# When Teaching Kids “Doesn’t Work”… Until It Does

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 29 Jan 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/d5b88dda-501c-4743-84ac-b3d200b93656/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

Some lessons don’t land the first time. Or the tenth. But then—something shifts. In this episode, Justin shares a surprising win from “explicit teaching” with his kids, and Kylie opens up about kinesiology, therapy, and why the evidence doesn’t always tell the whole story. This one hits deep for any parent who’s trying to raise values-led kids while staying connected through the teenage years. KEY POINTS • Why teens need us in the details of their lives — even when they push back • The power of a safe third party in tough conversations (psychology vs. kinesiology) • How “explicit teaching” actually works in real families (the media/music example) • When values stick — and why discussion beats lecturing every time • The shift from compliance → identification → integration when kids choose their values QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “We don’t tell them what they have to do — we share principles, ask what they think, and keep the conversation going.” RESOURCES MENTIONED • Misconnection: Why Your Teenage Daughter Hates You, Expects the World, and Needs to Talk (Justin Coulson PhD) ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Create safe third-party spaces. This could be a psychologist, mentor, aunt, uncle, or trusted adult — not always paid. • Use explicit teaching sparingly — but consistently. Small conversations over time beat one big lecture. • Ask values-based questions. Try: “What do you think this message does to you?” • Let them wrestle. Real learning happens in the tension — not in compliance. • Keep reflecting, don’t direct. Facilitate decisions instead of making them for your kids. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: Hello, It's the Happy Families Podcast Friday edition if you're
[0:09] Speaker 1: new to the pot. Every Friday, we talk about the
[0:11] Speaker 1: things that have worked or haven't worked in our families
[0:13] Speaker 1: that we can do better tomorrow and maybe help you
[0:16] Speaker 1: to do better tomorrow. I had the most amazing conversation
[0:19] Speaker 1: with the kids on Sunday. We engage in explicit teaching
[0:22] Speaker 1: of values and principles that we want our kids to understand.
[0:25] Speaker 1: On Sunday, I just had the coolest experience with the kids.
[0:28] Speaker 1: Can't wait to tell you about what that was, why
[0:31] Speaker 1: it worked, and what they thought. Plus, Kylie is just
[0:37] Speaker 1: right into this kinesiology stuff. The research evidence suggests that
[0:42] Speaker 1: it doesn't actually work, and yet we keep paying for
[0:46] Speaker 1: it because we're finding that it works incredibly for our
[0:50] Speaker 1: kids in our family. Why when the evidence says it doesn't,
[0:55] Speaker 1: would we say it does? Today? We answer those questions
[0:59] Speaker 1: and more. It's I'll do better tomorrow right after this,
[1:02] Speaker 1: stay with us. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast.
[1:07] Speaker 1: We get real parenting solutions every single day. This is
[1:10] Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast okay, around the country for
[1:14] Speaker 1: most areas, not all, but most states and territories. School
[1:19] Speaker 1: has gone back. Hopefully you've survived the week. We'd love
[1:22] Speaker 1: to tell you about our kids and their school experience,
[1:24] Speaker 1: but we've got a daughter in year eleven who said
[1:27] Speaker 1: it was fine, and we're home schooling our youngest, so
[1:29] Speaker 1: we've really got nothing to tell you about school this week.
[1:31] Speaker 1: But we've got a whole lot of other stuff for you. Gee,
[1:33] Speaker 1: I hope it's been good for you, Kylie. You're up
[1:35] Speaker 1: first today, kinesiology. I've been opened up front about the
[1:40] Speaker 1: fact that we spend a lot of money on a
[1:41] Speaker 1: kinesiologist every so often, and I don't believe in it,
[1:45] Speaker 1: but you keep on going.
[1:46] Speaker 2: And you've also asked me that maybe we might stretch
[1:49] Speaker 2: the visits out a bit more.
[1:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's not go so often anyway. You've been to
[1:53] Speaker 1: the kinesiologists with a couple of the kids just recently,
[1:56] Speaker 1: and your I'll do better tomorrow explains exactly why I'm
[1:59] Speaker 1: happy to keep on paying for something that doesn't work
[2:02] Speaker 1: according to the evidence. Terrible, I know, because it actually
[2:06] Speaker 1: does work for our family.
[2:10] Speaker 2: It's interesting. I was talking with a friend recently. Her
[2:12] Speaker 2: background psychology as well, and she's a practicing psychologist, and
[2:18] Speaker 2: I was telling her about the experiences that I'm having
[2:20] Speaker 2: with a kinesiologist and my children, and she just she
[2:23] Speaker 2: looked me in the eye and she said, Kylie, she said,
[2:26] Speaker 2: this is gold. She said, in in traditional psychology based,
[2:32] Speaker 2: you know, talk therapy, you will take your child along
[2:36] Speaker 2: to a session, and more times than not, they walk
[2:38] Speaker 2: in the door and they close the door behind them,
[2:41] Speaker 2: and you're left in the waiting room.
[2:42] Speaker 1: Because the client therapist's relationship is sacrosanct and what happens
[2:47] Speaker 1: in there is privileged and nobody knows and it's all confidential.
[2:49] Speaker 1: That's right.
[2:50] Speaker 2: And as a parent, I then wait to hear the
[2:54] Speaker 2: debrief from my struggling fourteen year old or a eighteen
[2:58] Speaker 2: year old or whatever it is that time, and depending
[3:01] Speaker 2: on how they feel about the session, depends on how
[3:04] Speaker 2: much or how little information I'll receive. But I'm never
[3:07] Speaker 2: going to get the full picture, right, I'm never going
[3:09] Speaker 2: to get the nuance through the conversation and how the
[3:13] Speaker 2: psychologist said what she said and what that actually means.
[3:18] Speaker 2: What I love about the kinesiologists that we've found is
[3:21] Speaker 2: that this has been a space from day one where
[3:25] Speaker 2: I've been encouraged to be a part of it and
[3:27] Speaker 2: In the early days, it was so new to the
[3:29] Speaker 2: kids and they actually struggled to kind of understand what
[3:32] Speaker 2: was going on. So it was really important for me
[3:33] Speaker 2: to be there so that I could talk them through
[3:35] Speaker 2: it and help them understand. But as they've gotten older
[3:38] Speaker 2: and they've become very comfortable in that space, the very
[3:42] Speaker 2: first thing I say whenever we reach the appointment is
[3:46] Speaker 2: are you happy for me to come in? Would you
[3:48] Speaker 2: like me to stay outside? I'm really happy to go
[3:50] Speaker 2: to the shops. I can go catch up with a friend.
[3:52] Speaker 2: And every time, without fail, they're like, no, Mam, I
[3:54] Speaker 2: want you now. I've got a daughter who can drive
[3:56] Speaker 2: herself there. Now I don't even have to take her,
[3:59] Speaker 2: but she wants me there. And as I was talking
[4:02] Speaker 2: with this friend, she just said, she said, this is gold,
[4:05] Speaker 2: she said, because what it actually shows is that your
[4:09] Speaker 2: children desperately want you to be a part of their lives. Right.
[4:13] Speaker 2: They actually want to be able to have these conversations.
[4:15] Speaker 2: But some of them are tricky, and they're worried about
[4:18] Speaker 2: our feelings. They're worried about how we're going to cope
[4:21] Speaker 2: with the weight of their problems, or if it's actually
[4:24] Speaker 2: targeted at us, how they can share it with us
[4:26] Speaker 2: in a way that doesn't leave the relationship damaged.
[4:29] Speaker 1: So there's like this third party. They get to talk
[4:32] Speaker 1: to the third party about what's going on. You're allowed
[4:34] Speaker 1: to be a bystander and.
[4:35] Speaker 2: Kind of like a fly on the wall that they
[4:36] Speaker 2: knows they're right, Yeah, but you're not a pestering, annoying
[4:40] Speaker 2: fly on the wall.
[4:42] Speaker 1: Wrong analogy like you're the pop plant that makes the
[4:44] Speaker 1: room beautiful, right, but you're seeing and the pop plant
[4:48] Speaker 1: sits there in the corner and doesn't say anything, but
[4:50] Speaker 1: it adds to the feeling the environment. It makes the
[4:54] Speaker 1: room work better.
[4:55] Speaker 2: Well, here's the crazy thing. I actually do get to
[4:57] Speaker 2: say something and I get to share my perspective, and
[5:01] Speaker 2: that comes from both sides my kinesiologists. She might actually
[5:06] Speaker 2: ask if I've got anything else to add, but often
[5:09] Speaker 2: the kids will answer her questions and then they'll look
[5:11] Speaker 2: at me and they go, Mum, is there anything else
[5:13] Speaker 2: you'd add? They actually, again they're wanting and seeing that
[5:17] Speaker 2: I have perspective that actually adds to the picture, it
[5:20] Speaker 2: doesn't detract from it.
[5:22] Speaker 1: So my general position on this is the research evidence
[5:26] Speaker 1: shows that there's no there's no effects that we find
[5:32] Speaker 1: from kinesiology in terms of benefit, health benefit, medical benefit, whatever.
[5:38] Speaker 1: But what you're describing is why we keep paying and
[5:41] Speaker 1: why the kids keep going, because in psychology terms, we
[5:46] Speaker 1: look at what we call the therapeutic alliance. In other words,
[5:49] Speaker 1: we're talking about how well a client gets on with
[5:53] Speaker 1: the therapist because we get the best results in therapeutic
[5:57] Speaker 1: context when there's a high level of trust between them
[6:00] Speaker 1: and they can talk openly and when the client is
[6:02] Speaker 1: open to what the therapist has to say. And what
[6:05] Speaker 1: you're really describing here as a counseling situation where they're
[6:08] Speaker 1: doing a little bit of woo woo kinesiology stuff, But
[6:12] Speaker 1: it's the counseling situation. It's the conversations, it's the openness,
[6:16] Speaker 1: the vulnerability. What that context is opening up is really
[6:22] Speaker 1: really deep. It's eye opening, it's jaw dropping. And when
[6:27] Speaker 1: teenagers say, Mum, I'd like you to stay in here
[6:31] Speaker 1: while I have this experience, this moment of vulnerability where
[6:35] Speaker 1: I'm disclosing and working through really big challenges, that is,
[6:40] Speaker 1: as our friend said, that is gold. Most parents, you
[6:45] Speaker 1: can't buy that. And having that safe third party who
[6:49] Speaker 1: facilitates this ongoing counseling style dialogue that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily valuable.
[6:59] Speaker 1: I think that's where the value for money actually comes
[7:03] Speaker 1: in this particular context. I'm completely committed to it and
[7:07] Speaker 1: sold on it as much as I bag it out
[7:09] Speaker 1: because we get those results. So let's you take our message.
[7:13] Speaker 2: Your teenage girl's book Misconnection the subtitle why your teenage
[7:18] Speaker 2: daughter Hates You, expects the world and needs to talk.
[7:21] Speaker 2: Just this whole experience for me has just been this
[7:25] Speaker 2: beautiful reminder that our children actually desperately want us in
[7:30] Speaker 2: the details of their lives, even when they're pushing us away, right,
[7:35] Speaker 2: they really want us there. And sometimes it requires a
[7:38] Speaker 2: third party, a trusted space, a safe space where they
[7:42] Speaker 2: feel like they can share and you can carry the
[7:46] Speaker 2: weight or you don't. Actually you don't actually have to
[7:49] Speaker 2: carry the weight of it. There's somebody else to do
[7:51] Speaker 2: that for you.
[7:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would add it doesn't have to be a
[7:55] Speaker 1: paid consultation, whether it could be an artie or a neighbor,
[7:58] Speaker 1: or when the kids have got that third per and
[8:00] Speaker 1: somebody bounced things off idealing with you in the room.
[8:02] Speaker 1: But not necessarily it just somebody else carrying the load.
[8:05] Speaker 1: Somebody else. Facilitating your child's wellbeing creates that community so
[8:10] Speaker 1: so valuable. I thought you were going to say, kinesiology
[8:13] Speaker 1: is awesome. That's a take home message. Well, it is right, it.
[8:18] Speaker 2: Is awesome, and if you gave it a go, you
[8:20] Speaker 2: might actually become a believer.
[8:22] Speaker 1: I gave it a go a few years ago.
[8:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, up next, unbeliever, that's what you are up next.
[8:29] Speaker 1: The conversation that I had with the kids on Sunday
[8:32] Speaker 1: that changed the game and gave me the reminder that
[8:36] Speaker 1: these discussions where we explicitly teach our kids' stuff, they
[8:40] Speaker 1: really do work. Find out more in just to say
[8:43] Speaker 1: stay with us, We're back. This is the Happy Families
[8:53] Speaker 1: podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day, Sunday,
[8:57] Speaker 1: every Sunday. We've talked about this a lot. We have
[8:59] Speaker 1: time with our kids where we call it family home Evening,
[9:03] Speaker 1: although we do it in the mornings now, so it's
[9:05] Speaker 1: not really it's more of a family home morning than
[9:08] Speaker 1: a family home evening. You were away. I decided I
[9:11] Speaker 1: was going to do it anyway. The kids were like,
[9:13] Speaker 1: good do we have to? I'm like, come on, eight thirty,
[9:15] Speaker 1: we're going to everyone's going to come into the living
[9:17] Speaker 1: room we're doing this, and they moped their way in
[9:19] Speaker 1: and they sat there and they sighed and they rolled
[9:22] Speaker 1: their eyes, and I said, guys, every Sunday for January,
[9:25] Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about healthy minds. Every Sunday
[9:29] Speaker 1: in February, we're going to talk about healthy bodies, and
[9:31] Speaker 1: every Sunday in much we're going to talk about healthy spirits.
[9:34] Speaker 1: And the kids were like, oh, it's boring, and I said,
[9:36] Speaker 1: I know, but we do this every Sunday, and you
[9:38] Speaker 1: know it's not a surprise, so let's go. And I
[9:41] Speaker 1: decided that for healthy Minds, I wanted to talk about
[9:44] Speaker 1: media consumption, what is our media diet? And I wanted
[9:48] Speaker 1: to really have their attention. I said, guys, I'm going
[9:50] Speaker 1: to play you some music that I used to listen
[9:52] Speaker 1: to when I was a kid. Now, for copyright reasons,
[9:55] Speaker 1: I can't play it on the podcast right now, but
[9:57] Speaker 1: I played some Henry Rowlands Roland's band. I went to
[10:00] Speaker 1: see them at the Hawden Pavilion in the early nineteen nineties.
[10:03] Speaker 1: It was the first time I ever got into a
[10:04] Speaker 1: mosh pit and crowdsurfed and roll around up on top
[10:07] Speaker 1: of everybody's hands. Roland's band music is pretty angry, heavy drums,
[10:11] Speaker 1: heavy guitars, big bass, and Roland's screams. I mean, he's
[10:17] Speaker 1: not screaming. It's not like that horror Ah kind of stuff,
[10:20] Speaker 1: but he certainly yells a lot when you sound like
[10:23] Speaker 1: you're in trouble. When you're listening to him, he's lecturing
[10:25] Speaker 1: you while he's quite unquote singing. Anyway, I've always loved
[10:29] Speaker 1: Roland's band. I was actually listening to a bit of
[10:31] Speaker 1: it over the last few weeks to work out what
[10:34] Speaker 1: song I should play for the kids. And there's this
[10:36] Speaker 1: one song of his called Low Self Opinion, and the
[10:39] Speaker 1: lyrics say something along the lines of I think you've
[10:41] Speaker 1: got a low self opinion, man, I see standing or
[10:43] Speaker 1: by yourself, unable to express the pain at your distress.
[10:45] Speaker 1: It goes on and he's talking to somebody who does
[10:48] Speaker 1: not feel good about themselves, and he says to them,
[10:50] Speaker 1: if you could see the you that I see when
[10:52] Speaker 1: I see you see me, you'd see yourself so differently.
[10:54] Speaker 1: Believe me, if you could see the you that I
[10:56] Speaker 1: see when I see you, you see yourself so differently.
[10:58] Speaker 1: I assure you. I still remember this from when I
[11:01] Speaker 1: was seventeen, and I said to the kids, these messages
[11:03] Speaker 1: get inside you. But as they were listening to the song,
[11:07] Speaker 1: I said to them, guys, I want you to have
[11:10] Speaker 1: a think about what this music does to you. How
[11:11] Speaker 1: does it make you feel? What sort of reaction do
[11:14] Speaker 1: you get? And they told me, well, it's angry. It
[11:18] Speaker 1: makes me feel a little bit anxious, so it makes
[11:21] Speaker 1: me feel like I'm being yelled at. And they talked
[11:23] Speaker 1: about those feelings and they were really great about that.
[11:26] Speaker 1: And then I read them the lyrics because they weren't
[11:27] Speaker 1: really picking up on the lyrics. They were more absorbed
[11:29] Speaker 1: by oh my goodness, dad, you used to listen to this.
[11:32] Speaker 1: And I said, what do you think about the lyrics?
[11:34] Speaker 1: And they were like, the lyrics kind of don't match
[11:37] Speaker 1: the music because the lyrics are saying something important here
[11:40] Speaker 1: about how we need to we need to see ourselves
[11:43] Speaker 1: as more of than sometimes we do see ourselves. I
[11:45] Speaker 1: was like, this is great. I said, so let's talk
[11:48] Speaker 1: about another song and I won't mention what it was,
[11:50] Speaker 1: but I played a song that has some pretty unhealthy messages,
[11:54] Speaker 1: but the music's really cool. It's a really catchy tune.
[11:57] Speaker 1: And then I played another one similarly, and I said,
[12:00] Speaker 1: so what do you think about these songs? And they're like,
[12:03] Speaker 1: we really like the songs. I'm like, what do you
[12:05] Speaker 1: think about the messages? And we talked about the lyrics.
[12:08] Speaker 1: One of them is all about anxiety and feeding our
[12:10] Speaker 1: anxiety and not in a healthy way, and another one
[12:13] Speaker 1: had some pretty dodgy lyrics as well, and they were
[12:16] Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, this is really this is a
[12:18] Speaker 1: hard conversation for us because we like these songs, but
[12:21] Speaker 1: the messages aren't good. I said, so what happens if
[12:25] Speaker 1: you keep on giving yourself these messages? I mean, I
[12:27] Speaker 1: can remember the music. I'm fifty. I was listening to
[12:30] Speaker 1: this stuff when I was a teenager. I was sixteen
[12:32] Speaker 1: and seventeen, and I can still remember it. And then
[12:35] Speaker 1: I sang, I sang the jingle for aeroplane jelly right.
[12:39] Speaker 1: I'm like, I was listening to that when I was five.
[12:41] Speaker 2: We all know you're a little bit abnormal.
[12:44] Speaker 1: It gets inside you. And then I asked them the
[12:47] Speaker 1: question what matters more the music or the message? And
[12:52] Speaker 1: I just watched them wrestle. They argued with each other,
[12:55] Speaker 1: They went backwards and forwards. We went around the room.
[12:58] Speaker 1: They brought things up, then they disagree. Then they disputed
[13:00] Speaker 1: with themselves rather than arguing with each other, like I
[13:03] Speaker 1: think I've changed my mind. And the conversation I only
[13:06] Speaker 1: went for about twenty or thirty minutes. It was not
[13:07] Speaker 1: a long discussion. But the thing that I really wanted
[13:12] Speaker 1: to emphasize or share in this I'll do better tomorrow,
[13:15] Speaker 1: which has gone too long, is that you came to
[13:17] Speaker 1: me a few days later and said I was in
[13:21] Speaker 1: the car with one of the kids and they mentioned
[13:25] Speaker 1: that on Sunday you went through this discussion with them,
[13:30] Speaker 1: and then they talked you through the discussion, and it
[13:33] Speaker 1: seems like it had some impact.
[13:36] Speaker 2: Interestingly, she had been thinking about some of the music
[13:39] Speaker 2: that she's been listening to and she said, Mum, she said,
[13:42] Speaker 2: I've got this song and she said the music is
[13:47] Speaker 2: so catchy. She said, bad as I've been paying more
[13:50] Speaker 2: attention because Dad was talking to us about you know,
[13:53] Speaker 2: the meaning behind the words. She says, I've realized that
[13:55] Speaker 2: some of the lyrics aren't very good. And I said, ah,
[14:00] Speaker 2: what are you doing a situation like that? And she said, oh,
[14:03] Speaker 2: it's so hard because I just love the song, like
[14:06] Speaker 2: it just like hooks me in and I want to
[14:09] Speaker 2: keep singing it. And I said, yeah, that's really tricky.
[14:13] Speaker 2: I said, what have you decided? And she said, I
[14:15] Speaker 2: just I can't listen to it. And I don't know
[14:18] Speaker 2: if she'll keep that resolve. But I love that she's
[14:22] Speaker 2: having this conversation and the internal dialogue is shifting as
[14:26] Speaker 2: she's starting to recognize the power of not only the
[14:30] Speaker 2: music but the words.
[14:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, And the critical thing here is that we're not
[14:34] Speaker 1: telling them what they have to do, because if we
[14:36] Speaker 1: tell them what they have to do, we will lose them. Instead,
[14:39] Speaker 1: we're sharing a principle. We're asking them what they think,
[14:42] Speaker 1: and then we're provoking them a little bit and letting
[14:44] Speaker 1: them think about it ongoingly and continuing the conversations. And
[14:48] Speaker 1: that's where you get that identification with the values, rather
[14:51] Speaker 1: than I'm doing it because I have to. That's where
[14:53] Speaker 1: you get the integration of the values. That's where you
[14:56] Speaker 1: make those values intrinsic, and that's really at the heart
[15:00] Speaker 1: of everything that we talk about in my books and
[15:01] Speaker 1: on this podcast. And I just I wanted to share
[15:04] Speaker 1: it because it highlights how it works when you create
[15:07] Speaker 1: discussion rather than when you lecture, but when you also
[15:10] Speaker 1: in that discussion. You're allowed to have an opinion. It's
[15:12] Speaker 1: not like, oh, well you decide kids, It's not this.
[15:15] Speaker 1: The kids can make up their own minds all the
[15:18] Speaker 1: way through their lives. You definitely want to be explicitly
[15:20] Speaker 1: teaching them. Some people say you shouldn't bother explicitly teaching.
[15:24] Speaker 1: It doesn't work and it's certainly challenging, But when you
[15:27] Speaker 1: have that reflection it makes such a difference. Also pro
[15:30] Speaker 1: tip to you because when she said that to you,
[15:34] Speaker 1: you didn't say good, I don't like you listening to it.
[15:36] Speaker 1: You said, well, what do you think you should do?
[15:38] Speaker 1: You encouraged more reflection when I.
[15:41] Speaker 2: Think about what you've just said. None of these conversations
[15:45] Speaker 2: are a one and done conversation. If that's all we do,
[15:50] Speaker 2: then explicit teaching doesn't work because it's just a one off.
[15:54] Speaker 2: It's just a blip in the scheme of their lives.
[15:59] Speaker 2: But if where can persistently having conversations with them that
[16:02] Speaker 2: bring them back to that wrestle, that bring them back
[16:05] Speaker 2: to that conversation where they get to be challenged and
[16:09] Speaker 2: push against the boundaries, that's where the real learning takes place.
[16:14] Speaker 1: We really hope that these take home messages are helpful
[16:16] Speaker 1: for your family and that you can take them home
[16:18] Speaker 1: and have some great conversations with your kids. And I
[16:21] Speaker 1: don't know booking for a kinesiologists.
[16:23] Speaker 2: Maybe I've got a good one if you need one.
[16:27] Speaker 1: Have a great weekend everyone. The Happy Families podcast is
[16:28] Speaker 1: produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides all
[16:32] Speaker 1: the research, admin and additional support that we need to
[16:35] Speaker 1: run the pod. Hey, how's the social media band going.
[16:38] Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that on Monday. Please join
[16:41] Speaker 1: us then. Plus a big conversation about body image coming
[16:44] Speaker 1: up next week as well. If you'd like more InFine resources,
[16:47] Speaker 1: keep listening to the podcasts, share it with your friends
[16:49] Speaker 1: because it'll make their family happier as well, and visit
[16:51] Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot au for more

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