# The Friendship Advice Experts Swear By

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 22 Mar 2026, 16 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/157c074f-442a-40e9-9487-b40f00beec4e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

You’re not too busy for friendships - you’re just missing this. Loneliness is rising, even among people who seem to have it all. So why does making (and keeping) friends as an adult feel so hard? In this episode, we unpack the surprising science behind connection - and the simple, uncomfortable shifts that turn acquaintances into real friendships. If you’ve ever thought, “I wish I had deeper friendships”… this is the one to listen to. KEY POINTS • Why loneliness is rising - even when we’re more “connected” than ever • The hidden rule of friendship: it takes 50+ hours to even get started • Why discomfort is part of every meaningful relationship • The mistake most adults make (waiting instead of initiating) • How one brave invite can completely change your social life • Why face-to-face time beats texts, likes, and DMs every time QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Don’t wait - initiate. The friendships you want won’t build themselves.” RESOURCES MENTIONED • Research on friendship time thresholds (Jeff Hall, University of Kansas) ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Reach out to one person this week - don’t overthink it • Schedule time together (don’t leave it as “we should catch up”) • Put your phone away in shared spaces - create connection moments • Commit to consistency - friendship is built over hours, not intention • Say yes to discomfort - it’s a sign something meaningful is forming See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. The research
[0:09] Speaker 1: is bleak. Approximately seventeen percent one in six Australians aged
[0:14] Speaker 1: fifteen and above reports feeling lonely. Social isolation is high.
[0:21] Speaker 1: In fact, with young people between fifteen and twenty five,
[0:26] Speaker 1: forty three percent say that they are lonely. Now, if
[0:30] Speaker 1: you compare that to historical trends, historically it was always
[0:34] Speaker 1: the older Australians that were the loneliest. But we keep
[0:37] Speaker 1: on seeing younger and younger people feeling lonely. The thing is,
[0:40] Speaker 1: it's not just young people and.
[0:41] Speaker 2: It's not just old people.
[0:43] Speaker 1: It's kind of everybody because everybody is what's the word,
[0:47] Speaker 1: Oh that's right, so busy well. Today on the Happy
[0:50] Speaker 1: Families podcasts, we share some advice, not so much for
[0:53] Speaker 1: the kids, but for us as adults on how we
[0:56] Speaker 1: can strengthen relationships, build relationships and make friendships feel fantastic.
[1:02] Speaker 2: Stay with us.
[1:05] Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
[1:07] Speaker 1: real parenting solutions, real well beeat solutions every single day.
[1:11] Speaker 1: This is Australia's most download parenting podcast. We are Justin
[1:13] Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson. Kylie, we've experienced loneliness We've moved house
[1:17] Speaker 1: a number of times, including several interstate moves over the decades,
[1:21] Speaker 1: and we've had to start again. We've had to make
[1:23] Speaker 1: friends many, many times today on the Pod, three ideas
[1:27] Speaker 1: to help make friendships happen when you're a grown up
[1:30] Speaker 1: and reaching out can feel a little bit tricky.
[1:33] Speaker 3: In the early stages when you and I were moving
[1:36] Speaker 3: fairly regularly on.
[1:37] Speaker 1: My radio career, yeah, Yupoon Rockampton, Brisbane, one of all
[1:43] Speaker 1: Newcastle back to Brisbane.
[1:44] Speaker 2: Yep.
[1:45] Speaker 3: I was super blessed with a very gregarious eighteen month
[1:49] Speaker 3: old little girl who just loved people.
[1:53] Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Yeah.
[1:54] Speaker 3: We would literally go to the park and by the
[1:57] Speaker 3: time we had finished at the park, she had dragged
[2:01] Speaker 3: me over to meet some mum and we became friends.
[2:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:06] Speaker 3: We would say let's meet up at the park tomorrow.
[2:08] Speaker 3: Our kids got on really well, and then we'd meet
[2:10] Speaker 3: up at the park the next day, and then the
[2:12] Speaker 3: next day, and before you knew it.
[2:14] Speaker 1: I think that's unusual. I've got to say, like, I don't.
[2:17] Speaker 1: Do you think that's still happening.
[2:18] Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think it happens very often at all.
[2:21] Speaker 1: We kind of retreat to our phones, the kids are playing,
[2:23] Speaker 1: we folks on the kids, then we folks on our phone.
[2:25] Speaker 1: Then we get out of there before anybody puts us
[2:27] Speaker 1: in an uncomfortable position. Makes things feel a little bit awkward.
[2:30] Speaker 3: We watched that happen literally in the lift the other day.
[2:33] Speaker 3: We got in the lift and somebody else got in,
[2:35] Speaker 3: and as soon as they realized there was somebody else
[2:37] Speaker 3: in the lift, they pulled their phone out so they
[2:39] Speaker 3: didn't have to make eye contact or small.
[2:41] Speaker 1: They almost got back out of the lift, except the
[2:43] Speaker 1: door was closing and they were a little bit too
[2:45] Speaker 1: late for that. There's going to be a guest on
[2:47] Speaker 1: the Heavy Families podcast soon who talks about how human
[2:50] Speaker 1: socialization works. I'm going to be interviewing him just in
[2:53] Speaker 1: the next few days. The interview will show up shortly.
[2:56] Speaker 1: But he had this fascinating study where he stopped people
[2:59] Speaker 1: as I were getting on the train in Pennsylvania heading
[3:03] Speaker 1: into New York City for work. And you've been on
[3:07] Speaker 1: the train in New York City, nobody talks. Everybody sits there.
[3:10] Speaker 1: It's kind of scary, except for the people who were
[3:12] Speaker 1: dancing or singing or going a litt bit crazy.
[3:14] Speaker 3: But except for the night we sat on the train
[3:16] Speaker 3: and this guy literally fell asleep.
[3:18] Speaker 2: When you were shot.
[3:19] Speaker 1: Well, there was that as well. Yeah, and then there
[3:21] Speaker 1: are the times where we've started conversations with people because
[3:24] Speaker 1: we've been a bit lost, a little bit uncertain about
[3:26] Speaker 1: what's going on. But generally speaking, people don't talk to
[3:28] Speaker 1: random strangers on public transport. And this researcher, he would
[3:32] Speaker 1: say to people, I want to do a quick well
[3:35] Speaker 1: being test. Can you fill in this or can you
[3:36] Speaker 1: tell me? Can you answer these three questions about your
[3:38] Speaker 1: well being? And then he would literally say, when you
[3:41] Speaker 1: get on the train, I'd like you to talk to somebody,
[3:43] Speaker 1: talk to a stranger, have a chat, have a random
[3:45] Speaker 1: conversation with somebody. How do you feel about that? And
[3:48] Speaker 1: people were just consistently saying, no way, this is nuts.
[3:51] Speaker 2: I don't feel comfortable. This does not feel nice.
[3:53] Speaker 1: And you're like, well, do it and give me a number,
[3:55] Speaker 1: and I want to follow up and see how it went.
[3:57] Speaker 1: And what he found was invariably people who did it
[4:00] Speaker 1: reported higher levels of well being. Like we just we
[4:02] Speaker 1: crave connection. We love it when we go down to
[4:04] Speaker 1: the local cafe and they know our name and they
[4:06] Speaker 1: call out our name and they've got our order right,
[4:08] Speaker 1: or when they see us and they smile in their
[4:10] Speaker 1: eyes light up because they know who we are and
[4:12] Speaker 1: that we're a regular.
[4:13] Speaker 2: Whatever it is, we crave.
[4:15] Speaker 1: Connection, and yet we seem to push away from it.
[4:17] Speaker 1: So three things, Three things that can make a really
[4:21] Speaker 1: big difference in building relationships. I want to start with
[4:24] Speaker 1: the magic number fifty hours. So there's a researcher at
[4:30] Speaker 1: the University of Kansas, professor Jeff Hall, found that it
[4:33] Speaker 1: takes roughly fifty hours of time to move from mere
[4:35] Speaker 1: acquaintance to casual friend, ninety hours to go from that
[4:38] Speaker 1: stage to friend status, and more than two hundred hours
[4:42] Speaker 1: before you can consider someone you's close friend. That's what
[4:45] Speaker 1: we're up against. You have to put in the time.
[4:49] Speaker 3: So what I love about this is the tension we
[4:52] Speaker 3: have around getting comfortable with being uncomfortable when we're starting
[4:58] Speaker 3: a relationship. No matter what it is, a romantic relationship,
[5:02] Speaker 3: a friendship, an acquaintance, a work colleague, whatever, there is
[5:06] Speaker 3: always a level of uncomfortability that comes with the new connection.
[5:12] Speaker 1: Well, because that means that you're starting to expose yourself
[5:14] Speaker 1: a little bit vulnerability sharing things about your life. Am
[5:17] Speaker 1: I going to be rejected. How fragile are they? How
[5:19] Speaker 1: fragile am I? Are they going to say something weird?
[5:21] Speaker 1: There's all of these things that you're constantly thinking about.
[5:24] Speaker 1: What happens if they like somebody politically that I don't
[5:26] Speaker 1: like what?
[5:27] Speaker 3: Or you just have an awkward silence and you don't
[5:30] Speaker 3: know how to fill it, or you run out of questions,
[5:34] Speaker 3: or the other person doesn't seem interested. Yeah, you know,
[5:38] Speaker 3: like there's all of these things that are quite benign
[5:41] Speaker 3: in and of themselves. We overinterpret them, but we do
[5:44] Speaker 3: overinterpret them, and we don't like the feeling of being
[5:48] Speaker 3: uncomfortable or not feeling in control of the situation. And
[5:53] Speaker 3: we also take rejection in the moment as something personal
[5:57] Speaker 3: as opposed to the realization that it might just be
[6:00] Speaker 3: poor timing, there might be other things going on in
[6:03] Speaker 3: their life at the moment. But we make it much
[6:06] Speaker 3: bigger than it is.
[6:07] Speaker 1: So if everyone's so busy, it's really hard to find
[6:09] Speaker 1: fifty hours to spend with somebody.
[6:12] Speaker 3: And it's fifty intentional hours, right, You don't go and
[6:15] Speaker 3: watch fifty hours of TV together, No, it's not going
[6:18] Speaker 3: to build a relationship.
[6:19] Speaker 2: Correct.
[6:20] Speaker 1: Let me give an example of this though, the homeschool group.
[6:23] Speaker 1: First few times you shout up to the homeschool group,
[6:25] Speaker 1: nobody was really chatting with you. You weren't sure how
[6:28] Speaker 1: you could break your way into the mums that were
[6:31] Speaker 1: all chatting. But of time, as you built up that
[6:34] Speaker 1: fifty hours, you became.
[6:36] Speaker 3: My life lying like literally my life.
[6:39] Speaker 2: Have become that now. Yeah.
[6:40] Speaker 1: Absolutely, And it's the same whether you're in a church
[6:42] Speaker 1: group or in a workspace or at the local sports club,
[6:46] Speaker 1: surf club, whatever.
[6:46] Speaker 2: It is that you're doing.
[6:48] Speaker 1: When you put the hours in, that's when the relationship develops.
[6:51] Speaker 1: If you don't put the hours in, you never create
[6:53] Speaker 1: the depth that's required. Again, I just find this fascinating
[6:55] Speaker 1: fifty hours to go from oh, yeah I know this
[6:58] Speaker 1: person to yeah, we're friends or we're casual friends, like
[7:02] Speaker 1: we can catch up. But it's somewhere closer to one
[7:05] Speaker 1: hundred hours before you're like, hey, I want to send
[7:07] Speaker 1: you a text and share this thing with.
[7:09] Speaker 2: You that I saw because I know that you'd really
[7:10] Speaker 2: like and that's really funny.
[7:11] Speaker 1: Or two hundred hours where you're saying, hey, let's get
[7:14] Speaker 1: our families together and catch up and really hang out.
[7:17] Speaker 3: And you know what, I've just had a really really
[7:19] Speaker 3: bad day and I just need a debrief with someone.
[7:21] Speaker 1: Yep, yep, exactly two hundred hours, So time you've got
[7:25] Speaker 1: to put the time in, otherwise the relationship doesn't work
[7:27] Speaker 1: after the break. I want to share what I think
[7:28] Speaker 1: is the most important way for us as adults and
[7:30] Speaker 1: probably frankly for our children as well, to build meaningful friendships,
[7:35] Speaker 1: especially if we're feeling lonely.
[7:37] Speaker 2: Stay with Hello.
[7:45] Speaker 1: We're back with a Happy Families podcast. If you're enjoying
[7:48] Speaker 1: the podcast, please share it with the friend Please like it,
[7:50] Speaker 1: Please share it?
[7:50] Speaker 2: Please? What is it?
[7:52] Speaker 1: Five star ratings and reviews? We really love those ones.
[7:54] Speaker 1: They make a difference for people finding the pod. Kylie,
[7:57] Speaker 1: here's my second idea. This is the big one for me.
[8:00] Speaker 1: I call it aggressive friendship. Aggressive friendship.
[8:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, I push back on that, because can.
[8:06] Speaker 2: I just get another very aggressive on you to push back?
[8:08] Speaker 3: Yeah? All right, carry on.
[8:10] Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I mean by that. Maybe
[8:12] Speaker 1: a friendly a phrase would be don't wait initiate.
[8:16] Speaker 2: What I'm sort of saying.
[8:17] Speaker 3: Is I think that everybody's been in a situation where
[8:19] Speaker 3: there's been somebody who hasn't taken no for an answer.
[8:22] Speaker 3: That to me is aggressive friendship. It's someone who is
[8:25] Speaker 3: desperate to be in your circle, and there is They're
[8:28] Speaker 3: just it doesn't feel good.
[8:30] Speaker 2: When you say that. I feel like the close talker
[8:32] Speaker 2: who's getting in your y. Yeah. Ye, yes, what I mean.
[8:35] Speaker 3: So that's why I'm pushing that.
[8:37] Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so don't wait initiate being a being a
[8:39] Speaker 1: gentle nag.
[8:42] Speaker 2: Is what I mean.
[8:43] Speaker 3: So I hear you say that, I'm going.
[8:45] Speaker 2: Are you coming?
[8:46] Speaker 3: I can think of a handful of people that I
[8:49] Speaker 3: actually really love spending time with. Every time we bump
[8:53] Speaker 3: into each other accidentally at the shops, we haven't we
[8:56] Speaker 3: haven't planned it. We just we happen to bump into
[8:58] Speaker 3: each other. Yeah, both light up. We're so excited to
[9:01] Speaker 3: see each other. And we stand around for fifteen twenty
[9:04] Speaker 3: minutes and we have a quick chat and catch up
[9:06] Speaker 3: and then we and then we literally leave the conversation
[9:09] Speaker 3: with we have to catch up. Let's do it.
[9:12] Speaker 1: We have a neighbor literally across the road, and every
[9:14] Speaker 1: time I see them, I'm like, oh, Nick, Caroline, we've
[9:16] Speaker 1: got to spend time together. Every time we see them
[9:18] Speaker 1: out on the road, we end up having like a
[9:20] Speaker 1: thirty minute chat in the driveway or in the middle
[9:22] Speaker 1: of the road as the cars are going past, and
[9:25] Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, we need to, but we've never actually
[9:27] Speaker 1: initiated it. It's always the spontaneous, random chat.
[9:30] Speaker 3: And that's the challenge. If we don't actually initiate a
[9:34] Speaker 3: plan of action, then these friendships that could actually be
[9:40] Speaker 3: the bee's knees and light up our world continue to
[9:44] Speaker 3: be accidental catch ups, all.
[9:46] Speaker 1: Right, So don't wait to initiate is better than aggressive friendship.
[9:49] Speaker 1: Let me share an example of this, though, because it
[9:51] Speaker 1: doesn't work, and this goes back to your being willing
[9:53] Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable. We have planned a surf trip for
[9:58] Speaker 1: next April. Right, we're a year in advance because we're
[10:01] Speaker 1: having our quarterly getaways and we're discussing when we're going
[10:04] Speaker 1: and where we're going on that sort of thing. And
[10:05] Speaker 1: you're going to come with me on this surf trip.
[10:06] Speaker 1: It's to one of a place in Indonesia. And I
[10:09] Speaker 1: sent out an invitation to twenty of my friends who surf.
[10:13] Speaker 1: That's a lot of invitations. And I said, Kylie and
[10:16] Speaker 1: I are going in April to this place. Here are
[10:18] Speaker 1: the details, here are the dates. There's no expectation we
[10:21] Speaker 1: understand that you've got other things to spend your money on,
[10:23] Speaker 1: and this is maybe maybe it is, maybe it isn't
[10:26] Speaker 1: your kind of thing, but we would love to spend
[10:28] Speaker 1: some time with you, if you'd like to join us.
[10:30] Speaker 1: The surf retreat can only handle I think about eight couples.
[10:33] Speaker 1: It's a fairly small retreat. But all twenty of them
[10:38] Speaker 1: came back to me. Actually several of them didn't come
[10:40] Speaker 1: back to me at all, but pretty much all twenty
[10:42] Speaker 1: of them came back and said, I can't make it.
[10:44] Speaker 1: Got something else planned, doesn't fit within the budget. My
[10:47] Speaker 1: surf trip next year is to blah blah. Right, So
[10:49] Speaker 1: I got rejected by twenty people, but I didn't wait.
[10:51] Speaker 2: I initiated.
[10:52] Speaker 1: And then while I was having a random conversation with
[10:54] Speaker 1: an acquaintance, somebody that I definitely have not spent fifty
[10:58] Speaker 1: hours with, but somebody that i'd love to spend more
[11:01] Speaker 1: time with, I said to him, Hey, Aunt, you really
[11:04] Speaker 1: like surfing, don't you.
[11:05] Speaker 2: He lives in Victoria.
[11:06] Speaker 1: He's not even close to us, and we barely see
[11:08] Speaker 1: each other, and in fact, I don't think i've seen
[11:10] Speaker 1: him for three or four years. And I said, Kylie,
[11:13] Speaker 1: and I are going to go away to this place.
[11:15] Speaker 1: We're going to go on this trip. And he said,
[11:17] Speaker 1: I've got a mate who's been there, he raves about it.
[11:20] Speaker 1: I said, well, here are our dates. If you're keen,
[11:22] Speaker 1: we'd love to have you come along. So he's now
[11:24] Speaker 1: having a legitimate conversation with his wife about whether or
[11:27] Speaker 1: not that would work because he wants to come along.
[11:29] Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, this relationship that I've always
[11:34] Speaker 1: hoped to see germinate and really build into something.
[11:37] Speaker 2: Maybe it will.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Because if you spend a week on a SURFA treat
[11:40] Speaker 1: with another person, you're going to get your fifty hours,
[11:42] Speaker 1: probably one hundred hours maybe more, and then you build
[11:45] Speaker 1: a relationship, then you're that person who you catch up
[11:48] Speaker 1: more regularly, you have those conversations more frequently, and it
[11:51] Speaker 1: just feels so good.
[11:52] Speaker 3: It's all about shared experiences, it's about building that folio
[11:56] Speaker 3: of time together, right, And the thing that stands out
[11:59] Speaker 3: to me is the importance of face to face connection.
[12:04] Speaker 3: We can have all of the likes and comments on
[12:08] Speaker 3: our Insta page.
[12:09] Speaker 2: And sending the meme to somebody.
[12:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, they are not going to have the impact on
[12:15] Speaker 3: long term, strong relationships that a face to face conversation
[12:20] Speaker 3: will have and you can have that face to face
[12:22] Speaker 3: conversation once you're in a really good relationship once every year.
[12:26] Speaker 3: It's not like you have to be in each other's
[12:28] Speaker 3: pocket every day to have strong connections, but face to
[12:33] Speaker 3: face will outrun any other form of communication every day
[12:38] Speaker 3: of the week.
[12:39] Speaker 2: So they're my two big ideas.
[12:40] Speaker 1: Number one, we want to not wait initiate, and number two,
[12:45] Speaker 1: you've got to find a way to spend the hours.
[12:46] Speaker 1: You've got to find a time to get side by
[12:48] Speaker 1: side or face to face consistently, not all at once,
[12:52] Speaker 1: but over a period of days and weeks and months,
[12:54] Speaker 1: so that the relationship will build. It doesn't happen online.
[12:57] Speaker 1: It doesn't happen if you're so busy that you can't
[13:00] Speaker 1: make it happen. And if you're sitting at tennis and
[13:03] Speaker 1: the kids are whacking balls across the net at each other,
[13:05] Speaker 1: and there's another parent who is three meters away from
[13:08] Speaker 1: you at the next bench or the next table, and
[13:10] Speaker 1: you're both staring at your phone, put the phone in.
[13:13] Speaker 2: And say, hey, it looks like our kids are doing
[13:14] Speaker 2: really well with the tennis. Get the conversation going.
[13:17] Speaker 3: Can I share a quick experience before we close up.
[13:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
[13:20] Speaker 3: So a handful of years ago, I was in a really,
[13:23] Speaker 3: really dark place. I had probably spent a year in
[13:28] Speaker 3: emotional agony, I'm going to use those words, and I
[13:32] Speaker 3: hadn't spent any time connecting with anyone. And I woke
[13:35] Speaker 3: up one morning and just realized it that I didn't
[13:38] Speaker 3: want to be that person anymore. But I felt so
[13:42] Speaker 3: lost in having any kind of connection with people because
[13:48] Speaker 3: of my circumstances for that twelve months. And so I
[13:51] Speaker 3: looked around my community and there were a handful of
[13:54] Speaker 3: women that I had admired from a distance that I
[13:58] Speaker 3: just thought were absolutely stellar people and I would love
[14:02] Speaker 3: to have them in my circle of friendship. But up
[14:04] Speaker 3: until that point, I hadn't been in a position to
[14:07] Speaker 3: reach out. So I made this grand gesture and I said, Hey,
[14:12] Speaker 3: I've had a really crappy year and I would love
[14:15] Speaker 3: to go out and spend some time with good women.
[14:17] Speaker 3: I'm wondering if you'd like to come and spend some
[14:19] Speaker 3: time with me. All of those women said yes, as.
[14:23] Speaker 2: They probably all said, and I've had a pretty rough
[14:25] Speaker 2: year too.
[14:25] Speaker 3: And they did, Yeah, really they did. And we went
[14:28] Speaker 3: out that first night, and I remember just feeling like
[14:32] Speaker 3: the weight of the world had been lifted because there
[14:35] Speaker 3: were other women who, for their own reasons, had had
[14:39] Speaker 3: a really crappy year and were actually really excited that
[14:42] Speaker 3: somebody had reached out and said, hey, let's just get together.
[14:45] Speaker 3: And those friendships carried me through some really really challenging
[14:49] Speaker 3: times and just were so important in that stage of
[14:54] Speaker 3: my life. And I'm so grateful for that. But it
[14:57] Speaker 3: took me reaching out because none of those women would
[15:01] Speaker 3: have initiated either.
[15:02] Speaker 1: All Right, we hope that these ideas will spontaneously create
[15:06] Speaker 1: a whole lot less loneliness and a whole lot more
[15:09] Speaker 1: life meaning and relationship for you in your day to day.
[15:13] Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
[15:17] Speaker 1: Bridge Media, with additional assistance from Mim Hammonds.
[15:19] Speaker 2: If you'd like more.
[15:20] Speaker 1: Info to make your family happier, or to get info
[15:22] Speaker 1: about how to raise brilliant boys from the inside out,
[15:25] Speaker 1: strong young men from the inside out, pre order my
[15:27] Speaker 1: book Boys online now at Booktopia, or join the waitlist
[15:31] Speaker 1: at Happy Families dot com dot au.

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