# Minister for Boys and Men?

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 23 Mar 2026, 23 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/51f9a325-7ce0-4db4-b0bc-b40f00bf2271/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

What if the biggest threat to families right now is something no one wants to talk about? Boys and men are struggling - and the ripple effect is hitting homes, relationships, and entire communities. In this confronting and deeply important conversation, Justin and Kylie unpack what’s really going wrong, why it matters for every parent, and what we can actually do to raise boys who thrive. KEY POINTS • Boys and men are overrepresented in violence, suicide, addiction, and disengagement • When men don’t thrive, everyone around them is impacted • Focusing only on “fixing behaviour” misses the deeper issues • Boys need a clear model of healthy masculinity: making others feel safe and strong • Key areas for change: mental health, education, fatherhood, and purpose • Ignoring boys’ struggles can lead to resentment, division, and long-term social consequences QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Help boys become men who make the people around them feel safer and stronger.” RESOURCES MENTIONED • Boys by Dr Justin Coulson ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Talk openly with your son about emotions, purpose, and identity • Model and reinforce what healthy masculinity looks like at home • Prioritise connection - especially with fathers or father figures • Watch for signs of withdrawal, anger, or disengagement and respond early • Encourage pathways into education, skills, or meaningful work See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Family Podcast where we answer
[0:08] Speaker 1: your tricky questions every Tuesday.
[0:09] Speaker 2: Today it's a doozy.
[0:11] Speaker 1: With the upcoming book published by HarperCollins and ABC Books
[0:15] Speaker 1: called Boys by Me. Doctor Justin Coulson Building Strong Young
[0:18] Speaker 1: Men from the inside Out had a question come through
[0:21] Speaker 1: about how boys are doing, how men are doing, and
[0:23] Speaker 1: what we can do to turn things around because the
[0:27] Speaker 1: short answer is things aren't going particularly well. More on
[0:30] Speaker 1: what this means for our country but also for our
[0:34] Speaker 1: sons right after this. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families
[0:40] Speaker 1: podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day.
[0:43] Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin
[0:46] Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson Today. What do we do about the
[0:49] Speaker 1: Can we call it a crisis? The men and boys
[0:52] Speaker 1: challenges crisis?
[0:53] Speaker 2: I'm going to say it. I'm going to go there.
[0:54] Speaker 1: The difficulties that we're facing when it comes to the
[0:57] Speaker 1: well being, the development and even the behavior have so
[1:02] Speaker 1: many boys and men. Every Tuesday we answer your tricky
[1:05] Speaker 1: questions about tricky stuff like family and relationships and well
[1:09] Speaker 1: being in screens and discipline and boys and men. So,
[1:12] Speaker 1: if you'd like to submit a tricky question. We've got
[1:14] Speaker 1: a really super simple system. Try and say that three
[1:16] Speaker 1: times fastness. Happy Families give it to me now, super
[1:20] Speaker 1: simple system.
[1:21] Speaker 3: Super simple system, super simplsis.
[1:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tricky one, isn't it. The super simple
[1:27] Speaker 1: system is a Happy Families dot com DoD au. Justcrolled
[1:30] Speaker 1: down to see the record button you when you're a literation.
[1:32] Speaker 2: And start talking.
[1:34] Speaker 1: Otherwise you can send us a voice note to podcasts
[1:37] Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au, just like Neil
[1:40] Speaker 1: did with this question.
[1:42] Speaker 4: Can I Justin and Kylie? This is Neil from Brisbane.
[1:44] Speaker 4: There have been some MPs and commentators calling for a
[1:48] Speaker 4: minister from men, which at first I thought was a
[1:51] Speaker 4: crazy idea minority groups might benefit from special representation in government.
[1:55] Speaker 4: But man, really, but when we think of some of
[1:58] Speaker 4: the challenges facing us throughllians violent crime, especially domestic violence, gambling,
[2:03] Speaker 4: traffic accidents, workplace accidents and suicide, these topics affect men
[2:08] Speaker 4: far more than women, and if we can reduce those
[2:10] Speaker 4: things crime, gambling, suicide and accidents, then every Australian could
[2:14] Speaker 4: be better off. Justin give them the topic of your
[2:17] Speaker 4: new book coming home soon we help. Do you think
[2:19] Speaker 4: Austrillians should have administer from n and government.
[2:22] Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Neil, I love this question and I
[2:25] Speaker 2: love his accent. Isn't it great?
[2:28] Speaker 1: And I think it's the exact right framing. Anyway, missus
[2:31] Speaker 1: happy families, You are not politically inclined as general rule,
[2:35] Speaker 1: and you still haven't read the book. Does anything come
[2:39] Speaker 1: to mind when you hear the question? Is there anything
[2:40] Speaker 1: that you would like to divert into and ask about
[2:43] Speaker 1: before I just start talking and don't give you a
[2:46] Speaker 1: breath for the next fifteen minutes because there's so much
[2:47] Speaker 1: I want to say about this.
[2:49] Speaker 3: I feel like this is a really tricky one. I
[2:51] Speaker 3: think that humankind need help, like I think across the board,
[2:59] Speaker 3: and I don't understand why we have to segregate everything.
[3:03] Speaker 3: Why it has to be you know, gender related or
[3:06] Speaker 3: marital status or whatever. Like we're just constantly trying to
[3:10] Speaker 3: segregate and you know, kind of box people into a
[3:15] Speaker 3: label as a puser.
[3:16] Speaker 2: So let's call it identity politics.
[3:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, as opposed to recognizing that as a human being,
[3:21] Speaker 3: we all have needs, we all have rights, we all
[3:24] Speaker 3: have wants and desires.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. If there was a
[3:29] Speaker 1: house on fire in our street and you're driving down
[3:32] Speaker 1: the street, would you pay attention to any particular house
[3:35] Speaker 1: more than any.
[3:35] Speaker 3: Other the house on fire?
[3:38] Speaker 1: Okay, So what I think really matters here, and I
[3:42] Speaker 1: actually agree with you everybody needs to be treated as humans,
[3:44] Speaker 1: and we need to look after humankind to generally.
[3:46] Speaker 2: You are one hundred percent right, totally agree.
[3:49] Speaker 1: But if there are a subset of humans who are
[3:51] Speaker 1: not doing well, let's let's look at our indigenous population,
[3:53] Speaker 1: for example, then would it be reasonable to say, let's
[3:57] Speaker 1: an additional attention, let's put let's put some water on
[3:59] Speaker 1: this fire and see if we can help that particular
[4:02] Speaker 1: cohort that particular population to start looking like the other
[4:06] Speaker 1: houses in the street, not necessarily by conforming, but by
[4:11] Speaker 1: not being on fire anymore. Is that a reasonable analogy entirely?
[4:15] Speaker 3: I think so. Is the reason that men are struggling
[4:18] Speaker 3: so much in society today a direct result of this
[4:24] Speaker 3: idea around equal rights and women wanting competition with a
[4:32] Speaker 3: man's role as opposed to recognizing that we have really
[4:36] Speaker 3: distinct and varied strengths on either side that compliment each
[4:42] Speaker 3: other instead of trying to fight for equal place.
[4:45] Speaker 1: So that's probably a broader sociological and political power question,
[4:49] Speaker 1: and people will vary right across the spectrum on that
[4:54] Speaker 1: in relation to what's happening right now, which is really
[4:57] Speaker 1: where Neil's focused, and it does time very much with
[4:59] Speaker 1: my boys, which you can pretty good to right now
[5:01] Speaker 1: at bootopia dot com dot au.
[5:02] Speaker 2: I my dad.
[5:04] Speaker 1: The data show that, so if you look at disadvantaged groups,
[5:08] Speaker 1: if you look at groups that are struggling, the person
[5:11] Speaker 1: most likely to struggle in Australia today is male. Like
[5:14] Speaker 1: if you just look at a gender breakdown, we look
[5:16] Speaker 1: at various other breakdowns, we look at ages, or we
[5:18] Speaker 1: look at race, and we look at a whole range
[5:20] Speaker 1: of other variables, but at the very core of it,
[5:23] Speaker 1: it's a male who is much more likely to struggle
[5:25] Speaker 1: with things like violent crime, domestic violence, gambling, traffic accidents,
[5:30] Speaker 1: workplace death, suicide. They're much more likely to be hurt
[5:33] Speaker 1: by another man, So men are much more likely perpetrate,
[5:36] Speaker 1: but they're also much more likely to the victims of crime.
[5:38] Speaker 1: They're also much more likely to hurt themselves. And so
[5:42] Speaker 1: my take on this question is that by addressing the
[5:47] Speaker 1: challenges that men are experiencing, we have a crisis hurting everybody,
[5:52] Speaker 1: and that is that men are failing to thrive. We
[5:54] Speaker 1: have too many non thriving males, both boys and men,
[5:57] Speaker 1: and if we can help males to thrive.
[5:59] Speaker 2: Then everybody gets lifted up.
[6:01] Speaker 1: Everybody does better because when men are doing well, they
[6:03] Speaker 1: make sure that the women around them are doing well
[6:04] Speaker 1: as well. But when men are not doing well, they
[6:06] Speaker 1: hurt themselves, they hurt each other, and they hurt women
[6:09] Speaker 1: at vastly higher rates. Men are committing ninety five percent
[6:13] Speaker 1: of violent crimes. So that's not just a men's problem.
[6:16] Speaker 1: That's community safety problems. You've said all people. But if
[6:19] Speaker 1: we can't lift men up, then we're going to have challenges.
[6:21] Speaker 1: Men are dying at the rate of three to four
[6:23] Speaker 1: times that of women. When we look at suicide, that's
[6:27] Speaker 1: obviously horrendously tragic for those men and their families.
[6:30] Speaker 2: We've been through that, but look at who's most affected.
[6:34] Speaker 3: It's interesting because I don't disagree with anything you're saying,
[6:37] Speaker 3: but when you look at society in general, it feels like,
[6:41] Speaker 3: and this is I'm acknowledging, it feels like, not necessarily
[6:45] Speaker 3: it is, but it feels like men hold all power.
[6:49] Speaker 1: Right, I want to talk about pushback a little bit later.
[6:51] Speaker 1: That is one of the big issues of pushback.
[6:53] Speaker 2: There's men at.
[6:55] Speaker 1: Top outnumbering the women, but there's also men form bottom
[6:58] Speaker 1: line outnumbering the women one percent. Really really concerning. So
[7:02] Speaker 1: this question that is asking, though it's not it's not
[7:06] Speaker 1: unique to Australia.
[7:08] Speaker 3: So is anything happening like this globally?
[7:10] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[7:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, So in the UK they've been debating this, get
[7:13] Speaker 1: this more than twenty years now. A guy called Lord Northbourne. Northbourne,
[7:18] Speaker 1: I feel very fancy saying it, but I can't say
[7:19] Speaker 1: it properly. Lord Northbourne first proposed to he said, if
[7:23] Speaker 1: there's a minister for women in mine for children, then
[7:25] Speaker 1: that assumes that men don't have problems. And then a
[7:28] Speaker 1: few years ago there was a Conservative MP. His name
[7:31] Speaker 1: was Nick Fletcher. He pointed out that forty one percent
[7:34] Speaker 1: of British high school boys were being told that boys
[7:38] Speaker 1: are a problem for society's that's the message they were
[7:40] Speaker 1: receiving from society. He cited mail underachievement in education, lower
[7:45] Speaker 1: university enrollment, and the fact that a huge number of
[7:48] Speaker 1: boys and men just feel like they are failing to
[7:51] Speaker 1: thrive in my data here in Australia that I've written
[7:53] Speaker 1: about in the book. The stats in terms of our
[7:56] Speaker 1: young men finishing school and going on the university or
[8:00] Speaker 1: even being in employment educational training. It's devastating compared to
[8:04] Speaker 1: how the girl's going. We've got a whole lot of
[8:06] Speaker 1: other stuff happening in the UK. In New Zealand, they
[8:10] Speaker 1: have been making the same argument for quite some time.
[8:12] Speaker 1: In the United States, Michigan is one state. There's a
[8:16] Speaker 1: couple of other states.
[8:16] Speaker 2: I can't remember what they are. I know that Utah
[8:18] Speaker 2: is one of them as well.
[8:19] Speaker 1: They're appointing ministers for men because they're recognizing that if
[8:22] Speaker 1: we can lift men up.
[8:23] Speaker 2: They'll do better.
[8:23] Speaker 1: But I want to give a counter example, something that
[8:26] Speaker 1: I didn't write about in the book because it's just
[8:28] Speaker 1: it's so interesting, but it wasn't part of what the
[8:30] Speaker 1: book was about is what's happened in South Korea. So
[8:33] Speaker 1: cautionary tale for what happens when you ignore young men
[8:36] Speaker 1: and the issues they're having. South Korea has had a
[8:40] Speaker 1: Ministry of Gender Equality since two thousand and one. But
[8:44] Speaker 1: when you translate the Korean name, which I can't speak,
[8:46] Speaker 1: but which all the research that I did shows that
[8:48] Speaker 1: this is what happens The Minister of the Ministry sorry
[8:52] Speaker 1: of gender Equality, translates as the Ministry of Women Affairs
[8:54] Speaker 1: and Family, not gender equality, and the young Korean men
[8:59] Speaker 1: well like, well, hang on, it's going on here. It
[9:00] Speaker 1: feels like we're being left out. A couple of years ago,
[9:04] Speaker 1: the presidential election was won by someone called Junsukul, and
[9:09] Speaker 1: that was one on an explicitly anti feminist platform promising let's.
[9:14] Speaker 2: Abolish the ministry, but the work had already been done.
[9:16] Speaker 1: So South Korea currently has one of the worst gender
[9:19] Speaker 1: divides in the developed world. In twenty twenty five, they
[9:22] Speaker 1: had to add a gender Equity Policy division specifically to
[9:25] Speaker 1: address discrimination against men because the backlasher become so severe
[9:29] Speaker 1: that you couldn't ignore it anymore. And what the lesson
[9:32] Speaker 1: really is is that when you only talk about one
[9:34] Speaker 1: gender's problems, you create resentment, and that resentment doesn't actually
[9:36] Speaker 1: make anyone safer. It entrenches and embeds the misogyny and
[9:41] Speaker 1: the anger and the resentment that we've been seeing in
[9:43] Speaker 1: things like Lui Thru's Inside the Manisphere documentary.
[9:55] Speaker 3: So where does Australia sit in relation to this ideology?
[9:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've taken different approach. I don't think that
[10:01] Speaker 1: it's working, and Neil is right to be asking this question.
[10:04] Speaker 1: So Victoria is the first place to do something about this.
[10:07] Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I think it was twenty
[10:08] Speaker 1: twenty four, they appointed Australia's first Parliamentary Secretary for Men's
[10:12] Speaker 1: Behavior Change guy called Tim Richardson his job therefore, think
[10:16] Speaker 1: about the title as Secretary for Men's Behavior Change. Focus
[10:21] Speaker 1: therefore is changing men's behavior, addressing violence against women. So
[10:26] Speaker 1: I don't want to be misrepresented here. When we talk
[10:29] Speaker 1: about family and domestic violence, we are talking about something
[10:32] Speaker 1: that is really severe and problematic. I'm astonished at how
[10:35] Speaker 1: bad the numbers are here in Australia. It is breathtaking.
[10:38] Speaker 1: Gob'smackingly bad. So I don't want to downplay anything.
[10:42] Speaker 2: That's going on here.
[10:43] Speaker 1: It's just unacceptable. But my problem with Victorian approaches as
[10:46] Speaker 1: follows it frames men exclusively, is the problem not as
[10:49] Speaker 1: people who might be struggling, not as people who don't
[10:51] Speaker 1: understand how to deal with their alcohol and other drug addictions,
[10:54] Speaker 1: or their emotion dysregulation, all the traumatic events that they've
[10:58] Speaker 1: witnessed in experience growing up, all the fact that they're
[11:00] Speaker 1: living in this man box that tells them that the
[11:01] Speaker 1: beliefs that they have can only be sustained through their aggression,
[11:06] Speaker 1: and through their dominance, and through their abusive and subversive behavior,
[11:09] Speaker 1: through their controlling and coercive behavior.
[11:12] Speaker 3: Well, when you can monetize that behavior, there's no reason
[11:16] Speaker 3: to assume that it's wrong.
[11:17] Speaker 2: So right, you're right.
[11:21] Speaker 1: I just don't like this idea that it's a Minister
[11:23] Speaker 1: for behavior change, men's behavior change. If it was a
[11:26] Speaker 1: minister for men's well being, if it was a minister
[11:28] Speaker 1: for boys' mental health, I'd like it a lot more.
[11:30] Speaker 1: But it's a minister for changing men's behavior as if
[11:33] Speaker 1: all men are perpetrators in waiting, And for me, I
[11:38] Speaker 1: think it's a mistake, even though that will come across
[11:43] Speaker 1: as crass and inappropriate to a lot of people, it's
[11:45] Speaker 1: a mistake to say that every single man is a
[11:48] Speaker 1: perpetrator in waiting.
[11:49] Speaker 2: It's just not fair.
[11:51] Speaker 1: And I know that there's that whole not all men
[11:53] Speaker 1: hashtag that's out there and it gets people up in arms.
[11:56] Speaker 1: The reality is, though, and you said this recently when
[11:58] Speaker 1: we're talking about a Lui Thru's inside the mana in
[12:00] Speaker 1: your bubble in your world. You just don't know any
[12:04] Speaker 1: men who are perpetrators the people that you deal with.
[12:08] Speaker 2: In your social circle.
[12:09] Speaker 1: Unfortunately, for me and for our family mostly it's exactly
[12:12] Speaker 1: the same thing, right, We're dealing with good people who
[12:15] Speaker 1: are not doing these kinds of things. So we don't
[12:17] Speaker 1: need a men's parliamentary, a parliamentary sectory for men's behavior change.
[12:23] Speaker 1: What we need is somebody who can work with men
[12:27] Speaker 1: on the challenges they're facing so that we can help
[12:29] Speaker 1: everybody to do better. New Zealand is also doing it.
[12:32] Speaker 1: By the way, I forgot to mention this. So when
[12:35] Speaker 1: you see men only through the lens of what they're
[12:38] Speaker 1: doing wrong and tell them they need to behave better,
[12:41] Speaker 1: you're actually alienating the very people that you're.
[12:43] Speaker 2: Trying to reach.
[12:44] Speaker 1: And I just it's typical for what so much of
[12:46] Speaker 1: what's happened in Victoria over the last few years has been.
[12:49] Speaker 1: But if we can have a minister focused on men's health,
[12:51] Speaker 1: on suicide prevention, on educational attainment, on positive role models,
[12:55] Speaker 1: on emotion regulation, on responsible use or zero use of
[12:59] Speaker 1: alcohol and other substances that are getting into their lives
[13:02] Speaker 1: and destroying their motivation, their capacity their regulatory capacity and
[13:05] Speaker 1: their relationships. That's a completely different conversation.
[13:09] Speaker 3: So you've just listed a whole heap of things that
[13:11] Speaker 3: you think would need to be in his portfolio or
[13:14] Speaker 3: her portfolio in order for this to be effective. But
[13:18] Speaker 3: what would they actually do.
[13:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, if we had a men's Minister or a Minister
[13:22] Speaker 1: for men in Australia, I would want them to focus on.
[13:24] Speaker 1: First of all, my suicide prevention. We lose Oh gosh,
[13:28] Speaker 1: I hate even saying this and it brings back so
[13:30] Speaker 1: much for what we've been through, but we lose over
[13:33] Speaker 1: two thousand Australian men to suicide every single year. I mean,
[13:37] Speaker 1: we talk about bringing the road told down, but that's
[13:41] Speaker 1: more than double the road toll. Those numbers are staggering.
[13:44] Speaker 1: I think about the compound effect of the loss of
[13:47] Speaker 1: those two thousand lives, the ripple effect, the way that
[13:50] Speaker 1: it rolls through friends and family, through mothers and fathers
[13:53] Speaker 1: and children and cousins, and the impact is just astronomical.
[14:00] Speaker 1: And I don't think that we have equivalent investment. I
[14:02] Speaker 1: don't think that we have a national strategy here that works.
[14:04] Speaker 1: So I would think that that would be an area
[14:06] Speaker 1: that absolutely needs focus.
[14:07] Speaker 2: Second, thing healthy masculinity education. I don't think that.
[14:11] Speaker 1: Programs in schools work particularly well, and that has to
[14:14] Speaker 1: do with sometimes the content of the program. Sometimes it
[14:16] Speaker 1: has to do with the quality of the people who
[14:18] Speaker 1: are teaching the programs. There are a whole lot of
[14:20] Speaker 1: factors that go into it. But I think that we
[14:22] Speaker 1: need programs and conversations that teach boys what healthy masculinity
[14:27] Speaker 1: looks like, not be less masculine, or be more feminine,
[14:31] Speaker 1: or be more in touch with your emotions. Not masculinity
[14:33] Speaker 1: as toxic. But and it's just two words, safer and stronger,
[14:38] Speaker 1: helping the people around you feel safer and stronger. Like
[14:40] Speaker 1: if we could drill that into the mind of every
[14:42] Speaker 1: young male in this country, I think we would have revolution.
[14:46] Speaker 3: I also think if you abolished alcohol now would change
[14:50] Speaker 3: the market as well.
[14:51] Speaker 1: We have friends who are police and they've all said
[14:54] Speaker 1: eighty to ninet percent of trime would disappear if you
[14:56] Speaker 1: could get rid of it.
[14:56] Speaker 3: Would you imagine, I mean we're talking almost utopian.
[15:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[15:00] Speaker 1: The third thing that I would say, and there's good
[15:02] Speaker 1: foundations out there that are doing this work already, but
[15:04] Speaker 1: the fatherhood support we know, we know, Oh my goodness,
[15:09] Speaker 1: involved father's one of the best predictors of child wellbeing.
[15:13] Speaker 1: But the way that we've got paternity leave happening in
[15:15] Speaker 1: this country, and the policies that we've got around dads
[15:19] Speaker 1: and their involvement with their children, especially post separation, post divorce.
[15:23] Speaker 1: I understand that we need to keep children safe and
[15:25] Speaker 1: that there are unsafe men, so I'm not stepping into
[15:28] Speaker 1: that territory. But if there is no evidence that a
[15:31] Speaker 1: man has done the wrong thing. We have a friend.
[15:34] Speaker 1: We have a friend who has been estranged from his
[15:35] Speaker 1: children because false accusations were made about his supposed abuse,
[15:40] Speaker 1: and he has not seen his children for seven years.
[15:42] Speaker 1: He writes them malotters every week. He does everything he
[15:45] Speaker 1: can to have some kind of semblance of a relationship
[15:47] Speaker 1: with them in conjunction with the court in post orders.
[15:51] Speaker 1: But this guy is a good guy. Yes, he's made mistakes,
[15:55] Speaker 1: but perhaps the biggest mistake that he made was the
[15:57] Speaker 1: person who he married, who has just been disgraceful people
[16:00] Speaker 1: live and who has lied and lied and lied. And
[16:03] Speaker 1: so by creating better stuff in the courts and also
[16:07] Speaker 1: better family support at a fatherhood support, I think that
[16:10] Speaker 1: would make a big difference. Also, I know that what
[16:12] Speaker 1: I just said is going to upset a lot of people,
[16:14] Speaker 1: and they're going to say that all of a sudden,
[16:15] Speaker 1: I'm becoming one of those hardcore men going their own
[16:17] Speaker 1: way kind of things. That's not what I'm saying. I
[16:19] Speaker 1: don't want to be misquoted. There are men out there
[16:21] Speaker 1: who should not be near their children, but I know
[16:23] Speaker 1: in this specific case, with this particular dad, it's unfair.
[16:26] Speaker 1: In fact, we know several people who have been through this,
[16:28] Speaker 1: most of them not quite so bad. Two more things, Kylie,
[16:31] Speaker 1: and I know we've got to wrap this up. Number One,
[16:33] Speaker 1: addressing the educational underachievement of young men, getting them finishing
[16:38] Speaker 1: high school, getting them to university, getting them skilled, getting
[16:41] Speaker 1: them trades, getting them employed beyond that base level would
[16:45] Speaker 1: make such a difference. Currently, I think Australia's got forty
[16:49] Speaker 1: four universities. I'd have to double check the manuscript of
[16:51] Speaker 1: my book, and women outnumber men in forty two of
[16:55] Speaker 1: those forty four universities. Like, the numbers are just staggering.
[16:59] Speaker 3: And what again, that blows me away from the perspective
[17:03] Speaker 3: that I wouldn't begin to guess what the numbers are.
[17:08] Speaker 3: But women are the main caregivers.
[17:11] Speaker 1: That's exactly right, yes, And when you've got a sixty
[17:14] Speaker 1: forty split, that's what the split is. By the way,
[17:16] Speaker 1: in a lot of these in the university secretary generally
[17:18] Speaker 1: sixty percent of university students now a female, forty percent
[17:21] Speaker 1: a male. What's also happening there has massive social implications
[17:26] Speaker 1: because as again politically incorrect as it might sound to
[17:28] Speaker 1: say this, women do tend to marry a cross or
[17:31] Speaker 1: up when it comes to the socio economic and educational
[17:33] Speaker 1: capacity of their partners, whereas men are pretty happy to
[17:36] Speaker 1: marry anyone across up or down that don't really care.
[17:39] Speaker 2: Let's have this relationship. I like you, you like me. This
[17:42] Speaker 2: is a win.
[17:43] Speaker 1: And so if women are looking across and up and
[17:46] Speaker 1: they're just done any men there, guess what happens. They
[17:48] Speaker 1: stay single or they stay single for longer. And when
[17:50] Speaker 1: you talk about the economic impact, the growth impact the
[17:53] Speaker 1: way our country is going, we actually are going to
[17:55] Speaker 1: sound like I'm a politician now, we actually need people
[17:58] Speaker 1: to be getting married and having children important socially, emotionally,
[18:02] Speaker 1: but also financially and economically for our country.
[18:04] Speaker 3: But the research also suggests that when you can be
[18:09] Speaker 3: in a loving saved monogamous relationship that you thrive.
[18:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where we get our thriving men.
[18:15] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[18:15] Speaker 1: And it gives men purpose. I was talking before about
[18:17] Speaker 1: non thriving men and boys. What gives them purpose is
[18:21] Speaker 1: having someone to protect and provide for. We watched this
[18:26] Speaker 1: happen with our first son in law.
[18:28] Speaker 2: He wanted to marry our daughter. He didn't really have
[18:31] Speaker 2: many prospects.
[18:32] Speaker 1: He wasn't going anywhere fast, and he was quitting everything
[18:36] Speaker 1: faster than he was starting things like. It was not
[18:38] Speaker 1: looking great, but he promised that he was going to
[18:41] Speaker 1: get his act together. He went and got an apprenticeship.
[18:42] Speaker 1: And we look at the decisions that he's made since marrying,
[18:45] Speaker 1: and we've asked him what his other mates who have
[18:47] Speaker 1: stayed single have done, and he's just leaps and bounds
[18:49] Speaker 1: in front. And it seems that marriage forced a level
[18:52] Speaker 1: of maturity on him. Does that work for everybody, No,
[18:54] Speaker 1: of course not, but it seems like and the research
[18:56] Speaker 1: evidence points that that is directional, if not causal.
[19:00] Speaker 3: So I'm going to imagine that there's probably some pretty
[19:03] Speaker 3: big pushback year relation to this.
[19:05] Speaker 1: There is, and even some of the things that I've
[19:07] Speaker 1: said today can be if they're not kept in context,
[19:11] Speaker 1: they can be really inflammatory for some people. And I
[19:13] Speaker 1: hope that I've been sensitive and I hope that I've
[19:16] Speaker 1: throw clear enough and made sure that the caveats are
[19:19] Speaker 1: in place where I've said what I've said, because there
[19:21] Speaker 1: are exceptions to what I've said, and I'm not throwing
[19:23] Speaker 1: a blanket over all of this. Here are the biggest
[19:28] Speaker 1: items of pushback. The first one goes back to what
[19:30] Speaker 1: you said about men have all the power, why do
[19:33] Speaker 1: they need a minister? There's a the.
[19:36] Speaker 3: People in the room who are making the decisions around
[19:38] Speaker 3: whether or not this would even go ahead predominantly male.
[19:42] Speaker 2: Tend to be men.
[19:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a bimodal distribution with the guys at
[19:45] Speaker 1: the top and at the bottom. I would also say
[19:48] Speaker 1: men with power. Men with power aren't the ones who
[19:51] Speaker 1: are dying in workplace accidents. And they're not the ones
[19:53] Speaker 1: who are taking their lives in regional sheds and on
[19:56] Speaker 1: farms in outback communities. The men who running the country
[20:01] Speaker 1: and corporations are not the men that we're worried about him.
[20:04] Speaker 3: Know that they're the ones that live in the bubble, correct.
[20:07] Speaker 1: I mean some of them have had their challenges as well.
[20:09] Speaker 1: John Brogden, former New South Wales I think was he
[20:11] Speaker 1: premier or opposition lad. He is quite open about his
[20:14] Speaker 1: depression and his attempts on his life and has written
[20:16] Speaker 1: a book about it and is doing what he can
[20:19] Speaker 1: for men's health because of what happened there. But I'm
[20:22] Speaker 1: worried about I'm worried about the boys in western Sydny.
[20:24] Speaker 1: I'm worried about the boys in regional New South Wales
[20:26] Speaker 1: that I was in a room with a couple of
[20:28] Speaker 1: months ago who were just going.
[20:29] Speaker 2: What's the point of this.
[20:30] Speaker 1: I'm concerned about the regional kids who are getting left
[20:33] Speaker 1: behind and just the non thriving Where is my purpose?
[20:35] Speaker 1: So that there is pushback, but I think that the
[20:37] Speaker 1: power issue can be dealt with. The second issue that
[20:40] Speaker 1: comes up a lot is this is taking away resources
[20:44] Speaker 1: from women and women need resources, and I think that
[20:47] Speaker 1: women do need resources, and there is an argument that
[20:50] Speaker 1: it could be but I would also say this is
[20:52] Speaker 1: not as zero of some situation. We can care about
[20:55] Speaker 1: women's health and safety and we can also care about
[20:59] Speaker 1: men's health.
[21:00] Speaker 3: I don't think it should ever be a one or
[21:02] Speaker 3: the other.
[21:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you look at what happened in South Korea.
[21:04] Speaker 1: They ignored this and the bottom fell out.
[21:07] Speaker 2: It went pair shaped.
[21:09] Speaker 1: Last pushback that I hear regularly, and it really ticks
[21:12] Speaker 1: me off, is that people say, well, men should just
[21:15] Speaker 1: fix this themselves. And it ticks me off because we
[21:19] Speaker 1: would not say that about any other group. Go back
[21:22] Speaker 1: to the house on fire situation that I was talking
[21:24] Speaker 1: about before. When Indigenous Australians are overrepresented in prisons or suicides,
[21:30] Speaker 1: we don't say, well, Indigenous people should just fix themselves.
[21:33] Speaker 1: We recognize that there are systemic issues and we intervene.
[21:36] Speaker 1: I don't think we're doing that very well there by
[21:37] Speaker 1: the way, but we do intervene, and the same principle
[21:40] Speaker 1: applies here. I just don't think the pushback is strong.
[21:43] Speaker 3: I think that regardless of which group we're talking about,
[21:47] Speaker 3: if people were capable of fixing themselves, then we wouldn't
[21:49] Speaker 3: have an issue. The very fact that we have an
[21:53] Speaker 3: issue suggests that help is needed, and wherever that help
[21:57] Speaker 3: is needed, I think that it's important for us to
[22:01] Speaker 3: navigate it as best we can.
[22:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Neil, thanks for your question. I've been on
[22:07] Speaker 1: quite a quite a journey. To use your word Khylie
[22:10] Speaker 1: in this podcast. But men, men don't deserve special treatment.
[22:16] Speaker 1: But there are too many boys and men who are struggling,
[22:18] Speaker 1: and when they're violent, when they're self destructive, when they're disconnected,
[22:23] Speaker 1: when they're not thriving, Unfortunately, everybody around them suffers. And
[22:27] Speaker 1: if we can reduce male suicide and male violence and
[22:31] Speaker 1: male disengagement from family and society and education and from
[22:34] Speaker 1: one another, if we can just help boys grown to
[22:37] Speaker 1: men who make the world feel safer and the people
[22:39] Speaker 1: around them feel safer and stronger, not more dangerous, not smaller,
[22:42] Speaker 1: then that's going to be not just good for men,
[22:44] Speaker 1: it's going to be good for everybody. So that's my
[22:48] Speaker 1: response to Neil's tricky question. Let us know what you think,
[22:51] Speaker 1: Send us a voice note, send us an email. Podcasts
[22:54] Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot you, or jump into
[22:56] Speaker 1: our socials and give us your feedback. The Happy Families
[22:59] Speaker 1: podcast produced by Justin Ruhlind from Bridge Media, with additional
[23:02] Speaker 1: support and resources from Mimhammond. If you would like more
[23:05] Speaker 1: information about making your family happier, or if you'd like
[23:08] Speaker 1: to pre order the Boys Book, you Got to have
[23:10] Speaker 1: your Families dot com dot you, join the waitlist, or
[23:13] Speaker 1: go to booktopia dot com, dot you and pre order
[23:15] Speaker 1: the book now

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