# Millenial Dads (When Mum Goes Away)

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 3 Sep 2026, 15 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/178612aa-a595-4948-8769-b4ac001de8bd/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

What if trying to create the perfect family moment is the very thing getting in the way? After a week away with three of their daughters, Kylie realised she’d arrived with a clear picture of how their time together should look. The reality was completely different. And it turned out to be better. Justin and Kylie unpack the pressure parents put on themselves to get the “recipe” right, why our kids need room to make their own choices, and how letting go of control can create more connection. Justin also shares what happened when Kylie left him juggling work and parenting, including one spectacular diary fail, and why simple, low-pressure time together can be some of the best parenting we do. KEY POINTS • Why parenting doesn’t come with a guaranteed recipe for happy, successful kids • How expectations can turn good family experiences into disappointments • Why giving kids space can lead to more openness and connection • The power of simple, unstructured time with your child • Why presence, patience and understanding often matter more than elaborate plans - Justin’s lesson in juggling work and parenting when Kylie went away QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “It’s the simple stuff that makes our families work the best.” RESOURCES MENTIONED What Your Child Needs From You by Justin Coulson ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Notice where you’ve created a “recipe” for how family life should look. • Leave room for your child to choose how they experience a moment. • Swap one carefully planned activity for simple time together. • Focus less on monitoring and more on creating a relationship where your child wants to talk to you. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: Every Friday on the Happy Families podcast, it's I'll do
[0:08] Speaker 1: better tomorrow. We reflect on the week that was. We
[0:10] Speaker 1: talk about what's coming up. We try to give you
[0:12] Speaker 1: some inspo to make your family happier. Or we talk
[0:13] Speaker 1: about your well-being and our well-being and how we can
[0:16] Speaker 1: make life better. Today on the pod, we're going to
[0:18] Speaker 1: be talking about Father's Day because this Sunday we get
[0:21] Speaker 1: to celebrate dads. We're also talking about some research, which
[0:24] Speaker 1: is a little bit of a step away from what
[0:27] Speaker 1: we normally do on Fridays because there's a brand new
[0:29] Speaker 1: book out all about dads. and how being a dad
[0:32] Speaker 1: is really good for your brain and not so much
[0:35] Speaker 1: for your body, but definitely for your brain. And a
[0:38] Speaker 1: bit of news, I'm going away. You've had a big celebration, Kylie,
[0:41] Speaker 1: going away with our girls to America for a week
[0:44] Speaker 1: and a half, two weeks.
[0:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, and you gave me a hard time because I
[0:48] Speaker 2: wasn't taking you, but I took three children. You, on
[0:51] Speaker 2: the other hand, are going solo.
[0:54] Speaker 1: It's Father's Day. It's Father's Day. What am I supposed
[0:56] Speaker 1: to do? I can't take the kids away.
[0:57] Speaker 2: Seriously.
[0:58] Speaker 1: More on that next. It's the Happy Families podcast, real
[1:03] Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
[1:07] Speaker 1: All right, Kylie, we've got a bunch of stuff to
[1:09] Speaker 1: talk about. Let's start with Father's Day. Sunday, I get
[1:12] Speaker 1: to be the, I get to feel special. Tell me.
[1:14] Speaker 2: You get to be the center of attention.
[1:16] Speaker 1: How special am I going to feel?
[1:17] Speaker 2: I think you're the center of attention.
[1:18] Speaker 1: All the time. What have you got planned for me?
[1:22] Speaker 2: I'm not telling you anything. Needless to say.
[1:25] Speaker 1: Have you got anything planned?
[1:26] Speaker 2: No, I don't. You're going on a holiday.
[1:30] Speaker 1: No.
[1:31] Speaker 2: You've like blown our budget.
[1:34] Speaker 1: It's the world's cheapest holiday. It's such a cheap trip. Anyway,
[1:37] Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a sec. So no plans.
[1:40] Speaker 1: It's just going to be a day where I get
[1:41] Speaker 1: to feel special and have all of my family around
[1:43] Speaker 1: me and hugging me and telling me that I'm great.
[1:45] Speaker 2: Now that we have two children who have left the
[1:47] Speaker 2: house and we have two children about to leave the house,
[1:50] Speaker 2: the exciting thing is that they'll all be home.
[1:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And based on yesterday's conversation about AIs and sycophancy,
[2:00] Speaker 1: I'm expecting everybody to be completely sycophantic for Father's Day
[2:04] Speaker 1: for me. Everybody's just got to suck up. Tell me
[2:06] Speaker 1: how awesome I am.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Oh, be sure to let AI print.
[2:10] Speaker 1: No, no, no. You don't have to talk to AI
[2:12] Speaker 1: about it. Just be nice to me. That'll be fine.
[2:14] Speaker 1: That'll be fine.
[2:15] Speaker 2: All right.
[2:16] Speaker 1: There's a brand new book out by Darby Saxby. Professor
[2:18] Speaker 1: Darby Saxby from the University of Southern California has written
[2:21] Speaker 1: a book about dad brain. And I do want to
[2:24] Speaker 1: have just a three-minute chat about that because, well, it's
[2:28] Speaker 1: Father's Day and sometimes– we forget that being a dad
[2:32] Speaker 1: is not just good for kids. It's actually good for dads.
[2:35] Speaker 2: So I find this curious because there isn't a mom
[2:38] Speaker 2: brain out there and they're not telling us that it's
[2:40] Speaker 2: great for us. So why is it so good for dads? Yeah.
[2:43] Speaker 1: So what the research seems to point to is that
[2:46] Speaker 1: dad's cognition and their social lives are better when they
[2:50] Speaker 1: become fathers compared to non-fathers. So there's a whole lot
[2:53] Speaker 1: of research that shows that When you've got an engaged father,
[2:57] Speaker 1: like for your children, if they've got an engaged father
[3:00] Speaker 1: in their life, which is what we're supposed to be
[3:01] Speaker 1: celebrating on Sunday, that the kids are going to do
[3:04] Speaker 1: better in terms of self-regulation, in terms of social skills,
[3:08] Speaker 1: in terms of educational attainment. There's some data that shows
[3:11] Speaker 1: that dads use more novel and bigger words around kids
[3:14] Speaker 1: than little kids, and so kids get a more expansive vocabulary. Incidentally,
[3:18] Speaker 1: I got raked over the coals on– on the internet
[3:21] Speaker 1: because somebody's read my book and I put that into
[3:23] Speaker 1: the book about the importance of fathers in kids' lives.
[3:25] Speaker 1: And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, well,
[3:26] Speaker 1: there's research that's referenced in the back, but somebody's going
[3:29] Speaker 1: for it online about that in one of the book
[3:30] Speaker 1: reviews that I came across. I digress. And we also
[3:35] Speaker 1: know that having a really good hands-on engaged dad is
[3:37] Speaker 1: great for mums. It's good for their life satisfaction, their
[3:41] Speaker 1: relationship satisfaction, can reduce postpartum depression. So being a dad
[3:46] Speaker 1: is really good for the people around dad, But more
[3:49] Speaker 1: recent research seems to indicate that meaning goes up, purpose
[3:55] Speaker 1: goes up, connection goes up, and brain health improves and
[4:00] Speaker 1: mental fitness improves. In other words, if you're a dad
[4:04] Speaker 1: and you're engaged and actively spending time with your children,
[4:09] Speaker 1: you seem to get a whole range of benefits. It's
[4:11] Speaker 1: just really, really healthy for you.
[4:13] Speaker 2: So I'm assuming that's because they don't deal with the
[4:15] Speaker 2: hormonal fluctuations that mums are dealing with. And so they
[4:18] Speaker 2: don't get any of that brain fog. They don't get
[4:20] Speaker 2: any interrupted sleep. They're not having to deal with the
[4:24] Speaker 2: day-to-day stresses of managing children and household chores.
[4:32] Speaker 1: I would say historically you were right, but the data
[4:35] Speaker 1: seems to indicate... So I came across one really interesting
[4:38] Speaker 1: factoid in Darby Saxby's book. She says that Millennial dads
[4:44] Speaker 1: are now spending as much time with their kids as
[4:47] Speaker 1: boomer mums spent with their kids. So boomer mums probably
[4:52] Speaker 1: often said, go outside and play.
[4:53] Speaker 2: I was about to say.
[4:55] Speaker 1: But we know from data that's several decades old now
[4:58] Speaker 1: that boomer mums were very, very much doing the lion's
[5:02] Speaker 1: share of any parent-child interaction, including all the hard stuff
[5:06] Speaker 1: that you've talked about. And there's the phrase Disneyland dad
[5:10] Speaker 1: for a reason, right? Dad just gets to have the fun.
[5:12] Speaker 1: But when you consider that today's dads, millennial dads, are
[5:16] Speaker 1: spending as much time with their kids as boomer mums
[5:19] Speaker 1: once spent, that's been an upward trend for fathers spending
[5:24] Speaker 1: time with their kids for a long time now. I'd
[5:27] Speaker 1: love to.
[5:27] Speaker 2: See the data between boomer mums and mums now.
[5:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I remember reading something about that a
[5:36] Speaker 1: while back. It hasn't changed a heap.
[5:40] Speaker 2: Really?
[5:40] Speaker 1: Yeah. Mums today are definitely spending more time, but it
[5:43] Speaker 1: hasn't increased the way it has for dads.
[5:46] Speaker 2: Interesting.
[5:47] Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact numbers, but definitely the gap
[5:51] Speaker 1: isn't as big for mums.
[5:52] Speaker 2: So the findings are that dads are better off just
[5:57] Speaker 2: about all round. Yeah.
[6:00] Speaker 1: In terms of emotional and social life.
[6:02] Speaker 2: Compared to their non-dad counterparts.
[6:04] Speaker 1: Yep.
[6:05] Speaker 2: What are they putting it down to?
[6:07] Speaker 1: There's one... hypothesis that like, Darby Saxby talks about how
[6:13] Speaker 1: parenthood is better than Botox for preserving your youth because
[6:18] Speaker 1: you have to.
[6:18] Speaker 2: Which is crazy because we feel older having lived half
[6:22] Speaker 2: a century with six children in tow.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Yes.
[6:27] Speaker 2: I sometimes feel a lot older than my 50 years.
[6:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[6:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[6:32] Speaker 1: Basically, kids inspire us to exercise our social brain. We
[6:37] Speaker 1: have to create more connections with others. We tend to
[6:40] Speaker 1: pursue healthier lifestyles. We don't get to optimize and maximize
[6:43] Speaker 1: the way we would if we had no kids, but
[6:46] Speaker 1: it seems that we just do better. There's a neuroscientist
[6:50] Speaker 1: by the name of Anne-Marie Delang, and she and her
[6:53] Speaker 1: researchers from the UK, there's something in the UK called Biobank.
[6:57] Speaker 1: It's like this repository of brain scans of thousands of
[7:01] Speaker 1: participants across Britain. they tested whether parents showed different trajectories
[7:06] Speaker 1: of brain age in middle age and beyond. And what
[7:09] Speaker 1: they found was that the brains of participants with children
[7:13] Speaker 1: looked like younger brains versus the brains of participants without children.
[7:18] Speaker 1: So it showed up for both mothers and fathers, but
[7:21] Speaker 1: men specifically benefited from it. There was another study that
[7:25] Speaker 1: came out of the University of Southern California. Men with
[7:28] Speaker 1: two children had an estimated brain age difference that was
[7:33] Speaker 1: younger than childless peers. And if you had three or
[7:35] Speaker 1: more children, it was an even bigger advantage. And I've
[7:38] Speaker 1: got six kids, which is why my brain is still
[7:40] Speaker 1: the equivalent of what it was when I was 22.
[7:42] Speaker 2: I can't believe you said that.
[7:46] Speaker 1: I have knocked it around a little bit, haven't I?
[7:49] Speaker 2: When we were prepping for this podcast, you shared a
[7:51] Speaker 2: couple of things that really jumped out at me. One
[7:54] Speaker 2: of those was that education, the more educated parents were,
[7:58] Speaker 2: and specifically dads, the more satisfaction levels they had. experience
[8:03] Speaker 2: and the greater impact they had on their children. Why
[8:07] Speaker 2: is that the case? In some ways, it sounds like
[8:10] Speaker 2: a really silly question, but we've heard this time and
[8:13] Speaker 2: time again in so much of the research that education
[8:16] Speaker 2: plays such a profound impact in the lives of children
[8:20] Speaker 2: and specifically families.
[8:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, highly educated dads just spend more time, put more
[8:25] Speaker 1: energy into parenthood. People who haven't been through university do
[8:30] Speaker 1: spend a little bit less time with kids.
[8:34] Speaker 2: I find that curious, though, because the most educated people
[8:36] Speaker 2: are often the ones that are working the longest hours, right?
[8:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe. I don't know about how that breaks down.
[8:43] Speaker 1: What the research seems to say is that when it
[8:45] Speaker 1: comes to interactive activities like reading to kids and playing
[8:48] Speaker 1: and talking, the widening gap in paternal engagement with kids
[8:55] Speaker 1: is it really exists and it's getting bigger. It seems
[8:59] Speaker 1: that regardless of the time and the capacity, that educated
[9:04] Speaker 1: dads seem to come home and have the capacity or
[9:08] Speaker 1: the willingness to engage with their kids in positive, productive
[9:11] Speaker 1: ways in a way that less educated dads don't. Of course,
[9:15] Speaker 1: we're speaking about averages here. There's plenty of dads that
[9:17] Speaker 1: haven't been to university that spend really great quality time
[9:20] Speaker 1: with their kids. We've We've got neighbors who have been
[9:23] Speaker 1: exactly like that. So it's certainly not worth not throwing
[9:25] Speaker 1: a blanket over the whole population. But yeah, that's what
[9:27] Speaker 1: the data shows. So anyway, we'll wrap that up. If
[9:29] Speaker 1: you're interested, we'll link to Darby Saxby's book in the
[9:32] Speaker 1: show notes. It's a really fascinating read. After the break,
[9:34] Speaker 1: why Mrs. Happy Families is not as excited about my
[9:38] Speaker 1: Father's Day getaway as I am. We're back. It's the
[9:47] Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. So, Mrs. Happy Families, you're not as
[9:51] Speaker 1: enthusiastic about me going away the day after Father's Day
[9:55] Speaker 1: as I am. Why is that?
[9:57] Speaker 2: In the last three years. Yes. You've had a surfing accident.
[10:01] Speaker 1: Where I broke my neck and my back.
[10:04] Speaker 2: A bike riding accident.
[10:05] Speaker 1: Where I was found unconscious on the side of the
[10:07] Speaker 1: road after coming off my bike, apparently, because I don't
[10:09] Speaker 1: remember it.
[10:10] Speaker 2: And suffered amnesia.
[10:11] Speaker 1: Concussed for a week and suffered amnesia. But the bike
[10:13] Speaker 1: computer says I was going 70 k's an hour when
[10:15] Speaker 1: I came off the bike.
[10:16] Speaker 2: And now you've decided that you're going to go try
[10:18] Speaker 2: freediving again.
[10:19] Speaker 1: Yes.
[10:20] Speaker 2: And for those of you who don't know what freediving is,
[10:23] Speaker 2: it's an opportunity for some idiot to see how long
[10:27] Speaker 2: they can hold their breath under the water for.
[10:31] Speaker 1: You don't seem impressed. I'm not. No. What is it
[10:33] Speaker 1: about me and risky activities? Did you know I've never
[10:36] Speaker 1: been in a fight? Like, I don't go out and
[10:38] Speaker 1: chase stuff that can be dangerous.
[10:40] Speaker 2: Well, you're not that crazy.
[10:42] Speaker 1: I don't want to do things that are dangerous. Like,
[10:43] Speaker 1: I think MMA is bonkers.
[10:45] Speaker 2: I don't.
[10:46] Speaker 1: I do things that have risk, but there's a difference
[10:48] Speaker 1: between risk and danger. I talk about this all the time, right?
[10:50] Speaker 1: Like we want our kids to be doing risky things,
[10:52] Speaker 1: but not dangerous things. So risk is where you can
[10:54] Speaker 1: assess the danger and determine whether or not you should
[10:56] Speaker 1: take the next step. Danger is just, you've got no
[11:00] Speaker 1: sense of how risky it is. So therefore it's just
[11:03] Speaker 1: plain dangerous. Like a toddler playing near the road, that's dangerous.
[11:06] Speaker 1: Teenager playing near the road, they can assess that there's
[11:08] Speaker 1: some risk and they can work out how they're going
[11:10] Speaker 1: to play so they can stay away from the road.
[11:12] Speaker 2: Well, just so you know, I do plan on ringing
[11:14] Speaker 2: your friend and making sure that he's very aware of
[11:19] Speaker 2: the rules.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Hey, let's talk about my friend for a minute. We've
[11:21] Speaker 1: just talked about Darby Saxby's book, but it's Father's Day
[11:24] Speaker 1: on Sunday. If you're looking for a last-minute Father's Day
[11:27] Speaker 1: gift idea, I had him on the podcast a couple
[11:29] Speaker 1: of weeks back. Aunt Williams is my friend. He's just
[11:32] Speaker 1: released his memoir. Ant is a two-time world record holder
[11:37] Speaker 1: doing free diving under the ice. If you know what
[11:39] Speaker 1: free diving is, by the way, and Kylie hasn't explained
[11:42] Speaker 1: it enough, it's where you take a really big deep
[11:43] Speaker 1: breath and then you go under the water. Ant has
[11:46] Speaker 1: gone under the ice in the Arctic Circle in a
[11:48] Speaker 1: lake up there to, I think it was 73 metres.
[11:50] Speaker 1: 73 metres. That means he did 146 metres. 73 down,
[11:51] Speaker 1: 73 back up. Under the ice. Under the ice. And
[11:52] Speaker 1: he also did a dive that was.
[12:02] Speaker 1: I think it was 184 meters from point A to
[12:05] Speaker 1: point B under the ice in one of those lakes.
[12:08] Speaker 1: Just amazing. So he's outstanding. I did feel pretty good though.
[12:12] Speaker 1: I got a message from him the other day. I
[12:14] Speaker 1: sent him what I was up to with my breath
[12:15] Speaker 1: holds because I've been sitting in the living room, in
[12:18] Speaker 1: the lounge chair, doing a whole lot of what they
[12:20] Speaker 1: call oxygen tables, which is where you take a big
[12:22] Speaker 1: deep breath and then you hold your breath for a
[12:23] Speaker 1: while and then you recover and then you do it again,
[12:25] Speaker 1: but for a little bit longer. And I set a
[12:27] Speaker 1: new record the other day and I messaged to him.
[12:31] Speaker 1: and said, guess what? I just did this. And I'm
[12:33] Speaker 1: 15 seconds in front of him. But that's because he
[12:36] Speaker 1: hasn't been training. He's only just getting into the training.
[12:38] Speaker 1: I think that he'll be triple what I can do
[12:41] Speaker 1: by the time we get to our destination. Well, I
[12:44] Speaker 1: don't like it. I don't like it at all.
[12:46] Speaker 2: But I also have a lot of respect for Ant
[12:49] Speaker 2: and for his skill and for his capacity. And I
[12:52] Speaker 2: am trusting him.
[12:54] Speaker 1: And I need this. I need to decompress. And I
[12:58] Speaker 1: can't think of a better way to do it than.
[13:01] Speaker 2: To hold my breath. Do you know that?
[13:04] Speaker 1: When you're stressed out, your brain goes crazy, right? You
[13:06] Speaker 1: think about all the stuff that's going wrong in your life.
[13:08] Speaker 1: You think about the kids or you think about the
[13:09] Speaker 1: business or you think about, I don't know, the tax
[13:12] Speaker 1: office or you think about your clients. You think about
[13:13] Speaker 1: all the stuff that's heavy. But when you're under the
[13:17] Speaker 1: water and you're down 15 or 20 metres and you've
[13:21] Speaker 1: got nothing to think about at all except the oxygen
[13:23] Speaker 1: in your lungs and.
[13:24] Speaker 2: You should take up crocheting.
[13:25] Speaker 1: It's really good.
[13:26] Speaker 2: It's much safer too. I shouldn't be surprised because when
[13:30] Speaker 2: we first got married, your mum and actually your grandparents
[13:33] Speaker 2: both told me that as a two-year-old, you would get
[13:36] Speaker 2: so worked up about things that you would hold your
[13:38] Speaker 2: breath until you blacked out. I haven't passed out yet.
[13:40] Speaker 2: And your grandfather used to throw you under the tap
[13:43] Speaker 2: to try and make you stop.
[13:45] Speaker 1: Holding your breath. And I've been training for this.
[13:47] Speaker 2: You've been training for this your whole life.
[13:49] Speaker 1: Haven't passed out while I've been training. Last time I
[13:52] Speaker 1: passed out, other than my bike crash, was when I
[13:54] Speaker 1: was a toddler. Oh, goodness.
[13:57] Speaker 2: Anyway, happy Father's Day, Giles.
[13:58] Speaker 1: That's our I'll do better tomorrow. To all the dads,
[14:01] Speaker 1: happy Father's Day. To all the mums who are doing
[14:03] Speaker 1: it solo, congratulations. We really hope that you have a
[14:07] Speaker 1: weekend where you feel supported and loved because we know
[14:10] Speaker 1: that when you're doing it on your own, it can
[14:11] Speaker 1: be really, really, really, really hard. We will be back
[14:15] Speaker 1: with episodes that we have recorded ahead of time so
[14:18] Speaker 1: that while I'm on my week-long trip, I don't have
[14:22] Speaker 1: to learn how to push buttons. Holding my breath. Yeah,
[14:24] Speaker 1: we've got more podcast episodes for you. Heaps of good
[14:27] Speaker 1: stuff next week. So make sure you come and join
[14:28] Speaker 1: us again for that. The Happy Families podcast, sound and
[14:31] Speaker 1: audio engineering by Justin Roulon from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds
[14:34] Speaker 1: looks after our admin and other support. And I think
[14:37] Speaker 1: that's about it. Happy Father's Day. Have a great weekend.
[14:39] Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again on Monday.

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