for
[39:36] Speaker 3: edits for you guys.
[39:37] Speaker 2: The last thing we added oh that was major Was
[39:41] Speaker 2: post-Oscars earlier this year. Yes. Because we had to say
[39:44] Speaker 2: Timmy lost and Michael won.
[39:45] Speaker 1: Right.
[39:45] Speaker 2: Because that was kind of important as a button.
[39:47] Speaker 3: That's right.
[39:48] Speaker 2: But, like, that was, like, where the timeline ends.
[39:51] Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
[39:52] Speaker 2: And that's something that we kind of would go a
[39:53] Speaker 2: little nuts over. Because it's sort of like you're writing
[39:55] Speaker 2: this thing, but it's not a living document. It's like
[39:57] Speaker 2: it has to end somewhere. And is that going to
[39:59] Speaker 2: frustrate people? So it's as current as it can be.
[40:02] Speaker 2: But it's like this is about a 10-year span in time,
[40:05] Speaker 2: more or less. Yeah. period that's the end and if
[40:07] Speaker 2: more happens then like another book will happen.
[40:10] Speaker 3: This was a dense 10 years you know what I
[40:12] Speaker 3: mean everything.
[40:13] Speaker 4: Changed everything changed well it's like okay so do you
[40:16] Speaker 4: guys know that we started our podcast at the same
[40:17] Speaker 4: time yes yeah like basically like a month apart 2016
[40:20] Speaker 4: which is crazy because if you think about it like
[40:23] Speaker 4: when we started we were like oh podcasts too many
[40:25] Speaker 4: of them same same who wants this literally who wants
[40:28] Speaker 4: this shit it's literally why we almost didn't do it
[40:30] Speaker 4: literally who wants this shit it's too much whatever we
[40:33] Speaker 4: don't know what microphones are we sound like shit whatever
[40:35] Speaker 4: this was a whole thing it's crazy that we had
[40:37] Speaker 4: this confluence of like, you guys and us, we were like,
[40:40] Speaker 4: culture needs talking about by us, and you've experienced the
[40:44] Speaker 4: same 10 year swath of culture, which is why I
[40:47] Speaker 4: think this hits for you, because this is the 10
[40:48] Speaker 4: years that you've been talking about culture.
[40:51] Speaker 3: Sure.
[40:52] Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's crazy when you watch an entire media
[40:56] Speaker 1: landscape change. And it's like when you plant a seed
[40:59] Speaker 1: and then stare at the same thing and no fuck,
[41:01] Speaker 1: it's a huge tree.
[41:02] Speaker 3: It's like, Oh my God.
[41:03] Speaker 4: While working in it, which we're not. So that's totally
[41:06] Speaker 4: mindfuck for you.
[41:07] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think that's what keeps us like, I
[41:11] Speaker 3: don't know that that's why we like, we've had to
[41:13] Speaker 3: like go to video and you guys get to do it. Like,
[41:16] Speaker 3: I'm saying like, I, I, I, this sounds awful, but
[41:20] Speaker 3: I'm just like, I, I, I yearn for that. You
[41:22] Speaker 3: know what I mean? It's great.
[41:23] Speaker 4: Come on back.
[41:24] Speaker 3: It's great.
[41:24] Speaker 1: Oh my God.
[41:26] Speaker 2: You lose the, you lose the like wheels virality, but like,
[41:30] Speaker 2: who cares? So much like, piece like being in a cardigan.
[41:35] Speaker 1: The read does it too the read refuses to go
[41:38] Speaker 1: video good for them I know because you know what
[41:41] Speaker 1: I will say like in you speak all about you
[41:45] Speaker 1: know podcasting and it was really kind of when you
[41:50] Speaker 1: are on camera you're just different you're just different and
[41:55] Speaker 1: I used to be really sensitive like about three four
[41:59] Speaker 1: years ago when it felt like there was a bit
[42:01] Speaker 1: of a turn where this podcast went from being like
[42:04] Speaker 1: niche favorite to, I think it became like an actual
[42:07] Speaker 1: thing and people were like, they changed. And there was
[42:11] Speaker 1: like a whole, like, I think it was a vulture article.
[42:13] Speaker 1: We participated in like an interview with, and it was
[42:16] Speaker 1: the bent of it, and it's Jason Frank, who's very
[42:18] Speaker 1: good at what he does, but you know, he's messy,
[42:21] Speaker 1: and he is, and we love him, but he wants
[42:26] Speaker 1: the story, and he gets the story, and I was frustrated,
[42:29] Speaker 1: because I was like, I feel like people think we changed,
[42:32] Speaker 1: but it all changed. It all changed. And I think
[42:38] Speaker 1: in relation to the way it all changed, we didn't
[42:41] Speaker 1: change that much.
[42:42] Speaker 4: Well, the fact that Mariah Carey wants to come on
[42:44] Speaker 4: your podcast is the change. You didn't change. The culture changed,
[42:52] Speaker 4: and therefore you were there to catch the culture because
[42:54] Speaker 4: you're the thing that people want to watch.
[42:57] Speaker 3: And we're attention seekers in our own way.
[42:59] Speaker 4: And celebs want to talk to you.
[43:01] Speaker 3: And we go, oh, sure. Of course. Yeah, I mean,
[43:04] Speaker 3: it all sort of budgets each other. It goes hand
[43:07] Speaker 3: in hand. Were you going to say something, Bobby?
[43:08] Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that, like, when we first didn't pivot
[43:11] Speaker 2: to video, when everyone was pivoting to video, the question was,
[43:17] Speaker 2: you know, when are you going to do it?
[43:18] Speaker 3: Uh-huh. Like, is it happening?
[43:19] Speaker 2: When are you going to do it? And now, it's
[43:22] Speaker 2: what you said. It's like, you're so lucky.
[43:24] Speaker 1: I know. I'm so jealous.
[43:25] Speaker 3: I'm sorry for my tone, but I genuinely mean that.
[43:28] Speaker 4: No, and I believe you and receive it.
[43:31] Speaker 1: I hate that thing.
[43:33] Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
[43:33] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The fact is, we have a TV show now.
[43:37] Speaker 1: That's what it is. You are Disney +. This is.
[43:42] Speaker 2: TV.
[43:42] Speaker 1: And isn't it funny because it was, and now it's interesting,
[43:47] Speaker 1: I think, because of course then, Like when you get
[43:49] Speaker 1: to a certain place in your career and like especially like,
[43:52] Speaker 1: you know, you leaving SNL, like me having like the
[43:55] Speaker 1: TV credits that I have, like we're a recognizable brand.
[43:58] Speaker 1: And so they say, well, why don't we now pitch
[44:01] Speaker 1: a TV series? And then you do that and you
[44:04] Speaker 1: realize what a nightmare that is and how.
[44:08] Speaker 4: Annoying it is and how great this is just film
[44:12] Speaker 4: it why would I sit down and I said that's
[44:14] Speaker 4: also why your award show is perfect right because it
[44:17] Speaker 4: responds to your show it's a natural extension you can
[44:20] Speaker 4: use all your new best friends the celebrities and they
[44:23] Speaker 4: will be so happy and they want to be there
[44:25] Speaker 4: because they love.
[44:26] Speaker 1: Award shows but I guess what I mean is like
[44:28] Speaker 1: that's one thing and because it feels like an extension
[44:31] Speaker 1: of the podcast we can do that but I guess
[44:33] Speaker 1: what I'm talking about is like I'll just say we
[44:34] Speaker 1: had we were developing a show at One of the
[44:39] Speaker 1: big ones. One of the big guys. And it became
[44:42] Speaker 1: very clear that it was going to be really needlessly
[44:47] Speaker 1: difficult and not necessarily going to pay off. And you
[44:53] Speaker 1: talk to people.
[44:54] Speaker 3: And it ended up being an enormous waste of time.
[44:56] Speaker 1: A big, enormous waste of time and I think made
[44:59] Speaker 1: a good idea worse. And at the end of it,
[45:02] Speaker 1: when it came time to think, should we pick up
[45:05] Speaker 1: and do it somewhere else, my instinct was, No.
[45:09] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[45:10] Speaker 2: This is why you don't work with BritBox.
[45:11] Speaker 1: You shouldn't have worked with BritBox. No, they have Angela.
[45:15] Speaker 4: The finger point genre was going to be you. You're
[45:17] Speaker 4: just going to have Judi Dench here.
[45:19] Speaker 1: Finger drama.
[45:20] Speaker 3: Finger drama.
[45:20] Speaker 4: Finger drama.
[45:21] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[45:21] Speaker 3: Do you guys like finger drama? What do you guys say? Love.
[45:24] Speaker 4: I love a period.
[45:25] Speaker 3: Peace.
[45:25] Speaker 4: I love Sense and Sensibility.
[45:26] Speaker 1: I just saw it.
[45:27] Speaker 4: It's fab. And someone did have to call our pod
[45:30] Speaker 4: and be like, yes, it's in the title. One has
[45:31] Speaker 4: sense and one has sensibility. One's feeling and one is sensible.
[45:35] Speaker 1: And I said, oh yeah, that's right.
[45:38] Speaker 4: I read it too.
[45:39] Speaker 1: It's actually even clearer in sense and sensibility than it
[45:42] Speaker 1: is in Pride and Prejudice. Because Pride and Prejudice is
[45:44] Speaker 1: more of like a Sort of like idea, whereas Sense
[45:47] Speaker 1: and Sensibility is literally the characters.
[45:50] Speaker 4: One girl, another girl.
[45:51] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[45:53] Speaker 4: No, I loved it. Fabulous.
[45:54] Speaker 1: It really was good. And I think Daisy Edgar Jones
[45:57] Speaker 1: should be a them.
[45:58] Speaker 4: I think she has a lot of names.
[46:00] Speaker 1: So many names.
[46:01] Speaker 4: I gotta remember them.
[46:02] Speaker 3: Does that gum up the works to them, though?
[46:03] Speaker 4: Sometimes it is a lot of names.
[46:05] Speaker 2: It's hard to remember the name.
[46:06] Speaker 1: I mean, Scherzinger.
[46:07] Speaker 2: Scherzinger stands out, you know?
[46:09] Speaker 1: Scherzinger stands out, but wouldn't you say that she's sort
[46:13] Speaker 1: of like an alternate universe Rita Ora? She felt like
[46:16] Speaker 1: a Rita Ora to me.
[46:17] Speaker 4: For a long time, and then when Sunset.
[46:19] Speaker 1: Boulevard made her a them on Broadway.
[46:22] Speaker 2: It made her a them on Broadway, yeah.
[46:23] Speaker 4: But now where are we?
[46:25] Speaker 2: She won the top thing you could get in that field.
[46:29] Speaker 2: Everyone was celebrating her left and right for basically a
[46:32] Speaker 2: year because she did something astonishing, and everyone was like,
[46:35] Speaker 2: You were getting this award. There's no question. And then
[46:39] Speaker 2: she's burning herself backstage at a Pussycat Dolls concert.
[46:41] Speaker 1: In like Poland. It's like, this is so strange.
[46:44] Speaker 3: It's weird.
[46:45] Speaker 4: She spilled like hot water on herself.
[46:46] Speaker 1: She made tea.
[46:47] Speaker 2: She spilled hot water on herself. And it's like, you
[46:49] Speaker 2: were touring.
[46:49] Speaker 3: With the Pussycat Dolls. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[46:52] Speaker 2: Totally accidental. This is a, this is from a place
[46:54] Speaker 2: of deep, deep concern. But it's like the next big
[46:59] Speaker 2: thing she did after that was do a reuniting tour
[47:02] Speaker 2: with the Pussycat Dolls. It doesn't sell well enough in
[47:05] Speaker 2: the United States, so it's European only. I'm sure she
[47:07] Speaker 2: has wonderful fans in Europe, but it was like, that
[47:09] Speaker 2: was bad press. And that must be really difficult because
[47:12] Speaker 2: she left that silo where she was like number one
[47:14] Speaker 2: then into the broader space.
[47:17] Speaker 3: You think it's one vector that just goes outward and up.
[47:20] Speaker 2: I think theater's tough. Theater's like hard.
[47:25] Speaker 3: On the sort of up-to-datedness of the book, which I
[47:27] Speaker 3: don't think you should ever worry about because like you're saying,
[47:29] Speaker 3: it is like the past 10 years and... I don't know,
[47:32] Speaker 3: even like as we're talking, like Matt and I were
[47:33] Speaker 3: talking today on the way in about like, oh my God,
[47:35] Speaker 3: like the Elizabeth Hasselbeck stuff is like perfect.
[47:37] Speaker 1: I loved that you guys covered her.
[47:39] Speaker 3: Um, And I'm sure you have a lot to say
[47:41] Speaker 3: about that. But I'm curious to know, have you guys
[47:44] Speaker 3: talked about the Connor story, Hudson Williams of it all? Yeah.
[47:48] Speaker 3: That's the most recent example of stratospheric who to them.
[47:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, I love watching them in spaces and see what
[47:55] Speaker 4: their deal is. I think they both are so eager
[47:57] Speaker 4: to be part of it. And it shines through in
[47:59] Speaker 4: a way that is actually really nice. I'm sure they're
[48:02] Speaker 4: both having a hard time with the rest. But I
[48:05] Speaker 4: think they're both enjoying their time together. in this space now.
[48:09] Speaker 4: It seems like.
[48:10] Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like to you?
[48:11] Speaker 3: In fleeting interactions with them, it just seems like they
[48:16] Speaker 3: are meant for this. They are so good at being
[48:19] Speaker 3: these stars. And yet I can tell this is complete.
[48:23] Speaker 3: As it cannot be anything else, it is so overwhelming
[48:27] Speaker 3: and so destabilizing.
[48:28] Speaker 4: And obviously, that's something that gets us really excited is
[48:31] Speaker 4: when a new person shows up. We're all about new people.
[48:35] Speaker 4: We're trying to we actually want people to come in
[48:38] Speaker 4: and stay. The problem is when we talk about someone,
[48:39] Speaker 4: we never hear from them again. That's so bleak for us.
[48:41] Speaker 4: It's like we want, when somebody new comes along, we
[48:44] Speaker 4: want them to be part of culture for longer.
[48:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[48:48] Speaker 2: And usually when you get the new under 30, youngish star,
[48:53] Speaker 2: like actor specifically, they don't typically come out of nowhere.
[48:58] Speaker 2: Like you've got your Indy Navaretti and your Connor story
[49:00] Speaker 2: and your Hudson Williams, but usually it's more of a
[49:02] Speaker 2: Zendaya and a Timmy Chalamet where it's like kind of
[49:04] Speaker 2: a slow and steady transition upward trajectory.
[49:07] Speaker 1: Either a contestant on Dancing with the Stars. You come
[49:09] Speaker 1: in second to Kelly Pickler.
[49:11] Speaker 4: Daisy Edgar Jones.
[49:12] Speaker 3: If there was an actor Kaya Asylum, that would be,
[49:14] Speaker 3: you would say it.
[49:15] Speaker 4: There's a lot of girls in that.
[49:16] Speaker 2: There's a lot of them. There's always press where it's like,
[49:19] Speaker 2: meet the next big star. thing GQ's like you'll never
[49:21] Speaker 2: believe the next big thing and then you never hear
[49:23] Speaker 2: from them again right and so Connor and Hudson were
[49:25] Speaker 2: exciting because it was like meet the next big thing
[49:27] Speaker 2: and they were right.
[49:28] Speaker 3: Undeniable you know it was it was really.
[49:29] Speaker 1: Surprising yeah is there a who that got away.
[49:33] Speaker 4: Say more.
[49:34] Speaker 1: Like that was looking like they were going to become
[49:35] Speaker 1: a them, like a who that you were excited about.
[49:37] Speaker 1: There's so many I can't even think about it. There's countless.
[49:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[49:39] Speaker 4: I mean, we're still like.
[49:41] Speaker 2: Alden Ehrenreich.
[49:42] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
[49:43] Speaker 1: Oh, but he's a winner.
[49:44] Speaker 2: He's coming back, but like he was a who that
[49:47] Speaker 2: got away.
[49:47] Speaker 4: Right.
[49:48] Speaker 3: It was like, oh God.
[49:49] Speaker 4: And then it's like he went away to do something interesting.
[49:52] Speaker 4: And now he's back because he did something interesting.
[49:54] Speaker 1: Right.
[49:55] Speaker 3: That's fabulous.
[49:56] Speaker 4: He runs a theater in L.A. It's like the coolest
[49:58] Speaker 4: thing you could do. He's in a Carly Rae Jepsen
[50:00] Speaker 4: music video.
[50:00] Speaker 3: What else is there?
[50:01] Speaker 2: I'm thinking Tinashe again. I'm thinking Kaya Asai, but like Tinashe.
[50:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
[50:06] Speaker 2: Just the amount of press that she got for so
[50:07] Speaker 2: long that was like, here it comes, here it comes.
[50:08] Speaker 4: Totally, because we were big fans of the song Flame,
[50:10] Speaker 4: which I know she does not like.
[50:12] Speaker 3: Oh, right. We were obsessed with it.
[50:13] Speaker 4: So we were like, Flame, here we go. Major label release.
[50:19] Speaker 4: Awesome song. We love it. She was like, hate it.
[50:21] Speaker 3: It flopped.
[50:23] Speaker 4: But it's great.
[50:23] Speaker 3: There you go.
[50:24] Speaker 4: We found our place. She found her place back.
[50:26] Speaker 2: Sure.
[50:26] Speaker 1: I think my who that got away, Lacey Chabert. Oh.
[50:31] Speaker 1: Lacey Chabert.
[50:32] Speaker 4: You think she could have made it? You think she
[50:34] Speaker 4: could have been a big star?
[50:34] Speaker 3: You think because of Mean Girls and stuff?
[50:36] Speaker 1: I think when you look back at Mean Girls and
[50:38] Speaker 1: you look at the Mean Girls and you've got your
[50:41] Speaker 1: Lindsay and your Amanda and Rachel McAdams and then you
[50:45] Speaker 1: see Lacey and you watch that movie. Oh, she's amazing.
[50:47] Speaker 1: Lacey's my favorite thing about it.
[50:49] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[50:50] Speaker 1: And I'm like, what happened that.
[50:52] Speaker 4: Why these girls not lacy.
[50:54] Speaker 1: Right.
[50:55] Speaker 2: She fell into the Hallmark lane.
[50:56] Speaker 4: She did.
[50:56] Speaker 1: She definitely did.
[50:57] Speaker 2: She seemed very comfortable in it. I think she's happy.
[51:00] Speaker 4: But it is kind of incredible that most of those girls.
[51:03] Speaker 1: A-list. Yeah. A-plus list.
[51:05] Speaker 3: My conjecture is that, you know, devout Christian is like, oh,
[51:10] Speaker 3: this side.
[51:11] Speaker 1: It's the.
[51:12] Speaker 3: Even-ended thing that you guys write about. She's like, I
[51:14] Speaker 3: don't want to fight for these fucking parts. I'm going
[51:16] Speaker 3: to sell sponges.
[51:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[51:18] Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And I think there's nothing
[51:20] Speaker 3: wrong with that.
[51:21] Speaker 4: No, but I think we'll always want her to do
[51:24] Speaker 4: stuff because we love her and we love culture. And
[51:26] Speaker 4: so we're like, come back and do it. And she's like, no,
[51:29] Speaker 4: not worth it.
[51:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also funny when you see someone return to
[51:34] Speaker 1: themdom and they're surprised by it and you're delighted by it.
[51:38] Speaker 1: And I feel like the best example of that over
[51:40] Speaker 1: the past year is Jennifer Garner. Oh, yeah. Jennifer Garner
[51:43] Speaker 1: being in the Five Star Weekend. How many texts did
[51:46] Speaker 1: we all send to our friends being like, I forgot
[51:48] Speaker 1: she's so good. She's so good. You liked her for
[51:51] Speaker 1: a reason.
[51:52] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[51:53] Speaker 1: And then you start to think about it and you're like,
[51:56] Speaker 1: she was always so good. It's just that she had
[51:59] Speaker 1: different priorities and a crazy situation that I think people,
[52:04] Speaker 1: because she's so likable, people forget that. Or they separate
[52:09] Speaker 1: the idea of her likability. Or they... it's confusing that
[52:13] Speaker 1: she was such a tabloid fixture because, and she's recently
[52:16] Speaker 1: spoken about just how intense and uncomfortable it was to
[52:20] Speaker 1: be there. That almost like, it doesn't matter what y'all want.
[52:24] Speaker 1: Like I'm going to do capital one. Cause I'm going
[52:26] Speaker 1: to provide for my family and be low lift and
[52:28] Speaker 1: charming in this thing later on, maybe. And the second
[52:32] Speaker 1: she decided she wanted it again, top of the charts.
[52:35] Speaker 2: Season two incoming.
[52:36] Speaker 1: Season two.
[52:37] Speaker 3: Yeah. Another weekend.
[52:38] Speaker 1: I think they're like almost done.
[52:39] Speaker 2: Another weekend.
[52:40] Speaker 1: I think they're like almost done writing it.
[52:42] Speaker 3: Another weekend.
[52:42] Speaker 2: Another weekend.
[52:43] Speaker 4: Yeah, just write another weekend.
[52:44] Speaker 3: There's always more weekends.
[52:45] Speaker 1: They're going to pump that out.
[52:47] Speaker 4: Yeah, after how successful it was, for sure.
[52:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[52:50] Speaker 3: I loved it.
[52:53] Speaker 1: You probably think dressing well takes lots of money or
[52:56] Speaker 1: lots of time spent digging through thrift stores.
[52:58] Speaker 3: Well, not to be rude, but you're wrong. So dead wrong.
[53:03] Speaker 3: And honestly, we're happy for you because now we get
[53:06] Speaker 3: to tell you about Depop.
[53:07] Speaker 1: You can find the fashion you love for less on Depop.
[53:10] Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter what you're into. Leopard print? They've
[53:13] Speaker 3: got it. Not into leopard print? First of all, why?
[53:17] Speaker 3: But fine. They've got that too. Not leopard print. Basically,
[53:21] Speaker 3: whatever your particular fashion situation is, Depop has entered the chat.
[53:25] Speaker 1: We're talking over 600,000 daily listings, including celebrity and stylist
[53:30] Speaker 1: shop drops. That's a lot of listings.
[53:32] Speaker 3: And somehow it gets better. You can sell the stuff
[53:35] Speaker 3: you no longer wear and make money. Then use that
[53:38] Speaker 3: money to buy things you do want to wear.
[53:39] Speaker 1: It's a circle, like the circle of life, but for fashion.
[53:43] Speaker 1: And since fashion is life for a lot of.
[53:44] Speaker 2: People, samesies.
[53:46] Speaker 3: Depop fashion. if it made sense.
[53:49] Speaker 1: Make money on Depop with no selling fees and find
[53:52] Speaker 1: what you want for less.
[53:54] Speaker 3: Depop, love you. Okay, I think it's time to ask
[53:58] Speaker 3: Bobby and Lindsay the question. Yes. Which is, and you
[54:01] Speaker 3: guys can answer this however you would like, with as
[54:03] Speaker 3: many answers as you would like. Bobby Finger and Lindsay Weber,
[54:06] Speaker 3: what is the culture that made you say culture is
[54:08] Speaker 3: for me?
[54:10] Speaker 4: Do you want to go?
[54:10] Speaker 1: You want me to go?
[54:11] Speaker 3: You go.
[54:11] Speaker 4: Which one should I do? The last one I told you.
[54:14] Speaker 1: Do them all.
[54:15] Speaker 3: Do them all.
[54:15] Speaker 1: Okay, well.
[54:16] Speaker 2: We were going to do a shared one, but then
[54:18] Speaker 2: we decided to separate them.
[54:18] Speaker 4: A shared cultural moment that we both really overlap with
[54:21] Speaker 4: that I think comes up, and it also plays in
[54:23] Speaker 4: my head. from the VH1 Behind the Music TLC, Lisa
[54:28] Speaker 4: Burn the House Down.
[54:28] Speaker 1: That one. Lisa Burn the House Down.
[54:30] Speaker 4: Lisa Burn the House, that is a big thing for us.
[54:33] Speaker 4: That whole episode is actually.
[54:35] Speaker 1: Like, here is how you go broke after stealing nine
[54:38] Speaker 1: million records.
[54:38] Speaker 3: I know.
[54:39] Speaker 4: Incredible, incredible clip. But for me personally, was definitely when
[54:44] Speaker 4: I knew culture was for me, was I was at
[54:47] Speaker 4: a bar mitzvah and I won a prize. And the
[54:50] Speaker 4: prize was, I know what's coming. The prize was a Kasingle.
[54:55] Speaker 4: Remember Kasingles?
[54:56] Speaker 2: Yes.
[54:57] Speaker 4: And the Kasingle was for Monica. And it was a song,
[55:02] Speaker 4: Don't Take It Personal, One of Them Days.
[55:05] Speaker 3: A Casingle of Don't Take It First.
[55:07] Speaker 4: Which is not even her kind of, not even like
[55:10] Speaker 4: a Monica song.
[55:11] Speaker 3: They made a Casingle out of it though.
[55:11] Speaker 1: I was like, you have to be saying Angel of
[55:13] Speaker 1: Mine and you didn't. Or For You I Will. None
[55:17] Speaker 1: of those.
[55:17] Speaker 3: Great songs.
[55:18] Speaker 4: Great songs. I never heard them at that point because
[55:20] Speaker 4: I just had the Casingle.
[55:21] Speaker 3: And that was your first exposure to Monica. You're like,
[55:23] Speaker 3: who is this person?
[55:23] Speaker 1: Totally.
[55:24] Speaker 4: And also kind of the idea of having a Casingle
[55:26] Speaker 4: and like having an item and having a cultural item.
[55:30] Speaker 4: That was big, because otherwise I wasn't as, yeah, but
[55:33] Speaker 4: also I was kind of like, I rep this song.
[55:35] Speaker 4: This is my song. I am the critic. I'm going
[55:39] Speaker 4: to tell everyone about this song and how great it is.
[55:41] Speaker 3: And it was a prize that you won.
[55:45] Speaker 4: I was chosen to promote that song.
[55:48] Speaker 1: You were given the assignment from culture to be the
[55:51] Speaker 1: disciple for this single.
[55:52] Speaker 4: Great song.
[55:53] Speaker 3: Still.
[55:54] Speaker 4: Those who do it last night, I was like, damn,
[55:56] Speaker 4: it hits. Also, we're obsessed with that MacBook. That MacBook.
[56:00] Speaker 1: Their follow-up.
[56:00] Speaker 4: Their follow-up to The Boy Is Mine.
[56:01] Speaker 3: It all belongs to me.
[56:02] Speaker 4: Do you guys remember that?
[56:03] Speaker 1: It all belongs to me.
[56:05] Speaker 4: You heard this song.
[56:06] Speaker 2: It is the spiritual successor to The Boy Is Mine.
[56:08] Speaker 3: We're obsessed with that.
[56:08] Speaker 2: And it is phenomenal.
[56:10] Speaker 3: I'm not familiar with this. Okay, thank you for schooling.
[56:11] Speaker 3: It's incredible.
[56:12] Speaker 4: There's a part where they say, that MacBook. And it's
[56:14] Speaker 4: like them being like, that MacBook belongs to me.
[56:16] Speaker 2: But they're both like scorned lovers of the same man.
[56:19] Speaker 2: And they're both sort of like complaining about in like
[56:22] Speaker 2: friendship about this awful guy. And they're like empowering each
[56:26] Speaker 2: other in a way that sort of turns the tables
[56:28] Speaker 2: on the original.
[56:28] Speaker 3: It's not as good of a song, but it's good.
[56:29] Speaker 4: And they really thought it was going to be this
[56:31] Speaker 4: huge thing. And it unfortunately wasn't. But those of us
[56:33] Speaker 4: who were there said, this is a great song. If
[56:36] Speaker 4: that says anything.
[56:38] Speaker 3: And we come to you as supplicants to VH1, truly.
[56:41] Speaker 1: That's how we, that's all we know.
[56:43] Speaker 4: We both work there.
[56:44] Speaker 3: You guys worked there at a very interesting time. Yeah,
[56:47] Speaker 3: we sure did.
[56:48] Speaker 2: A very like, kind of.
[56:49] Speaker 4: Like transitional time.
[56:50] Speaker 1: For when it was going from like, because when I
[56:52] Speaker 1: was watching it as a young person. Cool to uncool.
[56:55] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[56:56] Speaker 1: It was sort of like advanced sexuality and sensuality. It
[57:00] Speaker 1: was like when MTV was trash, like you could go
[57:02] Speaker 1: to VH1 and you could see like, they would play
[57:04] Speaker 1: like Natalie Merchant.
[57:05] Speaker 3: Sure.
[57:05] Speaker 4: And like you ought to know artists were like a
[57:07] Speaker 4: big part of our culture. Adele, all these incredible people
[57:10] Speaker 4: they really knew were going to be played in Starbucks
[57:12] Speaker 4: near you. But like- But by the time we worked there, it.
[57:14] Speaker 1: Was kind of like the grass.
[57:15] Speaker 2: It was transitioning to Mob Wives. Mob Wives. It was
[57:17] Speaker 2: Mob Wives, Love & Hip Hop. It was their reality
[57:19] Speaker 2: sort of Bravo chasing.
[57:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[57:21] Speaker 2: And the behind the music was going away. Sad. You
[57:23] Speaker 2: Oughta Know was going away.
[57:25] Speaker 4: Best Week Ever came back and flopped.
[57:26] Speaker 3: And it flopped. Sad. Oh, God. Could have been us.
[57:29] Speaker 3: All of us. Could have been us.
[57:30] Speaker 1: I would have.
[57:31] Speaker 3: I would have killed on that. And then you guys
[57:32] Speaker 3: really give.
[57:33] Speaker 4: It's crazy. You wouldn't have had a podcast. You would
[57:34] Speaker 4: have just gone on.
[57:35] Speaker 1: Exactly. We would have been House Sparks.
[57:37] Speaker 3: You would have.
[57:38] Speaker 1: Been House Sparks. Being a kid and watching House Sparks
[57:41] Speaker 1: on that.
[57:42] Speaker 4: Everything.
[57:43] Speaker 2: Everything to me.
[57:43] Speaker 1: They were so good. And I was like, wow, that
[57:45] Speaker 1: would be amazing. My dream would be to do that.
[57:48] Speaker 4: You know what I mean? And you are doing that.
[57:50] Speaker 1: Sort of, I guess. You are.
[57:51] Speaker 2: You are.
[57:52] Speaker 4: In a way.
[57:53] Speaker 3: In a way. But you guys really pay respects to
[57:56] Speaker 3: I Love the 80s, I Love the 90s. It's everything.
[57:58] Speaker 3: It is really crucial.
[58:01] Speaker 1: You look back on it and they really did do
[58:03] Speaker 1: such an amazing job producing that. Edutainment. Edutainment.
[58:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm dead ass.
[58:08] Speaker 1: Dead ass.
[58:09] Speaker 3: No, totally.
[58:10] Speaker 4: We don't have stuff like that really.
[58:11] Speaker 2: It was cool.
[58:12] Speaker 1: It was the best edutainment of all time. It was school. Actually,
[58:15] Speaker 1: that's rule of culture number 15. I Love the Decades
[58:20] Speaker 1: was the best edutainment of all time. And it was school.
[58:24] Speaker 4: Oh, that's incredible.
[58:25] Speaker 3: Love it.
[58:25] Speaker 2: It's so true.
[58:26] Speaker 4: That's really true. That's so true.
[58:28] Speaker 1: Okay, your culture.
[58:30] Speaker 2: I haven't told you this yet. But when I was
[58:32] Speaker 2: thinking of it, I was like, what's it going to be?
[58:33] Speaker 2: Because it really did go to I Love the 80s first.
[58:36] Speaker 3: Best week ever.
[58:38] Speaker 2: But then, I'm just going to say it. water world
[58:42] Speaker 2: and it's not okay and i'll tell you and it's
[58:45] Speaker 2: not because of the movie which i did not see
[58:46] Speaker 2: until like two years after water world came out keep
[58:49] Speaker 2: talking the show water world is what got me into
[58:51] Speaker 2: entertainment weekly yeah because i was like a little kid
[58:54] Speaker 2: and i was like i cannot believe how much money
[58:56] Speaker 2: they're spending on water world this is gonna flop and
[58:57] Speaker 2: then i was like.
[58:58] Speaker 4: God that's so you know the narrative.
[59:01] Speaker 2: It's like my own the town matt bellany obsessed ass
[59:04] Speaker 2: it's like it was the origin story of that where
[59:06] Speaker 2: i was like how could they give kevin costner this
[59:08] Speaker 2: much money for this movie They're building an entire place
[59:10] Speaker 2: to film the boat. It was like, I was so
[59:13] Speaker 2: invested in this movie that I could not even see
[59:16] Speaker 2: because my parents would not let me see PG-13 movies
[59:18] Speaker 2: until I was 13.
[59:18] Speaker 4: But you were obsessed with the logistics.
[59:19] Speaker 1: And I was obsessed with it.
[59:20] Speaker 2: And it got me to, I got them to let
[59:22] Speaker 2: me subscribe to Entertainment Weekly.
[59:23] Speaker 3: Yes.
[59:24] Speaker 2: Because I was like, I have to follow the Waterworld saga.
[59:26] Speaker 3: Yes.
[59:26] Speaker 2: And it like, it really, when I, I'd never really
[59:29] Speaker 2: thought about it until last night. I was like, wait
[59:31] Speaker 2: a minute.
[59:31] Speaker 1: This like, this really.
[59:33] Speaker 4: Didn't form so much.
[59:33] Speaker 1: Because all of a sudden you were like.
[59:34] Speaker 4: Box office minded.
[59:35] Speaker 2: I was like, I care about this thing.
[59:36] Speaker 4: You became a box office guy.
[59:37] Speaker 3: Literally. The economics of it.
[59:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[59:39] Speaker 2: And it's like, I can't really, I can't engage people.
[59:41] Speaker 2: And it sort of came as a concession prize, because
[59:43] Speaker 2: I was like, I can't engage with this movie the
[59:45] Speaker 2: way I want to, which is I can't see it,
[59:47] Speaker 2: but I can read about it. And I can, like,
[59:50] Speaker 2: think about it in my bedroom.
[59:51] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[59:51] Speaker 1: About, like, ugh.
[59:53] Speaker 2: I hope it doesn't flop. This will be bad for Universal.
[59:55] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[59:55] Speaker 1: And also start forming a cultural opinion on what maybe
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: would be deserving of that kind of money. Understanding it
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: as a hierarchy in that way is like really, I think,
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: important for someone that's endeavoring to be like involved in
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: all of this. It's like– that's like– that is truly–
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: I mean– This is basic building block stuff. If you're
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: going to be sitting here, you have to know about
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: Waterworld's historic bomb and the fact that it is an
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: enduring legacy property because of the stunt show at Universal
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: Studios Hollywood.
[1:00:29] Speaker 4: That's what I was thinking you were going to say
[1:00:30] Speaker 4: because that's my fave, Waterworld.
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite hypocritical situations in the history
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: of pop culture.
[1:00:38] Speaker 3: It failed and yet it gets.
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: It is the most popular stunt show in theme park history.
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: And it didn't actually bomb.
[1:00:45] Speaker 3: Really?
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: Which in Entertainment Weekly taught me like a year after
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: it came out.
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: Talk about that. People just thought it bombed.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: There was a, and I've actually considered going on eBay
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: and getting it because I have like this vivid memory
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: of like the cover is someone, it's like Denzel or Julia.
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: I feel like it's like Pelican Brief season. And there
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: is a call out in the top that's like, surprise,
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: Waterworld did okay. So anytime I think of Waterworld, I'm like,
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: it did okay according to Entertainment Weekly in 1997. So
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: then does this.
[1:01:10] Speaker 3: Change anything for you in terms of the prevailing narrative
[1:01:14] Speaker 3: around Waterworld, which is that it was a big bomb.
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: I mean for me it's like it it doesn't even
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: matter factually and logistically what it is it exists it
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: exists in the fabric yes of pop culture as this
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: enduring thing because people had conversation about it at all
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: yeah you know what i mean i would be very
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: interested to see what the top 10 movies of that
[1:01:38] Speaker 1: what was that 96 96 wow i thought it was
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: way earlier than it was Something in there. I would
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: be very curious to see what the top 10 movies
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: of 1995 were and if they are discussed, revered, culturally
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: observed in any way like the movie Waterworld.
[1:01:59] Speaker 3: No, totally.
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: Which has something people think about every day. I think
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: about that all the time with theme parks. Someone is
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: experiencing that cinematic culture today. It's happening thousands of times
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: a day every day.
[1:02:11] Speaker 4: Are they going to go watch Waterworld now?
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: No. No? No.
[1:02:15] Speaker 4: You know what I mean? They're just going to know
[1:02:17] Speaker 4: the idea of something called Waterworld. They won't even know
[1:02:21] Speaker 4: who's in it.
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: Right. But they'll know that it's probably having to do
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: with a water world.
[1:02:28] Speaker 4: Like Avatar.
[1:02:30] Speaker 1: Right. The Way of Water. The Way of Water. Water World.
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: Perfect title because it was Avatar but water.
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: They were in water region.
[1:02:38] Speaker 4: Which is an iconic thing where you just take your
[1:02:41] Speaker 4: thing and you put it in water.
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: If you have a sequel, all you have to do
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: for the sequel title is just like either put it
[1:02:46] Speaker 1: in water or if it's not in water, just describe
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: it so that people can understand it as if it
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: was in water.
[1:02:52] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: Like fire and ash. Like, you know, it's going to
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: be like, there's going to be like fiery, ashy.
[1:02:57] Speaker 4: Yeah, 100%.
[1:02:58] Speaker 1: What you can expect from the water, you're going to
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: get from more fire.
[1:03:01] Speaker 3: More ash. It's the James Cameron thing of like, he
[1:03:04] Speaker 3: wants people who don't speak the language of English. He
[1:03:08] Speaker 3: wants people to watch any of the Avatar movies in English,
[1:03:10] Speaker 3: even if they don't understand English.
[1:03:12] Speaker 4: They get water.
[1:03:12] Speaker 3: To understand the movies at all.
[1:03:14] Speaker 1: Water.
[1:03:15] Speaker 4: Period.
[1:03:15] Speaker 3: Visually, you get it.
[1:03:16] Speaker 4: They almost drowned Kate Winslet. It better have been.
[1:03:19] Speaker 3: It worked. I know.
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: And I think we know where the next five-star weekend's
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: going to be.
[1:03:23] Speaker 3: Water.
[1:03:25] Speaker 4: In the water.
[1:03:25] Speaker 1: Water in the water.
[1:03:27] Speaker 4: Jennifer Garner could hold her breath for seven minutes.
[1:03:29] Speaker 3: Absolutely.
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: 100%.
[1:03:29] Speaker 4: If she put her mind to it.
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: Absolutely.
[1:03:31] Speaker 4: Alias training.
[1:03:31] Speaker 3: So real.
[1:03:32] Speaker 1: She is limitless.
[1:03:34] Speaker 3: I believe that.
[1:03:35] Speaker 1: And I've known it since 13 going on 30.
[1:03:36] Speaker 4: I believe it.
[1:03:37] Speaker 1: And people might yell because they might say, well, we've
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: known it since Alias. But we didn't really know it
[1:03:44] Speaker 1: until 13 going on 30 because... 13 going on 30
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: is a more difficult performance to give than alias.
[1:03:50] Speaker 3: Speak more.
[1:03:52] Speaker 1: Think that not, I mean, you'll, you'll notice that when
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: someone like gets into a place where it's like, wow,
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: you've really conquered like dramatic television. Maybe you're a charming,
[1:04:05] Speaker 1: romantic comedy heroine. That is really hard to do just
[1:04:10] Speaker 1: to be like guileless and charming. And like, you know
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: what I mean? On screen to carry that and play
[1:04:15] Speaker 1: a 13 year old. the best scene of Jennifer Garner's
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: career to me.
[1:04:19] Speaker 3: Oh, you, you, you love me.
[1:04:21] Speaker 1: I honestly, I haven't seen every scene in Jennifer Garner's career,
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: but it's the end of 13 going on 30 when
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: a young Mark Ruffalo is like, has moved on and
[1:04:33] Speaker 1: got married and stuff. He has, he's getting married and
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: she's brought her doll house and she's like, I love you, Maddie.
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: You're my best friend. And I'm like, Oh, This woman
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: is eating it up. And not everyone can do that.
[1:04:48] Speaker 3: We love you, Jennifer.
[1:04:49] Speaker 1: It's like when Sandra Bullock receives. No one is better.
[1:04:54] Speaker 3: At receiving a monologue.
[1:04:55] Speaker 1: At receiving a monologue.
[1:04:57] Speaker 3: Than Sandra Bullock.
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: That is usually about how the person is in love
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: with her. Then Sandra Bullock. The end of the proposal.
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: The score tries to fuck it up. The fact that
[1:05:07] Speaker 1: they did reshoots and her hair is parted differently in
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: every single shot they cut to her tries to fuck
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: it up. The fact that the extras are all doing
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: too much threatens to fuck it up.
[1:05:16] Speaker 4: But no.
[1:05:18] Speaker 1: Sandra lands that emotional plane so well. And all you
[1:05:24] Speaker 1: can say while it's happening is she's doing it. She's
[1:05:28] Speaker 1: doing it. She's being a movie star.
[1:05:31] Speaker 4: She really is a movie star.
[1:05:32] Speaker 3: She is.
[1:05:33] Speaker 4: Every time she comes back, we're like, she's back. Our
[1:05:36] Speaker 4: movie star. Our movie star.
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: Also out this summer of Waterworld, The Net.
[1:05:41] Speaker 3: The Net. The Net.
[1:05:42] Speaker 4: The Net. That's my Waterworld.
[1:05:46] Speaker 1: That's real culture number eight. The Net, that's my Waterworld.
[1:05:49] Speaker 4: Imagine how scary a stunts The Net would be.
[1:05:53] Speaker 1: Oh, get out.
[1:05:53] Speaker 4: Stunts show The Net.
[1:05:54] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[1:05:55] Speaker 4: You're getting hacked.
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: So scary, so realistic. I think The Net is the
[1:06:00] Speaker 1: reboot we needed over Practical Magic. Not the reboot, but
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: like the sequel.
[1:06:04] Speaker 3: It'd be more topical. It would be more topical. It's
[1:06:07] Speaker 3: happening again. Oh my God. Think about that.
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: I like that as the tagline.
[1:06:10] Speaker 2: The net.
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: It's happening again.
[1:06:14] Speaker 4: It's happening again.
[1:06:15] Speaker 1: Should we write it?
[1:06:16] Speaker 3: Yeah. Who owns that? Oh, God.
[1:06:19] Speaker 1: See, this is the part that sucks.
[1:06:20] Speaker 3: This is the part that sucks.
[1:06:21] Speaker 4: I know, I know.
[1:06:22] Speaker 1: Like, on this podcast, we can be like, what if
[1:06:25] Speaker 1: it's the net two? It's happening again. And we can
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: have fun with it. You bring it to a network,
[1:06:29] Speaker 1: they're confused. They don't get it.
[1:06:32] Speaker 4: They're like, we gotta talk to so-and-so. It's like, I
[1:06:35] Speaker 4: wrote it on a podcast.
[1:06:36] Speaker 3: I wrote it on a podcast. Take it. I have
[1:06:38] Speaker 3: the name.
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: Allison's going to love it. We'll need Sydney Sweeney to
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: be Angela Bennett. It's going to be tough.
[1:06:43] Speaker 1: Fine. Fine.
[1:06:44] Speaker 4: She would kind of slay.
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: She might slay.
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: She might eat that up.
[1:06:47] Speaker 3: Wait, did your dad text back? Yeah.
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Wait, my phone is buzzing.
[1:06:50] Speaker 4: I heard a buzz and I said, dad texted. What
[1:06:52] Speaker 4: do you say?
[1:06:53] Speaker 1: Okay, my mom is texting me.
[1:06:55] Speaker 4: Well, tell her to.
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: Landed, which means they just got off a plane.
[1:06:58] Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
[1:06:58] Speaker 4: Great, great, great.
[1:06:58] Speaker 3: It's going to take him a while to think about.
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: Did my dad respond? Okay, ask dad if.
[1:07:03] Speaker 4: No, now mom has.
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: To ask dad. Well, I'm going to say, yay, because
[1:07:06] Speaker 1: it's good for them to know that you're happy. No, totally, totally. Yay.
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: Ask dad if he knows who Sidney Sweeney is. Okay.
[1:07:15] Speaker 3: I bet he does.
[1:07:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think he would lie?
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: Social experiment. I'm not even going to say it's a
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: social experiment.
[1:07:20] Speaker 3: It's quite honest. Honest, upstanding.
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: And be honest.
[1:07:24] Speaker 4: That kind of gives the taste that.
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: Something might be.
[1:07:26] Speaker 3: You're right.
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: I'm not going to say anything. Do you know who
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: Sandra Bullock is? And do you know who Sidney Sweeney is?
[1:07:32] Speaker 4: Be honest.
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: Those have very, leave different tastes in one's mouth.
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: Of course, yeah. You know, Sandra Bullock was my dad's crush.
[1:07:37] Speaker 3: In the 90s. Uh-huh. Pretty good.
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: She looks like my mom when she was young-ish.
[1:07:42] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:07:42] Speaker 1: Maybe-ish.
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: This is like after Speed or after?
[1:07:45] Speaker 1: This is like, I'm sure around Speed because what person
[1:07:49] Speaker 1: isn't watching that film being like, that's my crush?
[1:07:51] Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
[1:07:53] Speaker 4: Yeah. But I feel like congeniality was where the full
[1:07:57] Speaker 4: culture enveloped.
[1:07:58] Speaker 2: She's falling down all the time.
[1:07:59] Speaker 3: I love that.
[1:08:00] Speaker 4: Are they making another one?
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: I hope so.
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: They really should. I mean, okay, first of all, Armed
[1:08:05] Speaker 1: and Fabulous, don't play with me about Armed and Fabulous.
[1:08:09] Speaker 3: You don't like it.
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: I don't like it.
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: Am I playing with you?
[1:08:12] Speaker 1: It's bad.
[1:08:13] Speaker 3: I didn't see it. It's bad.
[1:08:14] Speaker 4: But it's, yeah.
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: Regina deserved better. You know what?
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: You can play with me about it. It's bad.
[1:08:20] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay.
[1:08:22] Speaker 1: Mom.
[1:08:23] Speaker 3: LOL.
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: He is Googling her now. He said he's heard of her. Oh,
[1:08:27] Speaker 1: are you asking because of the commercial that she does? LOL.
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: This is every, all the commercial. This is what I
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: needed to know.
[1:08:35] Speaker 4: They're seeing her name in headlines and on the news.
[1:08:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: Yeah. They didn't see anyone but you.
[1:08:42] Speaker 3: It's not about, it's not about the work. And I
[1:08:45] Speaker 3: think what thems ultimately want is to be recognized for
[1:08:49] Speaker 3: the work.
[1:08:49] Speaker 4: I know, which is hard because it conflicts with the
[1:08:51] Speaker 4: work you have to do sometimes to make money.
[1:08:53] Speaker 3: Exactly. And live.
[1:08:54] Speaker 4: And pay a stylist.
[1:08:56] Speaker 3: There are just so many things that, like the rip,
[1:08:58] Speaker 3: like the tear down the phone. of you. There are
[1:09:02] Speaker 3: so many things about the experience of it that just
[1:09:05] Speaker 3: cheapen the whole thing. Yeah. And that's what's, I don't know.
[1:09:07] Speaker 3: It's just, yeah.
[1:09:09] Speaker 4: Bums you out.
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: You know who else is like a perfect case study
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: who you also discuss in this for so many elements
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: of this is Jamie Lee Curtis.
[1:09:17] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[1:09:17] Speaker 1: Jamie Lee Curtis has gone from them to who and
[1:09:21] Speaker 1: them to who. And even though she still remained like,
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: like the who-iness of doing the Activia ads. Mm-hmm. That
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: was like the start of something. That was like the
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: start of shame going away, I think.
[1:09:34] Speaker 3: What could be more vulnerable than... Yeah. Yeah.
[1:09:38] Speaker 4: Well, remember when movie stars being on TV was shameful? Right.
[1:09:42] Speaker 4: Or hooey or whatever, and now it's literally every movie
[1:09:46] Speaker 4: star is on TV.
[1:09:46] Speaker 3: It's all we want.
[1:09:47] Speaker 4: It's all we want, and they're happy to do it
[1:09:49] Speaker 4: because the money is there as well, and there's money
[1:09:51] Speaker 4: in TV to make them look good, Apple TV, et cetera.
[1:09:54] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
[1:09:54] Speaker 4: But it's like, there are so many things that were,
[1:09:57] Speaker 4: it took one person to break that. And then it's like,
[1:09:59] Speaker 4: now it's fine. Anyone can do it. Maybe Jamie Lee's yogurt, like,
[1:10:03] Speaker 4: opened the door for everyone else.
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: That was, who did the Kristen Wiig?
[1:10:08] Speaker 3: Kristen Wiig did the SNL parody. Kristen Wiig was the Activia.
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: Like, those were such a joke for so long. And
[1:10:13] Speaker 2: she never stopped. She did them forever.
[1:10:15] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: And I think that she was kind of ahead of
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: the curve. And like, I don't care what you say.
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: This is a good check. And, like, it's keeping me
[1:10:22] Speaker 2: in the public eye. And she laughed all the way
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: to the Oscar stage, ultimately.
[1:10:26] Speaker 4: All the way to the Oscar stage.
[1:10:27] Speaker 1: You also mentioned that she did a podcast. She did.
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: For like 30 episodes.
[1:10:31] Speaker 3: Very, very briefly.
[1:10:32] Speaker 1: Which I remember. I remember she.
[1:10:33] Speaker 4: And now the who-iest thing you can do as a
[1:10:34] Speaker 4: celebrity is start a podcast and abandon it.
[1:10:36] Speaker 3: And then abandon it.
[1:10:36] Speaker 4: And not say a word ever again about it.
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:10:39] Speaker 4: It was like Jamie Lee Curtis's good friend. That's what
[1:10:41] Speaker 4: it was called or whatever. And it was like, let
[1:10:43] Speaker 4: me talk to my good friend.
[1:10:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
[1:10:45] Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden.
[1:10:46] Speaker 1: It was like Lea Michele and Jonathan Groff.
[1:10:47] Speaker 3: She ran out of friends.
[1:10:48] Speaker 1: It's like, I think they were doing press.
[1:10:49] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:10:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:10:50] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:10:51] Speaker 4: So anyways, that's my new determiner.
[1:10:53] Speaker 3: I know we have... I know we're like, we've branched
[1:10:56] Speaker 3: off in different, slightly different directions in terms of, despite
[1:10:59] Speaker 3: starting at the same time, and we've branched off in
[1:11:00] Speaker 3: slightly different directions in terms of podcasting. But I do feel,
[1:11:03] Speaker 3: especially after reading that chapter, I do feel this sort
[1:11:05] Speaker 3: of like, I'm going to say pride and just sort
[1:11:08] Speaker 3: of like protectiveness over the medium. I'm like, wait, like,
[1:11:14] Speaker 3: this is important. And Story of Your Life, Catherine Desire Morton,
[1:11:16] Speaker 3: it's like, she writes about how like, you know, social
[1:11:19] Speaker 3: media is all about capture and, Something like podcasting or
[1:11:23] Speaker 3: just conversations where, you know, there's no.
[1:11:26] Speaker 3: Let's just say, like, there's a conversation without cameras and microphones.
[1:11:29] Speaker 3: It's all about release or something. It's just about, like,
[1:11:35] Speaker 3: letting your thoughts unfurl and taking things back and then walking...
[1:11:38] Speaker 3: But then pushing things forward and then talking over each other.
[1:11:40] Speaker 3: And there's just something about... Not to, like, lionize what
[1:11:45] Speaker 3: we do too much.
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: No, just do it.
[1:11:46] Speaker 3: There's just something... There's an antidotal aspect to what we do,
[1:11:51] Speaker 3: I think.
[1:11:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, do you think kind of the long-form, free-form nature
[1:11:56] Speaker 4: of podcasts will bring, how am I saying this, will
[1:12:02] Speaker 4: make people more aware of what they're saying and then
[1:12:05] Speaker 4: they'll want to say more interesting things or something? It challenges.
[1:12:10] Speaker 1: I do think it's kind of the last place where
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: you're going to get the interesting nuggets that they stopped
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: giving you in the profiles. Because you talk about the
[1:12:20] Speaker 1: self-awareness of the subject receiving the profile. And I think
[1:12:24] Speaker 1: a way that was starting to become like, it literally
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: was parodying itself. It's like, how many times can you
[1:12:30] Speaker 1: read an article that's like, Gwyneth Paltrow walks into Cafe
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: Jetan wearing a simple white button down and she effortlessly
[1:12:41] Speaker 1: tosses a cashmere sweater across the table. I love this place,
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: she says. Like, as someone sweeps over and brings her
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: her almond latte.
[1:12:50] Speaker 3: Pitch this.
[1:12:51] Speaker 1: I want to read that, unfortunately. Pitch this. People figure
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: it out how to do that so well. I don't
[1:12:56] Speaker 1: want that to happen with this. I don't want someone,
[1:12:59] Speaker 1: and it's happened a couple times with celebrities that have
[1:13:01] Speaker 1: come in here where I'm like, You're treating it like press.
[1:13:05] Speaker 4: I'm sure.
[1:13:06] Speaker 1: And it makes me itch because we don't like doing it.
[1:13:10] Speaker 1: And also, I know the readers don't like listening to it.
[1:13:13] Speaker 4: Well, they see through it.
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: They do see through it.
[1:13:14] Speaker 4: Because they're smart.
[1:13:15] Speaker 3: They're smart. They are smart.
[1:13:16] Speaker 2: They're smart.
[1:13:16] Speaker 1: They are smart. We repeat it 50 more times. They're smart.
[1:13:20] Speaker 1: They're smart.
[1:13:21] Speaker 3: They're smart. But I think what I'm kind of like
[1:13:24] Speaker 3: ensconcing with us, let's say, is like, on a fundamental,
[1:13:31] Speaker 3: I think our podcast and your podcast will never change
[1:13:33] Speaker 3: because of the friendship.
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:13:36] Speaker 3: I think that, I know that sounds so corny and stuff,
[1:13:40] Speaker 3: but it's like, honestly, like that is what keeps it.
[1:13:43] Speaker 3: That is like the binding agent of the whole thing.
[1:13:45] Speaker 3: Like I, like, Demi Lovato's not gonna post her podcast
[1:13:48] Speaker 3: anymore because she wants to do, she does, this is not,
[1:13:51] Speaker 3: nothing is keeping her there.
[1:13:53] Speaker 4: It's like, I'm always wanting to talk to Bobby about
[1:13:56] Speaker 4: some bullshit, like celebrity stuff, like whatever it is, and
[1:13:59] Speaker 4: same with you guys, on mic, off mic, it doesn't matter,
[1:14:02] Speaker 4: and also people can tell when you're not Being yourself.
[1:14:05] Speaker 4: Feeling that.
[1:14:06] Speaker 3: Exactly. Whatever.
[1:14:07] Speaker 4: I mean, this is all, I don't know about you guys,
[1:14:09] Speaker 4: but half the shit we say is group chat. It's
[1:14:12] Speaker 4: from the group chat.
[1:14:13] Speaker 2: We've already talked about it.
[1:14:13] Speaker 4: We've already talked about it. What did everyone think about this?
[1:14:16] Speaker 4: Is this interesting to everyone? It's group chat research.
[1:14:19] Speaker 1: I think that obviously another huge difference between what... both
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: our podcasts do is like, we have had guests from
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: the very beginning. Like our, our, we had our first
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: episode that was us. And then every single episode we
[1:14:31] Speaker 1: had a guest until the pandemic. And we started doing
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: really just the things with the two of us. But
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: the thing is like, when you have a guest of
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: a certain magnitude, of course you think, what we hope
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: every single time is that it just feels like this.
[1:14:47] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
[1:14:47] Speaker 1: And I think we started to think of it as
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: a little bit of a challenge. Like, can we get
[1:14:51] Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez in here and get her to talk to
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: us like this? And I think we have varying degrees
[1:14:57] Speaker 1: of success. But it's interesting because it feels like the
[1:15:02] Speaker 1: assumption that's being made is, oh, they just want to
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: bring famous people in. But I think the goal is,
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: every single time, is to have people it feel like this.
[1:15:12] Speaker 4: It's a challenge for you.
[1:15:13] Speaker 1: And so, and so.
[1:15:14] Speaker 4: You're like, how famous can we get them and how
[1:15:16] Speaker 4: real can we get the famous people to be?
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: Because sometimes you hit a home run and you get
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: like someone like Jennifer Lawrence in.
[1:15:22] Speaker 3: Right. Exactly.
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: Without having to.
[1:15:23] Speaker 4: Without torturing them.
[1:15:24] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: Just by nature of the atmosphere and being what it is.
[1:15:28] Speaker 1: And obviously in a media landscape and in like a
[1:15:31] Speaker 1: medium that is changing along with us, we can't tell
[1:15:35] Speaker 1: what that's going to be. And we're still learning like
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: 10 years in, I'm sure the ways in which you
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: guys are still learning about your podcast and the dynamics
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: of it. But it's, it's exactly like you said, like
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: as it's changing alongside you, you can't prepare for how
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: it's all going to feel, you know?
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: Of course.
[1:15:52] Speaker 2: So we had guests two or three times and we said,
[1:15:56] Speaker 2: we don't want to do this anymore.
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: Great.
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: And because it's a different show than yours. And we
[1:16:01] Speaker 2: were like, if we're going to, if we're going to
[1:16:03] Speaker 2: comment on what you are doing in the media specifically
[1:16:07] Speaker 2: and we don't want to be that media.
[1:16:09] Speaker 3: Totally. It ruined the magic.
[1:16:12] Speaker 2: It's the same reason like we've had a couple of opportunities,
[1:16:14] Speaker 2: not through her official channels, but through like media, some publications.
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: They were like, would you two? want to write the
[1:16:20] Speaker 2: cover story on Rita Ora for X magazine. And we're like, no,
[1:16:23] Speaker 2: absolutely not. Because that breaks the fourth wall.
[1:16:27] Speaker 3: It breaks the seal.
[1:16:27] Speaker 2: It's like, we want no part of that.
[1:16:29] Speaker 4: But what we liked when we did do interviews is
[1:16:31] Speaker 4: that we, and these people you run out of quick,
[1:16:34] Speaker 4: we realized, is we would choose people who were like
[1:16:36] Speaker 4: kind of self-aware about their own fame.
[1:16:38] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:16:38] Speaker 4: Busy Phillips.
[1:16:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:16:39] Speaker 4: Spencer Pratt.
[1:16:40] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:16:41] Speaker 3: Some Bachelor people. Eight years ago.
[1:16:43] Speaker 4: Ashley I.
[1:16:44] Speaker 1: Wow, Ashley I. Isn't it funny to watch what's happened there?
[1:16:48] Speaker 1: Because she was a real favorite of Bachelor Nation watchers.
[1:16:52] Speaker 4: The crying just has been there from the start. Really,
[1:16:54] Speaker 4: somebody who is so utterly herself and can't help it.
[1:16:58] Speaker 4: That's who we want to talk to. And then we
[1:17:00] Speaker 4: realized very quickly that we would run out of those people.
[1:17:03] Speaker 3: We did run out of them.
[1:17:05] Speaker 2: And for every busy, there would be 50 celebrities who
[1:17:08] Speaker 2: weren't as down and weren't as open or even, like,
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: aware of their place in fame. And not in a
[1:17:16] Speaker 2: derogatory way. It's just, like, they never really had the
[1:17:19] Speaker 2: opportunity or time to take a step back and realize
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: where they were. And it might be better that they
[1:17:22] Speaker 2: don't think about it.
[1:17:22] Speaker 4: It might be better for them that they're not processing, processing.
[1:17:25] Speaker 2: And it wasn't... We worried that it wouldn't be fun.
[1:17:28] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:17:29] Speaker 3: That's a huge consideration that you guys, I think, should
[1:17:33] Speaker 3: be very proud of. I think we are not quite
[1:17:34] Speaker 3: as discerning because, literally... all we are only guiding principle
[1:17:39] Speaker 3: in terms of booking people is, Oh, that's, this is
[1:17:41] Speaker 3: just somebody we want to talk to. Yeah.
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: I mean, I think our thing is like, do they
[1:17:45] Speaker 1: have like an identifiable cultural identity and are we both
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: excited about it? And do we feel like there's a
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: good chance we could provide something fun and nutritional for
[1:17:57] Speaker 1: the readers of the podcast? And I think if we've
[1:18:01] Speaker 1: ever like, there's been a couple of times where we
[1:18:03] Speaker 1: walk in the room after it and we're like, fuck.
[1:18:05] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:18:06] Speaker 1: But almost never. Like, that's the thing is, like, we
[1:18:10] Speaker 1: enjoy it.
[1:18:10] Speaker 3: And I feel fine being lumped in with, like, the other, like, cushy,
[1:18:15] Speaker 3: friendly celeb podcast spaces. I think there's more to us
[1:18:20] Speaker 3: than that. But that's just us sort of self-preserving.
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:18:23] Speaker 4: It's also your brand.
[1:18:25] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:18:26] Speaker 4: It's not you guys for GQ. It's not you guys
[1:18:28] Speaker 4: for Vogue.
[1:18:29] Speaker 1: It's not you guys.
[1:18:30] Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying is, like, that presentation, I think,
[1:18:32] Speaker 4: is when people are like, Ask.
[1:18:33] Speaker 3: A question, please.
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: Like, a real question.
[1:18:35] Speaker 4: Like, this is your brand. Like, you are deciding the
[1:18:38] Speaker 4: temperature of your conversations with people.
[1:18:40] Speaker 3: Sure.
[1:18:41] Speaker 1: And they want to have fun. It's just that it's
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: so hard now with Hulu because they um so difficult
[1:18:47] Speaker 1: they have constant notes um they want our episodes to
[1:18:51] Speaker 1: be uh six and a half minutes so they're quibby
[1:18:57] Speaker 1: it might be time it might be time it might
[1:18:59] Speaker 1: be time for i don't think so honey we were
[1:19:01] Speaker 1: we were we we came in we've been trying to
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: do like secret bits with all of our guests and
[1:19:06] Speaker 1: the one today was just going to be holding up
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: the book upside down every time, but you guys caught on.
[1:19:11] Speaker 2: I liked it.
[1:19:13] Speaker 3: I liked it.
[1:19:14] Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're doing.
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: That was the thing is I think note for us
[1:19:17] Speaker 1: is we have to find ways to less obviously lean
[1:19:22] Speaker 1: in and enjoy our own bit at the top.
[1:19:25] Speaker 3: It was funny.
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: Because we did that in unison because I think.
[1:19:28] Speaker 3: Sometimes we can't help it. I don't think so, honey.
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: A little hair in the book.
[1:19:34] Speaker 4: That's in there.
[1:19:35] Speaker 3: That's supposed to be there. It comes with every book.
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: It's Rita Ora's. It's Rita Ora's. Okay. Well, this is
[1:19:43] Speaker 1: going to be, I don't think so, honey. This is
[1:19:46] Speaker 1: our 62nd segment wherein we tear something up in pop
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: culture or at large in culture. I also will say
[1:19:54] Speaker 1: this has been one of my favorite episodes we've done
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: in a very long time. That's so nice.
[1:19:59] Speaker 3: I said ever.
[1:20:00] Speaker 1: Ever I just feel like it's.
[1:20:01] Speaker 4: Also been a long time coming because I think our
[1:20:04] Speaker 4: listeners were like are you guys even friends like why
[1:20:06] Speaker 4: haven't they had you on and I'm kind of like
[1:20:08] Speaker 4: we get.
[1:20:08] Speaker 2: A lot of do you hate them no yeah no
[1:20:11] Speaker 2: to us to yeah yeah yeah as if we're supposed
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: to you know like be back.
[1:20:15] Speaker 1: You know what it is that thing though.
[1:20:17] Speaker 4: Because I think because we're you know we're brothers so
[1:20:19] Speaker 4: it's like people are kind of like you're having the
[1:20:21] Speaker 4: same conversation sometimes you should be having it with each
[1:20:24] Speaker 4: other and I'm like we should the positive way is
[1:20:28] Speaker 4: more just like you guys, you have the same listeners.
[1:20:31] Speaker 1: Yeah. We love them.
[1:20:32] Speaker 4: So why are you not hanging out with them?
[1:20:34] Speaker 2: And also, we don't go on podcasts much.
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: No.
[1:20:36] Speaker 2: But now we're promoting this book, so we're doing it
[1:20:38] Speaker 2: a lot.
[1:20:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:20:39] Speaker 4: No, I'm saying, and I mean this is like, I'm
[1:20:42] Speaker 4: so pleased that we finally did it.
[1:20:45] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:20:45] Speaker 1: How was your experience in the clubhouse with Andy?
[1:20:48] Speaker 4: Incredible. What a professional.
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: He's a pro. What a professional. Also, when he took
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: a photo of us, I.
[1:20:53] Speaker 4: Was like a cardboard cutout. I mean, he's perfect.
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:20:55] Speaker 4: He's perfect.
[1:20:56] Speaker 1: He's a perfect celebrity in the words of Lady Gaga.
[1:20:58] Speaker 2: I know he's a reader, and I would love to
[1:21:00] Speaker 2: believe that he read it, but the way... I assume
[1:21:04] Speaker 2: he didn't have time.
[1:21:04] Speaker 3: He's busy.
[1:21:05] Speaker 2: When he told us that he liked the book and
[1:21:07] Speaker 2: thought it was so smart backstage, I found myself thinking,
[1:21:11] Speaker 2: I both don't believe that you had time to read
[1:21:13] Speaker 2: this book, and also... That is the most wonderful compliment
[1:21:16] Speaker 2: I ever could have. Like, you are so good at
[1:21:18] Speaker 2: delivering this.
[1:21:19] Speaker 3: That's what he said. I believe that he read it.
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:21:21] Speaker 3: I think I 60% do. Forget it.
[1:21:25] Speaker 2: And it's fully not about that. I know he's a reader.
[1:21:27] Speaker 3: He's a writer.
[1:21:27] Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't think he does so much.
[1:21:30] Speaker 2: And I'm like, how did you have time for Arbo?
[1:21:31] Speaker 4: But talk about a show.
[1:21:32] Speaker 2: But I trust it.
[1:21:32] Speaker 4: A perfect show.
[1:21:33] Speaker 2: Perfect show. Oh, yeah.
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: We love watching that. A perfect show.
[1:21:37] Speaker 4: Snappy talk about bravo people feel comfortable they're drinking they're
[1:21:40] Speaker 4: having fun the audience is small they're reactive i'm just
[1:21:43] Speaker 4: like that's a perfect show.
[1:21:45] Speaker 1: And also if there's any book that is up his
[1:21:47] Speaker 1: alley it's.
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: I absolutely think it's the best week ever silliness that
[1:21:52] Speaker 2: we respond to i know writing a book.
[1:21:54] Speaker 4: About celebrities is that the people we talk about i
[1:21:56] Speaker 4: hope that maybe some of them will read it and
[1:21:58] Speaker 4: be like.
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: Useful like oh okay cool honestly.
[1:22:01] Speaker 4: I'm using it or i'm thinking about this more oh
[1:22:04] Speaker 4: It's given.
[1:22:04] Speaker 3: Me such a frame, like a new framework on just
[1:22:07] Speaker 3: thinking about fame.
[1:22:08] Speaker 4: Yeah, and like positive, hopefully in a positive way.
[1:22:11] Speaker 3: Completely holistic. The great, the bad. The good, the bad.
[1:22:14] Speaker 1: Because it makes you laugh at it again. Yes. Because
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: sometimes it was... It's so silly. Sometimes when it's uncomfortable
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: and it feels... Like, the perception is that you're craven
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: about it. It gets to be a bummer. And then
[1:22:29] Speaker 1: you're like, my God, this is so dumb.
[1:22:31] Speaker 3: Like, you know what I mean?
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: Like, it's just chicken show.
[1:22:34] Speaker 4: Chicken show.
[1:22:35] Speaker 3: It's like, we're pals with him. It's like, I laugh
[1:22:38] Speaker 3: about Ben Platt being on the Wicked Forum. You know,
[1:22:40] Speaker 3: just being like, hi, my name is Ben Platt.
[1:22:42] Speaker 4: One of the most important kind of screenshots of our time.
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: Truly.
[1:22:45] Speaker 4: And that's important that he should know that.
[1:22:47] Speaker 3: Like, it's all... It's all on the matrix. It's culture.
[1:22:51] Speaker 3: It's culture.
[1:22:52] Speaker 4: It's culture.
[1:22:52] Speaker 3: Sorry, okay, now you need to be here.
[1:22:54] Speaker 4: I was interrupting.
[1:22:54] Speaker 3: It's really important.
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey, and
[1:22:57] Speaker 1: his time starts now.
[1:22:58] Speaker 3: I Don't Think So Honey's saying, oh, well, that kind
[1:23:00] Speaker 3: of food doesn't travel well. Food is not meant to
[1:23:05] Speaker 3: travel at all. It's supposed to travel from the kitchen
[1:23:08] Speaker 3: to the fucking table. Yeah, it's going to come. It's
[1:23:10] Speaker 3: going to be a little mushy. It's not going to
[1:23:12] Speaker 3: be optimal. But you're going to eat it with a
[1:23:14] Speaker 3: plastic fork anyway at your job.
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: It's okay.
[1:23:18] Speaker 3: There's no need to be sanctimonious about the integrity structurally
[1:23:22] Speaker 3: about food. We're all bull slop, trough, pigs. It's okay.
[1:23:28] Speaker 3: 30 seconds.
[1:23:28] Speaker 1: We don't have to be.
[1:23:29] Speaker 3: Fastidious about the way food is presented unless you're at
[1:23:32] Speaker 3: this gorgeously curated dining experience. So being a little persnickety
[1:23:37] Speaker 3: about like, oh, let's not do soup dumplings doesn't travel well.
[1:23:40] Speaker 3: Just get a spoon or sip the broth from the
[1:23:44] Speaker 3: plastic tub like the rest of us. You don't need
[1:23:47] Speaker 3: to be all buttoned up about it. There's no etiquette
[1:23:50] Speaker 3: when it comes to this. Travel well is a farce.
[1:23:54] Speaker 3: It ends up limiting your options, doesn't it?
[1:23:58] Speaker 1: And that's one minute.
[1:23:58] Speaker 3: Order whatever you want.
[1:24:00] Speaker 1: As a crab lover, like... As a crab lover.
[1:24:02] Speaker 3: Yes, say that.
[1:24:03] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
[1:24:05] Speaker 4: No, yeah, say that.
[1:24:06] Speaker 1: As a crab lover. As a crab lover, this is
[1:24:08] Speaker 1: something I think about.
[1:24:09] Speaker 3: Just order it. Doesn't matter.
[1:24:12] Speaker 1: I did one time, and then... The thing about it is, it's...
[1:24:16] Speaker 1: You're saying it doesn't travel.
[1:24:17] Speaker 3: It doesn't travel.
[1:24:17] Speaker 4: But how did it come?
[1:24:19] Speaker 3: How did it come?
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: It just came in like a bag. And how far
[1:24:22] Speaker 1: did it go? It comes in like a hot plastic bag.
[1:24:25] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:24:26] Speaker 1: So they deliver it in a hot plastic bag. You
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: open it, it steams out the bag. And then you
[1:24:30] Speaker 1: do have to like put it in the... It's like,
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: you know, it's a thing.
[1:24:34] Speaker 3: Wow, that.
[1:24:35] Speaker 1: I just think.
[1:24:36] Speaker 3: No, it's okay.
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: I just think.
[1:24:38] Speaker 3: just order it anyway and just accept the fact that
[1:24:40] Speaker 3: it's not gonna be it's not gonna be it's not
[1:24:42] Speaker 3: gonna come out like fully plated with a fucking.
[1:24:44] Speaker 1: No yeah it's fine you chose to order in yeah
[1:24:47] Speaker 1: yeah take responsibility well I just think you know a
[1:24:51] Speaker 1: lot of a lot of times you know a lot
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: of my conversations right now at.
[1:24:54] Speaker 3: Work are like people being like oh my god let's
[1:24:55] Speaker 3: order this thing and this thing and this thing to
[1:24:57] Speaker 3: the theater and then people being like well no that
[1:24:58] Speaker 3: doesn't travel I'm like what are you talking about just order.
[1:25:02] Speaker 1: It well then and also like then fine like why
[1:25:05] Speaker 1: I wonder why it's an option then If it doesn't
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: travel well, it certainly would have been taken off the menu.
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
[1:25:11] Speaker 3: And restaurants are coming up with great new innovative ways to,
[1:25:15] Speaker 3: you know, set you up for success.
[1:25:17] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:25:18] Speaker 2: New packaging.
[1:25:19] Speaker 3: New packaging. Oh, let's put the noodles and a broth
[1:25:21] Speaker 3: in separate containers.
[1:25:23] Speaker 1: I love when they do that.
[1:25:24] Speaker 3: Genius. Genius. I know it's extra plastic, but you know.
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: But you know. I know. I have one I just
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: realized I have. And I think it's relevant.
[1:25:32] Speaker 3: I love when you just realize.
[1:25:33] Speaker 1: It's relevant.
[1:25:34] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:25:34] Speaker 3: Okay. Mine wasn't.
[1:25:35] Speaker 2: No, no, no.
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: Yours was super relevant. Yours is relevant, too. I'm happy
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: and enchanted that it's relevant.
[1:25:42] Speaker 3: I love that.
[1:25:43] Speaker 1: I didn't think I'd have a relevant one today.
[1:25:44] Speaker 3: Oh, you're always relevant. This is Matt Rogers. I don't
[1:25:46] Speaker 3: think so, honey. His time starts now.
[1:25:48] Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. You can't say yes to
[1:25:51] Speaker 1: giving a positive... sign on every single book jacket. When
[1:25:57] Speaker 1: people reach out to you, you have to be discerning
[1:26:00] Speaker 1: because sometimes I see blurbs from a lot of the
[1:26:03] Speaker 1: same people. Gia Tolentino.
[1:26:05] Speaker 3: No.
[1:26:05] Speaker 1: Oh, stop. Leave her out of it. I see you
[1:26:08] Speaker 1: in a lot of blurbs.
[1:26:09] Speaker 3: She's a reader.
[1:26:10] Speaker 1: And I know you love this book, but you were
[1:26:12] Speaker 1: also on the story of your life. And I'm just saying.
[1:26:16] Speaker 3: How dare you? 30 seconds. I'm kidding with her. She's
[1:26:19] Speaker 3: going to love this.
[1:26:20] Speaker 2: She's going to love it.
[1:26:21] Speaker 1: Gia, we're going to write a book. And we are
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: going to send it to you. And we want you
[1:26:26] Speaker 1: to be honest. And if you come back and say no,
[1:26:28] Speaker 1: I will respect that.
[1:26:30] Speaker 3: I will respect that.
[1:26:31] Speaker 1: But if you say yes, I'll be like, will you
[1:26:33] Speaker 1: say yes to every book? I see you on every
[1:26:36] Speaker 1: book jacket, Gia Tolentino. I don't think so, honey. And
[1:26:40] Speaker 1: here's what I'll say. Every single book I've seen you
[1:26:42] Speaker 1: on has been delightful. And that's what makes you Gia Tolentino.
[1:26:46] Speaker 1: Don't listen to me. I hope you never do.
[1:26:48] Speaker 3: And that's one minute. Oh, my God.
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: She's going to love that.
[1:26:50] Speaker 2: She's going to love it.
[1:26:52] Speaker 3: She's going to love it.
[1:26:52] Speaker 1: One of the most brilliant. One of the most brilliant.
[1:26:54] Speaker 3: Honestly.
[1:26:55] Speaker 1: And by the way, the collection of people you have...
[1:26:58] Speaker 1: Book jacketing?
[1:26:58] Speaker 2: That's the best part.
[1:27:00] Speaker 3: Let us go crazy.
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: That's the best part.
[1:27:02] Speaker 2: Well, it's like you've, are you like done?
[1:27:05] Speaker 4: You're doing this now? You're doing this now?
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: We are in process of writing the book. Especially after
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: we've read your book, we're going to take more time.
[1:27:12] Speaker 2: But when you're done, you're like, oh, it's done. And
[1:27:14] Speaker 2: then you have to start doing that.
[1:27:15] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:27:16] Speaker 2: And you feel like it's going to be a piece
[1:27:17] Speaker 2: of shit. And it's not until other people start reading it.
[1:27:20] Speaker 2: And they're like, this was really good.
[1:27:22] Speaker 3: And you feel like.
[1:27:23] Speaker 2: No, no it wasn't.
[1:27:24] Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
[1:27:25] Speaker 2: And it's like the best feeling in the world.
[1:27:26] Speaker 4: Like our blur, like we, that's, those are the best people.
[1:27:30] Speaker 1: These are really good people. Sam Irby? Sam Irby and
[1:27:34] Speaker 1: Lena Dunham. Like get out of here. And I love
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: that it says author of Famesick. Not creator of Girls,
[1:27:42] Speaker 1: et cetera. Author of Famesick. Luckily, when we.
[1:27:44] Speaker 4: Were putting this together, that book had just come out
[1:27:46] Speaker 4: and was doing incredibly and we were like, this rocks.
[1:27:48] Speaker 4: Like this is so perfect.
[1:27:49] Speaker 3: And I will also say, I love that you guys
[1:27:51] Speaker 3: shared a bio on the jacket.
[1:27:54] Speaker 4: You guys can do that.
[1:27:54] Speaker 2: That was a conversation.
[1:27:55] Speaker 1: Yeah. That would be nice for us.
[1:27:56] Speaker 3: I think it would be nice for us to share
[1:27:57] Speaker 3: a bio.
[1:27:57] Speaker 4: Also, our photo, just a party photo.
[1:27:59] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:27:59] Speaker 1: We didn't A & L because we didn't fucking care.
[1:28:02] Speaker 4: Because we didn't care.
[1:28:02] Speaker 2: Oh, I love it.
[1:28:03] Speaker 1: And guess what?
[1:28:04] Speaker 4: One less photo shoot, great by me.
[1:28:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, one less photo shoot, less of a risk for
[1:28:07] Speaker 3: Ghislaine Maxwell's name to be on the, to get a
[1:28:10] Speaker 3: photo credit.
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: You know what it should be? It should be Matt
[1:28:12] Speaker 1: Rogers and Bowen Yang are the hosts of Las Culturistas
[1:28:15] Speaker 1: and got their start doing Grey's Anatomy drag. Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
[1:28:21] Speaker 1: Just that. Yes.
[1:28:21] Speaker 3: Just that. It should. People know your bio.
[1:28:24] Speaker 1: They don't even know where you're from.
[1:28:26] Speaker 3: They know where you're from.
[1:28:28] Speaker 1: Who wants to go first? You pick.
[1:28:29] Speaker 3: You go first. Okay.
[1:28:30] Speaker 2: I wanted you to pick because I knew you would
[1:28:33] Speaker 2: have an opinion.
[1:28:34] Speaker 4: Mine is kind of in conversation with our conversation.
[1:28:37] Speaker 2: Oh.
[1:28:38] Speaker 1: Okay. Yours is in conversation.
[1:28:38] Speaker 2: I feel like yours is a better finale.
[1:28:40] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:28:40] Speaker 2: Mine is in conversation with Bowen, sort of.
[1:28:42] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: And that it's related to food and I can get started.
[1:28:45] Speaker 1: Okay. This is Bobby Fingers. I don't think so, honey.
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: Time starts now.
[1:28:48] Speaker 2: This is a product of my horrible algorithm, but I
[1:28:50] Speaker 2: don't think so, honey. Pretending food is something else. Every
[1:28:55] Speaker 2: time I go on Instagram, this is a product of
[1:28:56] Speaker 2: protein culture. They're telling me that Greek yogurt is cheesecake.
[1:29:00] Speaker 2: They're telling me that dates are Snickers bars. I watched
[1:29:03] Speaker 2: a woman from Scotland last night in my bed crush
[1:29:07] Speaker 2: up a baked sweet potato and say, it's a Reese's
[1:29:09] Speaker 2: candy bar. And I was like, no, I reject that.
[1:29:12] Speaker 2: I'm rejecting, not beyond burgers, not zoodles, desserts. It feels
[1:29:17] Speaker 2: especially egregious when it's desserts. When you say, oh, I'm
[1:29:21] Speaker 2: going to mix up this tub of Chobani with Jell-O pudding.
[1:29:24] Speaker 2: That's a trend. And I'm going to call it soft serve.
[1:29:26] Speaker 2: I'm going to mix up cottage cheese.
[1:29:27] Speaker 3: In a blender.
[1:29:28] Speaker 2: And I'm going to say that it's cheesecake. That's not
[1:29:30] Speaker 2: what that is. It's offensive. It's gaslighting.
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: 15 seconds.
[1:29:34] Speaker 2: We're talking about AI. We can't trust anything. I want
[1:29:36] Speaker 2: to be able to trust what's on my plate. Yes.
[1:29:40] Speaker 2: It's making a costume out of cuisine. Drag balons and
[1:29:45] Speaker 2: gay bars not on my plate.
[1:29:46] Speaker 1: And that's one minute. It's almost like hot ice cream.
[1:29:51] Speaker 1: Hot ice cream.
[1:29:53] Speaker 3: Late entry to that book.
[1:29:54] Speaker 2: Which was so crucial.
[1:29:56] Speaker 3: Absolutely.
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: By the way, you tried it? How was it?
[1:29:59] Speaker 2: It was hot chocolate.
[1:30:00] Speaker 3: It's mush.
[1:30:00] Speaker 1: It's liquid.
[1:30:01] Speaker 3: It's hot chocolate.
[1:30:02] Speaker 2: And they kept saying, God bless Tyra Banks. We got
[1:30:05] Speaker 2: to see her. Stunning in person. Never seen her in person.
[1:30:07] Speaker 2: It was unbelievable. Greatest moment of my life. In the
[1:30:09] Speaker 2: 90 minutes before that, they couldn't get the hot ice
[1:30:12] Speaker 2: cream thing to work.
[1:30:13] Speaker 3: Yeah. And I was like.
[1:30:14] Speaker 4: Which I think they were melting ice cream.
[1:30:16] Speaker 3: Chocolate and milk.
[1:30:18] Speaker 4: I think they were melting.
[1:30:20] Speaker 3: The ice cream. What is more appealing? Hot ice cream
[1:30:24] Speaker 3: or serendipity frozen hot chocolate?
[1:30:27] Speaker 4: Serendipity, because they've been doing that for years. They got
[1:30:29] Speaker 4: that down. That is, people are traveling for that.
[1:30:32] Speaker 3: Your niece is going to love it. It's delicious.
[1:30:33] Speaker 4: It's gorgeous. Hot ice cream, paper cup, melted puddle. There's no.
[1:30:38] Speaker 3: I got to go to Australia for it.
[1:30:40] Speaker 1: It makes no sense.
[1:30:40] Speaker 4: It makes no sense.
[1:30:41] Speaker 1: But then it also, that speaks to Tyra's brand. Right, yeah.
[1:30:44] Speaker 4: She's incredible.
[1:30:45] Speaker 2: Do you know she's recording the audio book of Model Land?
[1:30:47] Speaker 3: Model Land, yes, we saw. Oscar Montoya would do his,
[1:30:51] Speaker 3: I think it was a podcast. Our friend Oscar would
[1:30:53] Speaker 3: read a chapter from Model Land. Every single episode. I
[1:30:56] Speaker 3: think somehow he got away with it. I love this.
[1:30:58] Speaker 4: And it goes all the way back. People are discovering
[1:31:00] Speaker 4: it now, but we've lived with this book in our
[1:31:02] Speaker 4: lives forever.
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: I didn't realize there were actually desires to make it
[1:31:07] Speaker 1: a real physical space.
[1:31:08] Speaker 2: COVID ruined it. COVID is why hot ice cream exists.
[1:31:13] Speaker 2: Because she wanted to do a model land theme park. COVID,
[1:31:17] Speaker 2: they were like, no in-person stuff. And she literally said,
[1:31:19] Speaker 2: I have to pivot to ice cream.
[1:31:20] Speaker 3: We need Jenny Nicholson on the case now. Are you
[1:31:24] Speaker 3: guys familiar?
[1:31:24] Speaker 2: Oh my God.
[1:31:25] Speaker 3: A six hour. Well, she's the YouTuber. She has journalistic
[1:31:31] Speaker 3: sort of land.
[1:31:32] Speaker 1: She has bona fides.
[1:31:32] Speaker 3: Peabody, Pulitzer, Nobel, MacArthur. Get on it.
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like the Star Wars Hotel four
[1:31:41] Speaker 1: and a half hour video.
[1:31:43] Speaker 3: Or the Evermore Park in Utah three hour takedown where
[1:31:46] Speaker 3: she does go into the lawsuit with Taylor Swift. It
[1:31:49] Speaker 3: is stunning.
[1:31:50] Speaker 2: I've never seen that one.
[1:31:52] Speaker 3: You're both gonna love it.
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: I mean.
[1:31:53] Speaker 3: Bobby, the food, you're right. If you're gonna call that
[1:31:57] Speaker 3: soft serve, then words lose meaning.
[1:32:00] Speaker 2: That's, thank you, it's a semantics issue.
[1:32:01] Speaker 3: It's a semantics issue.
[1:32:02] Speaker 2: And it's like, And I don't have a problem with
[1:32:05] Speaker 2: the Beyond Burger. I like Beyond Burger. Because also Beyond
[1:32:08] Speaker 2: Burger feels like any sort of fake plant feels like
[1:32:11] Speaker 2: an attack on vegans.
[1:32:11] Speaker 3: But a burger doesn't imply meat necessarily.
[1:32:13] Speaker 4: A burger is a patty between buns.
[1:32:15] Speaker 2: Dessert implies delicious. And I'll tell you what's not delicious.
[1:32:18] Speaker 2: Chobani mixed with Jell-O pudding. That's a big... My algorithms are.
[1:32:22] Speaker 3: A total nightmare.
[1:32:24] Speaker 2: They're all mixing Chobani pudding with sugar-free Jell-O mix. Sugar-free
[1:32:29] Speaker 2: Jell-O pudding mix. And then putting in rainbow sprinkles and
[1:32:31] Speaker 2: being like, You made ice cream and you can eat
[1:32:33] Speaker 2: the whole tub and it's only 500 calories.
[1:32:34] Speaker 4: Why would I?
[1:32:35] Speaker 3: It's a nightmare. Why would you? And explain the potato
[1:32:38] Speaker 3: and Teresa's pieces.
[1:32:40] Speaker 2: Uh, Reese's peanut butter cups.
[1:32:41] Speaker 3: Oh, sorry. Sorry.
[1:32:42] Speaker 2: Not the pieces, although I'm sure there's a recipe. They
[1:32:45] Speaker 2: bake the sweet potato. They mash it down in a, uh,
[1:32:49] Speaker 2: like a loaf pan.
[1:32:50] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:32:50] Speaker 2: And then they drizzle some special chocolate and no peanut
[1:32:53] Speaker 2: butter first, which is probably like a bad peanut butter
[1:32:55] Speaker 2: and then chocolate. And then they cut it into circles.
[1:32:58] Speaker 2: And they're like, it's Reese's peanut butter.
[1:32:59] Speaker 4: Why is it circles?
[1:32:59] Speaker 1: It's not that. Why is it circles?
[1:33:01] Speaker 3: It's sweet potato.
[1:33:02] Speaker 4: Just eat it.
[1:33:03] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:33:03] Speaker 4: Why is that to be circles?
[1:33:04] Speaker 2: I just feel like it's way more offensive than fake entrees.
[1:33:09] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:33:09] Speaker 1: I agree.
[1:33:10] Speaker 3: And it seems like a different thing, too, than, like,
[1:33:12] Speaker 3: is it cake of it? Yeah. That seems like a
[1:33:15] Speaker 3: different thing, too, where it's also meant to deceive.
[1:33:17] Speaker 2: And it's all going back to, like, the protein craze,
[1:33:19] Speaker 2: which I find a little bit nauseating at this point.
[1:33:22] Speaker 2: It's like, we don't need... to make every meal that
[1:33:25] Speaker 2: we have have 50 grams of protein in it.
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: Right. Well, it's also, it's only to sell it because
[1:33:31] Speaker 1: people are still, people haven't questioned why. You know what
[1:33:34] Speaker 1: I mean? It's just like, oh, it's high in protein.
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: I'm told to do this.
[1:33:36] Speaker 2: Well, have you seen, I'm sorry to linger. It's Instagram influencing,
[1:33:40] Speaker 2: food influencing. But have you seen the tables are already turning?
[1:33:43] Speaker 2: now all the fiber girlies are like, now's my time
[1:33:45] Speaker 2: to shine. Fiber girls are coming for the protein girls.
[1:33:47] Speaker 2: Because they're like, this protein needs a compliment, and that's beans.
[1:33:50] Speaker 4: The fiber girls are coming for the protein girls.
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: I actually wonder, I wonder culturally how we're doing in
[1:33:54] Speaker 1: terms of fiber.
[1:33:55] Speaker 3: Not well.
[1:33:56] Speaker 1: I don't think so. We're eating too much protein.
[1:33:57] Speaker 2: I'm doing great.
[1:33:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, you are. That's so great.
[1:34:00] Speaker 2: I've been so ahead of the fiber curve. I know.
[1:34:01] Speaker 1: I never stop.
[1:34:01] Speaker 4: I know.
[1:34:02] Speaker 2: It's true.
[1:34:02] Speaker 3: It's a bean house. It's a bean house. I wish
[1:34:05] Speaker 3: I had eaten those.
[1:34:06] Speaker 1: We had a dinner last night and there was tons
[1:34:08] Speaker 1: of beans.
[1:34:08] Speaker 3: A lot of beans. They're beans.
[1:34:10] Speaker 1: I don't want to eat that. I'm only eating the fish.
[1:34:12] Speaker 1: And then now where am I at? I'm at a
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: loss fiber-wise. You're at a loss.
[1:34:16] Speaker 4: You're at a deficit fiber-wise.
[1:34:17] Speaker 1: I'm at a fiber deficit. You know what one time
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: I bought off Shark Tank? Fried chicken ice cream.
[1:34:23] Speaker 3: And how was it?
[1:34:25] Speaker 1: It was maple-flavored vanilla ice cream.
[1:34:28] Speaker 2: Sure.
[1:34:30] Speaker 1: With, in the shape of a chicken. And it was like,
[1:34:36] Speaker 1: it was.
[1:34:37] Speaker 4: Like, red crumbs and crunchies on it.
[1:34:40] Speaker 1: You know what, it was fine, but it existed for
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: the conceit, not because it was very good. It was like,
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: someone was like, oh, it might be a fun idea
[1:34:53] Speaker 1: to have ice cream look like chicken, like speaking to the,
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: is it cake of it all?
[1:34:59] Speaker 4: We used to invent scrubs.
[1:35:00] Speaker 3: I know.
[1:35:00] Speaker 4: Amazing sponges.
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm being a scrub daddy.
[1:35:03] Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes.
[1:35:03] Speaker 4: We used to innovate sponges. Now we're not doing that anymore,
[1:35:08] Speaker 4: it doesn't seem.
[1:35:09] Speaker 1: I think Bethany broke it.
[1:35:10] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:35:11] Speaker 4: You could say that about a few other things too.
[1:35:14] Speaker 3: And I do. Burning Man.
[1:35:15] Speaker 4: Burning Man.
[1:35:16] Speaker 3: Burning Man.
[1:35:16] Speaker 1: She broke crabs as a crab lover. Dating tuna. Yeah, totally.
[1:35:20] Speaker 4: Chicken salad.
[1:35:21] Speaker 1: I mean, you can't go to a seafood restaurant anymore
[1:35:23] Speaker 1: after she ate, she bit through the crab claws.
[1:35:29] Speaker 3: We had an awkward encounter with her on the way
[1:35:32] Speaker 3: to camp.
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: It was not fun.
[1:35:34] Speaker 4: On the way in here.
[1:35:35] Speaker 3: No, on the way to, we each got, we got
[1:35:37] Speaker 3: separately flown out to Cannes for this, like, you know, advertisers.
[1:35:40] Speaker 1: For Cannes Lions.
[1:35:41] Speaker 3: For Cannes Lions. And we were kind of corralled into
[1:35:44] Speaker 3: the same, like, waiting area to wait for our backs
[1:35:46] Speaker 3: to come out.
[1:35:46] Speaker 4: Did she confront?
[1:35:48] Speaker 3: She did not confront, but she could tell that we
[1:35:49] Speaker 3: were not fans.
[1:35:50] Speaker 1: No, she knew him because he's a them.
[1:35:53] Speaker 4: Yeah, she knew we were.
[1:35:54] Speaker 1: And then he goes, Matt's here too. And she looks
[1:35:57] Speaker 1: at me, half smiles and goes, I kid you not,
[1:35:59] Speaker 1: she goes, oh, that's you.
[1:36:01] Speaker 3: Oh.
[1:36:02] Speaker 2: That's kind of iconic, though.
[1:36:03] Speaker 1: I love that.
[1:36:04] Speaker 2: That's a good one.
[1:36:04] Speaker 1: I love that. I was just like, yep. And then
[1:36:06] Speaker 1: we had like small talk about, it was of course,
[1:36:09] Speaker 1: she went on about some grievance about flying in airports.
[1:36:11] Speaker 1: And we were like, totally.
[1:36:13] Speaker 4: Listen, if that wasn't the case with some people, then
[1:36:16] Speaker 4: you really would be too far gone with this podcast.
[1:36:18] Speaker 4: Because you're still expressing your.
[1:36:20] Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. Here's what I respect about her.
[1:36:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:36:24] Speaker 1: Same thing I hope to say about myself one day.
[1:36:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: She never fucking changed.
[1:36:29] Speaker 3: For anyone she.
[1:36:30] Speaker 1: Was maybe she got more extreme but she Bethany is
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: Bethany and is gonna Bethany and will always be Bethany
[1:36:40] Speaker 1: and she was Bethany in that.
[1:36:42] Speaker 3: Moment she was so Bethany and also.
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: It actually we never really talked about this But I
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: actually kind of enjoyed that because it reminded me of
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: when I really loved Bethany.
[1:36:53] Speaker 4: She knew what you wanted, kind of.
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: Well, she was doing it. Whenever someone is in front
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: of you and they're doing it, it's like the Sandra
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: Bullock of it all. Bethany was talking about like, yeah, well,
[1:37:01] Speaker 1: you know, the reason why these rooms are a little
[1:37:03] Speaker 1: smaller is because, well, you've heard about this. And, you know,
[1:37:06] Speaker 1: I really didn't enjoy that. And she kind of was
[1:37:07] Speaker 1: going through the whole looking at me and going, oh,
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: that's you. She was doing it.
[1:37:12] Speaker 4: And not to, not to be like, I would be
[1:37:14] Speaker 4: so overwhelmed.
[1:37:14] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:37:15] Speaker 1: That happened to me.
[1:37:15] Speaker 3: And it gave me a model, which is what like
[1:37:17] Speaker 3: in its best moments, housewives gives us, it's like a
[1:37:20] Speaker 3: model for like conflict and resolution where if I were now,
[1:37:23] Speaker 3: I kind of know I would try to be inspired
[1:37:25] Speaker 3: by that behavior. If I were to run into someone
[1:37:27] Speaker 3: who like I, and this has happened a few times
[1:37:28] Speaker 3: where like, I know someone's talked shit about me and
[1:37:30] Speaker 3: I'll be like, Oh, Hey, that's you. That's a great
[1:37:33] Speaker 3: way to diffuse it. Like Bethany taught us something in
[1:37:35] Speaker 3: that moment.
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: There's always been, always been i mean even predating hollywood
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: in industry they're like in throughout civilizations there has been
[1:37:45] Speaker 1: gossip and like didn't did you define gossip.
[1:37:48] Speaker 4: In this book i think so didn't we i think
[1:37:52] Speaker 4: we define it and we define but you just you
[1:37:54] Speaker 4: quote capote which is all gossip is yes that's what
[1:37:56] Speaker 4: it was what is it literature.
[1:37:58] Speaker 1: Gossip is literature yeah i love yes and i it's
[1:38:00] Speaker 1: it sort of made me rethink him in a way, too.
[1:38:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, storytelling.
[1:38:05] Speaker 1: Because it's like, what exactly did these women think?
[1:38:08] Speaker 4: He's like listening for the story. Right. He would have
[1:38:10] Speaker 4: told that to the group chat. That would have been
[1:38:12] Speaker 4: an incredible voice note. But he's Truman Capote, so he
[1:38:15] Speaker 4: exactly knows.
[1:38:15] Speaker 3: But these women see him as something serviceable and useful.
[1:38:19] Speaker 3: Someone who is useful to them.
[1:38:20] Speaker 4: So they were telling somebody who they knew could tell
[1:38:22] Speaker 4: the story in an interesting way. which is what profiles
[1:38:25] Speaker 4: should be and why your podcast is great.
[1:38:27] Speaker 3: Like all that.
[1:38:28] Speaker 1: It's sort of the, you can see everything of it all.
[1:38:30] Speaker 1: It's like, I'm inviting you.
[1:38:32] Speaker 4: I'm still, I'm still processing.
[1:38:34] Speaker 3: We just talked about what you experienced.
[1:38:37] Speaker 4: But yes, you're right. That's totally it.
[1:38:39] Speaker 1: Are you ready for your, I don't think so. Okay.
[1:38:41] Speaker 4: I want to be clear. I thought of this before
[1:38:42] Speaker 4: our conversation, but I'm so happy. It's relevant.
[1:38:44] Speaker 1: Okay. Amazing. This is Lindsay Webber's. I don't think so. Honey,
[1:38:47] Speaker 1: your time starts.
[1:38:47] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:38:48] Speaker 4: I don't think so. Honey, pivot to video.
[1:38:52] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:38:54] Speaker 4: Gorgeous set.
[1:38:55] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:38:55] Speaker 4: Everyone looks fabulous. You are camera ready. Don't, don't mistake me, whatever,
[1:39:00] Speaker 4: but gone are the days where we could just speak
[1:39:04] Speaker 4: so directly into our microphone and, directly to the parasocial
[1:39:08] Speaker 4: nature of our audiences. We could be in pajamas. We
[1:39:12] Speaker 4: could do things at our leisure. I'm really just like
[1:39:13] Speaker 4: speaking to you guys at our leisure. You know, I
[1:39:17] Speaker 4: just feel like it's hearkening back to radio. Now we've
[1:39:19] Speaker 4: taken it to TV. Why do we need more TV?
[1:39:21] Speaker 4: We don't need more TV. We need more radio. And
[1:39:25] Speaker 4: in this way, I feel like we also could use
[1:39:26] Speaker 4: more podcasts, but now I'm like, only podcasts that are
[1:39:31] Speaker 4: audio only. The celebrities are kicking over, they love TV,
[1:39:34] Speaker 4: they love to be on camera, but us, we don't,
[1:39:36] Speaker 4: and that's how we're different. And that is literally all
[1:39:40] Speaker 4: I have to say about that.
[1:39:41] Speaker 1: And that's one minute. Honestly, Thank you. It's so funny
[1:39:46] Speaker 1: because I think it speaks to this idea that the
[1:39:48] Speaker 1: celebrity podcast is so cyclical because they realize they don't
[1:39:52] Speaker 1: want to do it. They just wanted to make easy
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: money in their purview and be on camera.
[1:39:58] Speaker 4: But that's why I love our 10 year... We know
[1:40:01] Speaker 4: what it takes and we're listening and we're editing and
[1:40:04] Speaker 4: we're thinking and we're adjusting and they can't do that.
[1:40:09] Speaker 4: They can't take that from us.
[1:40:10] Speaker 3: I know and part of me wants to just... like
[1:40:14] Speaker 3: do it like the I mean you guys are doing
[1:40:16] Speaker 3: it like the Marin way he's like don't ever bring
[1:40:18] Speaker 3: a camera a video camera into my fucking garage like he.
[1:40:22] Speaker 1: Fully it's interesting that he fully stopped he just stopped
[1:40:25] Speaker 1: he saw it turn and also he was he became
[1:40:28] Speaker 1: another he was so early he.
[1:40:29] Speaker 3: Was so early I was lucky enough to like be
[1:40:32] Speaker 3: like one of his last episodes and it was just
[1:40:35] Speaker 3: I just went over to his hotel and then we
[1:40:36] Speaker 3: just a dark unlit hotel room and it was kind
[1:40:40] Speaker 3: of like I was it was a little bit entrancing
[1:40:42] Speaker 3: I was like oh I'm I'm not used to this anymore.
[1:40:45] Speaker 1: Right. A podcast. Like it's so, so, cause, and now
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: it just feels kind of stupid to see the mics
[1:40:53] Speaker 1: in front of us. You know what I mean? It's like, no,
[1:40:56] Speaker 1: it feels great.
[1:40:57] Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
[1:40:58] Speaker 4: Everyone did a great job.
[1:40:59] Speaker 1: <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL> <HAL>
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: They don't care.
[1:41:10] Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
[1:41:11] Speaker 2: Are people even watching them? Or are they just listening
[1:41:15] Speaker 2: to them?
[1:41:15] Speaker 3: So get this.
[1:41:16] Speaker 1: They are.
[1:41:18] Speaker 2: Oh, we got the stats here.
[1:41:19] Speaker 1: They are.
[1:41:20] Speaker 4: They are. But it's funny.
[1:41:22] Speaker 1: Because now you start to see the conversation take hold online,
[1:41:24] Speaker 1: which is like, what is happening when this part of
[1:41:28] Speaker 1: the podcast went down? And it's like, oh, right, because
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: we were a visual, we forgot about the audio. And
[1:41:34] Speaker 1: we used to joke, podcasts are a visual medium. That
[1:41:36] Speaker 1: was like a bit that we did for years. And
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: now it's like video killed the radio star again.
[1:41:42] Speaker 3: Again. Again.
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: Again.
[1:41:43] Speaker 4: See, this is a trap. This is a trap. And
[1:41:45] Speaker 4: I hope, and I'm not even saying, like, I want
[1:41:48] Speaker 4: this to happen, but if it eventually does, as we
[1:41:50] Speaker 4: know it's cyclical, when the cameras turn off, that you
[1:41:54] Speaker 4: two go right back to audio only.
[1:41:57] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: We'll be fine.
[1:41:58] Speaker 3: Absolutely.
[1:41:59] Speaker 1: We're going to survive. Because we'll still be here.
[1:42:00] Speaker 3: We'll be here. So we'll wait.
[1:42:02] Speaker 4: Waiting for you.
[1:42:03] Speaker 3: Oh, my God. We'll be there.
[1:42:05] Speaker 1: We we've been talking about it a lot and I
[1:42:06] Speaker 1: feel like it's kind of high time that we sort
[1:42:09] Speaker 1: of acknowledge the fact that it's all changed.
[1:42:12] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:42:12] Speaker 1: Because it does feel like this weird elephant in the room.
[1:42:15] Speaker 1: And so that's another reason why it's been so nice
[1:42:17] Speaker 1: to talk to you guys specifically about all this stuff
[1:42:19] Speaker 1: is because it will be weird to not, we talk
[1:42:24] Speaker 1: about like pop culture in our industry and we, we
[1:42:27] Speaker 1: have all been doing it for a long time now
[1:42:30] Speaker 1: over a decade. So, To be able to talk about
[1:42:32] Speaker 1: it with people that get it and that have lived
[1:42:35] Speaker 1: it and are living it and seeing it happen is
[1:42:37] Speaker 1: like really nice and refreshing and makes me feel less
[1:42:41] Speaker 1: self-conscious about it.
[1:42:42] Speaker 4: I think you go where your show takes you. You
[1:42:45] Speaker 4: know what I mean? And we wouldn't be able to
[1:42:47] Speaker 4: do the show the way that we want to do
[1:42:48] Speaker 4: our show because we edit it and it's so topical
[1:42:51] Speaker 4: and we don't have guests. It's just us or whatever.
[1:42:54] Speaker 4: We wouldn't be able to do it unless we were
[1:42:56] Speaker 4: taping it at 9 a.m. on Mondays and Thursdays in
[1:42:59] Speaker 4: our underwear with cans on at our own houses. We
[1:43:02] Speaker 4: just wouldn't be able to do it, and that's the
[1:43:04] Speaker 4: nature of why it's audio only.
[1:43:06] Speaker 1: You've got to get the book.
[1:43:07] Speaker 3: You've got to get the book.
[1:43:08] Speaker 1: No, but for real, it's I Want to Be Famous
[1:43:11] Speaker 1: When Everybody and Nobody is a Celebrity by these two,
[1:43:13] Speaker 1: and be listening to the podcast. And as Lena Dunham
[1:43:17] Speaker 1: says on the book jacket, come for the laughs and
[1:43:19] Speaker 1: incredible cultural deep cuts. Stay for the X-edges.
[1:43:23] Speaker 4: Exegesis yep and that's why she's.
[1:43:26] Speaker 2: Exegesis that's why she's Lena that's why.
[1:43:28] Speaker 1: She's Lena on how we wound up dot dot dot
[1:43:30] Speaker 1: here before we go thoughts on the girls revival we
[1:43:36] Speaker 1: talked on our last episode about our last episode about
[1:43:38] Speaker 1: what we want to see hopes and dreams for the
[1:43:40] Speaker 1: five episodes what do you guys want to see from.
[1:43:42] Speaker 4: The five episodes I'm nervous but we loved In Just
[1:43:45] Speaker 4: Like That yeah we loved it copy so if it's
[1:43:48] Speaker 4: anything in that realm sure I'm happy to see.
[1:43:51] Speaker 3: It yeah just to say it can do anything It
[1:43:53] Speaker 3: can do anything. And you will be happy.
[1:43:54] Speaker 4: It can be anything. Also, five episodes?
[1:43:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I wanted. I wanted something limited. And
[1:43:59] Speaker 2: I want something that visually looks like it.
[1:44:01] Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely.
[1:44:01] Speaker 2: Because I think one of the jarring things about In
[1:44:03] Speaker 2: Just Like That is it doesn't look like sex.
[1:44:04] Speaker 1: I know, it's jarring.
[1:44:05] Speaker 3: Aesthetically.
[1:44:06] Speaker 2: And if it looks like girls, like we're just back
[1:44:08] Speaker 2: to the same old look and vibe.
[1:44:10] Speaker 3: Same color grade, same cameras.
[1:44:11] Speaker 2: I'll be really happy.
[1:44:12] Speaker 4: Also, as long as all the girls are there.
[1:44:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're going to be there.
[1:44:14] Speaker 4: If the girls all agree, then we will be there.
[1:44:16] Speaker 1: I think we're getting the girls and Andrew.
[1:44:18] Speaker 3: Rita Wilson.
[1:44:19] Speaker 1: Rita Wilson.
[1:44:20] Speaker 3: Rita Wilson says. Rita Wilson.
[1:44:21] Speaker 2: Yep.
[1:44:21] Speaker 1: Which I think says great things about Marnie. The fact
[1:44:24] Speaker 1: that Rita Wilson is in it means that she's still
[1:44:26] Speaker 1: in a weird codependent relationship with her mother, who was
[1:44:30] Speaker 1: one of the most underrated characters on that show.
[1:44:33] Speaker 4: Yes, and why Lena and Rita Wilson are such close friends,
[1:44:39] Speaker 4: which I'm obsessed with.
[1:44:40] Speaker 1: I love it. I hope they're at the Chelsea Cafe
[1:44:43] Speaker 1: right now.
[1:44:44] Speaker 3: I believe it.
[1:44:45] Speaker 4: Brainstorming. Yeah, we'll take more girls.
[1:44:48] Speaker 2: You know Rita has ideas. Come on. Oh, yeah. Unwanted ideas,
[1:44:51] Speaker 2: wanted ideas.
[1:44:52] Speaker 3: Talk about a triple threat.
[1:44:53] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[1:44:53] Speaker 3: Love her. She's our queen. Have her on the pod.
[1:44:57] Speaker 1: Honestly, at this point, yeah.
[1:44:59] Speaker 4: Have her on the pod.
[1:44:59] Speaker 3: Camera's off.
[1:45:00] Speaker 2: Accosted her in public once and she was just like
[1:45:02] Speaker 2: totally fine with it. I was like, I'm sorry. Can
[1:45:05] Speaker 2: I say hi? And she was like, yes. I love
[1:45:07] Speaker 2: her so much.
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: Because one thing about her is she's the mother of
[1:45:11] Speaker 1: Chet Hayes.
[1:45:12] Speaker 4: One thing about her.
[1:45:13] Speaker 1: But isn't it Chet Hayes?
[1:45:14] Speaker 3: Oh, Chet Hayes. It is Chet Hayes.
[1:45:15] Speaker 1: Chet Hayes, Chet Hanks.
[1:45:17] Speaker 4: And that's his stage name.
[1:45:17] Speaker 1: He might get mad at.
[1:45:18] Speaker 3: Hayes these days.
[1:45:19] Speaker 2: I think he doesn't like being reminded of the Hays.
[1:45:21] Speaker 3: Okay. He's Hanks now.
[1:45:23] Speaker 1: Oh, because he's sober now?
[1:45:25] Speaker 2: Well, it's not necessarily a sobriety thing. It's like that's
[1:45:27] Speaker 2: an identity that he's trying to distance himself from.
[1:45:29] Speaker 3: Oh, sure, sure, sure.
[1:45:30] Speaker 1: And we should respect that.
[1:45:31] Speaker 3: He's like a pro.
[1:45:31] Speaker 4: Respect him.
[1:45:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:45:32] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:45:33] Speaker 1: Everyone out there, let that be the last thing you hear.
[1:45:36] Speaker 1: Respect Chad. It's actually a rule of culture. Number 49.
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: Don't do it. Respect Chad.
[1:45:41] Speaker 3: I think he's worthy of respect and dignity.
[1:45:45] Speaker 1: My favorite episode of Z-Way ever.
[1:45:47] Speaker 3: Oh, for sure.
[1:45:47] Speaker 4: See, and he did, like, that show, he put himself
[1:45:50] Speaker 4: in the line of fire, and he said, I get this.
[1:45:52] Speaker 4: I get what's going on here.
[1:45:53] Speaker 3: I'll do it.
[1:45:53] Speaker 1: I will say this. I don't watch and consume all
[1:45:57] Speaker 1: of our peers' stuff. I watch him. Every episode of Z-Way.
[1:46:01] Speaker 1: I love her.
[1:46:02] Speaker 3: Well, as one of the original torturees.
[1:46:04] Speaker 1: I was one of the first torturees.
[1:46:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, and that.
[1:46:07] Speaker 3: Brave.
[1:46:08] Speaker 4: You had no idea what you were in for.
[1:46:09] Speaker 1: Never could have known.
[1:46:10] Speaker 4: Those are the funniest episodes.
[1:46:11] Speaker 1: I would be a part of culture.
[1:46:12] Speaker 4: Those are the funniest episodes.
[1:46:13] Speaker 3: And you spelled Colin Kaepernick's name perfectly.
[1:46:16] Speaker 1: K-A-E-P-E-R-N-I-C-K.
[1:46:18] Speaker 2: There you go.
[1:46:21] Speaker 1: We end every episode with a song. I will never
[1:46:26] Speaker 1: let you down. I will never let you down. And
[1:46:31] Speaker 1: thank you also for shouting out this one. I'm grateful.
[1:46:36] Speaker 1: Stream Rita.
[1:46:37] Speaker 3: Bye.
[1:46:37] Speaker 2: Bye.
[1:46:55] Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's me, Matt, and my tour is on
[1:46:58] Speaker 1: sale now. This time, it's really Christmas. You can go
[1:47:01] Speaker 1: to www.mattrogersofficial.com. Podcasts are a visual medium. If you're not
[1:47:06] Speaker 1: watching me right now, I am holding in my hands
[1:47:09] Speaker 1: my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The
[1:47:11] Speaker 1: answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's
[1:47:15] Speaker 1: really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country and in
[1:47:18] Speaker 1: London and in Canada. That makes it a world tour.
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: Harry Styles, you're on burn notice. I'll see you soon.

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