# The Learning Zone That Builds Unstoppable Kids

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 18 Feb 2026, 15 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/1d2903f0-51ef-4343-a46f-b3ea017e2962/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

When your child says “I can’t do this” and wants to quit right now… what do you do? Whether it’s maths, piano, friendships, or riding a bike, kids hit the wall. They avoid. They melt down. They take their bat and ball and go home. But what if that uncomfortable moment isn’t failure… it’s the doorway to growth? In this episode, we unpack the powerful reframe that helps kids push through frustration, build resilience, and experience real progress — without shame, pressure, or lectures. This one shift changes everything. KEY POINTS • Why avoidance feels good — and why it holds kids back • The two dimensions of emotion and what they mean for learning • The “Learning Zone” reframe that transforms frustration • Why purpose matters more than pressure • The three drivers of motivation: relationships, choice, and competence • Why discomfort is often the signal that growth is about to happen • When pushing through is healthy — and when it’s not QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Discomfort isn’t the enemy. It’s the signal that growth is about to happen.” RESOURCES MENTIONED • Man's Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Check relevance first – Does this challenge actually matter? • Name the Learning Zone – Help your child recognise discomfort as growth. • Strengthen connection – Struggle feels heavier when kids feel alone. • Support competence – Break tasks into smaller wins. • Focus on purpose – A strong “why” makes the “how” bearable. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcasts. Kids struggling, not
[0:10] Speaker 1: feeling resilient, feeling like maths is the worst, or the
[0:13] Speaker 1: piano is unfair, or that new thing that you want
[0:17] Speaker 1: them to learn is too hard. Today we're talking about resilience.
[0:20] Speaker 1: We're talking about pushing through. We're talking about how to
[0:23] Speaker 1: get kids gaining momentum, experiencing progress when they just want
[0:28] Speaker 1: to quit, and they want to quit right now. It's
[0:30] Speaker 1: a dummy spirit. It's toways out of the cot. I'm
[0:32] Speaker 1: taking my bat and ball. I'm going home. It's my
[0:34] Speaker 1: math's teacher is dumb. They didn't teach me. And why
[0:36] Speaker 1: do I have to learn this anyway? How do we
[0:38] Speaker 1: deal with the I hate this? Why do I have
[0:40] Speaker 1: to do it? I can't do it? Response to children
[0:44] Speaker 1: when they don't want to do stuff. That's what we're
[0:46] Speaker 1: talking about today on the pod. Stay with us, Hi,
[0:50] Speaker 1: Welcome the Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every single day.
[0:53] Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin
[0:57] Speaker 1: and Kylie Cousen. Were the parents have six children who
[0:59] Speaker 1: have all been reluctant to do things at one time
[1:01] Speaker 1: or another, and who have all quit things at one
[1:03] Speaker 1: time or another because sometimes life feels hard. Today we're
[1:08] Speaker 1: talking about how to push them through. And Kylie, I'm
[1:11] Speaker 1: going to start with some scientific stuff. So buckle in.
[1:15] Speaker 1: Emotions exist on two dimensions. We've talked about this on
[1:17] Speaker 1: the plot before. There's the energy dimension and there's the
[1:19] Speaker 1: pleasantness dimension. So you can have a high energy, high
[1:22] Speaker 1: pleasant emotion like happiness, and we can have a low pleasantness,
[1:27] Speaker 1: high energy emotion like anger. Then we have our low energy,
[1:32] Speaker 1: low pleasant emotions like sadness, right, and then we've got
[1:35] Speaker 1: our low energy highly pleasant emotions. Well come yeah, feeling
[1:39] Speaker 1: blissed out?
[1:40] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[1:40] Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be nice when the kids are sitting down
[1:43] Speaker 1: to do something and they decide that it's tricky, I'd say,
[1:47] Speaker 1: you know what, this is tricky, and what a great
[1:50] Speaker 1: opportunity for me to learn, What a great opportunity for
[1:52] Speaker 1: me to develop. I can let's find some bliss. I
[1:54] Speaker 1: can feel progress on the horizon, said no, child, ever,
[1:58] Speaker 1: so you know it and I in fact, this has
[2:01] Speaker 1: just happened for us. In the last day or so.
[2:02] Speaker 1: Emily hasn't wanted to do her lessons for homeschool. She's
[2:06] Speaker 1: come out to the park just down the road from us,
[2:10] Speaker 1: and grabbed some big sticks and then she got your
[2:13] Speaker 1: craft knife blunted it, trying to turn the sticks into spears.
[2:18] Speaker 1: Because living in the world, you'd rather do.
[2:20] Speaker 2: That for an hour and a half than sit down
[2:21] Speaker 2: and do a couple of mass lessons.
[2:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, living in the woods would be so much easier.
[2:24] Speaker 1: Catching turtles and rabbits would be so much easy.
[2:28] Speaker 2: So here's the thing, don't need mass to catch a rabbit.
[2:31] Speaker 2: Be very voy quiet, I'm hunting rabbits.
[2:36] Speaker 1: Typical response when a child feels like they can't do
[2:39] Speaker 1: something or don't want to do something because they don't
[2:40] Speaker 1: see the relevance in it.
[2:42] Speaker 2: I can't do this, it's too Yeah.
[2:45] Speaker 1: So avoidance, right, and avoidance is reinforcing. It feels really
[2:48] Speaker 1: pleasant if you think about doing the task that's unpleasant,
[2:52] Speaker 1: but avoiding it that's really nice. And that's what our
[2:55] Speaker 1: kids do. And that's what Emily's been doing. She's been
[2:57] Speaker 1: whittling this wood and blunting your knife for I don't
[3:00] Speaker 1: know how long. She made so much mess all over
[3:02] Speaker 1: the area that I try to keep clean.
[3:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, but you say it like it's just our kids.
[3:06] Speaker 2: We all do it, right, yes, yeah, Like what do
[3:09] Speaker 2: you do? What do you avoid?
[3:10] Speaker 1: I avoid avoidance? Oh, yes, I avoid avoidance. I actually
[3:14] Speaker 1: I've just taken it down. But I had a big
[3:16] Speaker 1: sign right above my life.
[3:17] Speaker 2: Why did you take it down?
[3:18] Speaker 1: Because I don't need it anymore. But it said do
[3:19] Speaker 1: the work because I was avoiding the work. I had
[3:23] Speaker 1: it up there when I was writing my book because
[3:25] Speaker 1: I was just so done with writing the book. Anyway,
[3:27] Speaker 1: So kids try to get out of the situation. They
[3:29] Speaker 1: try to avoid the situation as much as they can.
[3:32] Speaker 1: And here's the reframe. This is what today's podcast is
[3:34] Speaker 1: really about. That unpleasant zone, that high energy, sometimes low energy,
[3:39] Speaker 1: but generally it's a high energy. Unpleasant zone is not
[3:42] Speaker 1: the enemy. When you're trying to say I can't do it,
[3:45] Speaker 1: it's too hard, this is the worst. What's the point.
[3:47] Speaker 1: There's no relevance. I don't see why I have to
[3:48] Speaker 1: do this. When they're doing that, when they're trying to
[3:50] Speaker 1: avoid and they're in that unpleasant energy zone, when the
[3:54] Speaker 1: when the emotion is awful, that's actually not the enemy.
[3:58] Speaker 1: That's where powerful real learning gets to happen. If we
[4:02] Speaker 1: can reframe it. Now, Please don't misunderstand me. You can
[4:06] Speaker 1: learn when you're feeling pleasant. Learning doesn't have to be
[4:08] Speaker 1: pain and suffering and misery and torture. I hope not no,
[4:11] Speaker 1: but but but but but but you think about your
[4:14] Speaker 1: biggest breakthroughs, your biggest learnings, your biggest insights, Most of
[4:17] Speaker 1: them come through struggle.
[4:19] Speaker 2: Of course.
[4:20] Speaker 1: So the argument that I want to make today in
[4:22] Speaker 1: the pod is, how do we help our children to
[4:25] Speaker 1: recognize that when they're struggling with maths or piano, or
[4:28] Speaker 1: with science or within English essay, or with whatever it
[4:30] Speaker 1: is that they're struggling with, that they are on the
[4:33] Speaker 1: cusp of learning, and that learning is exciting if they
[4:35] Speaker 1: can just figure out how to sit there and push
[4:37] Speaker 1: through that unbearable unpleasantness, because once they can make that shift,
[4:42] Speaker 1: the unpleasantness stops being unpleasant.
[4:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think motivation plays a really big part
[4:48] Speaker 2: in that.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about what motivates three things. Number one,
[4:51] Speaker 1: good relationships. Number two, choosing to do it. Number three
[4:54] Speaker 1: feeling competent. So when a child's saying I can't do
[4:57] Speaker 1: it number one, the relationship's rupturing because they feel loone.
[5:00] Speaker 1: Number two, they feel incompetent and stupid. Number three they're
[5:03] Speaker 1: doing something that they would probably not choose to do
[5:05] Speaker 1: if they didn't have to. Yeah, which makes the things
[5:09] Speaker 1: to be really tricky. So one of my favorite stories
[5:12] Speaker 1: that I have shared far too many times, but I'm
[5:14] Speaker 1: going to share it again because the lesson in this
[5:15] Speaker 1: is just so profound. As a cyclist, I've learned that
[5:19] Speaker 1: you've got to love the hills because the hills make
[5:20] Speaker 1: you strong. And as a student who failed school early
[5:24] Speaker 1: in life and then went on to absolutely thrive at
[5:27] Speaker 1: university later in life, that idea just resonates so strongly.
[5:32] Speaker 1: You've got to love the hills because the hills make
[5:33] Speaker 1: you strong.
[5:34] Speaker 2: So my question to you, though, is are we asking
[5:39] Speaker 2: or expecting more of our children than is developmentally appropriate?
[5:43] Speaker 2: Considering your experience was it wasn't until you were an
[5:46] Speaker 2: adult that you found your love for learning.
[5:51] Speaker 1: So two things. Number One, schools beat love of learning
[5:54] Speaker 1: out of kids, right. And I'm not beating up on
[5:56] Speaker 1: teachers here, although some some actually do do this and
[5:58] Speaker 1: it's a problem, but many are really really engaged, great
[6:01] Speaker 1: teachers who are trying their hardest, and some kids are
[6:03] Speaker 1: just like mah. But a student is at school and
[6:06] Speaker 1: they don't feel a sense of closeness and a relationship
[6:08] Speaker 1: and belonging. If a student feels endlessly incompetent, and if
[6:11] Speaker 1: students just going, what's the point, what's the purpose? I'm
[6:13] Speaker 1: not choosing to be here at all. This makes no
[6:15] Speaker 1: sense to me. Then, no matter what the teacher does,
[6:18] Speaker 1: this is going to be a really tough uphill battle.
[6:20] Speaker 1: Students have got to see the purpose. It's got to
[6:22] Speaker 1: be relevant. That matters more than anything. Otherwise they're just
[6:26] Speaker 1: not going to do it. And they've got to have
[6:27] Speaker 1: the relationships, then the desire to get better. So for me,
[6:32] Speaker 1: I didn't have that until I was older, and that mattered.
[6:36] Speaker 1: We can make schooling so that it does feel good
[6:38] Speaker 1: and therefore people don't have to go through what I
[6:39] Speaker 1: went through to say this is worthwhile. But what I
[6:44] Speaker 1: really want to size is this learning zone or this
[6:46] Speaker 1: zone that we're in, this unpleasant zone. I want to
[6:48] Speaker 1: call it a learning zone because if we can call
[6:51] Speaker 1: it a learning zone, what we're doing is we're reframing
[6:53] Speaker 1: it for our kids. And what we're saying is, oh,
[6:56] Speaker 1: so this is the learning zone. So you don't have
[6:57] Speaker 1: to have a dummy spit, you don't have to take
[7:00] Speaker 1: your bat and ball and go home. This is a signal.
[7:03] Speaker 1: This discomfort, this unpleasantness, this is a signal that growth
[7:07] Speaker 1: is happening, or that it's about to happen. And the
[7:10] Speaker 1: longer your child can stay in the learning zone, the
[7:13] Speaker 1: more they're going to learn. Simple case in point, learning
[7:16] Speaker 1: to ride a bike. I mean, I know I talked
[7:18] Speaker 1: about you've got to love the hills because the hills
[7:19] Speaker 1: make you strong. But let's go back to when you
[7:21] Speaker 1: were teaching your child to ride a bike. They're wobbly,
[7:25] Speaker 1: they're getting frustrated, they fall off, maybe they even get
[7:29] Speaker 1: a hurty knee and they bleed a little bit. That's
[7:31] Speaker 1: all high energy, and it's all highly unpleasant as well.
[7:35] Speaker 1: But if you can get them to stay in that
[7:37] Speaker 1: learning zone for long enough, they have that breakthrough. And
[7:41] Speaker 1: now that you've taught them to ride a bike, they're
[7:43] Speaker 1: flying down the street. They've got the wind in their hair.
[7:46] Speaker 1: No they don't, they're wearing a helmet, but they've got
[7:48] Speaker 1: the wind going through their helmet. They've got a big
[7:50] Speaker 1: smile on their face. And it's the same whether it's
[7:53] Speaker 1: making friends or learning fractions, or figuring out how to
[7:55] Speaker 1: write an essay or tying shoelacers. These can all feel
[7:59] Speaker 1: unpleas but by sitting in that learning zone for as
[8:03] Speaker 1: long as possible, that's how we grow. So after the break,
[8:06] Speaker 1: I want to talk about how we can help our
[8:08] Speaker 1: kids to actually want to be in that learning zone
[8:11] Speaker 1: so that they can stay there longer and learn more.
[8:14] Speaker 1: Stay with us, we're back with the Happy Families podcast.
[8:24] Speaker 1: How do we get kids to want to be in
[8:26] Speaker 1: the learning zone? Kylie, I think we need to sit
[8:28] Speaker 1: our children down, look at them in the eyes and say,
[8:31] Speaker 1: as they're struggling with their English essay, or as they're
[8:34] Speaker 1: struggling with their home reader or whatever it is, dear child,
[8:38] Speaker 1: there is no triumph without the trial.
[8:42] Speaker 2: I'll unleash you.
[8:45] Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to work. Our job, somehow,
[8:48] Speaker 1: is to have this conversation where we communicate with them
[8:50] Speaker 1: that uncomfortable emotions are just a signal that they are
[8:54] Speaker 1: in the learning zone, and ironically that can simply be enough.
[8:59] Speaker 1: That can be the prompt that they need so that
[9:01] Speaker 1: they can steady their emotions and put their head down
[9:03] Speaker 1: and stay on the learning zone long enough to actually
[9:04] Speaker 1: learn the thing that they need to learn, which means
[9:06] Speaker 1: that they don't feel unpleasant anymore. Like if I said
[9:08] Speaker 1: to you, I know what you're going through is really hard,
[9:12] Speaker 1: but by going through this hard thing, it's going to
[9:13] Speaker 1: make you stronger. There's a chance I don't know. I mean,
[9:16] Speaker 1: you tell me, are you?
[9:18] Speaker 2: It depends whether I want to be strong.
[9:19] Speaker 1: It depends on whether you exactly. So you've been making
[9:21] Speaker 1: a big deal in the pod lately that you're really
[9:23] Speaker 1: enjoying pt You're enjoying the experience of being in the
[9:28] Speaker 1: gym and try to lift heavy things and move your
[9:30] Speaker 1: body in ways that you haven't moved it before. And
[9:33] Speaker 1: when you feel disgruntled, when you feel like it's really hard,
[9:36] Speaker 1: and our trainer says to you, these next three reps
[9:40] Speaker 1: are the ones that count the most. And you're so
[9:42] Speaker 1: thinking that I can't lift one more rep and you're
[9:43] Speaker 1: saying to do three more. You hear him say that,
[9:46] Speaker 1: and what do you do? Sure, you grown and complain,
[9:50] Speaker 1: but then you lift and you stay in that zone.
[9:54] Speaker 1: You stay in that zone of discomfort, that zone of unpleasantness,
[9:56] Speaker 1: that zone of sweat and tears and frustration and pain
[10:01] Speaker 1: because you know that in three reps you'll have done
[10:04] Speaker 1: what you need to do to get there. Somehow we've
[10:07] Speaker 1: got to teach our kids that exact same thing. I mean,
[10:10] Speaker 1: it's great for us when we know that we're in
[10:13] Speaker 1: the learning zone, something shifts. But here's the thing. When
[10:16] Speaker 1: you just say you're feeling unpleasant and that's normal that
[10:18] Speaker 1: you're feeling unpleasant because you're learning something right now and
[10:21] Speaker 1: it's hard. But once you've learned it, this won't feel
[10:23] Speaker 1: unpleasant anymore. The game changes and your.
[10:26] Speaker 2: Kids there's something else that replaces it. Yes, somebody else
[10:33] Speaker 2: speaking on sad instead.
[10:34] Speaker 1: That's life, But we don't tell the kids that otherwise
[10:40] Speaker 1: they sounds a bit nihilistic. I feel like we've gone
[10:43] Speaker 1: on nature on ear. So the one thing that we've
[10:46] Speaker 1: got to highlight here, Kyleie, is this only works, even
[10:48] Speaker 1: morally or ethically or both, when the struggles worthwhile. And
[10:51] Speaker 1: you kind of hinted at this in the first part
[10:52] Speaker 1: of our conversation. Suffering through busy work because it's on
[10:56] Speaker 1: the curriculum is just suffering, yep. But when the challenge matters,
[11:01] Speaker 1: that's when the discomfort promotes progress. And again I just
[11:05] Speaker 1: I go back to this thing. You're in the gym
[11:06] Speaker 1: or I want to bite going up a hill if
[11:08] Speaker 1: I'm choosing it. If I can see the purpose in it,
[11:12] Speaker 1: then I'm going to be happy to be in the
[11:13] Speaker 1: learning zone. So our job when I case.
[11:16] Speaker 2: In point, Yeah, I couldn't skip last week.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, literally, I'm like, I wish that this was
[11:23] Speaker 1: not a podcast. I wish we could play video right now,
[11:26] Speaker 1: that this was not audio only because watching and I'm publicly,
[11:31] Speaker 1: I'm publicly humilating you. I'm aware of that, and I'm
[11:33] Speaker 1: glad that you're laughing along with me. But watching you skip,
[11:37] Speaker 1: everyone in the gym, they were only there are only
[11:38] Speaker 1: three or four of us, but everyone in the gym
[11:40] Speaker 1: was just in stitches because you.
[11:42] Speaker 2: It was like I was I was like a marching soldier. Yeah.
[11:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like I couldn't work out how to how
[11:49] Speaker 1: to do the hop before you.
[11:51] Speaker 2: It wasn't even the hop, forget the hop. I had
[11:53] Speaker 2: to get my opposite arm and leg to work at
[11:57] Speaker 2: the same time. That was the first thing. So the
[12:00] Speaker 2: only way I could do that was to do literally
[12:03] Speaker 2: straight arm and leg regimented soldier, but in.
[12:07] Speaker 1: A skipping format without the hop. Well, it was just
[12:10] Speaker 1: so funny. So we were laughing at heads off. But
[12:13] Speaker 1: after about a week of practicing, you finally figured out
[12:16] Speaker 1: how to skip, and now you run up and down
[12:18] Speaker 1: the what was run? You skip up and down the
[12:20] Speaker 1: corridor at home with a great big smile on your
[12:22] Speaker 1: face because you can skip. But you had to go
[12:25] Speaker 1: through this period of it was more than a week, actually,
[12:28] Speaker 1: it was about ten days where you literally couldn't skip,
[12:30] Speaker 1: and you're getting really frustrated and you were actually a
[12:32] Speaker 1: little bit hurt when we laughed a little bit too
[12:34] Speaker 1: hard once.
[12:35] Speaker 2: So I was. I was, But I think the turning
[12:39] Speaker 2: point for me with that it was I was really
[12:42] Speaker 2: embarrassed when I first tried to do it, because in
[12:46] Speaker 2: my head I knew exactly what needed to happen, and clearly,
[12:50] Speaker 2: as a child, I skipped lots, but I've lost that
[12:55] Speaker 2: neural pathway of years and years of not using it,
[12:59] Speaker 2: and so everybody was laughing, and I felt really embarrassed
[13:03] Speaker 2: to start with. And the turning point for me was
[13:06] Speaker 2: realizing that it was actually quite really funny and if
[13:11] Speaker 2: I could just tap into that laughter thing and just
[13:14] Speaker 2: enjoy the process and recognize that with a little bit
[13:17] Speaker 2: more help and a little bit more technique, I can
[13:19] Speaker 2: work this out. It's about getting curious, not furious. It's
[13:23] Speaker 2: kind of the same.
[13:23] Speaker 1: Thing with yourself. Yeah, so here's the upshot, because we
[13:25] Speaker 1: need to wrap. If you've got a child who doesn't
[13:27] Speaker 1: want to do stuff. Number one, let's make sure it's relevant.
[13:30] Speaker 2: They can't skip and not swim.
[13:32] Speaker 1: Make sure it's relevant. Make sure that it's purposeful. If
[13:34] Speaker 1: it's not, you're facing an uphill battle. That's the reality. Okay,
[13:37] Speaker 1: They've got to believe that it's relevant and purposeful. If
[13:39] Speaker 1: you've got that, then it's a case of saying, well,
[13:42] Speaker 1: if this matters. You're feeling uncomfortable because you can't do
[13:45] Speaker 1: it right now. But the longer you can stay in
[13:47] Speaker 1: this space of feeling uncomfortable and keep working at it,
[13:50] Speaker 1: the sooner you'll get to the point where it is
[13:52] Speaker 1: comfortable because you figured it out. And that tiny reframe
[13:55] Speaker 1: that we spent the last sort of twelve or thirteen
[13:57] Speaker 1: minutes talking about, that tiny ree frame changes the game
[14:02] Speaker 1: purposes everything. But once you've got purpose, you're willing to
[14:06] Speaker 1: sit in the suffering. Victor Frankel in man Search for
[14:09] Speaker 1: Meanings said he who has a why can live with
[14:12] Speaker 1: any how. In other words, you'll push through hard stuff
[14:16] Speaker 1: if you've got a reason for it. That's the Happy
[14:18] Speaker 1: Family's podcast and today we really hope this helps your
[14:20] Speaker 1: kids to stay in the learning zone, no matter how
[14:22] Speaker 1: old they are and no matter what they're struggling with.
[14:25] Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. The Happy Families podcast is
[14:27] Speaker 1: produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides
[14:30] Speaker 1: admin and other support and if you'd like more info
[14:33] Speaker 1: to make your family happy, to help you to be happier,
[14:36] Speaker 1: especially if you're raising an ADHD child, check out our
[14:38] Speaker 1: ADHD parenting courses online now. It's all a lot Happy
[14:41] Speaker 1: families dot com dot au

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