# Why Your Kids Only Listen When There’s a Reward

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 27 Sep 2026, 21 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/b0cadbf3-efca-42bd-a410-b4cb008d7b61/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

Your child can spend hours on screens without being asked… but getting them to empty the dishwasher feels impossible. So what’s really going on with motivation? In this episode, Justin and Kylie unpack the psychology of motivation and reveal why rewards, punishments, nagging, and bribery often backfire. You’ll learn the “motivation continuum” — the simple framework that explains why some kids resist everything while others willingly pitch in, help out, and take responsibility. This conversation will completely change the way you think about chores, homework, screens, sibling conflict, and parenting cooperation. If you’re tired of constantly cracking the whip, this episode offers a better way. KEY POINTS • Why rewards and punishments only work short-term • The hidden downside of paying kids for chores • The difference between external and internal motivation • How children move from resistance to ownership • Why “identified motivation” is the parenting sweet spot • The powerful role values play in behaviour • How motivation shifts depending on stress, sleep, and emotions • Practical ways to help kids genuinely want to contribute QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “The question isn’t how motivated your child is. The question is how your child is motivated.” RESOURCES • Boys by Dr Justin Coulson • The “The 3 Es of Effective Discipline” framework • Episode #1093 When the 3 E's Don't Work • Simple Tips for Parents to Boost Motivation in Kids \[Article\] ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Stop relying on rewards as your first strategy • Talk with your child about why certain behaviours matter • Help children identify the value behind responsibilities • Focus on contribution, teamwork, and belonging at home • Remember that motivation is fluid — tired, stressed kids struggle more See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: How does motivation really work? What even is motivation? When
[0:08] Speaker 1: you want your child to be motivated to clean their room,
[0:11] Speaker 1: unpack the dishwasher, wash the car, mow the lawn, be
[0:14] Speaker 1: nice to their brother or their sister, or just show
[0:16] Speaker 1: some respect, do their homework, read a book, you know,
[0:19] Speaker 1: the stuff that we want the kids to be motivated for,
[0:21] Speaker 1: and they seem to have no motivation at all for it.
[0:25] Speaker 1: And yet they're so motivated to do other stuff like
[0:28] Speaker 1: annoy their sister or spend time on screens. You name it.
[0:33] Speaker 1: The kids seem to be motivated for all the stuff
[0:34] Speaker 1: we don't want them to do and unmotivated to do
[0:37] Speaker 1: all the stuff we do want them to do. Today
[0:39] Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast, we get into the nitty
[0:41] Speaker 1: gritty of what motivation is, how it works, and how
[0:44] Speaker 1: we can help children to find the kind of motivation
[0:47] Speaker 1: that moves them, literally motivation means to move, that moves
[0:51] Speaker 1: them in the direction of action in areas that matter.
[0:55] Speaker 1: I can't wait for this conversation. It's next. Stay with us.
[1:00] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast where you
[1:02] Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's
[1:06] Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We're so grateful that you're motivated
[1:09] Speaker 1: to listen to it. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson,
[1:11] Speaker 1: parents of six kids and the author of 11 books.
[1:14] Speaker 1: Quick question for you. Today's about motivation. How motivated are
[1:17] Speaker 1: you to record this podcast?
[1:19] Speaker 2: I can't believe you're asking me that.
[1:21] Speaker 1: I'm just asking, like on a scale of one to ten.
[1:23] Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about one of our children in
[1:26] Speaker 2: particular and thinking about her motivation scale. Here's a kid
[1:32] Speaker 2: who hates getting out of bed before, I don't know,
[1:35] Speaker 2: 10 o'clock in.
[1:37] Speaker 1: The morning, maybe even 12. And we've never allowed it
[1:40] Speaker 1: with any of our other children. We're at number five now.
[1:42] Speaker 1: We're just like, stay in bed if you want. It's
[1:44] Speaker 1: easier for us to deal with.
[1:45] Speaker 2: I wasn't going to dob her in, but thanks a lot.
[1:48] Speaker 2: And she recently started having an opportunity to work with
[1:54] Speaker 2: horses at three o'clock in the morning. And We haven't
[2:00] Speaker 2: had to set an alarm. I have not had to
[2:02] Speaker 2: get out of bed to wake her, to remind her, nothing.
[2:07] Speaker 2: She's the one who's knocking on our door.
[2:08] Speaker 1: She wakes us up at 3.35 and says, time to go.
[2:14] Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is she was recently signed up
[2:18] Speaker 2: for an apprenticeship, which means that her relationship with that
[2:22] Speaker 2: position has shifted. And so all of a sudden we've
[2:25] Speaker 2: gone from a volunteer position, which she happily got up to,
[2:30] Speaker 2: And was happy to give all the time that was
[2:32] Speaker 2: needed to now her motivation is horses and money. And
[2:38] Speaker 2: so when she goes, she's like, if I'm not getting
[2:41] Speaker 2: paid for this, I don't think I want to be there.
[2:43] Speaker 1: There's an incredible quote that I stumbled upon years and
[2:47] Speaker 1: years ago from a researcher who said, who would have
[2:50] Speaker 1: thought that play could be turned into work by paying
[2:55] Speaker 1: someone to do it? That's paraphrase. It's not exactly right. Yeah.
[2:59] Speaker 1: And it was the same with my radio career. I
[3:01] Speaker 1: volunteered at radio stations and did whatever I could, wherever
[3:03] Speaker 1: I could for free for years. But once my radio
[3:06] Speaker 1: career began, I'm not going to do that unless you're
[3:08] Speaker 1: going to pay me. Like play became work because money
[3:11] Speaker 1: became involved. That intrinsic love and desire disappears. You also
[3:17] Speaker 1: quite deftly did not answer my question about how motivated
[3:20] Speaker 1: you are to record this podcast.
[3:22] Speaker 2: Were throwing shade at me because i looked like i
[3:24] Speaker 2: was unmotivated i was thinking about how i would respond
[3:29] Speaker 2: to not that question.
[3:30] Speaker 1: You're just interpreting the question is that i don't know
[3:33] Speaker 1: why you would think that i would impugn such negative
[3:36] Speaker 1: motives i love being on the podcast we have.
[3:40] Speaker 2: I love having opportunities to get paid.
[3:42] Speaker 1: To talk to you i'm so glad that you haven't
[3:46] Speaker 1: reached the point where you say are you paying me
[3:48] Speaker 1: for this conversation no i don't want to talk to
[3:50] Speaker 1: you then Thank goodness for that. Our conversation today is
[3:53] Speaker 1: not about money, but it is about motivation. And I
[3:57] Speaker 1: want to unpack this thing that psychology researchers have developed
[4:00] Speaker 1: over the last 50 to 60 years called the motivation continuum.
[4:04] Speaker 2: I love this conversation. We've had this conversation so many
[4:07] Speaker 2: times with our girls, and I see it play out
[4:09] Speaker 2: in our lives in so many ways. But where did
[4:11] Speaker 2: the idea of motivation come from in the first place?
[4:13] Speaker 1: So I mentioned in the intro that the idea of
[4:15] Speaker 1: motivation comes from, I think, I can't remember if it's
[4:17] Speaker 1: Greek or Latin, but it means to move. It's the
[4:19] Speaker 1: same with emotion and motivation. It's all about movement. And motivation,
[4:24] Speaker 1: when psychology got involved with the idea up until about
[4:27] Speaker 1: the 1970s, was always considered to be something outside of ourselves.
[4:32] Speaker 1: It was about motivating people. So you create an environment
[4:34] Speaker 1: where somebody will be motivated. And the way you motivate
[4:37] Speaker 1: them is with carrots or sticks, with rewards or punishments.
[4:40] Speaker 2: That's what we got motivational speakers from, I'm assuming.
[4:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of.
[4:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:44] Speaker 1: Like if you can provide a big enough inducement, you
[4:46] Speaker 1: can move me from A to B.
[4:48] Speaker 2: Well, I think about Tony Robbins. Right.
[4:51] Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
[4:52] Speaker 2: And he's just full of energy. It's like- He's going
[4:57] Speaker 2: to move you.
[4:58] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So essentially that idea of external
[5:01] Speaker 1: or extrinsic motivation is all there was. And There's a
[5:05] Speaker 1: special form of psychology that was all about the study
[5:08] Speaker 1: of this kind of motivation. It was called behaviorism. Behaviorism
[5:11] Speaker 1: basically argued well into the 1970s, and there are still
[5:15] Speaker 1: pure behaviorists even today, argues that you can get people
[5:18] Speaker 1: to do stuff because of the rewards that you wave
[5:21] Speaker 1: under their nose or the sticks that you brandish above
[5:24] Speaker 1: their head. I'm going to hurt you or I'm going
[5:26] Speaker 1: to reward you. Either way, get this done. A lot
[5:29] Speaker 1: of people still, if you talk to people, they're like, well,
[5:31] Speaker 1: that's how the world works. That's why I go to work.
[5:33] Speaker 1: That's what my employer does. If I don't do the work,
[5:35] Speaker 1: I don't get paid. And so they'll say, I'm doing
[5:38] Speaker 1: the work because I'm extrinsically motivated. But in the 1970s,
[5:41] Speaker 1: a couple of researchers started to talk about this thing
[5:44] Speaker 1: called intrinsic motivation. Before that, there was no such thing
[5:48] Speaker 1: as intrinsic motivation. No one talked about intrinsic motivation. It
[5:50] Speaker 1: hadn't been studied. Of course, it existed, but it hadn't
[5:53] Speaker 1: been studied. And intrinsic motivation is this idea that I'm
[5:56] Speaker 1: doing it because I want to. I'm doing it because
[5:58] Speaker 1: it's inside of me. And the behaviorist said, no, there
[6:01] Speaker 1: is nothing inside of you. You've just had all these
[6:03] Speaker 1: external factors create a thought that now makes you believe
[6:07] Speaker 1: that you're doing it because of what's inside you, but
[6:08] Speaker 1: it's actually the environment that's making you do it. So
[6:10] Speaker 1: this has been a big debate.
[6:11] Speaker 2: Well, yes, I can see.
[6:13] Speaker 1: Oh, you've been swayed.
[6:14] Speaker 2: I can see how that works, right? Our daughter doesn't
[6:18] Speaker 2: get up at three o'clock in the morning because she's
[6:20] Speaker 2: going to help people. She's getting up because there are horses. Right.
[6:24] Speaker 2: Like that's. part of the environment and she will scoop
[6:29] Speaker 2: poop and she will feed and she will get complete,
[6:33] Speaker 2: oh my gosh, when she gets into my car, put
[6:36] Speaker 2: a peg on. It's so bad. She will do all
[6:39] Speaker 2: of that, not because she loves that, but for the
[6:43] Speaker 2: chance to be in a horse's space. Right.
[6:45] Speaker 1: She loves the horses. So that's the intrinsic part. Okay.
[6:49] Speaker 1: So let's move to today because I don't want to
[6:51] Speaker 1: spend too much time on the history of it. The
[6:53] Speaker 1: motivation continuum says, well, let's complicate things a little bit,
[6:57] Speaker 1: but actually this makes so much more sense. There are
[7:00] Speaker 1: three other kinds of motivation, or four technically, but we're
[7:02] Speaker 1: only going to talk about three others, that sit in
[7:04] Speaker 1: between those two extremes. Everything's always so extreme. And when
[7:09] Speaker 1: I talk to teachers, I keep on saying to them,
[7:11] Speaker 1: we don't want to have classrooms that are built on
[7:14] Speaker 1: external motivators. Like if you turn your classroom into a
[7:16] Speaker 1: game show or into a threatening environment, if it's all
[7:19] Speaker 1: about punishments and rewards, It's going to be really hard
[7:22] Speaker 1: work for you and really hard work for the kids.
[7:23] Speaker 1: The kids aren't learning because they want to. They're learning
[7:25] Speaker 1: because they have to. And even with rewards, like rewards
[7:30] Speaker 1: don't encourage kids to do the learning. Rewards encourage kids
[7:32] Speaker 1: to get rewards. So that's the external stuff. The intrinsic stuff,
[7:37] Speaker 1: I just, I'm constantly saying to teachers, intrinsic motivation in
[7:40] Speaker 1: the classroom is too high a bar. You're not going
[7:42] Speaker 1: to find a way to get every student to be
[7:45] Speaker 1: intrinsically motivated to do calculus or algebra or to write
[7:49] Speaker 1: essays or to run the cross country. or to do
[7:51] Speaker 1: the science experiment. There will be some who just say,
[7:55] Speaker 1: I love maths so much that I would read a
[7:56] Speaker 1: maths textbook for fun on the weekend. There will be
[7:58] Speaker 1: some like that. But generally speaking, you won't find intrinsically
[8:03] Speaker 1: motivated people in a school. And it's the same at
[8:04] Speaker 1: home with the dishwasher or putting the bins out or
[8:07] Speaker 1: cleaning the room or being nice to sisters. The intrinsic
[8:09] Speaker 1: motivational bar is simply too high. So after the break,
[8:13] Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the three other forms of
[8:15] Speaker 1: motivation that matter and how we can help get stuff done,
[8:18] Speaker 1: how we can improve and change motivation levels in our
[8:22] Speaker 1: home to make our family work better and to help
[8:25] Speaker 1: our kids be happier. That's next. We're back. This is
[8:35] Speaker 1: the Happy Families podcast, Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, talking
[8:38] Speaker 1: about motivation today.
[8:39] Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever said this before on the podcast, but- Yep.
[8:43] Speaker 2: If you've got a pen and paper, take some notes
[8:45] Speaker 2: because this is really good stuff.
[8:48] Speaker 1: I appreciate the Mrs. Happy Family's endorsement. We've talked with
[8:51] Speaker 1: our kids around the dining table and the living room
[8:53] Speaker 1: and in the car about these levels of motivation again
[8:55] Speaker 1: and again and again, and they know these words. So
[8:58] Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. After external motivation, I'm
[9:00] Speaker 1: doing it because someone's making me or I'm doing it
[9:03] Speaker 1: because I'm going to get a reward. There's this thing
[9:05] Speaker 1: called introjected motivation. Introjected motivation is I'm doing it because
[9:10] Speaker 1: I'm supposed to, because I should, because I I just
[9:13] Speaker 1: feel like I must do this.
[9:15] Speaker 2: So I eat Brussels sprouts because I know I should.
[9:18] Speaker 2: They're good for me, but I don't love them.
[9:20] Speaker 1: Okay.
[9:21] Speaker 2: I don't eat Brussels sprouts.
[9:22] Speaker 1: No, I was going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or
[9:24] Speaker 1: it's I'm not eating the chocolate cake in the staff
[9:27] Speaker 1: room today because I said that I was going to
[9:28] Speaker 1: go on a diet. No one's making me abstain. I'm
[9:30] Speaker 1: making myself abstain. But it's kind of like you've become
[9:35] Speaker 1: the policeman or you've become the school teacher, the schoolmaster.
[9:37] Speaker 1: You've become– the parent of you to make this stuff happen.
[9:41] Speaker 1: You're not doing it because you know deep down that
[9:44] Speaker 1: this is a good thing to do and that it's
[9:46] Speaker 1: the right thing to do and it's what you want
[9:47] Speaker 1: to do. You're doing it because you have to. It's
[9:50] Speaker 1: kind of like- It's like an obligation. Yeah. Yeah. Duty
[9:53] Speaker 1: is the word that I would use there. And generally,
[9:56] Speaker 1: when people act out of obligation, act out of duty,
[9:58] Speaker 1: they don't do it with a smile on their face.
[9:59] Speaker 1: They not thinking, oh my goodness, my life is so full, complete,
[10:02] Speaker 1: and rich because I'm doing this thing. They're doing it
[10:05] Speaker 1: kind of.
[10:05] Speaker 2: Miserably, but- That's kind of me and chocolate right now. Right.
[10:09] Speaker 1: You're abstaining from chocolate because you just- You know you're
[10:12] Speaker 1: not supposed to eat it because you're trying to be healthy. Yeah. Okay, great.
[10:15] Speaker 1: So the next level.
[10:17] Speaker 2: It feels like you're dragging your feet.
[10:18] Speaker 1: Exactly.
[10:19] Speaker 2: It's hard work.
[10:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, through quicksand, mud, slush. The next one is the
[10:23] Speaker 1: one that I really want to focus on. After extrinsic,
[10:27] Speaker 1: we go to introjected. The next level up is called
[10:32] Speaker 1: identified motivation. And I would say that this is the
[10:35] Speaker 1: motivational workhorse. If you're dealing with an introjected child, it's
[10:40] Speaker 1: hard work. You're no longer on their back so much.
[10:42] Speaker 1: They're kind of making themselves do it, but they really
[10:44] Speaker 1: hate it.
[10:44] Speaker 2: Oh, and they'll let you know.
[10:46] Speaker 1: And they'll let you know about it, absolutely. But something
[10:49] Speaker 1: happens when kids move from introject to identified. And this
[10:54] Speaker 1: is what it is. When you identify the value of
[10:59] Speaker 1: an activity or a behavior or whatever the thing is,
[11:03] Speaker 1: you begin to internally endorse it. whatever you need to
[11:08] Speaker 1: do to get there. And so let's take your chocolate example.
[11:13] Speaker 1: If I say, I really value my health. Nothing feels
[11:18] Speaker 1: as good as feeling fit feels. Or I know that
[11:22] Speaker 1: I feel much more vital when I keep off the
[11:26] Speaker 1: processed sugary stuff. I just, I've identified that and I
[11:29] Speaker 1: value feeling vital and healthy and energized more than I
[11:34] Speaker 1: value the taste of chocolate, even though I love chocolate.
[11:37] Speaker 1: What happens is you start to endorse the idea that
[11:39] Speaker 1: abstaining from chocolate is highly valued. And because you've identified
[11:45] Speaker 1: that you value this, no one ever has to start
[11:48] Speaker 1: cracking the whip and you don't even have to crack
[11:50] Speaker 1: the whip on yourself anymore. You just go, yeah, I
[11:52] Speaker 1: just value my health more than I value the flavor
[11:55] Speaker 1: of the chocolate. Even though I like chocolate, I value
[11:56] Speaker 1: my health more. And all of a sudden you've moved
[11:59] Speaker 1: to endorsement. You've moved to this situation where you say,
[12:02] Speaker 1: my ego is not involved anymore. This isn't about duty.
[12:04] Speaker 1: This is just about improving myself and I value improving
[12:07] Speaker 1: myself done. If you can help your children to identify
[12:10] Speaker 1: the value of staying off their screen, going to bed early,
[12:13] Speaker 1: treating their sister or their brother with kindness and respect,
[12:15] Speaker 1: getting their reading done, doing their music practice, participating in
[12:20] Speaker 1: family activities and events. Once they identify the value, you
[12:24] Speaker 1: don't have to be on their case anymore. It changes
[12:26] Speaker 1: the game. There's this conversation that Alfie Cohn has. He says,
[12:30] Speaker 1: the question isn't how motivated is your child. The question is,
[12:35] Speaker 1: how is your child motivated? And if they're motivated extrinsically,
[12:39] Speaker 1: it's always going to be hard work and you're always
[12:41] Speaker 1: going to have to have surveillance on them.
[12:43] Speaker 2: Well, not only that, you're going to have to have
[12:45] Speaker 2: lots of carrots.
[12:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Lots of bribes. And it's just
[12:49] Speaker 1: painful hard work for you. If your child is motivated introjectedly,
[12:54] Speaker 1: then the surveillance can ease off a little bit, but
[12:58] Speaker 1: your child's not doing anything because it feels good. They're
[13:00] Speaker 1: doing it because they're duty bound. And yeah, that's better
[13:02] Speaker 1: than external, but It's still pretty hard yakka for them.
[13:05] Speaker 1: It takes a toll. And research shows that it literally
[13:08] Speaker 1: takes a cognitive and emotional toll on them. But once
[13:11] Speaker 1: they get to identified, they're basically going, yeah, there's value
[13:15] Speaker 1: in this. I guess I'm in. And it doesn't even
[13:19] Speaker 1: mean that they like it, but they just get that
[13:22] Speaker 1: it matters. So they're on board.
[13:24] Speaker 2: Is it possible that you could identify with the fact
[13:29] Speaker 2: that chocolate is not good for you?
[13:30] Speaker 1: Right. And.
[13:33] Speaker 2: Recognize all of the benefits and some days sit in
[13:38] Speaker 2: that place of, I just don't eat chocolate. I'm not
[13:42] Speaker 2: that person.
[13:43] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[13:44] Speaker 2: And then other days fall short.
[13:47] Speaker 1: Asking for a friend. Yeah. Motivation changes, right? You're not
[13:54] Speaker 1: constantly identified or whatever the next ones are that I'm
[13:57] Speaker 1: going to talk about. You're not constantly there. Depending on
[13:59] Speaker 1: the day, depending on how tired you are, depending on
[14:00] Speaker 1: what's just happened in terms of conflict and tension with
[14:03] Speaker 1: your loved ones or with a boss, that can impact
[14:07] Speaker 1: the way that you're motivated.
[14:08] Speaker 2: I know we're talking about me and chocolate, but I'm
[14:11] Speaker 2: asking that because I see it in our children all
[14:14] Speaker 2: the time. They identify with something, a principle or a
[14:19] Speaker 2: standard or just a way of being.
[14:21] Speaker 1: I want to get on with my sisters. I like
[14:22] Speaker 1: it when our home feels friendly and kind.
[14:25] Speaker 2: And you can see it. They understand it on all levels.
[14:29] Speaker 2: And some days they're great. And other days, it's just like,
[14:33] Speaker 2: you wouldn't know that they're the same kid.
[14:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, that they had identified the value in that. And
[14:38] Speaker 1: that's because on that day, they've forgotten what they value.
[14:41] Speaker 1: It's actually a question of values, right? And if I've
[14:43] Speaker 1: forgotten what I value because my sister has just been
[14:45] Speaker 1: snappy and snarky toward me, if I forget that I
[14:47] Speaker 1: really do value kindness, I might snap back or I
[14:51] Speaker 1: might go, oh, I'm going to do the right thing
[14:56] Speaker 1: because I'm supposed to here. And I'm duty bound to
[15:00] Speaker 1: grip my teeth and get, but there's real animosity and
[15:03] Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So We can slide up and
[15:05] Speaker 1: down the motivational continuum. This is not static.
[15:08] Speaker 2: So it's fluid.
[15:09] Speaker 1: Of course.
[15:10] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[15:10] Speaker 1: It's dynamic because life is dynamic. If I wake up really,
[15:13] Speaker 1: really tired, research shows that my hormones and my brain … Oh,
[15:19] Speaker 1: you have some of those? I do. My brain circuitry
[15:22] Speaker 1: and my neurotransmitters are going to function differently today than
[15:26] Speaker 1: they did yesterday when I got enough sleep. And therefore,
[15:29] Speaker 1: when I'm confronted with trials and challenges and chocolate …
[15:34] Speaker 1: Which is where you were about to go. It's possible
[15:36] Speaker 1: that my motivation is going to shift. The way that
[15:39] Speaker 1: I'm motivated today may be different to the way that
[15:40] Speaker 1: I was motivated yesterday.
[15:41] Speaker 2: Might be jam and cream donuts today. Anyway.
[15:44] Speaker 1: Okay. So we've got identified. Identified is the workhorse. That's
[15:47] Speaker 1: where we want to get the kids to. If they
[15:48] Speaker 1: can identify the value. We've done most of the work.
[15:51] Speaker 1: And now they will just go, okay, I get it.
[15:53] Speaker 1: And they're the key words. Yeah, I get it. I
[15:55] Speaker 1: get it. Therefore, I will. I'm not being forced to
[15:57] Speaker 1: do it. I'm not doing it out of duty. I
[15:59] Speaker 1: get it. I'm in. The next kind of motivation, and
[16:02] Speaker 1: we need to wrap this up because time is done,
[16:04] Speaker 1: is integrated motivation. Integrated motivation is when you get to
[16:07] Speaker 1: the point where you say, this is who I am.
[16:10] Speaker 1: It's part of me.
[16:13] Speaker 2: You go from riding your bike to being a bike rider.
[16:15] Speaker 1: Yes.
[16:16] Speaker 2: You go from running to being a runner.
[16:18] Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's pretty rare that I wake up and say, no,
[16:20] Speaker 1: I just don't feel like riding today. I'm a cyclist.
[16:24] Speaker 1: I love putting on my Lycra. I love looking at my-
[16:27] Speaker 1: Don't go there. Shaped legs. in the mirror and saying, oh,
[16:32] Speaker 1: I'm going to go for another ride and they're going
[16:33] Speaker 1: to look even better at the end of this. I
[16:34] Speaker 1: wish there was a camera right now. So that's integrated.
[16:39] Speaker 1: Integrated is when you do it because it's who you are.
[16:41] Speaker 1: There are still some days though, where even though it's
[16:43] Speaker 1: who you are, you might say, oh gee, this is
[16:44] Speaker 1: really hard, but I identify the value. So you slide
[16:47] Speaker 1: back to identify, but at least you're still in. It's
[16:49] Speaker 1: pretty rare that somebody who is genuinely integrated when it
[16:52] Speaker 1: comes to their motivational style or their regulation style for
[16:54] Speaker 1: a particular activity would be just doing it out of duty.
[16:58] Speaker 1: It might happen from time to time, but it's rare.
[17:00] Speaker 1: And it would be very, very rare that they would
[17:02] Speaker 1: only be doing it because of the reward they could
[17:04] Speaker 1: get for it or to avoid punishment. So the further
[17:07] Speaker 1: down that end of the motivation continuum you go, the
[17:10] Speaker 1: less likely it is that you're going to slide down
[17:12] Speaker 1: the other end. So while it is dynamic, while it's
[17:15] Speaker 1: not static, the movement isn't usually too extreme. And then
[17:19] Speaker 1: the last one is intrinsic. And intrinsic means I do
[17:22] Speaker 1: it because I love it. That's me and surfing. It's
[17:24] Speaker 1: me and spending time with you. No one has to
[17:27] Speaker 1: bribe me. I don't do it out of duty. I've
[17:29] Speaker 1: never looked at my surfboard and gone, oh, I really
[17:31] Speaker 1: should take it out in the water. I don't even
[17:34] Speaker 1: do it because I say I identify that there's value
[17:36] Speaker 1: in getting out in the water and having some nature
[17:38] Speaker 1: in my life. Or I identify there's value in me
[17:40] Speaker 1: talking to my wife right now. It's the right thing
[17:42] Speaker 1: to do. No, it's number one, who I am. It's integrated.
[17:46] Speaker 1: And number two, I love it. It's intrinsic. Like I
[17:49] Speaker 1: check the surf every day. And if the surf is on,
[17:51] Speaker 1: I'm there. I'm not going to go for a bike
[17:54] Speaker 1: ride that day because I love surfing. Surfing is my
[17:56] Speaker 1: number one. That's my joy. If I get to spend
[18:00] Speaker 1: time with you, you've got time for me, I'm there.
[18:03] Speaker 1: I can't think of anything I'd rather do than go
[18:04] Speaker 1: for a walk, grab a treat with you, one of
[18:07] Speaker 1: those jam and cream donuts that we're not eating. Go
[18:11] Speaker 1: and buy some lunch or just go for a walk
[18:13] Speaker 1: along the beach or along the path or walk around
[18:14] Speaker 1: the block with the dog because it means that I
[18:15] Speaker 1: get to be with you. That's intrinsic. And so when
[18:19] Speaker 1: we want our kids to be motivated, The name of
[18:22] Speaker 1: the game is not that we want them to be motivated,
[18:25] Speaker 1: but it's how we want them to be motivated or regulated.
[18:28] Speaker 1: And if we can get them to identify it, or
[18:30] Speaker 1: even better, integrated or profoundly intrinsically regulated, we just don't
[18:38] Speaker 1: have to crack the whip anymore. And that comes to conversations.
[18:42] Speaker 2: So if we wanted to just kind of put this
[18:43] Speaker 2: into real life terms, how this plays out. In our house,
[18:48] Speaker 2: we believe that you're part of a family and as
[18:52] Speaker 2: part of a family, you just get in and you help.
[18:55] Speaker 2: But so many families choose to pay children to do jobs.
[19:01] Speaker 2: And as soon as you add a dollar figure to
[19:05] Speaker 2: a job.
[19:06] Speaker 1: It becomes extrinsic.
[19:07] Speaker 2: It totally, it undermines the whole value of being part
[19:13] Speaker 2: of a team and just Getting in, mucking in, doing
[19:16] Speaker 2: what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
[19:18] Speaker 1: And the good feeling of doing a job well done.
[19:20] Speaker 1: So Emerson said the reward of a job well done
[19:22] Speaker 1: is to have done it.
[19:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[19:23] Speaker 1: But once you start paying somebody, once you start to
[19:26] Speaker 1: bring in external motivators, people start doing the thing. It's
[19:31] Speaker 1: like when you say, do this and you get that.
[19:33] Speaker 1: The focus is not on this. The focus is on that.
[19:36] Speaker 1: Because I want the outcome. I want the that. I
[19:38] Speaker 1: want the money. I want the trip to the park.
[19:40] Speaker 1: I want the time with my friends. I want the screen.
[19:42] Speaker 1: So the whole idea here is, We have conversations with
[19:45] Speaker 1: our kids where they start to identify that there's value
[19:48] Speaker 1: in doing this. There's value in being together. There's value
[19:50] Speaker 1: in making a contribution. There's value in helping out. And
[19:53] Speaker 1: that can be a pretty hard sell sometimes. And that's
[19:57] Speaker 1: where the three E's come in. For those of you
[19:58] Speaker 1: who have listened to the pod for a while, you
[20:00] Speaker 1: know about the three E's. Three E's of effective discipline
[20:03] Speaker 1: is what gets you to identify it. Because you say, well,
[20:05] Speaker 1: where are you up to? Oh, here's what I need.
[20:07] Speaker 1: So how are we going to work this out in
[20:08] Speaker 1: a way that we can feel good about? How can
[20:10] Speaker 1: we problem solve this so that you can see that
[20:12] Speaker 1: there is value in doing this? That's really what the
[20:14] Speaker 1: three A's of effective discipline are about.
[20:16] Speaker 2: What I love about that is it's a conversation about
[20:19] Speaker 2: bringing your children into the solution.
[20:22] Speaker 1: Precisely. We could talk about this for a lot longer.
[20:25] Speaker 1: Shameless plug, my brand new book, Boys, Building Strong Young
[20:28] Speaker 1: Men from the Inside Out, has two massive, really, really
[20:33] Speaker 1: detailed and helpful easy to understand, easy to follow chapters
[20:38] Speaker 1: about this motivation continuum. Because if we need to motivate
[20:41] Speaker 1: anyone the right way, it's our boys. That's it for today.
[20:44] Speaker 1: We're back tomorrow with more on the Happy Families podcast,
[20:46] Speaker 1: which is produced by Justin Roulon from Bridge Media. Mim
[20:49] Speaker 1: Hammonds provides our admin and other support. And if you
[20:52] Speaker 1: would like more info to make your family happier, you'll
[20:54] Speaker 1: find all of it at happyfamilies.com.au.

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