# Sticks & Stones

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 20 May 2026, 22 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/067054c3-60d3-47d3-8e80-b44800c7248e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

What if the way we talk about “harmful words” is actually making kids more fragile? In this thought-provoking Doctor’s Desk episode, Justin Coulson and Kylie Coulson unpack brand-new research exploring whether believing words are harmful changes our resilience, mental health, and parenting. From social media comments to playground insults, this conversation dives into the uncomfortable tension between empathy and emotional toughness — and asks whether protecting kids from hard words might actually leave them less prepared for the real world. If you’ve ever wondered how to help your child cope with criticism, bullying, or hurtful comments without becoming emotionally overwhelmed, this episode is essential listening. KEY POINTS • New research reveals a strong link between believing words are harmful and lower emotional resilience • Why empathy and emotional fragility can sometimes go hand-in-hand • How “concept creep” may be expanding what we label as trauma • The hidden danger of teaching kids they’re emotionally breakable • Why resilience starts with helping children interpret words differently • The powerful parenting question: “Would you take advice from that person?” • How parents can validate feelings without reinforcing victimhood • Why difficult conversations may strengthen kids more than shielding them QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “The way we perceive words — and the weight we give them — is ultimately ours to decide.” RESOURCES • The “Words Can Harm Scale” research study by Samuel Pratt, Peyton Jones and colleagues • Watch Your Words \[Article\] • When Your Child is Bullied: A Calm, Practical Guide for Parents \[Article\] ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Teach children that feelings matter, but words do not define them • Help kids separate criticism from identity • Encourage resilience by discussing difficult social situations openly • Ask: “Would you go to that person for advice?” before taking their criticism personally • Model emotional regulation when you encounter hurtful comments yourself • Focus on building competence, connection, and autonomy at home See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will
[0:09] Speaker 1: never hurt me. I used to get that all the
[0:12] Speaker 1: time when I was a kid growing up. Did you
[0:14] Speaker 1: cop that one?
[0:15] Speaker 2: Okay, boomer, are you just giving away your age now?
[0:18] Speaker 1: Yeah? I did kind of date myself up. Does anyone
[0:20] Speaker 1: say that anymore? I have not heard it for decades.
[0:23] Speaker 2: I don't think i've heard it either.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Can words harm? That's our topic today. There's a brand
[0:27] Speaker 1: new research article out and today is a Doctor's Desk
[0:31] Speaker 1: episode where we dive into the lattice research and have
[0:33] Speaker 1: a look at how research can inform our parenting. The
[0:38] Speaker 1: Words Can Harm scale is a brand new instrument that's
[0:43] Speaker 1: been devised by Samuel Pratt, Peyton Jones and colleagues, helping
[0:48] Speaker 1: us to understand what a belief in the harm of
[0:53] Speaker 1: words does or does not do for the resilience of children,
[0:57] Speaker 1: young people, and even adults. Words harm. We discussed that
[1:02] Speaker 1: next on the Happy Families podcast. Stay with us today.
[1:08] Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families Podcast. Welcome, so good to
[1:10] Speaker 1: have you along. Thank you so very much for joining
[1:12] Speaker 1: us if you knew to the pod. Every Thursday on
[1:15] Speaker 1: the Happy Families Podcast, we talk about brand new research
[1:18] Speaker 1: research that is supposed to enlighten your mind and help
[1:21] Speaker 1: you to be a better parent. We are Justin and
[1:22] Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson were the parents, have six daughters and Kylie.
[1:26] Speaker 1: A study that's just been published captured my attention. I
[1:30] Speaker 1: saw it and I thought, oh my goodness, this is
[1:32] Speaker 1: really different. It's it's not pure parenting like we normally
[1:36] Speaker 1: talk about, but it has so much overlay into the
[1:39] Speaker 1: environment that we create for our kids. It's called the
[1:41] Speaker 1: Words Can Harm Scale, Measuring Beliefs about Harmful Speech, published
[1:47] Speaker 1: in July twenty twenty six in Personality and Individual Differences.
[1:51] Speaker 1: We will link to it in the show notes. I
[1:53] Speaker 1: know some people are saying already it's not July twenty
[1:55] Speaker 1: twenty six yet, how can I have been published? Well, it's
[1:57] Speaker 1: online first, which is how I got access to it.
[2:00] Speaker 1: So may ask you a question. We haven't prepped this.
[2:02] Speaker 1: I don't know what you're going to say. Do you
[2:04] Speaker 1: think that words can harm? Like I'm thinking before you
[2:07] Speaker 1: answer of the Inexcess song? Again, I'm dating myself here.
[2:11] Speaker 1: There's a line in their song Devil Inside that says
[2:15] Speaker 1: words are weapons sharper than knives, So are they can
[2:19] Speaker 1: they harm?
[2:21] Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of nuance there. But I
[2:23] Speaker 2: would suggest that it's not actually the words themselves, but
[2:26] Speaker 2: the weight that we put on those words that impacts
[2:31] Speaker 2: how we perceive things. Yeah.
[2:33] Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense. Because if if somebody calls me
[2:38] Speaker 1: a name with a big smile on their face and
[2:39] Speaker 1: We've just been joking around about something and I've done
[2:41] Speaker 1: something dumb, and they're somewhere close to me and trusted,
[2:43] Speaker 1: then I'm probably going to go you good one, because
[2:45] Speaker 1: they just called me a name. Whereas if somebody cuts
[2:47] Speaker 1: me off on the street and then they call me
[2:48] Speaker 1: that same name. The word, I'm going to apply a
[2:50] Speaker 1: different weight to the word. I'm going to put a
[2:53] Speaker 1: whole lot of different meaning behind it.
[2:54] Speaker 2: You Yeah. Yeah. We were talking with the kids the
[2:56] Speaker 2: other night and they asked us about a word and
[2:58] Speaker 2: we don't say that word and they said, well, how
[3:01] Speaker 2: come because it really just means this, and I said, yeah, Unfortunately,
[3:05] Speaker 2: other people have put another connotation onto it, and so
[3:07] Speaker 2: when you say that word, most people don't think of that,
[3:10] Speaker 2: they think of another thing, And so I think that
[3:13] Speaker 2: that plays a part. I also think the relationship that
[3:16] Speaker 2: exists between two people impacts the way we receive words. Yeah,
[3:21] Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of nuance behind it.
[3:22] Speaker 1: So here's the background. American researchers, what in a measure?
[3:26] Speaker 1: I think that's a really slippery idea and it's also
[3:28] Speaker 1: really contentious. It's not can woods cause lasting psychological harm?
[3:32] Speaker 1: We know that they can, but is there something in
[3:36] Speaker 1: our value system? Is there something in our framing the
[3:38] Speaker 1: way that we view the world. Like about a week
[3:41] Speaker 1: and a half ago, we did that podcast episode where
[3:43] Speaker 1: we talked about how we have these limiting beliefs and
[3:47] Speaker 1: we apply a filter on everything that happens to us.
[3:49] Speaker 1: So they're essentially saying, depending on the filter that you have,
[3:52] Speaker 1: is it true or untrue that woods can and do
[3:55] Speaker 1: cause lasting harm?
[3:57] Speaker 2: So I think about unequal relationships. You think about it
[4:00] Speaker 2: child versus an adult, and you spend all of your
[4:04] Speaker 2: child's life calling them names and belittling them, they were.
[4:08] Speaker 1: Goes into their heart and mind.
[4:09] Speaker 2: Right, this absolutely shapes their world as opposed to two
[4:14] Speaker 2: equal adults who get to make a decision on what
[4:18] Speaker 2: those words mean.
[4:19] Speaker 1: So let me run through a couple of the questionnaire items,
[4:22] Speaker 1: and you tell me whether whether you think that these
[4:27] Speaker 1: are true or not, or to the degree to which
[4:29] Speaker 1: you agree with them. Okay. So one is I totally disagree,
[4:31] Speaker 1: and five is I completely agree, and three is I'm neutral?
[4:35] Speaker 2: Again? Are you asking me to agree for me personally? Yes,
[4:38] Speaker 2: for the world at last.
[4:39] Speaker 1: Now I'm asking you to divulge to share. I'll do
[4:42] Speaker 1: the same if you want. Here's the first one. I
[4:44] Speaker 1: could be left emotionally scarred by something I read, Well,
[4:47] Speaker 1: I could be Okay, So remember the sense of which
[4:50] Speaker 1: you agree with this, right, So the idea.
[4:53] Speaker 2: Of I choose to be emotionally scarred. Well, ultimately, that's
[4:57] Speaker 2: what it comes down to. I make a choice.
[4:58] Speaker 1: You're thinking about this too hard. You do a psychology survey.
[5:02] Speaker 1: You just say the first thing that comes to mind
[5:03] Speaker 1: that knows thrue for you. Okay. So you're saying one
[5:06] Speaker 1: one out of five do you completely disagree? Oh?
[5:09] Speaker 2: Am I, I've got to give you a scale.
[5:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I said to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[5:13] Speaker 1: Maybe we should do more prep for these podcast episodes.
[5:16] Speaker 1: I thought this was so self explanatory. One to five,
[5:19] Speaker 1: where one is completely disagree with the statement and five
[5:21] Speaker 1: is I completely agree with the statement. Okay, I'll go
[5:23] Speaker 1: to yeah two Okay, so I'm going to go with
[5:25] Speaker 1: the one on that one? What about this one? I
[5:27] Speaker 1: could be traumatized without ever being touched, just through someone's
[5:30] Speaker 1: hurtful words.
[5:32] Speaker 2: Four.
[5:33] Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so I'm going to go with like A one.
[5:35] Speaker 1: Maybe you two. If I'm being generous there for me,
[5:39] Speaker 1: most things of water off a duck's back. Right. It's
[5:41] Speaker 1: just if that's what you think that then you're the
[5:43] Speaker 1: one who has to live with I don't actually have to. Yeah,
[5:46] Speaker 1: but again, I look at it free in your space.
[5:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, but if it's your mom or your dad and
[5:51] Speaker 2: they've said something to you, or it's a total stranger
[5:54] Speaker 2: down the street. Again, the weight that those words is
[5:59] Speaker 2: an it, Harry is dependent on relationship.
[6:01] Speaker 1: Here's the next one. Exposing someone to a triggering idea
[6:03] Speaker 1: can seriously damage their mental health.
[6:06] Speaker 2: One.
[6:07] Speaker 1: I should be careful about what I say is it
[6:09] Speaker 1: could permanently damage someone's emotional health.
[6:12] Speaker 2: Three This is hard.
[6:15] Speaker 1: Even as simple phrase can be emotionally traumatizing for someone vulnerable.
[6:19] Speaker 2: Well, someone vulnerable would say five.
[6:21] Speaker 1: But I'm not asking someone vulnerable. I'm asking you whether
[6:23] Speaker 1: you agree with this or not. Here's the last one
[6:27] Speaker 1: we'll do. There is great power in the words we
[6:28] Speaker 1: choose either to heal others or to permanently harm them.
[6:31] Speaker 2: Oh, this is just awful. I'm going to say five.
[6:35] Speaker 1: You've gone from we started this and you're like not
[6:39] Speaker 1: at all, words don't hurt, and you've finished this saying
[6:42] Speaker 1: there could be permanent, lifelong damage if somebody says they.
[6:46] Speaker 2: Put weight on it. Okay, I don't want to be
[6:48] Speaker 2: that person.
[6:50] Speaker 1: So again, you're highlighting the weight that a person might
[6:52] Speaker 1: put on the much you're applying the filter. And this
[6:56] Speaker 1: is a question about what you believe, not what other
[6:58] Speaker 1: people believe. And this is why these studies are so
[7:01] Speaker 1: fascinating and so important.
[7:03] Speaker 2: I'm really struggling to put this into context because if
[7:05] Speaker 2: you're asking me, I am asking you, but I'm thinking
[7:10] Speaker 2: about other people as I'm answering. It's really hard to
[7:13] Speaker 2: separate myself from other people.
[7:15] Speaker 1: So I am as well as I'm asking the questions.
[7:17] Speaker 1: I'm thinking. I know people who I'm going to use
[7:19] Speaker 1: the term fragile, I'm not using in a denigrading or
[7:21] Speaker 1: derogatory way or in yeah, they've had.
[7:23] Speaker 2: Really difficult life circumstances that have left them feeling really tender, fragile.
[7:31] Speaker 1: And therefore they have felt like they have been permanently
[7:33] Speaker 1: harmed because I know that I've said things that have
[7:36] Speaker 1: left people feeling that way. It actually feels quite awful.
[7:39] Speaker 1: But I'm also thinking about it because the filter that
[7:43] Speaker 1: I have is that words don't harm. That's what we
[7:45] Speaker 1: think about the words later that causes the harm. That's
[7:47] Speaker 1: exactly right, But that's the filter that I have. Therefore,
[7:50] Speaker 1: this is why people will say when I give my
[7:53] Speaker 1: presentations that sometimes I can be a little direct. I
[7:55] Speaker 1: can sometimes trample on the sensitivities of other people. I
[7:58] Speaker 1: don't mean to, but I kind of think I just
[8:00] Speaker 1: giving you really good information here. What you do with
[8:01] Speaker 1: it is going to be up to you. But some
[8:03] Speaker 1: people will internalize it, they'll carry it with them. They'll say,
[8:06] Speaker 1: I can't ever go and listen to Justin Causon speak
[8:09] Speaker 1: again because he said that really harmful thing that paralyzed me,
[8:13] Speaker 1: that traumatized me, that made me feel unsafe.
[8:17] Speaker 2: I think that everyone will have been in an experience
[8:19] Speaker 2: where you've been in a conversation with a group of
[8:21] Speaker 2: people and someone has said something and ninety five percent
[8:25] Speaker 2: of you are kind of like, yeah, I agree, and
[8:27] Speaker 2: then one person is completely mortified, emotionally distraught, and really
[8:33] Speaker 2: really upset by what's being shared. And that goes back
[8:37] Speaker 2: to that original conversation that we started with. It comes
[8:40] Speaker 2: down to the weight that I choose to put on
[8:42] Speaker 2: put on those words. So you put me on the spot,
[8:45] Speaker 2: and it was really hard to separate because if it
[8:48] Speaker 2: was me, after learning all the things that I've learned,
[8:52] Speaker 2: I'm responsible. I'm the one who's responsible for how I
[8:56] Speaker 2: respond and how I perceive the words that are coming
[8:59] Speaker 2: at me to decide. But my experience with other people
[9:03] Speaker 2: is that it's not that easy. So what did they
[9:06] Speaker 2: actually find?
[9:08] Speaker 1: First of all, the scale was very, very robust, really
[9:12] Speaker 1: reliable over time, really what we call internally consistent, which
[9:16] Speaker 1: means that when you answer one way with one thing,
[9:19] Speaker 1: you generally answer the same way with all of the things.
[9:21] Speaker 1: Of course, you were a little bit different there because
[9:23] Speaker 1: of the way that you were doing that. And it
[9:25] Speaker 1: was also meaningfully connected to a whole cluster of other
[9:27] Speaker 1: traits and attributes, which was really interesting.
[9:30] Speaker 2: Maybe I have multiple personalities.
[9:33] Speaker 1: You might know who scored really high on this girls women, yes, yes,
[9:39] Speaker 1: but it wasn't just females. It was people who believe
[9:42] Speaker 1: that woods cause serious harm tend to be younger female
[9:46] Speaker 1: and more politically liberal, whereas we're auty the old men.
[9:51] Speaker 1: It's just like tough enough, right, that's kind of the idea.
[9:55] Speaker 2: I watched this at the dinner table when we have
[9:57] Speaker 2: all of our kids over and we have our son
[9:59] Speaker 2: in law, and outside of you, he's the only other
[10:02] Speaker 2: male influence we've had in the home for a really
[10:04] Speaker 2: long time, and every now and again he just kind
[10:08] Speaker 2: of shuts everything down really fast, really hard, very concise,
[10:12] Speaker 2: and the girls will kind of.
[10:14] Speaker 1: Feelings be damn, yeah, yeah.
[10:16] Speaker 2: And he's not actually being unkind, it's just that's just
[10:20] Speaker 2: how he sees it. Whereas as women, we're constantly worried
[10:23] Speaker 2: about how other people are going to perceive us, how
[10:26] Speaker 2: they're going to respond, whether or not we're going to
[10:29] Speaker 2: upset them. So I can see how that plays out.
[10:33] Speaker 1: So the researchers also found that those people who scored
[10:35] Speaker 1: really highly on the words can harm scale more likely
[10:39] Speaker 1: to support trigger warnings, safe spaces, and restrictions on controversial speech.
[10:45] Speaker 1: They also score higher on empathy, and they score higher
[10:48] Speaker 1: on intellectual humility, but they also score higher on something
[10:53] Speaker 1: called moral grand standing and a tendency to see themselves
[10:56] Speaker 1: as victims, So I thought that was really really interesting.
[10:59] Speaker 1: Now the uncomfortable and most fascinating part of all of this,
[11:03] Speaker 1: they also report significantly worse mental health. So they're more
[11:08] Speaker 1: likely to experience anxiety, depression, less resilience, and more emotional disregulation,
[11:15] Speaker 1: which I find really really curious. So after break, what
[11:20] Speaker 1: I want to talk about Before we get the break? Quickly,
[11:23] Speaker 1: the researchers themselves said this, let's not draw causal conclusions.
[11:27] Speaker 1: It's correlational data. But there's three possibilities for why these
[11:31] Speaker 1: results are there. As you've already said, people who have
[11:33] Speaker 1: been genuinely feel like they've been harmed by speech. They
[11:37] Speaker 1: develop it through experience. That is, this person said this,
[11:39] Speaker 1: this person said this, this happened over here. I'm now
[11:42] Speaker 1: carrying the burden of that. I can't let it go,
[11:44] Speaker 1: so that becomes the filter through which they see the world.
[11:47] Speaker 1: Because they haven't processed it effectively and been able to
[11:49] Speaker 1: move on, it's really gotten into their psyche. Secondly, they've
[11:53] Speaker 1: said maybe it's actually the belief itself that makes people
[11:55] Speaker 1: more psychologically fragile, Like if I believe that words can harm,
[11:58] Speaker 1: then I'm going to be a more fragile person. And
[12:00] Speaker 1: the third thing that they introduced as an idea is
[12:03] Speaker 1: that there might be some other variable like just not
[12:06] Speaker 1: being a very resilient person or being a highly neurotic
[12:08] Speaker 1: person that could drive both. Realistically, it's probably a combination
[12:11] Speaker 1: of all three. So after the break, even though we've
[12:13] Speaker 1: spent way too long on the study itself, isn't science fun?
[12:17] Speaker 1: Isn't the science great? After the break, we're going to
[12:18] Speaker 1: talk about what it means for us as parents raising
[12:21] Speaker 1: kids and an environment where they're consistently being told that
[12:24] Speaker 1: words can harm, and how we can help them to
[12:27] Speaker 1: be resilient in the face of words that can sometimes,
[12:31] Speaker 1: if not harm, certainly hurt. Where back it's the Happy
[12:41] Speaker 1: Families podcast talking about the Words Can Harm scale, which
[12:44] Speaker 1: will link to in the show notes, a brand new
[12:46] Speaker 1: research instrument looking at how the filt that we put
[12:49] Speaker 1: on the words that we hear might affect our resilience
[12:52] Speaker 1: or our children's resilience. I think that there's a whole
[12:55] Speaker 1: lot here, Kylie, that is impactful on the way we
[12:57] Speaker 1: raise kids to be really resilient and avoid anxiety and
[13:01] Speaker 1: depression and so many of the mental health challenges that
[13:03] Speaker 1: we're seeing.
[13:04] Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to minimize your chatter.
[13:07] Speaker 1: Right here, You're going to minimize We're going.
[13:09] Speaker 2: To minimize your chatter. Because we could talk about this
[13:11] Speaker 2: all day, the sounds of it. What are your top
[13:14] Speaker 2: three things that are going to help parents the most?
[13:16] Speaker 1: You're so funny, all right?
[13:18] Speaker 2: So and no achieving?
[13:20] Speaker 1: You know how what you've been by adding extras in? Yes, yeah,
[13:24] Speaker 1: you know how. I'm always banging on about those basic
[13:26] Speaker 1: psychological needs competence relatedness, autonomy, a feeling that I'm in
[13:30] Speaker 1: control of my life, a feeling that I'm capable of
[13:32] Speaker 1: doing stuff, and a feeling that I've got a strong
[13:34] Speaker 1: sense of connection. I feel as though if children feel
[13:39] Speaker 1: like they can handle what the world throws at them,
[13:41] Speaker 1: they're going to be more resilient. Right. That's something that
[13:43] Speaker 1: I am teaching day in and day out. And so
[13:46] Speaker 1: when we signal to kids, whether it's implicit or explicit,
[13:48] Speaker 1: whether we're saying to them, if we say certain words
[13:52] Speaker 1: or ideas are so powerful that they might break them,
[13:55] Speaker 1: what we're doing is we're communicating fragility rather than capability
[13:59] Speaker 1: or capacity. We're essentially saying, like I started the podcast,
[14:04] Speaker 1: six and stones may break my bones, but words will
[14:06] Speaker 1: never hurt me. We're saying the opposite. We're saying words
[14:10] Speaker 1: become your reality, and words can harm you, and so
[14:12] Speaker 1: you need to be careful that you're not surrounding yourself
[14:14] Speaker 1: with words that are harmful. And I think there's also
[14:19] Speaker 1: just I guess there's part B because I'm not allowed
[14:22] Speaker 1: to cheat. There's an idea called concept creep, and I
[14:28] Speaker 1: think that it really applies here. The researchers talked about it.
[14:31] Speaker 1: They said there's a tendency for definitions of harm to
[14:34] Speaker 1: expand over time, so that more and more experiences get
[14:39] Speaker 1: categorized as potentially traumatic. So when post traumatic stress disorder
[14:43] Speaker 1: was first discussed back in the seventies, brighter that was
[14:47] Speaker 1: called shell shock after World War Two. It was a
[14:50] Speaker 1: very very clear definition, and people only experience post traumatic
[14:54] Speaker 1: stress disorder if they'd been in horrific things. And we've
[15:00] Speaker 1: allowed concept creep too, because we want to be compassionate
[15:03] Speaker 1: and empathic for people who have been through things that
[15:05] Speaker 1: aren't quite as terrific. But it's still horrible, and I'm
[15:07] Speaker 1: not downplaying the horrible horribleness of them at all. But
[15:10] Speaker 1: what happens is that the word trauma begins to encapsulate
[15:13] Speaker 1: more and more and more and more, and so I
[15:16] Speaker 1: think that there's genuine debate about whether it's good to
[15:19] Speaker 1: raise important awareness or if we're lowering children's threshold for distress.
[15:24] Speaker 1: And I think the data in this study seems to
[15:27] Speaker 1: suggest that we are actually lowering children's threshold for coping
[15:30] Speaker 1: with distress. We are making them less resilient because the
[15:34] Speaker 1: childhood grows up hearing that kind of language could really
[15:37] Speaker 1: damage you. They're literally being handed a framework that makes
[15:41] Speaker 1: them a potential victim in kind of any rude or
[15:46] Speaker 1: uncomfortable or slightly distressing encounter. And I know how bad
[15:51] Speaker 1: and rough that sounds when I'm saying it, but the
[15:54] Speaker 1: reality is that's the filter, and therefore it becomes a
[15:58] Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy.
[16:00] Speaker 2: I think so often the hurtful words that come at us,
[16:04] Speaker 2: especially in today's day and age, with social media being
[16:07] Speaker 2: such a huge part of our kids' lives. So often
[16:11] Speaker 2: the things that come to us that have I guess
[16:14] Speaker 2: negative connotation to them are generally speaking from people we
[16:18] Speaker 2: don't even know. Yeah, yeah, And I remember hearing a
[16:22] Speaker 2: podcast once. I can't remember the origin of it, but
[16:24] Speaker 2: it was just the acknowledgment. If you would not ask
[16:27] Speaker 2: for advice from that person.
[16:28] Speaker 1: Why would you take their criticism?
[16:29] Speaker 2: Why would you take their criticism? Why would you let
[16:31] Speaker 2: that impact you? And that has had a really really
[16:34] Speaker 2: profound impact on me. And when our kids come home
[16:37] Speaker 2: and they talk to us about different things that have happened,
[16:39] Speaker 2: I literally just remind them. I'm like, so, would you
[16:42] Speaker 2: actually go to that person if you're in trouble? Would
[16:44] Speaker 2: you ask them for you for the how or their opinion?
[16:49] Speaker 1: I should just highlight here this doesn't mean that words
[16:51] Speaker 1: don't matter like words do matter. The question is that
[16:56] Speaker 1: there's a really big difference between words that are cruel
[16:58] Speaker 1: and unkind, nasty and the belief that words can permanently
[17:03] Speaker 1: harm you. And you would have noted when I went
[17:05] Speaker 1: through those questions our items, they were very much saying words,
[17:07] Speaker 1: these words will permanently cause harm, trauma, damage. And the
[17:11] Speaker 1: reason they put the word permanently in is because all
[17:14] Speaker 1: of us walk away from an unkind encounter smarting, all
[17:18] Speaker 1: of us walk away wincing and going gosh, that was horrible.
[17:22] Speaker 2: Isn't it interesting though, that if you are in a
[17:24] Speaker 2: position where you are striving for growth and learning, that
[17:29] Speaker 2: you can look back on a situation years later and
[17:32] Speaker 2: see it so differently.
[17:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you absolutely can. There are simire things that
[17:37] Speaker 1: I want to run through when we're out of time,
[17:39] Speaker 1: So can I run through them really fast? I promise
[17:41] Speaker 1: e'lly quick. One of the things that really stood out
[17:43] Speaker 1: to me is that empthy people who are high on
[17:45] Speaker 1: empathy scored high on the words can harm scale. So
[17:48] Speaker 1: that's that's a plus, Like, we don't want to downplay empathy,
[17:53] Speaker 1: and you would struggling with the questionnaire items because you
[17:56] Speaker 1: have high levels of empathy, whereas for me, I'm I
[18:00] Speaker 1: have less empathic. I care a great deal about people,
[18:03] Speaker 1: but I kind of don't get caught up and all
[18:05] Speaker 1: this stuff. I just have that little bit less empathy,
[18:08] Speaker 1: I guess, And so for me it's much easy to
[18:10] Speaker 1: say one to one one to that kind of thing,
[18:12] Speaker 1: whereas you're kind of like, oh, but how they feeling?
[18:15] Speaker 1: But I also I think it's worth highlighting. The same
[18:18] Speaker 1: people also score higher on moral grand standing and interpersonal victimhood,
[18:24] Speaker 1: which means that concerned from other people's feelings can kind
[18:28] Speaker 1: of tip into an identity that's built around sensitivity and harm.
[18:31] Speaker 1: And I don't think that's helpful. We want we want
[18:35] Speaker 1: to help kids to feel with others, not just for them.
[18:39] Speaker 1: Like feeling with someone means that you're sitting in that
[18:42] Speaker 1: discomfort with them, and that requires resilience. Feeling for someone
[18:46] Speaker 1: can collapse into avoidance because I need to protect you,
[18:49] Speaker 1: or I need to protect myself, or it just means
[18:51] Speaker 1: that I click every social campaign online so that I
[18:55] Speaker 1: can say that I'm standing with this person and that
[18:57] Speaker 1: person everyone else. I don't think that's helpful for values.
[19:01] Speaker 1: And the last one that I'm going to mention is
[19:02] Speaker 1: that the paper asks this question. It basically says, does
[19:05] Speaker 1: shielding people from difficult words and ideas protect them or
[19:08] Speaker 1: does it prime them for more distress when contact with
[19:11] Speaker 1: those words is inevitable? And I think the research here,
[19:15] Speaker 1: specifically the research on anxiety sensitivity, which correlates really highly
[19:19] Speaker 1: with the words can harm scale. It tells us that
[19:23] Speaker 1: anxiety sensitivity is the fear of anxiety itself. That is,
[19:27] Speaker 1: it's a belief that feeling anxious is dangerous, and that's
[19:30] Speaker 1: been scientifically shown it just amplifies anxiety disorders. So I
[19:37] Speaker 1: think the take home message is really simple, very much
[19:40] Speaker 1: contested territory Some see the expansion of harm awareness as
[19:46] Speaker 1: an overdue recognition that people really are suffering, and others
[19:51] Speaker 1: see it as a driver of fragility. Both are probably
[19:54] Speaker 1: partly right. I definitely lean in one direction more than
[19:57] Speaker 1: the other, but in fairness, both are probably partly right.
[20:02] Speaker 1: What we need to do as parents, though, is take
[20:06] Speaker 1: language seriously, but build kids who aren't at the mercy
[20:11] Speaker 1: of that language.
[20:13] Speaker 2: For me, it's actually really important for them to recognize
[20:17] Speaker 2: that the way they perceive the words is actually on them.
[20:22] Speaker 2: They get to decide and determine the weight of those words.
[20:27] Speaker 2: That's theirs. So when I have an interaction with somebody
[20:31] Speaker 2: that leaves me feeling troubled and hurt. While it would
[20:35] Speaker 2: be lovely to think in a perfect world that people
[20:38] Speaker 2: would say nice things all the time, how I respond
[20:41] Speaker 2: to that is mine. That's mine. And if I want
[20:45] Speaker 2: to carry that baggage of hurt and anger around for
[20:47] Speaker 2: twenty years, that's on me. That has nothing to do
[20:51] Speaker 2: with the person who said the words. Yeah.
[20:53] Speaker 1: Yeah. But we've got to help our children and people
[20:55] Speaker 1: generally to be able to process this stuff so that
[20:59] Speaker 1: they're not carrying it, because that's a heavy load to
[21:00] Speaker 1: carry for five minutes, let alone twenty five years.
[21:04] Speaker 2: But so many of us choose right, we choose it,
[21:07] Speaker 2: we choose to carry it.
[21:08] Speaker 1: Maybe we should do another episode on how to let
[21:10] Speaker 1: go of that sort of stuff. It's sometimes required some
[21:13] Speaker 1: really hard work, especially when somebody close, somebody that you trusted,
[21:17] Speaker 1: who's hurt you. The study will be linked in the
[21:19] Speaker 1: show notes. Hopefully there's a bunch of ideas in here
[21:21] Speaker 1: to get you talking to the kids around the table
[21:24] Speaker 1: about whether words can harm or not. The Famili's podcast
[21:28] Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rulant from Bridge. Medium Happens provides
[21:31] Speaker 1: our admin and other support for more information about making
[21:34] Speaker 1: your family happier visitors at happy families dot com dot
[21:36] Speaker 1: au

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.