# "Boys" Book Release - Kylie Interviews Justin

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 15 Jun 2026, 22 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/dcbcae0f-bf30-4b5a-8c67-b4600099ef19/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

Boys are struggling—and many parents can feel it. In this special episode, Kylie Coulson turns the tables and interviews Dr Justin Coulson about his brand-new book, Boys: Building Strong Young Men From the Inside Out. From alarming statistics about boys' education and wellbeing to the growing influence of the manosphere, Justin shares what he discovered after years of research, countless conversations, and one deeply personal loss that changed the direction of the book forever. This is a hopeful, practical conversation about what boys need most, what healthy masculinity really looks like, and how parents can help raise boys who are strong, kind, capable, and connected. KEY POINTS • Why Justin felt compelled to write a book about boys • The heartbreaking family experience that reshaped the book • The confronting statistics every parent should know • Why boys are falling behind in education • The dangers—and appeal—of online male influencers • Why the conversation about "toxic masculinity" isn't helping boys • The power of connection over correction • How positive male role models can change a boy's future • What healthy masculinity actually looks like • Justin's definition of a good man QUOTE OF THE EPISODE "You cannot lecture a boy into becoming a good man. Instead of trying to lecture him into it, love him into it." RESOURCES MENTIONED • Boys: Building Strong Young Men From the Inside Out by Justin Coulson • Happy Families • Michelle Mitchell ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Prioritise connection before correction when your child is struggling. • Look for opportunities to encourage your son's strengths rather than focusing only on mistakes. • Be intentional about surrounding boys with positive male role models. • Listen more than you lecture. • Help boys develop a healthy understanding of what it means to be a good man. • Remember that growth takes time—stay patient, present, and hopeful. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: It is a big day today. Hello, welcome to the
[0:08] Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. I'm so excited the brand new book
[0:11] Speaker 1: Boys Building Strong young Men from the inside out. It's here,
[0:17] Speaker 1: It's arrived, It's on the shelves of the bookstores. And
[0:20] Speaker 1: today we're going to talk boys.
[0:23] Speaker 2: Well today, actually you are going to sit in the
[0:26] Speaker 2: passenger seat because I am going to drive our podcast.
[0:31] Speaker 2: I thought it might be great if I interviewed the
[0:34] Speaker 2: man behind the book.
[0:35] Speaker 1: I love that you're You've gone all formal. When you
[0:38] Speaker 1: run this podcast, you take over in a big way.
[0:42] Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to ask you a whole heap of questions.
[0:44] Speaker 1: I feel like I've got the school principal reading down
[0:47] Speaker 1: my neck and telling me I'm in trouble.
[0:49] Speaker 2: You're terrible. Today we're going to have a great conversation.
[0:52] Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you some questions, and we're going
[0:54] Speaker 2: to find out how this book actually came about and
[0:59] Speaker 2: what led you to go down the path you went
[1:01] Speaker 2: specifically with the book. I'm going to give you a
[1:04] Speaker 2: lightning round I love and I'm going to see if
[1:06] Speaker 2: I can stump you once or twice.
[1:07] Speaker 1: I love it.
[1:08] Speaker 2: And then we're gonna pull it all together at.
[1:09] Speaker 1: The end, you're looking at all your notes like you
[1:11] Speaker 1: you've come prepared. I told you that you needed to
[1:13] Speaker 1: prep but I wasn't quite sure that this. Didn't expect
[1:15] Speaker 1: this is where we'd end up. Let's see how it
[1:17] Speaker 1: goes the interview that I've just found out about commencers next. Hello,
[1:25] Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Family Podcast.
[1:26] Speaker 2: Job.
[1:27] Speaker 1: I'm so used to just doing it all right, you
[1:30] Speaker 1: do it, You've got your notes. I'm just going to
[1:32] Speaker 1: be the passenger you told me you were driving.
[1:36] Speaker 2: Hello. Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
[1:39] Speaker 2: real life parenting solutions every day. We're the most downloaded
[1:43] Speaker 2: parenting podcast in Australia and today we're talking to doctor
[1:48] Speaker 2: Justin Coulson about his brand new book Boys.
[1:53] Speaker 1: I wish that we were videoing this. We must be
[1:54] Speaker 1: one of the only podcasts that doesn't video. But you
[1:56] Speaker 1: are so animated, your hands are going everywhere like you
[1:59] Speaker 1: are really in control of this podcast. Okay, so let's
[2:02] Speaker 1: talk about it, because yeah, I'm pumped. The books out,
[2:05] Speaker 1: it's on shelves, you can you can buy it right now.
[2:07] Speaker 1: You can walk into a bookstore and a shopping center.
[2:09] Speaker 1: If if you still do those things or get online
[2:11] Speaker 1: and they'll literally they'll post it to you.
[2:13] Speaker 2: Stop talking. Okay, sorry, sorry, I haven't asked you a
[2:16] Speaker 2: question yet to do this so hard. So I may
[2:20] Speaker 2: not have written the book, and I may not have
[2:23] Speaker 2: had the sleepless nights that you had, but I have
[2:26] Speaker 2: stood beside you through thick and thin while this book
[2:29] Speaker 2: has come about. And one of the number one questions
[2:35] Speaker 2: that people have wanted to know when you have said
[2:38] Speaker 2: that your next book was all about boys being a
[2:42] Speaker 2: father of all girls, is what made you feel equipped
[2:47] Speaker 2: to write a book on this topic.
[2:49] Speaker 1: If I had a dollar for every time I've been
[2:51] Speaker 1: asked that question, and I started doing a cheeky response
[2:55] Speaker 1: when people would ask me, like over the last few years,
[2:57] Speaker 1: I'd be like, there's plenty of male doctors who have
[3:00] Speaker 1: about childbirth, right, Like, just because you have an experience,
[3:03] Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you don't have a whole lot
[3:04] Speaker 1: of research and a whole lot of other kinds of experience.
[3:07] Speaker 1: And ultimately, I'm not sure if that's the most helpful analogy.
[3:11] Speaker 1: You didn't look commenced by it when I just said it.
[3:13] Speaker 2: I think the one that I've heard you say is
[3:15] Speaker 2: there's lots of male gynecologists out there.
[3:18] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the same same. I don't know if that's
[3:21] Speaker 1: but here's the thing. I've got skin in the game.
[3:25] Speaker 1: We've got six daughters. They're interacting with boys every single day.
[3:29] Speaker 1: I work with and talk to and even mentor a
[3:31] Speaker 1: lot of young men. And these young men are the
[3:35] Speaker 1: ones who are growing into the men of our future.
[3:36] Speaker 1: They're going to marry our daughters, and they're going to
[3:38] Speaker 1: be running our societies and as well lots of girls.
[3:42] Speaker 1: But right now there's a whole lot of challenges that
[3:44] Speaker 1: boys are experiencing. And I had this really beautiful experience.
[3:47] Speaker 1: I hope, I hope that she doesn't mind me sharing this.
[3:50] Speaker 1: One of my colleagues somebody else who does a lot
[3:51] Speaker 1: of this parenting stuff, Michelle Mitchell. She writes great books,
[3:55] Speaker 1: she does fantastic presentations, really really wonderfully respected, and she
[4:00] Speaker 1: was approached by her publisher who said, we think you
[4:03] Speaker 1: should write a book about boys. And she was so
[4:05] Speaker 1: kind when I was speaking to her after this experience,
[4:08] Speaker 1: she said, I knew that you were working on one,
[4:11] Speaker 1: but I actually told the publishers that you were and
[4:13] Speaker 1: that I wouldn't do it as a result, but more
[4:15] Speaker 1: than anything, I just think you're the right person to
[4:17] Speaker 1: do it. Like having that vote of confidence from a
[4:19] Speaker 1: colleague who I really think it just has a beautiful
[4:23] Speaker 1: warmth and a wonderful way of engaging with parents and
[4:26] Speaker 1: supporting them.
[4:27] Speaker 2: And a mother of boys and a mother.
[4:29] Speaker 1: Of two boys herself, for her to say that it
[4:32] Speaker 1: gave me. It just gave me the boost that I needed,
[4:34] Speaker 1: the shot in the arm, because every now and again
[4:35] Speaker 1: I've wanted myself should I shouldn't I I can tell
[4:38] Speaker 1: you right now with the result, I'm so glad that
[4:40] Speaker 1: I did it, and I think that parents are also
[4:43] Speaker 1: going to feel that way. So yeah, skin in the game,
[4:45] Speaker 1: and it just felt like it was the right book
[4:47] Speaker 1: at the right time, and I feel like I was
[4:49] Speaker 1: the right person to do it as well.
[4:51] Speaker 2: How much of Logan's experience this is your nephew who
[4:55] Speaker 2: committed suicide. This is a little bit of a tough
[4:58] Speaker 2: one about how much of your nephew Logan's story fueled
[5:04] Speaker 2: your need to write this book.
[5:06] Speaker 1: Okay, so the book is dedicated to my dad and
[5:09] Speaker 1: also the Logan. It's a book about boys, that's book
[5:12] Speaker 1: about masculinity. I'd been working on the book for a
[5:15] Speaker 1: couple of years. I think about a year and a
[5:17] Speaker 1: half when we've lost Logan to suicide, and I kind
[5:23] Speaker 1: of threw the book out at that point and just thought,
[5:26] Speaker 1: I need to write this differently. This book is not
[5:28] Speaker 1: going to help parents the way they need to be helped.
[5:30] Speaker 1: There was something about losing Logan that sharpened my focus,
[5:35] Speaker 1: that brought the gravity of what I was writing about
[5:38] Speaker 1: home in a way that I don't think anything else could.
[5:41] Speaker 1: And it was just a really impactful episode. I don't
[5:46] Speaker 1: write about it in the book. I've dedicated the book
[5:48] Speaker 1: to him, but I haven't really written about it in
[5:50] Speaker 1: the book. I want to give parents hope, and a
[5:52] Speaker 1: story like that maybe doesn't. But that is what inspired
[5:55] Speaker 1: me to make this book. That's probably the reason that
[5:57] Speaker 1: I agonized over it the way that I did. I
[5:59] Speaker 1: would say the book would have been finished two years
[6:01] Speaker 1: ago had we not lost Logan. But in losing Logan,
[6:05] Speaker 1: it made me rethink so much about this book and
[6:09] Speaker 1: the intensity with which I wrote, and my desire to
[6:12] Speaker 1: get it as right as I could is very much
[6:14] Speaker 1: based on that shattering experience.
[6:17] Speaker 2: So my next question, you've kind of answered, But I
[6:20] Speaker 2: wonder if there's any more that you'd add to it.
[6:23] Speaker 2: This is your eleventh book, and just in case anyone
[6:28] Speaker 2: was wondering, I have sat through.
[6:29] Speaker 1: All of them. Yeah, yeah, very much. Yeah.
[6:32] Speaker 2: But why was it different to write this one.
[6:36] Speaker 1: Well, logan is a massive reason that it was different.
[6:41] Speaker 1: I would also say when I talk to parents about
[6:44] Speaker 1: raising their kids, they're questions about boys carry a weight
[6:47] Speaker 1: that questions about girls don't. I mentioned this in yesterday's
[6:51] Speaker 1: conversation as we were sort of reading some of the book.
[6:54] Speaker 1: It just feels like the whole world is on the
[6:56] Speaker 1: side of girls, and rightly so. But it feels like
[6:58] Speaker 1: a lot of people are against boys or are questioning
[7:00] Speaker 1: whether or not there's anything we can do for boys,
[7:02] Speaker 1: and are really seeing boys as the problem. So when
[7:04] Speaker 1: we talk about girls, most people say the world has
[7:07] Speaker 1: not supported girls, and therefore we need to get behind them.
[7:09] Speaker 1: So therefore everyone's behind girls, which is wonderful. I don't
[7:13] Speaker 1: think that that same attitude exists when it comes to boys,
[7:16] Speaker 1: and parents are feeling it parents are boys. Sometimes they'll
[7:20] Speaker 1: tell me that it's like, I don't like telling everyone
[7:21] Speaker 1: that I've got boys, because I feel like I'm being
[7:23] Speaker 1: judged because there are some boys out there that are
[7:25] Speaker 1: doing things challenging. So once again trying to give hope,
[7:29] Speaker 1: trying to define masculinely, try to talk about how we
[7:32] Speaker 1: can create structures and systems in our families, in our homes,
[7:35] Speaker 1: and in our society. They're going to support boys to
[7:37] Speaker 1: do the best versions of themselves that they can be.
[7:39] Speaker 1: It was an ordeal. It was harder to write than
[7:41] Speaker 1: anything else, and the thinking that I had to do
[7:46] Speaker 1: to get this together was challenging. Oh, I should also add,
[7:49] Speaker 1: typically when I write a book, I write it, I
[7:52] Speaker 1: do a second edit, maybe a third edit, the publisher
[7:55] Speaker 1: goes through it, we do a final edit, and it
[7:57] Speaker 1: goes to print. Like that makes it sound very easys.
[8:00] Speaker 1: They've always been challenging, But with this one you've watched,
[8:03] Speaker 1: I think I've done approximately fifteen drafts of this book.
[8:07] Speaker 2: I stopped believing you when you said it was done.
[8:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally did. What I meant was this draft
[8:12] Speaker 1: is done, and now I'm going to take a month
[8:14] Speaker 1: off and then I'm going to write it again. So
[8:17] Speaker 1: I've never written this many drafts of a book. And
[8:19] Speaker 1: the feedback like I went out to there's probably been
[8:22] Speaker 1: twenty to thirty different people who have all either read
[8:26] Speaker 1: the entire book or parts of it, Psychologists, people who
[8:29] Speaker 1: work with men and boys, people who run not for
[8:31] Speaker 1: profits for men and boys, regular parents across the board.
[8:35] Speaker 1: I've had so much input from people who are really
[8:38] Speaker 1: really doing it, and that made it a harder to write,
[8:42] Speaker 1: but also made it a vastly better book as well.
[8:44] Speaker 1: So that would be what I would say without getting
[8:47] Speaker 1: even deeper into the process.
[8:48] Speaker 2: And then my part two to that question is did
[8:52] Speaker 2: it feel different finishing this book compared to your others?
[8:55] Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I cried. I felt relief when I feel
[9:00] Speaker 1: each other books, but I just I felt yeah. And
[9:04] Speaker 1: it's so funny as well, because every book that I've finished,
[9:08] Speaker 1: as I read back through it later on. I mean,
[9:10] Speaker 1: there are some books that I don't sell anymore. I
[9:12] Speaker 1: know that they've helped people, but I don't carry them
[9:14] Speaker 1: around the country and sell them when I'm giving talks
[9:16] Speaker 1: anymore because I feel like my my more recent work
[9:18] Speaker 1: has been better.
[9:20] Speaker 2: I mean, you would hope. So, yeah, absolutely, we learn,
[9:22] Speaker 2: we grow, we improve.
[9:23] Speaker 1: But people still bring those books to me to sign
[9:25] Speaker 1: and they're like, can you please sign it? Because it's
[9:27] Speaker 1: made like those books have helped people's families I know it.
[9:30] Speaker 1: I'm grateful for it. I'm I'm still proud of the books.
[9:33] Speaker 1: But gee, i'd write all of them, most of them
[9:37] Speaker 1: quite differently. If I was to go again this book,
[9:40] Speaker 1: I know it's had just been done. No, no, no, no,
[9:42] Speaker 1: this is this book though, Like I read it when
[9:44] Speaker 1: I had to do the audio version a couple of
[9:46] Speaker 1: months ago in the studio, I closed it and I
[9:49] Speaker 1: just thought, yeah, I'm content. I'm genuinely I'm satisfied.
[9:56] Speaker 2: The data on boys is pretty confronting in the book.
[10:00] Speaker 2: What was the single statistic that stopped you in your tracks?
[10:04] Speaker 1: There are so many stats in this book, but I've
[10:07] Speaker 1: tried to make them really accessible and readable and part
[10:09] Speaker 1: of a narrative. But there was one stat that I
[10:13] Speaker 1: want to single out here because it highlights so much
[10:16] Speaker 1: of why it's code read for so many of our boys.
[10:19] Speaker 1: So the data shows that in primary school, for every
[10:23] Speaker 1: ten girls who are suspended, and the reality is it's
[10:25] Speaker 1: pretty hard to get ten girls suspended, but for every
[10:27] Speaker 1: ten girls that suspended suspended, there are fifty seven boys. Wow,
[10:32] Speaker 1: so it's nearly six times the number of boys who
[10:34] Speaker 1: are suspended then girls in primary school. Now that's kind
[10:37] Speaker 1: of an eye opening stat anyway, because in primary school, like,
[10:41] Speaker 1: can you how bad do you have to be to
[10:42] Speaker 1: get suspended from.
[10:42] Speaker 2: Pro I was going to say, I don't actually think
[10:44] Speaker 2: I know personally know a girl who's been suspended.
[10:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, And in those early years kindergarten, first grade, second grade,
[10:50] Speaker 1: or prep, depending on what the state you're in, it's
[10:53] Speaker 1: almost all boys. As they get older, that's when the
[10:56] Speaker 1: girls start to sort of trickle through. The reason that
[10:59] Speaker 1: I extracted that off the top of my head as
[11:02] Speaker 1: you ask that question, it's because of the downstream effects
[11:06] Speaker 1: of that. See, every time you take a child, we'll
[11:10] Speaker 1: say a boy in this case, because they're six times
[11:11] Speaker 1: more likely in primary school. Every time you take a
[11:13] Speaker 1: child out of the classroom, that boy then goes home
[11:16] Speaker 1: and he's excluded socially, which means that his relationships don't
[11:19] Speaker 1: move on in the same way that everybody else is doing.
[11:21] Speaker 1: When he comes back, children see him differently because he's
[11:22] Speaker 1: been in trouble maker, because he's been in trouble and
[11:25] Speaker 1: caused difficulty. The teachers will treat suspended children differently. Quite
[11:30] Speaker 1: often there is a bias that has been measured, and
[11:32] Speaker 1: I talk about that in the book, and that child
[11:35] Speaker 1: also feels less competent because he's not up to date
[11:37] Speaker 1: with the work. As he feels less competent, he's more
[11:39] Speaker 1: likely to put his head on the table, stare out
[11:40] Speaker 1: the window, niggles, somebody kicks, somebody, react poorly because he
[11:44] Speaker 1: doesn't know how to do it. He feels like he's
[11:46] Speaker 1: been forced into this situation, and the cycle continues. It
[11:50] Speaker 1: gets worse and worse and worse, until we see boys
[11:52] Speaker 1: checking out. One of the things that blew me away
[11:55] Speaker 1: was just how many boys said I feel like I'm
[11:58] Speaker 1: targeted as a student at school, like there's a really
[12:01] Speaker 1: big challenge. And if you multiplied that not just from
[12:03] Speaker 1: those early primary years, but into the later primary years
[12:06] Speaker 1: and then at a high school, it explains part of
[12:08] Speaker 1: the reason why we see many boys dropping out early,
[12:11] Speaker 1: not doing as well in all the standardized, nationalized tests,
[12:14] Speaker 1: why they're less likely to go to university, and why
[12:16] Speaker 1: so many of them are less likely to thrive to
[12:19] Speaker 1: like one in eight one in eight grade nine boys
[12:22] Speaker 1: is functionally illiterate.
[12:25] Speaker 2: In today's day and age. That just blows my.
[12:28] Speaker 1: It's unacceptable in today's in our modern society. It is unacceptable,
[12:33] Speaker 1: full stop end of story. So then there are a
[12:36] Speaker 1: million other stats, so we need to take a break.
[12:38] Speaker 2: Hang on a sec. This is my podcast.
[12:41] Speaker 1: Sorry driving, I'm so sorry I took over.
[12:43] Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to do a lightning round.
[12:46] Speaker 2: I'm going to try and stump you, right, and then
[12:49] Speaker 2: we might have one or two presidents at the other land.
[12:51] Speaker 2: Stay with us. We're back. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
[13:02] Speaker 2: I'm interviewing doctor Justin Colson, the man behind of the
[13:06] Speaker 2: book Boys. Right, So, lightning round, I teased everyone, We're
[13:10] Speaker 2: going to do it.
[13:11] Speaker 1: Okay, I'm ready.
[13:12] Speaker 2: Okay, Remember, a lightning round means that you only answer
[13:16] Speaker 2: really short answers. I know, yep, you talk for me,
[13:19] Speaker 2: don't overthink no, all right, Okay, boy mum or boy dad?
[13:23] Speaker 2: Who has it harder?
[13:25] Speaker 1: Boy? Mums? Why? Because they do stress about stuff more
[13:29] Speaker 1: like the heavy hitting questions that I get, the worried
[13:32] Speaker 1: books that I get. I get dads who are worried
[13:35] Speaker 1: about their sons without question, But mums carry that weight
[13:39] Speaker 1: in a way that I just don't see on the
[13:41] Speaker 1: shoulders and in the faces of dads. Mums are the
[13:44] Speaker 1: ones who are going, oh my goodness, I'm.
[13:46] Speaker 2: Dying here one thing you did as a parent of
[13:48] Speaker 2: daughters that you would do differently if you had sons.
[13:52] Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really good one. We didn't put any
[13:55] Speaker 1: of our kids into gymnastics, and if I had sons,
[13:58] Speaker 1: I would put them into gymnastics.
[14:00] Speaker 2: Saying that now, because you're watching all the guys in
[14:01] Speaker 2: the gym muscle up and they all did gymnastics.
[14:06] Speaker 1: The strongest man I know, all the guys who can
[14:08] Speaker 1: do all these calisthenics moves like planches and muscle ups
[14:10] Speaker 1: and dips and whatever else, they were all gymnasts when
[14:14] Speaker 1: they were kids. Like gymnastics makes strong boys. I would
[14:16] Speaker 1: love to change the narrative around gymnastics in Australia because
[14:21] Speaker 1: what I'm about to say is not appropriate in twenty
[14:23] Speaker 1: twenty six, but I'm going to say it anyway. When
[14:25] Speaker 1: I was a kid, if a boy was doing gymnastics,
[14:28] Speaker 1: he would have been remembered by nineteen seventy five. Baby,
[14:31] Speaker 1: he would have been absolutely pilloried and called every homosexual
[14:37] Speaker 1: slew you can imagine. And yet, oh my goodness, the
[14:41] Speaker 1: guys that I see in the gym who can do
[14:42] Speaker 1: all the gymnastics stuff, the handstands like their shoulders there anyway.
[14:47] Speaker 1: That's my answer. Gymnastics, lightning around. I don't get a
[14:50] Speaker 1: second bite at this.
[14:51] Speaker 2: Andrew Tait or a wet sock. Which one is more
[14:53] Speaker 2: useful to a teenage boy?
[14:55] Speaker 1: Oh, wet sock every day of the year.
[14:57] Speaker 2: What's it going to do with a wet sock?
[15:00] Speaker 1: Nothing? But that's better than what he's going to do
[15:02] Speaker 1: with Andrew Tate. I know it's a lightning round. Let
[15:04] Speaker 1: me add some nuance. One of the reasons that Andrew
[15:06] Speaker 1: Tate is popular is because he does say stuff that
[15:08] Speaker 1: is good and I cringe saying it. I hate saying it.
[15:12] Speaker 1: I wish I wasn't saying it. But writing the book,
[15:14] Speaker 1: I trolled through heaps of Andrew Tate stuff and he
[15:16] Speaker 1: is putrid. He's absolutely foul. I will never endorse the
[15:21] Speaker 1: guy and the people like him. But he says enough
[15:24] Speaker 1: stuff that's good that kids go, oh, this is useful,
[15:28] Speaker 1: which makes the other stuff easier to swallow. But yeah,
[15:32] Speaker 1: I would rather if I had a son, I would
[15:33] Speaker 1: rather give him a wet sock than access to Andrew Tate.
[15:36] Speaker 2: The manuscirit question. The manispere in three.
[15:40] Speaker 1: Words, sewage, dressed up.
[15:46] Speaker 2: One thing. Boys are genuinely better at than girls. And
[15:49] Speaker 2: you can't say sports.
[15:50] Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to say sports. Do you know
[15:54] Speaker 1: what boys are better at than girls? And we've we've
[15:57] Speaker 1: got evidence all over the place for this, their ability
[16:00] Speaker 1: to let go of things.
[16:03] Speaker 2: I was going to say, compartmentalize. Yeah.
[16:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even compartmentalizing though. It's not like they
[16:07] Speaker 1: go on, I'm going to thaw that away for later
[16:09] Speaker 1: and put it in the compartment. They'll say what they
[16:12] Speaker 1: need to say, they'll work through this thing, and then
[16:14] Speaker 1: they just get on with it.
[16:15] Speaker 2: When I say compartmentalized, though, I mean they can listen
[16:18] Speaker 2: to their mates have a hard time and share all
[16:20] Speaker 2: of their kind of you know, emotional junk, and they
[16:24] Speaker 2: recognize that that's theirs, so they can sit with them
[16:27] Speaker 2: in it. But they don't take it home with them,
[16:29] Speaker 2: whereas girls we do, we kind of carry it in
[16:32] Speaker 2: our hearts.
[16:32] Speaker 1: I've got another three words for the manisphere. Okay, hunger
[16:37] Speaker 1: badly fed.
[16:39] Speaker 2: Hmm, all right, last question.
[16:41] Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, I really liked that question. That was a
[16:43] Speaker 1: good one.
[16:43] Speaker 2: Actually, no, that's it.
[16:44] Speaker 1: Boys deserve better. Boys deserve better. There's my three words.
[16:47] Speaker 1: I like them all. Okay, Hey, our times up. I
[16:51] Speaker 1: know you're driving. Do we have any other questions? Yeah?
[16:52] Speaker 2: A couple more quickly? Three more? Can I squeeze three more?
[16:55] Speaker 2: And it's going to do it anyway. There's a lot
[16:56] Speaker 2: of noise about toxic masculinity, but you do you take
[17:00] Speaker 2: a really different approach.
[17:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it? The more we talk about toxic masculinity,
[17:04] Speaker 1: the more boys feel ashamed of, the more girls hate boys.
[17:07] Speaker 1: It's just such an unproductive conversation. What I've also noticed,
[17:10] Speaker 1: is I've been doing the research for this book, is
[17:12] Speaker 1: that people who are really working hard in this area
[17:14] Speaker 1: are starting to use that term less or avoid it completely.
[17:18] Speaker 1: Just I don't think it's helpful to be talking about
[17:21] Speaker 1: half the population of the planet as toxic. It's just
[17:24] Speaker 1: so dreadfully unhelpful. And there are so many good You
[17:27] Speaker 1: and I we're surrounded by really, really good men and boys,
[17:31] Speaker 1: and you would never use the word toxic in relation
[17:34] Speaker 1: to them. So we just need to stop it. And
[17:36] Speaker 1: my focus has been on healthy masculinity. The whole book
[17:38] Speaker 1: is about healthy masculinity. What is it? How can we
[17:40] Speaker 1: help boys to aspire towards it? That's the goal, that's
[17:44] Speaker 1: the end game, that's what we're working towards. So let
[17:46] Speaker 1: you go where you're looking, and if you keep on
[17:48] Speaker 1: looking at the toxic side, that's where you go. But
[17:51] Speaker 1: if you can look at the healthy side, you'll end
[17:53] Speaker 1: up there. That's what we need to focus on.
[17:55] Speaker 2: So if a mum's listening today and she's genuinely scared
[17:58] Speaker 2: or concerned the man her son's becoming, what would you
[18:02] Speaker 2: say to her?
[18:03] Speaker 1: So before I talked to her, I would actually say,
[18:07] Speaker 1: you have really thought about some careful questions here. I'm
[18:11] Speaker 1: so grateful for that question. I would say, Unfortunately, it's
[18:15] Speaker 1: all too understandable that you might be worried about it.
[18:18] Speaker 1: I just the world that your son is navigating is
[18:23] Speaker 1: I genuinely believe it's legitimately harder in some ways than
[18:28] Speaker 1: any previous generation has ever confronted. But then I'd say this,
[18:34] Speaker 1: the fact that you're scared means that you're paying attention,
[18:36] Speaker 1: but maybe paying attention to the wrong things. Either way,
[18:39] Speaker 1: paying attentions where it starts. Most of the moments that
[18:42] Speaker 1: I talked to who are worried because their sons have
[18:46] Speaker 1: some sort of problem where they've slipped up. What happens
[18:50] Speaker 1: is we get into correction and direction mode, and every
[18:53] Speaker 1: conversation becomes a lecture, and every interaction becomes a negotiation
[18:56] Speaker 1: or a battle. And their son, I was going to say,
[18:59] Speaker 1: has quietly close the door on conversation. But sometimes I
[19:01] Speaker 1: don't quietly close the door at all. Sometimes they just
[19:03] Speaker 1: slam the door, right, And so I would say connection
[19:07] Speaker 1: has to come before correction always. You just you cannot
[19:11] Speaker 1: lecture a boy into becoming a good man. At no
[19:15] Speaker 1: point is he going to look at you and say, oh, well,
[19:17] Speaker 1: you've convinced me. Now I've seen the error of my ways.
[19:20] Speaker 1: Thank you for that four hundred and thirty second lecture.
[19:23] Speaker 1: It's finally the one that's sipped me over the edge
[19:25] Speaker 1: of now I'm going to be a good man. That's
[19:26] Speaker 1: not what happens. Again, you get what you're focused on.
[19:29] Speaker 1: So I would say this, instead of trying to lecture
[19:31] Speaker 1: him into becoming a good man, love him into it.
[19:34] Speaker 1: I'm getting weepy just thinking about it. Right, if you
[19:37] Speaker 1: are patient enough and honest enough, and you recognize that
[19:39] Speaker 1: life is long and kids are going to make mistakes,
[19:41] Speaker 1: and if you're willing to just sit with him and
[19:44] Speaker 1: work with him at his pace, in his way, I
[19:47] Speaker 1: think the research is beautifully hopeful there because boys who
[19:52] Speaker 1: have just that one person who is there for them
[19:55] Speaker 1: no matter what, who genuinely believes in them, they're the
[19:59] Speaker 1: ones who usually figure it out. They don't always figure
[20:01] Speaker 1: it out on the spot, and certainly not in our timing,
[20:04] Speaker 1: but they do. And my response to that question ultimately,
[20:07] Speaker 1: for that mom whos struggling is you can be that person.
[20:10] Speaker 1: He just might not be showing you that you are
[20:12] Speaker 1: that person right now.
[20:14] Speaker 2: I know you wrote the book, but I would And
[20:16] Speaker 2: male role models, I was about to say, I would add,
[20:19] Speaker 2: be really intentional about finding positive role models, male role
[20:23] Speaker 2: models that can be part of that village for him.
[20:26] Speaker 2: That's really important.
[20:27] Speaker 1: I've written a whole chapter on it, and it matters
[20:29] Speaker 1: so deeply.
[20:30] Speaker 2: So as we finish up, finish this sentence. A good
[20:33] Speaker 2: man is someone who.
[20:35] Speaker 1: Oh, that's easy, Yeah, I can finish that one. We
[20:38] Speaker 1: can finish quickly. A good man is someone who gives
[20:42] Speaker 1: more than he takes, who adds surplus value. A good
[20:46] Speaker 1: man is a chair stacker, the one who recognizes that
[20:48] Speaker 1: the end of the that the event is over and
[20:50] Speaker 1: somebody needs some help to get everything put together and
[20:52] Speaker 1: put away. A good man is someone who helps the
[20:55] Speaker 1: people around him feel safer and stronger.
[20:59] Speaker 2: The Happy Family. This podcast is produced by Justin Rulan
[21:02] Speaker 2: at Bridge Media. Memhammonds provides additional admin support. And if
[21:06] Speaker 2: you'd like any more info or would like your own.
[21:10] Speaker 1: Copy, I was going to say, you're gonna plug the
[21:12] Speaker 1: book here.
[21:13] Speaker 2: Would like your own copy of Boys? You can find it.
[21:18] Speaker 1: I need to do this bit booktope you dot com,
[21:20] Speaker 1: dot you or wherever you get your books. It's in
[21:22] Speaker 1: stores today and tonight. If you have purchased the book
[21:25] Speaker 1: and you've got your receipt number logged at Happy Families
[21:27] Speaker 1: dot com DOTU, and ask me anything, literally, ask me
[21:30] Speaker 1: anything about boys, and I'm going to do my best
[21:32] Speaker 1: to be helpful for you and your parenting, making your
[21:35] Speaker 1: family happier. Okay, we need to wrap it up there.
[21:36] Speaker 1: You're happy with that one.
[21:38] Speaker 2: I think it's a out

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