# Protective Pathways with Dr Julia Rudolph

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 2 Jun 2026, 24 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/eb915251-3c72-431c-9f6d-b45800b9db7b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

Most parents teach their children “stranger danger” and protective behaviours believing it will keep them safe. But what if the way we’ve approached child safety for decades isn’t actually the most effective strategy? In this confronting but deeply important conversation, Dr Justin Coulson speaks with child sexual abuse prevention specialist Dr Julia Rudolph about how abuse really unfolds, why grooming is often invisible to families, and the practical shifts parents can make to create safer environments for children. This episode explores the hidden patterns behind grooming, the limits of child-focused prevention strategies, and why parents play the most powerful role in protecting kids. It’s uncomfortable listening at times — but it may also change the way you think about safety forever. KEY POINTS: • Why most child sexual abuse does not begin with fear or violenceHow grooming targets both children and adults • The “Five Cs of Grooming” parents need to understand • Why traditional “protective behaviours” education may fall short • The research-backed parenting strategies linked to lower abuse risk • How supervision, boundaries, and engagement create safer environments • The shift parents need to make from teaching safety to creating safety QUOTE OF THE EPISODE: “Prevention is not about preparing children to manage dangerous adults. It’s about adults creating the conditions that make children harder to access, harder to isolate, and surrounded by safe, engaged environments.” RESOURCES MENTIONED: • Protective Pathways • Happy Families ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: • Learn the signs and stages of grooming, both online and offline • Get curious about the environments and adults around your child • Create clear family rules and boundaries around supervision and care • Focus on warm, connected relationships with your children • Shift the question from “How do I teach my child to stay safe?” to “How do I create safer environments around my child?” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: Gooday, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. The world is imperfect,
[0:09] Speaker 1: The world is full of people who have horrible motives.
[0:12] Speaker 1: And today on the podcast, a conversation that I wish
[0:14] Speaker 1: we didn't have to have because I wish that people
[0:17] Speaker 1: had just treated children the way they should. Unfortunately, there
[0:19] Speaker 1: is this thing called abuse, sexual abuse specifically, and everything
[0:24] Speaker 1: that we do as parents, we just want to keep
[0:25] Speaker 1: our kids safe. What if the conversations we've been having
[0:28] Speaker 1: with our children are not helping? What if they're ineffective?
[0:31] Speaker 1: What if there are more effective things that we can
[0:33] Speaker 1: do to keep our kids safe. Today on the pod,
[0:36] Speaker 1: a conversation with doctor Julia Rudolph, who is a child
[0:39] Speaker 1: sexual abuse prevention specialist and the founder of Protective Pathways.
[0:43] Speaker 1: She's going to turn some of our well trodden ideas
[0:46] Speaker 1: on their head and talk to us about how we
[0:48] Speaker 1: can shift our thinking to keep kids safe. That's next,
[0:54] Speaker 1: stay with us. Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. You
[1:00] Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's
[1:03] Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. I'm doctor Justin Colson, her dad
[1:06] Speaker 1: to six daughters, and I'm not gonna lie when it
[1:10] Speaker 1: comes to keeping kids safe. This is something that has
[1:12] Speaker 1: been front and center in my mind since the day
[1:14] Speaker 1: my first child was born. We're going back nearly twenty
[1:17] Speaker 1: seven years or thereabouts, five more daughters after that, and
[1:21] Speaker 1: it's been a conversation that we've had consistently in our home. Kids.
[1:25] Speaker 1: It's not up to you. It shouldn't be up to you,
[1:26] Speaker 1: but there are bad people out there and the world's
[1:28] Speaker 1: not perfect, so we need you to know how to
[1:31] Speaker 1: stay safe. Doctor Julia Rudolph is a child sexual abuse
[1:34] Speaker 1: prevention specialist and the founder of Protective Pathways. She's worked
[1:38] Speaker 1: in frontline child protection in Australia and the UK, completed
[1:42] Speaker 1: a PhD in sexual abuse prevention, conducted and published research
[1:47] Speaker 1: in this field, and contributed to national child sexual abuse policy.
[1:53] Speaker 1: Through Protective Pathways, she works with parents, cares and people
[1:55] Speaker 1: who work with children to understand how grooming operates and
[1:58] Speaker 1: how to create safer in environments for children young people
[2:01] Speaker 1: that disrupt the grooming process and reduce the risk of
[2:05] Speaker 1: sexual abuse. It's such an important conversation, Julia, I'm so
[2:08] Speaker 1: glad you're with me today. What do parents need to
[2:11] Speaker 1: understand about how child sexual abuse actually unfolds?
[2:15] Speaker 2: Thanks for having me justin So, Yeah, when people think
[2:20] Speaker 2: about sexual abuse, they might imagine kind of a violent
[2:24] Speaker 2: attack or something that is certainly scary or frightening or
[2:28] Speaker 2: at least anxiety producing or upsetting for a child. But
[2:31] Speaker 2: that's not really how sexual abuse usually happens. So usually
[2:35] Speaker 2: it happens slowly, deliberately, over time with someone the child
[2:41] Speaker 2: knows or is close to, and offenders use this pattern
[2:45] Speaker 2: of behavior with a child and with the environment to
[2:50] Speaker 2: allow the abuse to happen and to ensure it stays hidden.
[2:53] Speaker 2: And offenders use these or work in typical ways. And
[2:56] Speaker 2: that's what we call brooming. And there's several reasons why parents,
[3:02] Speaker 2: all adults, but especially parents really need to know about grooming.
[3:06] Speaker 2: The fact is that it is extremely common, so it
[3:08] Speaker 2: is kind of a fundamental part of the sexual abuse process.
[3:12] Speaker 2: In fact, recent research in the US shows that ninety
[3:15] Speaker 2: nine percent of survivors experienced some form of grooming throughout
[3:20] Speaker 2: the abuse that they experience, so it's a fundamental part
[3:23] Speaker 2: of it. The second reason is that explains why some survivors,
[3:28] Speaker 2: some children weren't able to recognize, react, and report at
[3:32] Speaker 2: the time that the abuse was happening. Because grooming feels
[3:36] Speaker 2: like friendship, care, or love, and it's specifically designed to
[3:40] Speaker 2: undermine a child's ability to do those things. The third
[3:44] Speaker 2: reason is that offenders don't just groom children, so that
[3:48] Speaker 2: might be a misunderstanding as well. They groom the adults
[3:52] Speaker 2: around children as well, And which adults depends on the context,
[3:56] Speaker 2: so it can be parents, careers, colleagues, workplaces, times, whole communities.
[4:01] Speaker 2: So as adults, we also need to be aware or
[4:04] Speaker 2: recognize grooming when we are the targets of the grooming.
[4:08] Speaker 2: And then also, and this is the good news. So
[4:10] Speaker 2: because grooming is a pattern, it's recognizable, and that means
[4:15] Speaker 2: it's interruptible, and that's the good news. If we're able
[4:17] Speaker 2: to recognize this pattern, then we're able to interrupt it.
[4:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about that. I'm just reflecting as
[4:23] Speaker 1: you're speaking. I had no idea that this was going
[4:25] Speaker 1: on when I was a child, but I was involved
[4:28] Speaker 1: in a group, in a community, group of an organization.
[4:32] Speaker 1: I suppose you'd call it. That is global. And I'm
[4:35] Speaker 1: not going to mention it because I just the whole
[4:38] Speaker 1: thing just feels awful now that I know what happened.
[4:41] Speaker 1: But I remember driving home one day with my dad,
[4:46] Speaker 1: and he seemed really agitated, really really upset, and when
[4:52] Speaker 1: I spoke to him, he just said, I need to
[4:54] Speaker 1: ask you a question, and you need to be absolutely
[4:56] Speaker 1: honest with me. And I said sure, Like I'm just
[4:59] Speaker 1: a no, a ten or eleven year old kid. I'm like,
[5:01] Speaker 1: you know, okay, dad, whatever you say. And then he
[5:03] Speaker 1: asked me if anybody had ever done the wrong thing
[5:06] Speaker 1: with me, had it ever touched me inappropriately? And I
[5:09] Speaker 1: just remember thinking that's a weird question. No, Like it
[5:12] Speaker 1: was just a very easy thing for me to say
[5:14] Speaker 1: no because it hadn't happened. But it transpired, and I
[5:16] Speaker 1: found out some years later that in that organization, one
[5:22] Speaker 1: of the adult leaders who was very very very close
[5:26] Speaker 1: with all of the parents whose children were participating in
[5:29] Speaker 1: this children focused activity, one of those leaders had abused
[5:34] Speaker 1: several of the children in that group. This is a
[5:38] Speaker 1: classic case of grooming right like friends and close to
[5:41] Speaker 1: the parents, relationships have trust at the adult level as
[5:44] Speaker 1: well as at the child level, and all of a sudden,
[5:46] Speaker 1: there are these children. I say all of a sudden,
[5:48] Speaker 1: but it wasn't all of a sudden. This was like
[5:50] Speaker 1: a ten, twelve, fifteen year relationship. So you're not in
[5:56] Speaker 1: your head and saying yeah, like that's exactly what you'd expect.
[5:59] Speaker 1: But for some people that we thinking, hang on, that's
[6:00] Speaker 1: not what I expect. Can you walk through what does
[6:03] Speaker 1: grooming look like? How can parents recognize it? Because because
[6:06] Speaker 1: it is actually just we're friends, right, this is somebody
[6:09] Speaker 1: that we trust, somebody we have dinner with, go to
[6:11] Speaker 1: a barbecue with a ten church or go to the
[6:14] Speaker 1: sports club with. This is really hard to get your
[6:17] Speaker 1: head around.
[6:17] Speaker 2: It is. It is, it's really and it's really confronting.
[6:20] Speaker 2: And grooming has like I said, it's a pattern. And
[6:24] Speaker 2: as we don't we have to understand the abuse doesn't
[6:27] Speaker 2: start with abuse. As I just said, it's a very
[6:29] Speaker 2: gradual and slow process. And also it's important to know
[6:32] Speaker 2: that it happens online as well. So I teach parents
[6:35] Speaker 2: about what it looks like online and offline because there's
[6:38] Speaker 2: roughly similar patterns. So to help parents recognize grooming, I
[6:42] Speaker 2: developed a model based on basically fulty plus years of
[6:46] Speaker 2: research and ten years of my own research, call the
[6:49] Speaker 2: Five Seas of Grooming, and it allows parents just to
[6:52] Speaker 2: kind of have a memorable and practical framework. So the
[6:56] Speaker 2: Five Seas of grooming are choose, connect off, cross boundaries,
[7:02] Speaker 2: and control. So I'll just tell you about them really briefly.
[7:05] Speaker 2: So in the first stage, an offender choose as a
[7:08] Speaker 2: child and a care environment based on ease of access, vulnerability,
[7:14] Speaker 2: and opportunity. And like I said, that happens online too,
[7:17] Speaker 2: So offenders are unbelievably good at deducing a vulnerable care
[7:23] Speaker 2: environment or child based on the child's online behavior and
[7:26] Speaker 2: pattern abuse.
[7:27] Speaker 1: So, Juliet, before you move on to the second of
[7:29] Speaker 1: those five c's when you say choose, my read of
[7:34] Speaker 1: the research is that there are specific characteristics, there are
[7:39] Speaker 1: specific families, specific children who may be more vulnerable to abuse.
[7:44] Speaker 1: I know not it going to happen across the spectrum,
[7:47] Speaker 1: but it does tend to. As I understand, the research
[7:50] Speaker 1: cluster in certain areas more than others. Am I right
[7:53] Speaker 1: about that? And if so, how would you describe those populations?
[7:58] Speaker 2: You are right? So the research we've got now again
[8:01] Speaker 2: forty plus years of research on risk factors. But I
[8:04] Speaker 2: don't want to suggest that there are children you know,
[8:07] Speaker 2: there are only these children, only these hair environments that
[8:11] Speaker 2: are targeted. So certainly all parents need to be aware
[8:14] Speaker 2: of this because we can go on a balance of
[8:16] Speaker 2: evidence type thing. But obviously it can happen anywhere at
[8:20] Speaker 2: any time, so yeah, research it. And also I want
[8:23] Speaker 2: parents to know that if they have a child who
[8:27] Speaker 2: has these vulnerabilities, then it doesn't mean the child will
[8:30] Speaker 2: be abused, you know, but knowing about the vulnerabilities actually
[8:34] Speaker 2: does help because it allows us to be more conscious,
[8:37] Speaker 2: you know, more protective if we know that our child
[8:40] Speaker 2: has one of these vulnerabilities. So I also don't want
[8:42] Speaker 2: to scare parents by saying, you know, these are the
[8:45] Speaker 2: vulnerabilities and they think, oh, my child fits that category,
[8:48] Speaker 2: that you know that means that that they will be abused.
[8:50] Speaker 2: That's not certainly not the case either. But we do
[8:52] Speaker 2: know that children with a disability, children who have some
[8:57] Speaker 2: kind of perhaps trauma in their past, or have experienced
[9:01] Speaker 2: adverse childhood experiences, so bullying, other types of abuse, children
[9:06] Speaker 2: who are have some emotional or psychological difficulties, children where
[9:11] Speaker 2: they've experienced either the death of a parent or separation
[9:14] Speaker 2: of parents, so that kind of thing. So, you know,
[9:16] Speaker 2: children who have experienced some trauma or experiencing some difficulties.
[9:20] Speaker 2: And then we also have certain home environments that are
[9:23] Speaker 2: a little bit more at risk. And that's something that
[9:26] Speaker 2: you know, for example, a home where there's loose kind
[9:30] Speaker 2: of rules around supervision, or lots of adults coming and going,
[9:33] Speaker 2: so parents who perhaps are not certain of who's looking
[9:36] Speaker 2: after which children at what time, or who's doing intimate
[9:39] Speaker 2: care duties such as nappy changes or bathing and kind
[9:41] Speaker 2: of you know, loose routines that kind of thing. So
[9:44] Speaker 2: these are the kind of families or children that are
[9:46] Speaker 2: more vulnerable. And if that was something that fit your experience,
[9:50] Speaker 2: then you know, allowing us to kind of put strong
[9:54] Speaker 2: or protections in place when we know those things is
[9:56] Speaker 2: obviously helpful. But I don't want to other scare parents
[9:59] Speaker 2: or suggest that only those situations.
[10:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd add to that when I think back
[10:03] Speaker 1: on the children, the boys that I'm aware of who
[10:06] Speaker 1: were harmed by this particular leader in my childhood growing up,
[10:10] Speaker 1: some of them fit that vulnerable category quite just really
[10:15] Speaker 1: really easily. But there were a couple of boys who
[10:18] Speaker 1: came from what you could only describe as really strong,
[10:23] Speaker 1: really together, really connected families with strong supervision, Mum and
[10:28] Speaker 1: dad in the home, earning decent money, heavily involved in
[10:31] Speaker 1: their kids' lives. I asked the question because I know
[10:34] Speaker 1: that there are certain vulnerabilities, but your point is this
[10:36] Speaker 1: can happen anywhere, and so parents do need to be
[10:39] Speaker 1: mindful of it. Let's talk about those other four c's.
[10:41] Speaker 1: What's the second one?
[10:42] Speaker 2: So the second one is connect So this is where
[10:44] Speaker 2: our fenders work to build trust and rapport again not
[10:48] Speaker 2: just with the child, but with the adults around the
[10:50] Speaker 2: child as well. And then the next stage is cutting off. Now,
[10:53] Speaker 2: this stage is about cutting the child off physically and emotionally,
[10:58] Speaker 2: and it is the most important of all the five seas,
[11:01] Speaker 2: and I stress this to parents in my sessions. Abuse
[11:04] Speaker 2: can't happen without that step. The next one is crossing boundaries.
[11:09] Speaker 2: So once the first three have been achieved, the offender
[11:13] Speaker 2: then gradually crosses boundaries and desensitizers again not just the child,
[11:18] Speaker 2: the adults around them as well. And this is the
[11:20] Speaker 2: phase where the contact sexual abuse would then occur. And
[11:24] Speaker 2: then once abuse has occurred, offenders use emotional manipulation and
[11:29] Speaker 2: threats to maintain the abuse and to avoid detection. So
[11:33] Speaker 2: that's the control phase. So yeah, they're the five seas
[11:36] Speaker 2: of grooming. And you know parents might be thinking, well,
[11:40] Speaker 2: if grooming looks like friendship, care or love. Then how
[11:43] Speaker 2: can I distinguish it from healthy adult relationships because children
[11:47] Speaker 2: need those healthy adult relationships. They're actually protective because it
[11:51] Speaker 2: kind of adds to a child support network, so they're
[11:53] Speaker 2: really important. So I work really hard in my sessions
[11:56] Speaker 2: to make sure that you know, we're looking at these
[11:58] Speaker 2: side by side. We look at risky behaviors and healthy behaviors,
[12:01] Speaker 2: and healthy relationships and risky relationships side by side, and
[12:04] Speaker 2: then you can really see the qualitative differences between the two.
[12:08] Speaker 1: So this is the bit where normally, as a parent,
[12:10] Speaker 1: you'd say, well, I guess I have to do the
[12:13] Speaker 1: child education. I have to do the teaching of my
[12:15] Speaker 1: child to recognize and report abuse. I wish I didn't
[12:18] Speaker 1: have to, but the well, it's not perfect, and therefore
[12:19] Speaker 1: that's what I need to do. Your work suggests that
[12:22] Speaker 1: this may not be effective.
[12:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've placed for a really long time.
[12:28] Speaker 2: We've placed a lot of faith in the idea that
[12:30] Speaker 2: if we give children the right information, then they'll be
[12:32] Speaker 2: able to keep themselves safe. So this strategy has different names.
[12:36] Speaker 2: I'll call it protective behaviors education, but it's referred to
[12:39] Speaker 2: as all sorts of things, and the content varies between
[12:42] Speaker 2: the courses, but basically they're teaching children to recognize bodily
[12:46] Speaker 2: signs and then some form of the no go tell,
[12:49] Speaker 2: which is kind of what I refer to as recognize,
[12:52] Speaker 2: react and report. And so I could go into a
[12:55] Speaker 2: little bit of the history. But we started using this
[12:57] Speaker 2: method it was actually based on in the nineteen seventies
[13:01] Speaker 2: because we didn't have any evidence. It kind of exploded
[13:04] Speaker 2: onto the scene sexual abuse with some really awful cases
[13:07] Speaker 2: and really high prevalence rates, and policymakers really didn't know
[13:10] Speaker 2: what to do. There was no evidence to guide prevention,
[13:13] Speaker 2: and so they borrowed what the anti rape movement was
[13:18] Speaker 2: using at the time with women and children, which was
[13:20] Speaker 2: teaching them self defense strategies to ward off rapists in
[13:25] Speaker 2: a kind of violent sexual assault situation. So this was
[13:28] Speaker 2: done a lot in Australia. In the US, I as
[13:30] Speaker 2: a girl of about eight or nine, attended a self
[13:33] Speaker 2: defense session where I was taught how I could try
[13:36] Speaker 2: to fend off an adult male. So the sexual abuse
[13:41] Speaker 2: prevention feel at the time borrowed this and they then
[13:44] Speaker 2: applied it to children, So teaching children self defense strategies
[13:48] Speaker 2: to help protect themselves, and after a while the anti
[13:51] Speaker 2: rape movement moved on from their self defense technique, but
[13:54] Speaker 2: the protective behavior's education remained as the main form of
[13:58] Speaker 2: prevention that we've been doing for forty years. But there
[14:01] Speaker 2: are some really serious limitations with this, especially relying on
[14:04] Speaker 2: this as our main prevention method. The first one is
[14:07] Speaker 2: that it places the responsibility for prevention on to the
[14:13] Speaker 2: victim of the violence, which in this case is piled
[14:17] Speaker 2: and we don't do this with any other form of
[14:20] Speaker 2: safety initiative or violence prevention. We don't do it with
[14:24] Speaker 2: physical abuse, with bullying, with racial harassment, with rape, you know,
[14:28] Speaker 2: we don't say it's your job to stop this. We
[14:30] Speaker 2: expect community intervention, perpetrator deterrent, you know, we don't expect
[14:34] Speaker 2: the victims to stop it. The second issue is that
[14:38] Speaker 2: when children have this education in schools, parents are largely
[14:42] Speaker 2: left out of prevention, and they're the key to prevention,
[14:44] Speaker 2: and over the last forty years they've been left out
[14:47] Speaker 2: to a large extent, and when they are involved, their
[14:51] Speaker 2: role has been limited to that of educator. So we
[14:54] Speaker 2: teach parents how to teach their children about these recognized
[14:59] Speaker 2: react and report techniques, but research shows that that's maybe
[15:03] Speaker 2: not the best way to use parents. So in my
[15:05] Speaker 2: research with parents, I found that even very well informed
[15:12] Speaker 2: parents about the risks of sexual abuse, or very highly
[15:15] Speaker 2: educated parents, parents who are actually very very supportive of
[15:19] Speaker 2: this method, have not given their children comprehensive messages. So
[15:24] Speaker 2: parents are not very good at doing this is what
[15:27] Speaker 2: my research shows, or actually what a lot of research
[15:29] Speaker 2: shows that parents are not. Even though we're encouraging parents
[15:32] Speaker 2: to give children this information, they're not doing it on
[15:34] Speaker 2: a consistent or in a comprehensive way, And so my
[15:37] Speaker 2: research suggests that parents might not be best users educators. Next,
[15:42] Speaker 2: we don't have a lot of robust evidence to suggest
[15:45] Speaker 2: that it actually works to reduce sexual abuse. So I
[15:48] Speaker 2: did a study with about one two hundred people, mostly
[15:51] Speaker 2: younger people, which was published in twenty twenty two, and
[15:55] Speaker 2: I actually didn't find an association between childhood education, both
[16:00] Speaker 2: at home and at school and rates of sexual abuse.
[16:03] Speaker 2: What I did find associated with lower rates of sexual
[16:06] Speaker 2: abuse was protective parenting. So that's one of the reasons
[16:10] Speaker 2: why I do what I do, or what I have
[16:12] Speaker 2: you know, has really confirmed my other research and the
[16:14] Speaker 2: position that I take that I look at adult action
[16:18] Speaker 2: rather than child education.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Surely, I'm sitting here listening to you, and I'm just
[16:21] Speaker 1: thinking this is so hard for parents, Like, we don't
[16:23] Speaker 1: want to be helicopter parents, but we do have to
[16:26] Speaker 1: be protective, and we like, there's just so much to
[16:30] Speaker 1: balance here. We need to take a quick break. After
[16:33] Speaker 1: the break, I want to get really practical. This is
[16:35] Speaker 1: where we have that part of the conversation where you
[16:37] Speaker 1: just tell us what we're supposed to do, because listening
[16:39] Speaker 1: at this conversation can feel a little bit heavy. So
[16:42] Speaker 1: right after the break, what are some practical things parents
[16:45] Speaker 1: can do to protect their children, especially since we really
[16:49] Speaker 1: want to put this on parents, not kids. Stay with us.
[17:00] Speaker 2: We're back.
[17:01] Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast talking about how parents can
[17:03] Speaker 1: help their kids to stay safe. Doctor Julia Rudolph is
[17:07] Speaker 1: a child protection researcher and practitioner based on the Gold
[17:10] Speaker 1: Coast and founder of Protective Pathways. Julia, let's just get
[17:14] Speaker 1: straight into the practical stuff. What are in your experience
[17:19] Speaker 1: and your research the most practical things that parents can
[17:23] Speaker 1: do to protect their children.
[17:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I teach parents about what grooming looks like
[17:28] Speaker 2: online and offline with the five c's and then I
[17:31] Speaker 2: teach them about the creation of safe environments and that's
[17:34] Speaker 2: I use or I developed a framework call safe. So
[17:37] Speaker 2: again it's based on forty plus research with offenders with
[17:41] Speaker 2: the survivors on risk factors, as well as my own
[17:45] Speaker 2: research and safe outlines for areas where parents and other
[17:49] Speaker 2: adults can be protective. So it stands for supervision and monitoring,
[17:55] Speaker 2: accessing and assigning care, family rules and boundaries, and engagement
[18:00] Speaker 2: and communication. So supervision and monitoring is the cornerstone of safe.
[18:06] Speaker 2: It is the basis of any effective prevention strategy. So
[18:10] Speaker 2: it's actually counteracting that sea that I mentioned before, which
[18:14] Speaker 2: is the most critical, see the cutting off, So it
[18:17] Speaker 2: really counteracts those So here we're talking about I think
[18:21] Speaker 2: we all know what supervision is. It's being there, having
[18:23] Speaker 2: eyes on your child, but monitoring is really really important
[18:26] Speaker 2: part of that. So monitoring is not about policing, but
[18:29] Speaker 2: it's about being aware, being aware of where, where your
[18:33] Speaker 2: child is, who they're with, what's happening. I'm sure your
[18:36] Speaker 2: parents might have questions about sleepovers and things like that.
[18:40] Speaker 2: So it's about knowing the family where your child is
[18:43] Speaker 2: going and not knowing them because knowing them means they're safe,
[18:47] Speaker 2: absolutely not. It means about knowing or having an awareness
[18:50] Speaker 2: of what's their views on parenting, how do they parent,
[18:54] Speaker 2: what's their views on supervision? Who's going to be in
[18:57] Speaker 2: the house. Are there a lot of adults coming and going?
[19:00] Speaker 2: Is there perhaps an older sibling or older cousin who
[19:02] Speaker 2: lives in the house, or an older sibling who has
[19:04] Speaker 2: a lot of people coming over, because we know that
[19:06] Speaker 2: older adolescents are a risk in this area. Will they
[19:10] Speaker 2: be drinking? We know alcohol is very associated with sexual
[19:13] Speaker 2: abuse occurring, so you know, is their drinking, is there
[19:16] Speaker 2: a party? So it's knowing, you know, knowing and then
[19:19] Speaker 2: making an informed decision about whether or not that's a
[19:22] Speaker 2: risky situation or not. So that's supervision and monitoring. And
[19:26] Speaker 2: then the next one is access and assigning care wisely.
[19:29] Speaker 2: So this is about making informed and deliberate decisions about
[19:33] Speaker 2: who has care giving roles or who has access. So
[19:37] Speaker 2: research shows that there are some situations that puts children
[19:40] Speaker 2: at more risk, and it's about parents knowing where the
[19:44] Speaker 2: risks lie and then making informed decisions about the children
[19:49] Speaker 2: the care of their children. The next one is family rules.
[19:54] Speaker 2: So family rules about reducing ambiguity, creating structure, reducing opportunities
[20:00] Speaker 2: a risk. This helps children to know what's normal in
[20:03] Speaker 2: the family and what's allowed in the family. It helps
[20:06] Speaker 2: adults around your child to see that you are involved parent,
[20:09] Speaker 2: that you have rules, and it also helps you to
[20:13] Speaker 2: see when someone is crossing those boundaries, which is the
[20:15] Speaker 2: fourth sea. So if you have family rules and boundaries
[20:18] Speaker 2: in place, and everyone who cares for your child knows
[20:21] Speaker 2: those rules and boundaries, then it makes it easier for
[20:23] Speaker 2: you to see when those have been crossed. And then
[20:27] Speaker 2: E stands for engagement and communication. And so if supervision
[20:31] Speaker 2: and monitoring is the cornerstone of safe, then engagement is
[20:34] Speaker 2: the foundation. So all rests on this positive, warm, loving,
[20:40] Speaker 2: supportive relationships and environments around the children. So that's the
[20:46] Speaker 2: the engaged parenting.
[20:49] Speaker 1: Listening to these, Julia, it's one of those things where
[20:53] Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I do all this stuff with my kids,
[20:55] Speaker 1: and yet when I let them go somewhere, I still
[20:59] Speaker 1: might my heart is in my mouth. Had an incident
[21:03] Speaker 1: recently where my youngest was in the care of her
[21:06] Speaker 1: grandparents and they wanted her to be able to have
[21:10] Speaker 1: a sleepover with somebody who was known to the family.
[21:14] Speaker 1: And we have no reason to think that there could
[21:16] Speaker 1: be any possibility that anything could go wrong. But I
[21:19] Speaker 1: was thinking to myself, I don't know this person. I mean,
[21:21] Speaker 1: I know them, but I don't know them nearly well enough.
[21:25] Speaker 1: I know how good my daughter's relationship with is with
[21:27] Speaker 1: their daughter, but oh, my goodness, heart and the mouth
[21:31] Speaker 1: kind of stuff like what making these choices is just
[21:35] Speaker 1: so hard consistently. I'm so grateful for the wisdom that
[21:39] Speaker 1: you've shared today. I think I'd love to ask you
[21:42] Speaker 1: one more question just as we wrap things up. Our
[21:45] Speaker 1: time is well and truly spent. Although I think based
[21:47] Speaker 1: on everything that you've shared, we could do this for
[21:49] Speaker 1: another couple of hours. We could turn this into like
[21:52] Speaker 1: a Lex Friedman Joe Rogan kind of thing. There's so
[21:55] Speaker 1: much to talk about here. The thing that's been on
[21:57] Speaker 1: my mind as I've listened to is just what's the
[22:01] Speaker 1: most important shift in thinking the parents need to make
[22:04] Speaker 1: to keep their kids safe here?
[22:07] Speaker 2: Well, from all the research that we have available to
[22:10] Speaker 2: us and from my own research, we really need to
[22:14] Speaker 2: shift thinking to move away from how do I teach
[22:16] Speaker 2: my child to keep themselves safe? To how do I
[22:20] Speaker 2: actively create safe environments for my child. So really, I
[22:24] Speaker 2: think that's the biggest shift. So prevention is not about,
[22:27] Speaker 2: you know, preparing children to manage dangerous adults. It's about
[22:31] Speaker 2: adults creating the conditions that make children harder to access,
[22:36] Speaker 2: harder to isolate, and surrounded by safe, engaged environments.
[22:41] Speaker 1: Doctor Julia Rudolph is a child sexual abuse prevention specialist
[22:44] Speaker 1: the founder of Protective Pathways. Julia, you do work all
[22:48] Speaker 1: over the country sharing workshops with organizations, in schools and
[22:54] Speaker 1: with adults about this. Is that correct?
[22:57] Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. So schools, shild cut centers, wherever adults are,
[23:00] Speaker 2: wherever parents are, or anyone who works with kids. I'll
[23:04] Speaker 2: give sessions.
[23:05] Speaker 1: Okay, well, I think that you should be doing more sessions.
[23:07] Speaker 1: And hopefully people have heard this, especially school leaders, early
[23:10] Speaker 1: childcare center leaders and directors and so on, and people
[23:14] Speaker 1: running organizations, and hopefully they'll send the value and what
[23:16] Speaker 1: you can share. We will link to your details in
[23:18] Speaker 1: the show notes so that they can book you for events.
[23:21] Speaker 1: You've been so generous and what you've shared. Really appreciate
[23:23] Speaker 1: you being on the podcast today.
[23:25] Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me.
[23:26] Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roulant. From
[23:29] Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides our research, admin and other support,
[23:33] Speaker 1: and if you'd like more info, visit happy families dot
[23:35] Speaker 1: com dot au

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.